Conference 7.286::massachusetts

    
    	RE: paper towels
    
    	"Kill a tree,
    	 it's more sanitary."
    

>      <<< Note 2101.1 by BUSY::SLAB "Always a Best Man, never a groom" >>>
>    
>    	RE: paper towels
>    
>    	"Kill a tree,
>    	 it's more sanitary."

vs.

"Launder cloth towles and deplete the aquifer and create more gray water
to be handled."

vs.

"Use an electric hand dryer and deplete fossil fuels or create nuclear waste."

There's no doubt that we are going to have an impact on this planet as 
long as we're alive.  We choose what we hope to be an optimum strategy
of our lives and the health of the planet.
Waste paper can be recycled, though recycling demands an infrastructure
that is seldom available.

I love the ratholes this file instigates.

- tom]

  To continue the rathole: Most trees used for paper were grown for this
purpose and are renewable. The real environmental problem with paper is the
air and water pollution from paper mfg. Brown paper causes less pollution in
mfg than white. Which is one reason why some Digital plants changed over from
white fanfold towels to brown roll towels a few years ago.

        Re:-3 While what you say is valid the renewable aspect is for a
    finite period. A biodiversity of trees tend to utilize different
    minerals.. Wood pulp trees planted clearcut replanted...... eventually 
    deplete the soil unless a system similar to crop rotation is used.
    
          Bob

    vs. don't wash your hands, widely disperse communicable diseases, and
    contribute to biodiversity by eliminating the cheif competition to most
    wildlife (man).
    

    
    Does anyone know if there are health laws in Mass. that apply to
    restaurants, delis, take-out establishments...anyone that handles
    food?
    
    	For instance:  Does the food handler have to wear latex gloves
    		       while handling your food?
    
    		       Does the person who handles your money and the
    		       person who handles your food have to be two
    	               different people?
    
    		       Almost every small take-out establishment that
    	               I have gone to in Mass., no one wears latex
    		       gloves, although delis, especially in supermarkets
    		       may be required.
    
    
    		       If there are not health laws that require a food
    	               handler to wear latex gloves while preparing
    	               your food (especially sandwiches), there should be.
    
    		       I have recently stopped going to a pizza/ grinder
    		       take-out becuase the person who was making the
    		       sandwiches was wiping and picking his nose without
    		       washing his hands.  Gross.
    
    
    ems  

    My wife is extremely sensitive to this.  If there are laws, I may have
    to have leaflets printed out to carry with us to resturants.
    
    I know its pulling an ostrich, but I try not to be too aware of such
    food mishandlings, else I'd NEVER eat out.
    
    Did I ever tell you about the time my wife found a FEATHER in her
    salad?
    
    jeb
    

    
    	RE: .7
    
    	Chicken salad, I assume?
    

    *Garden* salad, you turkey!  :-)
    
    jeb
    

>    Did I ever tell you about the time my wife found a FEATHER in her
>    salad?

I found a bullet in an oyster once.

    
    	RE: .9
    
    	Geez, what do you think I am, a mind reader?
    
    
    
    	8^)
    

  I visited a grinder place recently where the person who made the grinders
also handled money. She wore plastic (not latex) gloves and did NOT change
them between handling money and making sandwiches. 
  If I am really uneasy about sanitation, I insist on eating only food that
is piping hot, no sandwiches or salads. The intense heat of cooking kills most
germs. But, of course, new microogranisms can grow on food if it is held for
hours at or near room temp after cooking.

    ...and what about the people in supermarkets who have one hand in a
    plastic glove and the other manages all other tasks?
    Or the same person who uses the same gloves while handling meat
    products (inspected, presumably) and fish (not inspected at all)?
    Or who wears the gloves while holding a broom and sweeping?
    Or who uses the shifts gloves between meat and fish products, keeps the
    gloves in an apron pocket, and switches back and forth?
    ...and so forth...
    
    And, have you ever seen the looks the counter people (or other
    customers!) give you when you ask the person to put on gloves?

    At my kids nursery school, they have all the kids wash their hands
    as soon as they enter the building.  they have a sink right by the
    door and a BIG box of small hand towels (and as parents, we take the
    hand towels home about once every few weeks and wash them...a
    rotated job).  the kids wash again after using the bathroom,
    after being outside, and before eating.  they found it made
    BIG difference in the number of sick kids and more so, the number
    of sick staff.
    bob

     The cafeteria at my site (SHR) has the morning breakfast/grill person
     cutting up raw chicken on a counter next to the grill.When someome
     wants something off the grill, he stops cutting chicken and makes
     breakfast.Needless to say, I don't eat at the grill on these days.
    
                                                 Rich
                         

>     The cafeteria at my site (SHR) has the morning breakfast/grill person
>     cutting up raw chicken on a counter next to the grill.When someome
>     wants something off the grill, he stops cutting chicken and makes
>     breakfast.Needless to say, I don't eat at the grill on these days.
  
  I wouldn't buy food from the grill at those times either. Cross-contamination
between raw meat and foods that are not cooked before eating (such as raw
veggies and sandwiches) is a serious problem both at home and in commercial
settings, and is continually being written about in publications such as
diet/health "letters". If this person is, in fact, turning from cutting up
raw chicken to handling already-cooked or eaten-raw food without washing his
hands, you should report it to the caf manager and/or whoever in Digital is
in charge of the caf. (The caf committee if there is one, otherwise, the
facilities manager.)

[Re: supermarket deli counter]
>    Or the same person who uses the same gloves while handling meat
>    products (inspected, presumably) and fish (not inspected at all)?

  Handling raw meat and raw fish with the same gloves is probably OK, because
both are cooked before eating. However, if the clerk handles raw meat or
raw fish and then handles cold cuts without changing gloves or washing his
hands, it's bad news.
  That meat is inspected doesn't mean it's free of bacteria. In fact, in-
spection only covers a very small random sample of all meats processed.
And a very high percentage, over 30% for some kinds of meat, IS contaminated.
But full cooking kills the bugs. That is why the experts say that ALL
hanburgers should be well done. (Rare steak is OK because the contaminants are
only on the surface.)
  I have never seen a supermarket at which raw meat and cold cuts are handled
at the same counter. But it could happen in a small mom and pop store.

>    At my kids nursery school, they have all the kids wash their hands
>    as soon as they enter the building.  they have a sink right by the
>    door and a BIG box of small hand towels (and as parents, we take the
>    hand towels home about once every few weeks and wash them...a

  Why do they use hand towels instead of paper towels? Is it an attempt to
reduce paper usage and trash?

>  Why do they use hand towels instead of paper towels? Is it an attempt to
>reduce paper usage and trash?

    Perhaps I shouldn't speak for them, but yes, I assume its
    to recycle.  the towels are used once and then put into a
    'used' bin.  When they run low, some parent takes them home
    and washes them with bleach.  They buy replacements at
    sales at outlets.
    bob

    
    RE: 2101.7
    
    	I do not think that your wife is being too fussy.  We all eat out
    	more because of busy schedules.  I think that there is definitely
    	more illness lately because of food contamination.  If there are not
    	health laws requiring food handlers to wear gloves and making
    	sure that the person who handles your food does not handle your
    	money, then there should be.  By the way, on the news last night
    	there was a report of an outbreak of Salmonella in several states,
    	including Massachusetts.  The news station was stating that
    	everyone should be washing their fruits and vegeatbles and cooking
    	their meat thoroughly.
                                        
    ems

    >The news station was stating that everyone should be washing their
    >fruits and vegeatbles and cooking their meat thoroughly.
    
    If you want to know why we have outbreaks of poisoning, this could be
    why.  Could *anything* possibly be more basic?
    
    jeb
    

          I just wish the washroom doors had two handles... One for the
    people that wash one for the people that don't. I mean as soon as you
    touch that flusher you've just had casual contact with the last 20 or??? 
    people that touched it. 
    
    bob

    Ugh.  You *touch* the handles!?!?!?  :-)
    
    What I'd like to see is a law requiring bathroom doors to open outward. 
    It real hard to get out of the bathroom when you have to pull the door
    inward to get out.
    
    OTOH, I *love* the public restrooms with infrared everything.  Wave and
    you get water.  Wave and the drier turns on.  And *no* touching handles
    - they don't have any!  typically these places are arranged so there's
    no door to open to get out.
    
    jeb (didn't mean to start sharing phobias!  :-)
    

          Hey being health conscious isn't a phobia.. Typically I tocuh the
    handles with my elbow :-) Heck ya never know when someones a real
    lousey shot and hits the handle.
    
    bob

  The toilets that flush themselves I call "autoflush". And the sinks that
turn on their own faucets I call "autosync". These words have a different 
meaning to a small group of engineers :-).
  Very strange feeling the first time I encountered these gadgets.
  Re doors: If space constraints prevent having a no-door opening, the best
idea is separate entrance and exit doors. Much smoother traffic flow than a
single door.