Conference 7.286::home_work

    In addition, I would like to get some opinions on the pocket doors.
     I have always been intrigued by them.  They seem to give some class,
    where a regular door might get in the way.  The door slides out
    of sight when not in use, etc.
    
    Ed..
    

re .0:  I remember an article about pocket door adjustments in the
	Old-House Journal sometime in the past few years.  Public libraries 
	often have OHJ; its December issue each year includes an index.
        
re .1:	There were two double pocket doors in our house when we moved in,
        and we added four single ones when we build an addition.  They do
        indeed give an old-fashioned feeling, and save space in tight
        corners.  They're also more trouble than regular doors in many
        ways.  They're trickier and hence more expensive to frame, install,
        paint, trim, etc.  You need to reserve hollow space in a wall to
        store them - can't run any plumbing, electric, etc. through that
        space - you probably shouldn't even hang pictures on that wall, for
        fear of nailing through into the door's pocket.  Because they slide
        instead of swinging, they're less forgiving of little fingers in
        the wrong places, or of being opened or closed with excessive force.
        And, of course, they can get out of adjustment, and become
        difficult or impossible to open or close without repair.  We don't
        have locks or latches on ours, but I hear that they have problems
        staying aligned.  Similar comments might apply to weatherstripping
        (if you want a pocket door to separate heated and unheated parts of
        your house).
        
        For our house and lifestyle, pocket doors have worked out very well
        indeed.

    2 years ago I installed a pair of pocket doors to close off a 10'
    opening between our den and dining room. I used 2 28" 3*5 glass
    french doors - quite heavy.
    
    I disagree that the framing was difficult - it takes a little care when
    you use the metal clad studs supplied with the kit. The real key is
    keeping it all square. 
    
    When finishing the trim I left a piece that is removable so I can
    get in and make any adjustments.
    
    .0 askes about repairing them. First look for any removable trim
    pieces. I had problems with the fastners holding the wheels to the
    door. They came supplied with 2" #10 screws. These pulled out with
    the weight so I replaced them with 3" #10 sheetrock screws which
    have held fine since. The only other suggestion would be to put
    felt sliders at the bottoms of both sides of the trim. This helps
    to eliminate any tendancy to stick on the trim.
                             
    Lastly when adjusting the height you have to work both wheel sets
    too keep the door straight and level.
    
    David.
    

    Like .1 I remember seeing a lengthy article on maintenance of pocket
    doors in the Old House Journal.  In fact, I seem to recall that
    it was a two-part article in successive months.
    
    By all means try to find the article and copy it.  If getting it
    would be difficult, consider calling the publisher (they're in
    Brooklyn) and ask to order the issues.  The price will be reasonable
    compared to the alternatives.
    
    I think a common problem with these doors is that they get off their
    track.  Fixing them requires opening up the framing, or whatever
    it's called, and putting it back on the track.  There are other
    problems, however.
    
    I wish Old House Journal would publish a cumulative index to make
    it easier to go back through the years.
    
    Good luck.  These certainly are wonderful, elegant doors.
    
    Michael

    REPLACING OLD LOLLY COLUMS VS STEEL FISH PLATE
    
    I AM IN THE PROCESS OF REMOLIDING MY CELLAR, ADDING A COUPLE OF
    ROOMS AND BATHROOM. TO GET THE MOST SPACE OUT OF THE CELLAR I WANT
    TO REPLACE THE LOLLY COLLUMS. I WAS TOLD THAT A GOOD WAY IS TO PUT
    A STEEL PLATE KNOWN AS A [ FISH PLATE] TO BOTH SIDES OF THE BEAM
    WITH BOLTS GOING RIGHT THROUGH THE STEEL PLATES AND THE BEAM.
    
    I WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ON THIS IF THERE IS ANY, AND ALSO MOST IMPORTANT
    I AM LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO PURCHASE THESE STEEL FISH PLATES AT
    A RESONABLE PRICE. WAS TOLD APPOX. 4OO.00 FOR A PAIR.1/2"thick by
    about 4-5ft long.
    
    ANY INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED. WILL BE CROSSING THAT STAGE IN THE
    NEAR FUTURE, SAY WITHIN A COUPLE OF WEEKS....
    
    THANKS IN ADVANCE,
    
    DENIS

    4-5' long?  I'd think they would have to run the length of the beam,
    since the effect is to strengthen the beam to the point where it needs
    no support at intermediate points. Basically what you are doing is
    turning a wooden beam into an I beam for all intents and purposes.  The
    $400 sounds about right - this is not going to be cheap!
    
    At the very least, it will need to have its ends over other points of
    support (such as lally columns not being moved), which is the rule even
    for wooden laminated beams (the components of a laminated beam must
    meet directly over a lally column, not between them).  4-5' is
    certainly less than the end to end distance between a set of three
    lally columns (ie, you would be removing the middle one, and would need
    to stretch between the end ones).  Even if you made it long enough, and
    this strengthened the beam, I'm not sure it would work:  the pad
    supporting each lally column is designed to support just that
    individual lally column's portion of the load.  In the above example of
    moving from 3 to 2 columns, you would be increasing by 50% the load on
    each of the two remaining columns.  That is why I started off saying
    that it should probably run the entire length, so that the support
    comes from the foundation walls themselves (as would be the case for a
    steel I-beam.
    
    I did a lot of reading of the code on beams a while back, and never saw
    a reference to anything like this, but will try and check when I have a
    few minutes at home.  Easier solution:  just call the building
    inspector and ask him.  
    
    i

    I remember someone else describing the technique you are asking
    about.  If I remember correctly I believe the author was Mark Seger.
    He bought the plates and had the holes drilled alternating high and
    low on the plates.  I seem to remember him saying that the plates
    did not have to span the entire length of the beam but a majority
    of the beam to reduce the possiblity of sag in the middle.
    
    	----------------------------------------------------
    	 0		0		0		0
    
    		0		0		0		
    	----------------------------------------------------
    
    I looked in 1111.11 under carpentery_and_framing and 1111.6
    basements and found several notes discussing removing lalley columuns
    and refishing basements but could not find the note I am thinking
    about.
    
    I am sure Paul or the other moderators will be able to point you
    to a more specific set of notes.  
    
    Good Luck!    

    Since I have done before, when you remove a lally collum on a 8X10
    carring timber, you must use two 8" X 1/2" thick channel, 16 feet
    long, which will take you over the two remaning lally collums.
    You must use a larger plate on each lally collum, to support the
    channel at these points. Use 5/8 threaded rod every 18", making
    a sandwich with the two channels on each side of the carring timber
    These channels can be purchased at any steel fabricating business,
    they will also punch the holes for you.
    I had done it some years ago, so I do  recall the cost.
    dem

    Ops.
    I forgot to mention: This is not an easy task. My friend Jack helped
    me! 
    dem

    
    Before this is set no-write by the moderator, the only reference
    I found in the conference regarding POCKET DOORS was 2814, regarding
    repair of POCKET DOORS and it does not apply. I can find no info 
    in my usual reference materials.
    
    What I'm looking for are answers to the following:
                                         
    	                                 
    	How do I frame for pocket doors? 
    
    	Do Pocket Doors come in the equivalent of pre-hung, or
    	do the come in a framing kit as implied somewhere in 2814.n?
    
    	Has anyone seen pocket door kits at Builder's Square?
    	(perhaps you can save me a trip)                     
    
    	If not, can you suggest where I might find a kit in the 
    	Nashua area?
    
    Thanks much for any info you can give me!
    
    
    							* MAC *

    And while we are at it how about an explanation of what a pocket door
    is?
    
    			herb

OK, I'll bite.  A pocket door is one that slides into a "pocket" in the wall, 
leaving no door in sight when the door is open.  If you have an area thicker
than a normal wall thickness to put the pocket in, you can frame it using 
normal framing techniques, and then just buy sliding door tracks.  I did this 
in a basement in my parent's house.  But normally you want the door to slide 
into a normal thickness wall, and for that you really want to buy a pocket door 
kit, since for a 3�" wall (not including sheetrock) and a 1�" door, each side 
of the pocket is only about 3/4" thick.

The kit consists of the sliding door hardware (track and sliders), and a set of 
braces which form the walls on either side of the door.  You purchase the door 
separately, and you'll also need to purchase some special hardware for the 
door - usually little metal cups on the sides to slide the door, and something 
to grab onto to pull the door out of the pocket which goes on the end of the 
door.  You can get locking hardware if you want.  

The braces in the kit are made of a metal channel with a wood attachment
surface for the wallboard.  Even with the metal and the addition of casing
molding, they are fairly flimsy, but then again you don't go crashing into
walls very often.  You make the rough framing opening equal to the width of the
door opening and the pocket (the exact width is specified in the kit).  Then
you attach these braces to form the pocket before the sheetrock goes up.  It's
pretty easy to do. 

*** Important note ***  Whether you or someone else puts up the wallboard, make 
sure to use shorter than normal screws when attaching to the braces.  Otherwise 
the screw points come through and scratch the door when it slides into the 
pocket.  Can you hear the voice of experience here?  :^(

I don't know whether Builder's Square has the kits, but I would assume they do.
Anywhere than sells millwork stuff ought to have them, or be able to get them.

Paul

    Last weekend I noticed that Home Depot has the kits in the pre-hung
    door section.  In the same display they had the hardware and door
    pulls.  The kit was about $54.
    
    I bought a pocket door kit pre-assembled for $39 1 year ago from a
    local door Manufacturer.  It included a pocket, hardware, track and
    stop. The stop and track were stain grade.  They do not allow any
    returns at all, regardless of condition of materials or method of payment. 
    
    I later decided not to use a door of any kind and just have a walk
    through with trim so I cannot offer any tested hints.  I being one
    who likes to over build was going to double/triple up the studs
    on either side of the framing so that when people slammed the door,
    it would not crash through the wall.

    Here in Atlanta, Home Depot is direct competition for Builders Square
    and they run adds quoting prices from each other.
    

    I have one also. I'd suggest leaving some leeway in the contruction to
    allow for winter/summer shrinkage and expansion. Make sure you can get
    to the adjustment mechanism in some way after installation as you may
    need to adjust the door periodically. 
    
    I ran a couple of 1/8 " thick by 1 " wide strips top to bottom on the
    casing, on the side where the door fits against when closed. Sort of an
    1/8" deep pocket for the door to fit into when closed. Gives it a nice
    finished look and buys you 1/16" or so of slack on the alignment. 
                                                                      

    .4-  My head is a dense piece of wood.  I don't understand your advice.
    
    
    I put in a 2'6" pocket door last summer.  The kit cost $29 and included
    all hardware to hang a door, including an adjustment tool to raise
    and lower the door.  Don't forget the header will span above both the
    walkthru and the pocket door kit (frame).  
    
    I haven't yet bought the door to hang, but I can buy any 2'6" door
    without prep and buy the pull lever that is needed to close the
    door when in pocket.
    
    Dave

    > .4-  My head is a dense piece of wood.  I don't understand your advice.

    Mine too - I don't understand what you don't understand. 
    
    If you're talking about the adjustment, maybe our door installations
    are different. Mine has a casing/moulding installed over the header
    area - it can't be adjusted without removing the moulding from the door
    way and slipping a wrench in to adjust it. 
    
    >I can buy any 2'6" door

    Isn't a 2'6" doorway a little short for normal use ? (8-) 

    > re .3 double of triple studs ...
    
    You really can't get the door moving fast enough to do any damage.
    I don't think extra framing would be required unless you had a *very*
    wide door. 
                                                                         

    The adjustment is done after the carpeting or flooring is installed
    to allow for proper clearance on the bottom of door.  This is done
    before molding is installed. The tool has a fancy bend to allow
    adjusting the nuts on the rollers, to raise or lower the door.
    
    2'6" is the width.

    I don't have any trouble with the height. The adjustment is needed to
    make the edge of the door parallel with the casing it butts up against
    when closed. You can do this at installation but once you cover
    up the adjustment access area with finish work it becomes more of
    a challenge. 

I believe that the actual name is a flitch plate girder (probably named 
after the guy who invented it).  I've seen it in a slightly different 
configuration - two wooden beams on either side of a metal plate.

    I installed "double" pocket doors (2 doors 1 pulls from left one pulls
    one pulls from right) No big deal... But you may want to
    consider placing an old strip of carpet on the inside of the pocket
    door frame (not the door) where the inside edge (read opposite edge 
    from pull edge) contacts the framing when open. This definitely dulls
    the potential LOUD WACk you would otherwise hear when the "kids" slide
    the door back into the pocket at the speed of light. 
	
    
    			Matt

    Did you locate that OHJ article?  I'd appreciate if you posted the
    date here as I've got two double pocket doors in our 1904 Victorian.
    One pair works fine and the other are just as you described.  They
    don't close properly and the adjustment screw was as useful as teats
    on a bull.

I have used a pocket door in the addition that I have built on
my house.  While I was designing the addition, a friend turned 
me on to Fine Homebuilding magazine.  They had a timely 
article (June/July 1989  No. 54) on pocket doors.  They were 
most impressed with the kit from L. E. Johnson so I bought one 
when I ordered my doors.  I would second their recommendation.

The instructions were clear and concise.  The verticals are 
made of 1x2s jacketed in steel with holes through the jacket 
in the apporpriate places.  The rollers are fully adjustable 
and the the door can be removed after installation via levers 
that detach the door from the rollers.  I used a pretty heavy
solid colonial panel door and have had no problems. 

I bought the kit and my doors from Malden Door.

I would be willing to accept email requests for a photocopy of 
the article.

    Anyone ever replace an existing regular door with a pocket door?  One
    house we're thinking of buying might require us to do this so our
    bedroom set will fit into the master bedroom - there doesn't appear to
    be enough clearance between the bed and the existing door.

      If  you want to replace a standard, hinged door with a pocket door
      you will need to reframe the doorway plus a section of  wall  next
      to  the  door and about the same width.  This section is where the
      "pocket" goes.  Some problems you may run into:
          
          o  The  wall  may  be  structural, in which case the reframing
          would require a more sturdy header across the door and  pocket
          area.  (read "more $".)
          
          o  The wall where the pocket goes may contain wiring, pipes or
          ducts that require relocating.  (again "more $".)
          
          o  The  wall where the pocket goes may may not be thick enough
          to accommodate the pocket.  (once more, "more $".)
      
      If  this is part of a buy/no-buy decision, get a price from a good
      carpenter before you decide.
      
      Now,  about  "pocket  doors".   Some folks like 'em and some folks
      don't. I'm in the "don't like 'em" category. I find that they tend
      to  become difficult to operate -- jump off tracks, get flat spots
      on rollers, etc.  Even when they  do  work  well,  I  don't  think
      they're as nice to live with as they are to look at in magazines.

    Isn't there some other way you can arrange the furniture in the room so
    that the door is not in the way?
    
    The wall which would become the pocket would have to removed.  That
    means removing the trim, the sheetrock, and then moving any utilities
    like light switches, outlets, heating devices, etc.  I would be willing
    to bet large $ amounts that there is a light switch on the side you
    need to put the pocket. ;^)
    
    Once everthing old is removed and the moving of the utilites is 
    complete, you would frame in the pocket, put sheetrock up, mud, sand,
    mud, sand, prime, paint, reinstall trim.  Don't forget the need to pull
    up the carpet around the work area and restrech it when done.  Do you
    have any wallpaper that would have to be matched?
    
    All in all, a lot of work and mess.  I paid $37.50 five years ago for
    the pocket and the hardware.  You can use the old door as long as you
    don't mind the hole in the door where the knob used to be, or can cover
    the hole with some recessed pull.  Doors run anywhere from $30 to $200
    depending on how fancy you get.  Add in $30 for stain and finish or
    paint.  Another $50 for the paint for the walls and trim, sheetrock and
    accidently broken trim that will have to be replaced.  Will this paint
    match the exisiting paint in the hallway and the bedroom?  No.  Will 
    this encourage you to repaint the entire hallway and the entire
    bedroom?  Yes, add another $30 for paint.  I have not included the cost
    of any tools you may need to buy in order to accomplish this task.
    
    To have someone do the work would probably be a 3 to 5 day job.  With
    the way the economy is now, you can probably find someone who will make
    a deal for a small job like this if they can do it at nights or on the
    weekends.
    

�    Isn't there some other way you can arrange the furniture in the room so
�    that the door is not in the way?
    
    Not really.  Our bedroom furniture is turning out to be a good way to
    prescreen houses.  Maybe we'll just sell the stuff.
    
    Painting/wallpapering is not an issue.  In our opinion all of it needs
    to be replaced anyway.  All hardwood floors too, so carpet isn't a
    concern either.
    
    This is the largest bedroom in the house, yet it has the smallest
    closet (current owners use it as a TV room).  But, there is a huge
    walk-in closet in an adjacent bedroom.  This closet shares a wall with
    the bedroom in question.  My idea is to put a door through to that
    closet.  So, if I'm going to punch a hole in one wall to put in a
    closet door, why not go ahead and put in the pocket door in the other. 
    I'm going to have the mess of sheetrocking/plastering one wall anyway.

    Seems that retrofit is a lot of work.  How would someone design a 
    pocket door area when building a new house?  The problems I see are
    merely aesthetic - four inch threshold vs. nine(!) inch.  Any way to 
    over come this without making an entire wall that thick? I m thinking
    of trying to minimize cutouts like this:
                                  ---------
                    ==============|pocket ========= <--- door
                         wall     ---------
                                  wall
    I'm trying to do this conventionally, right? This way when I have the
    framing guys over they wont make a fuss. And all the reasons in the 
    other notes.  
    
    In addition, I'm considering double pockets for some areas - master
    bedroom/study  recreation room, etc.  Would try to incorporate it as
    part of the design.   Finally, I would like to try a hybrid pocket
    swing door.  Does such a beast exist?  It has a notch that would allow
    it to swing out of the track once extended its full length. A stop
    would allow the door to latch with a regular door cylinder.  A loft
    that could double as a guest room could have this feature.  I ve seen
    10 foot spans done with stained glass bifolds - bifolds I consider
    tacky.   This hybrid would allow the open plan but quickly provide a
    high degree of privacy without compromising aesthetics... 
    Comments?
    Frank
    

    RE: .15
    
    The wall doesn't need to be any thicker than normal.  I have a pocket
    door installed in a few places without any special walls.  When you
    draw up the plans for the new house, indicate where you will place
    pocket doors.  Any framer worth being paid will know how to frame for
    this.  Basically, the standard studs are replaced with metal framework
    for the door track.  The sheetrock is attached to this framework.  The
    only concern might be an increase in the size of the header for the
    double pocket area.  Remember that the pocket plus door requires a
    header for the both!  This means that the header must span twice the
    normal area, therefore might need to be bigger.
    
    Dan

    
    My uncle has a few pocket doors in his house, and I saw the framing
    for them before he closed in the walls. He used standard 2x4's turned
    sideways in the pocket section, and 2x12 for the header. Works good.
    Didn't use metal at all, and has good strength to it. That's the way
    I plan to do it in my house. This was a renovation, and so will mine
    be as well.
    
    Fred

    RE: .-1
    
    Using studs turned sideways is fine IF YOU HAVE ROOM!!  In most modern
    construction, the walls are only 3-1/2" thick.  Not enough room for two
    studs and a door.  In older contruction (or in 2x6 construction) you
    should be able to do this.
    
    Good luck,
    Dan

    
    Yes, I believe that wall was 2x6...
    

      From  my  experience,  2x4s,  or 2xanything for that matter, won't
      make a very rigid wall when turned sideways.  If you push or  lean
      on  it it will give noticably, possibly enough to cause the pocket
      door to bind.

   Re -.1  

	A way to eliminate the problem is to use metal (steel/aluminum) studs
with the pocket.  A bit more work when finishing, but no binding results.

Note 2986.20

      From  my  experience,  2x4s,  or 2xanything for that matter, won't
      make a very rigid wall when turned sideways.  If you push or  lean
      on  it it will give noticably, possibly enough to cause the pocket
      door to bind.

Note 2986.21 by SUBWAY::PIZZELANTI >>>

   Re -.1  

	A way to eliminate the problem is to use metal (steel/aluminum) studs
with the pocket.  A bit more work when finishing, but no binding results.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      As the author of .20 I disagree with .21.  Steel or aluminum studs
      the same nominal size as wood studs will have pretty much the same
      amount of give.  
      
      Although steel studs can be easier to work within some situations,
      especially commercial construction, and they are fire resistant, I
      don't  thing that strength is one of their selling points.  Even a
      solid steel bar 1-1/2 by 3-1/2 inches will have some give in  such
      an  application -- and would be prohibitively expensive to install
      too!

      I think there are two possible solutions:
          
          1)  Accept  the  fact  that the wall over the pocket will have
          some  give.   Do  the  installation  per  the   manufacturer's
          instructions so that (hopefully) the door won't bind.
          
          2) Build two parallel 2x4 walls with just enough space between
          them for the pocket.  This means an overall thickness of about
          10", so it can take some floorspace away.
      
      I  suspect  that most people will either live with solution # 1 or
      simply give up on pocket  doors.   I'm  generally  in  the  latter
      category, since my impression is that pocket doors are more bother
      than they're worth.  

    I put in a pocket door to our new bathroom last year.  It was part of
    an addition, and I used a pocket door kit, with the forementioned metal
    studs with wood inserts.  It worked just fine then, easy to assemble.
    It still works just fine, and I would't have it any other way.
    
    As a matter of fact, I wish I had used a pocket door in another
    location.  It sure cuts down on the wasted floor and wall space that a
    regular door requires.
    
    I used a normal solid colonial pine door.  With it's weight, there's no
    chance of it jumping off of the track.  Also, it does a fine job of
    deadening sound, much more so than a hollow core door.
    
    All in all, I'd recommend buying the kit.  My wall is solid.  That is,
    it doesn't give when pushed or banged into.   The only drawback when
    having a pocket door is the inability to run wiring within that wall.
    
    Lee

    I will second the kit.  There is a ready made pocket door kit which
    allows one to build a "normal" width wall assuming you are using 2x4
    studding.  It is has a metal framework with 1x4 wood batts running
    horizontally to allow nailing surfaces for sheetrock and strength.  
    It provides ample strength and the wall will have less give that a
    normally framed wall for that space.
    
    B

	I'm not arguing that this is a better way, just one more to mention.

	We have a new home with pocket doors between the kitchen and dining
	room. The pockets are framed with 2x3's. Only a few inches difference 
	but every little bit helps.

								Mark

    .23:
    
�                                                  The only drawback when
�    having a pocket door is the inability to run wiring within that wall.

    Could you run conduit between the studding and the sheet rock?
    (Ah, but I suppose you'd also need unusually shallow boxes, maybe
    impossibly shallow ones.)
    
    Dick

    Mac, any update for us?
    
    Lee

    Does anyone have any ideas on how to put a lock or latch on a pocket
    door? I have a 1 1/2 yr old that loves to get in his closet and pull
    everything out.

    
    How about putting a deadbolt (pin)type lock lock at the top
    of the door.  The kid cant reach it and its easy to install....
    
    JD
    

    Re .7
    
    The original pocket doors in my cousin's house, circa 1900, have a
    recessed finger that drops down to engage a recessed striker plate
    in the opposing door.  These are mounted at approximately normal
    doorknob level.  They can only be actuated from one side, apparently
    to assure privacy in the area to be closed off; probably illegal
    today.  Installation appears to be similar to a normal door knob/latch,
    requiring drilling from the closing face and from one side.
    
    PBM
    

    I have "built-in" closets in my bedrooms which have sliding doors -
    big, dark, ugly wooden ones ( IMO ! ).
    
    I've been looking for replacements, modern lightweight with mirror
    finish preferably. Have not seen any so far. Can anyone suggest where
    I should look - central Mass if possible.
    
    Thanks in anticipation
    Trevor

I find these at Home Depot, HQ and the like.  

				Steve

    I even remember seeing a TV ad last week for windowed sliders - Stanley??
    
    /Chris

    
    mmmnnn....must have had my eyes closed !  thanks, I'll check them out.
    
    Trevor

    
    I'm gearing up to put in several pocket doors in new construction.  All
    of the walls is 2x4, one is 2x6.  In looking in the Brosco catalog, they
    have two pocket door kits.  One with vertical framing members and one with
    horizontal members (3/4 wood wrapped in steel/aluminum channel).  Both
    can support the same amount of door weight - 250#.  One may be a knock
    down kit vs the other being prefab.  Any idea on why the two different
    types and which one would be best under which circumstances?
    
    I'm leaning toward using the ones with horizontal members as this
    should hopefully give the door less to hang up on as it slides in/out.
    Installed pocket doors that I'm familar with that have vertical members
    tend to snag the door edge as it travels in -- but these are old units 
    with hollow core doors so who knows.
    
    If the units are for 2x4 framing only, I'll add addition wood at cross
    directions for the 2x6 wall.  I'll add a bumper strip of carpet at the
    end of the door run as previous suggested in this string of notes.  But
    in addition I'm thinking of filling in the spaces between the framing
    members of the pocket door with rigid insulation -- or should I forgo
    that and just use 1/2 sound stop board on the outsides?  (I can't do
    that on all the doors, so maybe careful application of rigid could be
    done?)  I want them to be as quiet as possible.
    
    

I have the Johnson brand of pocket door.  Its the wrapped-wood vertical style
and I have had no problem with it banging as it was put back inside the door.

I have plastic stops mounted along the bottom to hold the door in the center of
the channel (they came with the kit).

I extended one side of the wall the door is in with 2x4"s sideways so I could
mount an electrical box on the inside of the room (I have two doors closing 
together which ment I had no place on the inside to mount the required entry
switch).

The idea of rigid insulation is an interesting one.  All my interior walls have
fiberglass in them to cut down on noise transmission, except for the pocket 
door walls.  I'm not sure if the rigid insulation would help much in that 
respect.

Brian J.

    Another idea for noise reduction...
    
    A drywall person told me that they sometimes double up the drywall
    (two 1/2" sheets in stead of 1) on the interior walls to reduce
    noise.  He said it was better than 3.5" of fiberglass insulation.
    However, if you are dealing with a door on the same wall, you'll need
    to extend the jams by a .5", to account for the added thickness of the
    wall.
    
    I suppose if you asked someone who installed insulation, they would
    have a different opinion ;-)
    
    Roger
    
      

> Another idea for noise reduction...
>     
> A drywall person told me that they sometimes double up the drywall
> (two 1/2" sheets in stead of 1) on the interior walls to reduce
> noise.  He said it was better than 3.5" of fiberglass insulation.

	FYI, doubling up drywall, and other soundproofing ideas
	can be found in the following topic ....

   361  FDCV18::CUMMINGS      4-SEP-1986    60  Soundproofing

>    A drywall person told me that they sometimes double up the drywall

Yup, my parents' 5-room ranch, built about 45 years ago, is like that. Double
drywall, plastered. Noticably less noise transmission between rooms compared
to a single drywall building.

    
    Just installed the first double set of L.E. Johnson pocket doors --
    found recommendation in old note here (.29).  They are quite
    study and were easy to install.  Along not a stocked item, the
    local lumber yard (Currier) could get them from one of thier
    regular suppliers.  I like.  

    
    Just installed the first double set of L.E. Johnson pocket doors --
    found recommendation in old note here (.29).  They are quite
    study and were easy to install.  Along not a stocked item, the
    local lumber yard (Currier) could get them from one of thier
    regular suppliers.  I like.  

Can I ask you a detail question?  I've installed many of these
in singles, but recently did my first pair (buy 2 sets, plus the
joining kit.)  I followed all the instructions for cutting rails
and wood, installed the wheel assemblies on the doors where indicated,
and put it all together.  

When I install the stops on the rails, each as far toward the center
as possible, they stop the doors before they quite meet.  Does this
sound familiar?  Either I goofed in the junction of the two units
or I mounted the rollers too close to the door edge (that's easily fixed,
at least...)

Another question - what are you planning for hardware, as in pulls, locks,
whatever?  I haven't seen anything I really like.

    
    Could be one of two things.  First it took me a while to figure out
    how to correctly connect the two door frames.  I thought it was just
    me being thick.
    
    I haven't hung the doors yet, but it sounds like the runners are set
    to close to the edge of the door.  You should be able to correct the
    problem by moving the runners back farther from the sides of the
    door. Make sure they are equi-distant from the sides to keep the door
    balanced.  (I believe the runners make contact with the stops.)
    
    I bought simply brass edge pulls, the kind you poke and they rotate
    out.  We'll have to see how I like them later.  The plan is to use
    single plane french door blanks in this first set of pockets.  They
    are between the kitchen and dining room.
    
    This probably isn't it, but what the heck just in case anyone else
    is as much of an Induhvidual as I...
    
    The instructions for a single included with the basic kit are
    clear and easy to follow.  Rough width = 2 x door + 1".  That was
    in the Brosco book and I built the rough opening 8'2" for two 2'
    doors.  In do the cutting something wasn't working out right when
    you take the end cap off and replace it with the joining h/w.  
    There were instructions on the back of the blister pak for the 
    joining h/w.  I finally found a separate block of text on the 
    blister pak telling you that for doubles the rough in was only
    2 x door.  Taking off the additional 1" solved things.  I 
    should have seen that the first 4 times I looked but didn't.
    I had to fur out the rough opening to soak up the extra 2".  
    I believe the extra 1" in singles is to allow working room
    to physically hang/remove the door blank which isn't needed
    on double sets.  

    
    Try renovators for other door pull options; but they are all basically
    the same just styling differences.  Two types seem to be either edge
    pull and/or front recessed holes.

>>When I install the stops on the rails, each as far toward the center
>>as possible, they stop the doors before they quite meet.  Does this

I installed a double set and don't have the problem you have (the meet in the
center).  The bumper stops on the tracks are mounted very close to each 
end I had more of a problem getting them not to slam together.

I don't have the installation guide here so I can't recall the details on using
the joining kit (ie cutting the wood supports or where to mount the door
supports).

>>Another question - what are you planning for hardware, as in pulls, locks,
>>whatever?  I haven't seen anything I really like.

I ordered the stuff that Johnson sells.  The edge pulls and the locking
(bathroom type lock) closing unit.  Johnson is the only place I could find 
that had the locking units.  Stanley puts out junk when it comes to pocket 
door hardware.

bjm

Well, with respect to hardware, they're all junk in my
opinion - no one I've found makes good stuff anymore.
Even the Johnson stuff has plastic, and it seems to lock
from one side only.

I've been looking for some sort of latch that could work
from either side, as compared to the basic approach of 
nothing - recessed disks in the sides for your hand to
push on, those flip-out pulls in the edges to start with
when the door is in the pocket, and nothing whatsoever to
lock or latch the two doors together.   So far the best
approach I've found would be to use an edge-mounted mortise
bolt in the edge of one door, going into the floor.  This
door would then simulate the frame of a single pocket door.
The other door would get a two-sided latch that mates with
the 'fixed' door.  To open fully you'd unlatch the door with
the latch, open it, undo the bolts from the now-exposed edge,
and roll that one back.

I'll have to check my installation for total rough-in size
and for where I placed the hangers.  I thought I followed the
instructions, and the rail assembly did fit in my opening, so
I must have done something right.  Sounds like the simplest fix
(whatever the cause) is to move the hangers back a bit, leaving
plenty of room on the edge of the rail to adjust the stops.

Looking at the doors now, ya move the hangers back should solve your problem.