Conference 7.286::home_work

    		Well my kitchen has progressed to the the point of
    	doing the plumbing. I need some help (ideas) on how to hook
    	up a disposer / sink / dishwasher.
    
    		o Is this something I can do myself? or should I
    		  hire someone?
    
    		o What do I have to do to hook it up. Any how do
    		  I go about it.
    
    		Any ideas / comments will help.... Thanks...
    
    
    					Steve
    

    	It all depends on what you have to work with.  If the plumping
    is already there then you don't have to big a job.  But is you have
    to run a drain and hot/cold supplies well it's difficult to advise
    you.  I think some more specific questions as to the different stages
    and facets of the job would be more appropriate than just tell "tell
    me how to do it".  Reply with some specifics and maybe I can help
    a bit.
    
    						Jorge'

    	Sorry about that.... There is presently nothing there now...
    I am moving the sink from it's present location, approx 10ft. away.
    
    	I will be having to run a new drain into 4" cast iron. Also
    new supply lines will be installed (hot and cold). I have purchased
    a waste king disposer and am using Moen faucets. Hope this helps...
    
    	My main questions (concerns) is hooking up the drain into the
    4" cast. What do I need to do to hook up the dishwasher and disposer.
    (Water lines/valves/drains etc). I'm real unsure about this stuff.
    I feel confident about supply lines to the faucets....
    
    				Cooch
    

    I'm not sure about how to connect the PVC waste line from the disposer
    to the cast iron pipe.  The disposer should have a connection for
    a dishwasher.  It is usually plugged up with a rubber stopper. 
    You push the stopper out by using a pencil (or screwdriver) into
    the chamber, then remove the stopper from the chamber.
    
    You then go get some rubber drain tubing (1/2" I.D.) or whatever size fits
    the drain of the dishwasher.  Connect the tubing to the dishwasher
    drain using a hose clamp.  The tubing must then rise to a height
    of at least 4 feet above the ground before connecting it to the disposer.
    
    If the inside diameter (I.D.) of the hose you are using does not
    fit the disposer, you will have to get a rubber "adapter" and a small
    2-3" piece of copper pipe (1/2" O.D.).  Sort of looks like:
             
    _______________   =======\
    	                      \--------  _____________ -------------
    disposer 3/4 OD   adapter 3/4-->1/2  Copper 1/2 OD   Hose 1/2 ID
    _______________           _________  ------------- _____________
    	              =======/
    
    You connect all this together with 3 hose clamps.  The adapter comes
    with 2 of them.
    
    The supply line is connected to the dishwasher using 3/8" "bendable"
    copper tubing with compression fittings.  You may need some 90 degree
    angles fittings to get it into the correct position.
    
    -al

	The easiest way to connect to the 4" cast, assuming you can't
	tap into a nearby cleanout, is to replace a section of it
	with 4" PVC. Your local hardware store should carry rubber
	sleeves for making the connection between the PVC and the
	cast iron pipe.

    RE: .3's comment on hooking the dishwasher output to the nipple
    on the disposal built for it.
    
    Be careful. Mine was hooked up that way and it means that if
    1. You have food in the disposal or its output tube
    2. You run the dishwasher
    3. You leave the house while it's running
    
    You can wind up with the dishwasher waste water backing up, filling
    the sink and running all over the floor.
    
    It happenned so many times in my house that I ripped out the traps
    for the double sink (disposal on one) and the tubing for the dishwasher
    and redid it: I put in a separate trap into the 2"PVC horizontal
    that gets the output from the dishwasher. Sommerville has a host
    of adapters that let me run the dishwasher waste hose into a 2"
    PVC trap. NOW THE DISHWASHER NEVER OVERFLOWS VIA THE SINK!
    
    Also, if you have a double sink, watch out for the way the 1.5"
    PVC "T" that mates the output from the disposal to the drain from
    the other sink. Some are more restrictive than others and can wind
    up backing up with waste from the disposal more often... Make sure
    the "T" doesn't look like (part of it) is a choke.

    Did you connect the dishwasher to the inlet on the side of the disposer
    or is it still connected to the drain as before?
    I have no idea if that would have anything to do with the problem
    but i have a plumer that lives next door and will ask what he thinks.
    -j
    

    The dishwasher is connected to the top side of the disposer. (you
    knock out a plug and just hook it up.)
    
    Please ask your plumber neighbor the following:
    
    " Can a 2 inch diameter, 20 foot long, 1/4 inch/foot slope pipe
    handle a garbage disposer?"
    
    I think he will say no. He might even laugh at the question!
    
    The pipe is very clean, if he asks.

    Sorry it took so long to get back.
    I asked my neighbor and he said the pitch is a little low to get
    good flow but should pass. The pipe is the right size and shouldent
    be a problem ( checked mine and it is 2" also). 
    He suggested you check the vent and make sure it is clear by flushing
    it from up top. If you dont have a vent on the line that should
    be corrected.
    Other things to do is to be sure to let the water run for about
    a min or so after shutting it off to give time for everything
    to wash down.
    
    Hope this helps..
    
    -jerry
    

	I recently moved into a 27 year old house that is basically in pretty
	good shape except for a few minor things.  The realtor pointed out that 
	the garbage disposal doesn't work and I've been looking into fixing it.  
	Generally these things have a switch on the wall near the sink that turns 
	it on.  This one doesn't.  Nothing underneath either.  Nothing behind the
	the wallpaper that I can detect.  How else would this work?  I've heard of 
	some types that turn on when a certain amount of water is flowing down the 
	drain.
	Anyone have any experience with fixing these things?  What to look for, what
	to check, how to turn the foolish thing on?

    
    I think that you'll find that if you put on the drain cover and
    twist or push it'll turn on. This type of switch was developed to
    prevent accidental turning on while things that weren't supposed
    to be disposed of, like fingers, were in the disposal.
    
    JMB
    

another thing to check...

most disposals have a circuit breaker mounted right on the motor housing.
look for (probably) a red button somewhere on the disposal under the sink,
and press it. Again, turn on and if you hear the motor trying but failing to
spin, turn everything off and try to find something stuck preventing the motor
from spinning. Applying the correct type/size wrench on the bottom of the
disposal opposite the direction of normal spinning will usually free
something up that was stuck so that it may be removed.

    I've seen some disposals that have a magnetically opperated switch
    in the flange that attaches it to the sink.  The theory is that
    the plug/strainer has a magnet in it, and when you put the
    strainer/plug into the opening, the switched is closed and whatever
    is in the disposal gets eaten.
    
    This type of disposal is usually used when the owner doesn't want
    to rip into the wall to put in a switch.
    
    BC
    

    I had one once that was activated by a magnetic switch, KitchenAid
    I believe, when the magnet in the drain cover lines up with the
    right side of the unit, it would come on. If it is not the circuit
    breaker maybe you could take it apart and check the switch.
    
    Tim

    me too, i've had 2 kitchen aids in the house in the last 12 years.
    the cover is rather odd looking. it has a "T" on the bottom of it.
    in one end on the t there is a magnet which attracts a magnetic
    switch inside the throat of the unit when the cover is placed in
    the drain hole. you have to make sure the cover goes in right.
    i.e. the magnet in the cover, is lined up with the magnet in the
    throat. G.E. made a similar unit with a micro-switch in the 
    drain hole.  well anyway, if you can't find the cover, junk the
    unit, the covers are about $50 bucks. as far as i'm concerned
    kitchen aids are junk. i had more problems with those units,
    the last one, didn't die, it just liked to turn itself on. 
    it was the magnetic switch in the throat that was defective.
    i installed an in-sink-erator brand disposer. it requires
    an external switch. but when the switch is off --its off---
    i still have the old unit in the basement, if you need it for
    parts your welcome to it. otherwise i'm gonna heave it.
    
    let me know what you decide.
    
    jim....

	Thanks for all the responses.  I went home, found the breaker
	and pushed it in.  The cover is shaped like a T kinda like:

				-----
				  |
				 ---
				 | |
				_| |_

	It does hum when you push this in and twist so I took a peer
	down into it and there appears to be orange pits, popcorn
	kernals and unidentified lumps jammed along the sides.  So
	as soon as I get the chance to be home in the daylight I'll
	turn off the power and see if I can fish it all out.  The
	unit is made by In-sink-erator and the T-shaped cover is
	broken.  Anyone know of a source for these?  Hope this one
	isn't the $50 model.

	John...

    In-sink-erator is made by kitchenaide.
    
    -Don
    

    I have an In-sink-erator model 300 ??? in my basement. If you need
    any parts let me know. I saved it just for this purpose. My wife
    wanted me to throw it away but I thought I could make something
    out of it someday. BTW, replacement parts are expensive, that's
    why it's in my basement.
    
    Tim
    

    for the record:::: one note mentioned that kitchen-aid made 
    the in-sink-erator disposers.
    not true. the kitchen aid name was bought out by whirlpool,
    and in-sink-erator makes the disposers for them. i called my 
    appliance guy, beyond this info, he mentioned that in-sink-erator
    has 85% of the market currently, and they don't make the
    kitchen-aids to the same specs. his advice was to buy the
    in-sink-erator.
    
    just info.
    
    jim.

    re: .5, Kitchen Aid
    
    We have a Kitchen Aid garbage disposal with the magnetic-switch
    cover (called "batch feed" vs. "continuous feed").  We've had it
    for about 6 months and are happy with it.  It eats everything we
    throw into it.  We even had a spoon accidentally jam it, with no
    resulting damage.  I would recommend them.  I like the idea that
    you can't turn it on with your hand accidentally in the unit.
    
    Marc

    I'm not going to try and convince you that what you have isn't
    good. But i've had 2 of them. In a reply i recently wrote
    i mentioned that the unit had gone defunct and the unit 
    had gone on itslef twice, and that was withing an hour.
    
    Fine, and i'm glad you like it. A piece of advice, don't 
    ever put your hands in the unit. If you must then go
    and kill the breaker.  
    
    And for info, the Kitchen-Aids like yours cost about $250+
    (correct) the in-sink-erator i just installed was $125.
    Is a continuous feed 1/2 h.p. all stainless chamber.
    
    Again, i'm not knocking the kitchen aids, when we had them
    we had the "rug rats" around, there grown up now and we
    don't see the need for that type of unit. We also find the
    continuous feed much faster.
    
    jim.
    
    
    

Re: .11
>    I'm not going to try and convince you that what you have isn't
>    good. But i've had 2 of them. In a reply i recently wrote
>    i mentioned that the unit had gone defunct and the unit 
>    had gone on itslef twice, and that was withing an hour.
>    
>    Fine, and i'm glad you like it. A piece of advice, don't 
>    ever put your hands in the unit. If you must then go
>    and kill the breaker.  
>    
>    And for info, the Kitchen-Aids like yours cost about $250+
>    (correct) the in-sink-erator i just installed was $125.
>    Is a continuous feed 1/2 h.p. all stainless chamber.
>    
>    Again, i'm not knocking the kitchen aids, when we had them
>    we had the "rug rats" around, there grown up now and we
>    don't see the need for that type of unit. We also find the
>    continuous feed much faster.
>    
>    jim.
    
    
Obviously a crude forgery!  Our Jimbo would _never_ find the need for four
paragraphs, let alone capital letters and commas.  That is, unless... (gulp),
migod !   It's a NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION !!!

Heyyyy.  Keep it up Jim   :-)

Henry Gillard - TSC Sydney

    re: .11 -< which kind??? >-

    We have the "deluxe" model, 3/4 hp, stainless chamber, auto reversing
    mechanism.  We paid $170, but we bought it together with a refrigerator
    so I think that we got a good price.
    
    Thanks for the info about the faulty switch.  I'll think twice before
    putting my hands in the unit when it's connected to power.
    
    Marc

    We have a IN-SINK-ERATOR 300 which must be 15+ years old what
    we have been noticing recently is that after feeding it banana
    peelings for a week or so the thing jams up and we have to get
    the wrench out and give it a twist to make it go.  By keeping it
    off of bananas for a few days the problem goes away.  Does bananas
    cause anyone else problems?

    Does anyone know who make Sears disposals.  Looking at some pictures
    they look similar to IN-SINK-ERATORs.

    re: .15
    
    According to our appliance store, Insinkerator dishwashers are made
    by (and virtually identical to) Kitchen Aid (or vice versa). Don't
    know if this is true for disposals, too.
    
    Alan

     The house we just bought has a in-sink garbage disposal. The 
problem is that it emitting an odor that is nauseating. We tried 
throwing baking soda down and it didn't help. Anyone have any 
ideas on what I can use to get rid of this smell.

thanks
daryll

    What I do at home is throw in the peels of any citrus fruit to keep
    it smelling fresh. Using a quartered lemon is even better. The peel
    and the acid from the fruit will scrub it and usually takes care of it.
    It also helps to leave the water running for a few seconds after every 
    use to wash everything out of the drain pipe. That way there won't be 
    any decomposition happening in it.

    
    	I throw in a couple of ice cubes for some scrubbing action.
    
    						=Ralph=

    Insinkerator disposals are not the same as Kitchenaid disposals;
    at least the last time I looked.  Just take a look at the cutaway
    ones that they have in the appliance/kitchen stores sometime.  The
    Kitchenaid models are much better constructed (and more expensive).
    
    -al

    We have a Sears garbage disposal. The innards are rusted pretty
    badly. It still works, but isn't rust odd for a garbage diosposal?
    Is this cause for free replacement by Sears? Any potential problems
    out of this?
    
    We just bought the house but the entire kitchen was remodeled 18
    months ago - including new disposal. This is odd.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Mike

    Just curious...
    
    I've got a hell of an odor in my kitchen sink and I don't know what's
    causing it.  It's no big deal because the kitchen will be remodeled
    shortly and the sink will be moved, but recently, there's a strong
    odor, kind of like garbage, coming from the drain.
    
    There's an S-trap, which I cleaned last week, so that's been checked.
    It's town water and sewage, if that matters.  There's no dishwasher
    or garbage disposal, and I've used Liquid Plumber, and the sink
    doesn't back up, the water flows down the drain fine. (I've also
    used baking soda in the past.)
                               
    This just started recently, but the smell's still there.  Anyone
    have any ideas/solutions?  Thanx in advance.
    
    (I've checked past notes, but every one has to do with septic system
    odors, or garage disposal odors, or bathroom odors...not kitchen
    sinks.)
   
     

    Its possible that you are loosing the water from your trap (a quick
    check is to remove the cleanout plug if one exists, if no water
    comes out, the trap is syphoning out). This can be a problem with
    s traps because they are more prone to syphoning. If thats the case,
    you'll probably have to check for a clogged vent pipe-perhaps a
    bird or other creature has decided to nest or die in the pipe. You
    may have to figure out where your plumbing goes above the kitchen
    to trace the vent upward toward the roof. The odor is probably sewer
    gas.
    
    Eric
    

    You also might have some decaying food material stuck to the pipes
    someplace.  If that is the problem, dumping about half a box of
    baking soda into the drain and running cold water until all the
    baking soda has washed down will usually get rid of the odor (and
    you thought that TV ad was just a poly to sell more baking soda
    by having you use it to deodorize your refrigerator and then pour
    it down the drain).

    Another option is a big kettle of boiling water...maybe cook spaghetti
    tonight?
    

    
    	Siphoning can also be caused by the S or P trap not being level
    or plumb.  You may want to check this out too.

    Well, the smell's gone.  The Liquid Plumber or baking soda must
    have washed away rotting food particles.  I checked for syphoning,
    but that was fine, also the trap was fairly level.  It was there
    for about a week, now it's fine.  Appreciate the comments and help.
    

    I had a similar problem in my bathroom sink, coupled with a slow
    drain.  The drano not only sped things up, they fixed the smell
    from the whatever.
    
    Elaine

    
    Don't use draino if you have plastic piping.
    

    Help!!!
    
    Late night I discovered that a large size paper clip was jamming
    my garbage disposal. Part of the pc is projecting into the cavity,
    but I can't seem to pull it out. Can anyone lend any ideas of how
    to get it out. 
    
    It is jammed between the inner unit which moved around
    and the outside wall of the disposal. I can move it up and down
    and a little to the sides. Any suggestions? What would happen if
    I were to push it down? How thick is that "plate"? If I were to
    push it down would I be pushing it into the motor? What effect would
    that have?
    
    Any helpful ideas are much appreciated. I spent over an hour on
    it last night trying to use the wrench to move it around and free
    it. Mostly it got no where.
    
    thanks,
    
    nancy

Hi. I've jammed my disposal many times.  

Try grabbing the paper clip with a pair of pliers (if you can fit them in
there). The thin "needle nose" type may be helpful.  I'd use "vise-grip" 
pliers if they fit into the opening.

The plate that spins in pretty thick. If you push the paper clip down below the
plate it WON'T go into the motor.  BUT, it will go into the drain (not good).

If all else fails, you can remove the whole unit from the sink and take it
apart.  Sounds like alot of work, but it isn't too tough if you're handy.
Disconnecting the drain is the hardest part.  Ususally it takes 5 or 10 minutes
to remove the whole thing.


good luck,
...bill

    RE .1
    
    Well I got in there with the needle nose pliers last night and tried
    pulling it out. However it kept getting stuck. I don't know if it's
    that it's rally jammed or that I'm just not strong enough.
    
    nancy

    
    As Bill says try to get a hold of the Paper Clip. I also had luck
    by pushing the tabs at the bottom of the basket Counter Clock wise.
     This usually backed out the spoons, forks and everything else the
    kids used to throw in the desposal.
    
    Cal.

    
    	Check the bottom of the disposal underneath the sink for a
    	hex socket.  Many disposals provide a hex wrench to insert in
    	this hole which allows you to turn the unit back and forth
    	(WITHOUT the power on please) and loosen many objects.

    	If it is an INSINKERATOR disposal there is a Hex nut on the
    bottom that allows for manual turning of the 'chopper'.  Insinkerator
    supplies the wrench with the unit and they are available at parts
    stores.  As a matter of fact they will mail you one if you give
    them a call.
    	As a last resort, most disposals reverse direction each time
    they are started.  If something was jammed while the blade was spinning
    left, the next time the unit starts the blade will reverse direction
    and spin right.  Don't forget there usually a reset button on the
    unit in case it will not reset.
    	Please unplug or turn off the unit before working.  I love
    disposals but they still scare the hell out of me.
    
    					=Ralph=

    I have found a broomstick helpful in certain instances.  Very often,
    just turning the rotor with the broomstick is enough to allow the
    motor to work again.
    Steve

    	Does anyone know if the blades for a Sears Disposal ever need
    to be replaced? We recently bought a house with a disposal of unknown
    age and it seems to merely spin residue around inside instead of
    grind it up. It has to be cleaned by hand every week because the
    guzz just builds up inside no matter how much water is run down
    there. We never had a disposal before, so I don't know if this is
    normal.
    	BTW, I had looked down inside, past the rubber catch, and I
    can't see any bolt or nut holding the blade on the spindle. Is there
    some trick to getting it off, or do I have to yank the whole unit
    out?
    
    				Thanks,
    
    				Tom
    
    	

    Our recently purchased house had a 100% brand new kitchen. We were
    ecstatic, that is until we started having problems with a clogged
    kitchen drain. Cause? The disposer was *20* years old and two of
    the three chopping blades were missing. We installed a new one with
    a stainless steel grinding chamber and stainless blades (because
    the one that was in there didn't have a stainless chamber and it
    was badly rusted.) No problems since. 
    
    I don't know if you can sharpen the blades -- it might be easier
    (and cheaper) however to just buy a whole new unit. The Sears model
    we bought was very easy to install.
    
    Mike

    It helps to throw some harder objects into the disposal every once
    in a while to grind off the scuzz;  a peach pit or some chicken
    bones or something like that.  Otherwise, the scum does build up!
    Assuming there isn't something physically wrong like .1's missing
    blades, that should do the trick.  I never heard of needing to
    resharpen the blades, or of any way to do it.

I assume all of you are on sewer, or in any event really don't mean to 
hurt your septic system?

    	I think that there my be some misunderstanding of my original
    question. I *DON'T* want to sharpen them, only replace them, if
    possible. I am getting SOME grinding action, but it doesn't seem
    to be enough. Is there perhaps some ballpark test I can perform
    to see if it is doing its job? Like chucking in a chicken bone?
    	Maybe the blades are broken, looking down there, all I can see
    are four rectangular studs sticking up about 1/2" above the bottom
    spin plate. There are no "blades" to speak of. The "blades"
    don't seem to be broken, as they look symetrical.(maybe symetrically
    broken :^)) 
    	I seem to be getting the feeling that I am looking at buying
    a new disposal...
    
              
     				Tom 

    RE .2
    	Steve,  I throw ice cubes down the disposal to clean off the
    scum.  It cleans the blades and gets rid of the stale ice.
    

    The ice does a good job!
    
    One thing to check is that the blades are moving free.  They can
    bind up and not spin freely out to the outer rim of the disposal
    at which point they will stop grinding properly.  If they do bind
    up it doesn't take long for them to rust up and not move at all.
    If this happens an application of rust buster (of some sort) for
    a period of time will free them up.
    
    

    I had a similar problem with a fairly new Sears disposal.  Found
    that the two (as I recall) bar shaped pieces on the rotating plate
    which you see looking down the drain, had become rusted (stuck)
    on the mounting pins.  Removed the unit, cleaned with a wire brush
    and drowned the mounting pins in WD40 (LPS, et al).  No problem
    since.  The response about something hard down there once in a while
    seems to help also.  Sort of scrapes the gunk off.  Good point aboutn
    septic systems also.  Watch the volume of junk that goes down. 
    The system can only process so much.  Push it too hard and you may
    find the bath tub emptying via the downstairs toilet.
    
    Regards, Pete Duke
    

The real blades are small and around the circumference.  You might be able 
to see them if you angle a flashlight as far as you can.  Those studs are
just to stir things up since garbage would tend to sit in a pile in the 
middle after the edges were gobbled up.

At any rate I would devise my own microwave type comparitive test.  Take a 
few ice cubes and put them down and also some orange peels.  Time the two 
separately.  Then repeat the exercise with a friend's disposal. 

I have a Sears manual for mine.  I'll check tonight if there's a parts 
list.  But I can't gaurantee I'll have news back before next week.

Craig

    
    	Ahhhh !!! I think I get the picture now. The blades, if I
    understand the previous replies correctly, pivot out under centrifugal
    force from under the spinning plate to do their work. Is that correct?
    If that's the case, then they may just be binding...I'll check
    it out this weekend. 
    
    .8:  Thanks for looking into it, I'll try to get a model # this
    weekend when I screw around with it...
    
    				Z-MAN
     

    Am I correct in understanding that if you have a septic system you
    should not use a grabage disposal?  Why is that?
    
    Ed..
    

I don't believe having a septic system prevents you from having a garbage
disposal.  However, a garbage disposal put more stuff into you septic tank that
I assume takes more time to break down and the result is you might have to get
it pumped more often.  

That leads the the second issue, namely how often to get it pumped.  I've some
heard people say if you have a disposal pump it every two years.  Without one
many people I've talked to belive 5 years is a good number.  Some say more
often and others say it's a function of the number of people living in the
house.  Still others point to cases where systems have run for dozens of years
and NEVER been pumped. 

From my perspective pumping is yet anothe insurance policy one should pay if you
don't want to deal with that multi-K repair job down-stream.  The only question
is how often to pay the premium!

-mark

< Note 2826.11 by NETMAN::SEGER "this space intentionally left blank" >


<I don't believe having a septic system prevents you from having a garbage
<disposal.  However, a garbage disposal put more stuff into you septic tank that
<I assume takes more time to break down and the result is you might have to get
<it pumped more often.  

    The problem is two fold; 
        1.   The  food going into the disposal is not broken down as much
        as the Toilet  waste  is  so  it takes longer to decompose.  This
        will cause the tank retain more longer and just simply add to the
        quantity already going there.  If you have a lot of people in the
        house it could be a problem.    This  problem  can  be reduced by
        pumping more often.  
        
        2.  Aslo the disposal will allow for things like egg shells, bone
        bits, etc to enter the system and they  really  don't  decompose.
        Also egg shells float, this leads to solids getting  to the leach
        field.  This is a BIG problem only 'GRAY' water  is  expected  to
        get to the field.  Any solids in the field will  end  up clogging
        the  field.   Also the disposal will allow more greese to get  in
        the field which has the same effect as egg shells. 
        
    The  bottom  line  is  the  septic system could cost up to $10,000 to
    replace, depending on the site, and garbage pick is basicly FREE.  So
    you choose.   I also find it easier to drop the garbage in the bucket
    than to cram it  into  a  little  hole  and wait for it to crunch and
    grind.  
    

<That leads the the second issue, namely how often to get it pumped.  I've some
<heard people say if you have a disposal pump it every two years.  Without one
<many people I've talked to belive 5 years is a good number.  Some say more
<often and others say it's a function of the number of people living in the
<house.  Still others point to cases where systems have run for dozens of years
<and NEVER been pumped. 
<
<From my perspective pumping is yet anothe insurance policy one should pay if you
<don't want to deal with that multi-K repair job down-stream.  The only question
<is how often to pay the premium!

    As you have stated the  pumping  of  a  tank is very sentitive to its
    use.  If you have a lot of people using it, or your instalation seems
    to inhibit decomposition you need to pump often.   If your system has
    good decomposition or little use the time period can  be  longer.   I
    have heard of people having problems of systems failing but baring an
    instlation problem I have never heard of one failing that uas  pumped
    every  2  years.    And  believe  me you don't to clean up after  the
    S$@# (stuff) is on the floor.  I took the chance and lost.     
        
    The  bottom  line  again is for $60 or so dollars every two years its
    worth is.  

    many towns without sewage systems PROHIBIT disposals

    Septic system questions are discussed in great detail in other notes.
    See the SEWAGE index note, 1111.75, for a list of possibilities.
    
       Gary

       Well, it seems that the problem is marginal in doing the comparison
    test. I think that one of the blades may be shot though. 
       So, I'm going to live with it for the time being and add "Replace
    Disposal" to the ever growing list of things to fix around the house.
       Thank You everyone for your suggestions and comments...
    
    				Till the dishwasher goes
    
    					Tom 

    I am looking for some help with an Insinkerator garbage disposal
    that is not working, it is the type that is wired to a switch on
    the wall. When it is turned on all it does is hum. I have heard
    that sometimes they will stop working due to all the gunk that
    collects inside and that there are solutions available that will
    disolve the stuff. Is this what I need to do or am looking at 
    replacing the whole unit? BTW...as far as I can see, there isnt
    anything jamming the unit that is accessible by hand and the 
    unit is approx. 6 1/2 yrs old.
                            Barry Nestor 
                            dtn 264-5000
    

    Have you tried the old broom stick manuver?
    TURN THE DISPOSAL OFF AT THE SWITCH.
    Visually inspect the disposal for foreign objects. (watermelon seeds,
    coins, bones, toys, ....) Remove hard objects if possible. Beware
    of broken glass.
    
    Use a broom handle or similar semi-hard lever to force the internal
    assembley to rotate around the center spindle COUNTER-CLOCKWISE.
    (you are backing up the mechanism.) You will find protrusion on
    the interior sides near the bottom which allow leverage to be applied.
    
    When the disposal turns freely inspect again for hard objects.
    
    If disposal refuses to unjam, it may have rusted and is probably
    not repairable. Our acid water seems to allow corrosion to distroy
    a disposal which is unused for weeks.
    
    If it has frozen up, the good news is that replacing a disposal
    is definately a reasonable do-it-yourself job. If you have to 
    replace the disposal, make a thurough inspection of the tail pipes
    (output pipes from the disposal and other sink drain.) PVC (plastic)
    pipes are probably ok but the chrome plated metal pipes are suseptable
    to the same corrosion that probably killed the disposal. You are
    going to loosen the pipes to replace the disposal. The tail pipes
    are relatively cheap and it is a good idea to replace any weak ones
    while you already have them apart.
    
    By the way. I (a single female with no significent plumbing experience)
    replaced the disposal and both tail pipes from my kitchen sink in
    two afternoons. I had forgotten to get plumbers putty so I had to
    stop once and when I began to hook up the old tail pipes they just
    about fell apart in my hands, so I had to stop again. I think it
    would be about a 4 hour job for a prepared amature.  Plumber's
    putty is used to seal the drain "collar" where the name is stamped-
    to the sink opening. You don't need much but you can't get by without.
    
    Hint. egg shells are a great way to de-gunk a disposal. They are
    gritty enough to scrub out gunk but not hard enough to jam the
    disposal.   happy plumbing.   Pat Tomaro

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title.  Please look at these notes; you may find that your
question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question would
be an appropriate continuation of the discussion.  Note that since nearly
everyone uses NEXT UNSEEN to read notes, your question will get the same
exposure whether it is a response to a two-year-old note or it is its own new
note. These topics were found using the keyword directory (note 1111), and you
may find other notes relating to this subject by examining the directory
yourself. 

We do, however, welcome new notes if they explore a specific aspect of a 
problem that may be under general discussion.  And this moderator has been 
known to make mistakes. :^)  So if after examining these notes, you wish to 
continue the discussion here, send me mail.

Paul [Moderator]

    Thanks to Pat Tomaro (note 3368.1) I was able to get our disposal
    to work again. Now I want to get rid of all the rust and black gunk
    that has built up so that hopefully I can prevent this from happening
    again, is there an off the shelf remedy available for this or 
    possibly a common household chemical that would work just as well?
    
                              Barry
    

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title.  Please look at these notes; you may find that your
question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question would
be an appropriate continuation of the discussion.  Note that since nearly
everyone uses NEXT UNSEEN to read notes, your question will get the same
exposure whether it is a response to a two-year-old note or it is its own new
note. These topics were found using the keyword directory (note 1111), and you
may find other notes relating to this subject by examining the directory
yourself. 

We do, however, welcome new notes if they explore a specific aspect of a 
problem that may be under general discussion.  And this moderator has been 
known to make mistakes. :^)  So if after examining these notes, you wish to 
continue the discussion here, send me mail.

Paul [Moderator]

   I put in a garbage disposal last weekend. After only a couple of days, it
started to spit back at me. After some investigation I found the blockage was
in this cylindrical 'tank' in the basement. The picture that follows shows what
the setup looks like. The food seemed to be settled in the bottom of the 'trap'
or whatever it is. It has one of those sewere plugs on the bottom so I was 
able to clean it out. It looked completely empty inside to me, no chambers 
or other gizmoids. It's only big enough to hold less than a gallon of 'stuff'.
So what I'd like to know is:
What is this thing?
Why is it there?
Can I remove it, and if so, what should I replace it with?
How can I keep it from blocking and jamming the line?
   I should mention that I'd never cleaned it out before. I only noticed it
because it was blocking the wastew from the disposal. Thanx for your help.
                                             Denny


||From Kitchen Sink
||
||     ______
||     |    |----------To Sewer
||     |    |----------
||_____|    |
-------|    |<-----This is it!
       ------

    
    I believe it's just a trap. I used one of those for the shower in my
    upstairs bathroom. It has a wide removable cover on top so I can clean
    it out from above, and I can access it from a panel in an adjoining
    closet. I think it's called a drum trap.
    
    I would assume that in your application, the waste water from your sink is
    slowing down when it gets into the large space of such a trap, and the
    heavy duty solid material from the disposal (bird shot from the pressed
    duck?) is settling out instead of washing along to the sewer.
    
    I've never seen the trap for a kitchen sink located in the basement.
    Is there another right under the sink and disposal? With a direct line
    (no other connections) to the trap in the basement? If so, the one in
    the basement would appear to be redundant.
    
    At any rate, I'd try the following:
    
    	1) Use more water while grinding (and stop flushing those lead
    	   pellets down the sink :-)
    
    	2) If the trap in the basement is redundant, replace it with a
    	   plain old bend.
    
    	3) If the trap in the basement is indeed _the_ trap for the kitchen
    	   sink, replace it with an elbow trap to increase water
    	   turbulence.

    Looks like what I vaguely remember as a "grease trap" - used in
    septic systems to keep greasy gunk from clogging the drain field.
    You're supposed to clean the grease out of those things once in
    a while.  But as .-1 said, I've also seen these type of thingies
    used elsewhere.

       Yeah, the trap in the cellar is the only one. Guess the best bet is
    to replace it. Thanks.
                                         Denny

    If you have a septic system and the trap you plan to remove is a grease
    trap then the grease may eventually clog  your  leach field.  According
    to my home inspector putting a disposal on  a septic system is a little
    like a time bomb waiting to go off..   And  the  cost  to fix a problem
    later could exceed the convenience of having the disposal.

       I've got city sewer. No septic system.
                                 Denny

    I'm not very familiar with plumbing codes, but I think there are
    some situations in which an S-trap is not allowed, you need to 
    use the kind you have.  If you replace what you've got with an
    S-trap, you may violate the plumbing code.

    
    	Hi,
    
    		You might want to check local plumbing codes to verify
    	what is allowed. As far as I know both drum traps and the
    	application that you have here, more commonly known as a house
    	trap, are not compliant with the BOCA plumbing codes. But that
    	really depends on what the town you live in has adopted for
    	a plumbing code standard. 
    
    		My 2 cents worth

    Our KitchenAid garbage disposal won't turn off.
    
    It doesn't have an external on/off switch.  Instead
    the plug for the drain has a magnet built into it
    that turns the disposal on when you put the plug into
    the drain.
    
    Luckily the disposal is on a circuit all by itself,
    but flipping a circuit break is not my idea of how
    you're supposed to turn it on or off.
    
    The disposal is perhaps 10 years old.  So perhaps the
    best thing to do is just replace it.
    
    Anyone have any ideas about repairing it?

    Sounds like the magnetic switch in the disposal neck is stuck in the
    closed position.  You might be able to figure out if the switch
    is replaceable.  As I remember, the switch on my Insinkerator?  is
    mounted in a metal 'can' on the side of the tube.
    
    I would assume you could test the switch with an ohm meter and get a
    replacement thru a parts store.
    
    Ed

    How about giving it a good whack! (might unstick the switch)

    re .2
    Whacking didn't work.

This sort of batch-feed disposer has a magnetic reed switch.  If the switch
gets stuck, it has to be replaced.  I don't know of an easy way around it.

I recently bought a batch-feed disposer, but preferred Maytag's design to
KitchenAid's.  With the Maytag, the sensor is in a separate capsule that
clips (firmly) onto the mounting bracket, so it is easy to replace if ever
needed.  Also, rather than turning a handle on the stopper, you turn it on
by inverting the stopper in the opening.

However, I chose a batch feed more for safety than "convenience", and
installed a wall switch to control it.  So what I do is put the stopper in,
run the water and then use the switch as one would a continuous-feed model.

				Steve

    I think you're going to have to take it apart, since whacking it
    did not free up the switch.  You might try calling the Customer
    Relations Department of Hobart Corporation, KitchenAid Division
    at (513) 335-7171. 
    
    By the way, I recently busted off the handle of my 1986 KitchenAid
    magnetic cover gizmo.  I got a price of $39. for a new cover, gulped a
    couple of times, went home and used a plastic steel two-part epoxy to 
    put the handle back on.  It's now more solid than the original design.
    It's been three weeks and I've tried to slam it to break it, but it's
    on for good.
    
    Frank             

Hi,

My wife was running the disposal the other day when it just stopped
running.  Nothing is jamming it.  When the switch is turned on, it 
sounds like the disposal is jammed, though.  I've hit the reset 
switch on the bottom of the unit and nothing different happens.

I'm not sure of my next step...

Bob

    
    Re -1.
    
           With the switch off, put a long screwdriver etc inside and see
    if the disposal will turn. Mine jams occasionally and when you look
    inside you can't see anything noticible jamming the disposal.  
                                                             
                                                    Bill

    Many disposal units come with a key that insert near the bottom of the
    unit and is used to unclog/turn the unit. I have done that with mine on
    a few occasions.

    Just remember to initially turn it BACKWARDS first!
    
    Eric

Thanks for all your input...

I found a piece of wire (like a large paper clip) in the
disposal last night.  By using a bent coat-hanger and needle-nose
pliers, I was able to remove it.

Thanks for the advice,
Bob

I had the same problem once.  If the large 'paperclip' is spring steel then the
likely source is the rubber dohickey (technical term here) in the drain of the
sink through which you push the debris.  For that rubber dohickey to maintain
its shape and fit snugly in the drain it has a piece of circular spring steel
in it.  You should replace the spring for your convenience and be careful not
to dislodge it in the future.

In my case, the damn disposal bit down on the steel so hard I couldn't move it
with any tools I had.  (I stopped short of using the 6' bar I use for adjusting
rock implants in my lawn.)  I had to call a serviceman.  The disposal was still
under warranty.  The guy was nice and let me get away without charging me.

Stan

    
    
    	My friend will be replacing the existing garbage disposal
    	with a new one.  I offered to give a helping hand but might
    	need some tips on doing this job.  Can anyone assist me on
    	how tough of a job this will be and what I'll need besides
    	just the disposal that needs to be replaced.  I haven't seen
    	the electrical workout of this so I'm wondering if it has a
    	separate breaker or not.  If not, I'll have to hit the right
    	breaker to do the wiring protion of this.
    
    	Any hints and/or walk throughs would be greatly appreciated.
    	Thanx in advance...
    
    	Tom

I just replaced a 14-year-old Kadette (don't remember the full name) with a
new In-Sink-Erator.  It was a three-hour job, but you should note that I
normally have to call in help to complete this kind of job, which I didn't in 
this case.

Both were the same general design and the new one slipped right in where the
old one had been.  The instructions included a good deal of information on
replacement as well as first-time installation.  

The only difficulty I had was dragging the old one out of there, but if I'd
looked more carefully at the new one, I wouldn't have had any problems at all,
as even the mounting method was the same.

My guess is that matching the new disposal to the old one was a wise move on
my part.

As for electrical, mine was plugged straight into the wall, but considering the
hard work a disposal has to do -- frequently being jammed, etc -- I imagine it
should not be on an overcrowded circuit.  Mine shares a plug with the dishwasher
but they're never used at the same time. 

    Electrical codes usually specify that a disposal not share a circuit
    with anything else except a dishwasher.
    
    Installation is actually pretty easy; you'll have to remove the old
    fitting which attaches to the sink, and install the one that comes
    with the disposer.  You will probably need to buy a power cord
    and connect it to the disposer.
    
    				Steve

    You may need to buy plumbing putty too - check first to see how your
    new machine mounts in the sink before you pull the old one out. 
    Plumbing putty comes in large, huge, and enormous size containers only,
    so you may be able to get some from one of your neighbors - I have a
    lifetime supply of this stuff from a few small repair jobs.  This job
    isn't a tough one, and usually isn't even especially messy.
    
    /Charlotte

  A small gotcha for those of us who don't read directions (at least fully).
If you have a dishwasher as well, remember to remove the rubber plug on the 
disposal where the dishwasher drain hose plugs into it. 
  The reason I say this, is because I once got a perfectly good dishwasher 
because "the dog gone thing woulden't drain ! But that's another story.

                                           Take Care
                                              GUY

Re: .3

I don't know where you shop, but I routinely buy plumbers putty in small
8-ounce tubs that cost under a dollar.  Yes, you need this to put under the
flange that sets into the sink.

Re: .4

But DON'T remove that plug if you are not hooking up a dishwasher to it!

			Steve

The In-Sink-Erator installation instructions included a list of tools and 
supplies needed.  They were also quite clear about the dishwasher connection.

    What about a situation where you have a dishwasher and no disposer. 
    
    Curently my dishwasher pumps up to a vent at the top of the sink then
    the small hose runs down to the sink drain. Would adding a disposer
    require rerouting of the drain to the disposer, bypassing the vent?
    
    Steve

    
    RE .7    My dishwasher is connected to the vent and then connects to
    
             the garbage disposal...
    
             /Charlie
    

There's no requirement to use the tap on the disposer, and if you've got
a vacuum breaker in the line, you should keep it there.  You could then
run the line from the breaker to the disposer if you wanted.

			Steve

    I usually throw all my fruit and vegatable scraps (along with lots of
    coffee grounds) into a composte pile but over the weekend I was rushed
    and threw, grapefruit rinds, celery, scallions and coffee grounds in
    the disposal.  I noticed the grinder wasn't empting out so I reached
    in (yes it was shut off :^}) and pulled out a fiber filled messed.
    
    Now the question....did I put too much fiber and hard coffee beans in
    teh disposal or is my garbage disposal on its way out?
    
    Thank Joyce

This happens from time to time.  The recommendation I have seen (and which
works for me) is to run a tray full of ice cubes through the disposer
periodically (once a month, maybe.)  This picks up the mat of fibers sitting
on the bottom and lets them get flushed out.

				Steve

    Thanks Steve - I'll do the ice cube cleaning once in a while since I
    don't use it much.
    
    BTW, to others.. I use baking soda several ways and over and over
    again:
    
    1) Leave open box in fridge and freezer to absorbe odors
    2) after about 30 -60 days in there I place the box next to my sink and
    use the same baking soda to scrub my coffe pot, thermos and other
    things stained but needing a good non-abrasive scrubbing.
    3) then I rinse the things off in the sink side (I have a divided
    double sink) that has the garabage disposal to keep that smelling
    fresher.  I also use BS to was down the side of the sink once I do an
    unusully greasy load of dishes.
    
    Jt

    
    
    .......Hummmm?  To much fiber in its diet, a!  :)
    
    

	I had to pick up my dishwasher even though my kitchen rehab hasn't
	progressed that far yet.  That gave me time however to read the
	install instructions and it mentioned that alot of codes require
	you also install an "air gap" device (just saw one at Sears for
	less than $5, probably even cheaper elsewhere).  However it looks
	hideous (it gets installed in one of the holes in the sink,
	assuming you have a free one).

	I've *never* seen anyone with one of these devices before!

	The install instructions say if code allows, all you really need
	is to make sure you have a rise in the waste line of 2-3 feet
	to prevent siphoning, which is what I'd rather stick with if
	it's allowed .....

As the instructions say, some local codes require the air gap device.  Check
with your town's building inspector.  I agree the device is ugly.

				Steve

    My garbaage disposal is about 8 years old and just started leaking
    around the bolt in the bottom that holds the electrical cord in place
    and is also leaking from the bottom center.  Does this sound like a
    repairable problem, or should I just buy another disposal?  Neither my
    husband or I handy so we'd have to call a plumber to come out to cook
    at the disposal and for him to just drive in the driveway it will cost
    us $35.
    
    Thanks,
    Julie
    

Buy a new one.

	Steve

    Part of your drain is leaking.  Replace it.
    

    New ones are cheap.  I bought one (the same brand that I had - 
    a Badger I think) for about $40 bucks or so.  Installed in it
    about 15 minutes.  It came with great directions, etc.  You might
    be surprised how easy they can be installed.

    Do you really think a non-do-it-yourselfer could install one?  I'm
    off to Sommerville Lumber tonight to pick one up, but was going to have
    the plumber install it.  We've got an Insinkerator (sp), so figured
    we'd stick with the same brand.
    
    Thanks,
    Julie
    

If you've already got one installed, putting in a replacement, especially
the same brand, is a piece of cake.

				Steve

    You shouldn't have any problems.  I installed an Insinkerator and found
    the documentation to be excellent (and I'm a bastard about
    documentation).
    

Of course, if you live in Massachusetts, it's illegal to plumb without
a license.  If the plumbing police follow you home from the place you
bought the disposal, pretend you're using it in a sculpture or something.

    .34:
    
    So buy it out of state!
    
    Dick

There are plumbing police stationed at all the border crossings.

    Hm.  They blend in pretty well, don't they?
    
    Guess it's a good thing I haven't bought any plumbing goods at the
    local Home Depot.
    
    Dick

maybe we should all get mobile homes.  When it's time for DIY plumbing,
hook it to the handy mobile-home moving trucks (everyone should have
one), haul it out of state, do the work (with parts from out of state
of course!) and then haul it back home.  The plumbing police will never
know what hit them!

-Mike

    Re: .34
    
    The rule is a strange one. It is legal to buy the parts and sell the
    parts. It is illegal to use the parts!
    
    The one exception is to replace the washer on your sink faucets,
    and I think.......to work on plumbing that isn't for drinking,
    i.e. baseboard heating.
    
    Stupid law from a stupid state.
    
    Marc H.

    
    Get a license, pay yourself the prevailing wage and the law
    requirements will be met.  Of course you're no longer a d-i-y'er.
    
    
    Gary

    This note looks like a good place to put this question.  I noticed that
    the garbage disposal side of my double sink is beginning to smell quite
    musty.  Sort of like decomposing veggies.  Anyone have any idea how to
    get rid of that?
    
    thanks
    
    brian

    Baking soda?

    Lemon rinds and ice cubes work pretty good to clean it out.
    
    Betsy
    

    
    Cut up a lemon and toss that in.

	This was mentioned in another GD topic somewhere, where the
	suggestion was to run ice cubes through the GD every so often
	which will lossen stuck decomposing food particles.

    I dump baking soda down it.
    
    /Charlotte

    Thanks to all, will use, ice cubes and lemon peels followed by baking
    soda, that should do the trick.
    
    Brian

    We use powdered dishwasher detergent (to clear the disposal).  It seems
    to do especially breaking up fat.

I drink two Tanqueray and Tonics with lime, using fresh ice and lime for
each one. Then I dump the ice cubes and lime down the disposal and hit
the switch. Works like a charm.

HTH,

Art

    
    And if it doesn't work, after two G&Ts who cares? :*)

>I drink two Tanqueray and Tonics with lime, using fresh ice and lime for

	    What if you run out of tonic?