Conference 7.286::home_work

    Those are pretty small holes, especially to cut them in glass.
    
    
    Cutting holes in a piece of glass is VERY difficult.  It turns out
    that glass has lots of inward forces all over it.  Trying to cut
    a hole in glass  is tough because all these inward forces are pressing
    against the hole that you want to cut.    I know of many glass shops
    that will not even try because of the waste involved in breaking
    lots of glass. 
    
    
    Maybe there's a way to get some kind of hole saw?
    
    
    -bill

    J R Glass in Leominster will do it. They have an hourly rate, a
    minimum, and (I believe) will pick up the cost for 'ill-attempts'
    (broken glass).
    
    M

    Thanks - - could you post the address or whereabouts of
    J R Glass in Leominster?
    
    __Rich
    
    I'll post the query in the TOOLS notesfile, as well.

J&R GLASS SERVICE, INC
Owned and operated by the Bessette Bros.
860 Water St.
Fitchburg, MA 01420
617/345-0177

North on Rte 12, from Rte 2
Open Sat 8am - 1pm

    Typically you don't cut a hole in glass you drill or etch. 
    
    Etching can be hazardous since it uses a dilute solution of hydochloric
    acid so it is definitely not advised for an amature to try that
    method. 
    
    Drilling requires a diamond grit bit and lots of water to help keep
    the glass cool and keep chip from flying around. Your work surface
    must be absolutely flat and smooth and clean. A uneven work surface
    --willll-- cause broken glass. a dirty or pitted surface can get you
    scratches and or broken glass. Your glass must be held in place
    so that it will not move or bounce and your drill must approach
    at precisely 90deg with no bounce or chatter. Once you have the
    pilot hole in the glass you can grind the hole to size with a diamond
    or carbide grinder, again keeping the glass stable.
    
    I have a stained glass business part time so I speak from experience
    and a lot of wasted glass and cut fingers. My most often used tool
    is a band-aid.
    

    re -1
    
    Not hydrochloric acid but hydrofluoric (sp?) acid.
    
    Mr. Chemical
    
    Gerry
    

    I have two questions:
    
    1)  How does one remove scratches from thick glass?  (it's
        in a door.)    I hate them and there are a lot.
    
    2)  How does one remove porcelain from an electric burner from 
        a teapot that boiled dry?
                      
         (I know that one throws the teapot away!!)
    
    Thanks, Terry
    

    
       I need to drill a quarter inch hole in a GLASS aquarium. 
    Does anyone have any experience with drilling glass? If so 
    where did you fine the drill bit and do you have any hints so
    I do not shatter the glass with pressure.
    
    
    					thanks very much
    						MWR
    

    I am considering enclosing my bathtub/shower area in "glass brick".
    Is there anybody out there that has had any experience working with
    glass bricks, or glass blocks...that can share information with
    the rest of us?  I have never worked with them, and wonder what
    I am getting myself into.
                 
    Thanks ahead of time....
    
    Jeremy, @ CTC
                

    I've never work with them but saw a segment on "This Old House",
    where they build a wall with glass bricks.  The tips they gave were:
    
     1.	You must use very damp mortar, for unlike real brick glass is
        not porous to absorb the mortar.
    
     2. They use wooden spacer to get the line plumb.
    
     3. You can only build three or four rows(depending on length) a
        a day.
    
     4. Good Luck
    

    
    sorry re. to item 1. Damp means very dry.
    

    An article in Fine Homebuilding somewhere within the last 12 issues
    or so (sorry) relates just about everything about building with
    glass bricks. It included suppliers. I'll look for it, unless someone
    else can come up with the reference.
    
      mitch

    Thanks, I appreciate the info.
    
    Jeremy

    Fine Homebuilding February/March, 1987.
    
    The main source of glass blocks is:
    
        Pittsburgh-Corning Corp.
        800 Presque Isle Dr.
        Pittsburgh, PA 15239
    
      mitch

    Thanks Mitch...
    
    	I will contact them, before I attempt anything.  I'm sure they
    are just full of information.  I'll post logical/important stuff
    here when I get the chance, if anybody would be interested.
    
    Jeremy

    
    
    I have a marble base that is 27" x 15" and a glass top that
    is 72" x 42".  The glass top sits ontop of the marble base,
    however it is not secured by anything.  I am using this for
    a dining room table, my question is what is the best way to
    secure the glass top to the marble base that will be attractive?
    
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Tony Grise
    

I've never heard of securing glass to a table.  I always thought their weight
held them down.  What I have seen are little rubber washers, usually placed
right over the supports which prevent any lateral movement.  My guess would be
to contact a hardware or furniture store.

-mark

    The washers Mark refers to are usually clear plastic disks provided
    to prevent lateral movement.  You can get then at any glass dealer.
    They can be placed at intervals around the perimeter are are not
    very visible when installed.
    

    We bought something on a similar idea.  It used metal bars countersunk
    into the marble and the weight of the glass to hold it in place.
    
    		___________________
    	       /                   \
    	      /    \           /    \
    	     /      \         /      \<----- Table top-.
    	    /        \-------/supports\		       V
    	   /         |\base /|         \   =============================
    	   \         |/     \|         /	[____|       |____]
    	    \        /-------\        /		     |       |  ^
    	     \      /         \      /		     |       |  |
    	      \    /           \    /		     |       |	Support
   	       \                   / 		     |       |
    		-------------------		     |_______|<-- Base
    
    The supports were one piece that crossed in the center of the base.
    The supports had a clear rubber thingy near each end to prevent
    the glass from slipping.
    
    Does this help?
    
    Stan       (this terminal is a graphics powerhouse!)

    
    
    	Thanks for the responses.  I'm going to try the plastic disks
    	first.   If that doesn't work I'm going to try the metal bar
    	approach.  There are grooves in the base, so I think if I have
    	to go the bar route, it won't be difficult.
    
    	I picked this table up at Building 19, it's a solid marble base
    	and beveled glass top, for $200.00.  What a bargin!
    
    	Tony

    Sounds like a deal, Tony!  My only concern would be balance.
    I would be afraid that the 15" width dimension would not be 
    stable enough for daily use.  I think it would tip too easily 
    if someone leaned out at the edge on the side of the table.
    Could be dangerous for the little ones.  A piece of glass 
    that size is heavy and painful if displaced by little acrobats.
    
    Stan

Well, my windows are in, and it looks like the contractor left a few
hairline scratches behind....

any recommendations for removing scratches from glass?

Someone mentioned to me a product called "210" - meant for plastic but
good on glass..

thanx	/j

    An auto mechanic type once suggested toothpaste to remove minor
    scratches from windshields.  I never  tried it, however.
    

    I used to work in a glass and mirror shop and we used Jeweler's
    Rouge (sp?) powder to get small hairline scratches out. This is
    available at jewelry stores. I must tell you however that nothing
    will get out deep scratches or scores in glass. Even for shallow
    hairline scratches we had to use an electric buffer with the powder.
    
    Bob

    My father is considering adding a sun room to his house.  He has
    talked to several companies and I want to find out if anybody has
    heard of some of these, whether or not they are reputable.  We wouldn't
    want them to start the job and leave half way through and never
    come back.
    
    I have three names:
    
    	1.  Four Seasons Greenhouse
    	2.  Brady and Sun
    	3.  Mass Glass
    
    A question I have is: Is a heat mirror a useful
    thing or not.  One of the above companies said it is while another
    said it is not.  A heat mirror I think is just a type of glass ceiling
    for the sun room and it supposedly reflects away heat in the summer,
    because the sun is more directly overhead in the summer.
    
    Thanks.
    
    -Sanjeev
    
    
    

    
    
      I have a 10'x 16' Four Seasons greenhouse attached to my house
    and we love it. The heat mirror is worth the extra money in the
    roof panels only in my opinion. I put the thing up myself with
    help from two friends in two weekends. But it took us three weekends
    to figure out the plans. The guy who wrote the plans must have
    been the same guy who wrote the KL10 Ebox manual, nothing was right.
    I have straight edge model and the plans were for a curved edge
    model. It has to go together this way, no this way, no this way...
    But once we figured it out the frame went up in one day and it took
    three days to put in all the glass. 
    
      I have a friend who has a friend who is having a Four Seasons
    put on now and is having no end of problems in getting the contractor
    to finish the job. I'll try and get the name of the dealer for you
    if you want. I bought mine in N.H. from the Four Seasons dealer
    in Amhearst on Rte 101a. 
    
    
      -mike
    

    
    The WGBH (Channel 2, public TV) has their auction this week; one
    of the "high ticket" items is a sun room from Brady & Sun.  I
    don't know anything about the company, but the room they are 
    offering is worth $12.3K and high bid (as of last night) was
    only $7K.  It can be traded up for something of higher value -
    (you add the extra $).  Deal is you set up the foundation and
    put in the finish floor.  Might be worth a look if he can decide
    by the end of the week on a contractor.  (I don't know which
    night it's going to be sold)
    
    db

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title.  Please look at these notes; you may find that your
question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question would
be an appropriate continuation of the discussion.  These topics were found
using the keyword directory (note 1111), and you may find other notes relating
to this subject by examining the directory yourself. 

If for any reason, after examining these notes, you wish to continue the 
discussion here, send me mail and this note will be un-writelocked immediately 
and without question.

Paul [Moderator]

Myself, I wouldn't consider a sunroom with a glass roof, even if it was
mirrored.  In the winter, when you want the heat, virtually none comes in on a
horizontal surface anyway (or even sloping, unless it's VERY sloped), it all
comes in on the south-facing vertical surface, because the sun's low.  In the
summer, when you don't want the heat, it's all pounding down on a horizontal
surface, because the sun's high in the sky  (also on east or west facing
vertical surfaces in the morning and evening).  I've read about people who put
in sloped glass (not just an addition, a 16'x40' glass surface), and two years
later ripped it out and replaced it with vertical because it got up to 150� in
the summer.  We have 16'x28' of vertical glass with a 4' roof overhang on the 
south side of our house.  It gets toasty warm in there in the winter, and it 
doesn't overheat in the summer.

A glass roof NEVER serves a useful purpose.  It lets in no heat in the winter 
(and it lets lots OUT), and it gains tons of heat in the summer.

Paul

From:	RGB::SEILER       "Larry Seiler"  8-JUN-1988 10:59
To:	CADSE::GUPTA,SEILER
Subj:	Your note 2376.0 in HOME_WORK


    A heat mirror I think is just a type of glass ceiling
    for the sun room and it supposedly reflects away heat in the summer,
    because the sun is more directly overhead in the summer.
    
That's not what heat mirror glass is.

Ordinary glass is opaque to infra-red radiation.  If your eyes were able
to see in the infrared spectrum, the glass would look black.

This does not mean that the glass stops heat from passing through.  
Quite the contrary.  The glass absorbs most of the heat radiation that
strikes it, heats up, and radiates heat outward on both sides.  It also
loses heat by convection (warming the air, which then rises).

Heat mirror glass reflects infrared radiation.  So if you could see in
the infrared spectrum, heat mirror glass would look like a mirror.

Heat mirror glass is great for obtaining solar gain.  Sunlight shines
through the window, gets absorbed by objects in the room and heats them
up.  They then radiate heat, which is reflected by the heat mirror back
into the room, instead of being absorbed and radiated back outside.

So a heat mirror will indeed reflect away infrared from the sun, but it
will also trap heat radiation within the room.  That's great in winter,
but bad in summer.  I think the sun's radiation is mostly in the visible
wavelengths (a tautology, right?) so I suspect the heat trapping property
of heat mirror glass will cause more heat gain than you avoid by reflecting
direct infra-red from the sun.  In any case, it has nothing to do with
sun angle.  Sun angle works the other way - more sun comes through a
roof during the summer than during the winter, because of the reduced angle.
To block summer sun you want to have shades, or strategically placed trees, 
or something like that.


	Enjoy,
	Larry
    
    
    
PS - If you move your request to another note, could you please enter this
as a reply?  Thanks.

>  A glass roof NEVER serves a useful purpose.  It lets in no heat in the
>  winter (and it lets lots OUT), and it gains tons of heat in the summer. 

That's probably one of those things that's true when you're thinking of 
a specific application, but not necessarily true in the general case.  I 
like glass 'cause it lets me look out and it lets more light in. That's 
why people buy skylights, yes?  Since there's no more tax credit, I can 
afford to come out of the closet and say that I don't care about solar 
mass or heat augmentation.  I just like a sunny place to read.

					>>>==>PStJTT

>I like glass 'cause it lets me look out and it lets more light in. That's 
>why people buy skylights, yes?  

I thought of that when I read back the note I had just written.  Of course the 
glass is useful for the light, particularly if the only place you could put the
sunroom was somewhere where it wasn't so sunny - like the north side of the
house or something.  My only point was, yes, I like a sunny room (come see my
house!), but I like the temperature under 100+� degrees too, and that's
something you have to consider if the sunroom going to be exposed to direct
sun. 

Paul

    
    rep. 8
    
      My greenhouse faces due south and yes it gets hot <100+> in the
     summer if I don't use my sunshades. But with the shades closed,
     the slider and windows open, and exhaust fan going it never gets above
     85. I agreee with you that unshaded sunspaces get hot in the direct
     sun but if you are prepared the problem is easily handled. It also
     gets 100+ on those clear days in February and I can tell you it's nice
     sitting in a warm greehouse looking at all that snow in mid winter.
    
      So I suffer through the summer months but the warmth in rest of
     the of year more than makes up for suffering. 
    
    
      -mike
    
    

>     It also
>     gets 100+ on those clear days in February and I can tell you it's nice
>     sitting in a warm greehouse looking at all that snow in mid winter.

So does my solarium, and it not only has no overhead glass, it has a 4-foot 
roof overhang.  On those clear days in February, esentially none of that heat is
coming through the overhead glass, it's all coming through the south-facing
glass, because the sun's low in the sky. 

My solarium is only slightly hotter than ambient temperature in the summer, 
with no shades, open doors or fans.  The sun just can't get in directly and
heat it up. 

The point of all this being that unless you're planning on putting the sunroom 
in a shaded spot, or unless you REALLY like the more open feeling of a glass 
roof, horizontal glass is more loss than gain.

Paul

 rep.  ALIEN::WEISS "Trade freedom for security-lose both"  
                               -< One more time >-


>>     It also
>>     gets 100+ on those clear days in February and I can tell you it's nice
>>     sitting in a warm greehouse looking at all that snow in mid winter.

>So does my solarium, and it not only has no overhead glass, it has a 4-foot 
>roof overhang.  On those clear days in February, esentially none of that heat
>coming through the overhead glass, it's all coming through the south-facing
>glass, because the sun's low in the sky. 

  I would agree with you in most cases this is true if the sunspace/solarium/
greenhouse is installed on a level lot with no obstructions like hills or
tall evergreens. In my case my house is at the bottom of a hill and most of
the solar gain comes through the roof and not the vertical walls. I love people
who make sweeping remarks when all of details aren't known. Yes I understand
the concept you are taking about and the raising and falling angle of the sun
during the year. Your solarium sounds well designed for your lot and what you
wanted out of it. I did a alternatives and feasibilty study before I decided
on what to build on my lot and one of the alternatives was a design similar
to yours but it never fit my solar gain goals. The biggest reason was it didn't
present enough glass surface because of the hill and the low angle of the sun
in late winter. I did a detailed study of the position of the sun over my lot
for the 7 months prior to the construction of the greenhouse and used it to 
help me make my final decision. 

  My point of all this is that you have to look at all the local conditions and
your design goals before you can make any decision. You can't make sweeping
statements that fit all cases. It has to be looked at on a case by case basis.


 -mike

.11

>  I would agree with you in most cases this is true if the sunspace/solarium/
>greenhouse is installed on a level lot with no obstructions like hills or
>tall evergreens. In my case my house is at the bottom of a hill and most of
>the solar gain comes through the roof and not the vertical walls. 

.10

>The point of all this being that unless you're planning on putting the sunroom 
>in a shaded spot, ... horizontal glass is more loss than gain.


These two statements are in perfect agreement.  I don't want to get into a big
pissing contest here trading insults.  The only reason I put this note in in
the first place was that an awful lot of people buy the 'sunrooms' with the
glass roofs (looks neat!) *without* really knowing what they're buying, put it
in the sunniest place on the house (typically the south side), and then are
surprised at how beastly hot it gets in the summer, and have to buy extra
things like window shades that they hadn't planned on.  What I THINK I said in
.10 is that in the vast majority of cases, horizontal glass doesn't make any
sense.  In February in New England, the maximum angle of the sun in the sky is
maybe 45�.  The transmittance of glass drops dramatically past about 30�, and
is somewhere under 50% at 45�.  If the glass is sloped to the south, this gets
much better, but is rarely better than vertical glass (considering that the sun
is BELOW 45� for most of the day. 

You've researched your case and discovered that for you (in your 'shady spot),
the horizontal (sloped?) glass is a win.  Great.  All I wanted to say was the 
for most people it's not, and not to get it unless you research it thoroughly.

Paul

    Can anyone that has purchased one of these types of
    Solar additions (kits?) post the approximate PRICE that
    the materials cost? I would like to ball-park a 12X16 room.
    
    Mark

    
     My 10'x 16' Four Seasons cost $5k for the kit and it cost me about
    $2.5k for the concrete/backhoe. That was 1984 btw. I'm in the process
    of having a new house built and I'm looking at greenhouse houses
    again. The current prices for the Four Seasons kits in the 10'x
    16' size are in the range of $7k and the 12'x 16' are in the range
    of $8.5k.
    
    
      -mike
    

    I have removed "deep" scratches in a car windshield using 3 micron
    diamond paste on a block of wood. The wood holds the diamond grit
    and you do a figure 8 pattern over the area affected. It works!!!!

>>  < Note 2336.3 by USADEC::CHERNICK >

>>        -< "Deep scratches" >-

I did NOT scratch your windshield!  8-)

Bob Deep

I want to "frost" a window.  I don't think the ventilation is good
enough for me to use hydrofluoric acid.  The spray stuff is pretty messy 
for indoor use and it is too cold to use that outside.

Does anyone know of a source of translucent contact paper?

Any other suggestions?

    Check into stenciles, as some are quite delicately designed.
  Don't mean large, just made with verv  *fine* holes / lines cut
    into 'em. Good looking, too.  

    I think I remember reading, years ago, about mixing up a saturate
    solution of epsom salts and putting that on glass.  When it dries,
    the crystals "frost" the glass.  I expect this idea wouldn't be
    very durable, especially if you got condensation, and it would
    probaby be hard to get a uniform appearance.  But it's a thought.

K-Mart had Con-Tact Brand Frosted Privacy Screen called Frosty.
Christmas shopping isn't always a total waste of time.
Now to install it.

    I believe that you can frost glass using a sand blaster.  Your patterns
    would have to be fairly durable and thin.  I do not know what type
    of blasting material you would need but I'm sure that there are
    people who read this file that would know.  You may also be able
    to go and borrow the use of a blaster at a body shop or metal working
    shop.  You may also be able to rent at a reasonable price.
    Additionally, if all goes well you may be able to justify the purchase
    of a compressor and blasting outfit.  This process is bound to be
    considerably safer than hydroflouric.  I have seen an article
    somewhere, maybe in the Smithsonian, where very delicate works of
    glass art were created using the sandblasting technique.
                                                            

    Ask at glass places. I bought a spray can of stuff which makes a
    frosted appearence. It scrapes clean with a razor. But have good
    ventilation when spraying as it contains Xylene which is poisonous.
    I do not know if it is even still available over the counter.
    
    Good luck.
    ERIC

    Per .4 reply, once glass is sand-blasted, it's frosted forever.
      A good way to "frost" beer mugs, shower doors, (even with a
    pattern)! and anything else you wish to "frost".

    I have no idea of it's chemical composition, but I've seen tubes
    of a cream which is used to etch glass, and it seems likely that
    it would frost glass if spread evenly over the area rather than
    stencilled on.  (Might be the aforementioned and to-be-avoided
    hydroflouric.) The stuff is often available in the artsy-craftsy
    shops that sell other glass-craft stuff.
    
    Sherry

    
    The can left behind by the previous owners of my house is Liquid
    Glass Frosting made by Pactra (Los Angeles, CA).  The can looks
    a bit old so I don't know if this stuff is still made by this company.
    A craft store may carry it.
    
    Description from the back of the can and directions follow:
    
    Pactra Glass Frosting gives a lovely soft ground glass effect on
    glass or plastics.  Obscures vision, yet allows light to enter.
    Decorative and useful on bathroom windows, lamps and shades, skylights,
    glass partitions, transoms, aquariums, mirrors, table tops,
    greenhouses, porch lights; bottles, tumblers, bulbs, etc.  Allows
    glass to take pencil or crayon marks for tracing and art work. 
    For home, office, store or factory.  Easy to use.  Fast drying.
    
    			BRUSH, WIPE ON OR SPRAY
    
    Directions:  Stir well.  Clean surface throroughly.  Apply with
    soft brush or cloth in long even strokes.  When film is partially
    set (5-10 minutes) it may be stippled if desired by patting lightly
    with cheese cloth.  Glass Frosting shows full frosted effect when
    nearly dry.  Apply to inside of windows.  Beautiful shades can be
    obtained by tinting with oil colors.

    I've seen people use spray cans of clear enamel (eg. Krylon) to
    effectively frost glass. It's relatively durable, but removable.
    
    Alternatively, if a permanent frosting is desired, and a sand blaster
    is not readily available, you really can scratch up a storm with
    silicon carbide sandpaper. Of course, it would be very tedious to
    try doing a large area that way, and you'd have to be careful around
    window frame edges. Silicon Carbide is generally black in color,
    compared to the buff or grat color of Aluminum Oxide. Alum oxide
    isn't really hard enough to abrade the glass very well.
    
    Bill

Hi,

Depending on how big your window is and where it is, you might want to
consider going to a stained glass store for supplies.  Don't know where you
live, but look in the yellow pages, under "Glass- Stained and Leaded" and
check out some of the stores or studios that sell supplies. 

If the window does not need to be "pretty" after it's frosted, you might
want to buy your self a bottle of "Armour Etch" which is a paste that you
paint on to the window and allow to sit for several minutes.  When you wash
it off, your glass is lightly frosted.  The trouble is, if you cannot
remove the window to do this, it becomes a little more difficult on a
vertical surfacesine you may get dripping and running of the paste.  Also,
with Armour Etch, you sometimes get slight streaking.

If the window is in a part of your house where it needs to look nice, you might
consider having a studio sandblast it for you with some sort of design (one
of your own or perhaps a pre-cut stencil).  Sand carved glass is quite
beautiful and will give you the privacy you want.

If you don't care about looks, however, (and your window is fairly small)
you might want to try the Armour Etch. You could experiment first on a
small piece of window glass and see if you get the effect you are looking
for. 

Hope this helps.

Diana

    This may be a slight digression, but I have a ceiling light fixture
    whose glass is too clear.  I'm glad I found this note and will try
    some of the advice to frost the fixture's glass.  Thanks for all
    the advice.
    
    Btw, did the base noter ever get that window frosted?
    
    	Marlene

	re .3
    
        Where can you get "3 micron diamond paste" ? - I did manage
        to find a wood block. (8-) 
             

    
    re .5
    
    Diamond compound can be had from most Industrial Supply houses.
    A 5 gram tube of compund might cost you $10 ( haven't priced
    any for a number of years). The other source might be companies
    that do lapping as a service. You might get a "dab" from them for
    less. It goes a long ways. 

        RE .7
        
    	Pardon my ignorance ... What's an Industrial Supply House an
        where do I find one ? 

    Look in the yellow pages under industrial supplies!!!!Z 

    Hello. I am interested in getting some pointers on how to perform
    various types of operations on plate glass. I have tried to cut
    some pieces of glass to appropriate sizes for my application but
    haven't had much luck. If the pieces don't just break outright,
    then they don't cut clean. If successful in cutting, how does one
    finish the edges?  I also need to make holes in the glass that have
    a diameter anywhere from, say, 1/8 inch to 1 inch. How can this
    be done?   Any and all info / advice appreciated.
    
    - Scott

    
    
    I don't like working with glass because I have not developed the
    knack or technique to working with it, so I can't give you any
    good ideas on how to get a good, finished edge.  On the other
    question about drilling holes, I do know that many tool catalogs
    (Brookstone's comes to mind), tool outlets, hardware stores etc.,
    sell drills designed to make holes in glass.  I do not know what
    they are made of, but am aware that they require kerosene as a 
    lubricant/coolant.           

    You might want to look in DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOL.  
    
    Unfortunately, there is no keyword for glass but I found several glass
    topics under MISC and DRILLING_AND_MORITISING.  Note 641's title is
    Cutting Plate Glass.  I went through the entire directory and jotted down
    the numbers of titles which had the word glass in them: 93, 136, 215,
    323, 546, and 641.  Several of these mentioned cutting holes in glass.
    
    Briefly reviewing these notes indicated using a welding brazing rod and
    a diamond paste compound.  By turning the brazing rod with your hands
    in the diamond paste compound, you eventually wear a hole through the
    glass.
    
    Hit Keypad 7 to add the conference DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOL
    to your notebook. 
   

    
    In a previous life I worked in a glass and mirror company so I may
    be able to give you some pointers. First of all you need a glass
    cutter that's in good shape. We used Fletcher cutters and left them
    soaking in a jar or can with paint thinner when not in use. This
    kept the cutting wheel in good shape longer. Use a straight edge
    for a guide while scribing a line with the cutter. Before you scribe
    a line, wet along the straightedge with paint thinner using a paint
    brush. This cuts down on heat buildup to prevent the glass from
    actually "welding" itself back together and gives you a cleaner
    "break". This also lubricates the cutting wheel. After you scribe
    the line you need to "snap" it along the scribe line over a straight
    edge or end of the table. For small pieces you have to get a "run"
    going by putting the scribe over a paint brush handle and kind of
    separate the glass with your thumbs. 
        The drill bit we used is a carbide bit that's shaped like an
    arrow head. Use paint thinner to lubricate and drill slowly. For
    large holes they make other kinds of "hole saw" type cutters.
        You can sand the edges with abelt sander with carbide belts.
    
    hope this helps,
    Bob
    
    
      
    cutter.   

    also check 1524 for some very interesting ways of drilling holes
    in glass.
    

I am planning on building a small CD cabinet with glass doors. I would like to
place some small wood handles on the doors but I don't know what kind of
glue will hold wood to glass. I have seen this done with medicne cabinets
in stores. Here is a profile of what I have in mind.
                      #
                      #       ###### = glass
                      #       ****** = wood
                      #\
                      #*\
                      #**|
                      #**|
                      #**|
                      #*/
                      #/
                      #
                      #
Thanks,

Steve

    I've successfully used 5 minute epoxy for wood to glass bonding. Just
    make sure the glass is well cleaned first. Use lighter fluid, alcohol,
    etc.     dep

Drill holes through the glass and screw the handle on. Otherwise you'll be 
looking at the glue from the inside for the life of the cabinet. You'll see
the attament method everytime the door is open

re .1 Thanks, that sounds simple enough I'll give it a try.

re .2 Point well taken, but I neglected to mention in the base note that
      these will be sliding doors so that the back of the glass will
      never be visible. I've done the drill through glass routine once. 
      That takes quite a bit of patience.

Thanks,

Steve

    You might consider using tape that is sticky on both sides.  It's
    usually a thin foam tape and will hang onto wood and glass.
    
    I'd be reluctant to try to drill through glass, although I know
    it's been done.
    

    The Constantine's catalog lists a number of glass door hinges and
    slip on handles.  Some require drilling and others slip over/under
    the glass doors.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    Try any good brand of silicone caulk/sealant/adhesive.  No muss,
    no fuss, and just a dab'll do 'ya.
    Clint
    

    You could also get a "remount kit" for an on-glass antenna and use
    the tape out of that.
    
    These kits are sold so that you can take, say, your cellular phone
    antenna off of one car and mount it on another. 
    
    I know it'll stick to the glass, but I don't know about the wood.
    
    ...tom

    Or you could get a "remount rear view mirror" kit for your car rear
    view mirror.  I know it sticks metal to glass very well.  
    
    Check your local auto parts store.
    

    Does anybody have any experience with Lindal Cedar SunRooms? I am
    seriously considering installing one.
    
    Thanks
    Linda
    

I'm about to start building a new house that will have a loft.  The
plans include a 12' half wall.  I saw a great looking wall of glass
(not blocks, just a solid piece) on a "Hometime" show.  I've mentioned
the concept to several builders and nobody seems to know where I'd 
find suitable glass.
    
I believe code would require a certain weight load, since the wall will
be 15' or so high above the family room, so I think I need something
pretty thick.
    
Any ideas on where I could find something suitable?  Anyone know how
to contact Hometime?  I borrowed a video from someone, so I don't even
know if the show is still on the air.  I don't want a railing, but would
like to keep the loft as "open" looking as possible, so the glass seemed
to be a great idea....if I can find it.

    I also saw that show I beleive it was a episode on their building
    a home of the future...  did have a nice contemporary look.
    
    Basically two suggestions:  
    	1.  Contact you local glass distributor  (yellow pages) I have
    	    seen it used in commercial applications as well.
    
    	2.  Have a friendly chat with your local Building Inspector
    	    he/she may not be able to recommend the source but can
    	    certainly advise you on the strength requirements.

    
    
    a lot of glass walls are built from glass "bricks", you can get them
    from all the DIY stores
    
    according to the magazines they're coming back into fashion after being
    "out" for 20 years 8-)
    
    Simon

    
    any update to the books available on sun-rooms?
    
    I'm real keen/hot 8-) to build one for this summer
    
    thanx ! Simon

    Simon, I built a 4-Seasons greenhouse (I use it for growing plants
    otherwise it's a sunroom) last summer if you'd like I'll bring in
    the owners builders manual and the showroom models sheet.
    If you're interested you can come and visit mine or go to 4-seasons
    Spa's located in the shopping center at 8th street and hiway 24 I
    highly reccomend them they bent over backwards helping me.
    A 10' wide 18' long 3/4 thermopane lists around $6,700 kit price
    but I'm pretty sure they'll do better. Buy the biggest one you can
    afford if you plan to use it for growing plants it amazed me at how
    quickly it filled up.
    
    -jerry
    

    re-.1
    FWIW- I got a few books on 'roll yer own' greenhouses/sunspaces too.
    
    -j

    Boston Mirror Corp
    Old Colony Ave
    S.Boston
    617-268-5880
    
    Boston Mirror does work like this.  Give them a call.  They
    do allot of work for decorators such as mirroring a screen,
    mirrored china cabinets.  They can recommend thickness of glass
    and may be familiar with your building codes.  

    If you're concerned about safety, check into plexiglass and the like. 
    You could probably get a nice effect of openness without the dangers of
    glass shards.
    
    Stick with the solid pane, though.  I still don't like the idea of the
    glass 'brick' look. *8�)...*8�)...
    
    Patrick			Long_Live_`66_Mustangs!!!
    

    
    Actually, I like glass bricks, but I don't think they'd look good for
    this application.
    
    Cq

    My home has glass walls in kitchen and bath. The glass is half-inch
     thick. Kitchen is WHITE floor to ceiling. A RICH, DEEP RED border
    (near) the ceiling, and another about the same height from floor, as
     a "chair rail" would be. I contacted Pittsburgh Plate Glass, as well
     as others, no-one stocked this material. In the bath, the lower 
    portions are 3' (three feet), square each, then 16" to the ceiling.
      Nice colors. Many demolition companies DO have this material, but
    be prepared to pay.  The glass is adhered to *SOLID CONCRETE* WALLS,
     WITH CONCRETE GROUTING!! The original owner spared nothing when (he)
    built the place.
              Jim T.
                         

I'm looking for a good glass shop, with reasonable prices, that can fabricate
a 3/4" sheet of plate glass into a triangular shaped coffee table, with large
radius corners.  Prefer within a 15 minute detour of my Newton, MA to 
Littleton, MA commute. Others considered.

Thanks.

Steve
lyre::spm
dtn 226-7545

    You may want to call M&D Stained Glass on Rte. 119 in Littleton.  They
    do custom windows and lamps, door inserts.  If they cannot help you,
    they may know who can.
    
    I have never had anything done there but know of some very satisfied
    customers.

    Another good place is Settles Glass in Chelmsford.  They do very good
    glass work!
    
    Rhonda

    Any auto glass shop can do it.  There's one on Washington street
    between West Newton and Newtonville that did a table top for me.
    

M and D Stained Glass in Littleton (now Dianthus Glass) does not fabricate
plate glass -- she would only send it out.  I used Hillcrest Glass Co. in
Needham (right on the Newton line) to fabricate a thick piece of
racetrack-shaped glass for a coffee table.  They were excellent -- quoted
me right over the phone, I went in, he sketched out what it would look
like, I paid my deposit, and had the glass in 10 days.  It was even cheaper
than what he originally quoted (and half the price Settles Glass quoted
me).

Hillcrest Glasss Co., Inc.
74 Fremont Street
Needham, MA
(617) 444-6040

    Would anyone know what the R value of  1" thick single pane
    tempered glass is???     The 4' X 7' pane would be set in a 
    wood frame, and used to close in a porch.
    
    Also, would the glass be too heavy to put in and out every
    season, (the window would be at waist height)?
    
    Would 1" glass be thick enough to prevent condensation?
    
    The 30' X 12' porch, with a ceiling height that ranges from
    15' sloping to 8', would be insulated and heated with a
    wood stove and have a ceiling fan to circulate heat.
    
    We are considering using removable windows in order to 
    maintain an open screen porch in the summer.   The house
    is located in New England and the porch has a northern
    exposure with indirect sunlight from early am until mid-
    afternoon.  
    
    Thanks in advance for the advice.
    
    Henry
    Henry                                 
    

    The R-value of glass is slightly less than 1, as I recall, for any
    thickness less than several inches.  In other words, it's pretty
    bad.  The only way to get any R-value worth mentioning in a window 
    is to introduce an air space or to apply some kind of reflective 
    film to cut down on the radiant heat loss.
    
    I don't know, offhand, what the weight of glass is, but I'd guess
    it's in the 150 lbs/ft3 range, or more.  So your 4'x7'x1" piece
    of glass would probably weigh in the neighborhood of 300+ pounds.
    

	    Not only would a 1" thick piece of glass be heavy, it would be
	very expensive.  A 4x7' sheet of 1/4" glass would run over $100.
	I think that would be plenty strong enough.
	    For insulation, you might consider double paning to create an
	air gap.  Glass is a good conductor of heat and cold, so one pane
	is likely to form condensation. 
	    Lexan, which is more expensive than glass, might work better
	for you.  An 1/8" sheet would be light enough for one person to 
	handle.  It doesn't conduct as well as glass and it's virtually 
	unbreakable.  

					Tim

    
    You might consider just adding a slider.  I see Grossmans has one
    on sale for about $300...... This way you can open it up when need be,
     and close it up in the winter.  Being as it you have a wood stove.  
    I wouldnt worry about it being cold in that area....
    
    JD

    
      1" thick glass? You're kidding right? What made you say 1" glass? Do
    you already have the piece and wonder if you can use it? Do you think
    it needs to be that thick or will help you in some way?
    
      The R value of glass is terrible. 1" thick glass will be VERY
    expensive and VERY heavy and maybe even hard to find.
    
      How about a frame of 1" thick wood with plexi on each side? It would
    be easy to make, pretty cheap and have twice the insulating value of
    one thickness of glass. 
    
    				Kenny

    Some where in my travels I met a man who's new family room had one of
    the "Old Style" Purdential building glass for a picture window.  They 
    were scrapped out in the Springfield area.  The glass was (from foggy
    memory) 27 thin layers glued together, weighted a couple of hundred
    pounds but had a very high R value.  This glass is heavily tinted.
    
    I didn't like it for a window but it was unique at the time (they were
    still falling out of the building).  Maybe this is an alternitive for
    you.  

    I think you meant the Hancock tower, right?

    My parents bought us some teak bedroom furniture (dresser, gentleman's
    bureau and a night stand).  The night stand is a new arrival
    (anniversary gift).  I would like to get glass tops put on these pieces
    or, at the very least, the night stand because it gets the abuse
    (sweating glasses) and I don't want to ruin the wood (right now we're
    using the drawer to put the iced tea on).  Is there a place in Nashua
    that can do this at a reasonable cost?  Or if anyone has an
    recommendations as to the thickness or alternatives...
    
    Thanks for your help.
    
    Sandra

Any glass shop should be able to do it.  You might want to put felt dots
on the underside of the glass.

				Steve

    Thanks...wasn't sure if I had to go to a 'specialty' shop or
    something...
    
    Sandra

They will probably ask/suggest this anyway, but what you want is plate glass.

    
    	What you need is another x-tra set that you can use as an everyday
    set. :)
    
    g

    Oh George!!!  I have to agree, but teak is VERY heavy and difficult to
    move, never mind how expensive!  ;)

Or you could just use coasters for your wet glasses...

:-S

    
    	Sandra....don't tell me you allow drinks in the bedroom....never
    mind......
    	
    g

> They will probably ask/suggest this anyway, but what you want is plate glass.

	But she only wanted to put glasses on it!  8^*

	As opposed to plates.

    hahahahaha!!!!  Slow day????  ;)
    
    Anyway, I did some calling around and for those who may be interested,
    I found that Nashua Glass is the most reasonable.  There was a
    difference of $30.  For me, that's a significant savings.  After all,
    $30 buys a few attitude adjusters!

    
    Attitude adjusters....watch that new you......I gotta see for myself,
    where is N.H. ?
    
    g

    Does anyone know of a person/contact that can
    fix a broken blown-glass horse?  It was a 
    present brought back from Italy.
    
    I don't think I can fix this myself.  I think
    I need a professional.  Does anyone know of
    one in the Lowell-Westford area?

    You might try inquiring at chemical supply houses to see if they can
    give you any leads to somebody who makes laboratory glassware.

	Some of the fancy antique magazines have ads for people
who repair valuable glass/china.   A call to the Museum of Fine
Arts in Boston might be able to point you to such a person.
But I suspect this is an expensive route.

	Some of malls sometimes have people who do blown glass
animals, and they might be able to do a repair inexpensively.

	The Marlboro phone book lists
		Yankee Glass Blower
		Concord	369 7545

    I would try Trefler - they are in Needham Mass. someplace, but they have
    moved since the last time I broke something I couldn't fix myself, and
    I don't offhand have their phone number.  They repair antiques of all
    sorts - especially glass items (they repaired a cut glass decanter I
    have - you have to look very closely to see that it was ever broken)
    and precious metals.  They aren't cheap, though.  Call information,
    call Trefler, and see if they can fix blown glass.  One nice thing that
    they do is tell you right away if repairing your things is going to
    cost more than the items are worth, so you can decide if the
    sentimental value makes them worth fixing anyhow.  One time I was in
    there, a woman came in with a bunch of old wineglasses, some of which
    were broken.  They weren't worth anything much, but they were an
    important piece of family history, and the woman had them restored.
    
    /Charlotte

    Does anyone have any experience with making glass one-way???
    My glassman is out on LTD and would like some quicker answers.

    Please and thank you.

    justme....jacqui

>    Does anyone have any experience with making glass one-way???
>    My glassman is out on LTD and would like some quicker answers.

"One way" glass is a misnomer.
Light goes both ways, but not all the light goes through.
You need to "half silver" the glass.  This is what makes the "one way"
look like a mirror, but it will look like a mirror only from the more
brightly lit side.
You can buy "half silvered" mylar (roll plastic) that you can put
on a window.  This makes the window a mirror from the more brightly lit side,
and a (darker) window from the less brightly lit side.
We have a piece on a kitchen window "shielding" a bird feeder just 
outside the window.  On a brightly lit day, the birds see their reflections,
and we see the birds.  At night, we see our reflections, and (presumably)
the birds would see us.

- tom]

    I would not want it to be see-thuable  ;*)  at night!!!   Also,
    is there a supplier in the GMA that doesn't charge an arm and
    a leg for a large quantity?


    Please and thank you.


    justme....jacqui

>    I would not want it to be see-thuable  ;*)  at night!!!   

Well, it will be, almost to the degree that any window is.
Don't you notice how easy it is to see into brightly lighted homes
at night as opposed to the same homes and windows during the day?
(not that you're really LOOKING, of course)

We got a one square foot piece of the mylar with the bird feeder.
Any glass shop can provide either this stuff or prepared glass that will
do the same thing.

- tom]

           What's your experience with Nashua Glass?  
           I know their prices are good.           

           Steve

    I can't recommend them.

>    I can't recommend them.

           Any specifics?  or, may I call you?  (1st name?)
           
           Steve

    Not only did they not come to do the work we'd arranged for at the
    appointed time, they didn't call, and when we called them, they
    indicated that they'd found something better to do and had no idea when
    they could come to do the work we'd arranged for them to do. Needless
    to say we found someone else to do the work (and for less).