Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    
    Does anyone know where I can get 1/16" thick pieces of solid OAK.
    
    
    Thanx Mike

I think I've seen oak like that in some hobby shops - but I don't remember when 
or where.  If you don't mind it thinner than 1/16", you can get oak veneer, 
which you can buy at a number of different place - one of which is the 
Woodworker's Store, on Mass Ave in Somerville.

Also try asking in 4394::tools (KP7, etc)

Paul

    
    
    	.1 is a good lead. I build RC planes and my hobby shop carrys
    what your looking for. In Fitchburg Mass called McMannis Hobby.
    
    	-Steve-
    

    Call New England Hardwood in Littleton, Mass. You can call the order
    in or you can go there and select the wood you want. They will plain
    it to any size you want.

    Isn't 1/16" thick solid oak the same as veneer by definition?
    Veneer is just sliced wood.  Usually it's glued to something so
    it will be thick enough to build furniture out of.
    
    Anyway, I've seen the stuff around.  The companies that 'reface
    kitchen cabinets' glue it to the existing cabinets to make them
    look like solid oak.
    
    

re:.3

New England Hardwood Supply deals in solid woods, but I don't think they'll 
plane a piece to 1/16" thick.  Besides, you'd be paying for a 1" thick board, 
15/16 of which would wind up as shavings.

>    Isn't 1/16" thick solid oak the same as veneer by definition?

Yup.  But most of the stuff that is sold as 'veneer' is much thinner - often
1/64".  It's enough to provide the oak surface, but it is very flexible.  I 
don't know what .0's application is, so I didn't know if he just wanted the oak 
surface, or if he wanted the stiffness of 1/16".

Paul

    	    Most oak veneer I have seen has been 1/28".  

    
    I am looking for Oak Veneer. I was told it came in 1/16" sizes.
    I guess I was wrong. Ok where can I ge Oak Veneer??? I live in NH
    but will travel.
    
    Mike

    I have received oak veneer (red, white, quartersawn, flat sliced,
    etc.) by mail from Constantine's in the Bronx, and another place
    (the Woodworker's something or other). If you want the addresses
    post another reply (they're at home).

    New England Hardwood supply will sell 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4 rough
    hardwoods.  They are in Littleton Mass, just off Taylor St.
    Phone number is 617-486-8683.
    
    - Mark

    
    I bought a 24 foot 4x8 rough cut beam at Parlee sawmill in Littleton
    and it was only 25 dollars.

>        I bought a 24 foot 4x8 rough cut beam at Parlee sawmill in Littleton
>    and it was only 25 dollars.
    
    Hardwood?
    

    Palmer-Parker (Or is it Parker-Palmer) in Tewksbury will have what
    you want.
    

    If you are in the boonies, let your fingers do the walking through
    the yellow pages to sawmills.  This may be green lumber and need
    drying or it may be air dried, depends on when it was cut.  Now all 
    you need to buy is a kiln to dry it with {:-).

    Colorado woodworkers supply is well stocked with all types of hardwood.
    Another I use alot is Ace wood products they seem to be the best
    stocked just about everything you could think of S2S & S4S.
    Ace does its own milling so it is possible to have the wood custom
    planed to 2 quater ect. They also stock 8/4 in all the woods they
    carry.
    
    
    -j
    

    If you're in the South Shore area try Downes and Reader on Rte.27
    in Stoughton.  They have just about anything that you could want,
    and, if they don't they will order it for you. Their prices are
    fairly reasonable, too.

    
    Go w/ the sawmills, unless you don't object to paying $2/BF for
    oak.  I've gotten green, 1D oak for $.45/BF.  A 4/4 takes only
    6 months to air dry.  Parlee deals almost exclusively in pine.
    
    Curtis Lumber - Hubbardston, MA   928-4288
    Thompson      - Hopkinton, RI     401-377-2837
    Riley Bros.   - Milford, NH
    
    Call the Forestry Service for a complete list.  There are about
    100 sawmills in MA.
    
    -Chris

As Dave Barry so aptly described it, we novice DIYers approach lumberyards with
a mixture of awe and trepidation.  I'm about to shop for deck materials, and I
wondered if I could get some advice on buying wood and general business
protocol at lumber yards. 

Never having bought a large quantity of wood before, I don't know the first
thing about shopping for lumber.  I'd like to hear the most basic info:

-Tips on ways to save money/ avoid waste when buying lumber?

-Can you get volume ('contractor') discounts when buying a lot of stuff?

-Do most lumberyards deliver?  For free?

-Can you pick out your own wood, or do you have to take what they deliver?

-If you can pick out your own, what should you look for in a board?

-When I'm making up my materials list, should I figure it in board feet,
linear feet, or what?  (How's it sold, in other words.)

Any other tips/suggestions welcomed.

    See DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS.

>    -Tips on ways to save money/ avoid waste when buying lumber?

    PT lumber is almost always on sale.  I would gather up all the
    sales circulars you get for 2 weeks, and pick the place with the
    lowest price.  I'd bet the place with the lowest sale price will
    beat a "contractors discount" off a non-sale price.  One way to
    avoid waste is to buy a little less than you'll think you need,
    then when you use it up you'll have a good idea of exactly how
    much more you'll need.
    
>    -Can you get volume ('contractor') discounts when buying a lot of stuff?
	Most lumberyards will claim that they'll give you a contractors
    discount.  That's fine, but compare it to other places sales prices.
    A 5% contractors discount doesn't hold up against a 10-20% off sale.
    
>    -Do most lumberyards deliver?  For free?
	Yes. Most do, but not all.  Somerville, Maki, Webber, will.
    Channel won't and they usually have a good sale on PT lumber.
    
>    -Can you pick out your own wood, or do you have to take what they deliver?

    If you go pick up the wood, you can pick out what you want.  If
    you have it delivered, I don't know if you can go pick out and
    set aside the pieces you want them to deliver.  I haven't done that.
    Maybe you can.
    
>    -If you can pick out your own, what should you look for in a board?

    It will be obvious what to look for.  You can tell right away if
    a pile has already been picked over pretty well.  You don't want
    someone else's rejects.  Try to get them to open a new pallet for
    you to choose from.  Or open it yourself, if it looks like the open
    stock has already been picked over.  Remember that PT wood comes
    in wet and kiln dried.  Dried wood won't warp as much as wet does
    as it dries.  But you pay more for dried.
    
>    -When I'm making up my materials list, should I figure it in board feet,
>linear feet, or what?  (How's it sold, in other words.)

    It's sold in linear ft. (1"x6"x12', 2"x8"x16', etc.)
    

    In general, if you design your deck in multiples of 2' you will
    probably have the least waste since lumber comes in standard lengths
    of 8', 10, '12', 14', and 16'.  HOWEVER, in your design process,
    don't forget to take into account the thicknesses of boards when
    you figure out the final dimensions!  It's really annoying to have
    a piece of plywood be 1.5" too narrow because you forgot to allow
    for the thickness of a 2x8 or something.  Don't kill yourself with
    worrying about the last scrap of wood - it's just not worth it to 
    be too particular.  It WOULD be better to aim for a deck 7'10" wide 
    though, rather than 8'1", for example....
    
    Contractor's discounts: in general, your idea of "a lot" and a
    lumberyard's idea of "a lot" aren't very similar.  The wood for
    a deck is probably not going to be seen as "a lot", although it
    wouldn't hurt to ask if they will give you a package price on the
    whole amount.  I wouldn't count on it though.  I've found that
    a lumberyard is more likely to be generous if they see you buying
    a significant amount of stuff more or less regularly over an 
    extended period of time.
    
    A good lumberyard will almost certainly deliver a deck's worth of
    lumber for free, assuming you're within what would be considered
    their normal sales area.  Just about guaranteed.
    
    How to buy the lumber: Although the lumber is sold by the board 
    foot, you want specific dimensions, so ask for the size length 
    of joists, decking, etc. that you need.
    
    I notice you're DECwest so procedures may be a little different
    than here on the east coast, but that's my best guess based on
    east coast experience.  And don't be afraid to ask the guy at the
    counter in the lumberyard; although a deck's worth of lumber may
    not get you a contractor's discount, it ought to at least entitle
    you to a few minutes of his time to help you out.  And (one of
    my pet crusades): go to a GOOD lumberyard, not a "home center."
    Their prices may not quite match the local bargain builder outlet,
    but the quality will most likely be better and you'll get better
    service.

    One thing to be careful of when comparing prices is to make sure
    you're comparing the same grade.  #1 grade is more expensive than
    #2 because it's higher quality.  Around here, Channel and Grossman's
    sell #2 stuff while Sommerville Lumber, Wickes, Brewster's sell
    #1.  If you're going to put the work into a deck, I would spend
    a little more and use #1 grade.  It looks better and  it's structurally
    stronger.
                                                        
    Bob

    	If you don't have an extremely large project try to figure the
    lengths of lumber into your material estimates. If you are going
    to need non-standard lengths of wood ( ie. 5,6,7,9,11 ft) then try 
    combining several lengths of wood into one. Take a 5' + 7' and
    buy a 12', since your price is "per linear foot" it makes no
    difference and you won't be stuck with 3' and 1' scraps if you
    bought two 8' boards. Keep a record of your figures so that you
    won't be confused when it comes time to cut the lumber.
    
    Glenn

    Just be careful, as has already been stated. I bought 6 pieces of
    PT 5/4 decking from grossman's for trim on aa sandbox. I paid for
    it and then went out into the yard and started the selection process.
    Would you believe that I did not find one piece as "acceptable"
    !?
    I had to get my money back! Do yerself a favor and check the supplier's
    stock for overall quality before the transaction. No. 1 is the way
    to go.
    
    Mike

    Check the sale ads before AND after you buy. Invariably, the stuff
    will go on sale a week after you buy it. A "reputable" dealer will
    offer price protection, but it's up to the consumer to speak up.

In shopping for deck lumber, I've discovered there are basically three grades
of treated wood available.  Regular pressure-treated lumber, the greenish
stuff with holes in it, is the "lowest" grade, probably best for framing.

For the decking itself, I can use either "standard or better" grade lumber, or
"select" grade.  My question: in terms of appearance, strength, and durability,
what's the difference between standard and select? 

The price difference between (and even within) grades is pretty obvious. I
found 2x6 Osmose Sunwood (standard or better grade) varied from $0.48/foot to
$0.58/foot.  In my deck, that adds up to a $100 difference in 2x6 alone. (I
plan to use 2x6 for the decking and joists, along with 4x6 beams and some 2x4
and 2x2 for benches and railings.) 

I was quoted $0.56 /foot for "Outdoor Wood" which is made by Wolman, I believe.
This stuff is "select" grade.

Would the Wolman stuff be noticably better than the Sunwood for use in decking?

-Brian

    
    	What is this big attraction everyone has with 2x6 decking?
    Personally I think it's overkill and a waste of good money. The
    only time you really need 2x? is if your joists are greater than
    16 inches on center. Go with the 5/4 x ? decking it is usually 
    all select grade (ie the best you can get for SYP) and is about
    the same price as #2 2x6. The other advantage is you don't have
    the additional weight in the deck itself allowing you some what
    more for furniture and people.
    
    		My 3� worth...
    
    ...Dave Who_used_5/4_by_4_decking_with_out_a_NOT_in_it_for_his_deck
    
    

RE .< Note 2262.10 by LDP::BURKHART >
    
Dave, I think 2x decking looks clunky, too, but I wasn't aware that Osmose
or Wolman made a 5/4 x 6 product.  Do they?

Also, on my question in .9, can I expect a lot of knots in #2 grade Sunwood?

Brian

>    Dave, I think 2x decking looks clunky, too, but I wasn't aware that Osmose
>or Wolman made a 5/4 x 6 product.  Do they?

    Yes.  At least Wolman.  I wish I had used it instead of 5/4 x 4.
    

RE. < Note 2262.12 by VIDEO::FINGERHUT >

>    Yes.  At least Wolman.  I wish I had used it instead of 5/4 x 4.
 

Why??   

>    >    Yes.  At least Wolman.  I wish I had used it instead of 5/4 x 4.
 
>Why??   

    My deck is 600 sq ft.  
    - It took forever to lay that much decking
    - It would have been cheaper if I used 5/4 x 6.
    
    I didn't realize 5/4 x 6 existed until I had begun laying the decking.
    
    

    
                                       
    RE: Last
    	
    	I had just the opposite problem. My local lumber yard only had
    5/4 x 6 and I wanted 5/4 x 4. The only place I could find it was
    summerville lumber and even then pickings were thin. I wanted
    the 4 inch because I used a harringbone design and wanted the design
    to really stand out. Also 4 inch wide tend to cup and bow less.
    
    	But no doubt about it 4 inch is a lot more work than 6 inch.
    And more expensive too. Unless you need a specific desing which
    calls for the 4 inch (ie some intricate pattern) go with the 6 inch.
                               
    
    		My free� worth...
    
    			...Dave

    You may actually find 2x6 cheaper than 5/4x6 because it's produced
    in much larger quantity.

    you can mix it up.  i've seen decks that have a couple of 
    5/4 x 6's, followed by one 5/4 x 4, followed by a couple 
    more 5/4 x 6's...
    
    
    what do you experts think of this - i recently replaced the
    flooring on my deck with 5/4 x 6.  i didn't know there was
    any difference between wet and dried pressure treated, and 
    they sold me wet.  i asked what the optimum gap was and the
    guy told me to put them right up against each other, but just
    to nail one side.  he told me to let it sit in the sun for
    a few weeks, during which time the decking would shrink, the
    gap would appear, and i could nail the other side.
    
    this guy seemed to know what he was talking about, it seemed
    to make sense, so i tried it.  it worked!  after 3 weekes i
    had a nice even 1/8" gap, so i nailed down the other side.
    
    one final thing - somebody mentioned cupping.  a deck shouldn't
    cup if it is done right.  you should put each piece of wood down
    so that if you look at the end the rings of the tree are like an
    arch (ends pointing down, peak at the top).  it tends to not
    collect as much water this way, and if it should 'cup' it will
    do so upside down so your feet won't catch on the edge.  the
    guy that sold me the lumber told me this also, but i've heard
    it before.
    
    i hope all this makes sense.
    
    good luck,
    
    bs

	I am considering buying redwood to build a swingset/playhouse
	for the kids.  I have convinced myself that it will not splinter
	as would PT, and I hope to salvage some resale value.  My question
	is about the source of the redwood:  is it new growth (as my
	dealer assures me), or is it from the magnificient old growths
	on the West Coast.  Believing as I do that the tree grows very
	slowly, the former is hard to believe.

	I will contact the Sierra Club tomorrow, but I'd like to hear
	opinions from these parts too.

	Let's avoid the discussion of PT safety, PT versus redwood, etc,
	as these are discussed elsewhere, and I've RTFN.

	Tarpley

    In a news-type program on TV back about a month or so about the redwood
    situation. they interviewed one of the owners of an outfit that was
    cutting down the old growth redwoods. His comment was that he wouldn't
    be doing it if people weren't buying it. He said that the demand is
    such that he didn't care if they had to cut the old growth and he
    didn't care if it  didn't grow back. I was really surprised to hear him
    admit that in front of a tv camera. 

    DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS may also have information for you.
    
    Dick

    
    I check around real quick and didn't find a topic about this.
    WHere can I buy 1 to 1 1/2 inch finished wood, either
    hard or pine? I want to biuld a little wind mill for my
    flower garden...
    
    REK

        Hi Rick,
        
        Face glue  some  1"  finished  (3/4"+3/4"=1.5"), clamp well and
        you're all set.
        
        Andy
        

    
    Bingham Lumber on Rt. 13 in Brookline N.H. has 5/4" pine ...
    
    

    re .0	
    
    Why do you believe redwoods grow very slowly? I can't remember any
    statistics, but when I was amazed at some of the statistics one of the
    national park rangers was throwing out in Redwood national park when I
    was out there visiting. The number of board feet of lumber put on each
    year by one of those giant trees was just phenominal! Granted, it may
    have to be evaluated as a percentage of the size of the tree to begin
    with, but I was left with the impression that they were rather fast
    growing. 
    
    I will check to see if I have anything at home from that trip that
    talks about rate of growth for those trees.
    
    Bill
    

    
    	There is a saw mill in Bolton Ma.  (ZINK).  all rough cut we lumber
    and plenty of pigs running around...
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Looking for those long wooden stakes.
    
    They're about 4' long, fairly rough cut, about 1" to 1.5" square.
    Lots of malls, office buildings, etc, use them to mark parking lots
    and walkways for winter plowing; also seen at local road work sites and
    other constructions sites.
    
    Any idea where they might be available in the Nashua or Fitchburg
    areas?
    

    You're looking for Grade Stakes.  Most lumber yards carry them.  I've
    bought them at Reed's Ferry Lumber in Merrimack.  I'd bet Home Depot
    or Sommerville Lumber also carry them.

    Parlee Lumber and Box Co. in Littleton, MA carrys oak stakes in a variety
    of lengths.  I bought some 36" but I think they had them in longer
    lengths.
    
    							John

    
    Does anybody know where I can get some rough cut lumber? I'm pricing
    materials for a shed. I live in central Mass (Shrewsbury). 
    
    Steve

    
      RE: .0
    
           Try Garner Brothers Sawmill in Hopkinton a try. 
      Unfortunately they don't have a phone at the mill so you've
      got to either stop by during the day or call them at home 
      during the evening. His rough sawn pine is in the $0.32 - $0.38
      per board foot range, depending on length and width. They'll
      run it through the planer and put an edge on it (shiplap or
      tongue and groove) for a bit more.
    
           I don't have phone #s handy but I can give you directions.
      From Westboro center take 135 towards Hopkinton. In about 2 miles
      you'll hit the Hopkinton line. Take the first left (North St.)
      after you pass under the Mass Pike. Follow North St. to the end
      (about 1/4 mile) and take a right on to ??? St. The mill is about
      a 1/4 mile up on the left. Ask for Carl and tell him I sent you
      over. Be prepared, this is not some high-tech wood factory but
      rather a down-home working mill in a clearing in the woods. Good
      people!
    
          I'll see if I can find the price list with the phone #s and 
      post here.
    
    
    
                                                        Steve

Try Parlee Lumber in Littleton.  They're right beside the northbound off 
ramp at exit 30 on I-495.  You can't get lost trying to find them, that's 
for sure.

You may want to give Paul Lindgren a call at Lindgren Lumber in Holden.  It's a
little closer for you.  You could probably look in the yellow pages under Lumber
Mills.  Any mill would have something you could use.

There's a high home-center-to-sawmill ratio in the Lumber listings in the 
yellow pages.  You might do better looking under Sawmills.

    Anyone ever visit this place Lumber LIQUIDATORS In Quincy
    I have seen their ad in the Want_ads and their prices seem
    to be very low.  ie stockade fence 6x8 $12 a section, PT 4x4 12'
    $10   Prehung steel exterior doors $69-109 etc they are only 
    open Fri sat Sun  
    
    		Dean

I like to understand a bit more about moisture content:

Is there any apprecable difference between purchasing
western red cedar at 19% moisture content locally, and then
storing for a few weeks near the site of use... as
opposed to purchasing it at a claimed 12% or 15% content
and having it shipped, and then storing it for a few
weeks near the use site?

Wouldn't the moisture content prior to use be the same (thinking
of the reasoning to acclimate the lumber prior to use)?

Does moisture rise or fall in 19% lumber stored in the lumberyards'
unheated shed?