Conference 7.286::home_work

    
      I owned an above ground pool for several years and hope I can
    give you some insight.  I started out with a cartridge filter! Beleive
    me I would never go with that again.  In any case I bought a sand
    filter and found it to be some where near a 200% inprovement for both
    cleaning and maintainence.  At the same time a close friend of mine
    bought a pool and went with a DE type.  If I recall correctly the
    DE style is higher in price but will do a good job.  I would suggest
    if the price difference isn't too large then go with the DE.  But
    I can tell you that a sand type filter did do a very good job. 
      By the way my pool was an eighteen foot round if that information
    might help in making a decission.
    
   
    
    EX-Californian
    
    Ken j.

    GO WITH THE DE FILTER BUT MAKE SURE IT'S A STAINLESS TANK AND THE
    REST SHOULD BE PLASTIC . WATCH THE CHLORINE, IT RAISES HAVIC WITH
    CLOTHE, STEEL, ALUM.,ETC. 
    YOU WON'T BE SORRY. GOOD LUCK AND ENJOY.

    
    Re: .1
    
    Ken or anyone else that may read this,
    
    I've got one of those Cartridge Filters that I see so many
    negative comments about.  And, I'm learning why!!!!!!!
    
    My problem is two fold:
    
    1. I keep breaking the cartridges when I put them in the filter
       system, (2 so far this year).  I was told that I was putting
       the cover on too tight!  How tight should it be?????
    
    2. We have way too much water pressure.  The gauge routinely reads
       10-12 lbs and when the filter gets dirty it climbs as high as
       15 lbs.  (This causes even some of the bigger junk to blow right
       through the filter).  It was recommended by a local pool outlet
       to add DE, it worked for awhile but not anymore.
    
    Any suggestions on how to get the pressure down????????
    
    Shane
    

    This brings up two questions that I have wondered about:
    
    1.  With a sand filter (I have a Jacuzzi), is there a loss of sand
    with each backwash, so that I should maybe check the sand level
    every year to see if it needs topping off?  My pal said that there's
    no loss of sand and he hasn't checked his in 5 years.
    
    2.  Same pal also said that we should be buying new test-kit chemicals
    every year as they 'go bad'.  His pool place told him this, as well
    as the fact that a sand filter never loses sand during backwash.
    
    Pete

1) You do not lose sand when you backwash.

2) You should buy new test chemicals every year.

Mark

    Another pool question...
    
    I have a above ground pool with a leaky pump. The leak SEEMS to
    be around the shaft as it enters the impellar.(plastic housing) 
    Is this something that can be fixed easily or does the seal have
    to be pressed on the shaft with the appropiate tools.
    It was suggested to me to take it to a Electrical motor repair?
     
    Any help with this would be appreciated.
    
    If there is another notes dealing with this type of problem could
    someone point me to it.

    
    Thanks 
    Canuck

    Try Recreation World in Natick, Ma.  I think they do pump repair
    there.
    
    Bill

    
    
    I have a Perflex D.E filter for my pool. The gauge is reading between
    12-15 psi. Is this a normal reading? My pool man say it is. The
    instruction to the filter  say 7-10 psi. There is water shooting
    out of the pool's nozzel. The filter doesn't seem to be clog.
    I drained it twice, but still read 12 psi..Any pool owner experience
    this problem? Thanks in advance
     						 ..HH
    

    12 to 15 PSI does sound a bit high though. As a thought, is the
    backwash valve open all the way? Have you checked for any kinks or
    obstructions in the system's output lines? How old is the system?
    As a final thought, maybe the pressure guage is reading wrong (has it
    always read in this range or just recently).
    
    Eric

    
    The system is brand new. It was installed last October. I had to
    open the pool early so I can get the concrete sidewalk in. When
    I first started the filter it was at 8 psiand I let it run over
    night. I notice in the morning, water wasn't shooting out anymore.
    I look at the gauge it was at 30 psi. I pump the filter and it went
    down to 12-15 psi. I drained it twice so far and the gauge stayed
    at  12 psi. I think the backwash is open all the way. Can the filter
    be clean?  HH
    

    My filter is a little higher than the book says whenever there is
    a lot of Algae being filtered, it needs to be backwashed or it has
    been a few days since it was last backwashed.  The only other time
    it was a problem was if too much DE was put in.  My "guage" was
    to check the water flow on the return valve and go by that.
    
    Serv

    
      Did you say you DRAINED the filter? If you did, did you then put
    in more DE? You MUST put more DE into a DE filter if you backwash
    it. In fact, it's not really called backwashing when you do that
    to a DE filter, because it drains the DE out. The pressure will
    quickly rise if you run the filter without any DE in it. I have
    a Perflex filter, and in the paperwork it says not to run the filter
    more than a minute without DE in it. Normal pressure for mine is
    ~10 psi when clean, ~20 psi when it needs "bumping". 
    
    					Kenny

    
    <.4>  Yes, I drained my filter and added 9 cans of DE (15oz soup
    can..I couldn't find a 1lb coffee can) back into the filter. It
    still reads 12 psi...when it reach 19 to 20 psi its time to pump
    the filter. Do you think I am using the wrong size can? Thanks
    for all the help..HH
     

    Watch out for those oz's (weight vs liquid volume).
    
    Eric

    
      As I recall, a 1lb. coffee can will hold .7 lbs of DE. I hope
    you realize that the filter can be regenerated MANY times before
    you need to replace the DE. Of course it does depend upon how dirty
    or algae-filled your water is. A good rule of thumb is to change
    the DE when the time from a low filter pressure to a high filter
    pressure becomes too short for you to be around to regenerate it.
    It is also possible that the inside of your filter needs to be cleaned.
    There are special additives that you put into the filter and let
    soak to clean any grease etc. off the fingers. (inside the filter)
    Bio-Guard makes one called Quick Strip. This should normally be
    done once a year. The fingers on the Perflex filters are basically
    cloth-covered, after a season of use the pores in the cloth tend
    to get clogged-up. This reduces the efficiency and DOES/will keep
    the clean-filter pressure higher than normal.
    	 The Perflex filters a spec'd for 1 lb. of DE per 10 sq ft.
    of filter area. 
    
    					Kenny

    I'd say that a 15oz soup can is probably a LOT smaller than a 1lb
    coffee can.  
    
    My pressure is usually around 12-15 psi, going up to around 20 when
    the DE is clogged.  When I first open the pool in the spring, the
    DE gets clogged real fast; like within hours.  I generally end up
    backflushing and adding new DE twice within the first couple of
    weeks.
    
    I think the size of your pump probably effects the pressure.  A
    bigger pump will create more pressure.  Also, if you have a removeable
    nozzle on the water inlet to the pool, removing it could reduce the 
    backpressure. 

    Steve

    I think I can tell you what's going on.
    
    Just for fun, drain your DE filter.  Then take the thing apart and
    look at how much DE is left in the filter.  My experience has been
    that there is plenty of DE still inside, so that when you  put in
    the replacement material, you are really overfilling it.
    
    BTW, I have a Hayward DE filter.
    
    BC
    
    

re: < Note 3204.9 by MAGIC::COTE >

I must agree with Bill. I have a Hayward also and find that seven 40 oz. juice
cans is the right fill (seven pounds of earth). When I service the filter in
the fall, after backwashing and flushing I dismantle the thing and hose LOTS
of clogged earth out from between the fingers. Obviously, during the season
I've flushed and regenerated several times but the fill has been constantly
exceeding seven pounds. My unit runs at 7-10psi with no earth at all, 15psi
after a bump and starts to strain (little water movement) at about 20-25psi.
As someone mentioned, ya gotta flush and regenerate if the time between
bumps gets real short - I figure that limit is anything less than 4 hours.
I also have a lucite fitting between my pump and tank so I can see the
color of the filtration media when I've bumped it. When I regen it's all
white, but when it's time to flush it's quite brown. I generally regen the
tank about once every two weeks for the first month and then once a month
during the summer, so a large bag of DE (25 lbs?) lasts me a long time.

-Jack

    
    Re .10
   
      Why do you think that 7lbs. of DE is correct for your filter?
    I also have a Hayward Perflex filter which is an EC65 (65 sq. ft
    of filtering area). It says in the instructions to add ~1 lb DE
    for each 10 sq. ft. of filtering area. The reason I ask about the
    amount of DE that you're adding is that I've found almost NO difference
    in the filter pressure between empty (of DE) and with the 6-7 lbs.
    in it. Because of the high(er) psi reading that you get (see below)
    it seems to me you may be adding too much. 
    
    	My system pressure:
    				Filter empty (but cleaned)	8 psi
    				Filter charged with DE		10 psi
    				Needs bumping (not much coming	20 psi
    							out)
    
    Note that these pressures are also dependent to some extent on other
    factors too, like:
    
    		The power and efficiency of your pump
    		How many INLETS you have (I have 3 inlets)
    		How many outlets you have and what are the sizes of
    			jets. (these cause backpressure)
    		If the DE filter fingers are cleaned of grease/scale
   			buildup - NOT done by just rinsing the DE from
    			them. (you must use a product like BioGuard
    			QuickStrip)
    
      I find a big diff. in the pressure (lower) when the filter is
    REALLY clean, like after it has been chemically cleaned.
    
    					Kenny

re: < Note 3204.11 by CSMET2::CHACE "let's go fishin'" >

>      Why do you think that 7lbs. of DE is correct for your filter?

    Only because that's what the guy told me when they installed the system.

    Other than that, it's a 1 horse motor, 1 inlet 2 outlets with eyeballs
   in 'em. I've never chemically treated it (5th season coming up).

    -Jack

    I also have a Hayward EC65 and (after just having set it up this
    weekend) the empty pressure was less than 10 PSI and after charging
    it went up to 15.  The guy who originally set it up told me to charge
    it with 9 pounds, the first time you charge it after taking it apart
    and cleaning it, and use 7 pounds after backwashing.  The bag of
    DE I use has the exact same numbers on a chart on the bag.

    
    SJG

    I had exactly the same problem that you described in .2. I had my pool
    installed in sept 87, I opened it early may 88 to have the concrete
    deck poured. The filter kept building pressure overnight exactly the
    way you described. I dismantled the filter and found that it was
    clogged with DE, concrete and dirt from around the pool. I cleaned the
    filter (no easy job), reassembled it and recoated with DE it ran fine
    all last summer, although the pressure was always between 10 - 15 psi. 
    
    Dave

NOTE: The following was also entered in the ASKENET NOTESfile, but to no avail.
      Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


***************************************************************************

G'day from the Great White North:

	Since the ice and snow have finally melted in my swimming pool
and I managed to break up the beaver lodge that was constructed in the 
middle of the pool, I have started to vacuum the debris.  I'm using
a model SJ-1836, Hoover vacuum cleaner with power nozzle and swimming
pool beater bars.  My problem is with the beater bars.  Normally,
in a vinyl-lined pool the setting is the same as for a hardwood floor
but the power nozzle isn't picking-up any of the debris on the bottom
of the pool.  It's difficult to tell what the problem is as my face
mask gets fogged-up rapidly and I have to come to the surface for air
every 3 minutes; however, I thought that some of you pool owners
might have had a similar experience and that you might have a solution,
as it were.

	BTW there seems to be a minor electrical problem as well since
I noticed a mild tingleing feeling each time I started the vacuum cleaner
underwater.  Should I start it before getting in the water or after?


	Finally, I need to find a source for waterproof bags, the ones that
I'm using now were a temporary replacement until I could get the correct ones.
Unfortunately, they get very soggy and tear, and spill their contents back
into the pool.  Any suggestions?

Best regards,

Pat

	Spags carries replacement beater bars and bags.

	BTW, in this country (I don't know about Canada), it's a Federal 
offense to dismantle beaver housing.  Did you obtain the necessary permits for
this action?  Talk to your building inspector.

	Re: electrical problem-- are you using a properly installed GFI?  I
had a similar problem when trying to gather wet leaves with my Shop-Vac until
I installed a GFI.  No problem now.

	--Mike

    It's apparent that one of your problems is that your vaccum isn't
    getting enough current, I'd have a 100 amp sub panel installed by
    the pool and tap directly off the inputs, forget the fuses!, also
    you might try adding salt to the pool to help the grounding of the
    vacuum.      
    
    
    

    Pat,
    You might want to run down to your local CT store and pick up a
    box of snow bags and vacuum adaptor kit. They won't get soggy like
    the dry bags.
    
    Jim

    For faster leaf vacuuming, at least in a 4' deep vinyl pool,
    I have found over the years that "borrowing" one of those
    tubes from golfers was a quick trick.  I slip the tube
    into the hose and turn on the pool pump to backwash....
    start with a very full pool....then just guide the tube
    around the bottom of the pool and the leaves, gunk, and
    large clumps go whooshing through the system and out the
    backwash onto the ground.  You do use up a lot of water,
    that's why it's a good idea to have an overfull pool.  Use
    the leaf rake to get out the heavy masses first.  Let the
    water settle and go to it!  

    justme....jacqui

    RE: .0
    
    You know, that electrical problem you described sounds a lot like
    the problem I have when I'm removing algae from the sides and bottom
    of the pool.  Every year I go to the local rental place and get
    one of those floor sanders and a bunch of course sand paper.  
    
    Basically, I throw the sander into the pool, jump in after it (I'm
    always careful to have a surical mask on), and then I flip the switch
    and hold on.  I do get some tingling sensation, but because I'm
    concentrating on keeping the sander moving (don't want to wear out
    the liner), it doesn't really bother me.
    
    re: a couple back
    
    I've used the vacuum on the DE equivalent of backwash to clean up
    after the deck was poured and found it worked very well.  However,
    the basket in the filter assembly, just in front of the impeller,
    kept getting filled up with various kinds of pool debris, so I just
    removed it.  Leaves and branches don't seem to give the impeller
    too much trouble, but sometimes the vaccuum sucks up these little
    frogs and toads......   They do make it through and end up coming
    out of the backwash hose, but they look only slightly better then
    when I ride over them with my lawn-tractor.
    
    Speaking of my tractor, one year, I put the bagging attachment on,
    topped off the fuel tank, selected the appropriate gear, and drove
    it into the pool.  My thinking was that I could bag all the leaves
    and things with the tractor and not have the electrical problem
    reported in .0.    Well, it did work pretty well, except that when
    I was done, I couldn't go up the slope from the deep end fast enough
    to jump the tractor out of the pool.  I finally figured out that
    the weight of the collected leaves in the bagger was holding me
    down, and once I dumped the leaves back onto the bottom of the pool
    I was able to go fast enough to get the tractor out.  
    
    Recently I've been carefully watching how EXXON is cleaning up that
    spill in Alaska.  As soon as I can get my wife to agree, I'm going
    to  get one of those oil skimmers......
    
    
    BC
    

    RE. last few --- Please, all of you, please please make me a
    beneficiary in your insurance policies!!!!

    Before you blithely jump into the pool with a vacuum cleaner or belt
    sander or drill you should make a couple of choices.

    Are you willing to spend the few extra minutes to make certain that all
    the circuit breakers and Ground Fault Interrupters are functioning
    properly and are you willing to spend the few extra minutes to check
    out your tools to make certain they are in good repair and the right
    ones for the job and get your family/friends to act as "life guards"
    while you do this job -- OR -- are you willing to take the chance that
    the next time it might be more than "Just a little tingle".

re:.6

Steve - your sarcasm/humor detection circuits seem to have blown a fuse.  
Replace the fuse and re-read.

Paul

    If your pump is having problems with branches and rodents, you might
    try this DIY trick that worked wonders for me.  Unbolt your whole-house
    fan and throw it into the pool.  Run it on high for 30 to 40 minutes
    to chop up all the debris, then resume filtering.  I've found that
    once the pool is clean, I can use the same setup as an inexpensive
    Jacuzzi... just watch your feet!
    
    For that really big party, you can fill the pool with rum, fruit
    juice and ice to make a frozen Daiquiri that just won't quit!

    Steve

I'm surprised no one has mentioned how useful an air shredder can be 
for cleaning a pool. It is especially nice to use when you purchase 
the optional pool adaptor. 

Be sure to reinstall the original filter and move all overrides to 
original position before putting the shredder back into the chimney.

John H.

    re. .0-10
    
    The highlight of the Week!!!!
    
    
    Don't ya just love it?
    
    Jim
    
    This is the way to start off one of the Best Holidays of the year.

    	Just so you'll know what your dealing with, Pat Rushton has
    been known to inflate his tires by farting into them using the 1AH
    Bottom Adapter from Canadian Tire....
    
    	So my advice is to take anything he writes with a grain of salt,
    as it were....
    
    Glenn ;-)

    re.8
    Ya beat me out! I would like to add that a commercial grade air
    shredder is indicated due to the extreme conditions encountered in out-door
    useage.
                                                       
    -j

    I looked all around my house, garage, and yard yesterday, and I
    can't find my air shredder.  I should have one (I've got just about
    every other neat house thingie), but where is it.  I guess my neighbor
    could have borrowed it.  If he did, then I better start looking
    for a new one because he never returns anything (unless it didn't
    work).
    
    I know Spags has them near the outdoor furniture department, but
    I really like Sears products.  What size should I get?
    
    BC
    
    

    
    Don't have any specific numbers, but with all the hot air around
    your way if I were you I'd get the biggest size I could afford.

Depends on what you're after.  If you want large capacity (you want to shovel
a lot of ... it quickly), the the XL.  If you want fine granularity (you want
... it bite-sized pieces), get the XF.

Sears is OK, but I'm pretty sure theirs is _not_ a Craftsman, so if you ...ulp
bite off more than you can chew, and it busts on you, no money back.  That's
the way the ... crumbles.

You people using air shredders to dice your pool debris are just asking for 
trouble.  These things are designed to shred air (albiet heavy air), not 
assorted leaves, sticks, toads, and bloated woodchuck corpses.  You'll probably 
wreck a perfectly good shredder.  Even if it survives, you'll probably damage 
the blades, and when you put it back in your chimney it will no longer shred 
the air completely, and will probably fling large chucks of heavy air around 
your basement, creating quite a hazard.  If the insurance company ever finds
out that you used the shredder to dice pool debris, they'll never pay up when
the heavy air chunks give someone a consussion.

Personally I find that it's best if I use the rototiller first.  You need a 
special snorkel hose on the carburator to let it run on the bottom of the 
pool, but at least there's no danger of electrocution.  I find that it chops up 
all the large debris pretty well.  If you want it real fine then just put one 
of those mulching attachments on your lawnmower and take that for a spin around 
the pool.  Don't forget the snorkel hose.

Paul

Ditto on .17, but I don't know about the rototiller, either.  I believe in
the right tool for the job, and this clearly calls for a water shredder. 
It will also improve the texture of your pool water.  Nothing ickier than
swimming in lumpy water.

   Gary

    I just got off the phone with a friend that has a 150 Merc out board
    motor for his ski boat. Sat. morning he is bringing the boat and
    motor over to my house. I'm renting a crane so we can lift the motor
    off and lower it into the pool. I have to build a steel structure
    to attach the motor too, the boat too big for my 15' dia pool. I'm
    sure after a few minutes of 6K+ buzzes with the Merc I'll have no
    problem vacuuming up the shreaded leaves, frogs and the neighbor's
    cat. 
    
    Jim............the don't call me the "Mad Weldor" for nothing.
                                                            
    
    now for my question: do you think I should turn the motor on an
    angle to swirl the stuff to the center? and chemicals should I
    use to clear up the oil slick left by the exhaust? At least I won't
    have any of those nasty misquitos hatching in the scum anymore....:-)
                                               

    
    Why bother with all these labor intesive mechanical devices.  Do
    it electronically.  Just borrow your elecric range and lower into
    the pool.  Turn the dial to SELF CLEAN and amuse yourself while
    all the debris turns to a small amount of clean white powder.
    In addition to being clean, the water will be warn enough for some
    early season swimming.
    
    - gene

    No problem, with the assorted debris in my pool anymore......
    
    
    My wife just called and said that when my daughter was backing her
    car around in the driveway........yup, you guessed it....instant
    flood (to go along with the 4.9 inches of rain we just got)
    
    I guess I'll just get out the mower/bagger and clean up the debris.
    
    Looks like and nice way to spend the Holiday..
    
    Jim...now I'm the MAD Weldor!

    One of the "non-HOME_WORK" guys in my group suggested using a leaf
    blower to get the junk out of the bottom of the pool.  I'm sure
    someone here has had some experience with this type of device.
    
    Could I introduce some sort of aquatic animal that will actually
    eat whatever is in pool?
    
    If you think about it, in the spring a pool is really a big biology
    experiment, and then in the summer it becomes a chemistry experiment.
    It's a wonderful way to teach your children about these sciences.
    
    BC
    

    	re. .22
    
    		A 200 lb. Sturgeon would do the job quite well or several
    dozen small Sturgeons (5 Kg range). The only problem is trying to
    get a hold of one of those suckers!
    
    	If sturgeons don't appeal to your pool guests then maybe you
    should consider getting a platypuss. They don't eat all that much
    but they're kind of cute little things to have around and they make
    for very provocative poolside conversation.
    
    	Another idea would be to fill the pool with large rocks and
    earth topped off with a colorful arrangement of flowers and shrubs.
    This could be the solution to the whole dilemma.......
    
    Glenn ;-)

	Thank you, to all who provided me with valuable suggestions to my
pool problem.  I'm now able to resolve part of the debris situation.  First,
I found a supplier for removing small animals BEFORE they get into the pool -
it's a device made by Cuisinart that fits into the skimmer basket.  Storage
jars are an option but the idea of having creamed toad or jellied mouse has
a certain appeal to it.  Secondly, the idea of using a stove on SELF CLEAN
is good but I have a problem with that - you see my wife likes to knit and
a few years ago I bought her a gift of 200 lbs. of steel wool with which
she promptly knit us a stove.  Unfortunately, she didn't knit-in the SELF
CLEAN function.  Finally, my kids had a solution that I feel will resolve
all of my woes - they suggested that all of the neighbours come over to the
pool armed with drinking straws and blow bubbles into it, I could then
remove the debris as it froths to the surface.  Additionally, I could add
about 500 gallons of Tequila to kill the algae (or at least make it happy).







	For those of you who still think that this is a serious topic - take
a Valium.  Mr. Moderator, we should close this topic before it gets silly.

>  Mr. Moderator, we should close this topic before it gets silly.
    
    Considering that Mr. Primo Moderator himself entered one of the
    silliest replies, don't hold your breath.
    
    	- DCL_the_slightly_less_silly_moderator_who_couldn't_figure_out_
    	  a_way_to_bring_cordless_tools_into_the_discussion

Fusion in a pool...  May not solve your debris problem, but think of the 
energy you can generate!   

Bob

    	(I haven't seen any questions directed towards pump motor
    maintenance since I've been scanning this file but if this needs
    to be re-located, Mr. Moderator please feel free to do so.)
    
    	I'm a new pool owner with an above ground pool that I had installed
    by the pool company. I have a sand filter with a GE 1.5 HP pump.
    The pump runs good for awhile but twice now the pump has quit running
    on me. Each time, I had the pump running, turned off the power for
    a moment and then upon re-starting the pump it only hums and won't
    pump the water thru the filter. I took it back to the dealer the
    first time and he said it was packed with sand. This time I pulled
    it apart and cleaned out the sand but that didn't get running again.
    
    	I've only had this pool for a month so I'm a little concerned
    about the quality of the motor ( and if its not the motor the level
    of maintenance 8^)...). Anybody got any ideas on what the problem
    could be and how to fix it?

    
   Thanks,
    Al

    I can't think of a reason that a normal functioning pump would suck
    sand out of your filter.  If you've only had the system for a month,
    I'd get the people who sold you the setup to come out and look at
    it on site.  That's the only way they're going to find out why sand
    gets into the pump.  

    There is definitely not supposed to be sand in the pump.
    Water goes from the pool to the pump via the skimmer, to the
    filter and back to the pool.  The pump pushes water through
    the filter, so there is no way the sand should be in the
    pump.  Sounds like something, make that everything is
    connected in reverse and the pump is pulling rather than
    pushing water through the filter.  Check all of the hose
    connections.  There is an error.

    As for the motor.  It sounds as if it may have had it.  If
    it is not bound up and only hums and does not start, it is
    either a bad winding or bad centrifugal/starting switch.  You
    might try a motor shop.  They might be less apt to simply
    sell you a new motor rather than repair.  Although new may be
    less expensive.

    Regards, Peter Duke

  If the problem is the centrifical switch, then by turning the drive belt
by hand (in quick motions) you should be able to get the motor going.  If in
fact this is the case, then my one experience with this type switch would 
dictate that the hardest part of the repair is finding a replacement switch.
In my case that wasn't too bad.  I had a brand name motor and the local
pump dealer had the parts in stock.

Al

    The only way that the pump could pull water THROUGH the filter rather
    than pumping it into the filter was for the flow to be reversed, either
    an electrical problem or a wrong part in the motor/impeller (ie CCW
    instead of CW). Since your pump isn't 3 phase, it should only be able
    to spin one way, even with the hot/neutral (110V) reversed. If you can
    free the pump up, see if the output from the filter is pushing water
    out or sucking it in (it should be going out, with the intake coming
    from the skimmer).
    
    Eric

    	Thanks for all the good information. I thought perhaps the sand
    was being picked up or blown in from the sand the installer laid
    around the pool. My real concern with this is:
    	1. I don't want to keep dismantling the pump for maintenance
    &   2. I don't want to get stuck buying a new motor for a brand
    new pool.
    
    	I thought that I would pour a concrete pad for the pump and
    lift it up and away from the sand around the pool. I'll probably do
    that anyway but it sounds like these problems shouldn't be happening
    with a new pump and aren't particularly normal problems. If thats
    true then I think I'll press the pool company for a new motor under
    the warrenty. BTW I bought this pool from Seasonal in Nashua - Has
    anyone had any problems with these people? I've had good experience
    with Seasonal with other things I bought there so I can't imagine
    this would be a problem.
    
    I'll post a note here letting you know what happens.
    
    Al
   

    Since the impeller only allows water in, I can't see how sand from
    OUTSIDE the pool could get into the skimmer and into the pump. This is
    where I assume that the sand is located, and not in the armature
    housing.
    
    Eric

    	The sand did get into the armature housing but in any event
    the manager at Seasonal replaced the pump under the warrenty. His
    reply was that it was crazy to be fooling around with a defective
    pump on a new pool. As for where the sand came from or whatever
    caused the problems he said that I wasn't the only one to experience
    this problem...3 other pumps out of approx. 200 had failed.
    
    I hope this is the end to the problems and the beginning to the
    fun season!
    
    
    thanks again
    Al

    This makes a little more sense. I think most of the replies assumed
    that the impeller was jamming rather than the motor itself. Since many
    types of castings use sand in the molds, it may have been a
    manufacturing defect, or if it was a LOT of sand, perhaps the cooling
    fan was sucking it in to the housing.
    
    Eric

    Instead of hiring a pool company to close my in ground pool for
    the season, I thought I might try it myself. Seems the 'professionals'
    use a large air compressor to blow out the water in the underground
    lines to avoid freezing and splitting the lines during the winter. 
    
    Has anyone found a way to 'blow out' the underground lines without
    renting an industrial size air compressor ? ie; how 'bout the exhaust
    side of a shop vac ??
    
    Opinions, suggestions ????  Jim.

    I use a vaccuum cleaner (in blow-mode, of course) to empty all the
    lines.  For the filter intake lines, I just stick the vaccuum hose
    where the pool lines enter the pump basket.  My pool has a skimmer and
    a side wall drain with valves for each line.  So I just shut down one
    line and blow out the other.  For the return lines,  I just disconnect
    the lines from the filter and blow them both out at the same time.  As
    soon as I see a good stream a bubbles coming I put a plug in.  
    
    The Skimmer isn't as straight forward.  I pump the pool down until the
    water level is about 6" below the face-plate of the skimmer.   This
    leaves about 3" of water in the bottom of my skimmer.  I put a small
    submersable (sic) pump in to get as much  of the remaining water out as
    possible.  Then I blow out the skimmer line.  Once the majority of
    water is out, then I put in the Gizmo to seal it.
    
    As far a anti-freeze goes, I pour about a gallon into the skimmer to
    prevent the water that gathers in the skimmer from freezing.  I also
    use a funnel that has a goose-neck on it to get anti-freeze into the
    plugged return and intake lines.  Be sure to use a water-soluable
    anti-freeze.  Prestone and the other car anti-freezes are quite toxic.
    
    The anti-freeze I use is Red in color and it makes for a real side show
    when I open the pool.  All this red stuff goes shooting into the pool
    when you start the filter.  I tell the neighbor kids that it's from all
    the dead worms and frogs that got sucked into the filter.  They never
    ask to swim in my pool.....
    
    If you have any questions, give me a call at 381-2767.
    
    Bill
    
    

    I am planning on closing my own pool for the first time this year
    as well.  I would like a couple more answers, if possible.
    
    What kind and amount of shock do you put in to winterize? (I have
    a 20,000 gallon pool)
    
    Should I add anything else to the pool?
    
    Serv

    My pool company says to get the water perfect and clean before closing,
    so it's easy and quick to open the pool in the spring.  I figure that
    if the water was perfect and clean in the fall, it will look like s--t
    in the spring regardless.  therefore, I don't spend a lot of time and
    money in the fall on chemicals. 
    
    I toss in 3 packets of "Burnout 35" (non-mix shock) and about 16 fl oz
    of "Back-up Algicide". 
    
    Another little trick I use is during the pump-down activity.  I use the
    pool filter to pump the unwanted water out.  So, I just hook up the
    vaccuum, and give the pool a good vaccuuming.  This takes all the dirt 
    and pushes it out the drain hose.  Basically you're accomplishing two
    things at once.
    
    I also fill the "water-logs" with water from the pool.  I do this
    first, before other pool closing chore.  With the filter running, I
    hold the water-log opening over one of the return jets.  This puts
    fairly clean water into the log  and it's also a good use for water
    that is just going to pumped out of the pool.
    
    Bill
    
     

    I didn't see a reference to the pipe that goes to the bottom drain.  I
    always plug that and fill it with air.  The plug has an air fitting on
    it, I use a bike tire pump to pump that full of air until I see bubbles
    coming from the bottom drain.
    
    I never use any antifreeze (10 years, so far).
    
    After putting the plug into the bottom drain pipe, I vacuum the water
    out of the skimmer and the pipe to the filter, then put in the gizmo.
    
    Unscrew the plugs from the bottom of the basket and pump, hose out the
    filter elements -- actually that depends on my help, sometimes I leave
    it for spring.  Use the blower side of the shop vac to blow out the
    lines and plug them up.
    
    I add 5 gallons of liquid clorine to the pool water and put the cover
    one.
    
    The pool is 22000 gallons 21'x38'x8'
    
    ed

    Do you recal where you got the plug with air fitting ??
    
    Sounds like a nifty gadget, although the bike pump sounds like alot of
    work... But I do have a small 12v compressort for those 'emergency'
    flat tires... that would do the trick if I could find the plug w/
    fitting. Thanks, Jim.

    The plug with air fitting is a home made thing -- some of the pool
    closing companies make them and charge an arm and a leg for them.
    You can make your own by buying a plastic pipe plug -- assuming
    your bottom drain pipe is threaded -- of the right size and
    buy an air fitting from an auto parts place, it'll have the standard
    shraeder air valve on one end and threads on the other.  You then drill
    the plug to be the right size.  I suppose the next problem is to
    tap the hole you just drilled, hmmm, I never had to do that, and
    then use tape solder to screw the air fitting into the plug.
    
    The 12V compressor will work fine if you can get the power source
    close to the pool.  (Some folks "just happen" to have bike pumps
    all over the place :^).)
    
    ed

    What is the strength of the chlorine you use for winterizing?
    
    Serv

    regarding chlorinating at closing...I use 12% liquid for all shocking.
    I only use one gallon for my 23,000 gallon pool.  I'm not sure why five
    gallons would be necessary.  The chlorine isn't going to last that long
    anyway.  The dealer told me he thought shocking at closing time was a
    waste because it only lasts about a week at best.  Anyone had any
    experience with NOT shocking a pool at closing?  

    My pool company will be by on Oct 11th to close my pool. They stated
    that the warranty on the liner would be become null and void if I
    didn't let them(a professional) close the pool...Pool was installed in
    Sept 88..When they opened the pool this summer to finsih up the
    contract(test lines, run pump,etc), I asked how the water was drained
    from the bottom line...They said "we blow it out with air and the drain
    has some kind of valve that stays closed". There is no screw in plug on
    the bottom drain....Does this sound correct???
    
    They did chlorine and shock pool before closing and when they opened it
    up in April....there wasn't a leaf,dirt or anything in the water...Pool
    filter ran 4 hours and water WAS crystal clear...
    
    Can I do these things myself??
    
                                			john
    		

    Re. -1 price for closing this year is 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    $150.00
    
    
    and I think it's $$$$$ again if they open it next spring...
    
    
    					Is this sounding correct?
    
    
    							john

    THE FEE FOR CLOSING MY POOL 10 years ago was about $200, 22000 gal
    gunite.  The pool itself was about $10K plus 2.5K for the deck.
    
    I use 5 gal of chlorine because that's what the pool company used
    the one time they closed it.  What does it need?  I don't know and
    I only close it as a favor for someone else now, it's no longer mine.
    
    re:.11  I wouldn't be surprised if they screw in one of the things
    I described in .7.  Though I seem to remember having some fancy bottom
    drain things described to me when I was shopping for the pool.
    
    ed

    > ...... 22000 gal gunite. ........ someone else now, it's no longer
    > mine.
    
    How'd they move it?  With or without the water?
    
    :-)
    
    John

     This is my first year with an inground pool. I got closing instructions
     from the contractor and they don't advocate removing any water from the
     pool when closing. According to the instructions, keeping the water at 
     operating level helps to keep the pressure equalized. Normally I guess 
     you would drain the pool below the skimmer and screw in the gizzmo. 

     The instructions further state to add one gallon of pool antifreeze per 
     line and don't mention blowing out the lines first. I feel extremely uneasy
     about this especially since everything I've read states you must blow
     the lines before adding the antifreeze. 
     
     Should I disregard the instructions and blow the lines? Should I keep
     the water line below the skimmer?
     
     Also, the caps I have for the return lines are simple pvc screw on
     ends. Is this sufficient, or is there a spring loaded washer/plug that
     should be installed behind the cap to act as a freeze plug?
     

re: -.1

my inground is now closed and i don't do any draining or blowing out of 
lines and leave the water level as is.  

i drain the filter and put in some motor goop for the bearing.
then i put in a gizmo and plug the holes in the pool for inlet/outlet.
pour in a few gallons of shock (probably gone long before spring).
cover.

the only key here is to have plastic lines and don't plug the pool holes 
until the filter's done.

craig

    re: .16   interesting method for closing, I haven't heard that one yet,
    but if it works for you thats great.
    
    I wonder why you cap the lines if you don't lower thw ater level. I
    thought capping the liones was to prevent watering from entering.... ?
    
    Also, my underground skimmer line had a leak in it and the line was
    replaced this summer. The new line is only about a foot under the
    ground so I am definately going to blow dry and antifreeze that one
    anyway.
    
    Jim

>    I wonder why you cap the lines if you don't lower thw ater level. I
>    thought capping the liones was to prevent watering from entering.... ?

what they told me at mccarthy pool was, 1) plastic lines can just handle 
the frozen expansion if they are open at one end (the filter end), and 2) 
the plugs in the pool end prevent the pool from draining should a rupture 
occur, somehow, in a line.

does sound a little contradictory doesn't it??

craig

    re: .15 -- No I don't own the property that the pool sits on either :-)
    
    I was told to lower the water level and keep it below the tiles on the
    top 6 inches of the wall so that ice cannot get in behind the tiles and
    force them loose.   This has not failed yet, so I've always done it.
    
    ed

    My brother installed and serviced at least 200 pools including mine
    when he was in the business. You will get 100 different views on
    "how to" open and close vinyl lined inground pools. He had (now
    I have it) an extra pump cover with a threaded hole in the middle
    and would place it on the pump and hook up vac to it. With all the
    valves open he would start the vac and systematically plug up the
    return lines after he saw the bubbles, once one is plugged the others
    start bubbling then the last is the skimmer. Take out all the plugs
    from the filter and pump housing and blow them out. I have been
    doing this since 72 and no problems. I have a solid cover which
    helps keep the water cleaner than a mesh cover. Just started this
    year replacing some of my (pain in the a**) water bags with gallon
    water jugs and cinder blocks, (no they won't fall in) they are far
    back from the coping.

    My pump will not draw water from the intakes!  I had a problem with the
    electrical on the motor and had to disassemble it.  Once the electrical
    was repaired (I took it to an electrical shop) I reassemble it.  There
    was only one piece which had to be inserted between the motor and the
    pumb housing.  It basically had a slot on the bottom which accepted a
    "male" connection from the pump.  When I turn the pump on it just
    recirculates the water it was primed with.  An ideas?
    
    BTW.  The intake valves are open.
    
    Thanks in advance, Rob. 

    Might sound a little too simple, but is the outlet plugged?  When
    starting mine a couple of weeks ago, I forgot that I had plugged the
    outlet line where it comes into the pool.  (the water spraying out of
    all the connections on the filter served as a quick reminder).
    
>   When I turn the pump on it just recirculates the water it was primed with.
    
    Not sure what you mean by this - recirculates it where?  Is the filter
    above the level of the pool?  Does the water you primed it with drain
    back through the inlet lines?

    The plugs have all been removed.  The pump was actually working for two
    day before the electrical blew.  What I mean by recirculating the pump
    water is that the water that I use for primeing is pulled into the pump but
    is not expelled through the outlets (ie. backwash hose). I think the
    reason this water recirculates though the pump instead of being pushed out 
    is because there is no water and water pressure entering the pump.  Hope 
    this is a little clearer.  Thanks again, Rob.

      Have you tried re-priming the pump? I've had balky pumps that have
      had to be re-primed a number of times  before  the  prime  finally
      "took". You may have to "prime" with enough water to displace most
      of the air that may be in the in take line.  This might be  easier
      if  you  can  block  the  intake line at the pool end.  Prime with
      plenty of water and unblock the line just before you fire  up  the
      pump. 
      
      Don't know if this will work, but it may be worth a try.

    Has anyone had any experience with pool ionization purification
    systems?  I am suddenly seeing ads by pool companies advertising them -
    for $1500 on a new pool.  I have an article from a newspaper from
    several years ago that said they are inexpensive and easy to install
    yourself, but with no real detail.  For those of you who are
    unfamiliar with them, they purify your pool water with electricity, and
    supposedly cut your chemical usage by 95%.  The electricity is low
    voltage - safe - and supposedly only costs 2-3 cents/day.
    

    I spoke to the store where I bought my hot tub and were trying to sell
    me a unit for that  called an "ozinator"(sp)...It supposedly was
    connected into the filter lines and "purified" the tub water, thus,
    less chlorine or bromide...I never bought it...If I remember..that unit
    for jacuzzi's/nit tubs sold for 450.00
    
    
    								j

The article starts out:
  "The cost to operate an ozonator for a swimming pool is about the same as
operating a 100- to 150-watt light bulb and less for a small spa. Depending on
the ozonator size, it can reduce the need for pool chemicals from 50 percent to
95 percent, and provide a much cleaner and healthier pool or spa."

And ends with:
  "Write to me for Utility Bills Update No. 337 showing a list of manufacturers
of pool and spa purifying ozonators, and detailed information on both a
spa-sized and a swimming pool-sized ozonator. Please include $1 and a
self-addressed envelope, and mail to New Hampshire Sunday News, 6906 Royalgreen
Drive, Cincinnati, Ohio, 45244."

						Trace

    I've done a dir/title="pool" in this conference and in the CONSUMER
    notes file and did not find any references related to my inquiry.
    
    I would like recommendations, descriptions, and names of various pool
    cleaning devices that automatically sweep a pool of debris and algae
    which accumulate on the sides and bottom.  I have a 21' above groud round
    pool with a D.E. filter.

    
    Del is a big name in ozonators for spas. They have a small model for up
    to 200 gallons that uses 23 watts of electricity. You run it 24 hours a
    day. It's $299. With the amount of bromine I use it would take almost
    10 years to pay for itself. I'll wait for the price reduction.
    
    CdH
    

    I have a new in-ground pool that is 18'X38'. The capacity is 25,000
    gallons. I am new to pool maintenance and was wondering if someone 
    could give me a primer in backwashing. What processes do you follow 
    to do backwashing? How often should it be done?  Any other information
    you could share would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Regards,

    I am a first timer to pools also. I did my first backwash a week ago.
    My pool is 17x34 and holds about 18,500 gallons. These are the steps
    the pool company told me.
    
    When to backwash about 3 time per season or when the filter presure
    reaches 18-25 lbs. normal running presure is 10 lbs.
    
    Step 1
    		Shut off the pump and close the value to the outlet jets.
    		Unroll the backwash hose (and open the valve if you have
    		one)
    
    Step 2	
    		Turn on the pump for about 1 minute or until the water
    		exiting the hose it clear. I did this twice to make sure
    		that the filter was clean.
    
    Step 3 
    		Open the valve to the outlet jets (Valve that was closed in
    		step 1). Make sure you are ready to add new DE. Open
    		Skimmer. Turn pump on and pour the DE into the Skimmer
    		as fast as it will take it. I pour 7 coffee cans full
    		into mine. 
    
    Step 4
    
    		Jump in!  The procedure takes about 5 minutes.
                                                              
HM

    Correction in my .7 reply. The Valve I shut off in Step 1 was directly
    in front of my filter. I think it closes the water coming in from the
    skimmer. 
    
    

    Maybe it's changed .... but in my days of pool maintenance, it was
    backwashing about 1/week.  More often if the pool is very dirty, and
    anytime after vaccuuming or removing/filtering a 'lot' of debris/dirt.
    
    What it is?  When your pump is on in normal 'filter' mode, the water
    flows through the pump, through many filters.  (usually) each filter is
    successively finer than the one(s) before it.  After a period of time,
    the filters become clogged - small bugs, dirt, anything that passes the
    skimmer basket(s) is trapped in the filters.  So .... after a while
    this affects the performance of everything, as now the water has a
    harder time passing through the pump, causing the pump to work harder,
    and your filtering quality is decreased.
    
    Backwashing REVERSES the flow of water through the filters.  Thus all
    the crud that has been trapped on one side of the filter is pushed off
    of the filters and out your drain/backwash hose.  When backwashing, you
    should make sure that the water runs as clear as the water in your pool
    for 2-3 minutes to be sure you've thoroughly cleaned the filters.
    
    The diamataceous earth comes in because they cannot reasonably make a
    mesh for the filters that is fine enough to trap everything.  The earth
    coats the filters and traps the very tiniest particles (which is why
    it's so important you use the RIGHT amount of DE)
    
    Be careful to NEVER put the backwash hose in the pool.  Aside from
    creating a mess, there will be some diamataceous earth in the backwash
    water, which you REALLY don't want to be swimming in .... as well as it
    coats the filters, it can coat your lungs, so be careful!!
    
    Good luck!

    
    
      Backwash only when your filter pressure falls below a reasonable
     rate of pressure. I backwash a few (3 times) a year and have had
     no problems and crystal clear water.
    
     BAL
    

    RE .1...Why would you shut the valves on the skimmer side off?? I was
    told by my installer to leave them open and let the pool water run into
    the filter to help clean(backwash, then rinse) the filter...This does
    make sense to me because if I were to run my filter on backwash for 2-3
    minutes with the valves closed, I would run my filter and pump dry..
    
    When the level of the pool drops below the half-way mark on the wall
    skimmer, I just add more water...I also backwash/rinse once a week.
    
    
    							john

    You definitely want to be pulling the water from the pool, through the
    filter, out the backwash hose during backwashing.  Thus my comment
    earlier 'run it until the water coming out of the hose is the same as
    the water in your pool' ... it IS the water in your pool.
    
    Perhaps the previous noter was talking about an additional skimmer basket 
    that is built into the pump, or perhaps there is a bypass with their
    pump?
    
    pw

    Most of these replies seem to be talking about DE filters.  I have a
    sand filter, and have to backwash it at least once a week, and after
    every vacuuming.  It's an easy procedure, though, and only takes a few
    minutes.  I backwash whenever the flow rate seems to be reduced (i.e.,
    whenever I can hold my hand over the outlet and not get blown away by
    the water pressure).
    
    BTW, if the flow rate is down, and backwashing doesn't help, check the
    strainer basket in the pump.  Mine was clogged with lots of little
    stuff that was hard to see, but it really slowed down the water flow,
    and caused cloudy water.
    
    /Don

    I strongly recommend you call the manufacturer for the user manual on your
    filter system.  All units are a little different and you could risk
    damage to the motor or the system if you follow instructions based on
    the wrong unit.
    

    
     I have a sand filter and it only gets backwash a few times a
     year.
    
     BAL

       I have the Aqua-Driod pool cleaner. I does a very nice job on the
    bottom of the pool. You do, however, have to brush the walls and bottom
    every so often to remove any algae and stuck on debris. The wall climbing
    cleaners are not recommended for above ground pools by the manufacturer
    and they're quite a bit more expensive.

       The Aqua-Droid costs about $250. It works pretty much like your
    normal pool vac except that it gets around on it's own. Once filled with
    water it will sink to the bottom and move around on small feet that are
    driven by the water intake. If you have a very smooth bottom in your pool
    it will move in a circular pattern which eventually gets the whole pool
    clean. I have a soft sand base under my pool which leaves pits where
    the kids jump in, this causes the Aqua-Droid to wander in a drunk like
    pattern. I have an 18' X 33' oval, it takes about 4 hours to clean the
    whole thing.

        There are a couple of things that I don't like about it. First, it
    has no brush on it so it will only pick up loose debris. Also you have
    to use a special hose with it, this hose comes in 4' sections only.
    You get 8 sections of hose with the Droid, which is enough to do a 27'
    pool. I had to buy an extra section at $9 to reach the far end of my
    pool. If my skimmer were in the center of one of the strait walls I
    wouldn't have needed an extra section. There are warnings stamped all
    over the place saying that the hose should not be coiled, which means
    that you have to put all the sections together each time you use it and
    then take them apart when you're done, unless you have a long flat place
    to store it. I used to grumble to myself about having to clean the pool,
    now I grumble about putting the hose together. I guess I'm getting lazy.

            Dan

    
    All right, I'll bite. Why do you have to pull the hose apart and not
    coil it? Got any ideas?
    
    BLD
    

    There is another similar one called the Questa 2000 ... made in
    Australia ... it wanders around aimlessly, climbing up the walls
    part way too.
    
    It uses a sectional hose too, but it has no comments about coiling
    the hose.   On the other hand, seeing how an old vac hose has developed
    a tendency to coil one way only after a couple of summers heat, and
    seeing as how the Questa is very sensitive to pull on the hose such
    a tendency could result in it not wandering properly.
    
    Stuart

    RE: .2  
    
    	If you coil up the hose, it tends to "remember" the bend you've
       	placed in it. This can affect the pattern used by the automatic
    	cleaners.
    
    
    	

    Is it necessary to drain off the rain water from the cover of
    my inground pool so that the water level remains below the
    skimmer? I would think this would be necessary so that the
    water would not get inti the skimmer and freeze during the
    winter months.
    
    Thanks, Jim Rhodes

    For a couple of bucks you can buy a thing called a "gizmo", which
    screws into the hole in the bottom of your skimmer and sticks way up 
    into the area where your skimmer basket would normally be.  It will
    compress as surrounding water freezes, thus avoiding a cracked skimmer
    housing.  I always drain my pool below the skimmer, suck the water out
    of the skimmer housing, install the gizmo and cover with a solid cover. 
    I also siphon the cover periodically (when it's not frozen).  Some
    water does get through the cover anyway, and the skimmer housing ends
    up with water in it by spring.  The gizmo is insurance that the water
    won't cause any damage.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    My problem is either the pump or the vari-flow valve. Lately, every
    time I shut the pump off to put the handle on backwash or one of the
    other setting the water in the pump and filter rushes out and bubbles
    up through the skimmer. It's like a volcano erupting. I also notice
    one of my return lines every once in a while air will rush out and
    the water bubbles up. I guess that is like air trapped. But does anyone
    know where the problem could be? I also lose the prime when I shut off
    the pump.

    I came across an inexpensive and rather easy way of draining the lines
    when closing the pool. I'm apprehensive though. Usually if *I* come
    across an *EASY* way, there are usually pitfalls that I discover later.
    So, I welcome any comments/criticism.
    
    While closing the pool yesterday, I was pondering the usual about the
    lines when I thought that a garden hose would fit into the lines
    easily. So, after plugging the lines at the pool and disconnecting them
    at the filter, I snaked the hose in far enough to be well below the 
    freeze line (or at least at the lowest point) and connected the other 
    end to the pump that I use to siphon the cover off. It worked great. 
    The diffence in diameter between the line and the hose permits the air 
    to prevent a vacuum. I'm reasonably certain that the lines are now safe
    from freezing (little if any water in them). I can use the same method
    in a day or so to insure that the line plugs aren't leaking (I had one
    drop out two years ago). I then cover the open lines with plastic wrap
    and secure it with rubber bands.
    
    Also, I don'y use a gizmo. I learned a different trick befor they were
    available (or at least befor I became aware of them). I use a half
    gallon plastic container, like from apple cider or milk. I fill it
    about 1/3 with gravel, recap it and set it in the skimmer. It's done 
    the job for me for the past 11 years without incident. (keep in mind
    that I'm in New Jersey and our winters aren't as severe as New
    England)
    
    Regards,
    Bob
    
    

    I also closed my inground pool Sat. (back to ugly back there, until
    next year) I swear my solid cover is shrinking. I leave the water
    level high and the cover still just reaches end to end with nothing
    to spare. I bought the largest cover 26x44. Does anyone else have
    trouble covering a 20x40 pool with steps attached?
    
    Now the birds will be back to take their bath and eat any bugs and
    stuff that come with the leaves. Hope they don't put too many holes
    in the cover. I also notice some pin holes starting to show up.

    I have an above ground pool with a sand filter.   I plan on closing it
    this weekend.  The part I hate is having to drain all the water out to
    get to the hose connection openings so I can disconnect the hoses.
    I'd love to keep everything connected and close it up for the season,
    but I know the hoses would not make the winter.  Oh well, I guess I'm
    just going to have to do it the right way!!
    
    Chris D.  

    
    
    	I have a stupid problem.
    
    	I hav one of those small 3ft deep, 12ft dia above ground pools for
    the kids.  Well, this year I decided that taking it down, and outting
    it up was a little too much of a pain every year, so I was all set to
    leave it up over the winter.(like all the neighbors do with the same
    pool.)
    
    	Well, at the last Pool Party that my kids had about three weeks
    ago, the out put hose from the filter mysteriously got knocked out.
    	Needless to say, I woke the next morning to an empty pool, and 
    a filter motor that is probably burnt.
    
    
    	My question-should I just leave it as is-throw in a mesh cover to
    strain out the leaves.... or should I re-fill, and winterize?
    
    		Never tried over wintering it, and don't know what to 
    	expect.
    
    		Thanks,
    
    		Chuck
    
    	

    
    Anywater that is in it will freeze and burst the metal sides wide open. 
    Happened on an x-neighbor's pool.  I would fill it and winterize it,
    throw in a "pillow" and cover it.  I guess it's personal prefference,
    but I wouldn't use a mesh cover.  Let's too much junk in.
    
    Chris D.

    
    We have had a sand filter for two years, and it is infinitely better
    than the cartridge we had prior to that. I have two questions:
    
    	1. How often, on average, does the sand need to be changed?
    
    	2. What is the best way to change it, i.e., vacuum it out, scoop it 
    	   out, disconnect and dump it out???
    
    Thanks,
    Don
    

	From my lifeguard days...

	We cleaned the sand filters by back-flushing, running
 	the water backward through the filter. The only
	trick is to remember not to route dirty water back
	to the pool.

	1. open waste valve
	2. close return valve to pool (water now running to waste)
	3. change valves to run water backward through filter

	If you're lucky, there is view glass in the waste line.
	Backflush until the water runs clear. Then reverse
	the steps above. Remember to add water to the pool to 
	bring the level back up.

    
    re -1
    
    Thanks for the tips. I think my wife (who is the guardian of The Pool)
    does that now. What I really need some advice on is how often should we
    change the sand in the filter. By that, I mean taking the old sand out
    and putting in fresh. My wife thought it should be done every 1 - 2
    years. My friend, who is usually right on the money about these things,
    says you can go 4 - 5 years. That sounds a little extreme to me. Any
    input that anyone can give would be much appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    Don
    

    I have a sand filter and have heard 4-5 years.  Seems that a little
    dirt that can not be cleaned by backwashing actually helps the
    filtering process.  If you have a pressure gauge and find that you can
    not keep the filter running efficiently then you may need new sand
    since the sand may be to clogged with goo.  Rob.

    Well my parents built in pool has had the same sand from 1973, and I
    don't know if he has even added any, but I'll check. My dad keeps
    it crystal clear without too much clorine too...
    I would think you'd have to add some after awhile because you do
    loose some while backflushing...
    The built in pool we had when I was a kid went almost 10 years before 
    we moved and I'm quite sure he never added or changed that sand...
    Jean

	I agree with -.1.  

	I worked at a very large pool (8 lanes wide 66 yards long,
	plus separate diving area)  and I know that the sand was
	not changed in 10 years, and I would be very surprised if
	the sand had ever been changed, that would be > 20 years.

	If the backflushing works, and the filtration system seems
	to be working fine, there should be now reason to change
	the sand. It doesn't wear out, and it doesn't get dirty.

    But I believe you will loose some of the sand with each backwash,
    therefore, it may be empty of such.
    
    Dave'
    

    
    re -1
    
    I'm pretty sure there's lots of sand in there. We've been lead to
    believe that although you lose quite a bit when you backwash a DE
    filter, the sand filters seem to lose little to none. I hope that's
    right!
    
    Thanks everyone for the input!!!
    
    Don
    

    Well we used a sand filter for a large aquarium installation, and during
    each backflush we lost a good amount during the intial cycle, but that
    was it. It was loaded wit a 100 lbs to start with. I have since left
    the store, and have no idea if they ever refilled it...but 100 lbs is
    a lot of dry sand to start with. 
    
    Dave'
     

    re.23
    All of the DE filters I have ever back flushed were designed to 
    have all of the DE discharged requireing loading each time the back
    flush was performed.
    
    -j

I'm having trouble with a leaking pool pump and any help at all would be 
appreciated.  I unbolted the motor/impeller(?) from the housing, found a 
gasket there that looked perfectly good but I replaced it anyways and bolted 
it back together.  Didn't fix the problem at all.

There is a plastic piece that is attached to the outside/front of the
motor/impeller unit that has a rectangular cut-out at the interface between  it
and the rest of the unit.  The water seems to be leaking from that cut-out  and
it comes out at a pretty good rate (lost a quarter inch of water from  the pool
overnight).  I tried to take that piece off to see what was behind it but the
best I could do was to lift the front piece a bit and then rotate it 360
degrees until it snapped back into place.  Hope my descriptions makes some
sense to somebody.

Anyone have any idea what my problem might be or how to get that piece off 
to look into it myself?  Thanks.

Walker

    
    
    	I had the same problem.  At least you were able to remove the
    impeller.  You have to replace the seal.  It is available as a kit
    which contains a bushing, cup, spacers, ceramic disk and a few other
    small parts.  It is pretty easy to replace, there is an instruction
    sheet with the kit.  You need to get a kit from a pool supply place
    that carrys the same motor model that you have.  I paid $12. for the
    kit that I needed for my pool pump, I also paid $20. for a kit
    when my boiler circulating pump let go.
    
    	Depending where you live, there is a pretty good supplies/pool
    place in South Lawrence at the junction of 495 and Rt28.
    
    

re .-1

Thanks for the help.  Actually, when I first reported in, I hadn't got the 
impeller off but I went to the pool store, got the seal assembly, got
instructions on how to get the impeller off, went home, gave it a try and 
...voila!  No more leak.  Thanks again.

Walker

    I just received a used Hayward EC-40 DE filter and pump and have
    some questions.   This pump was the smallest in the line when I checked
    what the new prices were at NAMCO($299).  My pool is a 15 foot above 
    ground.
    
    First I followed the instructions on the filter tank, which said to
    start the filter, record the presure, then add 4lbs of DE.  After that
    record the presure again.  When presure rises 7-10lbs above that level
    "bump"(I got that term from the instructions on the side of the filter 
    tank).
    
    Question 1: 
    
    	What presure should the pump run at?  It seems to run much higher
    	than my neighbor's sand filter.  The DE is running between 26-34lbs
    	and the Sand is around 15-20lbs.  Both seem to push the same amount
    	of water through the outlet stream though.
    
    2:
    	The NAMCO salesman told me I should clean the DE fingers once
    	a year by putting them in a bath of 4 parts water, one part
    	muriatic acid, is that really necessary?
    
    3:
    	How often should the filter be drained and DE replaced?  And, what
    	does bumping really do and why does it work?  
    
    Also, several notes	back a noter described a DE backwashing procedure 
    that involved running the pump.  My instructions explain to close both
    pool input/output valves and open the drain valve.  I figured the
    pump should not be run under these circumstances.  Is this correct?
    
    I will be requesting an owners manual as soon as the original owner
    returns from vacation( don't worry I haven't paid him yet ).
    
    -Chris

�    	The NAMCO salesman told me I should clean the DE fingers once
�    	a year by putting them in a bath of 4 parts water, one part
�    	muriatic acid, is that really necessary?
    
    I hadn't heard this one.  I had a DE filter a couple of years ago and
    none of the literature nor the local pool shop ever mentioned doing
    this.
    
�    	How often should the filter be drained and DE replaced?  And, what
�    	does bumping really do and why does it work?  
    
    Replace the DE whenever bumping doesn't do much to bring down the
    pressure.  How often will depend on pool usage, debris collection, etc. 
    Bumping redistributes the filtration bed.
    
�    Also, several notes	back a noter described a DE backwashing procedure 
�    that involved running the pump.  My instructions explain to close both
�    pool input/output valves and open the drain valve.  I figured the
�    pump should not be run under these circumstances.  Is this correct?
 
    You can run the pump for short intervals to help flush the filter out
    when draining it prior to refilling it with DE.   

    The backwashing proceedure on my DE filter takes pool water and forces
    it through the DE filter in reverse direction. The dierty waster is
    then dumped out the back. The backwashing proceedure is done with the
    pump on. 
    My pump runs at 12 lbs pressure (measured in the tank). When the crud
    builds up the pressure in the tank will increase. I was told that when
    the pressure builds to 20-25lbs (twice normal) it is time to backwash.   
    
    Since my pool was new, I went through a lot of DE cleaning the water.
    Since the initial cleaning, completed sometime in June, i have
    backwashed twice. The second being this past weekend. 
    
    Hope this helps 
    Steve

    
.26>   	And, what
.26>   	does bumping really do and why does it work?  
    
    A DE filter contains a number of long thin "fingers" of some permeable
    material. When filtering, water flows from the outside of the fingers to
    the inside.
    
    When you add DE (diatomaceous earth, or diatomite; defined in Webster's
    Ninth as plankton fossils), water flow causes it to coat the outside of
    the fingers; water then flows through the DE on it's way into the fingers,
    and is filtered.
    
    When a certain amount of gunk is filtered, flow is restricted, and the
    pressure on the input side goes up. You then turn off the pump, "bump"
    the filter (by raising and lowering the handle on top a few times
    vigorously), and start again. Bumping causes the DE to fall off the
    fingers. When you restart the pump, hopefully the DE again rises to coat
    the fingers, the gunk stays on the bottom, and pressure is reduced.
    When bumping no longer adequately reduces the pressure, you reverse the
    flow to wash all the DE and gunk out, restart the flow in the filtering
    direction, and add more DE.
    

I have been running a Hayward DE for the last 5 years and have the following
to pass on...


1. Pressure has been around 15-20 pounds.

2. I have cleaned it every other season with muriatic acid (big difference in
performance.)

3. Running the filter during backwash does flush out the remaining sand after
draining. (keep inlet valve open for this part)


Re place DE when pressure is 5-8 lbs abover normal operating range and won't
come down by bumping.

    A few questions about closing an above ground pool...
    
    1.) How low do you drain the water? I have heard 4 inches below the
    skimmer, 1 inch below the skimmer, 10-12 inches below the top of pool.
    
    2.) How necessary is it to drain any water that may get on top of the
    cover?

    I drain mine about 4 inches below the skimmer.  As far as draining the
    water on top of the cover, I do it for a couple of reasons:  last year
    the bubble slowly lost air throughout the winter, and the water/ice on
    the cover weighed the cover down even more, pushing the pool water higher,
    and into the skimmer, where it promptly froze, and cracked the skimmer.
    That was $40 extra to open the pool this spring.  (2):  As soon as the
    ice on top of cover melts, I try to keep it as "dry" as possible.  It
    just makes that much less water to siphon off when opening the pool,
    making it easier to get all the leaves of the cover, and the cover
    weighs much less when pulling it off.
    
    Gene
    

I drained mine about 8-10" below the skimmer to just below the return line 
ports (to drain them).  I've plugged the return lines so is there any reason 
I should raise the level back up to around 4" below the skimmer?  Is there 
any reason that the water level should be above the plugged return lines?

Other questions (because it's a new house/pool and I'm new at this):

- What's the deal with these rubber stoppers with a bolt, wing nut, and 
two big washers on them?  Is the idea to use them to shove them into lines 
and then tighten the nut to get a better seal (because as the stopper flattens 
it expands into the opening)?  I'm currently using them to plug the lines 
where the pipes used to connect to the pump (I brought the pump inside).

- Any one have any opinion on whether it works better to put the water logs 
on top of the cover or through the loops around the edge?

Thanks in advance.

Walker

    
    
    	
    	I have a 24' round pool bought used. I have never had a pool
    before.
    
    	I have a sand filter and just replaced the sand and I am only
    getting about 6 PSI out of the filter.
    
    	Is this reading low? The water pressure going into the pool feels
    like a hose turned on 1/2 way.
    
    	Would not having enough sand in the filter cause low pressure?	
    I put in 50 Lbs of sand but the filter doesn't seem to be more then
    1/2 way full. I have a 1HP pump. 
    
    
    	Thank
    	Dave C.
    

    
    	I haven't had a pool for a couple of years, but if memory serves...
    	make sure the hose from the skimmer is clear and not kinked or
    	going at any sharp angles... same is true for the return hose.
    	Also, make sure you bleed all of the air out of the filter 
    	(should be a bleed valve on top, near the pressure gage). 
    
    	Ed

    Try backwashing the filter. That should bring the pressure up.
    

    We've had a spa for nine years and have gotten tired of smelling of
    bromine every time we use it. Our dealer told us that an ozonator would
    reduce or eliminate the odor and allow us to use much less bromine too.
    
    We're not concerned about payback, but are wondering if anyone here has
    firsthand experience with these things and could comment on their
    effectiveness. Thanks 
    

    A couple people I talk to on Ham Radio have been running a pool
    ozonator all season and they are very, very happy with them..
    
    ...tom

    Yes, we purchased an ozonator for our spa.  We are quite pleased with
    the way things are working.  Since we have had the ozonator since the
    spa was purchased, it is difficult to compare with and without except 
    for a week or so when the spa was first installed and the ozonator
    was not functioning.  For that period we could not keep the bromine
    level up without adding clorine.  The thing smelled like the local
    YMCA pool.  
    
    What I can tell you is that now that the ozonator is working, the bromine 
    odor is very faint in our spa.  The bromine level is always up toward very
    high when we test.  The spa has been filled since mid May and is crystal 
    clear.  It is used a lot, two teenagers and friends live in it as well 
    mom and dad and some occasional friends.  I use 1 bromine tablet every 2nd
    day.
    
    I can't remember exactly what the cost was, but I believe it was something
    in the $100.00 bracket, possibly less.

    We came very close to not purchasing it, I'm glad we did.  
    
    Judie
    
    

     Question, what is a "water log"  and what is it used for?

    It's used to hold down the edges of your pool cover in the winter so
    the ends don't lift up. Fill it up with water and the weight holds it
    down
    
    TN. 

     Oh!  I've been using bricks. Actually I've been using tree rings.
     Lots of em. Maybe I ought to invest on some "water logs."

I scanned through 1111.81 and didn't find anything specific about suppliers
for pool parts, so I hope this topic may be generic enough for my interests.

I'm looking for a mailorder supplier for pool parts. I needed to replace
both the strainer basket for my perflex pump _and_ my skimmer basket this
year. I went to Seasonal Specialties in Nashua/Merrimack and was unpleasantly
surprised to find that they'd cost me $13 and $20 respectively. Seemed like
an awful lot of money for some molded plastic baskets to me. Now, I figure
all of this stuff is probably pretty high margin due to the seasonal nature,
so I was wondering if anyone knew of mailorder suppliers, or perhaps of
suppliers in warmer (year round) climates who might have a more respectable
pricing structure.

Any pointers or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Jack

    Try calling Leslie's for a catalog.  I order some of my spa chemicals
    from them and have a catalog that does include things like skimmer
    baskets for pools.  They are out of California someplace.
    
    You could call and ask them to send you a catalog.
    I don't have the number with me but it is an 800  you could try calling
    800-555-1212 and ask the directory assistant for the number.
    
     Judie
    
    

Leslie's 1-800-537-7665

The couple of times I've called, all their reps were "busy" and I didn't have
the patience to hold!

Dave

    Same happened to me until I got smart and called at wierd times of the
    day or nite, also have no problem on weekends.  I believe they 
    have phone coverage 7X24.
    
    Judie
    
    

Thanks, Judie and Dave. I'll give Leslie's a ring.
-Jack

    Try NAMCO in Hudson, NH.  For certain things(solar cover, chlorine),
    they ended up being less than Leslies.
    
    603-886-1986 I think