Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    One place to start would be to encourage everyone you know with a
    company/lease car to question the bill they are given, as if it was
    their pocket the money was coming out of!
    
    Also, go to the 'small' places, I was quoted over  �200 by a dealer for
    a job which the small place in the villiage charged me �90 for. I don't
    know if DEC lease cars have to go to specified places to get work done,
    but if not, why not use the small garages, it may not affect the
    immediate lease costs, but if everyone could save fleet some money by 
    shopping around, surely lease costs _should_ ( :-) ) come down!
    
    Elaine

Re .1
>>	 I don't know if DEC lease cars have to go to specified places to 
>>       get work done...

       They certainly do. Lease cars come with a little plastic 'charge'
       card from either PHH or HERTZ, and a list of garages that take them.

       I'm sure .0 is right, those garages that service lease cars charge
       well over the odds. I'm quite happy to take my leasemobile to a
       main dealer for servicing, because I don't pay the bill. But I
       certainly wouldn't take my own car there.

       I'm not sure if I'd be prepared to argue with a garage over their
       charges - after all, that's the job of the leasing company. My
       advice to anyone who owns a car is find out if the garage services
       company cars, and if it does - go somewhere else. Anyone want to
       borrow my PHH list?                                    Ian.

    
    Isn't the solution here to encourage companies like Digital to pay
    their employees a decent going rate, rather than to squander the money
    on Leasing agencies providing company cars! Surely if we were given
    the money and told to go and do our own thing WE and not the garages
    would all be doing better??
    
    Ian (who enjoys getting his hands dirty doing car mantenance when not
        glued to a goggle box screen during work hours...)

    I did once query the cost onthe piece of paper I had to sign, and I was
    treated as tho' I came from another planet and was suffering from BSE.(
    This is for a personal lease car tho, not a company car).
    
    I think that Dec/Phh/Hertz should do some investigation into the
    amounts they are being charged.
    
    Mikef (who would rather watch the world cup than mess about with cars,
    and thats BAD!!)

I worked at a garage in 1985, and they charged c. �13 + vat per hour labour.  I
seem to remember the prices being fixed by the manufacturer, viz:

It was an A-R garage.  A-R provide a list of maintenance procedures to the
garage, with estimated times for a competent mechanic to perform them, and
fixed prices for these, based on �13 per hour plus parts.  So main dealers are
tied to some extent in what they charge you by their "contract" (or whatever you
like to call it) with the manufacturer.  An independent garage has no "contract"
so is free to charge whatever he/she likes.

When comparing garage costs to (eg) accountants costs, don't forget the garage
has a lot more overheads (eg insurance, tool and equipment costs (ramps aren't
cheap!) 3 tons of Swarfega a day, etc..).

But having said that, �28 seems a bit ridiculous...

Scott

    
    
    RE: -1.
    
    	Dya- WHAT, overheads like Insurance!!!!
    
    Every BBBBB.... garage I've ever been in has a dirty big sign behind
    the service counter which reads something like : -
    
    	Customers leave their vehicles here at their own risk. No claims
        can be made due to loss or damage etc., etc...
    
    Most garages stock a large range of hammers and not much else it seems
    to me, Overheads! Pa.
    
    - Ian 
    

    
    Another point: If you have a lease vechicle you dont even see the
    bill you just pick the car up!
    
    I have had quite a run in with a few garages trying to make them
    understand that I am the customer not PHH/Hertz.  Its me who takes
    it to the garage, its me who wants to know what they have fixed.
    The smallest garages give the best service.
    
    The lease companys are really getting ripped of by the tyre people
    I have had at least two puntures that have been written off and
    not fixed.  New tyres when they werent worn to the limit.  But the
    best was I 'needed' new shocks according to one tyre exhaust place,
    but hertz required the main dealer to do it.  The garage just laughed,
    they were quite all right just rusting on the outside (after the
    paint came off).
    
    Summary WE are getting ripped off.  I will be very careful which
    tyres get replaced on my company vechicle in future.  But what they
    charge I cant control.
    
    :J
      

    I went into NTS in Aberdeen a few weeks ago after the local BMW
    dealer serviced my car and reported I needed new rear tyres - tread
    down to 2mm.
    
    When the tyres had been fitted the account was made up, but there
    were no figures mentioned.  The PHH voucher was stamped and partially
    filled in and I was asked to sign.  I indicated that I wasn't going
    to sign until unit price and total figure had been entered and was
    told that the procedure was that no amounts were filled in on the
    voucher.
    
    Being a bit suspicious, I agreed to sign the voucher, but struck
    through the unit price boxes and virtually obliterated the total
    box!!
    

Re: .6

>    	Customers leave their vehicles here at their own risk. No claims
>        can be made due to loss or damage etc., etc...
    
As per the Unfair Contract Terms Act the garage would have to prove that
the loss or damage was not due to any act or omission by their staff.

Many organizations put up signs like this that have little legal validity
simply in order to frighten the unknowledgable into not bothering to take
legal action when it would be justified.

jb

The garage I worked at had insurance which covered any car on the premises
(with obvious exceptions like someone parking there without their permission)
and any car being driven by anyone employed by the garage for any purpose (again
with probably a few special case exceptions)

    I suppose that the current expert on Garage insurance cover is
    Mark (mine's a REAL turbo) Jeffery....... ;^)

Yeah,

The garage were DEFINITELY liable in my case.

Mark.

    Re .6 & .7
    
    I have never had any trouble seeing the bill. Great Western Motors
    not only went through the bill, in detail, UNASKED, at my last service,
    but also gave me a copy for my own records. I have had the garage
    ask me to sign the voucher when I leave the car, but have accepted
    without demur when I (politely) declined. Then all you have to do
    is complete your discussions about the bill before you sign.
    
    Steve

As a follow up to .0, the �28 + VAT an hour is from the Reading Toyota
garage. They have just told me that this is their 'smaller car' rate.
I have a Vauxhall Cavelier. They also have a rate of �35/hour + VAT (!!) 
for larger cars and another rate (dunno what this is).

The main reason I entered .0 was really because I had put my car in for
some work which was not done satisfactorily and I reckoned 28+VAT an hour
was completely unreasonable for that work. I wrote to Toyota head office
pointing out what aspects of the work were not done properly and complained
about the high rates. Whilst they didn't comment about the rates, the
garage has just offered to fix all the faults free of charge and to buy
me a part at around �20 and fit that free too. I would continue to 
recommend Reading Toyota as a convenient garage, which generally
does good work, however you have been warned about their hourly rates !

	Craig.

    Re: .14:  Why on earth should it cost the Toyota garage more per hour to
    work on a large car than on a small car?  Unless of course they are
    charging temporary rental for the floor space used.  If anything, the
    work should be easier, due to there being more room to manoeuvre!
    
    Jeff.

Larger car => more expensive car => owner has more money => owner can afford to
spend more on servicing => rip-off.

I wouldn't go to the Toyota garage by DECPark; they tried to con a friend into
spending an unnecessary �100 on servicing for an MOT...

Sounds a very dodgey operation to me.

Scott

    Probably why Digital charge different rates per hour....
    
    The more 'skilled' garage personnel work on the larger cars. Its
    a sort of promotion for them... 'I used to work on mini's, but now
    I am getting on I get to work on the Cavaliers... If I continue
    to be a good lad, I might get to service a Jaguar soon'

    
    Minis, Cavaliers, Jaguar ??????????????
    
    which garage do you work for ?
    
    :-)

There was a VW/Audi/Porsche dealership over here that had a notice on the wall
showing the hourly rates for service.  Vw's were about $25, Audis were $30 and 
Porsche's were $35 (or so).  I might have the numbers off since it was 12 years
ago or so, but they had different rate for different cars.

Dave