Conference rdvax::grateful

    
    "not fade away" is a buddy holly tune. the stones covered it early on in
    their career; it was on their first live album (i forget the name, it
    was about 65 or 66)  dead didn't put it on record until Skullf*ck in 71. 
    
    i can't think of the stones doing any dead songs, but the dead have 
    done several stones songs: "this might be the last time" being the
    first that comes to mind. 
    
    

>>Perry.  Bob insists that the Dead and Stones HATE each other (the Dead are 
>>jealous cuz the Stones are superstars...blah blah blah) and that the Stones ha
>>NEVER done ANY Dead songs.  That I know is wrong. Right?  Help me on this babe
>>I'm ready to strangle Bob!  All of a sudden he's arguing left and right about 
>the Dead vs Stones and it's driving me NUTS!  He thinks he knows EVERYTHING 
>>there is to know about the Stones. HA!  doubtful!   So what do you think?

I think that Bob needs to get a life.

We've got bozos on the campaign trail, abortion pill debates, an economy going
down the drain, and mega problems in our inner cities, and this guy is ranting
and raving about whether or not the Dead and the Stones are rivals?  Gimme a break!

tms

 Re -1



  What he said....






 Jum

                 <<< Note 272.2 by DEDHED::Spine "Tom Spine" >>>
>I think that Bob needs to get a life.

I resemble that! :)
we got bozos on the bus too!

you'd make a dead man WHAT????

in that stranglehold....
bob

    The Stones don't do many covers of modern-day rock bands (do they do
    any at all?)  Mostly just old blues or r&b.  So I suppose one could
    assume they hate Genesis too since they don't do any Genesis covers.
    
    In the mid-60's they used to say the Stones and the Beatles were
    rivals.  The band members got a kick out of it since they were really
    friends and had mutual respect for each other.
    
    Scott
    

    Okay, so the Stones and the Dead _hate_ each other and the Stones never
    do (done) any Dead songs.  Well, how do the Stones feel about the Dead
    doing their songs?  Do they just kind of have a mutual respect for each
    after all this time (I would think so).  
    
    Well, Bob is getting a life, but not for long if he doesn't see the
    light soon!  His newest crack was the Stones are the all-time greatest band
    and the other is not. If ya want commercially, sure, their in it for
    their OWN personal gain, whereas the Dead really had no intention of
    just themselves, but moreso for the people who followed them.  But the
    Dead now are just as hot, if not hotter, as when they began.  Where
    are the Stones?  How many of the Stones are original?  Do the stones
    have a "family" like the Dead?  Sorry, but IMHO the Dead are legendary
    beyond any other band and in my mind are the all-time greatest! TYVM!
    
    -roche

    Well Gees folks. I didn't mean to go gettin' anybodies blood pressure
    all outta wack. Relax. Kick your feet up. Pop a cold one.
    
    Does anyone have even a WAG on how many concerts the Dead has given
    over the years? Gotta be a lot.
    
    Gene a_hard_core_stones_fan_to

    billions and billions... oh wait!  .. that's stars, isn't it... :-)

 Well, I'm sure the calculators are clacking away trying to get to the exact
number, but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say ~2200 or so.



Of course, if one were to buy a Deadbase dammit, one could arrive at the 
exact number :-)




Jum who will probably go home tonight and figure it out

>Jum who will probably go home tonight and figure it out
    
    :-)
    Life getting a little dull there, buddy? 

 Well, I wouldn't say that, but it'll give me something to do while I'm not
watching TV :-)





Jum

    We're not supposed to watch tv bmember?

 While I'm NOT watching tv   :-)






 Jum

    Everyone has their own opinion as to which band is the greatest ever.
    Certainly doesn't make one less worthy if they have their ideas, as
    long as they respect the opinions of others.  I certainly wouldn't hate
    someone for life if they thought band A was the greatest and I thought
    band B was the greatest.
    
    The Stones have most of their original members - all but Ron Wood, who
    replaced Mick Taylor who replaced Brian Jones. Also Ian Stewart died a
    few years ago, even though he wasn't an official member (I think he
    started with them when it was Brian's band) he sure added lots in his
    boogie woogie piano.
    
    BTW, picked up the hardcover version of Bill Wyman's autobiography
    during lunch for only $4.98.  Covers up to about the time Brian Jones
    left the band.  Good appendices with a listing of all their records (up
    to 1969 - Let It Bleed was their 14th US album, so count from there to
    get the current total) and live shows.
    
    BTW, it's common knowledge that on the night they recorded "Get Yer
    Ya-Yas Out" the were *the greatest rock & roll band*  :-)
    
    Scott
    

    Its all a matter of opinion,...
    
    The greatest band is whatever you think it is,...
    
    							/
    

    I agree with .14, everyone has their right to their OWN opinion,
    otherwise, geez, I'd hate know what people think when I get on my Dead
    spill.  (actually, i wonder anyways, my mom's finally given me up for
    weird, strange and a free-spirited individual! ;^)
    
    I find it facinating how many Dead Heads consider the Stones as one of
    their favorite bands, and the two bands don't even get along.
    
    -roche
    
    

    Curious.  Could a' been Altamonte left a really bad feeling amongst
    them.
    
    I have a hard time identifying 'the best band ever'...I mean, I'll
    start the day listening to David Bromberg playing bluegrass, some Old
    and In the Way (I can identify with that), some really hard-edged Phish
    (I'd really like to see them with Santana - may be able to now that my
    project is delaying my trip to Tampa), and finish up with John Gorka or
    Christine Lavin.  These people play in different dimensions - it's hard
    for me to draw lines of comparison.
    
    Of course, I do abide by the Universal Definitive Knowledge (UDK) of
    the T-shirt saying: "Rap is Crap"....arr arr...but I've even relaxed my
    stuffiness about that genre: I know longer stick my fingers in my ears
    while turning green with wave after wave of nausea.
    
    Different strokes...
    
    tim

>    and the two bands don't even get along.

Did some of the band members from either band say they don't get along
with members from the other band??  Or is this a product of someone's
wild imagination??  I can't imagine the Dead would be envious of the
Stones for their "superstardom".  The Dead was the top-seller in concert
$$$ last year, weren't they (correct me if I'm wrong)??  Why should they
care??  I mean, I just can't imagine Garcia sitting around and grumbling,
"Well, that Jagger did it again, why can't pout like that so teeny-boppers
would kiss my feet?  Grumble, grumble!!"  ;-)

peace,
t!ng

>>wild imagination??  I can't imagine the Dead would be envious of the
>>Stones for their "superstardom".  The Dead was the top-seller in concert
>>$$$ last year, weren't they (correct me if I'm wrong)??  Why should they
>care??  I mean, I just can't imagine Garcia sitting around and grumbling,
>>"Well, that Jagger did it again, why can't pout like that so teeny-boppers
>>would kiss my feet?  Grumble, grumble!!"  ;-)

I can't imagine Jerry getting hung up on this stuff, but I can imagine 
Bobby doing this and Mick on the alter side -- the ol' "rock star" egos...
I just don't see their personalities meshing very well.

Also, as mentioned earlier, maybe Altamont has left a bad taste between the
bands that has lingered all these years.... 


Glenn 

All in all...


Who Cares and why does it matter?

Geoff

    I'm with you, Geoff. :-)

But...

Does Rod Stewart hate the Rolling Stones?

I mean, Mick stole his guitar player and all...

Dave

Just to add a little info re: Altamont, the Stones hired the Hell's Angels to
do security for the gig, on the suggestion of Jerry Garcia.  However, I just
happened to read an article last night that mentioned that the Stones had used
the London Hell's Angels for security during their free concert in England five
months prior to Altamont.

Altamont may have left bad memories, but it wasn't Jerry's fault things got out
of hand.  But this might be why people think the 2 bands don't get along. 
Personally, I haven't the slightest idea whether they get along or not, and if
not, why.

adam

    Re:272.23
    
    It was my understanding that Jagger had hired the L.A. chapter
    of the Hell's Angels to do the security. That didn't wear very 
    well with the Oakland chapter, (Altamont is only a few miles 
    away from Oakland b.t.w.).
    
    Also... It didn't help matters when Mick kept 60,000+ people 
    waiting out in the hot sun for hours and hours with virtually
    no facilities. Apparently he felt that his mascara would be much 
    more effective under the stage lights after nightfall. 
    
    Scotty-who heard this from someone who was there so you Mick fans 
           don't shoot the messenger

 As I recall the Altamont thing was held late fall, early winter and it was 
 not exactly hot sun time...





 Jum who also wonders why it really matters

    There is a lot of conjecture and misinformation floating around in this
    note and floating around in general.
    
    Some of the boys were pretty pissed after Altamont,.. but that was a
    long time ago. They've all mellowed considerably since those days. I
    don't think the Dead would be playing songs like "The Last Time" today
    if they really held a grudge. Froma ll acounts that I have read, Mick
    did kind of screw things up that day,.. but whats one bad scene? One
    bad scene does not define a relationship... and I don't think either
    band really cares to remember that day.
    
    Yes,... its true,, the Stones never covered a dead tune,.. ,,.. so
    what?
    
    I think I'm with the "Who cares" crowd at this point. Altamont is
    nothing more than acnient history at this point.
    
    								/Soko
    

 Now that I think about it I do recall reading something where Jerry had a
negative comment on the Stones..somebody mentioned something to him about their
(then) recent tour of the US..he said, "yeah, they're good..but you'd think with
all that money they make, they'd get a better soundn system".





Jum

    I also remember Jerry commenting on the album Steel Wheels, saying that 
    it was excellent.  It might have been Rolling Stone Mag.??
    
    :-)
    Scott g  

    RE: .26
    
    I heard it was a hot day... not uncommon for that country in the fall..
    and definately aggravated by the lack of facilities i.e. water and 
    toilets.
    
    RE: .27
    
    "one bad scene" (Mick's pompous and uncaring state) may have been
    a major contributor the flared tempers, violence, and death.    
    
    M.H.O.'s have nothing to do with the "Dead vs. Stones" stuff. I 
    don't even think anything like that exists outside of this note. 
    I'm merely sharing what my understanding of Altamont is (via my
    brothers attendance, and what he related to me).

RE:       <<< Note 272.30 by BSS::SGOHSLER "Dancing in the Dragon's Jaws" >>>
                     -< A bad day for bones and stones... >-

       
   > I heard it was a hot day... not uncommon for that country in the fall..
   > and definately aggravated by the lack of facilities i.e. water and 
   > toilets.
    
    

  Hmmm..I lived in the area at the time and seem to recall it being cool...but,
  no big deal..true it can be real nice there in the fall.  I loved going to
  a 49ers game last Novemeber in a T shirt :-)




 Jum

    -< A bad day for bones and stones...  >-
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I LOVE IT *8^))))
    
    -rochelle

    
    	I agree with Jum on the about 2200. Iknow that the May 3, 1991
    shows was 2010, as I have a Jeff Loomis sticker that tells me that....
    
    

 Hmmm...I was gonna go home and figure that out a couple weeks ago, but I
guess I got sidetracked :-/




Jum

    
    From what I understand, "New Speedway Boogie" is the Dead's statement
    about Altamount.  "Jack" is Mick Jagger I think.....
    
    I read that back then the Dead wanted to show up the Stones after
    Altamount by simply blowing them off the stage, but didn't get the
    opportunity to play at the same place on the same day as the Stones.
    
    You know, there has always been a rumor or "legend" that the Stones and
    the Dead never got a long......just because someone asked about it,
    doesn't really justify saying "who cares?!?!?" like so many have in
    previous notes.  There are a lot of unimportant subjects covered in this
    notesfile, and this is just another one.  Perhaps someone wanted to
    know more about this and really wanted to find out if anyone else knew
    more about it.
    
    Hogan

    >> You know, there has always been a rumor or "legend" that the Stones and
    >> the Dead never got a long......just because someone asked about it,
    >> doesn't really justify saying "who cares?!?!?" like so many have in
    >> previous notes.  There are a lot of unimportant subjects covered in this
    >> notesfile, and this is just another one.  Perhaps someone wanted to
    >> know more about this and really wanted to find out if anyone else knew
    >> more about it.
    
    Not to mention the fact that Gene (the base noter) hasn't been back in
    here since entering this note.
    
    Mebbe he decided we weren't all that friendly after all ... :^(
    
    ... Bobbb
    

Hmmmm...interesting point, gentlemen...




Maybe it hit some of us in kinda the wrong way with all the other hubub going
on around the company, country, world etc...



sorry if I offended anyone..





Jum

All right Hogan!  Nice soap-boxage, dude!

Wow, put a wedding ring onna nice, shy, unassuming guy and lookie what 
happens...

:-)   :-)   :-)

    
    >>Maybe it hit some of us in kinda the wrong way with all the other
    hubub going
    
    I think you're right Jim.....this base note was entered while a lot of
    hot stuff was being discussed elsewhere.....I certainly wasn't
    offended, but I noticed a trend in that string of notes.....
    
    BTW, all I know about this subject is what I've heard by word of mouth
    and in one book that isn't all that credible "The Dead", by Hank
    Harrison.  It has always interested me personally, mostly because I
    have never gotten the facts on it.  But one thing that seems pretty
    clear is that Mick Jagger was blatantly a VERY unkind person that day
    by making the crowd wait for hours, all because he didn't think
    he'd look good in daylight.
    
    Hogan

    
    re .38
    
     :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan

    Mick wouldn't look good with a bag on his head...no matter what time of
    day !
         rfb

    I guess I should also apologize..
    
    If I offended anyone,... I'm sorry,.. please come back and note with us
    again,... the /police (where have those guys been anyway) should have
    busted me earlier for this one....
    
    Just the same,... I don't think there is any account by any one of the 
    band memebers from either band that said anything to the effect that
    they were "rivals" or "pissed at each other" or anything like that.
    I put zero value on what Hank whatshisname wrote in his book because
    it was his interpretation. When Jerry or Bob or Mick can be quoted
    then I will believe there is a rift between them,.. until then,,..
    my humble opinion is that the fans and some authors and media types
    may have created this whole thing,..
    
    I am open to being corrected if someone can show me the iterview where
    one of the DEA/STones said something... Until then,,, I still say
    "who cares" (but in hopefully a nice enough way not to piss anyone
    off or make them stop noting) beacuse I'm saying "who cares" about
    a myth propogated by people outside the bands involved. If it turns
    out that there really is something there between the bands,.. then
    I wouldn't say "who cares"....
    
    But then again,... who cares what I say anyway?!?!? :-)
    
    Anyway,.. my apologies to anyone I may have offended here. Thanks to
    Hogan that respectable married type of guy that he is for straightening
    us all out...
    
    							/Soko
    

    Hey folks...
    
    I don't think Gene (base noter) abandoned - i hope.  He is on vacation 
    for awile.  Hopefully after he gets back and gets caught up with other 
    things we will see him back here.
    
    :-) 
    Scott g

    I threw out my copy of "The Dead" years ago, after concluding that it
    was so much garbage. Harrison's claim that Jerry admits that "after 1975
    it was more show business than music" (or some such rot) always bugged
    me.
    
    Buddy Holly used "Hardin" (his middle name) as his songwriting handle,
    because it those days the record companies thought that folks would
    accepts songs written by singers. Norman Petty was Holly's producer.
    
    John

    Wow folks!  No need to go apologizing for anything! 8^)
    
    Gene entered that note for me cuz I was very much interested at the
    time simply cuz of the fact that Bob (my EX-boyfriend now) was so dang
    persistent on putting the Stones ahead of the way I felt for the Dead. 
    A verrrry wrong thing to do with me...and he knew it, and kept at
    it...so, what better way to find out than to ask?  I agreed with ALL of
    you and laughed my arse off when told he needed to get a life! 8^) 
    Well, hopefully he has, cuz it ain't with me no more!  
    
    So, no need for apologizing, but if it matters, apology accepted..;^>
    
    rochelle
    
    p.s. Gene is waaaay on top a mountain somewhere getting back to nature
    and being at one with oneself (lucky him), gazing at the stars.. and I
    bet he's even got the Dead on!.... ;^)

    And Gene's not at all offended either..*8^)
    
    rochelle

I picked up the newly-released-to-videotape "Gimme Shelter", the 
Maisly Brothers documentary on the Stones at Altamont.  At one point Jagger 
is being interviewed by the press on what he thinks the show will be like, 
given the bands that will be playing.  He says something like (in a playful 
tone of voice):

"I mean, its not going to be like The Grateful Aeroplane or The Rolling Dead".

to which everyone in the crowd there laughs.

Most of the first hour's concert footage seems to be from pre-Altamont
shows (Madison Sq. Garden, Oakland?).  I think "Jumpin Jack Flash" and
"Love In Vain" are the same versions as on the live album from that tour
(for which right now I am drawing a complete blank for its title even though
I can see the album cover in my mind argh!).  The "I think I busted a button
on my trousers" comment is also the same.  Unless Jagger said that at every
show just to drive the girls crazy.

Question on the PA the band used back in 1969:
The concert footage seems to show about 10 or 12 Marshal amps/speaker stacks
in a straight line near the back of the stage, arraigned with Charley in the 
middle.  Was that _ALL_?  For a place the size of Madison Sq. Garden?

For Altamont I think additional speakers were on the scaffolding towers 
that had the spotlights.

Josh

Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out?

That album a killer version of Sympathy for the Devil IMO.

re -.1

"Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out"

Yup thats it!  The mule on the cover is wearing around its neck a pair
of binoculars and some strings of jewels, the Stone's homage to Dylan's
"Vision's of Johanna", which has a line:
	Jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule

Josh

> The mule on the cover is wearing around its neck a pair
> of binoculars and some strings of jewels, the Stone's homage to Dylan's
> "Vision's of Johanna", which has a line:
>	Jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule

So what's the correlation between the lyric and the album cover???

:-)

(duh)Dave

>So what's the correlation between the lyric and the album cover???

I dunno.  Well, the mule _is_ wearing the aformentioned jewels and binoculars.
I guess the Stones thought it would would make for an interesting album
cover.  Jagger digs Dylan - just check out the lyrical style on 
"Beggars Banquet", especially "Jigsaw Puzzle".

Josh