Conference rdvax::grateful

	Where ya goin'?


	Swoosh, swoosh, swoosh!!!!  ;-)


		-  kath 

well, that'll be the next debate!
once we have folks lined up to go, we'll debate where to go.

last year, we went to summit county Colo.
met up w/ RFB, Divide Dave, Tim Lawlow, Glennnnn and pahtied down.

	Well, if you did the Summit County thang, I would consider
	meeting up with you for a couple days of skiing, but wouldn't do 
	the whole thing.....(Any excuse to get to me to Colorado is an 
	option I can't pass up).	

	.....if I went to Colorado and didn't visit the 'rents, sis/her 
	family, and my bro, I would most assuredly be exiled from the state 
	for the rest of my life.  This would NOT be a good thing......

	So, killing two birds with one stone, can I be "conditionally 
	interested"?  :-)   You know me, I'm a woman, I, of course, like to 
	do things MY way.  :-)


	Let's see, Copper, A-Basin, Mary Jane, the back bowls of Beaver 
	Creek....Vail's back bowls on a week-day......I could get into this.
	

	=8-)

	kath

re  <<< Note 428.3 by DKAS::GALLUP "FEAR: False Expectations Appearing Real" >>>
                         -< Ski Bunny on Patrol..... >-




>	So, killing two birds with one stone, can I be "conditionally 
>	interested"?  :-)   You know me, I'm a woman, I, of course, like to 
>	do things MY way.  :-)

sure.


>	Let's see, Copper, A-Basin, Mary Jane, the back bowls of Beaver 
>	Creek....Vail's back bowls on a week-day......I could get into this.

back bowls.  yeah.

hey, deano, have you ever been to Vail?  have you don't the back bowls?
:-)

    
    I did China Bowl 2 years ago.  I decided to jump of the cliffs on 
    Dragons Teeth on my second run of the day.  Ended up with slightly torn
    medial collateral cartilage in both knees.  :^(  
    
    Real bummer,  lost out on a beautiful day of skiing at $42+, in splints
    for weeks,  physical therapy, etc...
    
    

    I hurt myself enough on the back bowls of Alma...any bowls usually
    effect my skiing, though.....%^)
    
    rfb

	<--- HA!
	yeah, it's best to save the bowls for apres ski!
	
	;-)

    
    Don't bore me with such idiotic questions!!!!!
    
    Of course I've done the back bowls!!!!!!!
    
    DON'T EVEN SPEAK TO ME!!!!!!!!
    
    ;-)

Bowls are not meant to be saved for after skiing!

    
    Have you done some back bowls in the back bowls???????

    
    re .5
    
    Mark, Dragons Teeth is tricky in places....gotta watch them rocks!
    
    Have tried Rasputin's Revenge???
    Oh my God!!!!  It's Cornice City o'er there....slash and I were 
    defeating the laws of gravity, then landing in 2 or 3 feet of
    powdahhhhhhhhh ahhhh ahhhhh cough cough hack.....well, I must say,
    I'll never forget it.

	I'll sit in the lodge and watch.  ;-)

	I always say, if you can't live cornice skiing vicariously 
	through others, then you don't know how to live at all ...

	(or maybe I mean "...stay alive at all.").


	Gimme the gates, I love speed.  ZZZZZooooommmmmm........


	WldKat

>Bowls are not meant to be saved for after skiing!

Agreed!

Bowls on the way up, bowls on the way down!
or if you x-ctry with the Co. heads - it's bowls all day!

glennnn

    Bowls all day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    yea...i can see it now...a little like a Warren Miller flick....
    
    "Burnin' the Bowls"

	Torquemaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	

	

    heard from Mike Bourdess's friend Dayton Dan (known here in Colo
    Springs as petemoss) that ya'll will be doin Breck again this year.
    What timeframe?? Heard Mike will be stayin a couple days over to come
    to the Springs too. I haven't skied ONCE this year yet, had a cast on
    my wrist for a torn ligament and have been wearing a splint since the
    cast was removed. Needless to say that wrist is weak as milk toast and
    will I haveta pay special close attention to NOT re-hurting it when I do
    go...but we could still, maybe, meet up at Shamas Otooles in Breck or
    at the brewery.
    
    rfb
    
    rfb

>    heard from Mike Bourdess's friend Dayton Dan (known here in Colo
>    Springs as petemoss) that ya'll will be doin Breck again this year.
>    What timeframe?? Heard Mike will be stayin a couple days over to come
>    to the Springs too.

well, sounds like you have more news than i do.  i'm on the verge of giving
up hope for a trip this year, since we weren't able to get enough people
interested.  jc and i were all set to do whistler, but we couldn't find anyone
else to go.  and i had thought that mike couldn't get the time off.

- rich

    well that's what I heard from petemoss last week, rich. 
    
    rfb

    
    Definitely going to be heading out to Colorado this year....
    
    I'm waiting for the airfares to take their usual pre spring break/
    post holiday plunge.   Probably farther into March this year, as 
    well as a return visit in July for my cousins wedding in some ghost 
    town somewhere (I'm the designated party pioneer/bachelor).
    
    How's the snow scene at 9-10K right now?????

   Re:                                    my cousins wedding in some ghost
        town somewhere (I'm the designated party pioneer/bachelor).
    
        
    	Do you have one in mind or will just any old ghost town do?
    
    8*)
    
    ...Mike (who knows of some ghost towns so ghosty that even the GHOSTS
    have moved out)

    
    re - L
    
    I believe the ghost town has already been selected.  I'd know it if you 
    mentioned the name....it's sort of a silly name.
    

    Like:
    Tincup?
    Buckskin Joe (the town, not the semi-amusement park)?
    Matterhorn?
    Animas City?
    Parrott City?
    Bondad?
    Amargo?
    Gato (A.K.A. Pagosa Junction)?
    McPhee?
    Gregory Gulch?

    
    Tincup is it!!!
    
    Right now he can't get there to check it out cause the road is 
    closed.  We hope to do a scouting mission when I'm out there in 
    March.  Hopefully this year I'll, once again, be blessed with the 
    sight of bighorn sheep grazing on the mountain sides around Gunison.
                                                                        

    MArch might be a leetle early to get in there...
    
    Some years, JULY might be a leetle early...
    
    ...Michael T. "Raised in Durango and Silverton (neither of which is
    		   a ghost town...yet)"Head

    you'll never make it to Tincup in March, Deane...unless you do so on
    skis. I don't even think the road is maintained in winter to St. Elmo,
    which you will need to get too WAY before you get to Tincup. 
    rfb

    
    
     Deane
    
    
     You can go around the mountain and come in from the west you don't
    have to go through St. Elmo....., but the road from Taylor res. is not
    maintained during the winter...... I make a fishing trip every summer
    up above Tincup to Mirror lake, which is about 5 miles above Tincup....
    
    Divide Dave

    
   > have to go through St. Elmo....., but the road from Taylor res. is not
   > maintained during the winter...... I make a fishing trip every
    
    	Yes, I recall my cous. driving me up to the res. last March....
    	eventually the road was buried in snow.  There's some big 
    	fish in that there body of water!  How far is that from Tincup?	

    i would say Tincup is about 10 miles from Taylor Res, that's just a
    guess...but to me, that's the long, long, long, long  way to Tincup...
    but not if yer comin from Gunnison, I guess.
    
    rfb

    
    WILD BILL! Drove the long last year coming back from Mirror and said it
    doesn't take that much longer since it's paved execpt for the road from
    Mirror to Taylor Res. The other way is over Cottonwood Pass, and thats
    abot 25 miles of dirt switch backs, nicer views but much slower due to
    the wash board road......
    
     Divide 

geezz... bourdess is gonna be in colo?  i gotta rattle his ass
to find out what's happening...

yeah, our scene is pretty lame.
i might just fly out to colo and wing it... party hahd around,
crash here and there...  nobody wants to commit to da trip.

    yer always welcome out here wit us, JC..Tumbledown is cheap!
    
    don't take as gospel the bourdess rumor, he only talks occasionaly with
    his friend petemoss out here....
    rfb

What dates are you guys talking about?

I'm supposedly going to Interop in Vegas at the tail end
of March....that's in the right general direction, ain't
it? ;-)

tim

    and in true digressive fashion, while we're at it, anyone ELSE going
    to InterOp?  DEChead convention in Vegas? :^)

well, i just spoke with the rasta bourdess mon and that rumor
has been confirmed.  his tent. plan is to be in colorasta during
the week of feb 20.  i just cawled the travel agent.  tix to
colo have gone up to $344 r/t, yesturday it was $278.

>his tent. plan is to be in colorasta during
>the week of feb 20.

for the whole week?  is he up for skiing?  can we count him as part of the
group again?  are we up to 4?

- rich

re    <<< Note 428.36 by ROCK::FROMM "This space intentionally left blank." >>>
                          -< i want snow, dammit!!! >-

for the whole week?  is he up for skiing?  can we count him as part of the
group again?  are we up to 4?

no.  yes.  no. no.


i tawked to him.
he's driving up w/ a friend.

    
    Someone here at CXO is offering a super condo deal at Snowbird, Utah
    that you folks might be interested in. Too bad it's not presidents day
    weekend !
    
    The situation this time of year is typical, the Utah area's have great
    snow, and the colorado area's, in general, suck.
    
    reposted from genral::colorado_classifieds.note:
    
	Chris Huckins
    	DTN: 592-4967 (Please don't call)
    	CSC32::HUCKINS (Please send mail)
    
    			Snowbird, Utah Condo for Rent
				Feb 4-11, 1995

	Iron Blosam Lodge Studio (Sleeps 4)
 	Access to pool, whirlpool, sauna & steam room
	Walking distance to lifts at Snowbird
	1 mile to Alta (Public transportation available)
	30 Miles from Salt Lake City airport
		
	Snowbird Ski Area:	3100' vertical, 2000+ Acres
				25% Beginner, 30% Intermediate, 45% Expert
				7 Lifts + Tram
				115" Base (1/18/95)

	Snowbird Central Reservations Rate: $194/night (!!)
	Will rent for $250/week

>	Will rent for $250/week

$250/week for the whole friggin' condo?  i.e. only $8.93/person/night?

- rich

    I see the Air Force guy and his 10 year old son that were lost in
    Turkey during a XC-ski trip were found safe and alive yesterday. aftyer
    9 days of nothing but snow to eat...Turkish medical authorities say it
    is "medically impossible for them to be alive..."
    
    amazing....
    
    
    rfb

Based on what I've heard from USAF/Navy/etc. pilot survival training, this
doesn't surprise me.

- jeff

    well I guess Turkish pilots aren't known to survive as long....;^)
    
    rfb

>    9 days of nothing but snow to eat...Turkish medical authorities say it
>    is "medically impossible for them to be alive..."

i thought you would quickly die from dehydration with no water, but that the
body could survive for a significant amount of time with only water.  (not that
i'd particularly want to try it, mind you.)  after all, when people go on
hunger strikes, aren't they just consuming water?  and people have certainly
gone on hunger strikes for longer than 9 days.

- rich

    I think the "medically impossible" term came from the combination of no
    food, only melted snow in their mouths as water, EXRTREME cold and
    blizzard conditions, etc....i had heard they were going to give up
    the search UNTIL SPRING! because there was no way the missing would be 
    alive. This all came from CNN at lunch time BTW...the kids feet did
    look pretty bad (frostbite)
    rfb

    Bobby Sands' hunger strike lasted alot longer than 9 days, didn't it?

    
    	And isn't Dick Gregory still on a hunger fast? I think he started
    his in 1971......
    
    

    ABC reported they had some candy too...
    
    rfb

>    	And isn't Dick Gregory still on a hunger fast? I think he started
>    his in 1971......
    
who's he?    

- rich

> who's he?    


The man with two first names!



:-)

>>And isn't Dick Gregory still on a hunger fast? I think he started
>>his in 1971......
>  
>who's he?    

Oh God.  Suddenly I feel so old...;-)

tim

    aahahahahaaaaa   
    
    now someone ask who Lenny Bruce is 
    
    

Stop it! Stop it right this instant! ;-)

Hey, at least Dick Gregory is still alive...

Next I suppose we'll have people wondering who Abbie Hoffman is...

arghhhh

;-)

tim

P.S.  Rich, Dick Gregory is a former standup comedian who used to be
very, shall we say, portly.  He gave up his work for political or
religious reasons which escape me now (anyone remember?) and went on
a hunger strike.  He's now a very skinny, very funny, vegetarian.

    I think he went on his first hunger strike in support of the
    Chicago Seven, so it would be political reasons.
    
    He's gone on fasts to bring attention to lots of causes.
    
    Now, let's see, the Chicao 7, were Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman,
    Bobby Seals (I think), and wow, where did that brain cell go....
    Anyone reember the rest of them?
    
    I believe they lead a major protest at the Democratic convention,
    which was held in Chicago. Thhey started a chant "The Whole World 
    is Watching"....This chant was captured on the song Liberation,
    which appeared on the Chicago Transit Authority album. 
    
    

    Tom Hayden leader of the SDS and now state senator...
    Bobby Seale was actually the 8th member of the 7 i believe...
            

    Tom Hayden was one... Phil Ochs was one of the organizers but was not
    arrested or charged.
    ...Michael T. "Gettin' on in years myself"Head

    phil ochs was actually in his forties at the time wasn't he?
    and the 7 who preached "don't trust anyone over the age of 25"
    were actually in their late 20's early 30's were they not?
     

	was it Dick Gregory who, in a restaurant, after being told that
	whatever he did to the chicken he had just ordered would be done
	to him, pick it up and kissed it on the bum??

    
    i CERTAINLY  hope  so
    
    

    Just, by coincidence, finished a bio of ol' Phil, titled "Death of a
    Rebel".
    
    He was born in El Paso (because his Dad was stationed in Columbus, N.M.
    in the Army) (his Dad was a surgeon who went overseas, got gaught in a
    battle on the front lines, and came out so shell-shocked that he had
    trouble holding a scalpel after that) in 1940. Phil was in his late 20's
    (and pretty well-established in the N.Y. folk scene) when he, Rubin,
    and Hoffman started planning the Yip demonstrations in Chicago in 1968.
    
    ...Mike Phil(the other one)Head
    

Dick Gregory has a great book called "Nigger".

I read it a long time ago but it left a lasting impression.

bob

ps.
He is also dietician and recently (2 yrs ago) helped a man from ?NYC? who 
hadn't left his apartment for God_knows_how_many years due to the fact that he 
was too big to fit thru the door jams.  Remember that?  
The man he helped more_recently died.

Gee, I don't ever remember Gregory being that portly.  Certainly a bit 
more girth than he has recently, but not obese.  But maybe recent views
have replaced the portly ones.   And I certainly remember him trying to
help the real portly one from Long Island a number of years ago.  That
guy had a number of psychological problems too (ie, after slimming
down somewhat with Gregory's help, he still was unable to walk outside
his house, at which point I think Gregory gave up on him.)

I miss Phil Och's, but then, I guess it wouldn't matter, outside of
a small circle of friends...

PeterT

    now wait a minute...Phil Ochs, the one I'm familar with, was givin the
    guy some of you call "Bob" a run for his money as number 1 folk artist
    in the sixties...he died from inhalation of nitrious cause he had a
    mask tied to his face...ya'll must be talkin about another Phil
    Ochs??????
    
    rfb
    
    

    I thought Phil Ochs committed suicide by hanging himself ???
    
    "Bob"  Lennon used to refer to him as "Zimmy"  love it

    rfb
    that would be Phil Ochs-side the one you are talking about?
    :^)

    re quite a few back...
    
    i thought it was "don't trust anyone over 30" and i thought it was
    Abbie who said it?  maybe in his book "Steal this Book"?
    
    				da ve

    
    oh yeah...  another lovely Abbie quote...  "stay away from needle
    drugs...  Richard Nixon is the only dope worth shooting..."
    

    Probably da ve....
    i know it had something to do with not trusting old people..
    :^)
    

    
    hey...  i resemble that remark...

	you just wait ::leblanc_c!!
	
	payback is a b*tch. you'll get old too.
	
	Jay (sorry, gotta go take a nap now)

    Watch it, you young whippersnapper, of I'll beat you with my cane!
    

    
    When Mike's done beating ya I'll run you down with my wheelchair,
    young'an
    
     Divide
    
    
    

    Yea and i'll trip ya with my beard...
    
    
    except i don't have one...*:'\

>    Now, let's see, the Chicao 7, were Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman,
>    Bobby Seals (I think), and wow, where did that brain cell go....
>    Anyone reember the rest of them?
    
    Since this harkens back to my heyday, I can answer it.  The Chicago
    Eight were Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Dave Dellinger,
    Bobby Seals, Rennie Davis, John Froines, and Lee Weiner.  Bobby, a
    Black Panther, had actually had very little to do with demonstrations
    at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, but was indicted
    along with the others.
    
    Bobby wanted his own attorney, rather than Bill Kunstler, who was
    representing the others.  They had another attorney as well, but his
    name escapes me right now.  Anyway, Judge [sic] Julius "They don't make
    pigs worse than me" Hoffman denied Bobby the right to select his own
    attorney.  So, whenever the defense had finished examining a witness,
    Bobby would stand up and begin his own questioning, demanding his right
    to represent himself.  Hoffman kept finding him in contempt, and
    eventually ordered him gagged and bound to his chair.  Eventually,
    Bobby's case became a separate one altogether, and the remainder of the
    defendants then became known as the Chicago Seven.
    
    Sid

    thanks for that history lesson Sid...I was around then too...but
    couldn't remember more than a couple of names yesterday when the trivia
    queation of the day was asked...can you inform us as to waht happened
    to all? I know Abbie is with the radical angels, Rubin is a suit,
    Hayden married/devorced Ann MArgret, errr I mean Jane Fonda and is/was
    into radical politics then turned sorta to the middle, Seals is
    doing work in the ghetto, I believe...the rest????
    
    rfb

    i think Seals has also published a cookbook...  "Barbecueing with
    Bobby" or something like that...  who'd a thunk it?
    
    					da ve

    
    Hey! Colorasta's...
    
    I've been watching the weather closely the past couple days....lookin
    like there be some snow fallin out west there.  
    
    rfb, how's the front range lookin?

    supposed to RAIN! today Dean-o, turning to snow after midnight
    according to the weather channel. Divide Dave and I were skiing last
    weekend around ALMA, the wind on Hoosier pass was terrible! so we
    dropped down closer to Tumbledown and jsut did a 4x4 road in the trees
    that had enough snow to get good kicks and glides comin out. But the
    Summit county side has much more snow, but needs more. 
    
    rfb
    so WHO did play COwboy CUrtis????

    
    How bout Copper mtn area?
    
    I heard Maryjane also has significant snow.

    Copper and Cooper are in Summit County..a little past (or before,
    depending on if yer comin from Denver or comin from the Spgs) Breck. 
    Tom Lawlor can answer about the conditions better than me, he was
    downhill racin last Sunday at Vail.
    
    rfb

    Last i read in a paper Bobby Seale was a sales manager for some 
    natural type juice company...founded by one of the other 60's radicals?

    
    Juice Newton?

    FWIW
    if anybody wants to get a good in depth look at Bobby Seale, Huey
    Newton et al..there is a book called "The Power and the Glory"
    written by David Williams, one of the original Panther members..very
    good look at the political power struggles within the organization and
    the agent-provocateur attempts by the US gov't, FBI et al to infiltrate
    their ranks
    chris

    
    	Just to set it straight, Jerry Ruben wrote "Steal This Book".
    
    
    
    

    Hoffman didn't write that?????

           <<< Note 428.83 by XLIB::REHILL "Call Me Mystery Hill" >>>

 >>    	Just to set it straight, Jerry Ruben wrote "Steal This Book".
    
    
I always thought Hoffman wrote this.  

bob
 
    

    I'm in the hoffman camp on this one too....lets us know ifn ya got
    access to the book. An old girl friend (diggin this WAY outa the past)
    had both YIPPIE! and STEAL THIS BOOK and I thought both were by
    hoffman. 
    rfb

Sorry, Mystery, but I'm absolutely positive Abbie wrote the book - his
picture was on the back cover,if I recall.  My college roommate had a copy
of it - it was hilarious.

tim

> >>    	Just to set it straight, Jerry Ruben wrote "Steal This Book".
        
>I always thought Hoffman wrote this.  

same here.  (along with "Steal This Urine Test".)

- rich

    
    	Hmmm, well, then if Jerry didn't write Steal This Book, what book
    did he write?
    
    	I remember reading Steal This Book, (and in fact I did steal it),
    the picture I see on the back cover, in my mind, is of a beared
    Jerry, with dayglow paint stripes on his cheeks, and a headband.
    It was a bearded Jerry, and I don't recall Abbie ever having a beard...
    
    	Anyways, my wife the librarian is looking up the answers to both of
    these questions...Who wrote Steal This Book, and what book did Jerry
    Reuben write. Too bad Carol Roberts, the local librarian, isn't on
    today....
    
    

    It was Hoffman.

    I think Jerry wrote "Revolution for the Hell of it" and "Do It",
    but I could be wrong...

>    if anybody wants to get a good in depth look at Bobby Seale, Huey
>    Newton et al..there is a book called "The Power and the Glory"
>    written by David Williams, one of the original Panther members..very
>    good look at the political power struggles within the organization and
>    the agent-provocateur attempts by the US gov't, FBI et al to infiltrate
>    their ranks

    Conspiracy theorists take note, how many of these folks are dead today?
    

    Huey Newton-shot outside a crack house
    Geronimo Pratt-killed in prison i believe
    Bobby Seale-selling juice?
    David Williams-writing books
    Tupac Shakur's mom-still around as far as i know..she was one of the
    original NYC Panthers?
    who else is there?

re : >    Bobby Seale-selling juice?
    Didn't he turn religious at one point?  
    I'm not sure who else there is... Abbie is of course dead, as is
    Jerry...   pretty high toll.    

    
    	Do It! That's the one I was thinking of....
    
    	I standcorrected.
    
    

    
    OK.  Here's the deal so far on this ski trip.  We need some definites
    or we won't be able to get any decent rates.  I am expecting that
    airfare and lodging will cost no more than $550 per person no matter
    where we go.  
    
    
    Salt Lake City: 	Hotels rooms only
    		    	Low cost (~$60 per night/double occupancy)
    			Easy access to 10+ ski resorts 	
    			Tough booze laws
    
    Park City:	        Prices way too high
    			Way too glitzy and glamorous
    			Minimum $200 per night for 4 person condo	    
    			Rip off
    
    Jackson Hole:	Excellent prices (~110 per night for 4 person lodge)
    			Lively town 
    			Possible side trip to Bozeman/Big Sky/Bridger Bowl
    			Could fly in and out of Bozeman
    
    Summit County CO:	Reasonable prices (Blue River Condos)
    	 		Know the area
    			rfb and Divide D are there
    			6+ ski resorts within an hour drive
  
                                                         

What dates?  I haven't been receiving any mail about
this, so I'm out of touch.

tim

    
    
    If i get a vote I say Summit county!!
    
     Divide D
    

Tim,
we haven't picked any dates yet.
i recall that you said 1st wk in mar, right?
is this still the case?
i was at slash's last night.
he's pretty much out for this trip as well.

I'm supposed to be at DECUS/Canada in Vancouver from
2/25 until 3/1 (friday).  I can probably do it the
following week, on my way home, so to speak.  If so,
I'll probably be unaccompanied.

tim