Conference 7.286::home_work

       I can't seem to find this topc addressed anywhere, so here
       goes... 

       I'm currently planning a storage building, and have a basic question:
       Should I user plywood or waferboard for the sheathing?
       Waferboard could save me a few bucks per sheet, but in all the
       new construction I see around, they always seem to be using
       plywood.
       
       Any words of wisdom out there?
       
       /john

    
    	Waferboard is not designed to withstand constant exposure to
    moisture, when it does get wet it has a tendency to resemble a sponge.
    CDX plywood is a better bet for outdoor exposure when treated properly.
    
    Glenn

It's a tradeoff:

Waferboard is cheap, Plywood is strong.  

Take a piece of waferboard 1' x 2' and bend it.  It'll break in a second.
The plywood will hold up.  

If it's totally enclosed, either will probably outlast you and me (or at least
me) either way.  If it gets wet for any reason, the plywood will be better. 

It's probably a good idea to match quality with the rest of the shed.
If the siding is t-111 or Pine clapboards then Waferboard is probably a 
good match.  If the siding is cedar then splurge for the plywood too (and 
hit your boss up for a raise.)  :-)

--ed/

    While we're on the subject of cheaper replacements, what's the deal
    with the wood I-beam stuff in place of regular 2x8 or 2x10 joists?
    
    Some of the new homes I've looked at are using these I-beams which
    look like a 1/2" x 8" strip of plywood with 2x2s glued to the top
    and bottom.
    
    Are these better (stronger) or just another cost cutting measure
    used by some money hungry builder?
    
    -al

I have seen shed kits made of waferwood for sale at hugh m. woods here
    in Co springs. They dont seem to include any type of siding in the
    kits. I have a piece behind my garage that has been outside for
    over a year and looks fine and dosent seem to be coming apart
    like the exterior plywood next to it exposed for the same amount
    of time. I heard sometime back they used a waterproof glue to
    hold the chips together. Anyone else know if this is true?
                                                   
    I have used the waferwood in many projects and find it somewhat
    easier to work with.
    
    -j
    

    re .4
    
    I'd be willing to bet on both -- most likely cheaper for the builder,
    and 'better' at least in consistency.  A 2x10 with a big not in
    one edge makes a lousy beam (unless you really wanted a 2x6).

    re .4 & 5
    
    One of my books on construction techniques has a mention of the
    plywood and 2x3 or 4 joist technique.  Strength is very high
    for the cost, and it is a lot lighter than the equivalent solid
    joist.

    Just found out more about these wood I-beams.  They are made
    by a company called Tru-Joist.  The reason why framers prefer
    these over regular wood is that they have a lower moisture content,
    have less warp (hence truer) and are much lighter to carry.
    They are probably cheaper too.
    
    I also noticed that the houses that had them didn't have any
    bracing.  Would this be a problem or do these wood I beams solve
    the need for bracing?
    
    -al

    I'm looking into buying a new construction and noticed on the
    spec sheet that the walls are 1/2 in wafer. with vynal siding.
    Is this o.k?
    
    Tony
    

Can anyone suggest a way to seal the inside surfaces of particle board
furniture so that the odor doesn't get onto clothing stored in it?

We bought a wardrobe and a chest for our baby's room that are made
from particle board. The external odor went away very quickly but
clothing stored in them still comes out smelling like particle board.
We've tried exposing the inside surfaces to air but it made no
difference. I hope there's a way to solve this problem other than
replacing the furniture.

Barry

    How about a polyurethane? I use Carver's - the one that doesn't have
    petroleum in it (safe for the environment and it dries in 2 hours!)
    		Cindy
    

    from personal experience...
    
    Even Polyurethane does not seal and protect from the smell. 
    EVENTUALLY, and it sometimes takes years, the solvents are totally
    outgassed and the smell goes away.  Put a cedar block in each drawer to
    mask the smell.  And you learn that the next time you look for real
    wood construction.  If it were ME, based on my past experiences, and if
    I could return the furniture, I would.  I did not, when I had a chance,
    and I regret not doing so.
    
    Luck,
    Dave

Thanks for the suggestions.

> EVENTUALLY, and it sometimes takes years, the solvents are totally
>    outgassed and the smell goes away

If that's true, then wouldn't applying Polyurethane cause it to take
even longer?

> If it were ME, based on my past experiences, and if
>    I could return the furniture, I would.

Unfortunately, it's probably too late for that. It came unassembled 
and I doubt that the store would take it back now, even if I 
disassembled it.

Barry

    If it doesn't rain the rest of the weekend, it should have plenty of
    time to dry out by monday.  I wouldn't worry about the wood, but you
    definately want the insulation to be dry.  Call the contractor and
    express your concerns.  If it looks like more rain on the way, tell
    them you want the exposed area covered.
    

    Thanks!  I spoke with the contractor and he assured me that
    he would not cover wet insulation or boards and would 
    replace it if needed.  Considering they just replaced the
    studs in the wall on the first floor due to rot, I'm a bit
    cautious about this kind of thing.
    
    

    We just finished gutting the interior of one of the rooms in our 100 yr
    old Victorian.  There was no insulation in the walls (as expected), and
    we can see daylight through the sheathing.  The sheathing consists of
    the usual rough planks hung horizontally with the combination shingle
    and clapboard treatment on the exterior.  There are strong drafts coming
    through some of the larger gaps in the sheathing, and of course the issue
    of holes all the way through to the exterior.  We plan on installing
    fiberglass insulation with a single vapor barrier before we put up new
    drywall.

    How should we deal with these holes and gaps in the sheating?  I see a
    few possibilities.

	1) Ignore them, insulate with the vapor barrier facing in.
	   This could certainly result in some wet insulation, and the
	   insulation won't do as good a job.

	2) Ignore them, insulate with the vapor barrier facing out.
	   I've never actually heard of this, but it may provide a better
	   barrier to water and wind.  However moisture could build up	
	   between the drywall and the outside barrier.

	3) Install plastic sheeting on the back of the sheathing and then
	   install insulation with vapor barrier facing in.
	   Normally I expect the plastic should go between the siding and
	   the sheathing.  Again I'm worried about moisture buildup.

	4) Patch and caulk the larger gaps and install insulation with the
	   vapor barrier facing in.  I don't see a downside to this one 
	   although it may not be as effective as others.

	Any other ideas?  Which one would be preferred?

	
    Cheers,
    --Dave

	You most definitly don't want to put a vapor barrior on the
	cold side, you want it on the warm moist side (in Northern
	climates that's the living area).

	You didn't mention what you have for siding, as that's going to
	be the real factor on whether or not water is going to get inside
	the wall.  If water can get in it can cause damage to the studs,
	sheathing, etc, never mind the insulation.

	And how wide are the gaps?  You could use some of that expanding
	foam stuff to fill the voids between the sheathing ......

    yuck..
    
    I suspect the right thing to do is rip off the siding and put up Tyvek
    (and maybe some foam insulation panels) on the OUTSIDE, and then put up
    new siding.. (I'm in the middle of this on my house, but for different
    reasons).
    
    Although seeing daylight doesn't ABSOLUTELY mean water can get in, it's
    probably pretty likely.. and if that's the case, the siding has to come
    off.. 
    
    ...tom

    
    isn't placing foam panels on outside of sheathing same as installing
    a vapor barrier on outside -- which in a heating climate isn't
    recommended?

    According to _Carpentry and Construction_, if the vapor barrier on the
    inside of the wall is done correctly, foil-faced foam on the outside of
    the wall is fine.
    
    in practice, unless you tape the seams of the foam panels, the result
    is fairly vapor-permeable anyway..
    
    ...tom

You can see light through your walls, and you do have siding (clapboards,
shingles) still hung?
If so, the gaps in the siding are more a problem than the gaps 
in the sheathing.

Standard practice in a heating climate is vapor barrier inside,
wind barrier (Tyvek) outside, insulation and sheathing in between.

Siding keeps the house weathertight, not sheathing.

- tom]

    Thanks for all the suggestions.

    I agree with the person that suggested the best way to deal with this
    is to remove the exterior siding and put up Tyvek or something similar.
    However this is not going to happen.  Now that I think about it, I also
    agree that the problem is with the siding, not with the sheathing.  From
    other suggestions, I think this is what I'll do.

    The gaps through which I can feel a breeze are maybe a 1/4" wide and a
    foot or two long.  The places I can see daylight are a few small spots
    about 1/2" square, perhaps a couple are slightly larger.  I'll patch the
    worst gaps and holes from the inside with caulk, foam, etc.  This should
    keep water out, but will by no means constitute a vapor barrier.  When I
    get around to repainting the house next year, I'll fix and replace the 
    shingles that have deterioriated to create those holes.  I'm not too
    worried about water coming through the holes because there was no
    evidence of water coming through in the past several years.  Then I'll
    install the insulation properly with the vapor barrier facing in.

    Thanks,
    --Dave

    You could install Tyvek on the inside of each bay. It will act as an 
    air/water stop but not a vapor barrier. Fix the outside when you get 
    around to it.

>     I'll patch the
>     worst gaps and holes from the inside with caulk, foam, etc.  This should
>     keep water out, but will by no means constitute a vapor barrier.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	and by no means do you want a vapor barrier there!

    
    I'd stay away from the foam in a can, even used in small amounts 
    in small holes it will tend to want to expand out/in.  Although
    not likely to cause a problem due to undesired expansion in the
    outward direction -- why take the chance of the expanding foam causing 
    any additional problems.  Caulking is ok, but can shrink and if for
    some reason it gets wet before fully curing can be dissolved rather
    easily.  I'd recommend silicone instead, it works like caulking
    and has all positive benefits of caulking while not having any
    of the negative drawbacks of foam in this application.  
    
    JMHO.
    Bud
    

>     I'd stay away from the foam in a can, even used in small amounts 
>     in small holes it will tend to want to expand out/in.  Although
>     not likely to cause a problem due to undesired expansion in the
>     outward direction -- why take the chance of the expanding foam causing 
>     any additional problems.

	Please elaborate on what you see as possible "additional problems"?
	I personally have had no problem using expanding foam in a can.

>     I'd recommend silicone instead, it works like caulking
>     and has all positive benefits of caulking while not having any
>     of the negative drawbacks of foam in this application.  

	But the problem with caulking (or silicone) is that it can't
	span wide gaps, while expanding foam can.

	You mention again "negative drawbacks of foam in this application",
	but you mention what those drawbacks are!

    >You could install Tyvek on the inside of each bay. It will act as an 
    >air/water stop but not a vapor barrier. Fix the outside when you get 
    >around to it.

    Is this really a good idea?  I do plan on ripping down the walls in 
    most of the upstairs rooms.  If I do install the Tyvek inside instead of
    ripping off the siding and installing it on the outside of the sheathing,
    that would seem to be a win-win situation.   Of course there's the 
    extra thickness that I would have to handle with respect to putting the
    insulation in the same pockets.  But I have real 2x6's as opposed to 
    1.5x5.5's, so it should fit without a problem.

    Cheers,
    --Dave

    
    The problem of foam in this application is that it *could* expand 
    outward and either extrude thru the shingles or worse under the
    shingles and push them out.  I've used about 60 cans of both minimal
    expanding foam and normal expansion foam recently.  In about 1 
    application in 20 I've experience problems.  In some applications
    of the minimal expanding foam I was placing about a 1/2" - 3/4" bead of 
    foam to seal new window frames behind the front brick moulding.  This
    is less than the 1/3 fill level recommended in the instructions on 
    the can.  Still, in several windows the foam pushed/bent the casing 
    enough so that I had to saw out the foam and do it again.  It was 
    just a pain. 
    
    By the sounds of this application, the gaps aren't so large that 
    silicone can't be utilized effectively.  I've had no problems spanning
    upwards of 1" gaps easily with silicone.