Conference 7.286::home_work

      He wants you to make him an offer on the house sight unseen? 
    Either he is a fool for asking you or he thinks you are a fool.
    There's got to be a reason he doesn't want you to see it beforehand
    and tenants are no excuse!  If you did go that route, you definitely
    would want to use a lawyer before even signing a letter of intent.
    Also, you would want to make sure that the tenents are out of there
    before closing so you can move in.  I'm really not a pessimist but
    it certainly sounds to me like he's hiding something.  You may also
    try to find out if he has already tried unsucessfully to evict them.
    I don't know where you are but from what I hear, it is almost
    impossible to get someone evicted in Mass.  This may in fact be
    a very good deal, I have no idea from what you've said so far.  You
    only said 'Someone...".  Is this someone a friend, acquaintance,
    someone you just met, etc.?
    
    -Jim
    

    He wants an offer from you without you seeing the property?  No
    problem.  Offer him $10.  $5 now, $5 after it's inspected.  If he's
    stupid enough to think you'd make a sight unseen offer, maybe he's
    stupid enough to take a stupid offer.
    
    Beware!  It is not completely unheard of for people to try selling
    property which they are renting.  This won't be picked up until
    well after they may have disappeared with several thousands of dollero.

    This is in Culver City, California.  A real estate agent in another
    town says the owner is the friend of his associate at the real
    estate office.  The exterior of the house can be viewed but not
    the inside.  The asking price is $50,000-$60,000 below other
    houses for sale in the area.  The lot is larger than normal.
    
    A couple of other real estate agents have told be that making
    an offer first is standard practice when there are tenants
    because owners do not want to show their house needlessly.
    
    What puzzles me is that if he shows me the house before I make
    an offer, the tenants will be disturbed once, and I then may or
    may not purchase the house.  On the other hand, if I make an
    offer first with the stipulation that it is subject to inspection,
    then the tenants will be disturbed once, and I then may or may not
    buy the house.  So in either case the tenants are disturbed one
    time and it may not be the last time they are disturbed.
    
    The other agents said that my own personal (not professional)
    inspection would be done prior to the opening of escrow and thus
    if I didn't like the house for any reason I would get all my
    earnest money back, so I will be assuming no risk.
    
    I don't know...is this all too weird-sounding?
    
    

    >>The asking price is $50,000-$60,000 below other houses for sale
    >>in the area.
    
      Are the tenants carpenter ants and termites?  :^)  
    
    -Jim
    

    Just sounds like too much B*llSh** to be believable.  Tell them you
    wouldn't be wasting your time and theirs if you weren't interested.
    There's trouble here if you look hard enough for it.  Where I'm from,
    offers are made on property AFTER its seen.  California is part of the
    U.S. isn't it???
    
    Anybody else make an offer on property sight unseen?

    If the owner was a friend of yours, I might believe it -- but when
    you say that REAL ESTATE AGENTS are mixed up in this thing
    
    		NO WAY, JOSE!
    
    IF this place is really 50k$ below market, do you think that this
    Realator would try to sell it to you?  He'ld buy it himself.
    
    In my view, realtors are way down there, just below carpenter ants
    and above lawyers. 
    
    

    Try TALLIS::REAL_ESTATE (hit KP7 to add it to your file).

    As much as I distrust realtors, if one (preferably more) says it's OK,
    especially in your area, then it's probably OK - just shell out $50 or
    so and bring a general contractor/building inspection guy with you.

    Jon Reckard

    
    In Mass. it is NOT unusual that the seller of multi-family to request
    the real estate agent not to show some units of the multi-family
    house because some tenants don't want to be interrupted. However,
    in most case this may happened on 1 apartment in a 2-family house.
    But you should at lease have a chance to see all the remaining units.
    After you've seen the remaining units, if you don't like the house,
    there is no need to see " that last unit ". But if you still interest,
    the real estate agent should prepare the " Offer To Purchase " to
    include a " subject to buyer viewing the unit " clause. If the terms
    are acceptable to the seller, the agent should show you the unit
    after both parties sign the offer to purchase. This way, the agent can
    show the seller + the tenant that the buyer has good intend to buy the
    house and at the same time to minimize the showing on that particular
    unit. This clause also give you a way out after viewing that unit.
    You SHOULD have this done BEFORE you sign the Purchase And Sale
    Agreement with thousands of dollars as deposite, and before you spent 
    hundred's of dollars to hire inspector to inspect the house. This
    also apply to single family. The key point is NOT to spend any money
    ( except the normal $500 to bin the offer which is refundable ) before 
    you have a chance to see the whole house.
     

    I recently bought a house in northern California... I would be *VERY*
    cautious about giving someone a thousand or so on a house you
    havn't seen!  Maybe the tenants are complaining about being
    disturbed... however, I was a renter in a place where the owner
    wanted to sell badly, and he had no qualms at all about showing
    it!!  So, it would seem that the owner is not all that anxious to
    sell.  That doesn't fit with a place being-what- 20-30% below
    market... I would guess that there are either (or both) _VERY_
    uncooperative tenants (which you might inherit if they refuse to
    be evicted), or something in the house that they *don't* want
    you to see.
    
    If you can afford having the money tied up for awhile, then make
    *sure* that you have an iron-clad escape clause or three, and
    go for it!  Whatever you do, it is worth every penny to hire a
    GOOD building inspector, and to accompany him on his inspection...
    you learn a LOT!  Even if you don't end up buying that house,
    those guys inspect things that I wouldn't have even thought of!
    Then, you can negotiate knowing both the good and bad.
    
    Good luck,
    Kevin

    I was a tenant for a while in a condo for sale and I can very well
    understand why they do not won't to be disturbed.  The agents used
    our place as a model for the others for sale and it was not usual
    to have 10 to 15 showing in a day.  They also called day & night.
    
    I would bid with the must see stipulation.  this way they know you
    are not a looker only.

Seem to me you're getting a lot of conflicting advice in these replies.
I have purchased a couple of muli-family dwelings and looked at meny
more (and always with the intention of purchasing them).  Tennants will
always ask you embarasing questions (if your going to raise the rent,
fix this or that and express a general dislike for their buildings owner).
Now, if you go and tell them your purchasing the building for your
own home and they will have to move, you've just made someones tennant
very unhappy!

A lot of real estate brokers have a technique that with every prospective
buyer they will parade them arround to every home in there price range.
It's unlikely that you will make an offer on the first house you see
so they will show you a couple of houses that have been on the market 
forever, (you know the type real dumps, overpriced, needing major repair,)
then show you some decient homes. A buyer is more likely to make an offer
on the first decient home using this technique then otherwise.

In this state (Ma.) there are laws regarding what proceedures an owner
must follow before he may disturb a tenant. The simple case would be for 
"inspection of the premise" this requires a 24 hour notice, the owner calls
the tennant to schedule an appointment, call his broker and tell them 
when you may come, the sellers broker calls the buyers broker and forwards 
the message, finally you get the message.  Now, if you can't make at that 
time then we go around the loop until you can both agree on a time and date. 
On a multi-family home it's even more complicated.  If the owner has done 
this a couple of times I'm sure he'll say never again.  (oh, by the way 
when you finally get everything worked out someone has to re-schedule 
because "something came up")

What the owner is trying is avoid a long stream of people walking through
the house disturbing the tennants. (Most of  which are first time buyers 
who are not going to make an offer no matter what the price of the house is 
or its condition.)

Meny people walking through a tennants appartment may prompt the tennant 
to move-out, before it's sold. Now the owner is stuck, probibly for several
months lost rent, he can't rent the appartment out on a building that's 
being sold. (What if he can't sell the building for 6 months? He's lost
several thousand dollars in rent)

This is the way business is done on income property! I've owned a 3 family
for over a  year which I've never still haven't seen one of the appartments.

Just one other note, rental properties are generally not in the same 
condition as "owner occupied" properties. Tenants do not care for an
apartment as they would there own house. When repairs or upgrades are done 
they are done in the mose cost efficient manner (usually not the way you'd
do your own home). Meny small things remain un-repaired.

I think when you finally look at the inside of the house you'll find that
it is worth the asking price and no more. Nobody gives anything away in
real estate.

    I've seen real estate listings of new homes that say:
    
    	"Built by Master Craftsman"
    
    Is this just marketing hype, a not very modest builder, or
    is there some real system to being able to claim this title?
    
    -al

    I've also been asked by real estate agents to make an offer before
    I would be allowed to see the inside of the house.  A technique
    I used was to go to the house by myself and talked with the tenant.
    He ended up showing me his apartment and told me about the other
    tenants.
    I would go ahead and make an offer but be sure you have the correct 
    wording in your escape clause.  An offer "subject to viewing" could be 
    interpreted as binding after "you have viewed it."  The whole
    arrangement is a joke since the only reasonable way of having any sort 
    of binding contract would be to include clauses that put monetary 
    values on the maximum needed repairs, improvements or whatever.  
    Otherwise, the offer is meaningless since the wording will either
    allow the seller or the buyer to back out.