Conference 7.286::home_work

I've thought about this too, I'll be putting one in next year.  I also would 
really like to have the height easily adjustable - it's good to practice with 
the hoop normal height, but it's fun every once in a while while playing a game 
to lower the hoop.  I've seen one ready-built that is adjustable - at Service 
Merchandise.  It's very easy to adjust, I have no idea how long it would last.
I've thought of making a home-built pole, with a parallelogram set up to adjust 
the height, but I haven't figured out how to secure the basket at different 
heights.

I'll be very interested in whatever discussion crops up here.

Paul

I put up a store-bought hoop/pole this summer. I mounted the pole into 
about 3' of concrete-- the maximum depth that still left enough pole 
above ground to put the hoop 10' above ground. 

The backboard mounts to a diagonally mounted retctangular beam 
fastened to the pole with a sliding bracket. The vertical pole was 
filled with cement to add stability (ha).

The rig was bought at Lechmere. They were out of the Spaulding poles 
so I bought the ????? one for $5-10 less. I don't know if the name
brand would have been better, but my backboard is not rigid. When I 
brick up a free throw, the atmospheric disturbance of the wobbling 
backboard flexes plate glass for miles around. I think the pole should 
be square and a heavier gauge steel. I have had opportunity to shake a 
few other poles in the last few months and other store-bought rigs 
also seem to have a certain amount of flex built in. 

The backboard we bought is fiberglass (particle board and weatherproof 
not really belonging in the same sentence) and one notch down from 
their top of line. It comes with hardware for bracing to prevent 
twisting. Necessary supports were not included with the backboard nor 
with the pole. Twisting is not the problem: rocketing back and forth 
is.

One son is 10 and headed more toward sports where being built solid
and low to the ground are advantages, the other son is 3, and I,
though tall, have serious white-man's-disease so we are not threats to
the rim. We did buy a breakaway rim that will give way before wrecking
the backboard in case a heavy squirrel or marauding neighbor lands on
it. Of course, since July I've lost the little plastic bag containing
the replacement pins... 

I'm happy with the rim and backboard but less satisfied with the pole.

John don't call me airborne H.

    I put up a store bought model 2 years ago.  4" found pole filled
    with concrete (for rigity) set in 3' of concrete.  The backboard
    is mounted on @3' tube attached diagonally to the pole with two
    large "u" bolts allowing for height adjustment.  It's a lot like
    your 2nd drawing in .0.    It is not as rigid as I would like. 
    I would definitely recommend a square pole and a breakaway rim.
    I've had the hoop re-welded twice in two years, both times due to
    neighborhood kids working on their 'dunk' shots about midnight.
     One good thing about the round pole is that I can turn it around
    easily to face away from the street when the snow plows come through.
     This option was most usefull when the height was set below 10'.
     (As soon as my sons could get it in at that height I moved it up
    - must be kind of frustrating when you think about it.....)  Now
    I have to add some reflective tape to the pole and make sure they
    don't hit the pole.

    How about checking out some of the hoops at a few playgrounds? 
    Although these may be more permanent than you'd like, it might be
    worth it to take a look.  Most of the baskets found in playgrounds 
    seem to have 2, 3 and sometimes 4 poles in the ground, and use the 
    heavy duty 3 or 4" iron pipe.  At least this is better than trying
    to hit a moving target.

    					Steve

    Mine is a metal bracket box like affair I bought at pennys that
    spaces the backboard about 8inches from the pole.  I did have to
    put a twisting brace on it.
    
    This is mounted on a 14' piece of 4x4 fir set about 3-4' feet in
    well-tamped sand/dirt that I took out of the hole.  I planned to
    set it in concrete once it gets to its permanent home but this has
    worked so well I may just use the dirt again.
    
    I did use a post hole digger to disturb the earth as little as possible.

    How about using 2 1/2" and 3" pipe.  As I recall the 2 1/2"
    will be a nice tight fit inside the 3".  You could have say
    6' of 3" with holes drilled for pins at "appropriate" heights.
    Then drill matching holes in the 2 1/2" section.  Slide the
    2 1/2" piece inside the 3" to the desired height, and insert
    the pins.  This would also let you easily remove the top part
    and store it inside for the winter.
    
    
    Mark
    

    RE: 0
    Sears sells one that is something like the last note.
    My parents bought it a couple of years ago, (ok, 8 years ago)when
    my brother and I (6'2" plus) were in our D Dakens stage.
    The hoop did not "break away" but it did withstand a lot of "jammin"
    by us.  Now at 6'3" and a couple of pounds heavier, (ok fourty ugh)
    I can still "jam" (once in a while) and it still stands it.
    
    The only thing different from other hoops is the pole is in 2 foot
    pieces.  This is to make it easier to shorten for smaller children
    and higher for mooses like me. 8-)
    
    I also live in Cow Hampshire and I must warn you about the removal
    during the winter.  We did it and found out the hard way.  The A**
    bleeep, bleepin snow removal duds ran over the 6 inches of pipe
    that sticks out of the ground with their plow.  Had to remove and
    repair it.  We rectified the problem with a 4 foot yellow florescent
    (sears also).  Attach it to the pole after the first snow and they'll
    think it is a waterworks pipe or something, thus using caution.
    It really worked!  As far as the debth of the hole, I asked my father
    about it and he said that it all depends on the town.  Nashua (due
    to the amount of granite shelfs and such, he was told to go no less
    than 3 foot and no farther that 4 and one half feet.  
    The board is still standing (with a couple of paint jobs) and seems
    to be as sound as ever.  I am not sure if they (sears) still stocks
    it but it wouldn't hurt to look.  Hope this helps you.
                                              @L

    I chipped in with the grandparents and bought the pole, boom,
    backboard, and basket for my son at SPAGs for around $100. You still
    have the supply the hole and the concrete. The instructions recommend a
    hole about 28" in diameter and about 3 ft deep if I remember correctly.
    It seems like I mixed concrete all day to fill that hole, plus the
    concrete needed to fill the 4" diameter pipe. Filling the pipe went
    a long way towards reducing the sway.
    
    If you want to have slam-dunk contests then stay away from the
    fiberglass backboards or go for a unit with a break-away hoop.
    
    Remember that once you locate the perfect spot and start digging
    the hole there will be an immovable rock about two foot below the
    surface. Just thought I'd warn you that it will be there, no one
    told me when I put mine in.
    
    Nick

  Re: .2

  Yeah, backboard wobble (side to side) seems to be the big problem.
  I think any solution must involve separate stays to the back sides
  of the backboard.  

  Re: .3

  Sounds like a good unit -- who manufactures it? Filling the pole with
  concrete also sounds like a good idea.  By the way, how do you fill the
  tube?  There must be an easier way than putting up the pole and pouring
  buckets of concrete in from the top. 

  Re: .4

  I did check out some playgrounds (even though they are pretty rare in
  my neighborhood).  The two types I saw were:

   - one piece of 4-inch pipe with a nice 90 degree bend in it.  It looks
     expensive, there's no adjustment and I think it would be difficult
     to fix if someone backed into it with a truck.

   - one or two supports that are made out of 3-inch pipe and shaped like 
     a "P".  The single-support units had terrible side-to-side wobble and
     were generally pretty flimsy.  The double-pole units were a lot sturdier
     but were awfully ugly.  And I'd rather not have to pour two concrete
     bases.

  A problem I noticed on playground units was that they often failed to cap
  the vertical pole.  So the pole fills up with water and splits when it
  freezes.  Sounds like we should either fill the pole with concrete or make
  sure it's properly capped.

  Re: .5

  Is the 4x4 pressure-treated?  Do you have any problems with twisting/bowing?

  Re: .6

  I think the pin adjustment is an excellent idea, though I might want to
  use heavier stock than 2 1/2 and 3 inch pipe.

  Re: .7

  My hoop will be a long way from the road but it's always good to hear new
  approaches to foiling the wily snowplow driver.  Now, you, .3, and .9 seem
  to be happy with those NBA "breakaway" rims.  (I can't dunk a basketball
  unless I use a ladder and I'd be just as happy if my opponents were at
  the same low level of ability, thank you).  How many hoopsters have had
  a problem with the old fashioned breakable kind?

  Re: .9

  I know about that rock but I'll have to chance it.  The only way to
  ensure that the rock will be right where you want to plant the pole is
  to bring a powered auger to the job.  To ensure that it will not be
  there, bring a backhoe.  I'll be using a shovel, so I'll just have to
  hope that the gods of DIY will be kind. 

  To all: many thanks -- HOME_WORK comes through again...

  JP


   

    The 4x4 is not pressure treated.  Less lifetime.  The fir is smoother
    and seems to have checked and twisted a lot less than PT 4x4s I've
    used elsewhere.
    
    No problem so far ~3 years and no problem with not being solid enough.

    Somebody makes one just like your (.0) diagram.  My neighbor bought
    one somewhere.  It is a 4" square beam sunk into the ground (concrete)
    with the requisite boom at 45 degrees.  Looks pretty sturdy.  I
    wanted to get the exact same thing for my yard but the wife nixed
    it. :-(  Doesn't meet her definition of "Yuppie Yard".  Since 
    everyone in the yuppie neighborhood has a backboard, I think I will 
    just buy a decent basketball.  It should be a lot cheaper in the end.
    {:-) ;^)
    
    Stan

    
    RE: -.1
    
    A friend of mine put up a telephone pole (yes, a REAL telephone
    pole) next to his drive way, specifically to mount his basketball 
    hoop on.  I don't know where he got it, but I wasn't free.
    

    A complete 4 piece basketball "system" very much like the "home-made"
    rig shown in .0 is currently on-sale at Spag's for 79.50.
    The 4 pieces are
    2 piece 3" pole
    4' 45degree extension arm adjustable from 6' to 10'
    Basketball net
    4'x3'x1" fiberglass backboard.
    Regular Spag's price is $106.00
    Ad is from Worcester Telegram of 13-mar-1988.
    
    I bought one last night.
    
    
    				herb

    re .14
    am feeling somewhat intimidated by the "installation" instructions
    to wit:
    minimum hole should be 28" in diameter by 24" deep approx 9 cubic
    ft.
    mix sufficient concrete and pour in upper end of tube until entire
    pole is filled, approx 1 1/2 cubic feet

    Can somebody tell me how many cubic feet there are in the "typical"
    bag of cement one buys for a coupla bucks at home improvement centers?

    Any other suggestions as to how to deal with this total of 10 1/2
    cubic feet of cement?
    
    					herb

    I believe an 80lb. bag of concrete mix makes about 0.6 cu. ft of
    concrete!  We're talking about a few blisters to mix enough to fill
    that hole.  How about a concrete truck?  Or the 4x4 in well tamped
    dirt sounds good.
    
    Bob

    I'm glad I didn't know it would take ~17 bags of cement when I bought
    it!!!
    Called one ready mix cement place in Nashua N.H. and another in
    Littleton Mass. in both cases
    
    minimum load 1 cubic yd 
    

    
        		$ 1 2 0

    
    
    

    Grrrr
    How long should I count on it taking to mix 17 or so bags by hand?
    

    
     I suspect the main reason for such a big hole to fill is weight
    and mass to offset the punishment to be doled out up above.  You
    will not need 17 bags to fill it up, use plenty of washed stones
    in the "poured" mix.

    Mmmm...
    Just called a local home improvement center.
    $3.65 for an 80lb bag. $3.65 * 18 = $65.70. 
    

Ditto on .18  Use plenty of rocks to fill up the hole.  A little concrete in 
the bottom, then throw in a bunch of rocks, cover the rocks with concrete, and 
keep going like that, you'll use about half the concrete.

Also, if you're going to be mixing that much concrete, it's MUCH cheaper to buy 
the materials separately.  A pickup-truck load of sand or gravel will cost 
about $8 (You probably need 1/2 load or less of each).  Bags of concrete powder
are about $8, you'll probably need 2 bags, you might get away with using only 
one if you use enough rocks.  Mix the concrete 1 part powder, 2 parts sand, 3
parts gravel. 

Paul

    re .18,.20 I wonder whether mixing the concrete with stones/rocks
    compromises the rigidity of the result?
    
    .2,.3 did you folks do as .18 & .20 suggest?
    
    				herb

I used rocks in mine and it's lastest for years now. As a previous note
mentioned that an 80lb back would only cover about .6 cu ft?????? Thats only
about the size of a basketball itself. I can't imagine that weighing 80 POUNDS.
Do you mean .6 cu YARDS??? 

>an 80lb back would only cover about .6 cu ft?????? Thats only
>about the size of a basketball itself. I can't imagine that weighing 80 POUNDS.

Believe it.  .6 cu ft is about 4 gallons (roughly 7 gallons/cu ft).  4 gallons 
of water would weigh a good 30 lbs, and concrete is more than twice as heavy as 
water.

Paul

    
    
    Think about it-- a bag of concrete is aprox. 6 in.X 18 in. X 30
    in.   It is  about 18 cubic feet or just about .6 cu. yards.
    After you add the water it only gets wet - not more and when it
    dries, unlike cotton it doesn't shrink.
    
    Adding stone or crushed rock will help increase the volume and will
    not appreciably weaken the mix UNLESS you go over board. Best bet
    for mixing large amounts especially with a stone mix is to rent
    a mixer or pay for ready mix delivered.

>    Think about it-- a bag of concrete is aprox. 6 in.X 18 in. X 30
>    in.   It is  about 18 cubic feet or just about .6 cu. yards.

Ummmm....  What?  6x18x30=3240 cu in.  One cubic foot is 12x12x12=1728 cu in.
That makes the bag of concrete you describe just under 2 cubic feet.

Redimix concrete bags are much smaller than that, something more like 4x12x24,
which is 1152 cu in, which is about .6 cu ft.

Paul

  With the snow gone from the yard, I had no more excuses, so I bought and
  installed a hoop this weekend.

  I chose the least flimsy commercial set I could find.  It's made by Porter
  and consists of:

 - 12' 4"x4" square tubing (in two sections) for the pole.

 - 45 degree extension arm (~3"x4" structural steel tube).  It is fastened
   to the pole with brackets on one end and is bolted to the backboard on
   the other.

 - 2 galvanized stays.  They are fastened to the pole with another bracket
   and they are bolted to the backboard.

 - backboard and rim (standard -- no breakaway action or shear pins)

  I used 12 bags of concrete mix (well, 11 and a bag of portland).  The 
  concrete base is two feet deep and two feet across (with a square 2x4
  form at the top of the hole so it looks a bit neater).  One and a half
  bags of that went to fill the pole.

  This set up is really pretty rigid -- any movement is a result of the whole
  pole shaking.  And to make it any stiffer, I think you'd really have to go
  crazy and use either 6" tubing, a telephone pole, or a pressure treated
  8x8.  In short, this works fine.

  The set cost $189 (including $20 for the heavy-duty square pole).  The
  concrete cost about $70.  That's kind of steep but that's about what I
  spent for a rowing machine a few years back -- and when you consider the
  mixing of the concrete and the few practice shots I took last night, I've
  *already* gotten more exercise out of this hoop than the rowing machine...

  JP

    We installed ours a weekend ago. (Also a Porter, without the heavy duty
    $20.00 square pole.
    Hole 2ft deep by about 3ft in diameter. Bigger than spec and bigger
    than necessary.
    There is latitude for the hole to be deeper, because there is about
    1' of pole above the "truss" holding the backboard
    
    Cost...
    $ 79.00 on sale in Spags
    $120.00 minimum charge on a truck load of cement
    $  6.00 for three additional bags of cement to 
    	a) anchor the bottom of the 2 sectional pole in a 5 gallon bucket
        in the bottom of the hole perfectly level
        b) 1 1/2 bags in the pole itself
    
    Time...
    2 hours to dig the hole. You all better count on lots more time
    than that. We have owned our house for 15 yrs, it is the easiest
    hole i have ever dug!
    1 hour to mix and anchor bottom section pole in a bucket in
    bottom of hole
    10 minutes to watch cement truck pour cement. From my point of view
    this was worth the $120.00. The idea of mixing 15-20 bags of cement
    "terrified" me, and having mixed 3, I sure am glad I didn't mixed
    the other 15 or so. On the other hand 'spose i should say that we
    have an 18 year old and a 15 year old and I was t!#>ty &*#
    when the first one was born. :-)
    1 hour to mix 1 1/2 bags of cement and "ladle" into pole
    2 hours with two people to install system level.
        
    

    
    
      Hello, I'd liked to construct a decent size basketball court in my side
    yard. Probably about 50ft by 30ft. The ground is fairly level already
    and seems to stay flat all winter. Should I have the court paved or
    could I pour a cement type slab? Has anybody ever done this? Thanks
    
    BAL

    
    A court 50'x30'x3" of cement is about 14 cu yds. At $50/yd it would
    cost $700 for the cement.  Otherwise, paving would have to be done
    by a paving company and I think they may charge more than $700.
    Would you be parking cars on this also???
    

Having recently had a garage slab poured and a driveway paved, figure that it 
will be between $2000-$3000 to get either pavement or concrete on an area that 
size.

Paul

    
    Oops, did I calculate wrong???  Paul, are the numbers you quoted
    contractor or DIY???

    Go with pavement.  It is a better surface for playing basketball.
     

>    Oops, did I calculate wrong???  Paul, are the numbers you quoted
>    contractor or DIY???

Those are contractor numbers.  Part of it is that an exposed slab (as opposed 
to a basement slab) should really be thicker than 3" to avoid cracking, and 
should be reinforced with steel mesh.  We looked into pouring our slab 
ourselves, and determined that it's one of those jobs that really isn't worth 
it, except for small jobs, or jobs which don't require a good surface.  Our 
24x30 garage slab was about $1000, we figured the concrete for it would be 
about $600, the steel mesh $100, and the tool rentals (like a power finisher,
etc) would be another $100.  Then add in the sheer grunt power necessary to
move the concrete for a slab (you need several people), and the fact that 
everyone working really needs knee-high rubber boots, and it seemed worth the 
$200 to have someone else do it.

And paving is certainly not a DIY job.

Paul

    
    If you intend to use this court a lot, I would advise against concrete.
    Your knees and your shins will hate you for it.
    

    
    RE: .6
    
    Gee, last time I hit pavement it seemed pretty hard to me too! ;-)
    I'd think a good pair of sneaks is pretty important in helping the
    knee and shin problem.
    
    I guess if the author of .0 wants to DIY then concrete is the only
    alternative.  Putting up the forms and compacting the gravel below
    could be done by a non-professional.  If it's only going to be used
    outside for basketball I would think a DIY'er could get reasonable
    results with having a concrete truck and a couple of friends.
    
    3" isn't enough for a slab for basketball???  Even with reinforcement?
    Why not?
    

    
    
      Jeez, lots of replies so fast, you folks must be sitting at those
    keyboards with fingers extended.
    
      Yes, I like to do it myself if possible. Thats why I mentioned
    using concrete. I figured I could frame out the area. Lay the wire
    mesh (sears fence). Then have a cement truck pour a 3 to 4 inch slab.
    I put in several freeze lines, with my freeze line putter inner. I
    then would pray that winter didn't heave it all over creation. I have
    alot of land, so if this does happen I'll try pavement next time. If
    this project is cost effective I may even go for a full blown tennis
    court. With the money tennis players are raking in, I'll teach my boys
    golf and tennis.
    
    BAL

Ignore all my previous correspondence.  Of course you don't need more than 3" 
for a basketball court - what was I thinking of?  You park cars in a garage, 
and I hope no one who is going to play there will weigh that much.  I would 
however make the slab more like 6" around the edges - that's where it's most 
likely to heave.  And you don't really need a smooth garage-floor finish 
either.  A simple screeded finish would be fine and would give better sneaker 
traction.  Although you might want to power-trowel it anyway to reduce the skin 
abrasion in the case of the inevitable spills.

Don't forget to give it a bit of a crown so the water won't puddle.

Paul

One thing that you may not have thought of - one of the enemies of cracking are
not necessarily things like cars but the concrete itself!  That sucker will 
weigh a lot more than even a couple of cars.

-mark

> one of the enemies of cracking are
> not necessarily things like cars but the concrete itself!  

Too true.  What you DON'T want to do is grade the area, and then immediately 
pour the concrete over it without letting it compact.  When it settles later it 
will almost certainly crack.  We graded our garage floor and compacted it as 
well as we could, but luckily didn't pour the floor immediately.  After a
winter of compacting naturally, there were places that had sunk almost a foot. 

Of course we had just backfilled around the garage foundation, so I'm talking
about a couple of feet of dirt; you'll probably have much less.  But if 3 feet
of fresh dirt can compact by almost a foot, then 1 foot of fresh dirt can
compact by 4 inches, which is more than enough to crack the slab.  Even an
amount less than an inch of compaction over a large area could crack it.  One of
those rental compactors won't do a good enough job, unless you spread out about
2" at a time in the areas you want to build up, compact it, spread out another
2", etc. 

If your area is basically level already, then if you want the court this summer 
you're probably best off just pouring over the ground as it is, and letting the 
concrete cover the disparities.  Of course this will cost a lot of extra 
concrete if the area has significant irregularities, and you'd have to build 
the crown out of concrete, which would also be expensive, so you may not be
able to do that.  But if you have to grade the area, and you're not going to 
give it at least a couple of months to settle, then be sure to compact it well.

Paul

    This may not be appropriate for this note, but what about other
    surfaces, like those found on tennis courts? Is that DIY material?
    What I'd like to do it build a tennis court, and just install
    a couple of hoops at each end. (course you'd have to jump over
    that darn net after each basket!) :-)
    
    John

    
    While we're on the subject of b-ball courts,  and since I'm planning
    on putting a hoop up within the next month or so,  what's the best
    type of pole to use?  Are the 2 or 3 piece poles that you see in
    all the sporting goods stores the way to go?  They don't seem like
    they would be too solid.  I would like to go with a 1 piece pole.
    Any suggestions on what to use, where to get something like this,
    or any other alternatives.
    I don't really want to use a telephone pole.  
    
    ron

    My concern with a single pole would involve how much "overhang"
    the hoop had from the pole.  If the backboard is right up against
    a pole, your momentum on a drive would probably carry you into the
    pole.  

    
    
    I bought the basic 3 piece pole set from Rich's for $48.00 
    (I think). The directions tell you to put it in a 2'X 2' hole
    and fill with cement. After puting it in that size hole seems
    alittle extreme, also you fill the bottom section of the pole
    with cement after it has set in the hole. I hope I never back
    my car into it ! It is very solid, the only weak point was where
    the top pole connected with the bottom pole, so I poured another
    2 feet of cement into the top pole. Another plus with this set
    up is that it is adjustable if you have smaller kids.
    
    Randy
    

     The guy that lives behind my sister teaches tennis, and he has
    a home made court.  He started with stone dust, carefully raked
    and compacted.  He waters it like a lawn, several times a week,
    and it is packed HARD.  He also in tha past couple years has started
    to put a red clay dust down, he just spreads it with a fertilizer
    spreader, and wets it with one of those fan sprinklers.  
      His kids 17-20, have a b-ball net on one end, and it gets a lot
    of use and the surface appears to be holding up very well.
    
    Steve

    How would I go about using Stone Dust in making a Basketball court?
    I can't afford to have it paved.  Do I mix the Stone Dust with the
    dirt?  Any idea of the cost?
    
    Thanks in advance - Paul

    See note 3138.  Maybe the two of you could work out some sort of
    deal.  :-)
    
       Gary

    I have a small paved driveway that is about 10' wide and 25' long
    surrounded with grasses in all 4-sides. I would like to put up a
    basketball pole at the end of the driveway. I would like to extend
    the width to about 20' to 22' on one side. The ground ( existing
    driveway & grasses ) is quite level. I have the following questions :
    
    1. I most likely will hire professional to do the paving. I also will
       have them re-surface the existing driveway. How much the whole job
       may cost ?
    
    2. Is there anything I can do to reduce the cost ? Such as prepare the
       grass area before paving, etc.  How much that may reduce ?
    
    3. Should I put up the pole before the paving or after the paving ?
    
    What is the best time to do it ? now ( cool/warm ), summer ( hot ) ?
    

I have heard that there is a person or firm called Mr. Hoop who will
come to your house and install a hoop for you.

I need some replacement parts for mine and can't get them anywhere, so
I'm going to see if Mr. Hoop has access to parts, if I can find him.

Any help?

Thanks,
Pete

    I believe MVP Sports in Chelmsford has an ad for Mr. Hoops by their
    basketball equipment display. You might give then a call.
    
    -Bruce