Conference rdvax::grateful

    There is/was some general wierdness discussed in 471.175 and on for
    about 5-6 notes...the one that still strikes me as real odd....on
    August 9 the dancin bear that has been on Patty's key chain for 5
    years or so dissapeared and has yet to be found....the next day the
    Dead almanac showed up with the  "This is how it looks from the stage"
    article....there was more wierd sh*t that we all discussed locally here
    during that week, but most of it is long gone, drowned in sorrow and
    beer...
    
    rfb

    
    
         Debess!!!! Allenhead here.....yeah, just the past couple of days
    my right middle finger's 2nd joint has been sore and "crinkling/crack-
    ing"..... no other joints in my hands or body.... just that ONE!!!
    Isn't that the infamous missing finger??? I kinda put the two ideas
    together and said, "Wow...Jerry's trying to tell me something here."
    I don't know what but other "oddities" have been happening to me also.
    
         Hope to see all of you some time soon... it's been a while...
    
    a.t.f.a.
    Allenhead
    

Sounds as though that brown (bad) acid that everyone was warned
about from the stage at Woodstock is still floating around.  Just joshing.
As one who firmly believes in the power of meditation, though, I have to
say that sometimes, if the will is there, that there can be a Ouija Board
effect to our daydreams.  If you're too young to know what a Ouija Board 
is, then you probably weren't offended by the "brown acid" comment. Good.

Anyway, Debess, if you haven't seen it, I'd suggest you check out Note
471.42 - the words to Iris Dement's "Let the Mystery Be."  If you've
ever heard Iris sing that tune, and it didn't raise the hair on the back of
your neck, then you might want to listen to it a second time.

As Kurt Vonnegut often signs off...

Peace,
-Steve

    Daddy
    what's a ouija board?
    
    
    Daddy
    what's brown acid?
    :^)
    

Don't laugh about drugs, sonny  - since he didn't OD, it wasn't the drug heroin
that killed Jerry. It was the chain-smoking and rotten diet that goes with the
lifestyle of a junkie that got him. The constant constipation that comes with
opiate addiction didn't help his health or his portly profile any, either. 

Jerry was honest enough about himself that he never
referred to his drugs as "medication."  That and his dedication to constantly
improving himself as a musician are what separated him from Elvis in the end.
That and the age difference are about it.  "I seen the needle take another
man."   

As a true deadhead, I'm sure you know what herion is, son.

-S

    dude
    don't have to tell me about heroin
    it killed my little sister's 19 year old friend this summer
    try taking your kid sister to a funeral and seeing 50 teenage kids
    balling there eyes out.....
    
    seen the needle and the dmage done

>As one who firmly believes in the power of meditation, though, I have to
>say that sometimes, if the will is there, that there can be a Ouija Board
>effect to our daydreams.  


	I -think- I understand what you're getting at when you
	compare my experiences to using a Ouija board - you're
	saying that I wanted to see these things, and so I did?

	maybe so...

	but I prefer to think that these were real.  a couple of
	them were physical and witnessed by other people, and
	interpreted in the same way as I did.  the other, the most
	profound, although not witnessed by anyone else, the effect 
	it had on me could certainly be witnessed...my depression
	lifted...

	I have tried, since then, to re-create the scenario and
	have it happen again - but it hasn't...if it was me making
	it happen before, why can't I again? 

	I have shared these things with other heads and have had
	them share with me other equally profound events that they
	experienced, all centered around the time of Jerry's death.
	I'm surprised, I guess, that more people here haven't had 
	something like this happen to them.  

	Love is real not fade away...

.6 - Since you called me "dude," and your sister's friend was 19, I have
a frame of reference nw, age-wise that is.  Nobody could tell me anything
when I was in my late teens, early twenties, or even in my early thirties,
either. 

This is no place to tell you a fraction of it.

I ain't bragging, believe me.  But I've been losing friends, acquaintences,
and family members since 1971, the year of my brother's first trip to prison
for posession.  It's 1995, and guess where that brother is.  And guess how
many times he's been in and out in 24 years.  I can't even tell you.  All
heroin.  But he's alive.  And he's always the first to admit that he is the
one who puts the needle in his arm every time he restarts that deadly habbit. 
And he'll tell you he knew how dangerous it was before he ever started in 1971. 
I'm sure, if still here, Jerry would own up as well.

I'm sorry about your sister's friend. What a waste of life. Especially if it 
was an accident due to experimentation.

Take solace.  A lot of junkies torture themselves for 20-30 years
before dying.  Witness Jerry.  The luckiest of all get cleaned up and get on
with life. 

I can't apologize for being so serious.  It just breaks my heart. Because
it doesn't have to happen, to Jerry or to anyone's friend.

-S

	...and getting back to spirituality ;-O...

	imho, we have been incarnated at this time to experience
	the world as it is to learn something from it...

	lucky us - we were here to hear Jerry play - and we were
	here to listen to his words about life/death/life-after-death -
	and if we wanted to, we could have been pulled into a whole
	new way of thinking, lots of doors were opened...

	I choose to focus on the real positive lessons that his
	life and music could teach - but, he was a human afterall,
	I just simply choose to not focus on or judge the negative...

	Debess

    Last several..... Good messages here let's make sure we do not
    make the same mistakes, and perhaps we can influence others not to
    do same. 

.10 - I think that's all I'm trying to say.  Thanks.

.9 - I reiterate, it didn't have to happen.  Jerry had been
in an alcohol/drug hospital before, and we all know damn well that they
introduce people to methods of recovery in those places.  I guarantee
you that by the time he reached Serenity Knowles, Jerry was tired,
lonely, and shattered.  As you or someone said, he was human.

-S

                                                         
    Seems Kids feel they're off the hook just because they're snorting it
    instead of injecting it.   
                 
    This countries drug education tactics suck!  When I was in the 6th
    7th & 8th grades (early/mid 80's) the drug education program hyped
    out how utterly aweful drugs are and how you'd be fried out if you 
    did them, E.O.S.  There were scary were ads on TV (as there still is), 
    Nancy Regan was spouting all this crap and the "War on Drugs" was cranking 
    up.  I, as any normal/rebelious teenager after seeing all this hype, 
    couldn't wait to get my hands on the first "drugs" available to me.  I 
    knew I wanted to try it cause it was so incredibly hyped!   Perhaps we 
    should teach kids the medical aspects of drug interaction, show them whats
    going on, not just what will happen if you try it.  Stop the hype
    it's total gype.  Not that this has anything to do with Jerry, but,
    clearly something different ought to be considered. 

	since I don't expect that I will be a heroin addict
	during this lifetime, the lesson of "heroin is a bad thing"
	is -not- what I got from Jerry's life/death...

	that there is another level of consciousness that we can
	strive towards, 
	that there are other ways to lead your life besides the "norm", 
	that there's humor in the cosmos, 
	that if you follow your passion, and do your best, good will
	come out of it
	and definately that if you treat others well, it will come back to 
	you...

	those are some of the things I learned 

	Debess

    
    Thank you, Debess, for starting this note, and for sharing these
    experiences with us.  I'm sure that Hampton Beach was a 'special' place
    to be that night, since the only other Grateful Dead guitarist was
    there to perform, and many people congregating together with the same
    thoughts.  It seems like an appropriate time/place for Jerry to leave a
    sign (I like the stealie against the moon!! :^).
    
    And please, can we drop the 'drugs' conversation in this note?  We have
    enough of that in other discussions, and it does not apply in any form
    here.  Please?
    
    Hogan

    i got the lesson that heroin is a bad thing....
    let us not fool ourselves people....if you say the fat man wasn't a
    junkie you are living in la la land..he was..but he was trying to get
    clean.... one cannot use heroin recreationally....show me someone who does
    and convince me.... as for my sister's friend Michael, he was a junkie
    since age 14.... there was no experimentation.
    We have a problem here that is going to be real nasty if we do not do
    something about it..
    i think older folks have to realize that kids grow up at a very
    early age these days and they probably know what "brown acid" is at
    11 or 12 years old.....just my .02

.14>  enough of that in other discussions, and it does not apply in any form
    here.  Please?

I think it applies, but I agree, this is a rathole and off the specific
topic.  And I take the blame for that.  

Have Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Elvis, Lowell George, John Lennon,
or Frank Zappa ever really died?

Will Jerry ever really be dead?  I think those rhetorical questions
apply more closely to the topic.


Garcia or is it Gracia? Thanks,
-Steve

> Have Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Elvis, Lowell George, John Lennon,
> or Frank Zappa ever really died?

They have left this corporeal plane, and we will see them no more, nor hear
any more original music from them.  Of course, in the case of Jerry, we will
likely hear music that has been recorded and never released for years and
years to come.  When I when to pick up Hundredtjahre Halle the other day,
I noticed there was a new Zappa album out ;-)

PeterT

from an old Firesign theatre record:
  "He's dead now.  But lives on in stereo hi-fi!"

    re: new Zappa
    
    Strickly Commercial, I think it's called...old stuff. Peaches in
    Regalia is the first cut, which I listened to when buying tapes the
    other nite on those el-cheap-o headphones "listen before you buy"
    thingies. Sounded pretty bad cause of them too. 
    
    100 yr hall is 13.99 here in COlorado at Media Play...haven't picked it
    up yet but am gonna. 
    
    rfb

	Debess,

   I believe the following experience relates to your basenote. I'm a fairly
grounded engineer-type "prove it to me" individual, but I don't discount the
possibility of phenomenon that we can't currently understand.

   There's a book by Sandra Ingerman called "Soul Retrieval". Sandra is a
practitioner of "Shamanic Healing/Journeying", which has been practiced for
thousands of years in similar forms by many different cultures around the
world. Sandra's practice is largely based on Native American shamanic
practices as taught by Michael Harner. Her practice, as described in the book,
largely deals with journeying into "other worlds" on behalf of someone else,
and retrieving for that person lost "fragments" of that person's soul, which
split off as a result of traumatic events in their past, such as physical
trauma, illness, or abuse. These lost fragments are then re-joined with the
client.

   A couple of years ago, I attended a 2 day workshop given by Sandra on
Shamanic Journeying. In the journeying, repetitive, constant drumming is used
to facilitate a meditative, or trance state. In this state, one can "journey"
to "other worlds", typically the "upper, lower, or middle" worlds. To do this,
one typically finds either a Power Animal, Spirit guide (in human form), or
both.

   On the first day, we were taught how to enter this meditative state (induced
by the drumming), and how to find our spirit guide and/or power animal.

   On the second day, we paired up with another participant to "journey on
behalf of the other person's question/problem". There were about 40 of us; I
paired up with a woman from Chicago that I had never met before. First, she
told me her question, and we *both* journeyed/tranced/meditated in search of an
answer from our respective "spirit guides". At the conclusion (after about 20
minutes), I told her what I had seen during my journey; she was amazed, she
said, at the level of detail with which it matched what she saw, which she
described to me.

   Still, I was dubious; since I had spoken first, she might have intentionally
or otherwise "created" the level of synchronicity. Then it was time for my 
question.

   When we finished, she related her "vision" to me first, and the level of
synchronicity was beyond coincidence. Also, the visions for the two questions
were not *anything* that would have been naturally derived from the question
itself. When Sandra polled the group, most of the people had had similar levels
of synchronicity.

   So, are there "other worlds" we can tap into, with spirit guides or power
animals who can show us things; or is this a convenient tool/metaphor that we
can use to facilitate exploration of subconscious wisdom? My engineering side
leans towards the latter; but I don't disallow for any possibilities. The
synchronicity between the woman and myself during our "journeys" could have
been a result of some ESP-like phenomenon we don't yet understand (we know that
living cells emanate radio frequencies; why couldn't they also be sensitive to
recieving them?). But in the end, I don't believe that's a question we can
answer yet, and I don't think it's important. 

   And why the heck am I relating this? Your deep emotional ties to Jerry
may make him the perfect "spirit guide" for you, and as much as I loved Jerry,
it's difficult to imagine a better guide to have around, with his ideals,
humanity, and prankster perspective. Wether he's really talking to you from
somewhere "out there", or as a part of your psyche that you can tap into via
meditation, I don't think we can conclusively answer that question yet, and if
his presence is of benefit, I can't imagine it mattering. I think it's
wonderful that you can talk to him, wherever "he" is.

   From another perspective, there's a book called "Cosmic Trigger" by Robert
Anton Wilson, in which the author describes a practise, roughly paraphrased:

1. Choose any object of devotion; Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Mary, etc.

2. Pray day and night to them; visualize them, spend your every waking moment
   thinking of them.

3. Eventually, usually within a couple of weeks, they will appear to you,
   while you are fully conscious and aware.

4. As soon as this happens, pick another object of devotion. Repeat steps 1-3,
   above.

5. Repeat as needed.

	Now, does the above practice summon any "external" spirit? Or does it
bring to light a phenomenon of the human brain? And does it matter, and is it a
question that we currently have the technology to answer? I don't think so, but
it sounds like a lot of fun (though I haven't tried it myself)....

     Also, FWIW, I have casette tapes of Michael Harner's Shamanic Drumming 
    if anyone in the area wants to give 'em a listen. As I said, it's
    strictly repetetive, constant drumming, geared to induce trance states;
    no fancy Mickey Hart stuff... :^)
    
         Take care,
    
-chuck
                                     

    re.19
    interesting stuff...I've always believed in the "super-natural", for
    lack of a better term....
    
    and Chuck...you don't sound too overly grounded too me!!  %^)
    
    
    rfb

    very cool chuck .. this opens doors to understanding some things 
    that are hard to explain with what might be called 'normal terms'
    
     

	Cool Stuff  Chuck


	reminds me of the Carlos Castenada books something about
	the Yaqui (sp) Indians. I read them years ago and Carlos
	1st used Peyote to "journey" into another world. He also
	had a mentor Don Genaro (if I remember correctly) and
	learned how to journey without Peyote. Very Interesting
	reading.


	Toby

Re: The last several - After reading, I can't refrain from stating
the irony:  The system of recovery from addiction, whether booze or dope, that
is most sucessful incorporates, at its core, prayer and meditation.  

> 1. Choose any object of devotion; Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Mary, etc.

That's what they proprose; that a person seeking help find something "greater
than yourself."  They use the word God, it's generic, if you think about
it.  But this system of recovery has helped millions get their lives
back together.  That's what places such as Serenity Knowles are all
about. 

And to be honest, I'm kind of pissed at that hospital.  Because
I'm wondering how in the Hell someone drops dead in a rehabilitation
facility.  They're staffed with so-called experts who are trained to know when
someone is in really rough shape, as Jerry was.  I'm not looking for
anyone or anything to blame, I'm just shaking my head and wondering.

-Steve

	good stuff chuck!

        I really like the idea of having Jerry as my "spirit guide",
        and that is exactly how that experience felt to me...
        I can remember thinking at that moment how powerful it felt
        to have that link into another dimension, and also, how
        wonderful it felt to be having a real conversation with him,
        something I was never fortunate enough to do while he was
        living.  All the levels that separated us then were now
        gone!  He was right there.  He seemed to be reveling in
        it too - almost like it was a very pleasant surprise for
        him to be able to do that too...
   
	but, I don't really want to continue to talk about my
	experience - just want to acknowledge what you had to say
	on the subject - some of it really hit home for me - some
	of it, good food for thought...

	the cool thing about what you entered, was the parts about
	some of the methodologies that are around to maybe have
	experiences like this - being open to possibilities and
	mindful of the methods could just "pull back the curtain"!

	the Dead's music doesn't speak to everyone (lots and -lots- 
	of people, granted, but not -everyone-) and we all know that 
	there's magic associated with the whole scene...so why not tap 
	into that now on a new level, now there's the extra dimension of 
	having Jer's spirit to guide us (hey, it seems he already was 
	speaking to our souls with his music, we have that head start)...

	Debess

    
    Like that last recipe, although, the item I wish to pray to is not a 
    person?  There is really no way of visualizing what Mother Nature looks
    like except for what is in the natural world...at least I can't picture
    a human as I look at what humans have done to her. 

	I just can't feel anger towards Jerry for living the life
	he led - it was his life - I can't feel anger at him for
	dying - we all have to - I can't feel anger at the recovery
	center for not keeping him alive - what's the point now...

	I do feel happy in the knowledge that he died in his sleep
	with a smile on his face, I do feel happy that he seemed to	
	want to recover, I do feel happy that he gave me so much joy
	for so many years because he was so passionate about his
	music...

	I can only live my own life...I can learn from others'...
	but I can only live my own...

re:                     <<< Note 487.24 by TECWT2::BOUDREAU >>>

Interesting stuff!

> Re: The last several - After reading, I can't refrain from stating
> the irony:  The system of recovery from addiction, whether booze or dope, that
> is most sucessful incorporates, at its core, prayer and meditation.  

Also interesting that I came to the same conclusion with regards to nicotine
addiction.  Once I got heavily into meditation about a year ago, I was able
to quit with no problem.

Now that I've cut way back on my meditation (too much so), I'm back on nicotine
again, dammit!  I know it's not coincidence.

> And to be honest, I'm kind of pissed at that hospital.  Because
> I'm wondering how in the Hell someone drops dead in a rehabilitation
> facility.  They're staffed with so-called experts who are trained to know when

But they're not trained cardiologists... Jerry needed a bypass or 3 to survive.
It was just coincidence IMO that he died while in rehab.

/Ken

>Now that I've cut way back on my meditation (too much so), I'm back on nicotine
>again, dammit!  I know it's not coincidence.

That's it!  Meditation gets you out of your physical self.  The physical and
psychological elements of life - the body and mind - all too often make people
slaves to their vices. And when those vices are narcotizing, the spirit dies,
little by little.  I think.

-Steve

    re:Now that I've cut way back on my meditation....
    
    oh...i thought you said "MEDICATION".......%^)
    
    
    rfb_with the right medication....

    	Hey now rfb,
    
    :    and Chuck...you don't sound too overly grounded too me!!  %^)
    :
    :
    :   rfb
    
       I said I was *fairly* grounded; I hope I'm never *overly* grounded! 
    
    :^)
    
    -chuck              

    
    
         ..... I must be on a different playing field here....I thought
    I was, but I guess I'm not.....maybe I am....maybe I'm not.....
    can someone show me the way to go??? Or at least point me in the
    general direction??? Hangin' out in the Universe with no pain, no
    emotions, no thoughts, no worries, nothing.....am I or am I not????
    
    
    ;^).
    

	didn't know if I should put this in the "what are you reading now"
	topic or this one - but, since I'm so interested in this stuff
	I'll put it here ;-)

	over the weekend I rec'd Dupree's Diamond News' "Celebrates Garcia"
	special edition (I think that's what it's called anyways).

	It is filled with heartfelt tributes and memories and thoughts on
	where do we go from here.  There are pieces written by Barlow,
	Mountain Girl, Bob Bralove, David Crosby, the various editors of the 
	magazine, David Gans, Sandy Troy, Steve Silberman, Robert Hunter's
	elegy, and more...  I don't know if it was the full moon (which I
	guess is always going to remind me of the day Jerry died) or getting
	this this weekend, but I experienced little periods of weeping again
	the past few days.  Sometimes I'm listening to a particularly 
	beautiful solo and I find myself with tears in my eyes - not tears
	of joy either.

	I highly recommend this because it is so heartfelt and for the most
	part there are some truly inspirational words.

	Anyways!!!, why I'm entering this in this note is the piece written
	by Steve Silberman (author of "Skeleton Key"), relates some 
	information about the Hunters and Jerry.  I think the day before
	he died, Jerry called Robert Hunter and thanked him for all the
	songs they had written together.  And then, "uncharacteristically"
	(it said), Jerry explicitly told Robert he loved him.  I think 
	Jerry knew.
	At 4 in the morning, Robert's wife woke up, and restless, she got
	up and walked out to the kitchen.  There was a cool breeze coming in
	the window, so she shut it.  Went to check on their child and went
	back to bed.  That's the time that Jerry was dying.  I think he was
	making a visit...

	Debess
	

    the hair on my neck is standing up after just reading the previous
    note...how does one go about getting Duprees?? I used to see/read them
    at shows, but have no idea now. 
    
    The last weekend that Shakedown played here in the Spgs, Dec 23&24,
     after the gig (like 3 AM) I was still up and playin tunes one night. 
    AN especially sweet Stella Blue got me goin again....
    
    In the End, 
    There's just a song.......
    
    
    
    
    
    rfb
    

    Duprees Diamond is a quarterly produced magazine available
    in book stores, and some record stores, I read that copy
    it was full of nice tributes.

	I ordered mine thru Terrapin Tapes - I called up and the next day
	it (and the multitude of blank tapes) was at my door - I couldn't
	believe it came so fast...

	Debess

	ps - what Josh said about pictures in those books he bought, this
	is FULL of some wonderful, wonderful pictures too