Conference 7.286::home_work

    I started out with a weed lawn and after spending big bucks to get
    a new one (tilling, loams, seed, fertilizer) decided to go with
    Chemlawn last year.  I did have a nice looking lawn and they do
    honor their promise to come back for problems, complaints, etc.
    but they are expensive.  I decided to do it myself this year and
    its costing about half what Chemlawn wanted (excluding my time).
    Cost for Chemlawn ran about $80/20,000 sq. ft. and that was 4 times
    a year.
    
    Steve
    

    Let's re-open this topic since there are not too many replies here (and
    I didn't find any other notes relating to this topic in the
    conference).
    
    Does anyone have any (updated) recommendations on Lawn Service company?
    Rates?  Quality of service?  etc.  Thanks!!
    
    								-SKD-
    

    
    Just go to the Lawn and Garden Show at the Centrum in Worcester Ma. I'm
    sure there will be LOTS of Lawn service companies there! The show is
    starting tonight and runs until Sunday.
    
    Steve

re: .2  In what country/state/county/city/zip code are you located?

If you are near Middleton, MA, I have heard good things about Precision Lawn
(or something like that)  Never used them myself.

Stan

    Budget cuts may prevent me from signing up this year, but over the past
    four years, I've used four different companies, including Old Fox,
    Chem-Lawn, & Lawn Doctor. Although they may use different types  of
    chemicals (dry vs liquid for example), I haven't noticed any big
    differences in the way the lawn has looked, and I've never had a
    problem with any of them in getting questions answered or having them
    come back to do something more to my satisfaction, so I'm not ready to 
    say that one service is better than another. 
    
    What it really comes down to for me is price! Every year, I call each
    of the major companies and ask them to come by to do an evaluation and
    to give me an estimate for their services. They'll come out, measure
    the lawn, do their thing, and leave their info/quote for me to read
    later. Every year, I simply go with the cheapest one. So far, this has
    worked for me.
    
    Interesting sidenote regarding lawn measurements: over the past 4
    years, I've probably gotten 20-25 quotes on my lawn, and not *once*
    have I ever gotten the same measurement twice! (and since price is
    based on size, this is more than a trivial thing.) The funniest was 
    last year, when somehow I wound up getting two seperate evaluations 
    done by different reps of the same company, but about a week apart.
    Even *their* measurements differed! As it so happened, it wound up
    being the  company I selected. When I called, I told them about having
    received  two seperate and different quotes, and that I'd sign up at
    the lower of the two, thank you very much...
    
    Good luck!
    
    Freddie

    
    My apologies to those who took my misguided advice and went to the Lawn
    and Garden Show at the Centrum. It was a BIG disappointment. There were
    at most fifteen different vendors there. Much less than expected. 
    
    Steve B.
    

    re. 4
    
    I live in Groton, MA
    
    I guess based on the past few replies, I will open up the yellow pages
    and call up some of the companies and ask them go give me estimates and
    go with the cheapest one.  
    
    Any clues as to an approximate cost for about 1/2 acre of lawn??  
    
    Thanks!
    
    							-Sujal-
    

    
    I've received quotes from various lawn services ranging from $250 for
    a basic 4 applications to $350 for "deluxe" service (including lime,
    bug killers, etc). This in Townsend, MA. I have � acre of land, but
    the actual lawn area has been estimated at 15,000 ft�
    
    None of the quotes included cutting -- now that would have been a real
    grabber.
    

    re.: .8
    
    Could you list the services you got quotes from (and their prices)?
    
    Also, does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Lawn Doctor?
    
    Thanks!
    	
    							-SKD-

    My sibs and I just pitched in to get my parents a years worth of
    service from the Lawn Company.  They said my parent's yard, front and
    back was about an acre. They're going to give 4 or 6 applications
    during the summer. Our main reason for getting the service is to get
    rid of grubs.
    
    It cost about $400.  This is on the Cape though, and prices might 
    be different.
    
    Kath 
    

    Anyone familiar with Barefoot Grass Lawn Service, (N. Billerica, MA)? 
    I just received an estimate from them for my home in Nashua, which
    includes 5 applications plus aeration for only $45.00.  I could easily
    spend that much myself on fertilizer.  They use a dry granular
    fertilizer as opposed to the liquid application.   This sounds like a
    good deal, but I would like to know if anyone else has used this
    company.
    							Thanks,
    								-Dave-
    (cross posted in GARDENING)

    
    Re: .11
    
    I would recheck your quote .. the $45.00 should be for EACH application, 
    NOT all 5.
    
    We received quotes from both Barefoot and from ChemLawn.  We chose
    ChemLawn as they were much more attentive to our needs.  They were
    patient and came back 2-3 times to discuss various options.  Barefoot
    didn't even try for our business.
    
    Our lawn size was estimated at 22,000 sq ft.  We also had the option of
    either dry or liquid application (we chose dry) [they also now have an
    organic fertilizer, which we did not try, for considerabley more].  We 
    were able to get a free application of lime and to eventually negotiate 
    on a price (we heard ChemLawn barters, so we tried).  Initial quote was
    4-6 applications @ $109.00 per application.  My wife, Mrs. Let's Make A
    Deal, was able to get the final price of $85.00 per application.
    
    With a new, large lawn, we opted for a lawn service to help us get the
    lawn established.  
    
    Rick
        

    
    I used Chemlawn for several years with great results. I switched to
    Barefoot Grass in Billerica when Chemlawn increased their price by 43%
    during the last two years I used them.
    
    Barefoot grass was $18 per application cheaper but the results were
    terrible. My grass wasn't as green as before and weeds started to grow 
    back. Barefoot rearely came back to treat the weeds and when they did
    the results were poor.
    
    One other note.. Directly after the last four Chemlawn applications my
    cats got sick for a few days. That, along with the price increase,
    convinced me to switch. My catss did not get sick after Barefoot grass
    applications.
    
    For my lawn:                Chemlawn was $63 per application
                                Barefoot was $45 per application
         I bought a broadcast spreader for <$30 and buy Scotts and spend
    approx $25-35 per application and less than 1 hr of easy work. The 
    results have been better than Barefoot and just as good as Chemlawn.
    I fertilize and treat for weeds and insects each time.
    My cats don't get sick.
    
     
                                             Bill       
     

  Over the past few years I've used Old Fox, Orkin & Chemlawn. I was happy with
OF & C. Orkin didn't come out to look at problems as quickly as I'd like. I
basically played one off against another, looking for the best price, then
switching back a year or so later to get the "low, welcome-back introductory
price." I've also had my share of grubs, red thread, etc etc. The last batch of
red thread appeared 2 days after the lawn service guy did our lawn, starting
around the general area of his footprints. One of our cats almost died of liver
failure last year 3 days after an application. That, combined with the cost & the
fact that my wife has never been a big fan of laying down chemicals, has meant
we've switched back to doing it ourselves. Chemlawn (and others) will do your
lawn organically, but they charge rather dearly for it. I'm doing a bit of
experimenting with Ringer's Restore (which I read about in PICA::CARDEN) and
Espoma. Both are 100% organic. The Ringer's ran me $16.99 for 2,500 sq ft while
the Espoma was like $18.99 for 5,000 sq. ft. The Espoma's twice as high in
nitrogen (18) as well, so unless the Ringer's does amazing stuff I'll stick with
the former.
  If you do go with a service, bargain on the price; I've had it reduced up to
almost half, plus free lime applications just by hemming and hawing about price.

						Trace

Trace, could you post updates from time to time on the results of the organic
fertilizer you're using on your lawn?

Thanks,
John

First application goes on this weekend (if I have time to get the spreader
assembled :-). The organics, with lower nitrogen (like 9 or 18), don't turn
everything green as quickly as the non-organics at something closer to 30, so I'm
not expecting instant gratification. I'll drop a reply about mid-June with an
update.

						Trace

We've had excellent results from strictly organic fertilizer.  It can't cure
our poor soil (very sandy in spots, with no organic matter), but the
spots where the lawn is in good shape green up, stay green, and grow well.

The best part is that the fall application doesn't decompose, get used up, or 
leech into the subsoil over the winter, so the lawn greens up quite early in
the spring.  You don't need quite as much nitrogen with organics as with the
inorganics, because so much of the inorganic nitrogen leeches out before the
lawn can use it (hence it requires more).

   Gary

I split the yard into several sections...
Front yard (full sun):    1/3 Espoma - 1/3 Ringers - 1/3 Espoma
Back yard  (lotsa shade): 1/2 Ringers - 1/2 Espoma

  I can't see any difference, nor did the Espoma's higher nitrogen count appear
to get the lawn greener any quicker. The Ringer's bag says something like: "It's
VERY IMPORTANT to keep the lawn moist 3-4 days after application." Espoma says
you don't have to water it in or keep it moist.
  Given that:
	Espoma costs me about half what Ringer's does
	12,000 sq. ft. of lawn is a pain to water
	Water ain't cheap where I live ($50 last month)

  I'll be using the Espoma.

					Trace

    Trace, you claim no noticable difference between the 2 organic brands,
    but you haven't commented on the results in general.  Do you feel that
    it worked well, and how does it compare to chemicals?
    
    My lawn responds too well to Hyponex, although I'm still considering
    the switch to organic...
    
    Thanks,
    John
    

It's difficult to compare - rain/temp can of course make a big difference and I
don't recall what weather was like this time last year. Our mower quit working
about 3 weeks ago and I haven't had time to fix it. In that time, the grass grew
to about 6" and went to seed. Our neighbor has their house on the market and they
generously offered to let us borrow their mower over the weekend. Now if only I
could get them to paint our exterior....    I think the good growing conditions
of the past couple weeks definately helped, however the lawn has never grown
enough to go to seed. We also seem to have more squirrels & birds tromping around
outside. We have an ant or two inside, but I think that's a fair trade for giving
up all the chemicals.

						Trace

> I don't recall what weather was like this time last year.

	    I remember quite a heat wave (in N.E.) around this time last
	year.  The people who we bought our house from had cut the lawn
	nice and short before they sold it; almost like a putting green.
	The lawn got totally fried and didn't recover until this spring.

					Tim

    Has anyone ever used or tried Nutri-Green Lawn Care out of Hudson, NH
    (and out of N. Chelmsford, MA)?   Any opinions, pro or con, would be
    greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
    
    							-Sujal-

    I recently hired and then quickly fired a lawn care company.  They sold
    me on how "caring" they would be in maintaining my lawn. Just by
    coincidence I happened to be home when they came out for the first
    application.  They rolled off two seemingly "turbo-charged" fertilizer
    spreaders and proceeded to fertilize my lawn, the street, the driveway,
    the inside of my garage and shed and all of my porches.  I had asked
    them to lime the place also - they didn't.  I have about 30000 sq ft of
    lawn and no kidding - they arrived and were back on the road again in
    fifteen minutes - no kidding?  Left me with a huge clean up job. 
    
    So - I've decided to save my money and once again - get serious about
    "doing-it-myself!"
    
    But I need some advice.  My lawn is basically a mish-mash of some
    really nicely developed grass with very few weeds - to - areas where
    the moss grows wild!  And I can't water my lawn as my well just won't
    support the drain. So I have to depend on nature for the moisture.
    
    Everytime I go hunting for the "appropriate" fertilizer I get so
    confused about what to buy.
    
    Is there some basic procedure I can follow over the course of a season
    that will help keep my lawn in reasonably good condition?  
    
    Thanx .... Dan

    Dan,
    
    I hate to say it but there is ABSOLUTELY no substitute for watering. 
    Period.  Year after year it is extremely clear that lawns receiving
    regular watering (like those with in-ground sprinkler systems) are the
    ones that look awesome.  Those that don't simply turn brown by July.
    And no, I don't have an in-ground sprinkler system, although I am
    fortunate to have a brook that runs through my property and I installed
    a pump to water my lawn from there (which, besides costing me so much
    less on my water bill also gives the added bonus of not paying sewer
    charges for the water which never goes down the sewer anyway).
    
    As for fertilizer, there are a thousand "programs" that apply to lawns
    in various conditions.  The most standard that I know of is the 4 step
    program that many current fertilizer manufacturers like Scotts sell. 
    It goes something like this:
    
    	1: Early spring		Crabgrass preventer & lawn food
    	2: Late spring		Weed & feed
    	3: Summer		Straight fertilizer
    	4: Fall			Winterizer fertilizer
    
    There are also moss and insect control products out there, but since
    I've not had to use them I really don't know when to apply them or
    how/if they interact with any of the steps above.
    
    Regarding lime, I've been told so many different things that I don't
    know which way to turn.  Some people say don't put down lime and
    fertilizer at the same time.  Others say it doesn't matter.  Still
    others say that you can't put down enough lime in New England due to
    soil conditions.  Me?  I put it down twice a year at about 50 lbs. per
    100 square feet (I think they recommend 100 lbs. per square foot but I
    think that's just to get you to buy more lime :-)).  I put it down in
    the early spring a couple of weeks before step 1 but after I dethatch
    the lawn and do the first cleanup and then in the fall a couple of
    weeks before the application of step 4.
    
    I have to admit that this has worked for me the passed three years.  My
    lawn looks great right now, so great that I could cut it twice a
    week....but I don't.  :-)
    
    ...Roger...

    I hate to say it, but....
    
    Some of us just DON'T HAVE THE OPTION OF WATERING. My well produces 
    one and a half gallons per minute. I can run a hosepipe (safely) for 
    45 minutes in 24 hours, less if there's a drought. There's little point
    in watering at all, because I've done that and got roots that are too
    shallow to survive.  
    
    I know all the rules for fertilizing and liming (limeing?) and am
    doing something close to what you suggest. 
    
    My base is very sandy with a thin layer of soil spread on top by the 
    builders. I'm going to start scraping off the grass and several inches
    of dirt and replace with loam. Hopefully I can persuade this to hold a 
    little more water. But because of the water limitaion (I know I must
    water the seed until it is established), I can only do a small section 
    at a time, at most 1000 sq ft. It's going to take years to get this
    right.
    
    Any other ideas welcome.....
    
    - Richard.

I have a lawn with lots of moss and junk: typical of many southern NH lawns.
This is a sign of soil that is basically too acidic.  My well also cannot
support watering the lawn.

I had my soil analyzed by the local county cooperative extension office (UNH in
cooperation with the State of NH), which gave me a wonderful little report
telling me exactly what my soil needs, what to do about it and when.  I believe
this report to be unbiased, since neither UNH nor the state sells lawn
maintenance products.  The report cost me $8.  If you do this, find out what the
procedure is to take the soil samples beforehand: there's a method to it.

I asked a professional landscaper once about what kinds of grasses would do well
without watering, and there are some.  I plan to ask the cooperative extension
office about this later, in the fall.

A criticism I've heard about the neat little 4-step programs is that some of the
chemicals in the later steps become necessary because of conditions fostered by
other chemicals in earlier steps.  For example, my lawn has fungi in it.  If I
were to fertilize in Step 1 with a fertilizer that is heavy on the nitrogen,
this nitrogen may encourage fungal growth which would require the fungicide in
Step 2.  Furthermore, heavy on the nitrogen produces quick growth which would
require more water and more mowing ... Etc.

Basically, get yourself armed with the knowledge of your lawn's requirements
before you take any action.  Kind of like: "requirements first, then design and
implementation".

-Chris

    re -1
    
    Yep - same here - each year I carve out a section at a time - plant it
    - water it - get it establish and then pray for enough rain to maintain
    it.  It's a gamble. 
    
    I just picked up a couple of Sears Electronic Watering Timers.
    Definitely takes the drudgery out of watering by hand and fighting
    black flies and mosquitoes.  I highly recommend them.  Coupled with
    those impact sprinklers - I can set the timers to go off four times a
    day for any time increment I choose.  Really helps in safeguarding my
    well water supply.  
    
    I'm going to check out that 4-step program.  Thanx for the notes.
    
    d.

    RE: .26 
    
    Can you please post a phone number and address of this facility?
    
    That's $8 bucks worth spending!
    
    Thanx ....d.

    
    For the past couple of years I've been applying a top-dressing of
    loam and peat at the start and end of the growing season.  The
    peat enables the soil to hold more water for longer periods.
    I think you can also use vermiculite.
    
    Colin
    

    Colin: 
    
    Is vermiculite sold at garden centers?
    
    d.

    
    I haven't noticed it. It's labelled something like "hydrous silicate of
    X" where X is some mineral or minerals (mica perhaps?).  It's sold in
    builders supply places because it has various building uses like
    insulating the cores of concrete block walls.
    
    Colin

    Vermiculite is sold in the garden center at K-Mark, so I'm sure others
    have it, too.  Hyponex and others distribute vermiculite, perlite, and
    peat moss in garden centers (and many stores with garden centers).  --S

Vermiculite is found in garden centers.   At Home Depot, it's in the house
plants aisle with potting soil.

According to the gardening talk show, tall fescue grass is supposed to be
very durable and drought-resistant. It has 3 ft long roots which help it
get water not readily availble closer to the surface.  It is sold under
the brand names of Rebel Jr. and Prelude.   Good in sun or shade.

This is my third spring at my current house.  The first srping, the 
lawn was barely so-so and only if you didn't look too closely.  
Very acid soil.  Moss areas.  Thin areas.  Weed areas. Crabgrass
areas. Grub areas.  and, oh yeah, some grass areas.

I did lots of TLC the past two years and this spring, it looks almost
like a golf course.  It is not perfect, but it is really good
looking.  (and I can't quite figure out why that is so important,
 but it does feel good having a nice lawn) 

I did Scott's 4-Step.  Lime'd each Spring & Fall @ 40 lbs/1000 sf.
Diazinon last April and July.  Aerate last fall. De-thatch this
spring.  A little loam & re-seeding was done in really bare spots.

Good luck!

-Wendy

To find your local Cooperative Extension Service, look in the Business section
of your phone book under the name of your county.  These services are
county-based.  Or, just look up UNH.

-Chris

    ...then there are those of us who favor the benign neglect approach.
    Right now I've got naturaized grape hyacinths, crocuses, daffodils,
    tulips, bluets, violets, and a bunch of other things I don't recognize 
    all over the place.  I might put down some lime, but I don't fertilize
    or use weed killers.  I mow once in a while and leave the clippings
    which, because I haven't killed off every living thing in the lawn,
    decompose quickly and disappear.  My motivations include:
    1. I've got a well, so putting weed killer and fertilizer all over
       the place does not seem like a good thing to do.
    2. I like having the flowers.  I don't like the "golf course" look.
    3. I've got better things to do than worry about my lawn all the time.

    .35:
    
�    3. I've got better things to do than worry about my lawn all the time.
    
    Yeah, after several years my wife's caught on to the fact that the more
    lawn I turf up and make into beds, the less lawn there is to mow.
    
    Dick

    	There's definitely something to be said about the approach in .35.
    The more you fertilize, the more your lawn will grow, which will result
    in having to water and mow it more often. It all adds up to more time
    and more money.
    
    	Using the approach in .35, my lawn was basically green all-year
    round, when other lawns receiving much more care than mine were brown 
    by early July. From observation only, it seems like lawn food and 
    constant watering makes the lawn more dependant on the food and water 
    for it's survival.
    
    	As far as watering, a filtered grey-water system would give you
    double-duty out of some of your waste water (i.e. shower and washer), 
    but laws and regulations make this fairly difficult from what I've heard.
    If you have town water/sewer, you can probably forget it. The town view 
    on this would likely be one of lost revenue vs. you having a greener
    lawn. Guess who's likely to win ?
    
    	Ray

Great replies: Thanx ...... Here's my plan!

Basic Lawn Care Plan:

	- minimize cost - minimize work - mow high - pray for rain - 

Early Spring	= Scotts Turfbuilder/Halts Weed Killer - timed-release and 
		  doesn't burn the grass.  
		= Lime - to control moss, and sweeten acid soil
		= Insect control - focused as needed

Memorial Day	= Super TurfBuilder 

Summer		= Enjoy myself - let it all burn if that's nature's call.
		
Labor Day	= Turfbuilder
		= Lime

Late November	= Scotts Winterizer
		
		

Last summer was the first year with a new house (to us) and so a new lawn.  The
lawn is not in great shape but I noticed that a lot of it stayed green all
summer while all my neighbor's lawns were burning even though I did nothing
except mow, including never watering.  In fact it grew so well that I was
getting a little p.o'ed that I had to mow the lawn every week when no one else
needed to mow their's.  The areas that stayed green are mostly clover with some
grass mixed in  So, it was green, looked pretty good, required no care, no
watering and didn't grow that high.  Sounds good to me!  You can sit and play on
clover as well as you can grass.  I'd like to get the rest of the lawn to be the
same.  Is it possible to buy grass seed with a high clover content or clover
seed itself.

George

    Sure, you can buy clover seed.  Go to a farm store like Agway.  If
    you're near South Acton, Mass., you can get it at Erickson's on 
    Route 27.  Aside from making a pretty good lawn, clover is a legume
    so it adds nitrogen to the soil.  Mix clover and grass, and you
    end up with a self-fertilizing lawn.
    
    I planted a section of the lawn at my old house in white clover.
    Personally, I found I didn't care for straight clover (any more
    than I care for straight grass), but a mixture is great.
    

>Early Spring	
>...
>		= Insect control - focused as needed

Insect control is usually a summer thing.  As far as the japanese
bettles grubs go, after the Jap beetles are out (sometime in July),
they do their thing and lay eggs.  When those eggs hatch is the 
best time to go after the grubs -- young and vulnerable -- easy to 
kill.  Late July/early August around southern NH, Central Mass.

The ones that survive the winter (and trigger the moles and their
friends to dig for food and make a mess), are more resistant to 
the insect controls in the Spring.  Differing opinions exist as 
to the effectiveness of spring treatments.

    
      I recently herd that if you throw Epson Salt down, it'll make your grass
     greener, any takers on this?
    
    OK, what if the inevitable happens and your lawn burns out totally
    during mid summer from lack of water.   Will it re-generate itself, or
    does it come down to reseeding in the fall?  
    
      -Dean

re .42:

>      I recently herd that if you throw Epson Salt down, it'll make your grass
>     greener, any takers on this?

If it's not green due to a shortage of magnesium, true.  Otherwise not.

I hear being short of magnesium is not uncommon.

-Mike

If you've limed with dolomitic lime, you're probably not short of magnesium.
The only way to tell is with a soil test.

Jerry Baker is a well-known gardener who writes newspaper columns and books.
His recommended lawn treatments include spraying with an "elixir" composed of
such things as Listerine and beer.  He also recommends Epsom salts.

    *Usuaully* your burned-out lawn will green up again in the fall.  if
    you don't mind the brown look during the hot weather, this is actually
    sort of a benefit in that you don't have to mow grass that isn't
    growing.  However, one year several years ago when we had a serious
    drought, I didn't water at all, relishing not having to cut the lawn,
    since that is far from my favorite job anyhow.  Well, some of it really
    did die off and did not grow back.  The following year, I had a REAL
    BIG job on my hands digging up and reseeding several big areas that had
    completely died.  Arrgh.  So these days, if we have really dry weather,
    I DO water the lawn (at night so it doesn't all evaporate).  That
    replanting job was absolutely no fun!  I do find it odd to see
    sprinklers going in my neighborhood already, though! - seeing as how it
    has rained at least a couple days a week every week since the grass
    started growing again, and none of these people have newly-seeded
    grass.  I guess they like the town water company (they definitely don't
    have private wells) or something?
    
    /Charlotte

Most fertilizers need to be watered in.  I've figured the sprinklers are running
for that reason.

We are also at about 2/3s normal precipitation for the year.  If it's a dry
summer, it will be easier to get through if the grass has normal moisture 
before it dries up.

Elaine

    Well, the sprinklers were going yesterday morning (it was drizzling out
    at the time), it rained heavily last night, and there they were again
    this morning - I guess they are on a timer.  I don't bother watering
    fertilizer in this time of year since it always rains at least twice a
    week.  Not my water bill, however!
    
    /Charlotte

    	I've been looking into watering timers lately and H.D. carries one
    (when it's in stock) for $38. It accepts a signal from a rain sensor 
    option which is $17. So for $48, you can have a rain sensing automatic
    watering system.
    
    	They also sell a unit which will do more cycles per day (not sure
    of cost) and a screw on unit that will switch the output automatically
    so that it switches output each cycle. This is all easy to install
    stuff that isn't big bucks. Unless you have a really big lawn, it
    doesn't make sense to be watering in the rain.
    
    	Ray

	    How about a big rain barrel?  I can't think of a way to make one
	big enough to be useful and still look good, though.  Maybe you could
	build a water tower!  Yeah... and instead of a roof, you put a big
	funnel on top.  Maybe not.

					Tim

��His recommended lawn treatments include spraying with an "elixir" composed of
��such things as Listerine and beer.  He also recommends Epsom salts.
    I do this, although I do some pre-processing of the beer.

    
    >> I do this, although I do some pre-processing of the beer.
    
    Thanks, I just choked on my lunch!!!  Many :^)'s. 
    
    /Charlie

    .52:
    
    Well, pre-processing it increases the nitrogen content, doncha know!
    
    Dick

    My wife and I are having a debate on what a 14 year old can charge for
    mowing lawns.  Assuming 1/4 to 1/3 acre house lots, what is a
    reasonable charge for mowing and picking up clipings?
    
    Thanks, Mark

    
    re -1
    
    People in my area (Westford,Ma.) gladly pay between $7-$10 per hour.
    The job should take <2 hrs.

    	That would probably depend on a couple of things like who supplies
    the mower and gas, and what you meant by "pick up the clippings".
    Assumably, you wouldn't expect a 14 year old to haul them away ?
    Mulching would make the whole process cheaper and easier if you didn't
    let the grass grow too long.
    
    	Assuming the 14 year old was supplying the mower/gas, the $7-10 an
    hour sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't expect it to take more than an
    hour for a lot that small.
    
    	Ray

    RE: .54
    
    Mark,
    
    Our son (14 at the time), used to get $15 - $20 for 1/4 acre lots last
    year. These were relatively flat lots, with little landscaping.
    
    I think the question that should be answered is 'what is it worth for you
    not to have to mow the lawn?' 
    
    
    hth,
    
    Kevin
    
    

    It is interesting that you both mention hourly rates.  The assumption
    is that the teenager supplies her own mower and equipment.  Pick
    up clippings means any major clumps of cut grass are picked up and
    hauled off.
    
    Average job should take about an hour.  I am saying $20-$25 per
    cutting.  My wife thinks this is high, I think it is just right.
    
    Spoke with two part time landscapers from DEC, they both said the
    price was reasonable.  But I would like to get home owner opinions.
    
    Thanks, Mark

    I guess there was one thing I did not make clear..  This is my daughter
    who I am encouraging to start her own mowing business.
    
    Mark

    $20.00 regardless of whose equipment.  Do not expect the driveway swept
    or clippings hauled away.  IMO of course.
    
    Brian

    >I am saying $20-$25 per cutting. 
    
     For that kind of money, you ought to get a frigging lawn manicure.
    IMO.
    
     A lot which takes 1 hour (start to finish) should cost around $10-12.
    $12-15 if the person doing the mowing uses their own equipment/gas. And
    scale from there, taking into account obstacles, inclines, etc. Edging
    costs extra, of course.

    My "lawn" is so steep that I'd probably be hit for $35 at least.
              
    But, I think I'd be a bit leery of having a 14-yr old with a power
    mower doing it as I've slipped on it a few times myself.  What if there
    was an accident or damage caused? Are you prepared for some irate
    houseowner to 'phone you demanding replacement of some 200yr-old bonsai
    tree that she mulched? :-)
    
    Half in jest.  But it's worth thinking about, and maybe even checking
    with your liability insurers.
    
    Colin
    

    This is funny.  Some of you say $20 is a bargain and some of you think it
    is too much.   I think we will avoid physically challenging lawns or
    lawns where we could damage expensive plantings.  That should still
    leave lots of lawn in our neighborhood.  
    
    I think anyone needs to get at least $10/hour just for the labor.  Then
    you have to consider use of the equipment for an hour...
    
    Mark

    	A lawn service has a lot more overhead, and usually more time invested, 
    than a local kid. They have the time it takes to get there and back, plus 
    wear and tear on the transport vehicle in addition to the lawn mower, to 
    mention a few. For them, $20-$25 (or more) would sound about right.
    
    	Seeing as how this is turning into a local business, it should be
    whatever the market will bear in your area. You can likely charge more
    in an upscale neighborhood than you could else where. The per hour rate
    takes into account complexity/obstacles, but most people would probably
    prefer a flat rate. Something that you'll probably just have to
    estimate if you go the flat rate route.
    
    	Ray
    
    BTW - How is your daughter going to transport the clippings and where
    is she going to put them ?
    

    RE: equipment, clippings, etc.
    
    For clarification, our son used my 12 HP lawn tractor that has a
    bagging attachment. He would drive to the neighbors, cut the lawn, and
    the clippings would go out with our trash. All for $15.00. I made sure
    my son understood that he would replenish the gas.
    
    He did not set foot on our neighbor's property until I felt confident
    in his driving ability on the tractor.
    
    Kevin

    A few of our neighbors use a professional service that charges $35 per
    cutting.  These lawns probably have about 1/2 acre to mow.  The $35
    includes trimming with a line trimmer, but doesn't include removing
    clippings (they mulch).  So I think in the vicinity of $20 is about
    right if it doesn't include trimming, and the lawns are more like 1/4
    acre.
    
    I used to get $15 to do a neighbor's one-acre lawn, and that was 15
    years ago, so I would think $20 is fairly reasonable these days, even
    for a relatively smaller lawn.
    
    	Steve

My Mom pays $27 in Framingham for a 1/4 acre, mostly level, nothing
complicated; bagged and clippings removed; edge trimming.  Large
service.

I pay $35 in Groton for 1+acre, gently sloped, trimmed. bagged and
clippings dumped in abutting woods.  non-service -- solo, full-service
landscaper.

Was $30 last year.

I received a quote for $20 for same with clippings removed offsite.
Supposedly, this was a non-teeneger, landscaping professional.
I never met the guy; sounded strange on the phone.  price seemed too
low, I was leary of something.  Maybe one of these days, I'll ask
for references and go save some money  :-)

From my (I-pay) perspective, I think it's reasonable to pay a bit more 
for a professional landscaper or lawn service (insurance, full service, 
etc.).  If I were to hire a teenager, I would want the tradeoff
to be in $ savings  -- at least 25% less than the pro's.  I think $20
for what you describe is fine.   $15 if non-bagged.  Trimming expected
in either case.

Times have changed.  I used to mow lawns for the neighbors - mostly elderly
people (guessing at 65+) - my mower & gas -
bagged it and it went in their trash - trimmed, where needed too.   
Cost - $5.00.  All within walking distance of my house.  I had about 5 steady 
customers for two or so years.  I think minium wage was 2 or 3 dollars so if 
I got done in less than 1.5 hours I was ahead of the game (at age 14 I couldn't
officially work anywhere anyway).

bjm

	I live in Tyngsboro, on a 1 acre lot with a long
circular driveway and various patches of lawn.  I'll gladly
pay twice minimum wage to a responsible kid for mowing or
snow-shoveling, and I'll provide the mulching mower and gas
and any other needed implements.  But, in 10 years there, not
once has anyone (of any age) offered to perform the work.

	I do see able-bodied kids begging for money in front
of the supermarkets, though, so that they can play various sports.
I offer my address - no one is interested.  So, to the original 
note writer....if you're nearby...you've got at least one steady
customer.  Alternatively, any other readers got reliable kids?

    RE .69
    
    My son, 19, will come out once a week and mow your lawn. He'll only 
    charge $475. He lives in Nevada..........Sorry......8^)
    
    In the spring, I hired a professional landscaper to rake/dethatch my
    lawn. 11,000 square feet, just under 1/4 acre. He charged $35 dollars.
    It takes me 1 hour (motivationally dependent) to mulch/mow. I don't
    think I'd pay more that $15 bucks to have a neighborhood kid do it.

    re .69
    
    Sorry Tyngsboro is too far.  We live in Milford MA and want to stay
    within a 1 mile radius.  I should say my daughter wants to stay close
    by, and so do I since I will be driving her and helping her.   I have
    offered to help her mow and supervise until she learns to be as
    professional as possible in her work.
    
    She placed about 70 flyers to neighboors yesterday.  She'll probably be
    placing out about 500 flyers to cover the neighborhood.
    
    Thanks...  Mark

Please don't tell my next door neighbor (he is 13) how much other kids 
make...

I pay him $10 to do my 1 Acre flat lot (however only about 1/2 is mowable 
due to the house, woods, landscaping).  Takes him an hour using his tractor 
and gas. (takes me about 3.5)  He mulches.  I give him extra every now and 
then.  Seems reasonable to me and he doesn't complain.

    re: .72
    
    Of course, if his parents charged him for gas and wear-and-tear on the
    tractor, he'd probably be losing money! :-)  But it's probably worth it
    to them to have him doing something constructive and learning the value
    of a buck.  I'd do the same if I had a 13 y.o. kid.
    
    	Steve

        RE: -1

    	The kids parents already know the value of a buck so send them $5
    for gas and wear and tear on their tractor in addition to paying the
    kid his $10.

    Joe

    I need a recommendation for a **RELIABLE** service to cut my lawn every
    Friday during the summer in the Acton, Mass area.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    It is July and I have already gone thru 2 services that JUST DON'T GET
    IT.  They just don't come when they are supposed to and never let us
    know one way or the other. This has nothing to do with weather or our
    yard, or us (for that matter !)...we just want it DONE without having
    to chase anybody.
    
    Any input welcome.