Conference 7.286::home_work

    Check PARITY::CONSUMER for some recommendations about various
    applicances.  Avoid Sears.  Try Lechmeres (ask for sale prices though,
    just like at Sears, if it you didn't buy it on sale, you paid too
    much).  Get a Kitchenaid dishwasher.
    
                                                August G. Reinig

    Washer/Dryer  -  Maytag (best)  or Whirlpool (just as good, less
    expensive
    
    Refrigerator  -  Amana (best)  or Whirpool
    
    Dishwasher  -  Definitely a KitchenAid
    
    Disposal - Waste King
    
    I know this does not meet your geographical requirement, but I will
    mention it anyway.  I called Mass Buying Power (617 782-7131) and
    they put me in touch with Percy's in Worcester.  I saved over $150
    dollars on a washer/dryer. You won't have to pay sales tax if it
    is delivered.
    

    We are buying a JennAire stove/oven at New England Appliance in
    Maynard, at a better price than that offered by Percy's through Mass
    Buying Power.
    
    I sometimes wonder about Mass Buying Power.
    
    					Steve

    TRY FAYAD'S APPLIANCE IN NASHUA ON RTE 101-A.
    
    THEY GIVE LARGE DISCOUNTS FOR MULTIPLE APPLIANCE PURCHASES. THEY
    CARRY G.E. 
    
    BY THE WAY CONSUMER REPORTS RATES G.E. DISHWASHER BETTER THAN
    KITCHEN-AID.

    We bought our appliances (Amana D/W, refrig, wall oven, gas cartridge
    cooktop) at Cuomo's.  Best prices around, nice people, good service...
    

    Agree with .5.  We built in the spring and bought DW, Stove, and
    Refridge at Cuomos in Salem N.H.  Their prices were the best around, 
    and they were willing to negotiate.  The sales people were nice,
    however I wasn't to impressed with their knowledge of the products.
    Seems like they were pushing the Magic Chef line, which really looked
    like junk.  They also "claim" to have the lowest price in N.E. on
    JennAir...(I checked and couldn't find lower).
    
    I'd suggest you go to Cuomos ONLY when you've decided on brand and 
    model... and then be prepared to negotiate.
    
    Jim.   

    Note that JennAir was bought out by Whirlpool so the newer "JennAir"
    stoves are just Whirlpools with the JennAir name on it.
    
    Also, Frigidaire == White/Westinghouse, Magic Chef == General Electric,
    Amana == Raytheon, and Hobart no longer owns Kitchenaid.
    
    -al

I just replaced a GE dishwasher with a Kitchenaid and the difference is
remarkable.  The GE had to have everything rinsed and left spots.  Granted
it was probably a cheaper model than the Kitchenaid.  The Kitchenaid is the
"bottom of the line" (Lechmere ~ $430.00 on sale) and is QUIET, cleans very
well (ie no rinsing - just scrape), and has adjustable racks, and three
cleaning cycles.

Get a Kitchenaid - it's worth the money.  Consumer Reports is not always
the best source for product testing.

						Tim

    We looked at the GE and the Kitchenaid when we were shopping and
    despite the Consumer's Report rating we didn't think the racks in
    the GE would be easy to load with pots and pans.  There is a big
    hump running down the middle of the bottom rack.  We bought the
    Kitchenaid which has a flat-bottomed bottom rack.  We have no
    complaints at all.  Works like a champ.
    

    My uncle has been a builder for 40 years and I have been involved
    in construction for the last 10.  His advice which has held up was
    to stick with all GE appliances.  
    
    I do have my own preferences:
    
    Dishwasher:  Kitchenaid, any model since you just get more buttons
                 for more money.  I do think that the adjustable top
                 shelf is worth the money.  I have never had to scrape
                 or rinse a dish which i did have to do with a GE.
    
    Stove/Oven/Counter Top:  General Electric.  Their oven design is
                 copied by most all other manufacturers.
    
    Refrigerator:  Amana or GE
    
    Washer/Dryer:  Maytag, they are worth the extra money.  (If price
                   is an issue, then GE or Whirlpool.)

    
    re: .7: Jennair belongs to Maytag, not Whirlpool.
    	    I believe you have the relationship betw Magic Chef and
    	    GE reversed; Magic Chef builds refrigerators for a number
            of name brands (Amana for one, I'm certain), and GE may
   	    be another.
    

    GE builds their own refrigerators. In fact, according to the Wall
    Street Journal, they are investing in a brand new plant, with new
    manufacturing and product technology, despite this being one of
    their 'cash cow' businesses. They've made that decision to head
    off Japanese competition, to increase their profit margins (cut
    costs) and to take advantage of new technologies developed in their
    rework of their Louisville KY dishwasher plant.

    I bought my refrigerator (an Amana) at P.E.Fletcher in Nashua, after
    pricing the same model at Cuomos.  They came within $30 of Cuomos sale
    price, delivered for free, moved the old refrigerator to the basement,
    and are a local firm.
    
    I got one with the freezer on the bottom after it was pointed out
    that you use the refrigerator a lot more than the freezer, so why
    have the ice cubes at eye level?

	- Barry

    I will probably be in the market for a new refrigerator in the 
    near future.  My current one is a side by side monster that can
    hold lots of food and freezes food thoroughly and quickly.  The
    problem with the appliance is that it does not do well in hot
    weather.  If the temperature stays above 90 degrees  for a while,
    the motor shuts down.  Since the refrigerator is 25 years old, I
    think that it warrants being moved to the basement in place of a
    new one.  Incidently, it has a kenmore logo, was purchased
    at SEars and was manufactured by American Motors.
    
    My next refrigerator will have the freezer on the bottom or it
    will be another side by side.  You're right about having the ice
    cubes at eye level.
    
    

    re: .14
    
    You might want to try two things that may make the refrigerator work
    better in the heat before you buy a new one.
    
    Make sure that the coils, wherever they are, are clean.  It's amazing
    how much crap gets on them over the years.  You can vacuum them with a
    brush attachment from a shop vac. 
    
    Try an auxilliary fan (like a muffin fan) blowing on the coils in
    the summer.  Your kitchen will be warmer, but the unit will run
    more efficiently.
    
    -joet            

    i have bought all new "machines" in our house over the last 3 years.
    in each case, perseys in worc. has had great prices. a note here.
    if you don't see something are looking for, ask them. these two
    brothers have been around 30 years and know every distributor in
    new england. i have gotten lines they don't stock and still at a
    great price.
    
    i favor the whirlpool line since they have the trouble line. exactly
    like telephone support in Colorado Springs. they are really helpful.
    i know cause i have a washer that likes to test their skills. i
    am told that mine is but a lemon since everyone else loves theirs.
    
    re. 14  if you buy a new refer, you should look at the new enery
    efficient models. i am not talking about a "super-cpu" model that
    does lots of useless items, but a refer that has a lot thicker walls.
    you can't get as much inside of one, but they use a lot less energy.
    
    john
    

    	My 'fridge hit the skids on Sunday so I now find myself in the
    market for major appliances.  I did a quick check on prices for
    a 22 cu ft whirlpool fridge and found that PERCEY'S and MASS BUYING
    POWER could not be beat.  PERCEY's wanted $644 compared with CUMO's
    $729 and LECHMERE's $800.  PERCEY's knocked off about $40 because
    of the MASS BUYING POWER.  I'm kind of pickey on brand names, I
    stick with Whirlpool, GE or Hotpoint (owned by GE)
    							

      O.K. you're probably sick of whirlpool but I have had a w-pool
    washer and dryer for ~8 years now. My wife does about 6 loads a
    week, my sister (so tight she squeeks) who comes over, does about
    3 loads a week, and my brother-out-law just started coming over
    with his gladbag full of laundry. After all this abuse, these 
    babies are running as good as new. If anything ever goes wrong
    with either one of them, how much should I charge these slouches
    for damages?
                         /BB

    
    
    	Cuomos service is terrible.  They contract it out.  I've
    	been tring for months to get my brand new dishwasher, that
    	hasn't worked since I bought, it fixed.
    
    	Never again.  I'll stick with my local Appliance center that
    	may cost me $30 more but their service is fantastic.
    
    	Price isn't always everything

    SHOPPING FOR NEW APPLIANCES; ELECTRIC STOVE, REFRIGERATOR, DISHWASHER.
    ANY RECOMMENDATIONS, SUGGESTIONS, CAUTIONS ON MAKES OR MODELS. ANY
    INPUT APPRECIATED. ALSO SHOPPING FOR MICROWAVE.

    What's your budget on the appliances?  Do you have a sum total you
    want to spend or a price per appliance?
    
    -al

also try ALIEN::CONSUMER - not sure this is an appropriate topic for 
this file

    I recommend staying away from the combination stove/microwave units.
    I have one from Magic Chef and it hasn't worked out well for a number
    of reasons:
    	1.  Heat from the oven in the bottom warms the microwave unit
    	     causing shutdown and poor reliability.
    	2.  When the microwave unit dies, you sort of have to fix it
    	     or have this big hole in the top of your unit.  The hole
    	     might make a cabinet if you put decent doors on it.
    	3.  Serious design and reliability problems with the Magic Chef
    	     unit, which have cost several times more than a replacement
    	     microwave.
    

WHAT DID YOU SAY?  I COULDN'T HEAR YOU!!  :^)

This question may very well get as good or better response in CONSUMER, but
historically this file has come to be about "Anything you might do or even
think about doing at home."  Perhaps it would be less cumbersome and more useful
if that wasn't so, but that's the way it is, so this question is fine here. 

An indication that this question is fine here is the fact that note 1111.3 
(Appliances) lists over 50 notes on appliances currently in this file.  I'm 
sure there are many comments there that you would find of benefit.

Paul

	Concerning where to buy those units which you
	think you want (features, so on):

	Two recent efforts to buy such leads me to say
	that it was a waste of time and effort to shop
	price.  When all was said and done (price with
	delivery/cash and carry and they dispose of the
	old one/you do it), the bottom line was local
	dealer because I could throw a stone at him if
	the unit broke.  I could save a few bucks 30 or
	40 miles from home if I could do cash and carry;
	however, I would get hit with a disposal charge
	for the old unit.....

	Bill G.

Another interesting thing about kitchen appliances (at least some of them):

I got into a discussion one time with a manager of an appliance store (Percy's 
in Worcester), and after a while I asked him "Bottom line, why do you carry all 
these brands of appliances?  Why don't you choose a couple of lines that you 
think are the best and concentrate on those?"  And he replied:  

"Because basically with most appliances there's very little difference between
brands.  A refridgerator, for example, is a mature product - there's really not
much more you can do to it, and simple things like motors and compressors have
been around so long that most companies make adequate ones.  The reason we
carry so many brands is because almost everyone who comes in here says 'My
mother had a (fill in any brand name here) appliance for 20 years, and I want
one of those'.  It's pretty evenly split between the brands too.  Also, almost
everyone has heard some horror story about another brand, so they DON'T want
that kind, even though the very next person in the store will say 'My mother
had one of those for 20 years...'" 

Paul

  We bought a new refrigerator, stove, and dishwasher this past year.  I
  agree that there are lots of advantages to buying locally from someone
  who will service the unit.  I won't recommend the stove or refrigerator
  brands (though we're quite happy with them) because what you will like is
  pretty much a matter of taste.  We did have one problem with air 
  circulation in the refrigerator -- that's why I agree strongly about 
  buying locally.

  But I will recommend our top-of-the-line In-Sink-Erator (sp?) dishwasher
  because it is really a Kitchen-Aid (one of the best, if not the best in
  the industry).  We got it for about $100 less than the equivalent Kitchen-Aid
  and it even came with chrome push-buttons as opposed to the plastic ones
  on the real Kitchen-Aid.

  JP

    We bought all our appliances (over the last 2-3 years) (fridge,
    washer, dryer, disposal) from TriCity in Salem, MA.  They have 2
    or 3 other stores (and an off-price store for scratched and dented
    merchandise in Lynn), but I don't know where they are.  They have 
    the best prices (cheaper than Cuomo's in NH after MA sales tax!)  
    They delivered to North Andover, which is not real close to Salem.  
    
    When they delivered the new GE washer (my White-Westinghouse died
    a premature death) they would have taken the old corpse for nothing
    but my wife gave the guy $10.
    
    I "done a dumb thing" and got the spring wire from the rubber mouth 
    of the disposal so entangled in the impellor that dynamite couldn't 
    remove it.  We called TriCity, they came quickly, (like the next day, 
    everyone else quoted days to a week later) fixed it for nothing (even 
    though the way I read the warranty I felt I should pay! (stupidity 
    aside)). ;-)
    
    I rate TriCity very highly.  They sell mostly GE equipment.  I have
    had no problems with our GE equipment.  I think Cosumer Reports
    rates GE low in maintenance costs also.
    
    Stan

    
    
    	I have recently purchased appliances and recommend the following:
    
    	Dishwasher  -  Whirlpool, very quiet, does a good job less $$
    		       than kitchen aid
    
    	Washer 	- Maytag  does a great job!
    
    	Dryer  -  Maytag (Gas)  does a great job, the drying sensor really
    		  does work and doesn't over dry your clothes.
    
    	Fridge - Jenn Air, ( yes they make fridges ) nice unit.

    
    	Bought them all at Andy Moss in Haverhill, an old very established
    	family owned shop.  Good price, and fantastic service.  They
        deliver and setup when it's convient for you, not for them,
        even on Saturdays!

    
    
    	Tony

    I just bought a GE stove and a Sharp Carousel microwave that replaces
    the range hood from Natick Appliance (Natick, MA).  I used Mass
    Buying Power which is available to DEC employees.  You can call
    them at (617) 782-7131, tell them what you're looking for, and they
    will send you some paperwork with the name of a participating dealer.
    Natick Appliance charged 5% over wholesale, delivered everything
    for $20, delivered on the HOUR that we had arranged, and took the
    old stove for $15.  Highly recommend them.
    
    Bob

    I bought a fridge and range for a new house a couple of years ago
    at Sundeens in Manchester.  We already had a Sears uwave (large,
    fully featured), the house came with a GE Potscrubbbbbbber Dishwasher,
    and I bought a Sears garbage disposal.
    
    The fridge is the big Amanna (sp)(didn't get the optional ice maker)
    and the range is a Westinghouse with self-cleaning (not continuous
    cleaning) oven, with the traditional coil elements.  We looked at
    a lot of ranges and found that if you want digital clocks, fancier
    heating elements, and stuff the prices go up pretty quick.  As far
    as the fridge went, we went strickly by freezer size. (we've had
    Amanna's before and had real good luck).  The range was selected
    strickly by price.  The store also gave me a discount for buying
    more than one appliance from them.  
    
    I'm also a Sears fan so washer and dryer are from them.  
    
    I'm real impressed with the GE dishwasher that the builder put in.
    It doesn't have a ton of fancy features, but it really does the
    job.  We've found that if you really fill it with dishes, glasses,
    and flatware (no pots and pans), and run it on the light load cycle,
    that everything comes out real clean.  You can also shut off the
    heat drying and save some $'s.  
    
    The Sears garbage disposal is not their biggest, but it does the
    job and it only jams when dish towels are fed into it.
    
    The Sears uwave is large and pretty powerful.  We've NEVER used
    all the fancy features, like preprogammed recipes, delay start,
    and stuff like that.  The automatic defrost feature does get alot
    of use.  You just select the type of food you are trying to defrost,
    then enter the weight, and it figures out how long and how hard
    to zap it so that the food doesn't start to cook.
    
    Anyway, bottom line, if you buy your stuff from an appliance store,
    be sure to ask for a discount.  Don't let them add up the individual
    prices and charge you that ammount.
    
    Good luck!
    One of the other Cote's
    

    
    PERSONALLY EVERY APPLIANCE I HAVE IN MY HOUSE IS WHIRLPOOL EXCEPT
    FOR THE SHARP MICROWAVE.  THEY ARE ALL ONLY 3 YEARS OLD AND I HAVE
    NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANYTHING.
    A FRIEND OF MINE HAS AN APPLIANCE BUSINESS IN N.H. AND HE SELLS
    MAYTAG, WHIRLPOOL, SHARP, GIBSON, AND ONE OTHER THAT SLIPS MY MIND.
    
    IF YOU ASKED HIM AND HE WOULD BE HONEST WITH YOU, MAYTAG MAKES THE
    BEST WASHER/DRYER(BUT IS EXPENSIVE), SHARP MAKES THE BEST MICROWAVE
    AND WHIRLPOOL MAKE VERY GOOD STOVES,REFRIGERATORS AND DISHWASHERS.
    
    THIS IS ONLY ONE PERSON'S OPINION BUT I AGREED WITH HIM AND BOUGHT
    ALL MY STUFF FROM HIM.  ALSO BECAUSE I KNEW THE SERVICE WILL BE
    THERE IF ANYTHING DOES GO WRONG.
    
    THANKS
    DON
    

    
    I ALSO THINK THAT ANY CONTINUOUS CLEAN OVEN IS A WASTE OF MONEY
    AND I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE THAT WORKS.
    
    DON
    
    

    Also note that there are only a few companies left in the business,
    keeping alive lots of brand names.  See the refrigerator review
    in the March, 1988 Consumer Reports for the list of who owns whom.
    
    Summary:  White-Consolidated (White-Westinghouse, Tappan, Frigidaire,
    Kelvinator Magic Chef[?]) is almost always at the bottom of everyone's 
    list, though CU rated their better dishwashers pretty highly.  Raytheon
    (Amana, Caloric, Speed Queen) is pretty good, as is Whirlpool and
    GE.  But it varies item by item...
    
    Per the salesman at Warrendale Appliance in Waltham (cheap!),
    In-Sink-Erator is owned by Emerson Electric.  Their dishwasher factory
    used to own Kitchen Aid, but KA is now owned by someone else (Maytag?).
    BTW, Jenn-Air is also Maytag, and their fridge was the same as the
    other Maytag brands but a lot more expensive!

    re .13
    
    You can come over and see our self-cleaning oven work anytime. 
    The wife wouldn't consider anything but when we were shopping and
    it's worked out well.
    
    I believe it's a Caloric gas with microwave on top.  We bought it
    at Lechemere in Manchester N.H. in '84.  ?? $1200 ??  approx.

    Re .15
    
    The comment in .13 addressed CONTINUOUS cleaning ovens - not
    self cleaning....big difference.

    re.15 and re.13
    
    I just wanted to point out there is a difference between a self
    cleaning oven and a continuous cleaning oven.  I'm not real sure
    of what the difference are (the only self cleaning thing in our
    house seems to be people!!!) but when I daydream of the day when
    I own a NEW stove I always daydream self-cleaning!!!
    
    I believe that a self cleaning oven has to be set at a certain
    temperature and put into a self cleaning mode.  I believe that
    a continuous cleaning oven supposedly "self cleans" with each use
    somehow.  Again I may be all wrong, but I'm sure that someone out
    there in notes land will correct me if I am, and rightly so!
    
    For what it's worth......the word from Mom is go with self cleaning,
    forget continuous cleaning.  Anyone care to comment?
    
    Kathy
         

    Addendum to .14
    
    Kitchenaid is now owned by Whirlpool.  The only difference in the
    two product lines is that Kitchenaid costs about 25-30% more for
    the identical product with a different name plate.  The product
    quality is very good - excellent, even - but why pay an extra 25%?
    
    pbm
    

Self-clean=  oven goes through special cycle where it heats up to
7-800 degrees and turns most grime to ash.  When its done, you wipe
out the ash.  These are usually electric ovens.  I understand there
are gas ovens now that also do this. The cycle actually uses little
energy.  One problem, if you get addicted and do this every day, I
have seen ovens 'wear out' (a bow in the lower surface) after a few
years. 

Continuous clean= due to a 'special surface' on the inside of the 
oven, the normal heat of the oven is supposed to disintegrate the 
grime over time somehow.  I've never seen one live up to its 
expectations, and because of the special surface, you can't use an 
oven cleaner.  These are usually (always?) gas ovens, and were gas's 
answer to self-clean before they figured out how to offer self-clean.
I think they're the worst of both worlds, as they're never really
clean. 

I recently replaced my cont-clean gas oven with a GE self-clean 
electric, couldn't be happier.

/j

RE: .6          

>"Because basically with most appliances there's very little difference between
>brands.  A refridgerator, for example, is a mature product - there's really not
>much more you can do to it, and simple things like motors and compressors have
>been around so long that most companies make adequate ones.  The reason we
>carry so many brands is because almost everyone who comes in here says 'My
>mother had a (fill in any brand name here) appliance for 20 years, and I want
>one of those'.  It's pretty evenly split between the brands too.  Also, almost
>everyone has heard some horror story about another brand, so they DON'T want
>that kind, even though the very next person in the store will say 'My mother
>had one of those for 20 years...'" 

I totally disagree.  A mature appliance means that one *could* build it
well if one wanted to.  But in reality, each mfr is trying to shave off
more and more on cost.  CU's frequency of repair reports are a good
starting point.  The next thing is to look at who has bought whom (see
below).  Some companies, like White Co., apparently buy good-name brands
and squeeze them to death.  Our Frigidaire (White Co.) is clearly not
the same brand GM used to make.  A month does not go buy when some shelf
or door part does not break or come undone.  This is not something you
could classify as a lemon (we had two Frigidaire lemons that could not
reach 0� in the freezer before they delivered the one we kept). It is
bad design of the refrigerator with plastic parts where other brands use
metal.  Our Amana has had zero problems over a longer period of time. 

And who says that these appliances are mature when there have been so 
many changes to improve energy.  There is only so much you can do with 
an extra inch of insulation.  Then you have to work on more efficient 
compressors (that also don't break down).  

RE: .14         

>    Also note that there are only a few companies left in the business,
>    keeping alive lots of brand names.  See the refrigerator review
>    in the March, 1988 Consumer Reports for the list of who owns whom.

There's more to it than CU listed.  Here's what I know so far:

General Electric   Maytag            Whirlpool
      |              |                 |
   Hotpoint          +-Admiral         +-Kitchenaid
                     +-Jenn-Air        +-Chambers
                     +-Magic Chef      +-Roper (still in process)
                     +-Montgomery Ward +-Sears

White Co.            Raytheon
    |                |
    +-Frigidaire     +-Amana
    +-Gibson         +-Caloric
    +-Kelvinator     +-Modern Maid (I think)
    +-Tappan
    +-Westinghouse

I can't recall who bought Thermador.  Insinkerator (or whoever owns
them) may simply buy dishwashers from Kitchenaid (Whirlpool). The
Raytheon owned companies say so on the back of their brochures.
Raytheon used to do some of what White is known for, but recently they
seem to have gotten their act together due to bad experiences with
Caloric (and good ones with Amana). 

RE: .18

>    Kitchenaid is now owned by Whirlpool.  The only difference in the
>    two product lines is that Kitchenaid costs about 25-30% more for
>    the identical product with a different name plate.  The product
>    quality is very good - excellent, even - but why pay an extra 25%?

I disagree.  Whirlpool has decided to make Kitchenaid their top of the 
line.  According to CU, they are putting very good extra features on those 
units.  Whirlpool has always been a good brand and so has Kitchenaid.  
I have seen Whirlpool's new Kitchenaid products and they are *not* identical 
to the ones with the Whirlpool name plate.  I have seen the prices as 
close as 15%.

Alex

    My 10-year-old KitchenAid mixer is, in my opinion, the finest piece of
    consumer machinery available.  So, when I bought my Garbage Crusher
    a couple of years ago, I went with KitchenAid.  This was just when
    they had been bought by Whirlpool, so I can't tell who actually
    made my unit and to what specs, but it, too, is overbuilt.
    
    -joet 

    I will second that opinion for KitchenAid mixers. My wife is using
    my grandmothers 1926 mixer. It has never been to the shop and only
    has been repainted several times. The receipt was in the manual
    and in 1926 it cost $230.00 for a complete system. The price hasn't
    gone down much.
    
    I'd also like to second Amana refrigerators. They are the most
    ergonomic and energy efficient. The 22 cubic foot model we bought
    uses as much electricity as a 14 cubic foot Whirlpool.
    
    Tim
    

    RE: .22
    
>    has been repainted several times. The receipt was in the manual
>    and in 1926 it cost $230.00 for a complete system. The price hasn't
>    gone down much.

	Wow!  $230 is a lot dough for a mixer TODAY.  It actually cost
    $230 in 1926?  Weren't cars selling for a little more than that?
    (too young to know...)  What is this "mixer" made of and what "system"
    does it have.  It must do everything except clean the bathroom floor...
    
    Phil

GE clothes washer  bought in 1969 !!.  Replaced the timer in 1978 and the motor
in 1980.  Motor went again in 1988 so replaced it with another GE.

Sears 11KBTU air conditioner  in  1969  (used  most  evenings and during family
dinners during the summer).  Only replace filters.

GE electric dryer in 1972 - replaced the idler wheel in 1988.

Amanna refrigerator purchased in 1974 - defroster had to be replaced in 1986, I
replaced the two door gaskets in 1988.

Gas Company installed  water  heater  (Orion,  I think) in 1974.  Went with Gas
Company due to naive  thinking  that  it would be better.  Sheesh.  It outlived
the 5 year warranty by  a  couple of years.  Replaced it with a cheap unknown 5
year model from Grossman's in 1980 - no problems.

Lennox FHA Gas furnace in 1976 - repaired gas valve 1987.

KitchenAid dishwasher bought in 1980 - I replaced the door gasket in 1988.

Sears gas stove in 1980.    Timer  just  went  out.   Since a replacement costs
$39.00 for parts, it will likely stay out.

Sears trash  compactor  in  1980 - no problems (other than getting teenagers to
empty trash into it).

MonkeyWards Microwave in 1984 - no problems.

    
    re .23
    
    Like I said $230 for a COMPLETE system. This thing must have 50
    attachments. And the good thing is they are still compatible with
    the mixers they make today. It has everything from ice cream maker
    to coffee grinder to some things that we don't know what they are.
    
    Tim
    

    We are building a cabin about 30 miles west of Portland,Maine. 
    Any suggestions on where to purchase appliances would be appreciated.

    My cu.ft Kenmore frig. quit on me yesterday. I'm now looking for
    a replacement. This time will be a bigger one, may be 20 cu ft.
    I don't know if I should go with the one door or the side-by-side
    doors. any pros and cons on the side-by-side models ?
    

    I think that discussion already took place in this file.
    You might try note 1111 for a start and do some searches...
    
    another_noter_acting_like_a_moderator_just_for_kicks 

    Special Problem (I think):
    
    The problem is somple enough. I'd like to move the clothes washing
    machine from the bathroom to a backroom. 
    
    I'd also like to install FHW Heat to this same backroom, which woild
    also run to an currently unused upstairs back bedroom. 
    
    The "problem" is that this first backroom is built "on grade", which is
    adjacent to the kitchen (which is also built "on grade"). 
    
    For the unitiated, on grade means that there is no basement nor any
    crawl space. 
    
    My plan (which I think is brilliant), which may be flawed, is to run
    flexible "duct" of some type from the existing cellar, beneath the
    kitchen floor, to a convenient location under the backroom. 
    
    This duct would then contain the fllexible copper water pipes for the
    FHW, cold water for the Washer, and the sewarage pipe for the waste
    from the washing machine, and any "wires" necessary for additional
    (future) electrical expansion. 
    
    The theory is that with a minimal amount of heat to maintain a 50' temp
    in the backroom, would keep the cold water pipe from freezing in
    winter. The overall purpose would be to establish a "mud room" in this
    backroom. 
    
    The future possibility would be a very small lavatory and toilet.
    
    Hot water could be provided  by an auxiliary water heater or
    demand_type water heater.
    
    Comments, suggestions ? Sound reasonable ?
    
    Bob
    
    

    Sounds as if it would work with one BIG PROBLEM. In some states
    (Mass for sure) you can not run water pipes and electrical lines
    in the same tubing. In order for your case to work you would need to
    run you electrical service seperate.
    
    JJ

This looks like as good a note as any...

Anyone have opinions (did I really ask that?  8^)  about a Magic Chef
gas stove with sealed burners?

Bob

    A gas stove with sealed burners?  I can believe that they exist,
    but doesn't that defeat one of the advantages of gas, which is the
    ability to fine tune the setting by examining the flame?
    
    If you're concerned about cleaning the burners, you should be able
    to get porcelain drip pans, which can go into the oven during it's
    self cleaning cycle.
    
       Gary

      The burners aren't sealed  - it's the drip ring around them. The
    edges of the drip ring slant up slightly and fit tightly against
    the burner. This is supposed to make the stove look better (no gap
    where you can see down into the stove) and it should be easier to
    clean since drippings can't get under the top.
      
      I like the looks and the idea of sealed burners, but I'm not
    impressed with the quality of Magic Chef.

   					Kenny

re: .-1

Where is the quality lacking on the Magic Chef?   Its the brand that was
recommended to us... have you had problems with Magic Chef?

Bob

     I don't mean to imply that Magic Chef is a terrible stove, I simply
    think that it could be better (maybe alot). We have a Magic Chef
    stove and I think it is competently but cheaply made. It is wearing
    out (after ~8 years) when we have had other stoves last MUCH longer.
    It does not hold oven temp well, the self clean fuction doesn't
    work anymore, and seems to be falling apart. I think Tappan, Whirlpool,
    KitchenAid, JennAire are all better just to name a few. Yea, any
    of those MAY cost more, but think of how often and for how many
    years you use your stove. Averaged out to cost/use the difference
    is negligible and a cheaper stove could actually cost MORE in the
    long run due to failed parts, earlier replacement, burned food (don't
    laugh, an oven that doesn't hold temp well can cause alot of food
    to be burned).
    
      Like I said I'm just not impressed with Magic Chef... Also from
    personal expeience - stay away from Glenwood and it's clone Caloric.
    These are terrible, trouble-prone stoves. 

    
    					Kenny

    Not to wander toward a "consumer note", but I have to add one thing
    about Magic Chef ranges.
    
    I have a 3-year-old Magic Chef range with cast-iron "Euro-burners"
    and it is a piece of junk. Everything works right, we keep it very
    clean, but there is no level spot on this stove/oven. Try to sautee
    and oils run to one side of the pan. Every burner is aligned
    differently, so levelling will only pull one into square, with the
    other three out. Same goes for the oven. My wife's cakes (baked
    ones ;^)  ) always come out lop-sided. She tries so hard to achieve
    perfection, only to come out with cakes that look like they were
    baked on a campfire by the boy scouts! I've spent hours bending
    racks (one side of a rack can be level, but other areas of the same
    rack are not) only end up with frustration. This problem is serious,
    I know of no solution except replacement. Of course, if you like
    your cakes leaning to one side, it's no problem. 
    
    I'm glad I could point out something that could easily be overlooked,
    and also to back up Kenny's statement as to the questionable quality
    of Magic Chef Stoves.
    
    Mike

    re .31
    
      We have the same problem with our Magic Chef; it's way out of
    level and it doesn't seem possible to make it right. I tried a bunch
    of stuff but it is still out of level SOMEWHERE. My wife also gets
    really upset when the cakes or pies come out so uneven due to the
    sloped racks in the oven. (What's really strange is they LOOK ok)
      That stove is GONE very soon!
    
    					Kenny

    I never owned a Magic Chef but know one person who did and parts of it
    started to fall off after a couple of years.  I owned a Tappan and was
    also NOT impressed with the quality.  Had to replace it after about 5
    years.  Also had to replace the Tappan garbage disposal unit in the
    same time frame.  Now have a Frigidaire and it has been very reliable.
    The self cleaning oven is great!  It's electric however and therefore
    harder to control the top burner temps. 

    Just bought an AMANA Refridge for my new home.  The sales folks
    were pushing the extended warranty plan suggesting that "they just
    don't make them like they used to" and that "you can only get
    parts from AMANA and they'll likely not sell them to John Q Public
    directly."
    
    Any thoughts on extended warranties for new refridgerators and if
    parts are really hard to come by in the Southern NH area?

    I don't know about parts availability, but it's obvious that the sales
    people are doing a real good job of coming up with new and exciting
    ways to sell warranties.
    
    I would have been tempted to tell the sales folk that if they don't
    make them like they used to, and you can't get parts yourself, then
    perhaps you'd be better off with another brand that is made like they
    used to at another store that can get parts.
    
       Gary

I wonder what the folks at AMANA would have to say about that... 8^)

Bob

I have had our Amana since 1974.  A heater  element  that  keeps  moisture down
needed replacement about 5 years or so ago.  The first  appliance  repair  shop
that  answered  the phone got the business;  they had no problems  getting  the
part.   I replaced the door gaskets myself last year;  both were  in  stock  at
Fletchers in Nashua.

Whoever  is telling you that you can get parts only from Amana is correct -  as
far as they go.  What they do not tell you is that the Amana parts distributors
are scattered everywhere and you seldom need to wait more than a couple of days
for delivery if the local Amana recommended repair shop is out of stock.

How long is the extended warranty for and how  much does it cost?  In our case,
at least, I doubt if it would have been a good buy.

    
     AMANA has 4 parts distribution centers in MASS and there are many
    dealers that carry their parts. I would asume that there are also
    parts distribution centers in N.H. If you can't find them or need
    parts call AMANA at 414-748-3121 and as for customer services and
    tell them what you need or for help on a problem. 
    
      I consider AMANA products to be some of the best on the market
    I've got a speed queen washer and dryer, if they stand up in coin
    operated places they have to be good, I also have and AMANA stove
    and Refridge, and haven't had any problems except regular maint.
    I also worked for Raytheon their parent company for many years
    and saw the quality that went into their products at the factories.
     
     

    The warranty (offered by our pals at Lechmere) is $99 for a total
    of four years (the first year is the mfgs limited warranty.  Lechmere
    builds on the limited warranty for the first year and then adds
    on another 3 years full warranty.......thus 4 years total)
    
    I'm told that I'm not committed to the warranty and although I've
    already written the check, I can back out with 100% refund within
    30 days or so....
    
    You've basically firmed up my original concerns.  I know it's a
    sales ploy given the fact that the dealer is on 100% commission.
    Such a warranty certainly doesn't hurt his pocket...
    
    If the parts are there I have NO problems fixing the thing myself
    if needed.  I suspect all the problems if any will start on day
    1 year 5 anyway...
    
    thanks for the input..
    
    jr

    American Express has [had?] a deal in which they doubled the warranty
    of any product bought with their credit card up to a maximum of
    one extra year.  There was no charge although you had to go through
    some paperwork.
    
    You might want to take advantage of this deal if it's still in effect.
    
    	Marlene

    Lechmere's gave me this same line when I bought a VCR last month.
    I told them (I IS AN ENGINEER) and can fix it my self; besides don't
    you have any confidence in your products?  His response was that
    I would not be able to buy replacement parts myself.  pure bull
    if you ask me.  (Lechmere's has good sale prices but there salesmen
    are getting on my nerves!)
    
    -JFK-

>
>    I would not be able to buy replacement parts myself.  pure bull
>    if you ask me.  (Lechmere's has good sale prices but there salesmen
>    are getting on my nerves!)
>    
>    -JFK-



Unfortunately, replacement parts are hard to obtain. My daughter jammed
the tape carrier on my Toshiba a couple of years ago. (broken plastic gears).
Many phone calls later and a "3" month delivery wait, I was able to do repairs.
BTW, the factory repair manual (schematics) was going to cost about a third of the
unit purchase price. And the .20 c plastic gear set cost $30.


Ross

    re: .31
    
    Whaddaya think DEC makes most of its profit on?  Service Contracts
    for our (generally reliable) hardware!!

    Manufacturers have discovered the simple truth that there are low
    margins in building but huge margins in insurance!!

    	From my old days as a Radio/TV serviceman, we would get a $100.00
    commission on a $300.00 service contract if we could sell it on
    a new set.  The service contracts were better income than the sales
    and repairs of other sets.  ERGO, the commission for selling one
    with a new set.  This was ONLY for transistor type sets (back in
    the ancient days of tube sets).  If the customer bought a tube type
    set, no contract for extended warranty would be written.  So, if
    they are pushing the extended warranties, they ARE making LOTS on
    them.

    Wow, talk about timeliness.  My wife and I were just looking at
    that Magic Chef last week.  She was impressed with the sealed burners.
    
    However, this morning we were looking at a Consumers Buyers Guide,
    1988.  Magic Chef was rated the lowest.  Not that that means anything
    in particular, but it does give a hint.  Couple that with the comments
    in here, and we will definitely be looking for another brand.
    
    Does anyone know of another brand that has the sealed burners?
    
    Lee

We bought a Jenn-Air 3 years ago with sealed burners and have been very happy

    I am looking for a slide-in down-draft gas range .... any suggestions?

    I now have an old Amana Radarange (huge by today's standards).

    I want to replace it with an over the stove microwave/exhaust fan.  (I
    actually won't be using the exhaust fan much since the stove is a slide
    in Jennair down draft gas range.  (Yo .-1 hear that?)
    
    My preferences are:
    
	No turntable, they waste too much space...my Amana uses a fan to
    		scatter the waves instead...pretty effective
	Plastic cavity
	as close to 700 watt as possible
	1 cu ft PLUS (((( or minus ))))
	reliable
    
    Although I am flexible.  I've looked at the combo units (convection),
    and the  cavity on most seems really small compared to the size of the
    oven unit.  Also, my stove will have a convection oven, so I don't
    really need a second (unless there is a micro combo that has a big
    interior).

					Thanks
						-JP

Well, my parents have a Litton over the stove microwave with a light and an
exhaust fan.  It hasn't had a single problem in 10 years other than  a couple
light bulbs burning out.  Its quite large, no carosel and a microwave fan to
scatter the the waves.  (I was told that Litton invented the microwave fan
thing).  I don't know how many watts.   It has a metal casing on the bottom
with the light and the fan. The door and touch-pad buttons are plastic and easy
to clean.

Chris

    an electrical question:
    
    in the last week or so, I've had 3 appliances that have gone
    dead, apparantly due to electrical problems.  This morning,
    the VCR came on for a second, then went dead. My shaver went
    dead last week. My PC monitor often won't come on when turned
    on...it takes a few tries before it comes on.
    
    We had some electrical work done 9 months ago, relating
    to a new kitchen, and seemingly unrelated to the rooms in
    which these things occurred.
    
    The obvious thing I thought of was a spike in the electrical
    current, causing this machines to go on the fritz.  Can
    anybody enlighten me more on what might be causing it?
    What can I do?
    
    thanks
    

    If your smoke alarms are battery operated, then there's nothing
    to worry about.

    My father was having problems with his (Macintosh) computer
    for several weeks a while back.... every once in a while it would
    come up with an error message or simply blink off.  Usually it
    would restart after one or two tries...
    
    Then the freezer died - and in "disecting" it, he figured out that
    the compressor motor (electric) had fried itself....
    
    Calling an electrician in was the next step.  After several tries,
    and a convenient occurence of the computer shutting down, the problem
    was figured out.  It seems the power lines coming IN to the house
    (from the pole to the side of the house) were ALUMINUM, from a few
    years ago when copper was so expensive.  And, as aluminum does,
    it had oxidized in the weather...   when the wind shifted the
    power lines "just right", patches of oxide would make the
    resistance at one junction much higher.  We would get "brownout"
    problems, but only in OUR house!  The computer would decide NOT
    to run on that electricity.... the freezer motor would labor
    on an inadequate supply, etc. etc.....
    
    Does the house in question have aluminum wiring anywhere in there?
    Would an electrician please check things out at various places
    in the house...??
    
    				- ED B. -
    

    
    I think you'll find MOST lines from the pole to the house and the
    service entrance cable (meter to the breaker box) are aluminum.  The
    problems with aluminum cable were when it was used from the breaker to
    outlets and switches.  They did not use anti-oxidant paste there and
    the copper-aluminum disimilar metal junction caused a lot of problems.
    
    You may have a problem with this wire due to oxidation but don't blame
    it on aluminum wire.  Blame it on improper installation or something
    peculiar to the installation.  I've got alum from the pole, meter to
    the box, and from a breaker to a sub-panel in the garage with no
    problems.  To do that in copper would be 3-5 times as much $ and not
    justifiable.
    
    Aluminum cable is just fine when used properly.

    
    
    Recently, my daughter comae back from an extended stay in Germany.
    She brought back an appliance that a type of cooker that prepares
    food in a manner "somewhat" similar to a fondue, however, the heat
    source is an electric element.  The element is roughly equivalent
    to the elements found on the top of electric stoves.  I advised
    her that it would not work in the US because of the fundamental
    differences in current/voltage etc.  However, I thought that it
    might be worthwhile to ask if it could be made to work on 110/60
    with the existing element.  I really don't want to run a 220 line
    just for the occassional use of this appliance.  Any ideas?
    
    
    Thanks
    
    
    Kent

No - forget it.  The element will heat to half its intended power on 110V,
and you don't want to know how much a voltage inverter that will handle
the power will cost.  If you can put a 240V plug on it you can use it in
a 240V outlet, the 50Hz/60Hz won't matter.

				Steve

Just unplug the dryer and plug in the cooker when you want to use it...

Dave

  In addition to using the 220V current in your house, there are three
  more things you can do. One is to buy a transformer. The second is to
  try to re-wire the appliance. The third is to do just replace the plug
  and hope that the heating element is controlled by a thermostat and
  that it will reach its intended operating temperature (more slowly) on
  US 110V.

  Some stores sell large step-down transformers for people who move to
  Europe with their US appliances. These transformers are fairly heavy
  and are designed for large appliances (they handle 1000W or more).
  They cost around $100 and up, depending on the power rating and where
  you buy them. They can be wired to step the voltage up rather than
  down, and will do the job nicely (assuming you know how to do this
  safely). I don't know where to recommend to buy these, though, because
  we bought ours in Europe (where they were cheaper). A decent
  electrical supply store might have them, or maybe some other readers
  might know. Make sure you get one which is rated high enough for your
  appliance, plus a good safety margin (at least 20%). That is, don't
  get a 1000W transformer for a 1000W appliance.

  Rewiring the appliance is possible on appliances which have an even
  number of heating elements of equal resistance wired in series. Many
  European toasters and toaster-ovens do. If this is the case with
  yours, then (again, if you know how to do this safely), the elements
  can be wired in parallel to operate correctly on US voltage. The odds
  are against this being possible, though.

  Finally, many appliances with heating elements are controlled by a
  thermostat, and will operate correctly on a very wide range of
  voltages, though they will heat up much more slowly on 110V (at which
  they're actually running at 1/4 the power). This is the least
  expensive and safest option for you to try. Just replace the plug with
  a decent 110V plug, plug 'er in, and see what happens. If it works,
  your problem is solved.

  If that doesn't work, as a second option I'd recommend going for the
  transformer, because it's probable that your appliance can't be
  rewired. Just make sure you know what you're doing (or can find
  someone who does) before you attempt this, because while it will work
  fine, most transformers are intended to be wired in the "other"
  direction, and a mistake could cause a fire or electrocute somebody.

  Ultimately, as others have correctly suggested, the best arrangement
  is to install some 220V wiring. It probably wouldn't cost much more
  than a good transformer, and it would be much safer and more reliable.
  We've done all four of the methods described here, and this last is by
  far the best.

    
    
    
    Thanks for the info.  I will replace the plug and see how it works.
    I'll put a reply in here to let you know how it comes out.
    
    Thanks again.
    
    
    Kent
    

    
    
     You mighht want to take the appliance to an appliance repair shop if
    the other5 methods don't workk or aren't possible/feasable.
    
    See if you can get a 110v heating element that will fit- it may be the
    sensible solution ($100 for a transormer is probabbly worth more than
    the appliance)
    
    Dick
    

    
    
>>    Note 3926.1               220/50 appliance on 110/60???                   1 of 5
>>QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent"       6 lines  13-AUG-1990 16:20
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>No - forget it.  The element will heat to half its intended power on 110V,

    
    Wattage is = to Voltage^2/Resistance.
    
    If you  halve  the  voltage the power is reduced to 1/4, not 1/2 of the
    original.
    
    In any case,  I have 2 appliances that were designed for 240V 50Hz.
    
    The first, a tea kettle, I ran a 240 Volt line.
    
    The second, a sewing machine, I use a transformer.
    
    The tea kettle  works fine;  the sewing machine runs slower than it did
    on 50Hz, but it's still Ok.
    
    And if you decide  to  use  a transformer, I happen to have a spare one
    that is rated for 15 Amps that I would like to sell.
    
    gjd
    

I've got an old fridge that I was thinking about getting rid of via a
for sale ad. It's one of those 1930/1940s-ish things with the turret
on top. The coolant is sulfur dioxide, I think. Something with sulfur,
anyway.

The fridge still works. How safe is it?

    I would worry about the door,not the chemical. Those type doors have
    "trapped" children inside in the past....mainly when disposed of.
    
    Afterall,the SO2 doesn't harm the ozone layer!
    
    Marc H.

re .1
I wasn't going to trash it - it's too interesting looking. If I did throw
it out, I'd certainly remove the door.




This reminds me of the guy down the street. He removed the magnetically
latched door from a fridge and threw it away one week and then the rest
of the thing the next week. Gotta give him credit for trying to do right
but kids don't get caught in magnetically latched doors. I think that's
one of the reasons they were adopted.

Sulfur Dioxide, if that's indeed what it has, is the gas which gives
rotten egs their smell.  Released into the atmosphere, it can combine
with water vapor to form sulfuric acid.  This is how acid rain is formed.

I wouldn't be worried about the amount in a single old refrigerator,
though.

As for selling it, you'd be better off if you could find someone interested
in antique appliances.  I doubt anyone would seriously consider it
otherwise.

			Steve

>I doubt anyone would seriously consider it otherwise.

This thing is clearly in the novelty category. If it wasn't in the way,
I would certainly keep it. I may keep it anyway.

For those not familiar with the model I'm talking about, it stands on
four legs about 12-14" high. There is a box containing 2 wire shelves
and a door fastened with a huge spring-loaded latch. I doubt if the
capacity exceeds 12 cu ft. The compressor is located in the center of
a round turret-like thing attached to the top of the box. The outer
portions of the turret are the cooling fins. It stands slightly over
5 feet high all told.

It was in the house when we moved in. It was "built in" to this really
rude wooden thing in the back corner of the basement as kind of a bar
fridge. Just to place things, the sink to this bar dumped to a plastic
trash can placed below. The entire area has since been demolished (an
understatement) and converted into an apartment. It was the only piece
we kept from all that was there although I must admit I did want the
mangle and kept it for a while.

The only thing in it was half a bottle of Mother Goldstein's wine. It's
still in there.

Mickey.

    Re: 4327.3
    
    Actually.....rotten eggs is hydrogen sulfide(H2S)...small nit.
    
    Marc H.

Re: .5

Hmm, you're right.  And that's what combines with oxygen to form
sulfuric acid.  So what about sulfur dioxide?

			Steve

re .6:

Sulfur dioxide is what combines with oxygen and water vapor to form
sulfuric acid.  Sulfur dioxide smells really bad (and is bad for you)
but doesn't smell like rotten eggs.  It's the smell of burning sulfur.

-Mike

Do I remember any chemistry?

sulfuric acid      H2SO4
sulfur dioxide     SO4
hydrogen sulfide   H2S
liquid water       H2 + O     ions?

I suspect you can make sulfuric acid out of both of them.

2(S04) + 2(H2 + O) => S(H2S04) + O2
H2S + 2(O2) => H2SO4

One of 'em is a reduction and the other an oxidation --- or do they mean the
same thing?

Don't bother correcting this - it ain't worth it. Besides, I just wanted
to find out if anybody knew of any serious reasons to be concerned about
the fridge.


Mickey.

    Here lies the body of Simeon Gore
    alas, poor Simeon is no more
    what he thought was H2O
    
    was H2SO4
    

re .8:

Sulfur Dioxide is SO2 not SO4.  It picks up half an O2 + H2O to become
H2SO4.

H2S probably reacts with oxygen to form SO2 + H2O.  If so, it will also,
indirectly, form sulfuric acid.

-Mike

Sulfur dioxide (SO2) combines directly with water (H2O) to form H2SO3,
otherwise known as sulfurous acid (not very common).  I suspect that
you also need the
O2 from the atmosphere to form sulfuric acid (H2SO4), and I'd venture a guess
that this is an easy oxidation reaction.

Sulfur trioxide (SO3) is even more vicious stuff -- a dense, white gas.  I
remember making it once in high school chem lab, under a hood.  It combines
(effectively dissolves) directly in water to form sulfuric acid.

   Gary

As long as we're taking the note down a rathole, I thought
I'd step in and mention that kids DO get trapped and die in 
refrigerators with magneticly sealed doors.  Part of the 
problem is that inside a fridge you don't have the same
mechanical advantages as outside, and part of the problem is
that a kid hiding/playing in a fridge doesn't know he's in
trouble until it's just about too late.

>>>==>PStJTT

Try contacting the manufacturer -- they may be interested (if they're still in
business).  A year or so ago was Kelvinator's xth anniversary, and they were
offering to replace all your kitchen appliances if you had the oldest working
Kelvinator 'fridge in your sales district.

								-- Chuck Newman

    Re: .11
    
    You are correct. SO2 first forms H2SO3. That will,in turn,react with 
    H2O to form,lastly,H2SO4.
    
    Sure which we could make a subscript 2...
    
    Marc H.

    Wait... WHA... Huh...Where am I???
    
    I thought I logged on to HOMEWORK???
    
    Where the hell did this Scientific Chemistry notesfile come from???
    
    I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone
    
    *8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...*8�)...

Re: .15

Given that the moderators of HOME_WOERK jump on a new "how do I cleam my 
paintbrush?" in about a millisecond, I'm sure this thread could not have
nit-picked its way through so many replies if it weren't HOME_WORK related
somehow.

Consider the serial killer on a budget who wants to make his/her own H2SO4 for 
the body dissolving pit in the basement. Now some will probably say it's cheaper 
to buy it at SPAGS, next to the quicklime display over by the victim shredders, 
and others will say it's better for the environment to go the Sweeney Todd
route and recycle the victims, but if he happens to have an old hydrogen 
sulfide fridge in the barn, this is just the kind of handy household tip that 
makes this notesfile so handy.  

I'm sure others can think of reasons a homeowner might need to know how to 
make their own H2SO4 out of items commonly found around the home as well.

>>>==>PStJTT

    Re .-1
    
    >>>I'm sure others can think of reasons a homeowner might need to know how
    to
    >>>make their own H2SO4 out of items commonly found around the home as
    well.
    
    
    I can think of one right off the top of my head.  Suppose I want to
    blast out a stump and the local dynamite shop is closed.  Well,
    I can go to the local drugstore and buy some glycerine, use the
    the DIY recipe for making sulphuric acid, and then...  oops,
    does anyone have a DIY recipe for Nitric acid? Can't make nitro-
    glycerine without it. ;^)

    
    Hi,
    
    I'm considering making a large appliance purchase at Hunter Appliances
    of Littleton.  Has anyone had any positive or negative experiences
    with them that they could share?  Any comments on their service?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    - Doug

    Well, we didn't buy our washer and dryers there but they did come out
    on a warranty call and were very accomodating and nice. They explained
    what was causing the problem we called on and we were impressed. When
    the time comes to buy another appliance, I will definitely visit them.

    re. 39
    
    We bought our Maytag washer/dryer, Amana refrigerator and Kitchen Aid
    garbade disposal from Hunter in 1986 when we moved into our house.  If I
    remember correctly everything was delivered as scheduled on the day
    we moved in.  They also installed the dryer vent in the side of the
    house and installed the garbage disposal.
    
    They gave us the Mass Buying Power price even though we did not bother
    to get the offical paper work.
    
    Carol

    We will be purchasing a new electric stove shortly and have been
    looking at the smooth top cook tops.  We have only looked so far at the
    Magic Chef and Whirlpool ones.  I would appreciate any comments people
    have on their likes/dislikes of smooth tops and which brands they
    prefer and why.  I think they run about $125-$150 more than a
    convential electric stove.  Thanks.

Do you mean the halogen, induction, or some other types?

You might want to check TURRIS::COOKS (5.* contains directories) for a cooks
point of view discussion of many of these.

    I believe they are halogen.

    
    
    		We recently purchased a smoothtop range.  It's a GE
    	Profile series.  We also paid extra for the convection oven
    	cooking option, very cool option.  On convection bake you can bake
    	at 25 degrees less than the recommended setting and something like
    	30% quicker.  Havn't had any problems, very easy to clean, simple
    	to program.  Ther's 4 elements on the top 2 small and 2 large with
    	an option to reduce the size of one of the larger cooking areas
    	by 1/2 by flicking a switch.  Paid in the nieghborhood of 110o.
    
    
    						Sharkski
    
    

    Looking for people's likes/dislikes of Maytag applicances. 
    Specifically dishwashers and stoves.  I had a GE potscrubber dishwasher
    and didn't care for it all that much, so am not interested in the GE.
    Leaning towards Maytags.  Comments?  (Again, dishwasher and stove
    only).  We already have Maytag washer and dryer and have been very
    pleased.  Thanks.

    We've had a Maytag dishwasher for 3 years now, and it's been 
    great.  We chose it because it was quieter than most other brands
    in the price range (Ie- GE, kenmore, etc), and seemed to be very
    well built.  My only regret is that we only got a two level
    wash instead of three level.  We had been renting a place that
    had a kitchenAid three level wash unit which did a substantially
    better job on the dishes and was substantially quieter - but when
    we looked into buying one - we were substantially shocked at the price.
    The Maytag cleans well as long as you are smart about loading it, 
    while the KitchenAid would clean perfectly even if a 3 year old
    loaded it.  The Maytag is a little different in that dishes and tall
    items go on top, while glasses and short items go on the bottom.
    I'd buy one again unless I found a great sale on a KitchenAid :^).
    

    
    I bought a new Maytag diswasher two years ago. It  was the first year
    they replaced the metal tub with plastic. The diswasher runs great but
    is very noisy. We will not run the dishwasher while we are in the
    kitchen.
    
    Bill