Conference 7.286::home_work

    They work great if you remember to dump the bucket everyday. Some
    other points;
    	- Keep them clean, I have mine in the basement where I can alot
    	  of dirt and saw dust. The condensed water on the coils attracks
    	  dirt.
    
    	- They freeze up at about 60 degrees. A problem I have in early
    	  spring (in the rainy season).
    Bob...
    

While visiting an uncle I saw a SUPERB method for installing one.  He hung it
from his ceiling!  Not only did this get it out of the way but more importantly
it puts it above up his cellar sink!  Now all he has to do is run a hose into 
the sink and never have to remember to dump th ewater.

As a comment, some dehumidifiers come with the ability to attach a hose to the
bucket.  If you ever want to automate your dumping, this feature is highly
desireable, if not a must.

    There's another reason to hang a dehumidifier from the ceiling.
    Warm air rises, and if your basement is cool (around 60 degrees)
    the dehumidifier won't freeze up as soon if its up high.
    In my basement, I have to keep a small thermostatically controlled
    heater aimed at the coils to keep it from freezing.  Even when it's
    90 degrees outside.
    

    
    I have my dehumidifier on a timer to run (during the middle of the
    night) for two reasons: 1) the noise and heat it outputs are annoying
    when in the cellar, and 2) most units have archaic humidistats that
    don't function reliably, which leads to excessive run time, especially
    if you're away. I set the (alleged) humidistat to max dry, and it's
    gauranteed to come on when the timer kicks in.

    As for energy use, my 40 pint unit is rated, I believe, at around
    9 amps. This is 'pret near a kilowatt, so it will consume about
    1 kilowatt hour each hour on. Smaller units will use less power,
    but a really damp basement will force you to run it longer; net
    energy use may be the same. Dealers should be able to give some
    sort of sq. ft. rating for various units.

Our basement, though dry as a bone for two years, is very damp this summer, and 
is particularly damp right under the garage foundation and slab that we just 
put in - which is exactly the opposite of what I'd expected.  Anyway, our noses 
have brought to our attention the fact that we really need to get a 
dehumidifier.

Dehumidifiers have been heavily discussed in another note, but no one has said 
much of anything about brands.  I don't care about pint capacity because I'm 
going to mount it up over the set-tub and drain it directly.  But does anyone 
have any experience with Kenmore (ugh), Magic Chef, or Admiral?  Those are the 
three that we're currently considering.

Paul

    I've had a Kenmore for sveral years and so for have been happy with
    it.  (If I have a problem this weekend now I'm coming after you).
    
    As far as being suprised, why.  I have the same problem.  The floor
    I poured in 84 is wet.  The cellar poured in 69 is dry.  That floor
    is newer and hasn't completely dried yet.  I't got a coat of sealer
    in fact 2 and the cellar does not.
    
    I was suprised too.  The above is a guess as to what is happening.

re: .5 its been said before- but be careful in a basement UNDER a 
garage, as some auto-exhaust fumes can be heavier than air and vent 
into the basement.  Not sure what the effect of dehumidifying these 
fumes would be, but I sure wouldn't drink the water!

    At the request of the moderator, I'm reposting this question here.
    
    Can anyone recommend specific brands they've had experience with?  I'm
    interested in performance, reliability, ease-of-use, price, stores etc.
    
    I'm planning to mount one in the basement, and am interested in the
    larger-capacity units (40 pints and up)
    
    Thanks

    And while we're at it, has anybody seen or rigged up a dehumidifier
    with a float valve and pump to automatically empty the pan through
    a piece of Tygon going through the band joist?  I haven't found
    anything like this and wonder why:  it seems like an easy thing to
    do, or am I missing something?
    
    Bruce
    

	

	No, you're not missing anything, and it is indeed very easy!!

	Just get yerself a condensate pump from any decnet (i mean decent)
	hardware store, a backflow valve, and a length of tubing.

	Josh
	

    So besides the temp/coil freezing...
    
    Is it any better to elevate a de-humidifier or is it better to keep it
    on the floor?
    
    Or does it make any known difference one way or the other?
    
    Thanks!

    I keep mine up in the air on an overturned metal garbage can...
    
    so the hose can drain into the air-conditioning condensate pump!
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I keep mine over one side of a double sided sink, hooked up a short
    piece of hose to a knock-out in the dehumidifier holding tank, and
    let it drain into the sink....this way i do not have to empty it.
    mike.
    

    I need additional information on dehumidifiers and note 278.5
    referenced another discussion which I have not found, can anyone point
    me there?
    
    My quick question:  ref: 278.4 - how long do you need to keep a deh.
    on?  I find that the settings are not reliable 1-8,9..dryest and leave
    it on dryest.  Do I need to run it 24 hrs. a day.  We finished a
    basement and need to run it, but all the time???  any hints???  It also
    makes it very hot when it runs all day/night with the windows closed...
    around 82 degrees.
    
    Rich

    I keep a humidity gauge in my basement in the summer, and try to keep
    the humidity no higher than 65%.  That seems to be a happy medium.  The
    temperature seems to stay at an even 70 F in this recent hot spell.
    
    My husband thinks it's on all the time, but it's not.  But if it's off
    when it's humid, the humidity can quickly climb to 80 or 85%!  It uses
    electricity, but I insist on a must-free basement.
    
    Elaine
    

Normally, you run it on maximum until you're not getting a full bucket of
water in a day, then edge it back until it maintains the level of humidity
you want.  In my basement, my 40-pint unit needs to be emptied twice a day,
so it isn't even an issue for me!

				Steve

    We run an air conditioner in the basement 24 hours a day to keep the
    computers cool and it's always nice and (cool and) dry.  If you don't
    have computers, use any 500 watt load...  :+)
    
    Willie

    We run ours all the time.  By that, I mean it's ON all the time, but
    it's own humidity-sensor works very well, so it only runs when it needs
    to.  We just replaced our old (broken) one, with a deh. that can handle
    about twice the capacity that we need.  *WELL* worth the extra money! 
    Our old one, which was 'supposed to be' ideal for our needs would
    freeze up a lot, and never kept the basement *DRY*, even though it ran
    constantly.  
    
    The larger one also gives us a covered gallon container so we don't
    have to be a slave to emptying it.  
    
    It does matter WHERE you locate it, and you should probably put the
    deh. in the most humid part of the room, with lots of area around it so
    that the air can circulate very well.  I think they've improved the
    sensors tremendously over the past few years.
    
    GOOD LUCK!

    Referencing .10 and .11.  Can anyone give me the specific brand name
    of a condensate pump?  Is there any certain ratings that I need to be
    aware of?
    
    		thanks
    		paul
    

Hello,

My bedroom has so much moisture in the summer that when I run the de-humidifier 
(if I don't mildew takes over the bedroom) every three-to-four days I get a 
small bucket full of water collected.  

The outside wall of the bedroom has heavy vegitation/plants.  Is that the 
source of my problem?  The house is ten years old (I bought it in December 
'90 and did not catch the problem until the summer of '91) and would like to 
know what kind of structural damage the moisture will have created?

What can I do to remedy this problem permanently? (uproot the plants?)

Thanks in advance!
Dan (A_First_Time_Home_Owner)

	   How much in the way of ventilation does this room have?  If
	you let the room breath, or perhaps force air through it with a
	fan, you should take care of your problem.  As for plants making
	it damp, I don't see how there might be a relationship.
	   Is the room completely above ground level?  If it's partially
	in the cellar, dampness is kind of the norm.  Is it perhaps on 
	the North side of the house?  The walls on that side never see
	the sun and take longer to dry than the other three sides.
	   A bucket every 3 to 4 days doesn't sound like a lot.  If
	you're in N.E., humidity is normally on the high side.

					Tim

RE:<<< Note 4698.0 by MIMS::BEKELE_D "My Opinions are MINE, MINE, all MINE!" >>>

>My bedroom has so much moisture in the summer that when I run the de-humidifier 
>(if I don't mildew takes over the bedroom) every three-to-four days I get a 
>small bucket full of water collected.  

     Dan, 

          You mean this isn't NORMAL for Atlanta?  :-)

>The outside wall of the bedroom has heavy vegitation/plants.  Is that the 
>source of my problem?  The house is ten years old (I bought it in December 
>'90 and did not catch the problem until the summer of '91) and would like to 
>know what kind of structural damage the moisture will have created?

     For a time, in the past, some people were using sort of an "aluminum foil"
type backing on insulation batts inside walls or under exterior siding.  This
type of material created a vapor barrier which prevented the natural moisture 
from escaping the house.

     Your plants may have a effect on the moisture in your walls, but I know
people with DENSE vegetation who do not suffer from the same problem.  

     I think you should find out the composition of your walls and insulation.
Also, the air circulation comment mentioned previously is a good idea, too.

                                    Greg

There is a type of interior paint which can serve as a vapor barrier - you
might want to look into this.

		Steve

re .3:

Vapor barriers are intended to keep moisture from getting out of the living
space into the insulation.  Since the base noter's complaint is the high
humidity in his living space, a vapor barrier paint (Glidden makes one)
is contraindicated.

The base note suggests to me a high rate of air infiltration - if one assumes
that what one wants to do is to dehumidify the air inside the house and not
constantly be bringing in new, humid air, then one needs to reduce the
incoming amount of humid air.  More ventilation won't help if the outside
humidity is higher than the desired inside humidity.

			Steve

>	   How much in the way of ventilation does this room have?  If
>	you let the room breath, or perhaps force air through it with a
	fan, you should take care of your problem.  

>	   Is the room completely above ground level?  If it's partially
>	in the cellar, dampness is kind of the norm.  Is it perhaps on 
>	the North side of the house?  The walls on that side never see
>	the sun and take longer to dry than the other three sides.

The room is ground level (the house is one level) on the south side,
(the room on the north side does not have this problem but the type of
vegitation on its side is different, if that makes a difference, and it has 
a window which I think is making the real difference), has a sliding mirror 
door facing south and there is no window.

Opening the sliding door makes the problem worse since outside humidity, as 
Greg suggested (Hi Greg) tends to be on the high side.  I would have liked 
a window by the east side but the entire east side is taken up by two walk-in 
closets.  Changing this may be major remodling.  Any suggestion regarding
    this is appreciated.

>     For a time, in the past, some people were using sort of an "aluminum foil"
>type backing on insulation batts inside walls or under exterior siding.  

I will have to investigate this.  Thanks.

Dan

My two-year old Sears 40-pint dehumidifier, which I keep running year-round
in my basement, has started to develop corrosion on the condensor coils, which
worries me.  The coils are copper with aluminum fins.  I've never seen this
happen before on a dehumidifier - have others?  Is it something I should
worry about?  I'm concerned that I might find myself with a refrigerant leak
someday.  (Have to check the warranty to see if it's still covered.)

			Steve

    I have some surface corrosion on my dehumidifier. Nothing dramatic,
    hasn't gotton worse in many years. Is the corrosion on the copper or
    aluminum?
    
    Marc H.

    The most serious corrosion seems to be of steel parts, such as the
    frame which holds the condensor coils, and the wire that holds the
    thermostat sensor against the aluminum fins.  In most caes, it's
    not too bad, but at the bottom where the refrigerant pipe enters
    the coils, there is apparently a lot of moisture buildup and a lot
    of rust (which is what the corrosion is, I've realized, and not the
    copper or aluminum corroding).
    
    				Steve

    RE: .23
    
    Hum...sounds like a faulty design. Also, doesn't sound like there is
    much you can do, short of a complete tear down, and re-paint with
    rust proof paint.
    
    I'd leave it along.
    
    Marc H.

    I've got a problem with my dehumidifier and am seeking some clues as to
    what is actually broken & possible remedies....   I'll begin by stating
    that I know *squat* about air conditioner/dehumidifier repair, et al. 

    We've got a whirlpool dehumidifier in our basement that's only a couple
    of years old. (Don't remember the specs, but it's decent-sized -- think
    it's a 20-pint or better unit).  It used to work great, but now
    something seems to have gone wrong.
 
    While the fan runs, it's not taking any water out of the air, and it
    ran all night last night!   I don't remember hearing the compressor
    really "kicking in" like it used to (lights would dim, etc ;^)  ).

    Anyway, I took the cover off and everything is pretty clean with no
    obvious outward signs of damage.  The coils weren't frozen (anyway it
    has an automatic cut-off that kicks in when it detects freezing).    Is
    there something *obvious* that I can check about the compressor?  Is it
    possible that the coolant has all leaked out?  How would I know?  Do
    compressors just "give out" and have to be replaced?

    Any advice will be appreciated....

    /doug who's got a rainstorm brewing in his basement...

    You said the thing was pretty clean - did you take a CLOSE look at
    the radiator coils (the ones with the metal fins - NOT the ones
    which are simply loops of tubing)?  You MAY have a build-up of
    dust and dirt in the radiator coils preventing air passage through
    the coils.
    
    Another check is to feel the compressor while the unit is running.
    Can you detect any motor noise/vibration from the compressor?  It
    is possible the compressor motor has died, or the freon has leaked
    out.
    
    Lastly, look for any obviously loose/disconnected wires.
    
    My 15+ year old Sears Kenmore dehumidifier is still running fine.  
    The only problems I've had have been excessive amounts of dust and
    dirt in the coils.
    

    
    1,  Take the cover off and and look at the back of the control
        for the degree of dryness (%RH - what ever).  Most of them
        today have a membrane, could be hair also.  If you have 
        access to some denatured alcohol, clean this sensor with
        a Q-tip.  Wait about a 1/2 hour for you'll dry the thing
        rightout. Try to start it.  If it don't kick in, unplug
        the unit again, remove the two wires from the control and
        stick them together being sure they don't touch the case
        and plug it back in.  If the compressor starts, you need a
        new control. Or - unplug the unit again, using electrical
        tape, wrap the connection you just made, put the cover on,
        and let it run until you get the new control being sure to
        check for ice buildup.
    
    2,  If the above did nothing, do the same to the defrost control
        on the silver coil.
    
    3,  If you get the compressor to run and the coils don't get cold
        in about 2 minutes, pull the plug, and unless you have a
        repairman in the family, junk it and get a new one.  Cost
        of repairs will almost equal a new one with a guarantee.
    
    Fred
                                                   

If the freon has leaked out, is it expensive to get it recharged?   And isn't
it likely to just leak out again?

/doug

    
    If it has leaked out, the hole must be located and sealed.
    Refrigerant 12 just jumped about 60% in cost/lb july 1st.
    So a lb of it is going to run you about $20. Plus a mans
    labor @ (guessing) $30/hr.
    
    I had a dehumidifier years ago that drove me nuts trying
    to find the leak.  For about 3 years running I had to 
    recharge it.  And when you have detectors that'll sniff 
    out a 1/2 oz a year leak, it does frustrate you. I got 
    it tho'. Was the little red seal around the electrical
    connector as it passes thru the compressor body. In the 
    winter it would dry up a bit and the refrig would slowly
    exit.  Found it 1/2 way thru the winter season. 
    
    Was a relatives, and gas was $1.25/lb then.
    
    Fred

    
    Does anyone know whether draining into a sump pump is OK?
    
    I have an internal perimeter drain in the basement. The only place I
    could drain the dehumidifier would be into the sump pump.  Seems to me
    that this should work, but thought I would ask.                    

    Re: .30
    
    Works fine for me...too.
    
    Marc H.

    
    
      I see no reason why it won't work. The only possible thing that isn't
    perfect is that some portion of the water you have drawn from the air
    will be re-evaporating back into the air *from* the sump. Of course
    that will or at least should be a small amount. Ideally, your sump
    should be sealed. It is a source of moisture in itself.
    
    				Kenny

    
    I have seen many references to it, but no reasons or solutions. My
    dehumidifier's coil is a solid chunk of ice. What causes it and
    what can I do to prevent it?!?
    
    thanx for any advice,
    
    Joe
    
                                      

What causes it is that the ambient temperature is low enough that the water
freezes on the condensor coil instead of condensing into water and dripping
off.  Many dehumidifiers have a sensor which detects this and shuts off the
compressor; the ice then melts and the unit starts up again.  Some brands
are more prone to icing up than others.  Emerson Quiet-Kool has a "Frost-Sentry"
feature which isn't really a "sentry" at all - rather, they designed the
coils to reduce the probability of freeze-up, and omitted the sensor.  Bad
move - doesn't work.  

At this time of the year when temperatures drop below 60 is when you can
start having problems with icing.  If your model doesn't have a frost sensor,
there's not much you can do.

Consumer Reports, when they tested dehumidifiers several years ago, noted
which models performed best at low temperatures.  If you need to run a
dehumidifier in low temperatures, as I do, then you should pay attention
to these ratings.  The dealer from which we bought the Emerson Quiet-Kool
refunded our money and we bought a Sears model which has worked perfectly
for the past three years - we run it in our basement right through the
winter.  (Curiously, the Sears models are made by Emerson Electric, which
I think is a different company than Emerson Quiet-Kool.)

					Steve

    
    Steve,
    
    thanx alot. makes perfect sense. too bad I didn't know about this
    when I bought it this spring.
    
    thanx again,
    
    Joe

    
    
    Is it normal for a dehumidifier to give off heat?

    
    Yes.
    
    If it's cherry red, however, there might be something wrong with it.
    

A dehumidifier is just an air conditioner where the cooled air is run past the 
condensor coil to reheat it.  There is a net gain of heat from this process 
(which is why we can't solve global warming by having everyone run air
conditioners, as I have seen suggested...)

				Steve

     I have noticed that our dehumidifier produces more heat when it
    is in need of a cleaning. The coils and fins get very dusty and
    reduce the airflow considerably.
     I use a vacuum cleaner with the crevice tool attachment to
    get at this area of the unit.
    
    Bob

Heat from a dehumidifier comes from 2 sources:

1) The electrical energy that drives the compressor all becomes heat
   eventually.

2) Converting water vapor into liquid water releases the heat of
   vaporization of that amount of water which can be substantial.

-Mike

    Well, you *could* solve global warming with air conditioners, provided
    you make sure that the condensers are sufficiently far away from
    the earth :)

    re .41
    
    ... and then you could plug the compressors into some alien planet's
    grid and save billions in utility bills ...

  I just bought a Hampton Bay Fan Co. 25-pint-per-day dehumidifier. Does any-
one have any experience with this brand? I bought it because it was the best
deal I could find. This is the only make that Home Depot carries. I checked
Aubuchon Hardware, and they carry an Oasis brand (appears to be about the same)
for $40 more. I was anxious to get one, so didn't shop around further.
  I am using it to dehumidify a small apartment. It is probably too large for
want I need, but I want to be able to re-use it in a larger space in the future.
  I haven't used a dehumidifier for 20 years, so I am not "up" on what should
happen.
  It seems like this unit is putting out a lot of heat, more than I would ex-
pect. I am uneasy because it is not stated anywhere in the manual or on the
label what the wattage is. It does say that it requires a 15 amp circuit. 
Knowing that circuits go in steps of 5 amps, this tells me the load is greater
than 10 amps, which means greater than 115 x 10 ~= 1 kW. But this probably
means the startup load, not the continuous load.
  I am planning to call their service number and see if I can find out the
wattage.
  A related question: Are dehumidifiers supposed to have "EnergyGuide" labels,
as large appliances do? This one doesn't.

The manual should state what the power consumption is, or a label on the
back of the unit.  Since nobody uses 10A circuits anymore, 15A is typically
the minimum a manufacturer will recommend.

Dehumidifiers do put out heat.

No energy guide labelling is required at this time on dehumidifiers.

You may have made a mistake by going for "the best deal" without taking
efficiency and freeze-protection into account.  Consumer Reports found
wide variations in the amount of moisture removal per KWH consumed.

				Steve

  After posting .43, I found the label with the power rating, which says it's
6.3 A, which translates to 725 W. I also found out this unit is mfd by Whirl-
pool.

> efficiency and freeze-protection into account.  Consumer Reports found
> wide variations in the amount of moisture removal per KWH consumed.

  Do you know which issue of Consumer Reports this is?
  It's unfortunate that dehimidifiers are not required to have EnergyGuide
labels; they use a lot of electricity even if they don't run continuously.

The CU issue was probably from 1991 or 1992.  I remember looking at it when
I went to buy a dehumidifier.

				Steve

    Steve: which brand/model did you end up buying.  I'm in the market
    looking around currently.
    
    thanx ....d.
    

I ended up with a Sears, after buying and returning an Emerson Quiet Kool
model which froze up if you looked at it crossways.  One of the aspects CU
tested was performance at low temperatures (which is common in a basement).
(Come to think of it, I think CU did a review of dehumidifiers just within
the past month or two...)  The Sears was one of the best at low-temperature
performance.

				Steve

	    I have a Hampton Bay 40 pint dehumidifier.  In the basement,
	it doesn't seem to give off a lot of heat.  My basement is pretty
	dry, though, so the unit doesn't have to run very much.  Haven't
	had any problems with it.
	    Once things warm up, running a dehumidifier in an apartment
	wont be such a good idea.  It will have to run harder which will 
	make it run hotter.

					Tim

The cooling fan inside my dehumidifier seized up, so I'm looking for a
replacement fan.  I'd like to pull one out of a junked unit, but none have shown
up at our local (Sterling) recycling center.  Does anyone know of a scrap yard,
landfill, etc. in the central Mass. area where I could scavange one?  I'd also
be willing to pick one up if someone has one they'd like to get rid of.

It's an Admiral DH-37A, but I think they're all pretty much the same.

    I had the same problem this year when I went to use ours. I took the
    fan out and sprayed the shaft with WD40 and BINGO got this running.
    
    Philkat
    

    re .51
    
    I tried that, but it still needed a nudge to get moving.  I also tried
    replacing it with a muffin fan but that didn't move enough air.
    
    Somewhere there's a fix-it shop with a drawer full of these.
    
    Jamie

>    I had the same problem this year when I went to use ours. I took the
>    fan out and sprayed the shaft with WD40 and BINGO got this running.


Be careful, WD-40 is a moisture displaceant/sealant NOT a lubricant.

I agree with the caution on the WD-40.  It's great for some purposes, but it
is not a great permanent lubricant and it dissolves lots of things (like any
grease that's still present).  It's the only thing I've ever seen that will
readily dissolve Loctite (sp?), the stuff you use to keep screws from
vibrating loose and backing out.  :-)  If you use the WD-40 to clean out the
old crud, then get it as dry as possible and then regrease with something
appropriate.  Don't get me wrong, I use lots of WD-40, but WD means water
displacer and, as a side-effect, it displaces other things.    Rich