Conference rdvax::grateful

    Microsoft has a Natural keyboard that is supposed to reduce the effects
    of CTS....

	it's done all the time.
	a co-worker had her office done.
	check your local bulletin board, there's usually info with a
	number to call.
	
	do it.

    unless the particular office design doesn't lend itself to
    re-design....as in CX03...When I resided in KDT and CXN, where "new"
    was the word in office design and furniture, the company, facilities
    and nurse were very involved in ergonomic design (I have been seeing a
    "company dr" for over 2 years for wrist problems, wear a wrist brace
    for wrist support when I type, drive or do *ANYTHING* physically
    strenuous to the wrist) Now, in CX03, where the desks can only mount a
    certain way and do not lend themselves to ergonomic re-design, they
    could give a f*ck...of course i'm just contractor scum now....
    
    rfb

    *ANYHTING* with your wrist rfb?
    
    and watch who you call contractor scum mister
    
    :^)

    I *KNEW* that would get a commet from some contactor scum!!  %^)
    
    It's a good thing I have such a grate woman......
    
    punching the dogs is also out of the question...unless it's done left
    handed (it's a good thing my kids beat me and I don't beat them)
    rfb

Erognomics is a total joke here in NIO.
We are squashed into 7.5 x 8 offices.
I managaed to squeeze a terminal stand into my office for my VT320.
Most people have their keyboard/monitor on a desk, which is totally the
wrong height.
We are moving in a few months into the standardised NIO cubes which are being
reconstructed in Core A - same tiny size.
I use the black velvet padded wrist rest that are available to DECCIes - my
secretary ordered them for our group couple of years ago.
I have a bit of carpal tunnel drome, anyway.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the too-bright office lighting.
I spend 7 hours a day at my tube and I keep a large cardboard light shield
on top of it so the display does not get washed out.
I used to get bad headaches/eye strain till I started doing this years ago.
I really hate those bright overhead lights which are long flourescent tubes
with no baffles to direct the light only straight downwards.  The light
floods out sideways, and so a light fixture high overhead and to the side
of the office washed out the monitor.  A section of offices in the old ACO 
plant had special light fixtures put in, that had grids in them, so the light
went only straight down.  I was not in that area, but it seemed to work well.

No one seems to realize how f*cked up too-bright lights are for viewing 
monitors all day long!  ARRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!

 - Josh

I use a printer table for my keyboard/monitor.  It is exactly the right height
and has eliminated the CTS problems that I was experiencing.

	dave

My group here in HLO took ergo seriously about a year ago... REQUIRING
everyone to have an ergo audit by the local health-n-safety folks.  HLO's
safety people have a justly deserved reputation for extremes (to make a SLIGHT
understatement :-) so at first I though this policy was a bit much.

After my audit, I ended up needing two long mouse pads to replace my short one
(so that I now have two pads nested together that extend enough to include
room for a mouse), a 6" monitor stand, and a footrest.  I already had a foam
backrest thingy for my chair.  

The result is that I no longer feel any wrist, neck, or back strain while I
work... and now am a firm believer in the policy of REQUIRING everyone to have
an ergo audit.

If your site mgmt. doesn't actively do this kind of thing, then make noise so
your management will get a clue.  Make them call the HLO EH&S (Environmental
Health and Safety) people and have 'em ask how they should set it up for your
site.


- jeff

    ...yeah, Jeff & I both work at HLO but here's the rub with HLO's
    ergonomic strategy: it's not Ok to life a monitor, Pc box, etc. BUT
    it's Ok to have ol' mac here do the lifting, moving, etc....this is
    complete BULL!  Does anyone care about the insignificant wage class
    2's who hafta move, lift, cart, haul everyone else's stuff.....
    
    
    ...methinks not.....
    
    BUT, I digress....Tom's original question regarded an ergo keyboard...
    my group has purchased ergo keyboards from Ergologic and ergo mice
    as well...if U need more info, Tom, i'd be more than happy-happy to
    provide a phone #.......lemme know...
    
    liftin'_mac

re           <<< Note 494.8 by SUBPAC::MAGGARD "Mail Ordered Husband" >>>


>If your site mgmt. doesn't actively do this kind of thing, then make noise so
>your management will get a clue.  Make them call the HLO EH&S (Environmental
>Health and Safety) people and have 'em ask how they should set it up for your
>site.

The day NIO has an ergo audit will be the day DEC Turkey's for Christmas 
come back!   This place's tiny offices are so ridiculous and anti-ergo, its...
I can't even think of something shitty enough to compare it to.

Maybe I'll make an anonymous call to the HLO Ergo Police, tell em there's
mass ergo violations happening up here...  :-)

  Josh

	Josh,
	
	Have you talked with the facilities people to try and fix your
	complaints? I'm willng to bet they'd do an ergo audit if you
	asked. They might even do something about the light? Have you
	asked?
	
	Jay

    I hate those lights, too. 

    
    I found that just sitting up straight and not letting my wrists 
    touch the desk resolved my wrist pain.  Also, I do stretches 3 
    times a day and wiggle my hands up in the air with rigor.  I feel
    grate!

    sitting up straight, onooooooooooooo!

    gee, my mom always did tell me to do that.

    i just had a mental image of Deano wiggling with rigor.......
    
    now if i could just wipe this stupid smile off my face... :^)
    
    				da ve_the rigorous_wiggler

>    i just had a mental image of Deano wiggling with rigor.......
    
							  ... mortis ???

	Grateful?  Dead ??

    	When I first came to NIO, I noticed one person with a really cool
    under-the-desk keyboard shelf, and wristpads for the Keyboard and
    mouse. I spoke to my group's secretary, and she had the site nurse come
    to my cube to do an ergo audit. A week later I had my own shelf
    installed, wristpads everywhere, and even a document holder next to my
    terminal (which I ended up not using). So it *can* happen, even at NIO 
    (where a ceiling is a luxury)... So talk to your secretary, or go see
    the site nurse directly...
    
    		-chuck
    

re            <<< Note 494.17 by FOUNDR::OUIMETTE "Eyes of the World" >>>

>    	When I first came to NIO, I noticed one person with a really cool
>    under-the-desk keyboard shelf, and wristpads for the Keyboard and

Ok, but this sounds like you are in one of the humongo-sizes offices that have
the sort of decks that attach to the walls.  In the 7.5 x 8 foot cages we
are in, we have standard steelcase furnature.  1 desk, 1 table, and whatever
else you can squeeze in.  No way to attach an under-desk KB shelf to any
of this furnature!

>    (where a ceiling is a luxury)... So talk to your secretary, or go see
>    the site nurse directly...
    
think I will!  thanks - didn't realize the site nurses are proxy ergo_police.

 - Josh  

btw, I sit near pole F7 in core C, second office in on the left, if you
want to see what I mean obout how small these offices are.

    We tried to get the ergo nurse to come to NYC a few years ago to review
    our situation.  Of course, the budget deemed that she couldn't travel. 
    So instead they had some video shown in a conference room.  Big deal.
    
    Some of us screamed real loud and now some of us have the keyboard trays 
    thathave an adjustable height to them.  We can't get the telephone operator
    style headphones cause they cost too much!
    
    While I don't have carpel tunnel (yet), I do have tendonitites and the
    only time my right arm feels good is after two straight weeks off.  I
    can't play tennis anylonger either!
    
    This topic definitely hit one of my hot buttons!
    
    Fredda
    
    Maybe when a high percentage of employees go out on disability, a
    message will be sent.  Of course, I do live in a dream world!

> Maybe when a high percentage of employees go out on disability, a message
> will be sent.  Of course, I do live in a dream world!

In HLO they take "OSHA reportable injuries" very seriously since it they can
lead to (expensive) legal problems ... and CTS is OSHA reportable.  Hence the
local ergo-consciousness.


RE: Mac

Get a back brace, mon!



- jeff

          <<< Note 494.20 by SUBPAC::MAGGARD "Mail Ordered Husband" >>>

>In HLO they take "OSHA reportable injuries" very seriously since it they can
>lead to (expensive) legal problems ... and CTS is OSHA reportable.  Hence the
>local ergo-consciousness.

Makes me wonder why HLO provides such old, shaky, uncomfortable chairs to
its people...

Speaking about chairs, I always got a kick out of a little notice in the
MRO caf showing the proper way to sit at your desk.  THe illustration shows
a real nice adjustable chair with a proper back, yet practically noone has
this type of chair.  It's hard to sit properly on a crappy chair.

/Ken

re           <<< Note 494.6 by QUOIN::BELKIN "RIP Jerome J. Garcia" >>>
              -< I took out the bulb over my office in the Mill! >-

>Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the too-bright office lighting.


josh, ask facilities to take some of the bulbs out.
i've had many of them removed above my head.  i prefer the
natural light from the window next to me....

this topicv is a BIG PET PEEVE of mine at DEC.


basically, digital is reactive and this is WRONG!
they wait until you're hurt before doing anything about it.
i had my share of probs with the wrists and i still have probs,
but not nearly as bad.  i consider myself qualified to do ergo
evals.  in fact, 2 guys on my team complained of wrist fatigue
(one was a college hire!).  i immediately gave 'em an ergo
eval, and both never had a problem after that. 

when you first get an office at DEC, it is NOT set up at all for
ergo.  this should be a requirement for anyone reuiqred to spend
90% of their time at the kb.  stupid stupid stupid.  why dec doesn't
take a proactive position is beyond me.  i have to do the watching
out in my grp, it seems... my mgmt doesn't even deal....

for me.. i have the old pro 350 stands, 3 of 'em, and a pieace of
masonite going betw 2.  i use a secretary's chair also.  if you have
a chair with arms, take 'em off!! seriously.  bring in the tools and
remove,,,,,,

i'm so tuned into this whole thing that when i see someone rubbing
their wrists, i know they are uncomfortable.  and i ask and see where
i can help....

DEC should be slapped with a BIG FINE for not taking a more proactive
role.  my bothering to mgmt has fallen to deaf ears.

    	Hi Josh,
    
    :Ok, but this sounds like you are in one of the humongo-sizes offices that have
    :the sort of decks that attach to the walls.  In the 7.5 x 8 foot cages we
    
    	The Keyboard tray attaches to the underside of my standard
    Steelcase table.... I'm at NIO1/015 if you wanna stop by & check wether
    or not it will work for you. I'll be on vacation to colorado next week, 
    but you're still welcome to come play with the keyboard tray.
    
    	Re: Mandatory Ergo training; this *WAS* mandatory when I was at the
    CSC in colorado. We were all *forced* to attend a two hour seminar with
    videotapes, and SIGN that we had attended same, and we could then get
    individual cube audits by a nurse, after which we could have the
    wristpads, back supports, etc. It was a good thing, though many of us
    complained at the time....
    
    	-chuck
    

re     <<< Note 494.22 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "The Janitor of coding returns!" >>>

>josh, ask facilities to take some of the bulbs out.

well, that wouldn't work here in NIO cause the strings of flourescent bulbs
are high overhead and provide light for about 3 sets of offices per string.
So if they took out a bulb I was complaining about, 2 others would bitch 
their office is dark, cause 1) they don't spend as much time at the tube
as I do, 2) don't care, 3) are clueless about ergo.

Anyway, turns out that my current office is between 2 strings of bulbss,
so is as dark as could be.

 Josh

    chuck -- check us out when you get here...(COLORADO, that is)
    rfb

    
    re: JC Removing arm rests
    
    Thats a fantastic idea!!!!!  Never though about it!!!!
    

re: Removing arm rests

    Anyone got a torch I can borrow ?  Mine are welded on ;-)

    /Ken    

re: The Saga of Ken's New Chair

Walkin' 'round I see many folks with "ergo" chairs.  If you spend long hours
at your desk, they should give you one if you want one.  Just tell 'em yer
back hurts and the foam supports don't cut it and you want a high-back
adjustable chair.  Have you asked yer mgmt for a new chair?  Have you appealed
to the Ergo Police and/or got a note from yer doctor?

The foam-backrest-on-the-old-klunky-chair-with-armrests-welded-on-method works
for me...  but, as always, YMWV.

And speakin of new chairs, anyone see the movie "The Paper"?  It's got a
funny scene about this :-)


- jeff

    Hi, this probably is not the place but did anyone hear about a tour
    	that the dead is going to be doing sometime in the future? If so
    	can you let me know about it.
    
    
    
    
    
    				Thanks Paula

    
    Did anyone every find the number for the ergo-police???
    
    With the low pressure system moving in, my hand/wrist/arm is
    killing!!!!!

    'Bout time I updated this note.  I got an eval and formal
    recommendations, and my ops manager has been supportive.

    The prime contact is Wendy Myler, MK1BT1::MYLER.  Debbie
    Clark handles LKG, she did my eval and they've both checked
    back with me to see how the implementation is going.

    Contact Wendy, and Debbie will do an eval for you.  That's
    a start.

    
    Thanks Tom.  

    For us left coasters, the contact is Donna Imhoff @CXO.
    
    -jer

    Here's what they did for me.  btw, the improvement is immediate
    and very noticeable.  

    took the arms off my chair  (now there's only one way to slouch!)
    purchased and installed under-the-table articulating keyboard holders
	[this is the primary improvement, these things are great!]
    raised monitors to eye level
    reduced the light (was glaring off my screen) (boy is it dark in here!)
    telephone headset (recommended, haven't actually got this yet)

    Not every system is ergonomically correct but the ones I use most are.

    The basic problem is jury-rigging.  The keyboard holders would not
    mount by themselves, I had to have some brackets made by the machine
    shop.  The office does not lend itself to more than two or three
    keyboard holders (I dumped my desk in favor of a table).  None of
    this furniture was designed to be used this way.

    Digital will do it, but only if you take responsibility, make the
    decisions, and make it happen.  It's very much worth it.  Wendy
    Myler and Debbie Clark were both very helpful and responsive.