Conference rdvax::grateful

    Bruce Springsteen!

 I don't even want to think about that...






 Jum

    
    No one that I can think of.....
    
    Hogan

    
    I really don't think it would happen..
    
     "Take you to the leader of a Band"
    
    Don

	Nope, I just can't see it either.

	When Jerry walks on stage, it's king!   
	
	Only Jerry can grind those gears

    I've often wondered who would step in if Jerry or Bobby were not
    playing in the band.  Love to say Clapton but it's not really his style
    guitar.  I think he'd be game, but it just would'nt fit.  Lets just
    hope we don't have to speculate. There's always Albany, and Buffalo and
    MSG and BG for next year.  Though it would be a very long winter.

    Geez, why don't we write him off already! 

    There was an interview with Ken Kesey on the previous incarnation of
    the Grateful Dead hour.  I don't remember a lot of the details, or the
    reason it came up (probably the groups age came into it) but they started
    comparing the Grateful Dead to the San Francisco 49ers.  So Jerry was
    akin to the starting quarterback, but sometimes they'd put in the
    second string.  Ken's suggestion for Jerry's backup was Mark Knopfler.

    ME!
    
    :-)
    

No way would they even consider a temporary replacement.  The Dead are not the
Dead without Jerry.  Who would it be?  Do you know anyone who plays with his
style and sound?  I don't.  Plus, he/she'd have to learn a shitload of tunes. 
Forget it. (Although I'd certainly give it a try :-)  I know a bunch of dead
tunes!).

In the interview with Bob that GerG posted, Bob said he could use some time
off.  I'm sure the rest of the band would say the same.  This could be a good
time for them to get a rest and maybe write some more tunes.

adam_bummed

    No one could ever replace Jerry.

    John McLaughlin . . . .
    
    
    But it would never be the same.
    
    

    my personal opinion is if Jerry is no longer able to tour, then I'd
    hope the band would call it a day.
    
    Chris

    Well, I've always wanted to see Mark Knopfler play with the 'Dead ... I
    think his guitar style is kinda a cross between Jerry and Clapton
    anyway.  I wouldn't want to even think about him *replacing* Jerry
    though, just making a guest appearance or twenty.
    
    The only person I can think of who could possibly sit in for Jerry for
    a while is his daughter ... Edie Brickell ... ;^)
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    It's like asking who can replace Einstein or Beethoven or Picasso.
    Some individuals are just so unique and talented that they can never be
    replaced.  They make a mark upon reality that endures throughout time.

    tommy bolin.....
    
    get healthy, Jerry
                      rfb

    The dude from Metallica when HE recovers. ;)
    
    Rob
    

    The music and the experience created by the band called the Grateful
    Dead, transcends the individuals themselves.  Though we all know that
    Jerry's going to be back jamming soon, the issue of succession is an
    interesting one.  The band moved forward with the passing of pig pen
    and brent and the other changes that have taken place in the past 27
    some odd years.  There is no reason why the music cannot live on past
    change.  In fact it has.  Rather than at some time closing the book on
    a legend, change must ocurr to renew the vitality of the experience. 
    As Ken leaves Digital, life goes on.  Life is different, but the
    foundation remains.  There is a parallel here.  The dead is an idea as
    much as it is a band.  Ideas that do not change become obsolete, and
    are forgotton.  The music will never stop.
    
    "no one noticed but the band's all packed and gone"
    "were they ever here at all"?
    
    "and they kept on dancin'"
    
    
    Jeff
    

    Does KO play guitar?  He's got some time off coming this fall...
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    Pat

    "Planet of New Orleans" was blasting on my car stereo on the way
    in.  Aaahh, what the blues do to me.
    
    Thought about it last night.  I wouldn't want to see the Dead w/out
    Jerry.  Just wouldn't be the same.
    
    sparky

    Re: .22
    >Thought about it last night.  I wouldn't want to see the Dead w/out
    >Jerry.  Just wouldn't be the same.
    
    Me too. I can't bear the idea of it.  
    
    Carol_who_is_unusually_depressed_this_a.m._after_catching_too_much_of
    the_GOP_speechifiers_last_nite.  Those dudes are scary as hell. 
    Sanctimonious sob's too.  
    
    

    I know, Carol.... I know... 

Jerry's ill.   I very much hope that he recovers.   I also very
much hope that the Grateful Dead tours again, with Jerry playing 
lead guitar.  

However,  Jerry may not tour again, either for health reasons,
or because he's tired of touring.   There are five other 
excellent musicians in the Grateful Dead, and a host of equally
talented support people.  Even if Jerry doesn't continue with
the Dead as he has in the past,  I would very much like to see
Mickey and Bill and Vince and Phil and Bob play again...

This attitude about "don't change" is something that has bothered
me in the past...  And I see lots of it reflected in many aspects
of the "Deadhead" phenomena.   So much of the energy spent around
the Dead goes into the past or the future, from making up setlists
during a concert to predicting what the next song will be.
When you're concerned about the last song or the next song,
you're not listening to the current song!

If there is any "lesson" to be learned from the Dead, it is this:
the primacy of the current moment, of NOW.

The most creative part of a Dead show is Drums/Space, when the
band composes new music in unison, playing music that they have
never played before, nor will ever play again.  If it were not
for drums/space, I believe that the band would have stopped touring
long ago.   Yet many of their fans have expressed the sentiment
that they wouldn't mind seening D/S dropped from the show.  Without
D/S, there would be no show!   

Aside from being physically tired, one of the reasons stated by
the band for considering a sabbatical or not touring *at all* anymore
is that they are tired of playing the same old songs...  it's
becoming harder and harder to find new ways of playing the same
old stuff...  that's why they were all so pleased to have four
new songs to play...  that's why they are constantly looking
for new material to use...

The Grateful Dead without PigPen was not the same old Grateful Dead.
The Grateful Dead without Keith and Donna was not the same Grateful Dead.
The Grateful Dead without Brent is not the same old Grateful Dead.
The Grateful Dead without Jerry would not be the same old Grateful Dead.
But the Grateful Dead on any given night is not the same old Grateful
Dead, either...  That's why so many of us go to all the shows we can,
because each one is something new.

The band is always renewing itself, always changing.
That's why we love them so much, because they always keep
growing, challenging themselves and challenging us.

To stop growing and changing is to die.

/bruce
                 

re:       <<< Note 287.25 by VSSCAD::LARU "run, or fight, ... or Dance!" >>>

>  The Grateful Dead without Jerry would not be the same old Grateful Dead.

IMO, the Grateful Dead without Jerry would not be...period.

		Dave

    
    > IMO, the Grateful Dead without Jerry would not be...period.
    
    You said it.  Exactly.
    
    

Note 287.25               
    
Bruce,
    
    It isn't an attitude of "don't change".. it a recognition of a realism
    and that realism is that some things are so unique and special that
    they burn brightly for as long as they last and then they fade into
    the void.  
    
    The Dead wouldn't be The Dead without Jerry.
    
>If there is any "lesson" to be learned from the Dead, it is this:
>the primacy of the current moment, of NOW.

    So why do you worry about tomorrow... about what will happen then?  
    Be happy now instead.

    Mary,
    
    I'm not worried about the future...  the original question
    was only supposed to lead to idle conjecture...  but the 
    reluctance to even think about it made me wonder about the
    Dead experience itself, and I tried to redirect the discussion.
    Alas,  it seems I'm not as good a writer as I think! :-)
    
    /b

    bruce..
    i think you made some good points....GOD-FORBID anything should happen
    to Jerry, but.....the other boyz would continue on with something, it
    may not be what we knew as the dead, but it will be SOMETHING. 
                                                                   rfb

    
    Jerry is a unique guitar player, and that has greatly shaped the
    Grateful Dead.  He also is the writer (w/ Hunter) of the majority of
    the Dead's music, and sings (IMO) more than half the songs they play. 
    They could lose Pigpen, Keith, Brent, because the two main singers
    (Jerry & Bob) were always there through each incarnation of the band.
    
    That is why I can't see the Grateful Dead playing a tour with someone
    else siting in for Jerry.  They literally wouldn't be the Grateful
    Dead.
    
    Hogan

    Bruce, and all noters
    
    	I agree with your comments whole-heartedly, and wish others did. 
    The band is in fact an experience as much as a musical group. 
    Believing that the Dead end without Jerry goes against part of what
    they stand for. (refer to 287.20 for details)
    
    	Their music is a continuum through the past three decades in which
    many have participated.  Are Bruce Hornsby and Branford part of the
    Dead? I say yes. The Dead without Jerry would be a different Dead, but
    the Dead today is a different Dead than 1970.
    
    	To be honest, I don't think the Dead would ever play under the name
    if Jerry OR Bobby left.  I do however believe they could.  How many of
    you would really not go to a show if Jerry or Bobby were not there. 
                                                                       

 As Hogan said, Garcia is a unique guitar player..his playing is a major 
component of the Dead...Carlos Santana is a unique guitar player and is
a major component of his band...Mark Knopfler is unique...there are a handful
comparatively speaking, of unique musicians whose sound IS the band they play
in...take them away and you have a different band..


I can't see them going on as the Dead were Garcia to hang it up (and I think
we are being premature with this discussion)...a dkfferent band, perhaps..but
it would not be the Dead..would I go see them?  Probably, but it still would
NOT be the Dead..If Phil were to leave it would not be the Dead..same with
Billy and Mickey and Bobby...





Jum

    I read a book a while back by Alan (I think) Steele called
    _Orbital_Decay_.  Perhaps already discussed here some time ago, but 
    I've only been around for 6/7 months.  The premise of the book is 
    about a bunch of "beam jockies"  who are building a satellite to 
    beam microwave power down to earth.  The satellite is being built
    in orbit sometime in the next century.  Well, to get to the point,
    one of the characters is a deadhead ("Virgin Bruce") and he is
    often singing Dead songs.  He mentions at one point how the Dead
    are still playing, though of course all the original members have
    long since been replaced.  Just popped to mind whilst reading this
    thread.
    
    Later,
    PeterT
    

    that's the spirit!!!! %^)
                             rfb

    Ghessh, this got me thinking.  If PHIL left the dead, well, I don't
    know if I could handle that.  I believe Phil IS the dead; he has that
    unique style and sound that IS the dead.  No one could replace Phil.
    
    If I should be so bold, I believe the dead could live on without anyone
    EXCEPT Phil and Jerry.  Jerry and Phil are the two extremes (literally
    tonally) of the dead.  They define the expandable boundaries of sound
    that is the dead.
    
    However, there is the magic of the colaboration between the drummers...
    
    dave

    The unique opinion you have just put forth proves what I think both
    bruce and I have been saying.  The dead IS music!!! not just six
    individuals.  For instance, I prefer Bob over Jerry, (just barely
    though).  Everyone will have a different opinion on the individual band
    members, but the power of the music remains.  That music can be created
    without all six individuals.
    
    J

    Any orchestra can play Beethovan... but only Beethovan can *be*
    Beethovan... can *create* Beethovan.

re: Note 287.39 by VERGA::STANLEY 
    
    >Any orchestra can play Beethovan... but only Beethovan can *be*
    >Beethovan... can *create* Beethovan.
    
    
    "I'm not Beethoven" - J. Garcia's first words after coming out
    of a diabetic coma in 1986.
    

    Synchronicity!!! :-)

    
    >"I'm not Beethoven" - J. Garcia's first words after coming out
    >of a diabetic coma in 1986.
    

Interesting.  Was this in reference to something or just out of the blue??

Jest curious...

Scott

 "I'm not Beethoven"..thats a classic :-)






 Jum

    could it be Ger's pulin our collective leg?? %^)
                                                    rfb

    >could it be Ger's pulin our collective leg?? %^)


Nahhhh, I'd never expect that from Ger....

8^)

    No, I'm not pulling anyone's leg (or any other appendage for that
    matter :-). He woke up and those were his first words. Presumably
    out of the blue. No one else remembers this?
    
    - Gerry

    NO I don't rememebr this! amazing! in that case, i second Jums previous
    words...what a classic! would make for a grate t-shirt, wouldn't it?
    a pic of the fat man with that quote above it!!!
                                                    rfb

	Har har har, thats a funny one!  I was going to write in 
	here that it would be funny if he just woke up and said
	that, then I read Ger's note...he did wake up and say 
	that!!   I'm laughin!  Maybe thats an important message?

    
    I remember "I'm not Beethoven" .... he absolutely did say it.
    
    c

re:                      <<< Note 287.46 by SCOONR::GLADU >>>

>                    No one else remembers this?

I remember.  I had forgotten until you put the quote in today.  I nearly
laughed out loud.

		Dave

Very few people know that Jerry's next words were "but I play him on T.V."

;^)

- DC

    I'll bet he *was* Beethovan in a former existence. :-)
    
    At any rate... synchronicity is getting stronger.. ;-)

    
    >Very few people know that Jerry's next words were "but I play him on
    >T.V."
    
    Hah!!  :-)
    
    

Ok, then I guess he didn't get me after all - hah!    
    

Geeez, getting so I don't know what to believe in here!!! 8^)

Scott

re: Note 287.52 by VERGA::STANLEY 
    
    >I'll bet he *was* Beethovan in a former existence. :-)
    
    According to the man himself, he's decidely *not* Beethoven. :-)
    
    - Gerry

    Not *this* time around anyway... ever wonder what the other side of
    the conversation was saying? :-)

    >I'll bet he *was* Beethovan in a former existence. :-)
    
    Nah, couldn'a been ... Jerry's entirely too mellow to have ever been
    Beethoven.
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    silly deadheads...  i thought everyone knew that Jerry was Mozart 
    in a previous life!  :^)  (and Bobby was Botacelli)
    
    					da ve

    Oh yea.. that's right.. I remember now. :-)

    Hey,..
    
    	That Buddy Chelli and don't you fergit it!!!!
    
    
    							/
    

I just read all 60 replies to this topic (the last 15-20 digressed a bit) and
I was surprised to see people sort of getting upset over Bruce's question.
All he did was ask a "what-if" question and some of you jumped on his case.
If you can't deal w/ topics like this, next unseen!

---

Anyways, a couple of folks I think would fit the "what-if" question would
be:

	- I second (or third?) Mark Knophler (sp?) 

	- Steve Kimmock from the band ZERO.  Seen him once;  have heard him
 	  on some boots (Rainforest band).  Would have to see more of him.

	- John McLaughlin - he might fit, but, I think he's a little too
	  "wild" for that position.

    There's a whole school of "Jerry inspired" pickers who have spent
    a significant part of their life copping Jerry's licks and sound.
    One obvious example is the guy with Edie Brickell. There are lots
    of Dead-style bands (like Max Creek and Slipknot) playing bars from 
    coast to coast. So, would you want to see someone fill that slot
    who can "do Jerry" well or would you prefer something completely
    different?
    
    - Dave

who's Mark Knophler?  what has he done musically that i might recognize?

- rich

>who's Mark Knophler?  what has he done musically that i might recognize?

Lead guitar/vocals for Dire Straits.  Also has some solo stuff.

Scott

    Hmmm, I've heard (probably in r.m.gdead) that Knophler's not too
    comfortable with improvisation.  Not that I've seen Dire Straits
    to be able to tell.  But wasn't he with EC about 4 or 5 years back at
    GW?  Hmmm, so maybe I have seen him!  What do I know anyway?
    
    PeterT
    

    since Jay mentioned this string, and i had a minute, i thought i'd
    check it out too...  interesting revisiting here!!!!!
    
    kinda sad too though... not only cuz of the Jerry stuff, but also cuz
    of all the cool folks that wrote stuff here, but aren't "here" anymore
    for one reason or another...
    
    					da ve_missing_many_old_friends
    					(but still rejoicing in the ones
    					i still have!  :^)

>    of all the cool folks that wrote stuff here, but aren't "here" anymore

	yeah, that kinda bummed me out reading these replies.
	
	sigh

    memories.....

  I never heard the part about Jerry coming out of the coma and saying "I'm
  not Beethoven".
  
  That's a little spooky.  Beethoven went deaf in his middle period -- most
  of his really great late stuff was composed without the capacity to hear
  it played back (from outside his head at least).  Maybe Jerry realized he
  was going to have to emerge from his afflictions (not to mention his coma)
  to continue creating...  Couldn't do it with pure mind like Mr B.

  (Then again, maybe Jerry was just being his usual humble self-effacing self.)
  
  Then there's the anecdote about Beethoven on his death-bed, hearing
  (feeling) a roll of thunder, sitting bolt upright, shaking his fists at
  the sky and shouting "...I will never be defeated!"
  (The actual translation is 3 phrases, forget the first 2.)   Weird.  - JayC.