Conference rdvax::grateful

All right ... how do I get started making my own beer, cheap?

- DaveWithoutMuch$$$

    not to be a stick in the mud but there is a notes conf. on beer making,
    don't know what its call but there is one......
    
    Chris MOded out for a sec....

    
    DATABS::HOMEBREW is the homebrew notes file.
    
    A starter homebrewing kit cost about $50, then there's ingredients and
    a few other items that you should have.  But, lots of information
    exists in the HOMEBREW notes that you'll find useful.....there's this
    guy in there called 'deadhead', he seems to be pretty knowledgable
    about it :^)
    
    Hogan

Thanks, I'll check out the homebrew notesfile.

Just so .1 doesn't seem like a TOTALLY idiotic/purposeless note ... mebbe youse
guys could relate some helpful hints or amusing anecdotes concerning 
homebrewing ... throw in a reference to Mickey every now and then to keep
it relevant ....

- DaveMeister

    I'd suggest you watch/help someone else make a batch first, then decide
    if you want to invest in all the stuff.  I lucked out buying the whole
    setup real cheap, and reading through most of the homebrew notes before
    I started was a big help.  There's a store in Londonderry called
    Jasper's that sells brewing stuff and will answer lots of questions.
    Also there's a homebrew digest available through the net (where I got
    the Guinness info), but it's only in digest form.
    
    If you want to get good equipment it may cost more than $50, but you
    don't have to buy everything at once.
    
    For starters, you'll need at least 2 cases of cappable (not screwtop)
    bottles. The best deal I've found is to buy cases of empty bar bottles
    from the Bud distributor in Nashua. Or you can get them in Mass from
    the redemption centers (maybe you'll be lucky and get Grolsch bottles),
    or you could always buy beer in good bottles and empty them yourself.
    
    Watch out for that deadhead guy in the homebrew notes, his techniques
    are rather crude. ;-) (BTW, do you still have those beer bombs in the
    attic?)
    
    Scott
    

    	I just wanted to not make this a how to brew beer note, but we can
    sure talk about how to pour it, where to find some tasty brew on tap
    or even a taste party announcement. 
    
    Chris

    Homebrewers are a fine breed... the band i play in happened upon >THE<
    homebrewers convention which this year was at the convention center on
    elm street in manchester, nh.  i heard the next one is in hawaii.
    
    anyway... we were playing on the street on a thursday night when we
    were approached by some of the homebrew convention organizers.  they
    asked us to come play (with no Wall of Sound -- not even a beat up amp,
    come to think of it my fingers were bleeding when were finished...) and
    we could open up the case to see what we could get.  being bluegrass
    types we cranked thru all the traditional drinking songs we knew and
    then some.  after every song (as we stopped to wipe the blood off our
    fingers) someone else, or a few someone elses would bring us a whole
    tray of their very own, unique, sometimes corn fed homebrew.  amazing,
    amazing brews out their in homebrew land.  
    
    there was a beer bottle label contest as well.  some of the labels were
    very clever.  there was a grateful oriented beer whose name escapes me,
    and something called Bosom Beer.  remember this was before the clarence
    hearings... 
    
    if any of you homebrewers opt to provide "samples", i think i know
    where i could find a band... 
    
    
    b.

    I have some contaminated brews I keep around for the novelty...
    It was origianlly called "sweet stuff"...but has been renamed "geyser".
    It's TOTALLY undrinkable, but I love to set one in the sink and say
    "watch this!!!" then crack the cap, take one step back and watch this
    thing shoot a brown colored eruption just like Ole Faithful. When it's
    done, all the beer is gone out of the bottle and it's time for
    sterilization!!! 
                     rude, crude homebrewer rfb (deadhead)

    BTW, anyone that wants to check out some crude (and cheap) brewing 
    methods, let me know!!! I love sharing the gospel!
                                   rfb

re:                    <<< Note 212.8 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>

>   thing shoot a brown colored eruption just like Ole Faithful. When it's
>   done, all the beer is gone out of the bottle and it's time for
>   sterilization!!! 

    Gee, you never talk about your bad brews in homebrew, how come?
    Anyways, I think sterilization is a cruel punishment for making a bad
    batch of beer. :-)

    Don

    Long ago we used to make beer too.  One night my husband was away and
    the kids and I were asleep and suddenly we heard a loud BANG... then
    another... then another.. then another..  by then the kids were 
    in my room and I was scared to death... until I realized it was coming
    from the basement... 
    ...yep... you guessed it... we lost a whole lot out of that particular
    batch.. and ended up with a very wet basement.

    I think there's a  horror story topic in homebrew that I've entered
    a few notes in......I always seem to screw up a beer in summer, to damn
    hot!
    
    re: sterilization...%^) i've already had a vaxs %^)
                                                       rfb

>        <<< Note 212.10 by FSDEV::DHENRY "Make good money, $5 a day" >>>
>                    -< Make the punishment fit the crime! >-
>
>    Anyways, I think sterilization is a cruel punishment for making a bad
>    batch of beer. :-)
    
    Ha!  Yea, I'd say just make 'em do without it for a few months.  Beer,
    that is ;-)
    
    tim
    

    
    
    
    
    My my my how we have digressed, have you(se) all been partaking of the 
    scent of that homebrew, note I did not say drink. This is supposed to
    be a topic on GRATEbeers, not horror stories of homebrewing experiments
    gone bad. 
    
       I know a couple of place that serve really (excellent) grate beer,
     Doyle's for one, in Jamaica Plain. It s a bit of a pain to get to, but
    well worth the pain. (pain is good, in this case) There are more than
    two dozen beers from all over the world - mostly Ireland, England, 
    Scotland, and THE USA. 
    
      Another place I know of, but forget the name of, is on Brighton Ave
    in - you guessed it - Brighton, MA.  Right down the street from the
    old Riley's Roast Beast, I mean Beef, place. They have an equally
    impressive assortment of equally fine ales, and beers, and stouts, and
    porters, and, and, and.....A few of these is enough,
    
    
    later days,
    
     stu
     
    
    

.9 

I've been sort of looking for a professor to learn this particular art. 
I've heard it's best to have someone advise on startup materials and to 
walk you through a brewing. 

:-Chuck_a_willing_and_eager_student ;-)

re:                   <<< Note 212.14 by ISLNDS::GILMORE >>>

>    well worth the pain. (pain is good, in this case) There are more than

    Is there a time when pain isn't good?  ;-)

re:            <<< Note 212.15 by COOKIE::FREIWALD "Teach Peace!" >>>

>  ...walkthrough...

    One thing that impressed me most about homebrewing was how darned
    simple it is.  I never talked to anyone before I did my first batch,
    yet it turned out to be some of the best beer I've ever had!  If you
    can wash dishes, and run a stove, you can brew.  I'll admit, though,
    that I am the type who likes to jump in with both feet (not into a
    sterile beer wort, though!)

    Still, if you'd like to have somebody help ya out, I'm sure somebody
    either here or in HOMEBREW would be happy to help.  Do you live around
    Nashua?  I've never won any contests, or anything, but I haven't keeled
    over from quaffing a pint or two of my own stuff, either.  I'll help ya
    out if you'd like.

    Don

 Welp, I've been bitten by the homebrew curiousity bug..as soon as I get 
someother stuff done, I wanna give it a try..



And I can wash dishes.  Just don't do it very often :^)




Jim

    Hey Now Chuck...give me a call at dtn 523-2269 or at home 633-9743 or
    on the tube CLOSUS::barnes and we'll make a batch up. 
    
    I like the "if you can wash dishes" analogy...mine's "if you can boil
    water, you can make beer" (don't quote this without crediting the
    orignatyor...ME!  %^)  )
    
                            rfb

Hey, I heard someone offer a lesson!  I LIVE in the sacred city of Nashua!
Jim lives nearby.  We'll be over tonight.  Make sure you have the refrigerator
well-stocked.  Can I make a long-distance phone call?

;^)

- The Dave Who Will Not Leave

 Yeah, and bring your 5 string guitar :^)

Rub it in, O Evil Dude!

Obligatory beer comment: Do real men put slices of lime in their beers?

    Well, come on over anytime (well, almost anytime) for a homebrew!  If
    you dare drink it, I'll serve it.  I could also make some high fiber
    vegetative snacks. :-)

    Do real men put slices of lime in their beers?  The last guy
    that put a lime in some of my "Toad of Darkness" stout freaked when the
    beer seemed to suck the lime down into its blackness, ne'er to be seen
    again.  This stuff'll put hair on your chest, just ask my wife! :-)

    Don

    I offer Colo brewing lessons anytime, and since it's against the law to
    take money for my services, I let the learner buy all the ingrediants,
    we use my equipment and house and stove, and split the 2 resulting
    cases. I don't have many takers on this because it seems they can't
    remember what they learned the day after.... actually it's a ploy on my
    part, the more "come-backs" I have, the more I get to split two
    cases....
             rfb

    Welp, I spotted some Hope beer at the packy Friday night.  It's still
    not made in RI; made in Pennsylvania.  It still brags that it's a RI
    beer.  Strange. Why bother?  I bought Molson.
    
    dave

    
    
    >>                              -< As weird as RI >-
    
    In any case, its better than Molson.......just one beer snob's opinion
    :^)
    
    But, if you're gonna get beer from that category (microbrews), there
    are better ones than Hope out there.
    
    Dave

	re: .-2 Dave Irons

	Sam Adams, the "Boston Beer", was made and still is to some
	extent in Pennsylvania somewhere.   However, some of the brewing
	is now occurring at the new brewery in Hyde Park/Jamaica Plain.

	I'd say one reason was that they wanted to get the beer out and
	on the market before they had the $ and location for a local
	brewery.   Now that they do, it's being brewed locally.  

	Probably the same deal with Hope.

	Even the big breweries contract out.   For example, Guinness in
	Canada is made at the Labatt's brewery!

	Ken

re: .26 Sam Adams...

Last I heard, Sam Adams Lager is still brewed in PA.  However, the
Sam Adams Boston Ale *is* brewed in the Hub of the Universe!

	-td

    
    I got a case of Sam Adams Lager a few weeks back, and one of the
    bottles had an "Iron City" cap on it :^)
    
    Hogan

    Yup, Iron City makes Sam Adams lager. There's another brewery in New
    York that makes some of their other brews. They also have contract
    brewers in other parts of the US to make Sam Adams for local markets.
    They  believe the best way to deliver fresh beer is to make it locally.
    
    There's a great little store in Manchester (the North End Superette on
    Elm Street) that has hundreds of beers. Good place to get samples of
    strange brews.
    
    Scott
    

    
    
    Thanks for the info, Scott......didn't know that they are brewing in
    various locations to make "local" deliveries, so to speak.
    
    I personally prefer the Sama Adams Boston Ale to the Sam Adams lager.
    The Octoberfest is pretty good, too, though it doesn't compare to the
    real Octoberfest brews from Germany, like Spaten.  I see that the Sam
    Adams winter beer is out now, is this a first?  Will have to try it....
    
    Dave

re:                      <<< Note 212.30 by AWECIM::RUSSO >>>

    I agree with you about SA Octoberfest.  It's ok but not a real 
    German type of Octoberfest like Spaten or Ayinger.    Same thing
    goes for the Harpoon Octoberfest: ok but not a real German style.
    The SA Double Bock is also too light for a dopplebock.

    The SA Winter Lager I think you'll like though.  Much heartier and
    stronger than the others.  It came out last winter...

    I won a case of Spaten (1/2 Optimator/Dark, 1/2 Octoberfest) by correctly	
    predicting "a girl!" and winning a bet with my brother in law, who 
    predicted "boy".  Tastes *much* better when it's free ;-) 

    Oh, the Murphy's Stout at O'Connors was *great*!   Fresher and better 
    than the Guinness last friday... yup, better than the quickly-poured and
    not as fresh as I'd like Guinness *-)   I was really impressed and
    would like to go back for more ;-)

    Ken

RE:  Sam Adams brewed where?

Over the weekend I had some Sam Adams wheat and Octoberfest.  Both 
bottles said something like, "brewed in P'burg PA and Boston" (just
like you all were saying...and also they said on the package that
you should drink the Sam Adams before it's 6 weeks old).

re:  Superette in Manch 
yeah they got a great selection (great for NH anyhow!).

and Scott seems to have as much a selection as they do :) :) :)

slurp!
bob

    Seems to answer the obvious question which hit me a while back while
    sampling a Portland lager. I thought, Portland, ME? Portland, OR? nope,
    brewed in Wisconsin. Makes sense with the lighthouse on the label?
    
    jeff

    
    
    RE Ken Hannan
    
    I've never cared for the SA Double Bock, and I REALLY *LOVE* Ayinger's
    Celebrator Double Bock.  Celebrator is just much more smooth and
    creamy, where the SA seemed not so smooth.....give 'em credit for
    trying, though! :^)
    
    Spaten Optimator seems somewhere in between a dark beer and a double
    bock.....really heavy for a regular dark beer, yet not quite heavy
    as Celebrator.  I guess because of the name (all double bocks end with
    "tor") its a double bock.  Still GRATE brew, though....
    
    When I brew my first double bock, I'm gonna call it "Inebriator"  :^)
    
    Hogan
    

re:                      <<< Note 212.34 by AWECIM::RUSSO >>>

>    I've never cared for the SA Double Bock, and I REALLY *LOVE* Ayinger's
>    Celebrator Double Bock.  Celebrator is just much more smooth and

	Ayinger makes Celebrator ?   I didn't know that...  Ever have
	Ayinger Heller Bock ?   (Heller => Light)  A light colored
	bock that is incredibly delicious (and strong *-)

>    Spaten Optimator seems somewhere in between a dark beer and a double
>    bock.....really heavy for a regular dark beer, yet not quite heavy
>    as Celebrator.  I guess because of the name (all double bocks end with
>    "tor") its a double bock.  Still GRATE brew, though....

	I've been trying to figure out the difference between Spaten's
	"Special Dark Beer/Optimator" [what the call it now] and 
	"Dopplebock" [what I think they used to label it as] and I think
	they are one and the same.  It's one of my alltime favorite brews.
	"all double bocks end with 'tor'" seems to verify it.

	Ken

    
    
    I read in a beer book :^) that Spaten has Spaten Export Dark and Spaten
    Special Dark/Optimator, but the Export Dark is less common.
    
    Haven't tried Heller Bock, but I'll keep my eye open for it, I really
    like the Ayinger beers, though they are very expensive.  A beer that I
    found and really really really liked last summer was Hacker Pschorr's
    Maibock beer.  Never found it this year, however.
    
    Hogan
    
    PS: Glad you liked the Murphy's!! :^)

>     I read in a beer book :^) that Spaten has Spaten Export Dark and Spaten
>     Special Dark/Optimator, but the Export Dark is less common.
	
	Did the book say anything about Spaten Dark/Optimator being
	the dopplebock ?  I remember it actually saying "dopplebock"
	on the packaging a few years ago, I think ;-)

	Also, that Ayinger hellerbock was officially called "Ayinger Maibock". 
	Maybe hellerbock is a more generic term ?

	Ken

    
    >>        Did the book say anything about Spaten Dark/Optimator being
    >>        the dopplebock ?  I remember it actually saying "dopplebock"
    >>        on the packaging a few years ago, I think ;-)
    
    Yep, it said it was a dopplebock, but is sort of light for a
    dopplebock.  It *IS* strong beer, though!!  I had a couple last week,
    and really felt the first one (second one too! :^).
    
    I bottled my first solo batch of beer last night, a dark beer.  It
    seems like it will be pretty good.....not quite up to the standards of
    the above-mentioned brew, however....:^)  I think I'll go for another
    dark beer, now that I have learned a couple of lessons with this first
    batch.
    
    Hogan

    Re: last few.
    
    I'm totally lost.
    
    tim
    

    well drink up then Shriner!!!
    
    Congrats Dave Russo on completing yer first solo batch. Keep it up!
                                                                       rfb

    My father is a Shriner.

    so's my father-in-law Dave...just a figure of speech from a long time
    ago, stolen from a drunkin friend at a drinking party, no offense
    intended
            rfb

    Oh, I wasn't by no means!  Just trying to digress, ya know.  It seems
    second nature whilst participating in the notesfle.
    
    dave

re                      <<< Note 212.42 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>

>    so's my father-in-law Dave...just a figure of speech from a long time

Your father-in-law's named Dave?!?  All right!

What kind of beer does he drink?

    
    RE                       <<< Note 212.40 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>
    
    >>Congrats Dave Russo on completing yer first solo batch. Keep it up!
    
    Hey, thanks!!!  Probably bottling my Stout (which I'll call Imalspay
    Stout :^) tomorrow night, so there is going to be an rather large
    quantity of brew to drink in about 10 days! %^)
    
    Hogan

    I wouldn't have a father in law named dave!!!! %^)
    He drinks ole FrothingSlosh
                               rfb

    that only fair...  he probably wouldn't have a son in law named
    rfb!  :^) :^) :^)
    
    				da ve

    RE: a son in law named rfb
    
    believe me, dad in law wasn't real sure about it in the beginning!!!
    damn longhaired hippy sleeping with HIS daughter!!!!! we get along
    grate now, and have fer years (but his names still not dave!!!)
                                                          rfb

    Funny,
    
    The Shriners World headquarters is right next door to our Tampa office. 
    Nice people.  A little tight with the purse strings (they almost bought
    a BIG network from us, but decided to spend it on hospitals instead),
    but very nice.
    
    But, I digress.  Back to the beer....
    
    tim
    

                        <<< Note 212.46 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>
>    He drinks ole FrothingSlosh
>                               rfb

hey rfb,

is that the "pale stale ale"????  I think I've had this before ....

let's talk about some middle of the road every day beers!  all this
other talk is fattening me right up! :)

anybody like BUD,  or how bout Mickey's Big Mouth - the original skunk!
:)
bob who has to steer clear of any decent beer to maintain my physique
but that's a hard one to do!  

re the place in Brighton

The place in Brighton is called Sunset Grille.  I was just there over the 
weekend.  They had 38 beers on tap and well over 100 different bottled beers 
from around the world.  I had a Sam Adams special brew for the holidays that
was a Belgian style cranberry ale.  Hmm, it was really yummy!  They also have
foot, 1/2 yards, and yards of beer.

re dopplebock

The best double bock I ever had was brewed by a guy who used to work in my 
group.  He used to read and contribute to the homebrew notes conference all the
time a couple of years ago and I believe he got many tips from that crazy 
deadhead ;^) (at least he was always mentioning this guy since he knew I read
this file).  He now lives in Munich and says the wheat beer is unbelievable.

chuck

    
>He now lives in Munich and says the wheat beer is unbelievable.
    
    dunkelweitzen! ;-)

    re: Ole frothingslosh = pale stale ale....yep that's the one...grate
    bod on Miss Frothingslosh ;^)    I used top have an empty can around
    some where...
                 rfb
    

    Chuck ,
    what was yer homebrewers friends name???
       rfb

    re: Frothingslosh
    
    Indeed, not only the pale stale ale, but the pale stale ale with the
    foam on the bottom!
    
    I've got a full can of that that will stay full!
    
    Treemon

RE rfb

His name is Jim Egerton and I would like to add that me brewed some OUTSTANDING
brews.  He left me with all of his brewing equipment, bottles, and recipes when
he left (he's coming back in 3 years).  That was in May and I still haven't
gotten around to giving it a try ;^|  I did order some ingredients though :^)

chuck

Oops, that was HE brewed some OUTSTANDING brews!

chuck

Chuck, that Jim Egerton dude, do you know where he went to college? 

Yeah, and Chuck, isn't he the guy who invented sonar???

	:-)

re JC

Jim went to the University of Hartford.  I think he got out in '84 or '85.

chuck

re                     <<< Note 212.60 by CAMONE::HURLBURT >>>
                               -< U of Hartford >-

>Jim went to the University of Hartford.  I think he got out in '84 or '85.

That is my Alma Mater also, although I rarely admit it in public!  I do 
remember him vaguely;  I got out in '87.  '85 sounds about right for him.

    
    
    My dark beer **SUCKS**!!!! :^(
    
    But I figured that it would......it tasted lousy when I bottled it. 
    The Imalspay Stout tasted like a good stout when I bottled it, I'll be
    waiting patiently on it.
    
    Hogan brewing another stout tonight

RE: Homebrew

The BAD news..

This past weekend marked my first attempt at homebrew... It was a disaster..
Friday night - Got all the cooking utensils and ingredients together,
sterilized everything, Cooked the brew, let it coll a little, added it to the
carboy (i.e. big glass bottle) and CRACK!!!! My carboy broke :^( 

The GOOD news..

This past weekend also marked my second attempt at homebrew... Back on the
horse theory... Saturday afternoon I went out and got another carboy (Thanks
Randy!), got more ingredients, went home, re-sterilized everything, and as of
this morning the carboy is still burping!!!  So far so good! Now the trick is
to accumulate around 25 more Grolsch bottles in the next week!!  8^O  


Glenn

>this morning the carboy is still burping!!!  So far so good! Now the trick is
>to accumulate around 25 more Grolsch bottles in the next week!!  8^O  

Hey Glenn, you buy the Grolsch, send it to me, and I'll send ya back the empty 
bottles, and I'll even do it for free!!  Sound like a good deal to you???  Does
to me too!!!!   8^)  8^)

Scott

>this morning the carboy is still burping!!!  So far so good! Now the trick is
>to accumulate around 25 more Grolsch bottles in the next week!!  8^O  

 

 In the Kappy's Liquor in Revere on rt 1 Northbound they sell empty Grolsch
bottles to Homebrewers for seven cents a piece.

The good news for me is that my father-in-law works there part time, so
when I start brewing he'll get some for me, before they run out! 8-)

And they do run out of the quite fast ;-).

Shawn

    Hogan
    How old is yer stout? It may taste bad simply because it's not
    "finished" in the bottle long enough. If that's NOT the case, try
    cutting back on the additive grains, they may be addding the "off"
    taste to the brew.
                      rfb

    Hey Glenn...
    I laughed my ass off when Patty told me of yer brewing fiasco! (sorry)
    Yer other carbouy arrived yesterday. 
    
    rfb
    
    amazing how knowledgeable Patty is about brewing simply from watching
    me for 3 years, eh?  %^)

    I put my Belgian ale into secondary last night - had a taste and it's
    gonna be delicious. The honey gives it a little kick too.
    Also tasted my unfinished cider. I got the fresh cider from a mon and
    pop orchard, and it's a very delicious blend (Currier Orchards in
    Merrimack), in fact one of the best ciders I've ever had. Added lots of
    honey and spices and it's coming along quite nicely. Gonna be some
    potent stuff when it's done.
    
    If you don't want your carboy to explode, either use plastic, or add
    the hot brew to cool water already in the carboy. If I use glass I do
    it that way and haven't had an accident yet.
    
    If you have more technical questions, you should take them to the
    homebrew notes.
    
    Scott
    
    BTW, if anyone wants to help me with bottling I'll reward you with
    brews. ;-)
    

  ya Randy,  Patty sure was able to answer all the questions I had! I had some
  pretty good neophyte questions!

ie.

  Does Randy dissolve the yeast before adding?  

Or how about...

  When's it suppose start bubbling? - it's not doing anything yet! :^) 



  Cool on the other carbouy - I'll be by to pick it up...

Ya Scott - I did add the hot brew to cold water already in the carboy - I don't
think it was the method as much as it was the madness - you see I tried using a
carboy that I have been using as a change jar for 15+ years - was probably
already well cracked...

>    If you have more technical questions, you should take them to the
>    homebrew notes.

With such an experinced cast of brewmasters here in Grateful??   :^)

Glenn

(only fifteeeen more grolssssh's by.. by nexxxt monday %^)
    

    
    
    rfb,
    
    My Stout was 4 days in the primary, 4 weeks in the secondary, and so
    far has been one week in the bottle.  Gave it my first taste last
    night, and its GRATE!!!!  The "Celebrated" Imalspay Stout :^)  Needs
    more time, though, it'll get better I'm sure.  Really easy recipe, its
    actually the Cushlomachree Stout from Charlie Papazian's book, except I
    used Saaz hops.
    
    My Dark beer was the one that came out lousy......old ingredients,
    mixed up directions (said to boil grains and malt for only 5 minutes),
    and equally mixed up brewing methods (I boiled the grains and the malt
    extract for an hour, didn't remove the grains)......I only made 4
    gallons, as thats what the directions said......then later added
    another gallon when adding to the secondary.....then primed with boiled
    water/corn sugar that really hadn't cooled down enough.  I knew that
    the dark beer was going to be a bust, so I immediately brewed up the
    stout.
    
    I think you're right, the off-taste is from the grains left in the wort
    for the entire boil.
    
    Hogan

    Stout keeps real good too. I have some over a year old and it just
    keeps getting better. However, the lighter beers like my first
    Octoberfest don't taste as good now.
    
    So what's wrong with the homebrew notes? You might find a few of us
    lurking in there occasionally.
    
    Glad to see so many picking up the hobby. Maybe time for a DEChead
    homebrew tasting party in a few months. Those who don't have homebrews
    can bring munchies.
    
    Scott
    

BTW - where is the homebrew notesfile?

    That would be DATABS::HOMEBREW.  Hit KP7 to add it to your notebook.

    Don

    There's also the Homebrew digest. It's a daily digest from the net,
    with lots more traffic than the homebrew notes.  Send a request to:
    
    [email protected]
    (add whatever Decnet stuff you need)
    
    and give them your address and you'll start getting them in a week or
    so. They've put together a recipe book called "Cat's Meow" which
    someone has in postscript form at one of the DEC sites. I may also be
    persuaded to make a copy of mine.
    
    Scott (one step closer to a job)
    

	I know I could probably get this info from that Homebrew conference,
but I don't have time to sift though it now...

	Near the Maynard area, where is the best place to buy homebrew
supplies?  Also, are these stores open on Sunday?

	My father used to make wine (still does occasionally) so I'll be able
to snake some of this 5 gallon bottles and plastic bubbler gadgets.  I would
not mind getting into the homebrew stuff........!!!

	/JC

Hey JC,

FWIW, HOMEBREW Note 2 is entirely deadicated to suppliers and is pretty easy to
scan through since most of the entries have the town and state in the title
line. 

Glenn

    according to my homebrewing friends, the place to go in this area seems
    to be in Upton...  don't know the name though...  Hogan???  do you
    remember?
    
    				da ve

    
    
    The Vineyard in Upton....grate place
    
    123 Glen Avenue, Upton, MA
    508-529-6014 / 800-626-2371
    
    Hogan

    There's a bunch of places you can pick up a free paper called the
    "Yankee Homebrew News" (or something similar). It's a pretty good rag
    considering it's free. Reviews of beer styles, recipes, and lots of
    local ads.
    
    There's some package stores in Mass that sell brewing supplies. Not a
    great selection, and the hops and yeast may not be too fresh unless
    they have a big turnover. May be worth a try if there's nothing local.
    Still, your best bet to get started is to find a local friendly store,
    and read all the homebrew notes.
    
    A good mail order place is Williams Brewing, out of California. Big
    variety at really cheap prices, and I hear their delivery is fast.
    
    Also, pick up a recent issue of "Zymurgy". The latest one is a special
    issue and a little expensive, but you should be able to find the last
    quarterly issue.
    
    Scott
    

	This coming weekend, I might shoot on down to Upton, MA and buy a bunch
of brewing supplies.  I have one of the bubbler things (air-lock?), a 5 gallon
jug, and a siphon.  I can get more jugs and air-locks if needed from my father
(he used to make Vino).

	With those supplies, how much more will I need to get started?  
Approximately how much should I expect to spend ?  I want to get everything
at one shot (because Upton is a distance from me) ... a ballpark figure will
suffice!

	Tnx.

RFB, I still have those brewing instructions that you sent me many months ago.
I have to browse through 'em ...

     	A few years ago I used to read a few newsgroups besides 
     rec.music.gdead. In one of those newsgroups there was a discussion 
     once about the, "Best Beer in the World". I initially replied with 
     a note about W�rtzb�rger, a long time favorite of mine. After a few 
     days of reading that discussion I came to the following conclusion 
     and thought it had a place here.

     All this talk about the best beer in the world has brought me around
to realize some other qualities which we may all be over looking. I read the
line and quickly replied talking about my taste for rich brews and my 
favorite being Wurzburger Dark. But beers can have other qualities besides
taste which may make them in other ways better. 
     There has to be something said for Bud in cans. (Laughter welcome) 
Yes, Bud in cans has some distinct qualities that others lack. For instance 
Bud is the only beer that can taste right in cans, if your going to give
me a can of beer be sure it's Budwiser. Buying beer in cans does cost less
and this can be an advantage when having friend over or helping someone 
rebuild their truck. (I can buy two cases of canned Bud for the price of 
one case of Bass.)
     Also, cans are lighter. What use could this be you might ask. Well,
last year I planned a hiking trip up a small mountain in late February. 
After getting to the cabin I was talking with one of the crew and asked 
about this one person I didn't know. I found out that he had a case of 
bud, without the box, in his backpack. Well, I thought it was ridiculous,
but it did taste good to have a bud after the climb. Imagine the weight if
it had been in bottles. 
     I've also found a great advantage to having Bud in cans in my 
refrigerator at home. I try not to drink for a few days in a row early 
in the week. If I have leftover Bass or Wurzburger or stout, ya' know 
something really tasty, I just can't resist the urge to pop one open and
savor the malt. But, with a few cans of Bud, No problem! They'll stay there
all week. That's another advantage, they'll stay there all week. My roommate
may not have simple wisdom a lot of the time, but he does have taste buds.
With a tasty beer in the 'fridge I feel like I'm best getting to it before 
he does. As I said, the Bud will stay there all week no problem.
     In light of these facts we should reconsider the merits of canned 
Budwiser. The advantages are many and the taste, well, acceptable. So,
next time you're shopping for a beer you won't mind sharing with friends 
don't over look that red, white and blue can, the king of beers; Budwiser.

     Besides, if it wasn't for Budwiser where would you find Clydesdales.

Serious humor
Geoff


     	Since then I have also been enlightened to the merit of sailing 
     with cans. Cans don't break and after you get to know the boat there 
     are places where a can will be self tacking. Just leave the can in 
     the companion way and go do your job, as the boat turns about the can 
     gracefully slides from the old leeward side to the new. This works fine
     on a Benateau, I'm not sure about a J and on my S2 I got holders.
     	Also since the authoring of the merits of Bud in a can I have 
     discovered the merits of the long neck bar bottle. They don't call 
     'em bar bottles for nothing. The long tall bottle is not as quick to 
     spill, allowing wild crazy dancing and bumping into many patrons like 
     dust in Brownian motion and still coming out of it with all the beer 
     you paid for. Try any of those same stunts with a wide mouth, 16 oz. 
     glass of Bass or Guiness. Not only might you bump into a lot of people
     spilling X % of something that shouldn't be wasted like that, but
     you might spill it on a Bud drinker with a big gut and a bad attitude
     who'd go, "Hey!" and knock your arm spilling more of your brew and making
     grunting noises at you all night. 

     	Of course my favorite Bud is made with oat bran :-). Those buds are
     good for the ski slopes.

     Wildcat this Friday! Anyone want to go?
     Geoff

    
    >>My roommate may not have simple wisdom a lot of the time
    
    Hey!!!  When did you write this?!?!?!? ;^)
    
    Dave who was Geoff's roomate last year. :^)
    
    PS: That was pretty funny!!! :^) :^) :^)

RE:         <<< Note 212.82 by MILKWY::SAMPSON "Driven by the wind" >>>

>     	Of course my favorite Bud is made with oat bran :-). Those buds are
>     good for the ski slopes.

Much lighter and lower in calories, too!

Don

    Yah Dave, I thought about that when I entered the note, and you
    certainly have good taste in beer. But I wrote that when I lived in the
    place before there. Saying that he didn't always have simple wisdom was
    the most polite way I could express that I thought he had no common
    sense whatsoever. And like I said, the buds would stay but the good
    stuff wouldn't usually make Tuesday.
    
    It's cold out
    	feels like ski season
    Geoff 

Hey Geoff, how much is Bud payin' ya to say all those wonderful things?

:-)

    
    >>Hey Geoff, how much is Bud payin' ya to say all those wonderful
    things?
    
    I don't know, but when you buy a Bud, thats mostly what you're paying
    for (advertising).
    
    Dave
    

    Note 4667.0                  Home Brewing Equipment                  
    No replies
    MADMAG::BROOKS                                       31 lines  
    3-DEC-1991 11:22
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        
                     Home Brewing Equipment For Sale
        
      *****************************************************************
        
        Complet Home Brew kit which includes the following;
        
        2    Glass Carboys
        1    Bottle Brush
        1    Carboy Brush
        1    Rubber Stopper with Drain Hose
        1    Bench Style Bottle Capper
        2    Fermentation Locks with Rubber Stoppers
        1    Hydrometer
        1    Thermometer
        1    Long Handle Wooden Spoon
        1    Racking Tube with Hose & Lock
        1    Book " The Complete Joy of Home Brewing"
        150  Bottle Caps
        5 lb Corn Sugar
        1    Georgie's Scottish Export Home Brew Kit
        
        
        $ 85.00 Takes it all
        
        Gary
        DTN 223-0382
        Home (508) 897-5676
        OOES::BROOKS
        
        
    
    

    Not to burst your bubble, but a quick calculation in my head sez you
    can get the same stuff brand new from a homebrew store for the same
    price, or less if you get one of their starter kits.  However, other
    than a couple of plastic buckets (one for a primary fermenter, one for
    bottling) it's everything you need.
    
    Scott
    

	re: last couple 

	If the bench-type capper is the one I'm thinking of, they go for
	at least $35.00 last I checked a couple of years ago (at Spags)
	so it might not be *too* bad a deal.   

	FWIW I paid about $50 for my setup, minus the carbouys which I got
	from Belmont Springs.   

	Also, I didn't see a wort kettle listed.   You could use a porcelain	
	lobster type pot.

	Ken

    It's hard really to estimate what it's worth without seeing it.  I've
    heard about the deal at Spags and you can get better deals at brew
    stores. They wanted like $4 for 200 caps. An ok-quality bench capper
    goes for $20 or so. A real good one goes for $35, a super deluxe brass
    capper that also does corks goes for $65
    
    BTW, anyone tried the Harpoon Winter Warmer? I hear it's pretty good.
    
    Scott
    

	Sure, I've tried Harpoon's Winter Warmer.  Good beer but I'm
	not too into beer with cinnamon.   

	Sam Adam's Winter Lager is grreat!   Anyone tried that one ?
	(Drink it at about 50 degrees).
	
	Ken

    You're not burting my bubble, just thought someone might be interested.
    
    Shoulda figured you bunch of beer-brewing snobs would jump all over
    it!!   :^)
    
    dave

>	Sam Adam's Winter Lager is grreat!   Anyone tried that one ?
>	(Drink it at about 50 degrees).
>	Ken

yeah!  That is great stuff!  And pardon me for saying this in here but the 
Coor's winter thing isn't too bad.  

slurp!
bob

    
    
    I REALLY liked Harpoon's Winter Warmer last year, have been looking for
    it this year, but only found last year's bottles at the one store I
    found it in.  Sam Adams Winter Lager is also very good.....it tasted
    close to a bock to me....strong....but I like the cinnamon taste VERY
    much!!!!  I guess last year's batch will do if I can't find it, think
    it would be ok Scott?
    
    Dave                       

The Sam Adams Winter Lager is quite good!  I treated myself to a rack of the
stuff not too long ago.  Actually, I've been drinking quite a bit of Sam Adams
lately to save bottles for my upcoming brewing adventure.

I purchased a whole bunch of brew supplies from the Vineyard in Upton, MA.  I
got lots, and lots of stuff (most things on the previously posted list minus 
air locks and carbouys)... I also got 2 complete brew making kits with malt
(not sugar) ... all for about $79 ...

JC

re: finding Harpoon Winter Warmer

	Austin Liquor in Worcester has what I think is a new shipment
	of Harpoon's Winter Warmer in.   It's sorta near the Greendale
	Mall.    If you need semi-directions lemme know.

	Ken

    JC, better cap an empty Sam Adams bottle and see ifn the cap takes.
    I've never tryed 'em so I don't know. 
                                          rfb

    I've used Sam Adams bottles and there's no problem capping them.
    They're about the same size as bar bottles (bar bottles are bar bottles
    no matter whose label is on them, kinda like they trays at the food
    section in the mall).  The only think to watch out for is British
    bottles, the lip is a little thinner but they still cap if you do it
    right.
    
    Scott, heading to the brew store in a few minutes
    

Well, they're finally done!!!  I've been opening one bottle a day of my first
attempt at homebrewing and last night it sure tasted good! It's an amber ale
that I call "Neophyte Brew II" ("Neophyte Brew I" ended up all over the kitchen
floor after I broke a glass carboy) I was a little concerned after first trying
it at the seven days in the bottle and it tasted really wierd, but after
ten days they sure taste grate!  Second batch - "How Now Brown Brew" - a
brown ale,  is ready to bottle, but I don't have enough bottles yet... Third
Batch - "Dark Democracy" - a dark ale, is still bubbling away!! 

rfb - I'll bring some by for you to critique ;^) - maybe next week...

Glenn

    Congrats Glenn, it sure feels good when you taste one of your brews
    huh?  Check out a local bar or beer distributor for empty bar bottles.
    If you're lucky you might find some place that sells lots of Grolsch
    with the stopper top bottles (which are soon to be illegal in
    California).
    
    If anyone out this way wants some bottles, I have 2 cases of Bud (or
    some A-B product) bottles that I'll give away. They were given to me to
    give to whoever needs them.  They still have the labels on them.
    
    Scott
    

    
    My brother and I bottled our holiday brew this week, and it sure
    smelled good!!!  Good expectations for this dark amber ale.
    
    I also brewed a batch of dark ale last night, hoping to come home to
    some busy yeastie beasties when I get home tonight!
    
    Hogan

So, tell me, how long is the cycle from start to finish?  Like, can you get a
good beer in a month?  Or is it better to let it sit for several weeks?

adam_the_inept_homebrewer

    If you like british style bitter or ale, you can have something
    drinkable in less than a month.  THE book (the Papazian one) has a
    recipe for one that he claims is drinkable in 2 weeks, assuming
    everything goes right and the temperature is right, etc.  If you like
    stouts or spiced beer, it takes longer for the flavor to mellow.
    Lagers, despite their reputation as being light, actually take the
    longest to brew. A good lager must be aged several months at
    refrigerator temperatures. It's actually easier to make a beer that
    tastes like an expensive import than it is to make a Coors/Bud/whatever
    type.  If you don't think you can make beer, I usually tell people if
    they can cook a can of soup, follow a recipe, and keep things clean
    they can make beer.  I haven't been doing it that long myself and made
    only one bad batch, and that was due to an October week where the
    temperature went from the 90s to the 50s in a few days and confused the
    yeast.
    
    Scott
    

	My best beer, a heavy hoppy pilsener style was delicious after
	10 days and got slightly better after that.  It was the best beer 
	I ever brewed.
	
	Some beer I've brewed took months to mellow out.   According to	
	a German woman who ran "Beer and Wine Hobby" out of her house in	
	Melrose, it can take a year in the bottle, which I found to be
	true in most cases.
	
	A lager, which means "to age" in German, is meant to be stored/aged
	at a cold temp for a couple of months or so, resulting in a great beer.
	It was discovered when they stored brew in cold caves and said hey,
	this is even better than before ;-)

	Seems to me that if nothing went wrong with your batch that it
	should be drinkable in a few weeks. 

	Ken (who should really start brewing again someday)

    So, say I went out and bought all the equipment I need and all the
    ingrediants I need to do brewin', how much would you think it cost,
    anyone?
    
    dave

    You can get a package deal on basic equipment, they go for $40 to 45.
    You can get buy without a glass carboy, or you can use a glass carboy
    and get away without a plastic primary.  The kit may come with a cheap
    hand held capper which doesn't work too good.  Invest another $20 in a
    good one.  $10 for Charlie Papazian's book (although the kit may come
    with a small book, this one is the best).  $10 for a beer kit (a can of
    malt plus yeast).  I'd suggest you follow the can's instructions for
    using corn sugar (NOT cane sugar) which they'll also sell you, and
    later batches can be more exotic.  Get overrun caps - they may say
    Pepsi or Orange Crush but they're still new and cheaper than plain
    ones. A little over $1 for a gross.
    
    You'll need a pot big enough to boil at least 2 to 3 gallons of water. 
    The porcelain lobster pots work fine and are pretty cheap.
    
    Bottles - if you live in Mass just go to your liquor store and buy a
    few cases of empties for the deposit.  Get bar bottles if you can,
    they're made for refilling and are much sturdier, although I've had
    good success with Bud Dry fake bar bottles, and even the thin ones like
    Molson work.  Just don't use twist-off bottles, you need special
    equipment to seal them properly.
    
    I made my first all-grain batch this weekend!  Got a couple of buckets
    free from a bakery, drilled a million holes in one and put it inside
    the other to act as a strainer.  Dump hot water over the grains and let
    it sit for a while, then boil it for ages.  I figure the 5-gallon batch
    cost me a little over $6, and I'll get 2 cases from it.  Can't wait to
    taste it!  I'm calling it Pearl Harbor Pale Ale since I made it on the
    7th.  It's not too pale though, I expect it to be a nice medium brown.
    
    Scott
    
    PS - Dave, if you want a list of homebrew suppliers, if you can find a
    copy of "Yankee Homebrew News" they list lots in the area. It's a free
    paper you can find at homebrew stores, brewpubs, and occasional package
    stores. If not, I can mail you a list
    

Hmmm  mmmm mmmm -- my first abtch of home brew is tasting better by the day!!!

Bottled my second batch last night a nice brown ale that tastes pretty good
already! 

re: equipment, ingredients... rough estimates by memory...

Stainless steel pot (14 - 16 qt) --- $25  - K-mart
Stainless steel cooking spoon    ---   3  - K-mart
Bleach                                 2  - K-mart
Glass carboy $11 ea at least 2   ---  22  - rfb, err i mean your local 
                                            water supply - pay deposit don't
                                            return carboy
1.25 OD plastic tube about 3'    ---   3  - local hardware store
airlock for carboy               ---   2  - brew store
syphon kit                       ---   5  - brew store
LARGE funnel                     ---   5  - hardware, auto parts, or brew store

Bottles (I use Grolsh bottles and have spent mega $$$ collecting them, but i
         think in the long I'll like it better in the long run - this way I get
         to eliminate the capping step of brewing -- which by the time I'm done
         bottling, I'm glad I don't have to do.) 

Bottle Caps and Capper will cost you also


Ingredients: (this is what I've been using to start from per rfb's advice..)

Water                            ---  FREE !!!! -- unless you use the bottled
                                           water that comes with your carboy,
1 Can Malt extract               --- $10
1 3 lb Bag DME                   --- $10  - I've used any where from 1 to 3 lbs
                                            per batch 
1 4(?) lb bag corn sugar         --- $ 5  - only use 3 quarters of a cup per
                                            batch 
a couple oz's of hops            --- $ 2  - about $1/oz for pellets, not sure
                                            about leafs. 
Ale Yeast                        --- $ 2  - 2 pkgs per batch, about $1/pkg


I think that's it....

Oh Yeah,

Like Scott said get Charlie's book - I got "The NEW Complete Joy of
Homebrewing" which was something around $11. He originated the now infamous
line -  "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" -- advice which I've found to be
quite beneficial as a beginner and often wondering if I'm doing things
correctly...

As a beginner myself, I kind of like the simplicity of NOT doing the "all
grain" stuff just yet and would recommend not trying this to start wit - also
from what I've read in the Homebrew notesfiles - would recommend NOT using the
instructions that are on the can of Malt Extract (some even tell you that
you don't need to boil the water!)- I like the procedure rfb has recommended to
me which also resulted in my first successful batch! - (he's also sent me
e-mail instructions that I can forward to anyone - I've modified just slightly
based on a couple of questions I needed to ask) 

more later....

Glenn

    A good start is one can of malt (your choice, but I suggest you stay
    away from the stout kits until you've made some ales), and use dried
    malt in place of sugar.  You'll need about 2 lbs for a batch.  Still,
    use corn sugar when you bottle.  I mix 3/4 cup corn sugar in 2 cups of
    water and mix it into the beer before I bottle.
    
    If you like hops, add an ounce or two to the boil.  Fuggles is the
    classic ale malt.  Hallertau is for german style.  There's lots of
    others, and a brew store can suggest some.  The latest thing in hops is
    plugs.  They press whole hop flowers together, so you get the "fresh"
    hop taste.  I'm avoiding pellets these days because they're messy, but
    with whole hops they strain out easily and I think they add a better
    taste.
    
    Also, one packet of yeast is enough if you give it a good start.
    My favorite dried yeast is Whitbread.  Start it like bread yeast - a
    cup of warm water, couple of spoons of sugar, add the yeast and when
    it's foaming add it to the beer and shake well.
    
    Scott
    

    
    
    Whitbread?  Glad to hear that!  I made my first batch this past week
    with Whitbread yeast......little buggers were making quite a stir in my
    kitchen over the weekend!! :^)
    
    Hogan with lots of beer in the fridge and lots of beer in the making!
    %^)

>    A good start is one can of malt (your choice, but I suggest you stay
>    away from the stout kits until you've made some ales), and use dried
>    malt in place of sugar.  You'll need about 2 lbs for a batch.  Still,
>    use corn sugar when you bottle.  I mix 3/4 cup corn sugar in 2 cups of
>    water and mix it into the beer before I bottle.
 
This is exactly what I've been using - a good point aboutthe stout's!!! Since I
was just starting out I chose to brew an amber ale which was ready to drink
after about 14 days!  When it's your first batch, you want it to be ready asap,
stout takes much longer to mellow - like months!!! 
   
>    If you like hops, add an ounce or two to the boil.  Fuggles is the
>    classic ale malt.  Hallertau is for german style.  There's lots of
>    others, and a brew store can suggest some.  


>    The latest thing in hops is
>    plugs.  They press whole hop flowers together, so you get the "fresh"
>    hop taste.  I'm avoiding pellets these days because they're messy, but
>    with whole hops they strain out easily and I think they add a better
>    taste.
 
Thanks!  I'll keep my eyes open for these "plugs" and I think I'll try Fuggles
with my next ale... (the toughest thing about hops I think is trying to decide
how much of which kind to use and when to use it for a certain type of beer...)

   
>    Also, one packet of yeast is enough if you give it a good start.
>    My favorite dried yeast is Whitbread.  Start it like bread yeast - a
>    cup of warm water, couple of spoons of sugar, add the yeast and when
>    it's foaming add it to the beer and shake well.
 
I've been using two packets because I've heard it won't harm things (true?) and
that you can't always trust the packets that come with the cans because they
may be old -  (and I've been getting the kits to start with) - I've been using
Red Star -- what makes you prefer Whitbread over the others?  I've also been
simply pitching the yeast into the warm wort in the primary fermenter - saves
another step, results in less dishes to wash - any reason for starting it
like bread yeast first? 

Glenn   
    

    NEVER, EVER, EVER use corn syrup (except to prime and DME is better)...
       always use DME.
                                                                    rfb

re:         <<< Note 212.112 by IMTDEV::INGALLS "Earth Day - Every Day" >>>

> Red Star -- what makes you prefer Whitbread over the others?  I've also been
> simply pitching the yeast into the warm wort in the primary fermenter - saves
> another step, results in less dishes to wash - any reason for starting it
> like bread yeast first? 

	I think the idea of pre-starting the yeast is to get the wort
	fermenting asap which is important because the fermentation 
	process releases lots of CO2 gas that helps protect the batch 
	from infection.  If you pitch the yeast dry it takes a little 
	longer to start fermenting and therefore takes longer to produce
	the protective gas.

	Ken

    There's an issue of Zymurgy from a couple of years ago that's all about
    hops.  It's pretty much the standard reference for hops since there's
    no books covering the subject.  They've also done one on yeast that's
    pretty good.  They've made new printings so they're still available at
    brew stores.
    
    As for yeast, I use whatever is right for the style.  Lately I've been
    buying liquid yeast for special brews and the difference is amazing. 
    It costs a few $$ more, but I figure that since I spent lots on
    ingredients a little more for the right yeast won't kill me.
    As for dried ale yeast, my preference is as follows:
    Whitbread - I've had the best results with this, and if you like to
    start with lots of yeast the packets are a little larger
    Munton & Fison - also a good yeast, but I think it tends to produce
    more diacetyls that make for a tangy taste
    Edme - supposedly a good yeast, but a few times I got an infected batch
    Red Star - their wine yeasts are fine (use them for cider and mead),
    but their ale yeast IMHO creates some unpleasant odors (I think someone
    said it makes esthers)
    
    I've heard of some people swearing by what used to be called Budweiser
    yeast. It comes in bricks (2 lbs or so) and they mainly sell it to
    bakeries. Budweiser still makes it but Fleishman's markets it. I'd stay
    away from it since they sell it as a bread yeast.
    
    Scott
    

The train I was on while going from Boston to Chicago stopped in Albany for
an hour en route.  This guy who was sitting next to me and I decided (since
we had just about finished all the beer on board) to head across the street
to a bar (called "The Old Number 6") and discovered they had Guinness on tap!
My first taste of the tap version!  They also had a guy in there playing guitar
and singing Dead/Dylan tunes!  What a great place that was..


Coming back from SF the train was serving Sam Adams!  I thought I'd died and
gone to heaven..lots of folks had never heard of it, but I got them straightened
out real quick.





Jim "catching up with notes" H.

    
    So Jim.....now that you've tasted it after reading so many countless
    notes praising the wonders and goodness of Guinness, HOW DID YOU LIKE
    IT?
    
    I know from our talk that you should have expected the nectar of the
    gods... :^)
    
    Hogan

RE:                      <<< Note 212.117 by AWECIM::RUSSO >>>
                              -< yeah?  and.... >-

    
   > So Jim.....now that you've tasted it after reading so many countless
   > notes praising the wonders and goodness of Guinness, HOW DID YOU LIKE
   > IT?
    

    To be honest, I have to admit that I had already consumed numerous Labatts
    on the train, so my taste buds had already been seriously assaulted..however
    after 2 or 3 (which I would assume to be a fair sample) I would have to 
    say I liked it..just to be sure, however, whilst in California we went to
    a nice Irish pub in Monterey, where I felt obligated to sample another 
    couple (Guinness that is) and I liked it a lot...I would have sampled a
    couple more just to be sure, but Mom was along for the fun and determined
    that 2 of those things were plenty :^/




  Jim

On the subject of Guinness, one of my best subject by the way ;-), 
there is an Irish pub in Colorado Springs called McKenna's that serves 
Guinness on tap. A grate variation is to have a pint of Guinness but have
them put a splash of Port in it. Very tasty. 

Another variation I havn't tried is a pint 1/2 Guinness 1/2 champagne,
sound interesting if nothing else...

:-Chuck

re:          <<< Note 212.119 by COOKIE::FREIWALD "Teach Peace!" >>>

>Another variation I havn't tried is a pint 1/2 Guinness 1/2 champagne,
>sound interesting if nothing else...

That's called a "Black Velvet" and is quite tasty, though I still prefer my
Guinness straight up!  Mother's milk!

Don

Guinness -- 'black gold'  ....

I had a bunch of 'em at the 'Bull last night ... sure wish I wasn't driving
because i would have a bunch more...  now, only if they knew how to pour it
right...

    "The real marketing breakthrough came with Rutger Hauer, the
    little-known Dutch actor.  He was a real live, walking, talking
    pint of Guinness.

                                - The Sunday Times
                                - from Pat Costello (Galway, Ireland)
  

I forgot to mention:

I made my first batch of BREW this past Tuesday.  Thanks goes from me to Mr.
Russo_Mon for helping me out on that snowy evening.

Looks like I'll be bottling sometime in mid-January and drinkin' it sometime
in late-Jan early Feb...

Yum.

Perhaps the time is getting right for a DEChead home brew paHHHHty! !


	:-)


JC

    
    >>                  -< It is bubblin' in the prim. fermenter! >-
    
    Cool!!!  I was wondering about that! :^)
    
    While we're on the subject of stout :^).....I decided to spend a LOT of
    money for *1* beer and got myslef one of those 20 oz Samuel Smith's
    Oatmeal Stouts last night.  I poured it into my big glass, then talked
    on the phone for a half hour, greedily eyeing that glass the whole
    time.  It warmed up nicely, and tasted incredible!!!!  So smooth, so
    tasty!  They know how to make a grate brew....
    
    Hogan

    I found a place that sold Sam Adam's Cranberry Lambic by the case (and
    only by the case), and after wondering "what if I hate it?," I bought
    it.  I needn't have worried -- it's excellent.  It's a wheat beer,
    feremented again with cranberries and sweetened with maple syrup.  The
    cranberry taste isn't strong, but it does have a distinct crisp, fruity
    taste.  Surprisingly, it was only $1 or so more than regular SA.
    
    Jamie
    

	Don't buy Sam Adams in MA !!!  It is *so* expensive compared to
	the price one would pay in NH ... this past w-end, I bought a
	case of Sam Adams Ale for $17.59 ... around where I live in MA
	is goes for over $23 ...

 When I was in Calif for Thanksgiving I found Sam Adams was cheaper there than
in NH!  $4.29/6 vs $5.79 in NH.




 Jim

>    I found a place that sold Sam Adam's Cranberry Lambic by the case (and
>    only by the case), and after wondering "what if I hate it?," I bought

WHERE????  I want some!  And, if anyone has seen it in the western part of
Mass. PLEASE let me know!

Chuck

BTW, Scott did you ever get to the Sunset Grill to try it on tap?    

    
    I bought a case of Sam Adams Lager at BJ's in Westboro for $16.99.
    Thats a good place to buy beer if you want it warm and by the case. 
    The selection is very limited (no other Sam Adams available), but if
    they got your flavor and you want to buy a lot its a good deal.
    
    True, the prices are better in New Hampshire, but there are a LOT of
    beers that I never see in New Hampshire, such as Ayinger, Hacker
    Pschorr, Samuel Smiths....the really exceptional imports, and the
    really exceptional microbrews.  Is it because beer is sold in
    supermarkets in NH, and not 'liquor stores'?  The selection is lame in
    supermarkets just about everywhere, but at least in Mass there are
    liquor stores that carry a much better variety of beers.  Still, a
    $5.00 difference for a case of beer is absurd!!
    
    Hogan

    re .-1
    
    Julio's Liquors in Westboro.  They have one the best selections around. 
    I don't know how long they'll have it around, though.  A case was the
    only way it was sold and was $22.99 + deposit.
    
    re: <<< Note 212.126 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "Guinness gives you strength" >>>
       >                -< The Shaft-Us-Drinkusetts Tax >-

	>Don't buy Sam Adams in MA !!!  It is *so* expensive compared to
	>the price one would pay in NH ... this past w-end, I bought a
	>case of Sam Adams Ale for $17.59 ... around where I live in MA
	>is goes for over $23 ...
    
    SA has been discounting their Ale and Lager for the past few months,
    though I haven't seen it that low ($18.xx is the lowest I've seen
    around here).  Then again, everything's more expensive in Hardvard.
    :^)  :^)
    
    I don't like to buy it in NH because I burn the savings in gas to get
    there and, more importantly, the bottles are non-returnable.  Northboro
    just started curbside recycling, but my apartment building isn't
    eligible and they closed the recycling center so we're SOL.
    
    BTW, what's the deal with returnables in California?  The bottles say
    "California redemption value" but we couldn't find any place to take
    them.  I'm surprised that state doesn't have an aggressive redemption
    program.
    
    Jamie

	PJ O'Rourke's in Shrewsbury, or whatever the place is called
	at the 9+20 intersection, now has Murphy's Irish Stout on tap.

	Caught the opening day last friday, and it was great!

	Ken

    JJ not PJ :') just wait a while the name will change soon !

    I started this before but got diverted...Chuck they sell Sam Adams 
    Cranberry in Amherst at a store on RTE 9 after you go through
    downtown Amherst....it's on the left across from a Cumberland Farms
    (Don't remember the name but it's famous for its selections of brew).
    
    rich

 I found a pretty good selection of less popular beer at the Market Basket
in Londonderry..picked up a 6 pack (last one!) of Catamount Porter Sat night.
I noticed a lot of beers that I hadn't heard of before, but I'm not totally
familiar with all the microbrewerys around.




Jim

re:   <<< Note 212.133 by WFOV12::BUTZE "Quick beat of an icy heart..." >>>

>   (Don't remember the name but it's famous for its selections of brew).

    Would that be Billy's Beverages in Sunderland?  I've never been, but
    have heard a lot about it.  They were also a big advertiser on central
    Mass' coolest radio station.  WRSI in Greenfield.  Wish I could receive
    it in Nashua!

    Digression Don

    We can get Samuel Smith's in NH.  What we can't get is Anchor or Sierra
    Nevada.
    
    There's a convenience store on 101 in Wilton (next to the House By The
    Side of the Road) that claims to have 85 different beers.  They have
    most major brands and a rather interesting selection of smaller brands.
    
    BTW, Discovery Channel is showing the Beerhunter this week.  Last night
    it was Belgium, tonifght it's England.  Every night this week at 7:30,
    and they show a different one at 1:30 am.
    
    Scott
    

re            <<< Note 212.130 by STUDIO::IDE "now it can be told" >>>

>    around here).  Then again, everything's more expensive in Hardvard.
>    :^)  :^)

Actually mon, Harvard is a dry town - ain't no liquor allowed anywhere.  One
of 10 (?) dry towns out of 351 in the state of MA.  And, as far as I'm
concerned, Harvard can stay dry...

>    I don't like to buy it in NH because I burn the savings in gas to get
>    there and, more importantly, the bottles are non-returnable.  Northboro

Buy 5 cases at a whack mon!!  That'll end up being a savings of $50 - $60
total - even my gas-guzzling camaro could get there in back well under
$50 (I could drive to canada an back on $50 of gas!!)

I'll be using the bottle to make my brew.  What I don't use, heads to the
recycling bin at the dump.

re; Jim Henderson  

Deb paid $4.79 for a 6 of Sam in NH -- where have you been shopping?  At
$17.59 /case, the six-pack price is $4.40 - cheaper than BUDWIESER in MA !!!

JC

>re; Jim Henderson  

>Deb paid $4.79 for a 6 of Sam in NH -- where have you been shopping?  At
>$17.59 /case, the six-pack price is $4.40 - cheaper than BUDWIESER in MA !!!


  Hmmm..obviously at the wrong place :^/  





 Jim

    RE:            <<< Note 212.130 by STUDIO::IDE "now it can be told" >>>
    
    >> BTW, what's the deal with returnables in California?  The bottles say
    >> "California redemption value" but we couldn't find any place to take
    >> them.  I'm surprised that state doesn't have an aggressive redemption
    >> program.
    
    Yeah, you'd think so, wouldn't you...  The lobbiests were initially able
    to push through a bill for penny a bottle, which strikes me as almost
    less than useless, but lets them say that they've done something for
    the environment.  I think that's gone up to a bit more than that now,
    but I don't think it's reached the nickle or dime some states have.
    (I tend to just drop the bottles off at night when the places are
    closed, so I'm not sure exactly how much they give back).
    
    Many supermarkets have a bunch of different coloured "mushrooms" in
    their parking lots.  Each colour corresponds to a type of recyleable
    stuff (clear class, coloured glass, aluminum, plastic bottles, etc).
    That's where a lot of people (at least in the bay area) take their
    bottles.
    
    j
    

                       <<< Note 212.136 by BCSE::ABBOT >>>
>    There's a convenience store on 101 in Wilton (next to the House By The
>    Side of the Road) that claims to have 85 different beers.  They have
>    most major brands and a rather interesting selection of smaller brands.

Hi Folsk and I hope everyone had a happy happy!

Scott - this place had a much, much larger selection, including 3 or 5 
kinds of Sam Smith's just a couple of years ago.  

Did anyone try the Catamount Christmas Ale?  I did but that was about 3 weeks
ago.  I bought it at the North End Superette in Manchester that Scott mentioned
quite a few notes ago....

bob

    
    
    I tried the Catasmount Christmas Ale.....it was pretty good.  It tasted
    very similar to Post Road Ale.  I did buy some beer at a supermarket in
    Nashua this week, and must admit that what I said earlier was
    wrong....they had a good selection of microbrews....
    
    Hogan
    
    PS: my most outstanding accomplishment this holiday season is the
    inches I've added to my (beer) belly......got to cut back on these
    heavy brews a bit, and drop some of this extra weight....

I picked up a case of Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic on Tuesday.

Such yummy stuff! 

	~dave

Well, I racked my brew from the primary fermenter to the carboy without a
problem...  Now to just wait for 3-4 weeks to bottle.

JC_Brew mon

	Tried some great brews over Christmas:

	. Goudenband by Liefman's (or something like that).  Belgian/Lambic 
	  style in the small champagne bottle w/ the fruit which I *think* 
	  was either blackberry or more probably black cherry.  About $4.69
	  a 12 oz bottle, it was dated 1988.  It was really good but next
	  time I'll go for the cherry or raspberry version.

	. Chimay Red Ale.  Another Belgian beer, brewed by Monks.  A major
	  yeast flavor similar to weizen/wheat beer flavor.  Very heavy and
	  very strong with a big bitter hoppy malty aftertaste.   Not my
	  favorite due to the excessive yeast "bite".

	. Sam Smith's Winter Ale (not the exact name but close enough) in
	  the 1 pint, ~3 oz bottle.    *Delicious* english ale with a great
	  hoppiness.   My only regret is that I didn't buy more! ;-)

	Ken

re:         <<< Note 212.144 by FURTHR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>
   
    >	. Sam Smith's Winter Ale (not the exact name but close enough) in
    >	  the 1 pint, ~3 oz bottle.    *Delicious* english ale with a great
    >	  hoppiness.   My only regret is that I didn't buy more! ;-)


    Winter Welcome ale... or Welcome Winter Ale, it's one or the other.
  I've got a nice big bottle of that sitting at home. Sam Smith has some
  really grate beers!

Shawn

    ....and such a colorful label too.....:')

     3-4 weeks to bottle??? fresh beer should be ready to bottle in 7-10
    days from the time fermentation started, no more than 2 weeks. Then let
    her set bottled for 2 weeks,(unlesss it's a heavy stout or porter)
    then drink up!
    
    rfb
    
    P.S JC, thanks fer the Jerry/Kahn tape..tis sweet %^)
                                                         

re                     <<< Note 212.147 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>
                       -< 3-4 weeks is a little long... >-

>     3-4 weeks to bottle??? fresh beer should be ready to bottle in 7-10

I boiled the stuff and then let it sit in the primary fermenter for 7 or so
days.  Then, on 24-Dec, I racked it to the carboy.  Are you saying that I
should bottle now?  Or should I wait a little bit? 
    
>    P.S JC, thanks fer the Jerry/Kahn tape..tis sweet %^)
 
Glad you got that tape ok mon!  One night I had a nightmare about the tape:
I dreamed that I addressed it to the wrong person ... I didn't want to let
you know I was sending it because I wanted ya to be a wee-bit surprized.
Send me mail if you want a postscript label for that tape...

Last night's activities...

Cooked my fifth batch, "Black and White Raccoon" -- used up left over
ingredients -- 2.5 lbs Honey
               1.75 c Dark DME
               2.75 c Light DME
               0.5 oz Tetnanger (sp?) bitter hops
               0.5 oz Cascade aroma hops
               1 pkg EDME yeast

-- the wort looks darker than I expected -- whadya think rfb?  Have you ever
tried a honey brew with dark or amber DME??? 

Racked my forth batch, "Rocky Raccoon Honey Brew", to Secondary (this is after
about a 8 days in the primary -- I've been averaging anywhere from 5 to 9 days
before racking to secondary -- this one has stopped bubbling for several days, 
just been too busy/lazy)

Bottled my third batch, "Dark Democracy" (Primary for 9 days, Secondary 8 days
-- this is an awful long time -- was probably ready to bottle after 10 to 12
days -- but I'm still limited by the number of Grolsch bottles I have -- need
to drink enough in order to bottle the next batch %^) 

Almost finished off the rest of my second batch, "How Now Brown Brew".. %^)
This one sat in Primary for 5 or 6 days, secondary for 6 or 7, was ready to
drink after after about 12 to 14 days in the bottle) -- 'twas yummy 

First batch all gone...

Enjoy--'

Don't_stop_me_now_I'm_on_a_roll_Glenn

    JC, Bottle this weekend! as long as there's no major activity in the
    secondary. Sunday would be 12 days, I'd go 14 max. with a "liter" beer.
                                                               rfb
    

    yes, I've brewed a honey beer and so have the Serkmans, with dark DME
    and it does make a totally different looking honeybrew. Your recipe
    looks good, I'da normally reversed the order of the of the hops, but
    after thinking about it, that combonation used in that way might be
    interesting. 
                rfb

I got a homebrew kit for Christmas, yahoo!!

I'm going to start my first batch, Happy New Beer, tonight!

- Dave

re:           <<< Note 212.152 by VMPIRE::CLARK "sleep in the stars" >>>
                         -< relax ... don't worry ... >-

>I got a homebrew kit for Christmas, yahoo!!


    Congrats   - Dave,

    I was hoping for one but no go. 8-(
 Now I need to go out get one. Then it will give my wife something new to 
 complain about. ;-)

Shawn

re:                     <<< Note 212.151 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>

>>    yes, I've brewed a honey beer and so have the Serkmans, with dark DME

Okay, what/who are the Serkmans???

>>    looks good, I'da normally reversed the order of the of the hops, but

So you would use Cascade for bittering and tetnanger for aroma???  Why?



Enjoy--'

Glenn

    I had an excellent Hogan Stout on Christmas day. Got better as
    it warmed up a bit. I was way impressed.
    
    I bought a case of Harpoon Winter Warmer for a christmas party I
    had. Good stuff.
    
    - Dave

    One of my New Years Resolutions is to buy all new brewing equipment
    and start brewing beer again (many people *quit* drinking for their
    resolution, I think of new ways to partake :-).
    
    One question I have is because we have wood heat and no one is
    around to stoke the fires all day, will it cause a problem for the
    brewing process. The house is generally at 45 F during the day in the
    winter (unless the fires are going) and probably can only get up to about
    60 F ('cept near the stove or fireplace ;-).
    
    Gerry 

    no problem with yer temps Ger...in fact, should be perfect for
    lagering.
    
    rfb

    Glen...
    Serks are friends I turned on to brewing last year, thought you knew
    them.
    
    Cascades are NORMALLY bittering/aroma hops and Tetts are NORMALLY used
    for aroma.....but that don't mean nothin...
                                               rfb

	I thought I heard that it's good to have *consistent* temps
	during fermentation.  Don't know if a 15 degree spread is a lot
	or not...   

	Ken

    re: temps
    
    My cellar is a pretty consistant 45 F. 
    
    
    re: hops
    
    Anyone grow their own? I'd like to give that a try this year. Any info
    or hints would be helpful. 
    
    

>     My cellar is a pretty consistant 45 F. 

	I would plan on lagers and not on ales.  Ale yeast needs higher
	temps I think.

>    re: hops
>    
>    Anyone grow their own? I'd like to give that a try this year. Any info
>    or hints would be helpful. 

        A friend in NH grows his own hops.   I'm not sure if he uses it
	in his brew or not.   If you'd like I can give you his address.

	Ken    
    

    Gerry,
    A good source of hops info is the Hops special issue of Zymurgy.  Most
    homebrew stores keep a stock of the special issues.
    In the spring you can get cuttings and you should get a small crop that
    year, and lots the next year if all goes right.
    
    If you want to make a yummy beer and don't have a spare fridge, try a
    steam beer.  Make it like a pale ale, but use lager yeast at ale yeast
    temperatures.
    
    Scott
    

Re: lower temps

My beer fermenting temps range from 50 to 65 degrees and haven't had any
adverse affects on my first four batches... (BTW, I've used ale yeast, but
usually use either an extra packet or use the 11.5g EDME ale yeast) It takes it
a while to kick off -- usually 24-48 hrs and lasts for three or four days -- I
just leave it for about a week in primary, move to secondary for a week, cook
another batch and add to primary. Then next week, bottle from secondary (after
two weeks, even at the lower temps, you're pretty safe all fermentation is
complete), move primary to secondary, cook another batch and add to primary.

Repeat weekly ;^) 

If prone to worry, an idea from HOMEBREW notes is to use a new, sterilized fish
tank heater to maintain a consistent 65 - 70 degree temp. The trick is how to
maintain a sealed environment with the wire going from the heater in the wort
to the plug outside the wort... but rfb, being the grate mentor he is, has me
convinced of the un-scientific method --- 

Don't worry -- 

BREW IT, BOTTLE IT, DRINK IT!!!

Enjoy--'

Glenn

    
    Wow.....I have a batch thats been in the secondary for 3 weeks now,
    after 4 days in the primary......still waiting to bottle, fermentation
    ain't done yet.
    
    I have a stout that I brewed before Thanksgiving, and its still
    fermenting VERY strongly......but then again I added a little enzyme to
    make allow more fermentation.  I think I added a bit too much :^) :^),
    this 'Bozo Stout' will make a clown out of anyone who dares drink it.
    
    da ve?
    
    :^)
    
    Hogan

>>                      <<< Note 212.164 by AWECIM::RUSSO >>>

    
>>    Wow.....I have a batch thats been in the secondary for 3 weeks now,
>>    after 4 days in the primary......still waiting to bottle, fermentation
>>    ain't done yet.
  
Wow, is right -- fermenting four weeks seems like  a long time -- is this a
lager? I think lager's are suppose to take a longer.  Since I'm still on my
first few batches, I'm only brewing ales since they're typically ready to drink
earlier :^) 

  
>>    I have a stout that I brewed before Thanksgiving, and its still
>>   fermenting VERY strongly......but then again I added a little enzyme to
>>    make allow more fermentation.  I think I added a bit too much :^) :^),

Yikes! Fermenting STRONGLY for almost six weeks!! That must be some enzyme! 

>>    this 'Bozo Stout' will make a clown out of anyone who dares drink it.
    
looking fer volunteers??? ;^)



Enjoy--'

Glenn

	fwiw most of my beers stayed in the secondary for at least
	3 weeks, but from what I've been reading maybe it was too long...
	some of the beer was great, some not so great.

	Inconsistency is what got to me...

	Ken

    Usually you can let the beer sit in the carboy for a long time before
    bottling, as long as the airlock is maintained.  I know someone who
    often lets his beer sit for 6 months or more (and these are just normal
    ales) because of a lack of bottling time and I've tasted some of these
    batches and there were no off tastes at all.  I rarely bottle anything
    less than a month old, again mainly due to having a free bottling day. 
    And depending on the ingredients, like honey or fruit, or if it's a
    mead or cider, I'll let it sit for a couple of months.  Then it takes
    some beer a long time to taste good.  Last spring I made a batch of
    spruce beer and it's just getting a good balanced taste.
    
    Scott
    

    Somethingf tells me that Hogan is going to be very happy with this
    batch of very long fermenting stuff,... 
    
    I'd like to give it a try but Hogan knows how I feel about that
    stuff,.. as long as he doesn't mind me spitting up all over his
    kitchen,.. I don't mind trying it out.
    
    I'll line up right behind (or in front of) da ve
    
    								/
    

I just got back from a 5-day vacation.  My brew is sitting quietly in the 
carboy with about 1/3" of "suds" at the top of the liquid.  Nothing really
bubbling at this time.  

Rfb, you think I should bottle this stuff asap?  And, is it ok to let it
hang out until I get the time?

JC

    the line for the Bozo Stout (tm) forms BEHIND da ve if you please! 
    :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)  :^)
    
    after all, i probably provided most of the empties they will be put
    into...  :^)  
    
    i'm actually considering label with my picture on it for Hogan to
    use...  that stuff has my name written all over it...  (burp!)
    
    					da ve

    
    JC, if you have foam on the top of the brew, I'd call that a sign that
    fermentation is still going on......I wait until it goes away.....
    
    da ve, if you want to clean all the current labels off my empties, and
    replace them with a label featuring you with that 'classic red bozo
    haircut', go right ahead!!!  :^)
    
    Unfortunately, the Bozo Stout may not be drinkable.....I topped it off
    with cold Poland Springs water when I racked to the carboy....and may
    have invited contamination.....
    
    I'll let da ve drink the first one.....and the second one.....then I'll
    try one the next day if da ve survives :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan

    hey da ve... who died and elected *you* Bozo? :-) :-) :-)
    

    i do not claim to be THE ONE TRUE Bozo...  just one of the sub-bozo's
    on this bus! :^)  
    
    					da ve  

 JC   I'd let it hang out...so to speak...
                                          rfb

Fair enough; It'll hang for a bit.  Will that foam eventually go away ?  And
when it does, should I go for the bottling phase?  I can't wait to try it
out!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought about piggy-backing another batch and decided to wait to see how
this comes out.  I'll probably fire up another batch when I've had a few
of the new stuff....

My first batch is called:  "JJ CALE ALE 1" -- it rhymes and I'm a fan of
Mr Cale.

    Looks like my first brew will be a Budvar-like Czechoslovakian Pilsener.
    If I can find the ingredients, that is.

Mine's gonna be a bitter ale ... just started fermenting Sat. night!

- waitin' Dave

My brew, an Australian Lager, is fermenting like there is no tomorrow right
now!  It is in the carboy ... for a while, it was not doing much, but now, I
think it is about ready to boil over!

I've had to carefully soak some of the residue liquid out of the air lock to
prevent it from dripping down the carboy...

Can't wait to drink it!!!  another 3 - 4 weeks or so, I think!

    Ger, good luck on your first pilsner.  Due to the lightness of the
    ingredients,pilsner style lagers are really tough to make.  Not much
    extra malt to cover up any screwups.  If you haven't done so already,
    get yourself a copy of Noonan's book on making lagers.
    
    Scott_whose_hands_are_sore_from_capping_180_bottles_this_weekend
    

    
    Yeah, good luck Ger!
    
    Hogan waiting (now impatiently) to bottle

    re:                   <<< Note 212.179 by TLE::ABBOT >>>

    >Due to the lightness of the ingredients,pilsner style lagers are 
    >really tough to make.  
    
    recipe looked pretty straightforward, I thought. What do you mean by
    lightness? I assume color since Budvar isn't a particularly light tasting
    beer.
    
    >Not much extra malt to cover up any screwups. 
    
    What kind of screwups? Flavor? Coloring? What do you mean by "extra malt"?
    "Special" malts? There's certainly a lot of malt in it - 5lbs of light dried
    and 1lb of crystal. That's a considerable amount of malt, I thought. 
    
    Now I have doubts about making it since there's are unforseen possibility
    for screwups. Any other lager suggestions, then?

    re: -.1 & -.2
    
    perhaps you're refering to "body" when you mean "lightness". I guess
    I'm confused by the term since it can refer to color, taste and body.

	I'm a bit confused about that term too.   You can certainly have
	a hearty full bodied heavy beer that is light in color...

	Gerry, if you like Pilsener style go for it!!!  My all time best,
	favorite beer that I ever brewed was a Pilsener.  Batch #4, I remember
	it well ;-)

	All malt except for priming sugar, it contained about 6 lbs of dry 
	extract, with pale and crystal grains.   Primary hop was Gelinas hops
	which reminds me of Tetnanger used in Sam Adams.

	If you want the recipe I can see if I can dig it up.  Unfortunately
	I could not duplicate it - I changed the yeast to a liquid yeast
	and got a totally different beer which is to be expected but I 
	didn't know back then.

	As far as Budvar, man that is goooooooood beer!   I had some of
	this Czech beer while visiting an "American" bar for lunch in
	Bath, England ;-)    

	Ken

    I don't know how dark Budvar is, but a pilsner like Pilsner Urquel is
    rather light and probably tough to duplicate.  By light, I mean it has
    a low amount of fermentables as compared to a medium body ale.  And
    since it has less of a grain bite, and a good balance of hops, if some
    kind of an off taste develops you may be more likely to notice it.
    
    A good lager will require anywhere from a few weeks to several months
    of cold storage.  It's definitely worth making since you have the
    facilities, not as many homebrewers do lagers as they do ales.
    
    Anyhow, I didn't mean light as in watery or weak, I meant it as in
    using lighter grains and going for as much clarity as possible.  Good
    hops are important - if you can't get them fresh try to get the .5
    ounce plugs, they're way better than the pellets in my experience.
    
    Great to see so many starting brewing!
    
    Scott
    

    Anyhow, go for the pilsner.  6 pounds is enough malt, and as long as
    you keep things clean (don't let the airlock dry out either) it's
    doubtful anything will go wrong.
    
    The important things in a lager are a constant cold temperature, the
    colder the better (I think the Germans lager at near freezing), a good
    yeast (maybe not this batch, but consider the liquid yeasts, they
    really do make a difference), and getting just the right carbonation
    (prime with the required amount of sugar or malt, and mix it in a pint
    of boiling water and add to the finished beer, don't put dry sugar in
    each bottle as you'll get different amounts of carbonation from the
    slightly different amounts of sugar).
    
    The Papazian book is the best place to start, but eventually buy or
    borrow the Noonan (I think that's his name) book on lagers, published
    by the Zymurgy people, and the Dave Miller brewing book covers things
    that Papazian doesn't (although he worries more than Charlie).  Also, I
    think the AHA has a book on pilsners in their "Great Beer Styles"
    series.
    
    Scott
    

    I think I'll drop the pilsener idea since I've been scared off and
    opt for a regular and an amber lager (yes, 2 batches). I'll probably
    mature one a little longer in secondary fermentation and the other
    I'll bottle. I'll have to wait until spring to try any ales, tho.
    
    - gerry
    
    PS - am I digressing here by discussing homebrewing as opposed to beer?

>    PS - am I digressing here by discussing homebrewing as opposed to beer?

	As long as you produce "GRATE beer" I don't see a problem ;-)

	Of course, we'll just have to see about that at the beer tasting!

	;-)

	Ken

re: <<< Note 212.187 by FURTHR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>

>	Of course, we'll just have to see about that at the beer tasting!

    Oh sure. I haven't even bought the ingredients yet and Ken's already
    in line for the tasting. :-) Next thing you know, bo zo, er, I mean 
    da ve'll be claiming he's first. :-)

    
    the line forms BEHIND me!!!!!!!
    
    				bo zo_da ve :^) :^) :^)

	Well, I'm kinda busy, but this is important...

While in Utah last week, I discovered a micro-brwery in Park City. No, I didn't 
ski there, way too yuppified; I skied Alta and Snowbird, where the steep is 
steep and the powder is powder, but I digress. Anyhow, I tried three of their 
beers. I was unimpressed with their lager, but there ale was superb. It was a 
dark ale with only a touch of hop; real smooth and clean, emphasized the taste 
of the water, know what I mean? Well worth the 40 minute detour from downtown 
Salt Lake!! They also had a Wiezen which was just outta this werld!

	Biggest bummer wa they wouldn't serve til after 1:00. Utah has mighty
strange statutes on alchohol consumption...

Fog

    Fog..do you remember the name of the beer...think you can get it 
    at this place in Amherst Mass...they have a broad selection of
    micro-brewed beers.
    
    rich

    Ger...don't be scared off from the Budvar...I can get a Pilsner Urquell
    recipe and a "hootwiser" recipe that are ale style brews. My pilsner
    comes real close to Pilsner Urquell, not quite as hoppy, and the
    "hootwiser" uses rice extract w/ the malt to make the best tasting
    budwieser I've EVER tasted!!!!...remember...IT'S EASY!
                                                          rfb
    

>    Fog..do you remember the name of the beer...think you can get it 
>    at this place in Amherst Mass...they have a broad selection of
>    micro-brewed beers.
    
Um, No rich, sorry. I stumbled into this place and it wasn't until I had had 
three or four that I realized I was sitting on top of a still. :-}

My guess would be Park City Brewery.

Well, fermentation is starting to "chill out" a bit now, but it is still going.
For a minute, I thought it was going to ferment for months at the rate that
baby was bubblin' ...


- - -

I've had the pleasure (and displeasure) of trying a few brews new to me.  One
was the Catamount Porter -- very nice, dark brew; it has soft of a stout
taste to it without the heavyness of a real stout.  Very nice tasting.

Another is Telluride Beer.  This stuff, imo, is garbage.  It smells and tastes
like some gross american brew I had in my distant past.  Very light colored,
very carbonated, rank smell, and aweful taste.  Sorry Telluride beer!

Another brew I tasted was this holiday ale from some brewery in San Fran.
The label was primarily beige with a green design.  I forget the name of
the brew, but this was good stuff!!

- - -

FWIW, the Purity Supreme right off exit 1 in NH rte 3 has a fine selection
of imported brews for a supermarket... a full line of Catamount, among 
many other fine brews (some John Courage as well!! mmm, but EXPENSIVE!!!)...

JC

re: the holiday brew from San Francisco

Are you thinking perhaps of Anchor Steam's Christmas Ale?  I had some the other
evening at a friend's house... Great stuff.  Very dark brew,  spiced with 
nutmeg and cinnamon (like a wassail someone said?).  Label is beige with
green christmas-y type stuff on it.  YUM!

	-td

There's a recipe for a holiday brew in Papazian's book ... uses things like
cinnamon, I think, and orange peel ... looks mighty good!

So I've read the book, but I was wondering ... do you folks faithfully use
a hydrometer to determine when fermenting's done, or do you just go by the
lack of CO2 output, or what?

- DC

re: San Fran brew

I don't recall a cinnamon taste to this brew, but the label sure sounds like
this label.  I check it tonight if I remember.

re: hydrometer

They say you're supposed to bottle when the specific gravity stays the same
for 3 days (or something like this).  However, to do this, you'd have to
take beer out of the carboy and put it in the hydrometer.  I don't know how
one can do this w/o introducing germs to the brew... so, I'll just do it by
the CO2 output ..  rfb, do you use a hydrometer for this?

    
    
    Re .196
    
    My brother and I made that Holiday Brew, and I drank the last one a
    week ago.  Best batch yet!!!  Had a nice flavor to it, not too spiced.
    
    Hogan

Dave Barry on beer (from his 1992 Calendar)....

January 6
---------
I'm glad I got into beer-making, because the beer sold here in the United 
States is sweet and watery and lacking in taste and overcarbonated and just
generally the lamest, wimpiest beer in the entire known world. All other 
nations are drinking Ray Charles beer, and we are drinking Barry Manilow.

    Ditto on the Telluride brew (made in Wisconson I think) 
    Should seen the heads buyin the stuff by the cases when the boyz played
    Telluride, Hoot saved a GIANT display case of whiskey from a head who
    almost dropped 3 cases of Telluride swill whilst leaving the liquor
    store...store owner was VERY appreciative. Back then townsfolk said
    the old Telluride brewery would be refurbished and the brew would
    eventually be made there...quess the "test' cities proved it would be a
    losing thing...now a brewpub in Telluride would be different. 
    
    hydrometer??? we don't need no stinking hydrometer!!!  %^)
    
    rfb

    
    Dave Barry has been a noted 'American beer' hater for a few years.... I
    guess Miller or Bud asked him to do an ad for them once, and he said
    "NO WAY!" :^)
    
    Hogan

    I use my hydrometer three times while brewing: once at the beginning
    for the initial gravity, again when racking into secondary, and then
    just before bottling.  You can get an idea of its alcohol content by
    subtracting the final gravity from the initial gravity and multiplying
    by some magic number (like 1.3).  Also it gives my an idea, if I'm
    following a recipe, that I've done things right.  I did the stuff with
    checking it every couple of dasy when I did my first brew, but gave up
    on it.  Now I just look for any tiny bubbles coming to the surface, if
    it's fairly flat it's time to bottle.
    
    Re: American beers - there's still some good ones out there.  I think
    Anchor Steam qualifies as a world class beer, and now we have
    microbreweries getting national distribution (Anchor, Sam Adams, Sierra
    Nevada), and more and more people are realizing that there's more than
    one style of beer.  The big brewers still control about 95% of the
    market and probably always will, but you know people are waking up when
    you can go into a restaurant and find something more than Michelob on
    their "quality beer" list.
    
    Scott
    

	The Sit n Bull just got New Castle Brown Ale on tap last week!  I
	enjoyed 2 pints of this and 2 pints of Guinness... when the
	decision came for my third pint, I was torn between Guinnes and
	the Brown Ale - since already having 2 Guinnesses, I opted for
	the brown ale :-) .,....


	The New Castle stuff is very nice ...

    I've had some homemade newcastles that were mighty tasty!!
                                                              rfb

	Well, I think my brew is finally being mellow - fermentation has stopped
for the most part in the corboy.  I plan to bottle the brew this weekend.  I
want to get a bottle washer this week!  

	Any tips?

    I suppose I could help wash some bottles.   Maybe even on 
    speculation...
    			jon_brown_nose_brewer_kisser_upper_to :-^^  :-)

    
    >>        Any tips?
    
    Yeah.....make sure the bottles are all clean ;^)
    
    A bottle washer is great if you ask me.....however, you have that split
    sink, right?  Even if you don't have a bottle washer, you'll be able to
    clean your bottles pretty effectively by soaking them in one part of
    the sink, and rinsing in the other part of the sink.  Its a litle
    tedious, but it doesn't take long once you get into a rhythm.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Hogan

I'm going to sample my first batch tonight!  Meanwhile my second batch, a
stout, is still bubbling away after 8 days of fermentation ... so I'm betting
on a respectable alcohol content ;^)

    
    	Can someone lead me in the right direction on how to make 
    	your own beer? Sounds like it would be fun to try. Thanks
    	in advance.
    
    					Later,
    					   Jim
    

Hi Jim;

Check out the home brewing notesfile, DATABS::HOMEBREW

- Dave

    How about microwaving the bottles to disinfect them ?  I don't brew
    but I'm assuming that dirt is only half the problem.

    Microwaving doesn't disinfect.  Someone suggested putting a bowl of
    water in the microwave with the bottles but it's much less effective
    than sanitizing with a bleach or soda solution.  Microwaves work only
    if the thing being microwaved is mostly water.
    
    As for a bottle washer, I don't use one.  If you keep your bottles
    clean (i.e. rinse several times immediately after pouring a beer, then
    store than in a clean box) you really don't need to do anything more
    than just simple sanitizing at bottling time.  I've never had an
    infected bottle, except on a couple where they weren't capped properly
    and the beer was exposed to air, but that wasn't the bottle's fault.
    
    Another trick that some people use is putting the bottles in the top
    rack of a dishwasher and running the rinse/heat dry cycle with no soap.
    If you bottle immediately they should be sanitized.  Never use soap on
    any brewing equipment unless you rinse very well, it's not good for the
    beer.
    
    The only time where you may need some heavy duty washing power is if
    you got a case of dirty bar bottle stock.  In that case, I find that
    soaking overnight in a mild bleach and detergent solution removes both
    the crud and the labels.  Bottle brushes are handy for removing
    stubborn stuff.  Also, get a carboy brush if you don't have one.  It
    can be tough to remove rings left behind by some brews.
    
    Scott
    
    

I'm guessing that my 5 gal carboy of brew is going to fill about 50 bottles.
That being the case, should I wash all 50 bottles at one time, then bottle?
Or, wash 10 bottles, fill, another 10, fill, etc until all is done?

I'm just thinking that there will be a little bit of elapsed time between
the 1st cleaned bottle and the 50th cleaned bottle and was wondering if
that is enough of a window for infection to set in.

JC

    
    JC,
    
    I've found cleaning all the bottles, then filling all the bottles, to
    be the most efficient way of doing it.  I haven't noticed a problem
    with infection.  It seems to me that cleaning a few, then bottling a
    few, then cleaning a few, etc......would be more aggravating, and not
    a necessary procedure.
    
    Hogan

re           <<< Note 212.208 by VMPIRE::CLARK "sleep in the stars" >>>

>I'm going to sample my first batch tonight!  Meanwhile my second batch, a

I know you're all waiting anxiously for my report. ;^)  Not bad!  A little
bit lighter and sweeter than I expected, though.  The carbonation turned out
perfect.  The only thing I shouldn't have done was use Nashua tap water :^P
but I've already started using bottled spring water (oh boy, cyanide!) with
my second batch.

Now to work on bottle labels ...

- brewmeister Dave

    JC...RELAX!!!! yer too paranoid about bottling. I would recommend a
    bottle washer. HOT! water being sprayed a high velocity gets rid of any
    bleach you might have still left adhearing to the glass, 
    as well as any other bugs hangin around. DON't use a lot of bleach
    when sterilizing, a very diluted batch works well, the stuff is
    POISON! B-Brite is worse!
                             rfb

I used Charlie Papazan's formula; 2 tablespoons of bleach per 5 gallons of
water ... seems to work fine.  Wait a minute, what's this growing out of my
neck, MY NECK, AAAAAAAAAAAARGGGHH

    Same here - wash all the bottles and then bottle them all in one swell
    foop.
    
    About what Dave said - if you think you have yucky water, one trick to
    get all the minerals and gasses out is to boil it, then let it cool
    overnight in the boiling pot. All the gunk should precipitate out.
    Consider yourself real lucky if your water is hard and loaded with
    salts (well, not like mineral water, but you can get a water analysis
    free from the city and the books tell you what is good), some of the
    best ales are made with hard water. I've always used tap water, when I
    lived in Lyndeboro we had our own well, it was a shallow well so it was
    probably loaded with minerals and bacteria, but it worked fine.  Now I
    use Milford tap water which is loaded with all sorts of junk (what's
    the RDA of manganese?) but it seems to taste ok.
    
    If you use spring water or highly filtered or distilled water you may
    want to consider adding either gypsum or "Burton water salts" if you're
    trying to make a British style ale.
    
    Scott
    

Ok mon, I'll relax.  I just hear so much about infection that I guess I'm
paranoid now!

I'm going to see if I can get a bottle washer tomorrow and then I'll be in
business.

Since I've never bottled before, should a practise putting caps on a couple
of bottles so I get familiar w/ the process?

JC

    
    
    >>Since I've never bottled before, should a practise putting caps on a
    >>couple of bottles so I get familiar w/ the process?
    
    JC!!!!  Relax!!!!!  :^) :^) ;^)
    
    I dunno....do you have caps to waste?  You put the cap on the bottle,
    pull the arms of the capper "up', place the head of the capper on the
    cap, then push the arms down.  Once you've done 1, you've done them
    all.....except for the next 49 bottles, that is :^)
    
    Its cake.....you can practice on a full bottle, and if it doesn't work,
    you can always try again....and if it works, then it wasn't practice!
    :^)
    
    Hogan

I've been using two different caps so far ("Real Beer" and "Springtime") ...
the Real Beer caps fit on Sam Adams and Corona bottles, while the Springtime
caps fit on Amstel Light and St.Pauli Girl bottles ... so I guess these caps
must be different sizes?

I'm told that some cappers are adjustable; mine isn't.

- Dave who expects to be screamed at by a moderator any second now for not
  taking this to the homebrew notesfile, and laughs in the face of danger

re      <<< Note 129.130 by GOOROO::CLARK "Saddam still has a job, do u?" >>>

>    concluded that there are plenty of excellent beers on the market out
>    there, so why try? On the other hand, there are very few good

Well, you asked. ;^)

I do it because it's a fun hobby, you can brew a lot of different types
of beers (different ingredients etc.) that are hard to find on the market, 
homebrew is almost always cheaper, and doesn't have the additives and
preservatives that most commercial beers have.

- Dave

    right dave...right clark...right TOPIC!!!!
                                             
    
    rfb(feelin like a brew 'bout now)

    
    Well....I've got slightly mixed emotions about this right now, but am
    going on because I really like the hobby and enjoy the challenge.  My
    last batch, a dark ale, really like a porter, has come out ok.....not
    quite as good as I'd hoped.  I've been drinking them for a couple of
    weeks now, as I made 2.5 cases worth.  Now I'm not buying any beer,
    because I have all this homebrew.  Guess I should buy a little
    store-bought, because I miss the variety now....problem is, I set a
    goal to only make the beer that I drink at home, not to buy any.
    
    Of course the REALLY confusing variable here is that I also made a goal
    to cut down on beer drinking, and finally lose that dammed beer-belly
    I've made for myself! :^)
    
    Hard to do with a case of porter left, 2 cases of stout conditioning, a
    batch of ale to bottle next week, and another batch of stout to bottle
    the week after that :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan "I hope all this beer comes out good" ;^)

    
    
    BTW....I'm feeling like a brew right about now, too... ;^)
    
    Hogan

    Hogan,..
    
    
    	Don't you mean,.. you feel like about ,.. oh,. 1/2 a beer???
    
    	:-) :-) :-)
    
    							/Bill
    

    so Hogan....what's yer point???   %^)
    
    Don't feel bad, I'm drinking a porter that I vastly under carbonated
    But it's better that the weizen that's not even drinkable yet (almost a
    month in the bottle)...I'm buyin genesee cream ale when I "crave" a
    store bought beer.... on sale. 
                                   rfb (wish my raspberry mead was ready!)

    
    
    >>    so Hogan....what's yer point???   %^)
    
    I honestly don't know...... :^) :^) :^)
    
    I get Christian Morlein now....its $4.50/six pack, and is an excellent
    German style american-brewed beer (in Sinnsinaddi, Ohio :^).  Its as
    good as any beer that you'd normally pay $7.50+ for around here.  Their
    Dopple Dark is very fine!!
    
    Hogan mostly full ;^)

    Hogan, i can't stand to see such a good friend as you suffering through
    life with this over abundance of beer...  as soon as that Bozo Stout
    is ready, i'll come by and see if there's anything i can do to help
    with your inventory problem...  :^)  help you meet some of those
    goals...  (i'll drink half your beer and take the rest home with me!)
    
    					da ve

    
    Oh no.....I *KNEW* he'd take notice of that!  :^) :^) :^)
    
    I didn't say I had an inventory problem with the Bozo Stout! :^)
    
    BTW, I just found out from the HOMEBREW notes that it won't be any
    stronger than normal :^\  But it should still be good......
    
    Tell you what, da ve.....you bring a couple racks of Samuel Smith's
    Pale Ale to compliment the Celebrated Bozo Stout, and we'll have a
    ball!!!!  Sound good?
    
    da ve?  You there?
    
    ;^)
    
    Hogan "I'll serve no Stout to any Bozo before it's time" 

Let's have a Dave party and drink up all the beer!

    
    
    >>Let's have a Dave party and drink up all the beer!
    
    Sorry.....its all gone <burp!> now.....
    
    Hogan in unpasteurized bliss %^) %^) %^)
    
    PS: About those less complimentary than things I said about my beer
        yesterday; forget what I said :^)

    awwww, Hogan...  unpasteurized bliss at 9:36 in the morning????
    
    				da ve_who_thought_the_dave_party_sounded_
    				like_a_good_idea :^)

	Well, this should be my very first reply to this topic. Ever since it
started, I've been next unseening this topic with a tinge of jealousy,
lamenting the fact that the last thing my wife would want me to do is to even
mention a desire for homebrewing, given the fact that we're already overwhelmed
with hobbies such as child rearing, colonial home restoration, and collecting
deadtapes, not to mention that we're both doing not-so-great in controlling our
weight. :-/ 

	So, about a month ago, Rachey and I are driving home from werk and she
turns to me and says: "Ya know, I think it would be fun to try home brewing".
Well, I did a double take the likes of which even Itchy has never seen, eyballs
popping out and all. Yessiree, I swerved bigtime when I heard that one: think I
mightta ran a biker off the road, too. Heh heh. Apparently, Rache had been
talking about it to a co-werker of hers who homebrews, and she had also been
read-onlying this topic. 

	Later, we started to talk about it with our friend Wally, who has been
home brewing for around ten years, but since he moved to the east coast, hasn't
done much because of lack of motivation. So, to make a long story short, we
motivated him. :-O  The plan was we were going to observe him making beer and
then we were gonna drink it. I _liked_ that plan. 

	Wally's Wild Wheat Wort just smelled too tastey, so I started to order 
catalogs, read this topic again and batch extract by keyword from the Homebrew 
conference. As of last sunday, I had an equipment "wish" list started and 
our plan was to wait until we saw what furthur equipment we might want after 
we observed the bottling of Wallys beer, which we plan to do this saturday.

	Imagine my surprise, then, when I get a complete HB kit for my birthday 
yesterday! Can you say "Psyhced". Sure, I knew ya could.  :-)   :-)   :-)
So, instead of watching someone else homebrew this weekend, We'll be doing it 
ourselves.  Nothing fancy, just the India Pale Ale kit which came with my new 
kit.

Man, what a grate wife I have!

Fog

Yeah Fog, alright!  Aren't wives great? ;^)  I got MY homebrew kit from
Lydia on Christmas.  She'll probably regret it if the stout I'm aging now
explodes and black goop is dripping from the ceiling.

Right now my mind is processing the possibility of having a homebrew sampling
party at my house ... it would have to be cleared with afore-mentioned Wife,
of course ....  This party would be opened to Grateful non-Daves as well as
Grateful Daves alike.

Working ....

    let me know when all ya'lls wifys kick you out of the kitchen for
    boiling over. Of all the married homebrewers I know, I'm THE ONLY ONE
    that still brews in the family kitchen. Everyone eles has been banished
    to a burner or a separate stove separated from the kitchen. 
                               cheers!
                   rfb (with one dead burner on the stove already)
    
    India Pale Ale = high alcohol content, if the kit doesn't have
    finishing hops supplied, GET SOME!!

    
    Allright Fog!!!!!!  Welcome to world of homebrewing!!!  Prepare for an
    all-new obsession! ;^)  Did you get a "True Brew" kit?  I ask,
    because I got my first kit of ingredients with my stuff, too, and thats
    what it was called.  BTW, my only "undrinkable" batch was the one which
    came with my kit, because I got confused between what the kit
    directions said in contrast to what my very limited experience and
    study of homebrewing told me......even da ve wouldn't have been able to
    drink that stuff :^)
    
    Have fun,
    
    Hogan

I got the True Brew kit ... I thought Lydia bought the ingredients separately,
though.  

				OK!

Party Announcement!  Post-St.Patrick's Day and Homebrew Sampling party at my
place on March 21st!!  Homebrewers, bring your favorite brews of which other
partiers might partake.

Send mail for directions ....

- Dave

	"Wine is fine but get me another beer."

    
    
    rfb,
    
    I have an India Pale Ale thats a few weeks old now, and I'm hoping to
    bottle it next week.  Why is it a higher alcohol content than normal? 
    I used a can of M&F Amber Malt extract, DME, just like the recipe said. 
    The thing is, I still don't see where the extra "kick" will come from. 
    I used toasted malted barley....will this add strength?  I can't see
    where else the extra strength would come from....used the Palilia India
    Pale Ale recipe from "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing."
    
    Hogan
    
    PS: da ve, I can feel unpasteurized bliss at 9:36 AM, because of the
    wondrous nutional value that the previous night's homebrew has :^) :^) :^)

re: <<< Note 212.239 by CIM1NI::RUSSO >>>

    >I have an India Pale Ale thats a few weeks old now, and I'm hoping to
    >bottle it next week.  Why is it a higher alcohol content than normal? 
    
    Got me. I always thought alcohol content meant extra yeast poop and,
    just to put it into terms that the latest addition to Grateful's 
    homwbrewer's can understand, it is directly relational to...
    
    
    
    
    				 SUGAR! ;-) 
    
    
    
    Perhaps the resident experts can answer this but maybe pale ale yeasts
    metabolize just a little more.

    Usually India Pale ale is stronger than english pale ale 
     because it is normally brewed with much more malt...and contains much
    more hop oils as a natural preservative. for exampale the english pale
    ale 'kit" fro Williams contains 6lbs of malt extract and should be
    hopped with 43 IBU's...India pale ale kit comes with 7 lbs of malt
    extract and 49 IBU's of hops. When the English were conquering India
    they had to have thier beer, but it most always spoiled by the time it
    reached Inda, so up went the fermentables for higher alcohol and up
    went the hops for preservation.
    
    rfb , not a india pale ale fan although the Breckenridge Brewery makes
    a good one! (I'm not a hop head!)

    As I understand it, the alcohol comes from the sugar, which gets
    converted to alcohol under the influence of the yeast. So the more
    sugar you put in, the stronger the beer will be, as long as it all
    gets converted. There must be some kind of upper limit though.
    That's also why the specific gravity goes down as it ferments; as
    the sugar converts, the liquid gets "thinner" and lighter.

    ...Robert

    that's "fermentables", not sugar.....although sugar does make a good
    "prohibition" beer. Sugar is just one of many fermentables one can use
    in brew. Honey is another.
            rfb
    
    P.S.  FYI on mead...mead is made with honey...
    metheglin is mead with spices, cyser is mead with
    apples/juice, morat is mead with mulberries, hydromel is a watered down
    mead, sack mead is made with honey ONLY, pyment or clarre is grape
    mead, sack metheglin is a sweet spiced mead, and braggot is honey ale. 
    .....and sack-rasp is sack mead with raspberries in it!
    ( I made the last one up)

    By "sugar" I meant compounds that contain various types of soluable 
    sugars - fructose, dextrose, maltose, corn syrup, fruit, honey, etc. 
    I didn't actually mean "granulated sugar" of the Domino (tm) variety.

    ya ya I knew that Ger....it's just that i revel at the thought of
    contributing something technical in this file, esp. when reading some
    of the stuff from you tech-n0-weenies about how to discom-BOOB-ulate 
    C code into a steal yer face!%^)
                                             rfb

rfb,

I'm impressed.  Really (I'm obligated to say that because I'm not normally so
serious around here lately. ;-)

Out of curiosity, while we're talking about alcohol content, just what is the
range of alcohol content in homebrews vs. Euro-brews (real ones, not imported)
vs. Budweiser vs. Near-beer vs. that-shit-they-sell-in-funny-green-bottles-that-
says-it's-alcohol-free-but-I-don't-completely-believe-it-beer...  I mean I'm
a big fan of beer, overwhelmingly on the drinking side of the process though,
but I don't know how much alcohol by percent or proof is in the Labatts or
Sam Adams or Michelob or whatever-it-is-that-I'm-drinking-because-it-was-on-sale
beer...

?

tim

    
    Here's a list of beer strengths, posted from the Homebrew
    notesfile.....this should give you a good idea.
    
    Dave
    
    
            <<< DATABS::$255$DUA25:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOMEBREW.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -<   Home Brewers NotesFile   >-
================================================================================
Note 611.0              List of Comercial beer strength.              No replies
GIAMEM::RUSSELL "Lemming Management, Follow me!"    171 lines  16-OCT-1991 16:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here's something someone sent me that's interesting.
    
    C-,
               <<< STROKR::DISK2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CYCLES.NOTE;6 >>>
                         -< The NEW CYCLES Notesfile >-
================================================================================
Note 244.112                   Official Beer Note                     112 of 113
BROKE::HEGDE                                        160 lines  16-OCT-1991 09:54
                              -< beer statistics >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I just got this chart in the mail. Should be useful to resolve
    any "my beer is stronger than yours" arguments. Mods, if you 
    feel its a compilation of meaningless statistics, please feel free
    to delete it..
    
    
here's some important reading for beer drinkers.
this chart is sorted 2 ways - alphabetically and
by proof.
    

Brand                           Alcohol Content Proof
                                by      by
                                Weight  Volume
-----                           -----   ------  -----

Amstel Light                     2.90    3.63    7.25
Anchor Stearn Beer               3.58    4.48    8.95
Asahi Lager                      3.61    4.51    9.03
Bass & Co. Pale Ale              3.60    4.50    9.00
Beck's                           4.00    5.00   10.00
Black Label                      3.57    4.46    8.93
Black Label LA                   1.90    2.38    4.75
Budweiser                        3.73    4.66    9.33
Budweiser Light                  2.74    3.43    6.85
Busch                            3.72    4.65    9.30
Carlsberg                        3.39    4.92    9.84
Carlsberg Lager                  3.62    4.60    9.20
Colt 45 Malt Liquir              4.71    5.89   11.78
Coors                            3.61    4.51    9.03
Coors Light                      3.20    4.00    8.00
Dortmunder Union                 5.80    7.25   14.50
Dos Equis                        3.76    4.70    9.40
Dribeck's Light                  2.47    3.09    6.18
EKU Malt Liquor                  8.73   10.91   21.83
Elephant Malt Liquor             5.93    7.39   14.78
Geo Killian's Irish Red Ale      4.48    5.70   11.40
Golden Hawk Malt Liquor          5.16    6.45   12.90
Grizzly                          4.48    5.65   11.30
Guiness Gold Lager               3.34    4.24    8.48
Harley-Davidson Heavy Beer       4.12    5.15   10.30
Harp                             3.78    4.73    9.45
Heineken                         3.88    4.85    9.70
Hog Brew                         3.28    4.10    8.20
Labatt's 50 Ale                  3.97    4.96    9.93
Labatt's Pilsner Beer            3.83    4.79    9.58
Lone Star                        3.66    4.58    9.15
Lone Star Light                  2.79    3.49    6.98
Lowenbrau                        3.94    4.93    9.85
McEwan's Scotch Ale              3.59    4.48    8.96
Michelob                         3.96    4.95    9.90
Michelob Light                   3.32    4.15    8.30
Miller                           3.71    4.64    9.28
Miller Light                     3.35    4.19    8.38
Milwaukee's Best                 3.51    4.39    8.78
Milwaukee's Best Light           3.10    3.88    7.75
Molson Ale                       3.97    4.96    9.93
Moosehead                        3.91    4.89    9.78
Natural Light                    3.36    4.20    8.40
Olde Heurich Amber Lager         3.37    4.31    8.62
Olympia                          3.83    4.79    9.58
Olympia Light                    3.28    4.10    8.20
Pabst Blue Ribbon                3.76    4.70    9.40
Pabst Blue Ribbon Light          3.41    4.26    8.53
Pilsner Urquell                  3.34    4.18    8.35
Red, White and Blue              3.52    4.40    8.80
Rollng Rock                      3.75    4.69    9.38
St. Pauli Girl                   4.24    5.30   10.60
Samichlaus Bier                  9.16   11.80   23.60
Samuel Adams                     3.40    4.25    8.50
San Miguel Lager                 3.83    4.79    9.58
Schaefer                         3.52    4.40    8.80
Schlitz Malt Liquor              4.62    5.78   11.55
Schmidt's                        3.71    4.64    9.28
Schmidt's Light                  3.41    4.26    8.53
Schooner Doppelback              4.93    6.16   12.33
Stroh's                          3.64    4.55    9.10
Stroh's Light                    3.35    4.19    8.38
Stroh's Signature                3.91    4.89    9.78
Tuborg                           3.70    4.63    9.25
Whitbread Ale                     3.54    4.43    8.85
Young's London Ale               4.87    6.09   12.18


Proof	Alcohol	Content	Brand
	by	by
	Volume	Weight
-----	------	------	-----

23.60	11.80	9.16	Samichlaus Bier
21.83	10.91	8.73	EKU Malt Liquor
14.78	7.39	5.93	Elephant Malt Liquor
14.50	7.25	5.80	Dortmunder Union
12.90	6.45	5.16	Golden Hawk Malt Liquor
12.33	6.16	4.93	Schooner Doppelback
12.18	6.09	4.87	Young's London Ale
11.78	5.89	4.71	Colt 45 Malt Liquir
11.55	5.78	4.62	Schlitz Malt Liquor
11.40	5.70	4.48	Geo Killian's Irish Red Ale
11.30	5.65	4.48	Grizzly
10.60	5.30	4.24	St. Pauli Girl
10.30	5.15	4.12	Harley-Davidson Heavy Beer
10.00	5.00	4.00	Beck's
 9.93	4.96	3.97	Molson Ale
 9.93	4.96	3.97	Labatt's 50 Ale
 9.90	4.95	3.96	Michelob
 9.85	4.93	3.94	Lowenbrau
 9.84	4.92	3.39	Carlsberg
 9.78	4.89	3.91	Stroh's Signature
 9.78	4.89	3.91	Moosehead
 9.70	4.85	3.88	Heineken
 9.58	4.79	3.83	San Miguel Lager
 9.58	4.79	3.83	Olympia
 9.58	4.79	3.83	Labatt's Pilsner Beer
 9.45	4.73	3.78	Harp
 9.40	4.70	3.76	Pabst Blue Ribbon
 9.40	4.70	3.76	Dos Equis
 9.38	4.69	3.75	Rollng Rock
 9.33	4.66	3.73	Budweiser
 9.30	4.65	3.72	Busch
 9.28	4.64	3.71	Schmidt's
 9.28	4.64	3.71	Miller
 9.25	4.63	3.70	Tuborg
 9.20	4.60	3.62	Carlsberg Lager
 9.15	4.58	3.66	Lone Star
 9.10	4.55	3.64	Stroh's
 9.03	4.51	3.61	Coors
 9.03	4.51	3.61	Asahi Lager
 9.00	4.50	3.60	Bass & Co. Pale Ale
 8.96	4.48	3.59	McEwan's Scotch Ale
 8.95	4.48	3.58	Anchor Stearn Beer
 8.93	4.46	3.57	Black Label
 8.85	4.43	3.54	Whitbread Ale
 8.80	4.40	3.52	Schaefer
 8.80	4.40	3.52	Red, White and Blue
 8.78	4.39	3.51	Milwaukee's Best
 8.62	4.31	3.37	Olde Heurich Amber Lager
 8.53	4.26	3.41	Schmidt's Light
 8.53	4.26	3.41	Pabst Blue Ribbon Light
 8.50	4.25	3.40	Samuel Adams
 8.48	4.24	3.34	Guiness Gold Lager
 8.40	4.20	3.36	Natural Light
 8.38	4.19	3.35	Stroh's Light
 8.38	4.19	3.35	Miller Light
 8.35	4.18	3.34	Pilsner Urquell
 8.30	4.15	3.32	Michelob Light
 8.20	4.10	3.28	Olympia Light
 8.20	4.10	3.28	Hog Brew
 8.00	4.00	3.20	Coors Light
 7.75	3.88	3.10	Milwaukee's Best Light
 7.25	3.63	2.90	Amstel Light
 6.98	3.49	2.79	Lone Star Light
 6.85	3.43	2.74	Budweiser Light
 6.18	3.09	2.47	Dribeck's Light
 4.75	2.38	1.90	Black Label LA



                                                                 

    Tim, I'll send ya something about alcohol content in commercial brews I
    have stashed somewhere. As for homebrew alcohol strength, it's all in
    the amount of fermentables used. And one needs to know one end 
    from the other of a hydrometer...which I don't....to measure
    alcohol...I personnaly don't care what the % is...I'm after taste!!!! 
    
"brew it, bottle it, drink it!"

    Hogan beat me to it!!! Good man! %^)
                                        rfb

    re .247
    
    where's Heffenreffer's? Where's Magnum Malt liquor? Where's Hogan
    Malt Liquor?

    Also, remember that max alcohol varies by state.  Liek in NH, I think
    6% is the legal limit to call it beer, after that it must be labeled
    malt liquor, and some of the really potent stuff (Thomas Hardy's, Frank
    Jones Special Reserve) is sold only in the state stores.  Some really
    backwards states (like Utah) have a limit of 3%.
    
    Scott
    

	Well, I'm not sure if I wrote this in here already, but I have
bottled my first batch of homebrew.  Deb and I filled 51 bottles, 3 which
were th 16oz Guinness bottles.  Fun operation, rather messy, since I do
not have a bottler.  Nice sticky floor when all was said and done!

	So now the brew is kicking back and I will try it in about a week
and a half.  I'm very psyched and I'm hoping that it is going to come out
ok!  (fingers crossed!!!!).

	I may make my Irish Dark Ale (Lager?) tonight - we'll see though.
I am psyched to get another batch crankin' ... I got myself a 20qt stainless
steel boiling tank at Lechmere's for $25 (on a mega sale!)...

	I poured some brew in my hydrometer and it registered 4.5% ... which,
seems about average when comparing it against that huge list that Hogan 
posted.....................

	What effect does adding Oatmeal (quaker oats) have to the beer-making
process?

    About oatmeal - it adds body to the brew.  If you use it, you have to
    mash it since it's still in starch form.  So if you're not familiar yet
    with mashing, I wouldn't recommend ading it yet.   If you just dump
    unmashed oats in your brew you'll probably get a glop of cloudy starch.
    
    Partial mashes are relatively simple - all you need is a cooler, a big
    strainer and instructions (Charlie P's book describes the basics of an
    infusion mash).  Ignore all that stuff about protein rest for now.
    
    Scott_feeling_a_little_more_confident_about_mashing
    

	Thanks for that input Scott.  I would have most likely just thrown
the oatmeal in w/o mashing.  Someday, when I have the time (when I'm not
working!), I have to read that book.


	JC

	Last night I brewed up some Irish Dark Ale!  I really didn't feel
like going to a bar (Deb is not feeling well) so I said, "I'll relax and
do some brewin'".

	I used 4 lbs of Irish Dark Ale (malt extract) and 3 lbs of Laaglandar
(sp?) Dried malt (amber).  I also put in 4 teaspoons of honey.  Boiled up
2 gallons of H20 in my new stainless steel 20qt pot and added the ingredients
(before reaching a boil).  I let it cook for about 25 mins - Papazian says
between 15-30 mins, even if the recipe says no boil is needed.  Initially,
I let it cook w/out a cover, and later added the cover and kept a close eye
for spillage...  also, I stirred it often... deb did not really care for
the smell, but I personally like it a lot!

	I measured the specific gravity to be 1.044 - the instructions that
came with the kit said spec. grav should be 1.042 or so -- close enough!!!

	so now I have 5 gals of brew in my primary plastic fermenter; 5 gals
in bottles scheduled for consumption in about 1-1.5 wks!

	This Dark Ale is going to be pretty dark!!!!!!  mmmmmmmmmmmm

re: rfb

	Now I know where you get the "relax" stuff!  That Papazian book is
always saying RELAX RELAX RELAX !!! pretty funny... and, some of the pictures
say things like "note the empty mug of beer"  :-)

	I read through the beginner section... i'm ready for the next section
when time becomes available...............................

    re: oatmeal 
 I have a  recipe for Bluebeards Blueberry Oatmeal Stout I can send ya JC...
    YUMMY STUFF!! You do a "semi" mash with the oatmeal, but don't need a
    cooler or wort chiller or any of that silly stuff.
    
    re: Ded did not like the smell
    
    BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!
    
    That's the second best smell in the whole world, man!!!!
    What hops did ya use with yer dark??
    
    rfb who needs to bottle EDME Urquell and an Extra Pale P%$$Y ale
    (please excuse the nasty name of my beer) and wishes the raspberry mead
    would hurry up and ferment out
                                                         
    
    

re                     <<< Note 212.256 by CLOSUS::BARNES >>>
                                  -< hops?? >-

>    re: oatmeal 
>    I have a  recipe for Bluebeards Blueberry Oatmeal Stout I can send ya JC...
>    YUMMY STUFF!! You do a "semi" mash with the oatmeal, but don't need a
>    cooler or wort chiller or any of that silly stuff.
 
Ya-mon, could ya send that one to me?  I'd appreciate it.  I have not ventured
into the land of making stouts yet (hell, i'm only on my 2nd batch!) but I'd
like to make one next, perhaps.
   
>    That's the second best smell in the whole world, man!!!!

Ah,er, what is the first best smell? :-)

>    What hops did ya use with yer dark??
 
I did not use any hops.  THe malt extract claimed to be "hopped" - does that
mean anything?  What if I added more hops?  What is the effect?
   
JC

    JC, I will send the blueberry/Oatmeal stout recipe via mail, as well as
    my hopping method...the addition of bittering, flavoring, and aroma 
    hops make for a well rounded brew. 
    later
                              rfb

What's that smell like fish, oh baby,
 I really would like to know?
Now tell me, what's that smell like fish, pretty mama,
 I really would like to know?

That ain't good and baby that ain't fine,
 but it's the stuff that got you by,
So keep on truckin' mama,
 Truck my blues away....

		-Jorma

I was gonna say fish, too, but grady beat me to it!

AquacultureP

To quote Ted Nugent...

   Wang-Dang sweet....

Oh wait, this is a familty channel, eh?

:-)

Dave

>Oh wait, this is a familty channel, eh?

	So?  I've got a family.  What about it? ;-)

tj

    Is anyone interested in getting the homebrew digest?  It's sort of
    like a netnews conference, but it's just a digest and all submissions
    are done through mail.  The guy that circulates it can't really handle
    too many more requests (his employer is getting after him for using up
    so much network time) so he wants others to do additional circulations. 
    I'm willing to circulate a few around here.  There's only one digest
    per day.  They're up to #820-something now, and I have digests archived
    back to the high 400's.
    If anyone's interested in being added to the list, send me mail.
    
    Scott
    

	How big is the digest / day Scott?  I can';t handle anything to huge
right now (time consuming, that is; I have tons of disk space).

    I think the digestifier automatically keeps it to 40K or so per day, if
    for some reason there's more activity the extra postings are saved for
    the next day.  I can read through it in about 15 minutes on the
    average, depending on what's interesting.
    
    Every so often someone accumulates the recipes posted to it and makes a
    recipe book.  The latest one, "Cat's Meow", really came out nice. 
    There's a pointer to a VMS-based copy of it (inpostscript) somewhere in
    the homebrew notes.
    
    Scott
    

    as another public service....
    
           GEORGIA HOMEBREWERS NEED YER HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    HB62, a bill allowing head-of-household in GA. to make 50 gallons of
    homebrew per year, has made it thru the Ga. Rules Committee but is
    being "sat" on by the chair,  Mr. Nathan Dean. call Mr. Dean at
    404-656-5121 and voice your support of HB62. BE POSITIVE! even if you
    get the run-around (like I did) Urge him to get the bill before the
    assembly THIS SESSION.
    
    For the article and more info 
    see note 662.0 in HOMEBREW, originally from
    Jan Isley @ Brew Free or Die 
     
                                 rfb

    The US Government (for what it's worth) has allowed 100 gallons of brew
    for the head of the household and the best Georgia can do is 50? 
    Suppose it's better than nothing but I wonder why they didn't follow
    the rest of the country in what should be a national law anyway.
    The law also sys up to 200 gallons for households of 2 or more adults,
    but I doubt Ga. even included that.
    
    New Jersey is another weird state - you have to have a homebrew license
    but I doubt they sell too many.  Probably sell more of those than
    marijuana tax stamps tho.
    
    Scott
    

I just must be a citizen with an attitude, then.  I just assumed it was legal to
brew as much as you wanted to, without license or anything.  Of course, even if
I had been aware of the legal restrictions, I'm not sure it would have done much
more than distracted me slightly.

I have yet to look at doing this in earnest yet, but some day I'll find the time.
Seems like the rewards are self-evident, if not the legal rights!

tim

    I doubt there are any beer copy going around checking your annual
    volume.  It's just a guideline so they don't get tax-free commercial
    brewers.
    
    Scott, who brewed over 100 gallons in '90-91
    

    re 212.
    No, but in Utah, i think, a guy visited a brewer, said he wanted to
    learn how, and asked for acouple of bottles to share with friends..like
    a jerk the brewer complied. The state of Utah called him up  afew weeks
    later saying they'd analayzed his brew, found it to be 6% alcohol (Utah
    has 3.2 beer ONLY) and fined him, and warned him that 6% alcohol
    manufacturing of any kind in Utah was a jailable offense...gotta keep
    on yerr toes!!!
                   rfb

    I expect Utah will be the last state to even consider legalizing
    brewing. Still doesn't stop anyone from selling malt since it is
    basically sugar.
    
    I didn't brew as much this year, because my household went from 5
    adults to 1. Still within the legal limits, in case any revnooers have
    wiretapped this. :-)
    
    Distilling is still illegal - even freeze distilling like applejack. 
    But what if you make an honest mistake and leave some old cider sitting
    outside and it freezes?
    
    From what I've heard, there's big homebrew business in the states where
    it's illegal (Georgia, Utah and I think Alabama) since they're not
    selling anything illegal.  Most times the ATF doesn't even try to go
    after the homebrewers since they are no threat as long as they don't
    try to sell the stuff. People have been brewing longer than they've
    been making laws. Maybe brewing is the world's 3rd oldest profession?
    
    Scott
    

I can't believe brewing is illegal in some states!  That is ridiculous!

Anyways, I did bottle my second batch 8 days ago;  it is a dark irish ale
that did not do much during the fermentation stage.  my first batch is
tasting better with age;  

time to pick something else out to brew (maybe I'll do that oatmeal stout
rfb mentioned)

    Anyone have a good m�rzen recipe? I wanna brew some this weekend 
    before M�rzen is over. There's nothing in the homebrew notes that 
    I saw. Basically I'm looking for variations on the TNCJOH recipe. 

    I have a good one at home, a mostly-extract recipe.  I'll mail it to
    you tomorrow.  It calls for liquid "German ale" yeast.
    
    It's in the book "Winner's Circle" in case you have a copy of it.
    
    Scott
    

re:                      <<< Note 212.274 by SCOONR::GLADU >>>

>    Anyone have a good m�rzen recipe? I wanna brew some this weekend 
>    before M�rzen is over. There's nothing in the homebrew notes that 
>    I saw. Basically I'm looking for variations on the TNCJOH recipe. 

There's a recipe for marzenbier on page 26/27 of the Eckhardt book 
I gave you...

Ken

    How'bout a May Bock (Helles-type) recipe? What goes in a May Bock
    that isn't in the traditional bocks?

re:                      <<< Note 212.277 by SCOONR::GLADU >>>

>    How'bout a May Bock (Helles-type) recipe? What goes in a May Bock
>    that isn't in the traditional bocks?


	The Eckhardt book doesn't have Maibock listed.   It's got
	a "bock" listed containing:
	
		5# dry malt, light
		2.5# dark malt
		1/4# black patent
		...

	Also an "Einbocker" whatever that is:

		7.5# drymalt, light
		2# amber malt
		1# crystal malt
		.5# black patent

	The Einbocker looks like it might approach a heller type, though
	it may be darker.

	Have you tried homebrew digest ?

	Ken

    Nope, haven't tried homebrew digest. Prob'ly just going to
    make helles bock, wait 'til May, then drink it and call it
    Maibock. :-)

    Well, if yer gonna make a bock you better do it soon, because it has to
    lager for a while.  Got a lagering fridge?  If not you can do it in
    your cellar if it's cooler than room temps, and it will probably be
    done faster too.
    
    BTW, if you like Belgian beers, Ironmaster has a Belgian kit out.  I
    took one of those, a few lbs of dry malt, a pound of honey and some
    hops and it came out excellent.  I put it in an SCA competition in
    January and got a blue ribbon.  Judges said it was an excellent example
    of a Belgian trappist ale.
    
    Now I have an Old Pecilier-like batch I have to bottle real soon. 
    Finally get to use that black treacle I got last year.
    
    Scott
    

> What goes in a May Bock that isn't in the traditional bocks?

I think heller means light in color.   May Bock == Maibock
is a type of heller bock as far as I can tell.   So you want
a strong, malty light colored beer.  Bock I think means strong,
ie, use lots of malt.  I bought some Maibock once, Augusteiner 
Maibock I think was the brand name, and it said "Heller Bock" 
on the side as well.

So... if you have a recipe for a dark bock, I might try substituting
light for dark malts.

Ken

	Well, I'm just in here for a couple of notes... I'm getting far
behind again.

	Anyways, there is a new Brew Pub scheduled to open this April in
the Kenmore area.  I just read about it this morning in the Globe.  I forget
the name of it - but, they plan to seat something like 212 people, serve
food, and have 8 or so different brews on tap.  The place is going to have
all of the brew equipment exposed for "ambiance" - sounds like a good place!

	I'm going to make the Wise-Ass Red Bitter in the Papazain book.  I
was impressed by this beer that Dave Clark made!!!  Great taste, and more
filling then most american light trash, er, beer.....

	Peace all,
	jc

RE: New Brew Pub

YES!!  Sounds like a new pre-Red Sox game watering hole in the making!  Hope it 
opens in time for Opening Day!

Scott

    There's a new Cats Meow recipe book out...8 chapters of nothing but
    recipes, instructions and comments from the originator of said recipes.
    You can get it thru HOMEBREW notes or send me mail at CLOSUS::BARNES,
    we have it on a public system here and I can send it all in one mail
    message......lots a good recipes and some funny/wierd ones too!
                                                                   rfb

    all you foam heads out thar...check out my RASPCHERRY STOUT recipe in
    ::HOMEBREW!!!! One if my best!!!!!!
                                       rfb

    
    
    Sounds good!!!  I like stout, but I don't like mud.  Smooth and creamy
    is the way I like stout.
    
    But....I'm confused....how much roasted barley goes in that?  ;^)
    
    Hogan

    can ya tell I'd been brewin and had a few when I typed that recipe in
    Sunday???? %^) ...RASPcherry is NOT a creamy stout BTW, more of a tangy
    stout, the raspberries and cherries do that. For that creamy smooth
    type of stout, try the oatmeal recipe with NO fruit. The Cats Meow has
    some stout recipes with coffe and chocolate additives...hmmmmmmm.
    not to mention the recipe with RED HOTS added!!!    
    
    rfb

    
    Today makes it 4 weeks without a beer!!!
    
    I decided to give up alcohol for Lent.....not a big deal, except giving
    up the brewskies has been a drag at times....however, I have dropped a
    few pounds as a result. :^)
    
    On the bright side......when Lent is over, I'll have a full batch of
    ale 6 weeks in the bottle, and a full batch of stout 5 weeks in the
    bottle....both primed with DME :^)  Both smelled awfully good when I
    bottled them, too!!
    
    Hogan (2.5 weeks to go!)

    OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yer a better man that I am Hogan....glad i have my
    own religion!!!!!! %^) hang in there
                                        rfb

    
    Actually, I can't say its truly a Catholic thing for me to do this;
    I've never abstained from anything (on purpose :^) during Lent before. 
    Its really sort of an experiment, and a way to drop a few pounds, and
    the time frame for Lent sorta fit perfectly.
    
    The first day of Lent my brother came over with one of his homebrews,
    an Armenian Imperial Stout!!  Still sittin' in the fridge......
    
    Hogan

	I abstained from beer and all alcohol for about 5 weeks
	back in January, and it wasn't easy at times, though it was
	a nice change of pace.   I had a few Clausthalers (non alcohol
	brew) from Germany which I found to be the next best thing.
	Prostel, also from Germany, was far superior to any n/a beer,
	better than a lot of "real" beers.
 	
	I did lose some pounds, but the good thing is I'm still	
	losing pounds now, with brew ;-)    So far, 24 lbs!

	Ken

    
    >>        I abstained from beer and all alcohol for about 5 weeks
    >>        back in January, and it wasn't easy at times, though it was
    
    da ve "claims" to prefer abstaining in February, because its (normally)
    only 28 days!!! :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan
    
    PS:  Good job, Ken!!! :^)
    

    da ve isn't much of an "abstainer" anyways so if you're going to do
    without, you might as well do without for the least amount of time
    possible!  :^)
    
    
    				da ve_who_isn't_abstaining_from_anything_
    				right_now_but_is_"doing_without"_a_couple_
    				of_lifes_pleasures_these_days  :^)

I think Slash said he was going to give up some of the "good stuff" in life
for lent as well.  Perhaps he can tell us how he is doing :-) :-) :-)

I don't think I could give up brew.... i like it waaaay too much... i do
drink it in moderation though.

jc

    
    
    >>i like it waaaay too much...
    
    Thats why I chose it....it was a very clear choice.  You're supposed to
    give up something you REALLY like, and which would really suck to give
    up.  I obviously made the right choice :^)
    
    Hogan getting annoyed with this "vow" with 2 weeks to go

I gave up popcorn, for what it is worth.

 I gave up giving stuff up...





Jum

    	I gave up paying bills, now I got lots of money and I feel great !
    
    Chris

    	What's Lent? I thought it was the stuff you clean out of the drier
    screen before you start another load.
    
    :-)

      <<< PFEAST::NAPIER$TOOL4:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CLASSIFIED_ADS.NOTE;10041 >>>
             -< Welcome to C_A, Please READ THE RULES in Note 2.* >-
================================================================================
Note 8246.0                        beer system                        No replies
SVCRUS::LAPAN                                         8 lines   8-APR-1992 09:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                 FOR SALE DRAFT BEER SYSTEM
Portable draft beer system holds half or quarter keg . Pressure gauges
co2 tank and tapper are included. Can be picked up in Marlboro, Ma.
                $250.00 firm Its well worth it!
dtn 232-2596
svcrus::LaPan
home 485-5778 Larry LaPan

Bottled my wise-ass red bitter last night w/ no problems.  One question.

The book refers to original gravity and final gravity but makes not mention
as to when these measurements should be taken.

I'm assuming the orginal gravity = gravity when you've brewed and you're ready
to let it ferment.

Final gravity is the measurement taken when the beer is ready to drink.

Right?  Wrong?

    sorta JC....
    org grav is taken prior to pitching the yeast
    final grav is when you bottle..... certain styles depend on starting
    and final gravs inorder to really be in that "style"
    
    rfb (who has never used a hydrometer but has one and may not 
    know what he's talkin about which is nothing new and just brews 'em
    bottles 'em and drinks 'em)

    
    Yeah......what rfb said.....
    
    Hogan who also has a hydrometer but has yet to use it either but
    perceives that you would do it that way

    When I first started brewing I was taking the SG readings many times. 
    Now I do it 3 times: the first when it's cooled just before I pitch the
    yeast, second when I rack into secondary, third after I've primed it
    and ready to bottle.  I do it just for the record and to calculate the
    alcohol content if I feel like it.  You don't really need to do it to
    see if it's done fermenting, it's easier just to check the bubbles
    coming to the surface, when they're nearly stopped you can bottle.
    
    Just bottled a batch of imitation Old Peculier (borrowing some from a
    recipe in Dave Line's Brewijng Beers Like Those You Buy).  Some weird
    stuff in it: 2 lbs of brown sugar, some licorice extract, and primed
    with black treacle (thick sludge leftover from refining sugar, tastes a
    little like licorice and burnt sugar).  Next I may try to emulate
    Greene King's Abbot Ale, mainly because I like the name, also it's
    claimed to be one of the better British ales.
    
    BTW, I was window shopping in Cambridge this past weekend and found a
    really cool beer store: a gourmet food store on Harvard Square.  Lots
    of brews I've never seen, wide range of Belgian beers (trappistes,
    lambics, three types of Chimay), Russian beer, you name it.  A little
    pricey but you could buy single bottles.  It's across the street from
    the news stand, couple doors down from the Army-Navy store.
    
    Scott
    

	My second batch is now adequately conditioned (16 days); MAN O MAN is
it num num nummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmy!!!! I've dubbed it: On The Brew Bus Brew, and
will definitely repeat it many times; its a clear, golden hoppy ale, very
reminiscent in scent and color to Molson's Golden, but slightly more hop and
alchohol. This batch has truly made up for my abortive first batch, and
convinced me that this major time/$$ investment is a worth it all!

	There are definite off flavors in this brew, very minor, tho, but I'm
not sure whether its the water or it was the dry yeast I used: Only
experimentation will judge, and I promise, there'll be lots of that!. 

	Secondaried my third batch last night; it's my first attempt at a 
bitter: Smells pretty scary right now, actually, but so did #2 at this point.

re: <<< Note 212.305 by SPICE::PECKAR "Shadow skiing the apocalypse" >>>
    
    >Smells pretty scary right now, actually, but so did #2 at this point.

    Based on my experience, #2 *always* smells scary. ;-)
    

    
    
    :^) :^) :^)
    
    

    Phyliss,.. watch this space carefully,.. pun with numbers is a new
    concept for this file,. and one that I fear may catch on...
    
    							/police
    

 Well, /, you're 1 to talk :^)









 Jum

Toss 'em the b8, and they'll go 4 it every time!

    yahoo!!  give 'em what 4!!!!  :^)
    
    					da ve

 Lets deep six this stuff while I run to the 7 11 :^)





 Jum

    
    10-4 good buddy!
    
    		i'll 2nd that...
    
    					da ve

    
    Gee, seems like you guys have an infinite number of puns......2 bad.
    
    Hogan

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!
    
    Phyllis, oh aveneger of evil punsters,. please cast out these demon
    punsters!!!
    
    							/
    
    PS :-)
    

    THIS IS THE BEER NOTE!!!!!
    
    
    
                              %^)

    Is nothing sacred?
    

re: <<< Note 212.317 by CXDOCS::BARNES >>>

    >THIS IS THE BEER NOTE!!!!!
    
    Blame Fog. He's the one who said his beer smells like #2. :-)
    

    I'll bet he's gonna regret that 4 ever ...
    
    						... Bobbb
    

Speaking of beer I picked up some Sam Adams doublebock last night...whoo boy
that stuff is potent :-/





Jum

"Double double double your pleasure ... "  ;^)

One thing I discovered as a new homebrewer is that the period of time they
tell you to age the beer is the absolute minimum.  I guess that's kinda
obvious, but I've just been amazed at how much the taste of the beer improves
after another month or so of aging.

    Also, depending on the beer (lighter stuff like bitters) it starts to
    go downhill after a while, like 6 months or a year.  Others (stouts,
    brews with honey or strange spices) usually get way better after a
    year.  I know brewers who won't even open a bottle unless it's aged for
    6 months.  Of course you need enough older stuff on hand so you have
    something to drink while you're waiting.
    
    Jim, if you want something really potent, stop by the state liquor
    store and get some Frank Jones Special Reserve.  They can't sell it in
    grocery stores because the alcohol content is higher than the state
    allows for beer.
    
    Scott
    

RE:          <<< Note 212.324 by TLE::ABBOT "J. R. "Bob" Dobbs in 92" >>>

       
   > Jim, if you want something really potent, stop by the state liquor
   > store and get some Frank Jones Special Reserve.  They can't sell it in
   > grocery stores because the alcohol content is higher than the state
   > allows for beer.
    
    
    Hmm...I'll check that out.  I wasn't looking for potent, just something
    different and not knowing what doublebock was, I bought it..one bottle 
    kinda got a nice buzz going, so just to be sure I had another :^)


    Hey, what's the name of that store in Manchester that has a good selec
    tion of beer? (on Elm St?)




   Jum    

I limke using the hydrometer as just another data point.  I mean, I go through
the trouble of makin' the stuff, why not take 20 seconds to take a S.G.
reading?  Makes for interesting label information....

JC

re: <<< Note 212.326 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "JC doomsday clock: 11:58" >>>

>Makes for interesting label information....
    
    I think Fog's system makes much more interesting label information...
    
    			"Smells like #2"
    
    			"Tastes better than #1"
    
    - Gerry :-)

    I use that 20 seconds to open another beer......
                                                    rfb
    (my raspberry mead (7 lbs of honey, so it's alite mead %^) )
    is gettin good at 3 months...won't open another till 3 more months
    though)
    

    
    
    I'd also rather drink that beer than throw it out after making the
    reading :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan trying to keep his mind off drinking beer ;^)

RE:  Sam Adams Double Bock

A whole lot sweeter than I can handle for drinking more than one.  Drink one
and it's real nice. 

RE: store in Manch, NH.

North End Superette

Re: Frank Jones 

Hey Scott,  what liquor store has this?  Not ours.... :) or at least on my 
last trip in they didn't have it.  They did have a German "Bockbier" or 
somesuch.

And I tried some "Pete's Wicked Ale" and it's real good.  I also put a 
plug in here for "Yuenglings" which I bought at the North End Superette..
they claim to be the oldest brewery in the U.S (out pf something like
Pottsville PA :)

all this talk about beer....
bob

    re GerG
    
    	:-),... And not a word from Fog either :-) :-)
    
    re Mooster
    
    	Yah,.. great way to keep your mind off drinking beer,.. just keep
    reading these notes dood,.. you'll be fine! ;-)
    
    								/
    

Hey Hogan...



Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer 
Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer!

    The last liquor store I saw Frank Jones reserve at was the one down
    here on the DW highway.  Also saw it at the one near the Nashua Mall.
    
    Scott
    

Hey Fog...



ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH 
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH!

	If you think SA doublebock is potent, and it is more potent
	than yer regla beers, then try Chimay.  I think the gold (as
	opposed to the red and white versions) is like 10% or thereabouts.
	*VERY* strong and tasty stuff.

	Ken

    
    Anyone know where the HOMEBREW notesfile is these days?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Hogan

    still on PBSVAX, but moving to CLT the end of April.
                                                        rfb

My last two batches are really shaping up well! After only one week of
conditioning, my Burnt Bwana Bones Bitter and my Penolopi Pitstop Pils are
starting to taste rilly grate! 


Next week --  since this is the season of the wheat: Weeets-a-lot I.

    %^) <----(hic!)
                   rfb

    
    Drank my last Spring Pale Ale last night.......
    
    Got lots of brown ale left over, but I don't care for the taste too
    much.  I may actually be making a large donation to the "da ve fund"
    with the last case.....however, the stout is good (as is usually the
    case :^).
    
    Having just moved from Clinton to Boylston, I've noticed that the water
    is MUCH better tasting in Boylston.  I'm hoping that my first Boylston
    batch (a bitter) will reflect that.
    
    Inventory will be back down soon, time to BREW!!!!! :^)
    
    Hogan 
    

    But Hogan, you want yucky water for good beer.  The more minerals and
    salts and crap in the water (i.e. hard water) the more "authentic" your
    beer will be.  Case in point: "Coors Light" (brewed with that fresh
    rocky mountain spring water) vs Bass ale (brewed with water from the
    industrialized Trent river).
    
    But, if you have good water then you can adjust the mineral content to
    whatever style you're making.
    
    Scott
    

    :-/
    
    .. uh,.. bar tender,.. get me a Coors please :-/
    
    						/
    

	Golden Colorado is not only home to Coors beer but also
	the home of a former nuclear weapons facility that is 
	now a cleanup superfund case....

	Now thats what I call a f*ckin silver bullet

 I'm not sure the nucular thing is in Golden..close, but not right in the 
town..





Jum who can't remember the town.

I use spring-water-in-a-plastic-jug bought at the convenience store
across the street.  God knows what it really has in it, but it sure tastes
better than our tap water.

I brewed my first steam beer ... tastes great! (and filling!).  It was
a monthly recipe special at Jasper's in Hudson.  By the way, there's a
new homebrew store in Nashua ... "Mitch's Brew" ... more info about it in
the HOMEBREW notesfile.

-dc who can't afford a 2nd refrigerator and is looking forward to 
 brewing a lager this winter

	Hopefully upstream from Coors ;-)

	I wanted to write about this for ENV. science class but
	information about it is limited.....>:-|

    not to mention that Coors has had severl spills of nasty shit into
    Boulder creek, actually KILLING fish for several miles downstream
                                           rfb

    
    	Er,.. barftender,...
    
    	Get me an empty bucket please...
    
    							/
    

Speaking of new suppliers:  I checked out the new home brew supplier in 
Worcester on Dead Horse Hill (Chandler st); his prices were a bit high.

The guy in lancaster on Neck St is most relaxed: good prices, excellent 
selection of stuff, and free homebrews to boot!

Still, I've yet to find anything cheaper than Northeast brew supply mail order 
catelog in rhode Island...

    Dead Horse Hill in Worcester is NOT Chandler St...  DH Hill is Stafford
    St.  (i used to live there)...
    
    Chandler St is wherethe Living Earth is...
    
    					da ve

Right.

Scuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, da ve...

:-)

Re:         <<< Note 212.350 by JUNCO::DWEST "if wishes were horses..." >>>
>                               -< kerrekshun... >-

    
>    Chandler St is wherethe Living Earth is...
    
	right.  and for those of you who don't know The Living Earth is the
	"earthy-cruncy" grocery store where da ve and I happen to meet by
	chance one a month.  :-) 

    So let's hear some more about carboy disasters.  :^)  I'm careful, but
    the thought gives me chills!
    
    I waited a whole 2.5 days before trying batch #1.  It had barely
    started to clear, but it had some head and tasted ok.  It should be
    quite drinkable in a couple of weeks, though I'm not expecting much due
    to the corn sugar in it.
    
    Batch #2, a porter, is happily bubbling away.  The blow-off was
    impressive and quick, and I just put the ferementation lock on it last
    night.
    
    I'm going to do #3 next week, probably Carp Ale.  I need to get ahead
    so I can let some of this age.  My wife is anxiously awaiting the day
    that this hobby becomes teh promised "cheaper than store-bought."  :^)
    
    Are there any good places in the Worcester area to get bottles?  I
    don't think I can (or want to) kill 4 cases of Bud bar bottles in two
    weeks.  :*p
    
    Jamie 

	re Jamie:

>    Are there any good places in the Worcester area to get bottles?  I
>    don't think I can (or want to) kill 4 cases of Bud bar bottles in two
>    weeks.  :*p


	Well,.. not quite the Worcester area,.. but there are at least
	four cases of empties in my garage right now,.. free to a good
	home :-)

							/Soko

    Go to any package store that takes returns and buy a case for $1.20.

BTW - where is HOMEBREW nowadays???

Jamie, Besides Ger's suggestion, I reccomend cases of Knickerbocker. 24 16 oz'
brown returnanble bottles filled with the world's worst rice beer for $9.00 +
dep. at Julios in w'boro.  They come in nice sturdy boxes, too, and you can 
serve the bad beer to guests while you enjoy a HB...

:-)

I've also been finding Grolsh bottles easily at liquor stores, for ten cents
ea., but I've recently read the green glass is just as bad a clear as far as
protection from damaging light??? 

    re .356
    
    DATABS::HOMEBREW, press KP7.
    
    re .357
    
    _I_ treat my guests better than that...sniff.  Then again, wanna come
    over for 96 cold ones?  16 ozers would be nice, though.
    
    Jamie

    Green glass - feh.  Where do you usually store your beer?  If it's in
    cases in your cellar/garage/back room, you won't get any light damage. 
    Or in the fridge either - I think the light usually goes out when you
    close the door.  The slight amount of light it will get won't ruin the
    beer.  The only problem is in store cases, where it's exposed to
    hundreds of watts for the better part of a day.  Some people
    (Molson/Heiniken drinkers) actually like the skunky taste from light
    damage.
    
    Some of the best British beer is in clear glass and I've never had a
    bad one.
    
    With Grolsch bottles you just have to inspect all of the seals.  They
    tend to dry out after a while and I've had a spoiled beer due to a bad
    seal.  Replacements are cheap but the rubber isn't as good quality as
    the originals, they tend to crack after a few uses.
    
    If you really want brown glass, you could hunt around for the old brown
    Grolsch bottles, or some other German and French brands (Fischer for
    one).
    
    Scott
    

> Or in the fridge either - I think the light usually goes out when you
>    close the door. 

But how do you know??? :-)

Dave

Chill a videocamera!

Also, Guinness 16oz bottles are good too.  I have a few of 'em; wouldn't mind
having 100 of 'em!  For now, I use mostly sam adams bottles.  they work ok.

    Well, if y'er so worried about light damage, why not use cans ???
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    Is it the light damage that makes those Heiny's/Becks so skunky
    sometimes? (blech!)
    
    Good beer,.. but sometimes they really stink and I never could figure
    out why,..
    
    So If I go back into the cooler and get out an unpoened case,.. then
    there will be no light damage and ***NO*** skinks?!?!?,.. or just
    a much better chance of no skunks...
    
    							/eager_to_learn
    

    a brewer who has since left DEC used to note on "how to obtain that
    skunky smell" in homebrew. HE did some experimentation, setting both
    bottled and carbouyed beer in the sun. Unfortunately the
    experimentation took place in New England, where there is no sun! %^)
    
    just joshin rfb

re: trying to obtain that skunky smell

wrong drug!

we don need no steekin skunk beer!

had no idea I'd trip over so many homebrewers here in grateful...

just lettin' you all know I'm lurking, since my buddy Mystery Hill
keeps us informed about what a grate time you have...with all this
brewing activity, I can believe it.

Howdy, randy, t!ng, Mary...

DougO

    Hi DougO, welcome! 
    
    speaking of brewing and related activities...Patty and I got into a
    little spat this morning, cause she's been tripping (falling) over my
    bottles for a couple of weeks now, that are strewn all about her kitchen 
    See, I MEANT to bottle a dark last week, cleaned out (some by washing,
    some by slurping) a couple cases of Grolsches, and decided I was too
    lazy and kegged the batch in my Roto-keg.... and left the bottles
    everywhere. Hell, I knew I'd be brewing a batch soon and why put 50
    bottles away when I'd be needing them, in say, a couple of weeks?? 
    See the logic??? Patty didn't either...
    
    rfb

    re rfb
    	
    	poor Patty
    
    	Clean up those bottles ,... dammit!
    
    	:-)
    							/possible_future
    							homebrewer_once_
    							the_home_is_a_home
    							again
    

    went home for lunch today...all bottles were cleaned and in boxes..
    threats of nothing sweet until the boxes are stored under the house..
    but I might brew tonite or tomorrow! (course bottleing won't happen for
    10 days...) 
               rfb

From the Dave Barry calendar...

August 7th
----------
On Making Homemade Beer: Siphoning it into bottles is the tricky part, because 
what can happen is the phone rings and you get involved in a lengthy 
conversation during which your son, who is four and a half, gets hold of the
hose and spews premature beer all over himself, and you become the target of
an investigation by child welfare authorities because yours is the only child 
who comes to preschool smelling like a fraternity carpet.


August 8th and 9th
------------------
Many times at airport newsstands I have examined sportsperson-oriented 
magazines with names like *Tackle 'n' Bait*, and I have noted that the covers 
often feature pictures of bold sportspersons struggling to land extremely 
muscular, violent-looking fish the size of guest bathrooms, whose expressions 
say: "Yes, you had better kill me, Mr. Sportsperson, because otherwise I will 
evolve legs and lungs and talons and fangs and come to your suburban home and
wreck your riding mower and *have my way with your women hahahahahaha*.

>On Making Homemade Beer: Siphoning it into bottles is the tricky part, because 
>what can happen is the phone rings and you get involved in a lengthy 
>conversation during which your son, who is four and a half, gets hold of the
>hose and spews premature beer all over himself, and you become the target of
>an investigation by child welfare authorities because yours is the only child 
>who comes to preschool smelling like a fraternity carpet.

This is *TOO* true!!!!!  Unlike my brother, I do not have a bottling bucket.
When siphoning in to the bottles (alone...this is much a much easier 2-man
operation), I got a visit from my landlord (who made me promise I'd clean the
floor when done), and a long distance phone call from my mother......and
another phone call from a friend, who I know well enough to yell at :^)  I had
to re-siphon 4 or 5 times.....after waiting over 2 months to bottle this brew,
I was annoyed that I had all these interruptions during the 30 minute timeframe
that I chose to bottle......

And the beer was sub-par....

I guess the way to avoid this is to bottle at 3:00 AM :^)

Hogan who brewed a bitter ale 2 days ago.....

re                <<< Note 212.372 by AWECIM::RUSSO "claimin!" >>>

>floor when done), and a long distance phone call from my mother......and
>another phone call from a friend, who I know well enough to yell at :^)  I had

ah, that is what the answering machine is for... or, for those who don't like
'em, just let it ring....  now, the landlord knocking on the door is a little
bit harder to deal w/...


jc, who wants to start brewing again in Sept or early Oct. after all the
vacations are done w/

    
    
    	Hey Hogan...
    
    		Get an answering machine dammit!!!!
    
    		:-)
    
    							/
    

    
    
    >>Hey Hogan...Get an answering machine dammit!!!!
    
    NO!  :^)
    
    Hogan

    OK,.. go ahead,. be a Hogan!,.. see if we care!!!! 
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    						/the_Von_man
    

    
    
    i almost got him one as a wedding present...  decided against it cuz i
    figured he wouldn't use it!
    
    					da ve

Where do you get a Dave Barry Calendar??  I want one!  8-)

peace,
t!ng

    
    I've seen them in a couple of bookstores in Colorado, one of which I 
    know is a chain. Calendar sections are pretty common this time of 
    year, should be easy to find one. 
    
    :-Chuck

Just back from Portland. Man has that "big town" grown since my last visit
(1987)!!!!

Many many local micros now, all really good, too!

The Barley Mill Pub, which is part of the McMiniman's chain of brewpubs is
definitely worthy of special mention, since it has a Grateful Dead Theme. Real
psychadelic: lots of original mural and sculpture art and orig bay area 60's 
bands' posters. Definitely a must-see for any deadhead. Its on S.E. Hawthorne 
about 16? blocks in from the bridge....

re        <<< Note 212.380 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR "I second that electron" >>>

>The Barley Mill Pub, which is part of the McMiniman's chain of brewpubs is

Hey mon -  We went to 2 of these while in OR.  The one I went to on the OR
coast had several dead-things hanging on the wall - nothing "collectible" -
just regular, easy-to-get dead stuff.

GOOD BREW though.  I had the stout (they had some TM'd slogan to go w/ their
stout that is escaping me right now), a couple of their ales, and a couple
of their wheat brews.

good stuff.

>GOOD BREW though.  I had the stout (they had some TM'd slogan to go w/ their
>stout that is escaping me right now), a couple of their ales, and a couple
>of their wheat brews.

That would be the Terminator Stout, eh mon?  I didn't try that one cuz I'm not 
a stout-head, I tried most of the others, though. Ruby Tuesday was the balls!


fwiw, I think the chain is properly spelled McMenamens...

re        <<< Note 212.382 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR "I second that electron" >>>
                         -< Stout beer = stout belly >-

>That would be the Terminator Stout, eh mon?  I didn't try that one cuz I'm not 
>a stout-head, I tried most of the others, though. Ruby Tuesday was the balls!

You got it mon!  "Terminator Stout" is even trade-marked!  They had
terminator stout napkins, etc...

Yes, Ruby Tues. was also delectible.  Geez, if I lived out there, I could never
get rid of my belly!  Too much good beer.

Speaking of Brewpubs and stuff, i'm just wondering, how many folks would be
into going in to Cambridge one Thurs or Friday night to have dinner and brew
at the CBC ?

I think it would be a fun time to get 10-20 DECheads out for dinner, and brew.
The prices are fairly reasonable and the beer is good.  Oh ya, nearly forgot,
the food is good too !!

Maybe in September sometime when i return from europe....
/jc

    Sounds grate to me!  I'll be back from Colorado the 11th!
    
    :)sparky

re: brew and food

sounds good to me too :^)

- rich

I'd be up for it, too!  The CBC usually has a good band (usually reggae)
downstairs, and only 2 bucks to go down there!

adam

    Why not do it the 25th of September?  That WOULD have been the 1st 
    Boston Garden date. I'm thinking of getting together with some
    friends on the 26th to commiserate.  Should also be the date of the
    start of the 6th season of Trek (for all you TNG fans out there ;-) 
    so not ALL is lost.  Might be able to sneak away for CBC.
    
    PeterT
    

    Read in the Globe this morning that Sam Adams is going to bottle its
    cream stout (it's been available at a couple of Boston bars for a year
    or so).  They're going to keep the same label but make Sam Adams 50
    lbs. heavier!!  :^)  It's tasty stuff, imho.  They also wrote of a new
    brewpub (they called it a microbrewery, but I think they meant brewpub)
    opening soon in Cambridge.  That'd make four in Boston alone!
    
    I too have been thinking of a brewery outing.  The Sam Adams brewery
    tour is worth taking too, but skip the Boston Beer Co. (Harpoon).  The
    newest Boston brewpub, Boston Beer Works, has the neatest menu, but the
    beers (based on 1 visit) are pretty bland.  Commonwealth and Cambridge
    both serve excellent beers, but I think I'd rate Commonwealth's food
    better.  Cambridge's food was good, but microwaved every time I've been
    there (I like quick service, but 2 mins?!).
    
    Jamie

>  The newest Boston brewpub, Boston Beer Works, has the neatest menu, but the
>    beers (based on 1 visit) are pretty bland. 

I've been there a few times, and I really like their beers!  The Beantown Brown
(kinda like a nut-brown ale) is really good!  The Raspberry Ale I like, too!
Was there last Friday and had the Blueberry Ale for the 1st time...GRATE STUFF!
Yum! Yum! Yum!

My opinion is the beer at the Beer Works is better than the Commonwealth Brewery.
I've never been to the Cambridge Brewery so I can't compare there...

BTW is CBC "Cambridge..." or "Commonwealth..."?

Dave

    
    
    CBC = Cambridge Brewing Company
    
    I haven't been on any of the brew tours, but I've really been loving
    Harpoon Ale lately, particularly during these hot summer days....
    
    Psyched to hear about Sam Adams Creme Stout!!!
    
    I personally like the Commonwealth Brews better than the CBC, although
    they are all good.  Commonwealth's Bitter and Stout are awesome!
    
    Hogan

    I gave up on Harpoon due to inconsistency, an entire bad case of the
    Winter Warmer (after the previous year's was grate), and the lamest
    brewery tour I've ever been on.  Maybe it's time to give them another
    chance.
    
    I've only had the blueberry ale and weissbeer from BBW -- they'd just
    opened, so maybe they've improved.  They weren't bad, just somewhat
    bland.  I'll certainly give them another try.
    
    Both CBC and CBC :^) produce excellent brews.  My favorites are the
    bitter from Commonwealth and the porter from Cambridge.  Commonwealth
    has grate deals on bands -- $2 cover -- on Fridays and Saturdays.  $2
    cover is hard to beat in Boston.
    
    Bell and Hand (aka Balls in Hand), O'Doyle's, and Sunset Grill & Tap
    are my other favorite beer spots in and around the hub.
    
    Jamie

re                       <<< Note 212.392 by STUDIO::IDE >>>
                     -< all this talking and no drinking >-
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I wouldn't say that mon!  :-)  5 (or 6?) pints guinness plus 1 pint new
castle last night at the bull... and, these are the imperial pints.

anyways, back to the "outting" - 25-Sep might be cool for me - I may have to
be in NJ that w-end for a wedding reception, but, unclear at this point.

Brewed my first Porter last Sat night -- bubbling away...

Making plans for a Christmas Ale, but I think I'll be doing a Brown ale this
weekend to get the a good supply set up... 

NEone have a favorite Christmas Ale recipe???

Glenn

    re .394
    
    Yes, Anchor's annual Christmas ales.  Unfortunately, I don't know
    what's in them.
    
    I brewed a porter a few weeks ago, and it's a little disappointing
    'cause I was hoping for something like Catamount's, but it's not even
    close.  It's good, though.  My most recent was Carp ale, which is a
    Bass style pale ale.  This one's going to be grate, and ready in a
    hurry (it was quite drinkable at the bottling stage).  I may do this
    again soon since it won't last long.
    
    While in DC we visited a bar with 500 beers available!!  Some they were
    the only US importers of.  I especially liked the Schiedmantel
    weissbeir mit hefe.  You see, I'm drinking my way to a command of the
    German language.  I call it the Berlitzed method.
    
    Jamie

    
    
    Glenn, my brother and I brewed a good version of "Holiday Cheer" last
    year (its in Charles Papazian's book).
    
    Its somethig like this:
    
    	1 can light malt extract
    	1 lb honey
    	1 or 2 oz Cascade hops (boiling)
    	1 oz Saaz hops (finishing)
    	2 or 3 grated orange peels (RILLY!)
        1 teaspoon grated ginger root
    	2 teaspoons cinnamon
    	ale yeast
    
    I forget if we added crystal malt or not.....but this was a winner!!!
    
    We brewed it Oct 29 (I remember it was my mom's b-day), and bottled it
    3 weeks before Christmas.  Perfect timing!!!
    
    I'm pretty sure the recipe is in homebrew notes as well.....
    
    Hogan

    with brewmeister Hogan's help, we brewed our first batch tuesday nite!
    it's going to be a bitter carp-ish ale...  mostly cuz we were going to
    have this tiny bit of hops left over and i couldn't see any point to
    saving them so in they went! :^)  what the hell...  i like bitter
    beer...  :^)
    
    don't ask me what's in it though...  i forgot that by the next morning
    (evidently i was drinking too many stouts during the brewing process!)
    
    					da ve

    
    >>    don't ask me what's in it though...  i forgot that by the next
    
    What's in it, da ve?  :^) :^) :^)
    
    Hogan who knows ;^)

    >> it's going to be a bitter carp-ish ale...  mostly cuz we were going to
                                 ^^^^^^^^
    
    You put a carp in your beer, interesting, but it sounds fishy to me. ;-) 
    
    :-Chuck

    well, after all, it is supposed to be like BASS ale!  :^)
    
    					da ve

    So instead of stout, do you call it trout ???
    
    ... Bobbb
    

 With musical background provided by Salmon Dave :-)

    first came BASS, then came CARP.....SUCKER is next!!!
    rfb

It must take alot of mussels to hoist a beer like that!
Can a shrimp like Lisa drink it too?


Okay, I'll clam up now.

Dave (floundering)

What SPAWNED these puns?  They're great, I'm having a WHALE of a time ...

OK, I'm FINished now.

- D Sea

    
    more and more people are getting HOOKED!  falling for the BAIT
    every time...  :^)

    take it to the PUN note!!!!!!!! %^) and drink up!!!!
    rfb (whose trying to plan a brew this weekend, or tonite, but has no
    idea what he wants to brew!)

re:  Salmon Dave

This by far has to be the worst (or should I say best) pun I've
see in here :)

Salmon Dave,  Otis Herring,  Blues Traveler, Thelonius Monkfish, 
Perchy Faith what a show...

  

>>    rfb (whose trying to plan a brew this weekend, or tonite, but has no
>>    idea what he wants to brew!)

know whatcha mean, me too... Think I'll do an Ironmaster Brown - haven't done
one of these since I got on that Honey kick this past winter... 

BTW, my last couple honey brews came out kinda lousy, one batch is kinda
explosive/foam unless I put it in the freezer for a few minutes before opening,
and the other batch is just taking too damn long to taste really good - but I
keep drinking it NEway...! (It could have sonmething to do with the FIVE lbs of
honey I added to three lb of malt extract syrup and 1.5 lbs DME ;^)  --  Yes,
they do pack quite a punch! 

Glenn

    Just can't seem to scale back this run of puns
    

In the right mood, this shrimp can drink any beer!  I didn't hang out at a
fraternity in college for nothing!  :-) :-)

re   <<< Note 212.409 by ROADKL::INGALLS "Wish I was a Nomad, Indian or St." >>>

>(It could have sonmething to do with the FIVE lbs of
>honey I added to three lb of malt extract syrup and 1.5 lbs DME ;^)  --  Yes,
>they do pack quite a punch! 

Might be!  I brewed a bitter a while back and had to trash it because bottles
started exploding!!  I think I have 2 bottles left of the stuff - they are
in the fridge (cooling the brew seems to de-excite it).  I think I added
too much sugar right before bottling...

can't wait to start brewin' again - but, that means more working out to
keep the old body from gettin' too flabby!

/jc

re .411 LEDS::MRNGDU::YETTO

>In the right mood, this shrimp can drink any beer!  I didn't hang out at a
>fraternity in college for nothing!  :-) :-)

	No?,.. so how much did you have to pay them to let you hang out?

	:-) :-) :-)

						/Willy

Nothing.  It was their pleasure (no comments from you allowed Jamie!!)  ;^)

rfb, I'm planning on brewing 2nite, too.  here's my plan...


Sicne its too late for a wheat, and too early for an octoberfest beer, I'm 
brewing me up a beeg batch o' Wheatemberfest! 


:-)

    re .414
    
    Why would I comment on your reply which summed the deal up so
    succintly?  :^)
    
    
    I take back everything I said about my porter a few replies back.  It's
    taking a while to carbonate, but it's tasting most excellent right now. 
    More and more like the Catamount I love so much.
    
   re:<<< Note 212.409 by ROADKL::INGALLS "Wish I was a Nomad, Indian or St." >>>

>know whatcha mean, me too... Think I'll do an Ironmaster Brown - haven't done
    
    The porter was based on an Ironmaster kit, so if you're interested . .
    .
    
    1 can IM porter
    1 3.3# light extract or DME
    1/2# crushed choc. malt.
    1/2 oz. tettnanger hops (finishing)
    
    usual directions, steep the grain and put the hops in for the last min.
    or two of boil.
    
    Jamie

    jamie, 
    i always find that when a certain batch is just about freakin perfect,
    i have about 4 left.....
    rfb

Me too. I've got to get outta the habit of drinking pre-mature beer. How? By 
making more, of course!

Fog_whose_toying_with_the_idea_of_converting_that_old_water_heater_in_his_
basement_into_a_rilly_beeg_fermentation_vessel_:-)

Synchronicity: A guy I know, Paul, gave me his copy of Electric
Music for the Mind and Body, by Country Joe and the Fish.  I told
him I'd brew a beer for him, and he told me to call it "PAL ale"
(as opposed to pale ale) - his initials are PAL.

Well, I had forgotten that I picked up the ingredients for a
batch from Jasper's (in Hudson NH) ... one of their recipes, they
supply you with all the ingredients and instructions.  What did
they call the recipe?  "Paul's Courageous Ale."

Like wow, man.

OK, maybe you would be impressed too if you had as small a
cerebellum as me.

- DC

    >>  The newest Boston brewpub, Boston Beer Works, has the neatest menu,
    but the
    >>    beers (based on 1 visit) are pretty bland.
    
    >I've been there a few times, and I really like their beers!  The
    >Beantown Brown
    
    i agree; i think the boston beer works is pretty good; perhaps even
    better than commonwealth; only been to cbc once, so it's tought to
    offer a comparison opinion
    
    - rich
    

> OK, maybe you would be impressed too if you had as small a
> cerebellum as me.

C'mon, DC...You're cerebellum can't be *that* small... :-)
But, then again, your story impressed *me*... :-)

(little)Dave

Sunday's Brew activity:

Move my IM Porter to secondary, 
brewed a Geordie Mild Dark - NEone try this brand before??


Glenn

    Used to brew a bunch of Gordies Irish ales and Scotch Ales, Glenn,
    when I bought most of my stuff from Stoppels and Army Surplus. Haven't
    been able to mail-order that particular brand though. 
    I highly recommend Gordies! 
                               rfb

> While in DC we visited a bar with 500 beers available!!

must have been the Brickskeller

best beer selection I've ever seen anywhere; fun place to hang out, but not if
you're concerned about how much money you're spending (i was once there with a
large group and we ran up a bar bill around $300)

- rich

    alright, whose the deadheadbrewer bold enough to do 3 allgrain recipes!
    YIKES....guess you have some time and homebrews on hand, eh? 
    
    rfb, all grain brewer NOT!

    I'm not going to brew them all at once since I have only one primary
    fermenter.  Have lots of brew already on hand.  Actually I think I've
    had only 2 beers all week, haven't felt like having much.  Plus have 5
    gallons of porter already to bottle.
    
    Come to think of it the Xmas beer is partial extract so I'm doing 2
    all-grain batches.  One reason is I have almost 15lbs of pale malt that
    I have to use up before it goes bad.
    
    Scott
    

I feel like Steve Martin in The Jerk when the new phonebooks arrived:


The Octoberfest is here!!!!!  The octoberfest is here!!!!

Yum!

    
    
    I would appreciate it if all would refrain from referring to me as
    "The Jerk."  :-P
    
    I prefer "The Cool Dude." 
    
    
    Steve Martin
    

Yet another brew pub opens in Boston....

Question:  When is the Worceter area gonna get one?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


            <<< DATABS::$255$DUA25:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOMEBREW.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -<   Home Brewers NotesFile   >-
================================================================================
Note 738.0                   New Cambridge Brewpub
                      1 reply
MAST::DALY                                           26 lines   8-SEP-1992 11:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Harvard's Brewhouse, the Boston area's newest brewpub, opened about
a week ago in Harvard Square.   I visited it with some friends Saturday 
evening and sampled two of the first three beers available (the menu 
features about 6 beers, but a number of batches were still fermenting).
We tried the pale and brown ales (the third beer available was a light 
ale).  Both were somewhat dry and distinctively malty, and neither seemed 
to have much of a hop finish.   I really enjoyed the brown ale and look 
forward to when it becomes available cask-conditioned in the near future.
The atmosphere fits Harvard Square well, resembling an old basement
colonial tavern with dark panelled walls and a few oriental rugs and a 
long wood bar.  Copper kettles and tuns and stainless tanks sit behind a 
glass wall behind the length of the bar.  On one wall there are a bunch of 
stained glass church-like windows, but the faces of the saints have been 
replaced with more contemporary faces (like Richard Nixon, WC Fields, Joe
Namath, Humphrey Bogart and a woman that we couldn't figure out!).  Seems
like a fun place...check it out in a few weeks when their beer menu is
full.

The waitress told me that the owners are also in the process of building
another brewpub on Newbury street.   

I have the menu in my car...I'll post more info later. 


                                                    Cheers,
                                                      Jim 

            <<< DATABS::$255$DUA25:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOMEBREW.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -<   Home Brewers NotesFile   >-
================================================================================
Note 738.1                   New Cambridge Brewpub
                       1 of 1
MAST::DALY                                           32 lines   9-SEP-1992 11:04
                      -< John Harvard's Brew House Info >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Harvard's Brew House
33 Dunster Stret (Harvard Square)
Cambridge, MA 02138
(617)868-3585
Master Brewer: Timothy Morse

For out of towners visiting Massachusetts, this is the fourth brewpub in the
Greater Boston area.  It joins Commonwealth Brewery (North End, Boston), 
Boston Beer Works (Kenmore Square, Boston), and Cambridge Brewing Company 
(Kendall Square, Cambridge).  All are within a short walking distance of a T
stop.  DougO...time for a trip back this way?!

The beers (most still fermenting as of 9/6) include:

Lagers - Crystal Pilsner, Bockbier
Ales - New Town Light Ale, John Harvard's Pale Ale, Irish Export Stout
Seasonal Beers and Specials - Brown Ale the other night...

16 oz pint $3.00, 10 oz glass $2.25 and 60 oz pitchers $9.25

The menu ranges from traditional pub fare to nouveau, pretty much in the
medium price range.  Some examples...appetizers: Basket of Mushroom Fritters
$3.50, Neon Chic-On-A-Stick (chicken skewer with apricot, red pepper and 
ginger sauces) $3.75...burgers and sandwiches: The Britisher (burger, bacon 
and cheddar on an English muffin)$5.95, Chargrilled Boneless Chicken (with 
antipasto vegetables "trapped" in a crusty olive roll)$6.50...Dinner: Salmon
Filet (with zucchini, white beans and sundried tomatoes)$10.95, Old Fashioned
Chicken Pot Pie (with cucumber salad)$7.95...and the list goes on.  Haven't 
been in for food yet, so no review (although typing this is making me 
hungry!).

                                             -Jim-

I just moved to Framingham (near the Framingham/Southboro/Marlboro border) and
I'm wondering where the closest liquor store is that has a good selection of
brews.  (Good prices would be nice too.)  When I lived in Newton I shopped at
Marty's and was pretty satisfied.  I just need a store to tide me over until
I get the motivation to start brewing on my own.  (My former housemate started
brewing last year, and I'm already missing having homebrew around.)

- Rich

    Julio's in Westboro off of rt 9 gots lots o beer to choose from....plus
    a great wiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne selection......

    5th Ave Liquor on Rte. 9/ Rte. 30 (its between the two) has a pretty 
    good beer selection.  I used to drop in there a lot when I worked at
    Prime.  Right next to Newbury Comics and a bit west of the Natick 
    Mall.  Most of the time I had to bring my empties back there because
    no place else had that type! ;-)
    
    PeterT
    

The Wine Vault, in the shopping area that contains a KFC (near the intersection
of 126 and 30) has a good selection of 6-packs, plus a large selection of
single bottles of obscure beers.  They always have something on sale, like 4.99
Bass or 4.99 Dos Equis.  It's 2 blocks from my house, too :-)

adam_repeat_customer

    I bashed Harpoon some replies back, but also said that I'd give it
    another chance (I never hold a grudge against a beer).  I did, and it
    was quite good!  I had the ale; very different from when I last had it. 
    One of my problems with Harpoon was inconsistency, so more research is
    called for . . .
    
    I still don't believe they brew it completely in Boston, certainly not
    in the place they gave me a tour of.  It was just one room, a
    combination brewery and warehouse.  They had 2-3 bright beer tanks,
    pallets of cases, and forklifts running around.  No samples, either. 
    And they answered the question "how do you treat your water" with "we
    just get it from the Harbor and filter out the cigarette butts."
    
    Rilly!  :-)
    
    Jamie

	Where can I find some Sam Adams Wheat at this time of the 
	year?  I go away and come back to find all the Wheat
	has been replaced with Octoberfest :-/.

	Maybe I'll brew my own wheat for the winter. :-)

re:       <<< Note 212.434 by STUDIO::IDE "Can't this wait 'til I'm old?" >>>

>    I still don't believe they brew it completely in Boston, certainly not
>    in the place they gave me a tour of.  It was just one room, a

	Doesn't the bottle say something about a contract out to Utica NY 
	or someplace ?   fwiw, I'd take Sam Adams over Harpoon anyday...

>    And they answered the question "how do you treat your water" with "we
>    just get it from the Harbor and filter out the cigarette butts."
    
	;-)  Since they are in Boston they'd be getting their water from
	Quabbin, which is good water.  It's the old pipes that would be
	the problem I'd think.  Like lead.

	Ken

re .435

>	Where can I find some Sam Adams Wheat at this time of the 
>	year?  I go away and come back to find all the Wheat
>	has been replaced with Octoberfest :-/.

I think I saw this beer in a liquor store in a strip mall on Daniel Webster HW,
in Tyngsboro ... just over the state line going from NH to MA, after you pass
the Pheasant Lane mall, on the right.  The liquor store is next to a Kentucky
Fried Chicken, which is finger-licking good, indeed.

- DC

    
>	;-)  Since they are in Boston they'd be getting their water from
>	Quabbin, which is good water.  It's the old pipes that would be
>	the problem I'd think.  Like lead.

	ACtually, the pipes are concrete for the most part. I understand there 
are still sections of the aquaduct that are stone lined.  The pollution in 
Boston's water is mostly introduced by the feeders into the quabbin and the 
Wachusett resevoirs. Once the water gets to Boston, however, most of the major 
conduits are iron. Lead pipes were mostly used only in smaller diameter pipes, 
like feeders from a street line into an individual house. Thats my 
understanding, at least.

	The water from the quabbin is, for the most part, good water, but
before it gets to boston, it all gets mixed up with water from the Wachusett
watersheds, which is not good. The Wachusett resevior sits on top of an old
city, for one thing, and most of the towns in the watershed don't even have
sewer systems, so the water is blechie. The MWRA wants to blame the high
bacteria counts on the few dozen sea gulls that live there when the real
culprit is hundreds of aging septic systems within 100 feet of a feeder to this
resevior (like mine).  Oh yeah, forgot to mention. On top of the old pollution
from before the resevior was built and the new pollution from all the old
failing septic systems around, West Boylston's town dump lies less than 100
feet form the shore of the resevior. It did close last year, but it will be a
source of pollution for another hundred years at least. Blechie squared. 

	Heres the real stumper: Why does the MRWA say that this water is just
fine for drinking, yet there are signs posted that say don't eat much of the
fish because it contains high levels of heavy metals?

p.s...

	Wheat Beer from Sam Adams is one of their seasonals, so it shouldn't be 
on the shelves much longer.

Also, I discovered a fun little liquor store in West Concord center which 
carries a dizzying array of microbrewery selections from all over. They also 
carry homebrew supplies, but there prices are wasy high on that stuff. I forgot 
the name of the place, but it the one that's in the little mini-strip just west 
of the train stop there.

re Fog

>	Heres the real stumper: Why does the MRWA say that this water is just
>fine for drinking, yet there are signs posted that say don't eat much of the
>fish because it contains high levels of heavy metals?

Maybe the heavy metal content accumulates in the fish to toxic levels over
a period of time, but isn't at a toxic level (supposedly) in the usual
concentrations in the water?

Just a WAG!  

-dc

re- WHEAT West concord????? wow! I live less than a mile from there.
	  Was it near a White-Hen-Pantry???  I am going to call that place
	  near Nashua too.




re- dc and fog - dc is right

	This has nothing to do with Beer but oh well:

	"Biomagnification" brought on by the various levels of the food
	chains through Bioaccumulation. Microscopic plankton bioaccumulate 
	the metals throughout their feeding process, then small fish feed 
	on the lots of the plankton with their metals, then the larger fish 
	feed lots of the smaller fish and by this time the larger fish 
	has bioaccumulated a shitload of PCB's, metals, and whatever 
	else is present in the aquatic ecosystem.  You would have to 
	drink a few tons of that water to even come close to what one 
	fish has been exposed to.

I saw some Sam Adams Wheat at the Purity Supreme near ZKO yesterday.  Picked
up a case of Octoberfest while I was there!

Yum.

tim

 Saw some Wheat at Market Basket in Londonderry last week.






 Jum

    just a nit for the politically concerned beer drinker.....Sam Adams
    brewery owners are BIG contributors to Bush and were to Reagan.....
    just so ya know where some of the profits go.....
    
    Adolph Coors (also a republican) was a little pissed when he attended a
    fund raiser for George, put on by the owners of SA, 
    
    
    rfb(who had a SA ale last nite....but sent 10 bucks to Beer Drinkers Of
    America to ease his conscience)

Bummer. Just when I had pretty much settled on SA as my last resort for when I 
have no homebrews to drink....

It does give me solace, however to know that the profits they take on the 
boston-brewed SA are much lower tan those they take on the PA-brewed SA, 
however.

    errr, some of my reply in .444 is missing....
    
    Adolph Coors (also a republican) was a little pissed when he attended a
    fund raiser for GB, put on by the owners of SA, AND THERE WAS NO COORS
    THERE, ONLY SA. 
    
    there.....
    rfb (who prefers SA to Coors, except maybe when handling guns and
    chainsaws)

    
    Harpoon is bottled in Utica NY...all the stuff that is brewed in Boston
    goes into kegs and is distributed locally.
    
    I easily prefer Harpoon to SA.....if you haven't had a Harpoon lately,
    its worth another taste.  I believe it is improved.
    
    I've also heard that Sam Adams (Boston Beer company) was (or is) sueing
    "Boston Beer Works" for having a name similar to theirs.  They felt that
    the name of the brewpub would lead people to believe that it was a Sam
    Adams brewpub, when it wasn't.  Don't know if they continued with the
    lawsuit.
    
    Overall, I'm just not that impressed with Sam Adams.....its great beer
    and all, but there are other microbrews that I prefer, and because they
    seem less "established" I prefer them even more.  And although the
    seasonal beers are good, none of them (wheat, Oktoberfest, Double Bock)
    stand up well to the standards (IMHO :^) to which they are trying to reach.
    
    FWIW - my favorites for these styles of beer:
    
    	Wheat - Wurzburger Julius Echter Weissbier
    	Oktoberfest - Spaten or Hacker Pschorr
    	Double Bock - Ayinger Celebrator Dopplebock
    
    But hey......you gotta give them credit for making all these different
    styles of brew, thats way cool!
    
    Just being a beer snob :^)
    
    Hogan

	I like Catamont "gold" for the "MALT!!" (Killington with 
	daveW and Fog :-) 

	still my favorite style of brew is "WHEAT!!!!", would like to try
	the alternatives to SA listed in .447 as long as they can be found
	locally.	

    re .-1
    
    Based on my tour, it's not even brewed there, unless there was a secret
    brewhaus they didn't show us.  I just saw kegging equipment and
    warehouse space.
    
    It's definitely improved, it's a nice hoppy pale ale, similar to what's
    now bubbling in my kitchen.  :-)  Sam Adam's lager has changed a lot
    over the years too -- it's lost that soapy aftertaste it used to have.
    
    They're going to start bottling their stout (it's been on tap for a
    year or so) and the label will sport a new picture of SA hisself -- 50
    pounds heavier!!
    
    Republicans, Democrats, LaRouchies, they all taste good to me.  :-)
    
    Jamie

    
    
    re .448
    
    >> the alternatives to SA listed in .447 as long as they can be found
    
    You can usually find Julios Echer in stores, or Spaten or Hacker
    Pschorr Weissbeir (they come in pint bottles).
    
    Hogan not a big wheat ber fan but likes it occasionally

Pick a beer, ANY beer that you like and ask your local supplier to stock it. 
YOU are THEIR customer, and they can have ANY beer you ask for supplied to 
them.  You'd be surprised how well this works, especially when you theaten to 
take your hard earned bux somewhere else!

re: a while back...

so, whatever happened to the idea of a GRATEFUL beer outing?

anyone still up for it?  (although I'm not too keen on the original suggested
date of Sept 25; we're tentatively having a housewarming party then; and yes,
you'll all be invited...)

how about this weekend?  (Sept 18 or 19)

- rich

    Sam Adams is good but very over-hyped.  I've never seen any brewery
    (other than the biggies) pat themselves on the back so much.
    
    I admit, the rare times that I buy beer in the store, at least with
    Sammy being so common you don't have to settle for commercial sludge,
    so I buy it more often than about anything else.  Catamount is great,
    but it comes in twist-off bottles and the homebrewer in me wants the
    pop-top bottles.  Anyone tried Frank Jones ale lately?  It's finally
    brewed in New Hampshire, wonder how it compares to the old Catamount
    contract brew.  Finally, Anchor Steam is available in the local stores. 
    I think it's one of the best, if not *the* best, American brew.
    
    BTW, Harpoon makes the best Christmas beer.  The other breweries just
    make a maltier or hoppier brew.  Harpoon adds spices!
    
    Scott
    

I think Harpoon is a good beer, but definitely prefer Sam Adams (was
he a Republican BTW?).  Too bad about the political affiliation, but I
don't like to mix politics with my beer.  If only good German brau was 
cheaper... I'd drink that instead.  And if only Sam Adams was cheaper,
I'd drink that instead of Golden Anniversary, my "table" beer (ie, cheap
but decent).

What I don't like about Harpoon is the particular yeast flavor it has.

Which is also why I can't stand wheat beer.  It reminds me of homebrew
gone bad, as in wild yeast flavors.  I was amazed that on Sam Adams Wheat
beer, it confirmed this yeasty flavor, calling the flavor "cloves",
which it certainly has. 

re: <<< Note 212.447 by AWECIM::RUSSO "claimin!" >>>

>    FWIW - my favorites for these styles of beer:
>    
>    	Wheat - Wurzburger Julius Echter Weissbier
>    	Oktoberfest - Spaten or Hacker Pschorr
>    	Double Bock - Ayinger Celebrator Dopplebock
    
Beer snob or whatever, that's some *great* brew you have listed.
Though I'll take Spaten Dopplebock over the Ayinger.  However,
I'd take an Ayinger Maibock *anytime* ;-)

Gee, no stout listed.  I wonder what that would be ;-)

Ken

    re .-1
    
    You definitely wouldn't like Berliner Weizenbier -- they roll the
    bottles to mix the sediment in (mit hefe) then add raspberry or
    woodruff syrup.  I've even heard that some beerhalls have yeast
    dispensers for extra tang!  Clove ester is definitely a requirement for
    wheat beers.
    
    re:      <<< Note 212.453 by TLE::ABBOT "J. R. "Bob" Dobbs in 92" >>>

    >Sam Adams is good but very over-hyped.  I've never seen any brewery
    >(other than the biggies) pat themselves on the back so much.
    
    What about Bud?  First they advertise no taste (dry beer), now they're
    touting their rice!
    
    Jim Koch does get tiresome, but they deserve some slack for
    spearheading the current beer revival.
    
    >BTW, Harpoon makes the best Christmas beer.  The other breweries just
    >make a maltier or hoppier brew.  Harpoon adds spices!
    
    That's what soured me on Harpoon -- I bought a whole case of flat
    Winter Warmer (I'd loved it the previous year).  I know, I should've
    returned it.  Anchor's is good too, maybe better.
    
    Jamie

    
    Speaking of Ayinger.....
    
    The other day I had an Ayinger "Altbairisch Dunkel", which is most
    definitely a great dark beer.  My question is:
    
    Lager or Ale?  Everything was written in German on teh bottle.... I'm
    pretty sure that "alt" is the German word for "ale", but German darks
    are traditionally lagers.....it left me confused.....howevr, my taste
    buds were NOT confused!!! :^) :^) :^)
    
    Harpoon's taste definitely lies with its yeast......
    
    I *LOVE* Frank Jones India Pale Ale!  Don't know if the stuff I had a
    couple months ago was brewed in NH or not.....I think it was brewed at
    Catamount.  I tried a Commonwealth Burton Ale that was brewed and
    bottled at Catamount (I could tell by the bottle before I even read
    where it was bottled).....it was ok, not as good as the stuff on tap
    in Boston.
    
    And my favorite stout?  Well.....thats a secret :^)
    
    Hogan ;^)

    alt is german for old...so altbairisch means "old bavarian"
    and dunkel means "dark"...so I would guess Old Bavarian Dark is an ale. 
    
    rfb (ich bien ein bratwurst)

	I love WHEAT!!! and it's by far me favorite beer, ever 
	since my girlfriends brother turned me on to it.  He 
	has been microbrewing for ages and is now a full time brewer
	for "Old Depot" out of Iowa.  I beg him every time I 
	get to speak to him to send out a sample of the latest
	WHEAT!!!

    ya'll realize of course that wheat beer was invented 
    FOR GURLS!!!!!!!!!!! (as Calvin would say)
    
    rfb (spinning around in his office chair as fast as he can 
    to obtain a cheap buzz)

 >>   ya'll realize of course that wheat beer was invented 
 >>   FOR GURLS!!!!!!!!!!! (as Calvin would say)
    
  huh?

    I like that oatmeal Stout in those 22oz bottles at Julios...Hogan know
    what Im talkin'bout...and the Holiday one is wonderful !
    
    Chris_Budman_but_loves_a_good_dark_brew_from_time_to_time

    to answer the HUH?
    
    if memory serves me right (which it may not) wheat beers were made 
    in early bavaria for the women whose job it was to pick the hops in
    fall etc. men drank stouts.... 
    
    Calvin discovered a wierd organism as Spaceman Spiff called a GURL...
    (what's her name in the comic strip???)
    
    I may be all wet on the first one....but I know i'm correct on the
    second! %^)
    
    rfb (dizzy now)

well, i'm back from europe.  my stomach has seen better days (airline food
killed it) and i don't feel that well...

anways, lots of brew was consumed.  all sorts of wiess brew - dark and light.
also, some lagers.  the brew in germany is superior to the brew in austria...
austria had this one "budweiser-type" brew called Zipfer.  it was mediocre
at best..... we went on a brew tour of the Zipfer company and didn't understand
a word of it  (all in german) ... but, we had 4 hrs of drinking free brew 
after the tour, along with a light lunch.  tour costed nothing.

/jc, beered-out for now!

re-2
	hmmm, thats interesting, I've always thought women have 
	pretty good taste. :-)

	as far as the WHEAT!!!! goes, I found some, but I can't 	
	touch it til Saturday night! :-)

    Re:  JC beered out for now
    
    I don't believe it for a second!
    
    c_i

    
    wheat beer is by definition very weak in the hops used......as a
    result, the beer is usually on the sweet side.....that explains why you
    also like Catamount Gold, which to me seemed a bit to sweet.
    
    Chris is talking about Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout.....
    
    Ahhhhhh...... :^)
    
    Hogan

    THATS IT !

Well, _my_ wimman's got good taste.   :-)   :-)   :-)

    Patty prefers the Breckinridge wheat, too.....(typical gurl!) %^)
    
    I prefer to mix the Breck oatmeal stout and avalanche ale into different 
    concoctions, and after my water pump in my city car blew this morning,
    I feel like having one RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
    
    rfb (no friend of wheat)

Help...  I have tried to read every entry in this note, but I am only a drinker
and not a brewer, so it gets a little ...um.."specialized" for me. :-)  Now,
of course, I need help.

A good friend of ours has just finished bottling and sharing his first two
batches of home brewed beer.  (BTW, it came out very well!)  As Christmas
is coming, Mike and I would like to find a gift that would 1.) be useful to him,
2.) help him in his continuing efforts, and 3.) show that we are people of great
imagination and good taste!  (No, no, forget all that....we just want more of
his GRATE beer.)

Anyway, any gift suggestions for a new home brewer?  Price range should be
< $40 if possible.

Thanks for your help :-):-)

-jer

>Anyway, any gift suggestions for a new home brewer?  Price range should be
>< $40 if possible.

Kits!  You should be able to get two of 'em for forty bucks

re                     <<< Note 212.471 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR >>>
                                   -< easy >-

>Kits!  You should be able to get two of 'em for forty bucks

I second this!  Great gift.

    On the cheap end, I'd get him a jet bottle sprayer.  ~$12, plus
    whatever adaptor he needs to connect to his faucet.  Makes bottle
    and carboy washing a whole lot easier.
    
    A bound copy of The Cat's Meow, a collection of beer recipes off the
    net.  Cost: paper plus your own Postscript printer 'cause you wouldn't
    dream of printing it at work.
    
    Jamie

	A gift certificate to a place where they sell supplies

Does anyone know where I might go in the Boston Metro area to get kegs of
good local and/or imported beers?

- jeff

re<<< Note 212.475 by SUBPAC::MAGGARD "Getting it clearly through alternate paths." >>>
                            -< beerless and bummin >-


>Does anyone know where I might go in the Boston Metro area to get kegs of
>good local and/or imported beers?

Cambridge Brewing Company in Kendall square.  I've purchased kegs from them in
the past - 1/4 barrel of pale ale was about $42 or so, if I remember right.
This is local brew.

/jc

I had the pleasure of sampling two Cambridge Brewing Co micro-kegs last weekend
at a friends party; I was unimpressed. While the beer was by far better than
any other commercial brand beer, I found the Amber Ale batch I had was a bit
underconditioned and the wheat beer was underhopped and undergrained; in a
word, watery. 

Again, though, in general a much better bet than Buschamiller or MichaCoors.

    
    
    
    >> found the Amber Ale batch I had was a bit underconditioned
    
    Hah!!!!
    
    Guess how long Cambridge Brewing waits between making the brew and
    serving the brew?!?
    
    *4* days.
    
    Hogan

Wow, guess there _is_ accounting for taste around here...   :-)

re: alt.   A homebrewing friend of mine recently made a keg of german alt
	   for a party we had.  According to him, alt means ALE in german.
	   It was a german-style recipe that used an ale yeast... 

re: CBC _Microkegs_

	   Any more info on this ?   How large is a microkeg ?   It is
	   take home material ????  


	   Ken

re         <<< Note 212.480 by MONTOR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>

>re: CBC _Microkegs_
>
>	   Any more info on this ?   How large is a microkeg ?   It is
>	   take home material ????  

well, the one i got was 7 gallons i think.  depending on your appetite for
brew, i guess this _could_ be considered take home.

:-)

re:"             <<< Note 212.481 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "Roll me away" >>>

>re: CBC _Microkegs_
> well, the one i got was 7 gallons i think.  depending on your appetite for
> brew, i guess this _could_ be considered take home.


	They've been around for a long time.  Microkegs seem to imply
	something in the order of a 5 liter keg, like those yummy German
	mini-micro kegs (not all are great, my fav is Warsteiner Pils, 
	followed by Reichelbrau Kulmbacher).

re: ALT again

	Heard back from my friend, and rfb is right.  The response I got was:

- I think he's right, but when used wrt. beer, it means "old style", which
- is an ale, lagers being a newer style.

	Ken

re:                     <<< Note 212.477 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR >>>

>I had the pleasure of sampling two Cambridge Brewing Co micro-kegs last weekend
>at a friends party; I was unimpressed. While the beer was by far better than
>any other commercial brand beer, I found the Amber Ale batch I had was a bit
>underconditioned and the wheat beer was underhopped and undergrained; in a
>word, watery. 
    
    Don't listen to him!  I know for a fact that he stocks his fridge with
    Knickerbocker!!
    
    Cambridge (or was it Commonwealth?) has a new bottled beer: Boston's
    Burton Ale, or something like that.  A Bass style pale ale brewed by
    Catamount under contract.
    
    Jamie

    
    Cambridge Brewing sells quarter kegs.....
    
    A friend of mine and I got one a few months back......before we started
    drinking, we bottled a case and a half of it.....then drank the rest
    with the help of da ve :^)  We left as little headroom in the bottles
    as possible, and they were good long enough for us to finsh them all up
    (about a week).
    
    If you have a bottle capper, you have a way to avoid the "drink it all
    or lose it" situation!! :^)
    
    Yeah, I tried on of those Burton Ales last week.....brewed by
    Commonwealth.  Not bad

    While at our favorite inn in NH this past weekend for our anniversary,
    I tried Catamount Amber.  Extremely good!!  Never had the gold, - I bet
    that's good.  Gotta find me some more Catamount.
    
    dave

    Catamount amber is darker and maltier than the gold. Depending on your
    preference (do you like Rolling Rock? or Guinness?) you'd like the gold
    only if you prefer a lighter beer.  Catamount porter is my favorite
    brew of theirs.
    
    If you ever get up near White River Jct, plan a visit to Catamount.
    It's a real homey kind of place and really interesting to see such a
    small brewery up close (they have *one* brew kettle! and a bottling
    line from the 50's that does like 60 bottles a minute)
    
    Scott
                                                         

 A second for Catamount Porter...






 Jum

    Believe it or not . . . 
    
    Guinness Stout, as served draught in Ireland, is only about 3% alcohol.
    
    Has anyone found the N2 charged draught cans around Mass.?
    
    Jamie

re       <<< Note 212.488 by STUDIO::IDE "Can't this wait 'til I'm old?" >>>

>    Guinness Stout, as served draught in Ireland, is only about 3% alcohol.

	... and the reason why is taxation.  in ireland, the more alc. in
	your brew, the more you have to pay taxes on it.  this is why 
	irish folks say they cxan put away 8 pints in one night!!!  bring 'em
	to germany and 8 becomes 4 quickly!!
    
>    Has anyone found the N2 charged draught cans around Mass.?
 
i think, but i ain't sure, that a friend of mine found them in washingon dc
area.

jc, who has a stash of 'em from ireland.

    
    I've kept my eyes open for Guinness draft cans, but haven't seen them.
    
    They're available in Washington, Chicago, and San Francisco......this
    "test marketing" in these areas exclusively has gone on for a year now,
    and its about time they distributed it to everyone, DAMMITT!!!!!!!
    
    Hogan who pounded lots of tasty low alcohol guinness in Ireland :^)

    Likewise. The only ones I've seen have been smuggled across state lines
    by friends coming back from DC. Not only are they neat gadgets, but the
    contents are good too!
    
    gary

the contents of the nitrous guinness cans is very authentic to the taste of
guinness in ireland, as i recall.  indeed good stuff, but E X P E N S I V E!!

    
    Anyone want a bunch of Grolsch swing top 16 oz bottles?
    
    I have a bunch of them that my brother gave me.  I prefer capping all
    my bottles, so I'll give them away to anyone who wants them.
    
    Let me know, brewers!!!  I have 20-30 bottles!
    
    Hogan

I'll take those grolsh bottles, hogan...

RE; "Microkeg".  Sorry to cause so much confusion, my fingers were going faster 
than my brain (Slashitis). What a meant to type many replies back when talking 
about CBC kegs was MIcrobrewery kegss. CBC does not, to my knowledge sell kegs 
smaller than standard 1/4 kegs.

    No fair picking on Slash when he's not here to defend himself!
    
    :)

    but you can meet him in person and pick on him at the 14th annual 
    Hallo party at the Brookfoeld rod&gun club.  {CTW&theKIND}...
    
    I think Chris will be posting somewhere....

	Well, I'm back into brewing.  I cranked up a batch of Righteous
Real Ale out of the Papazian book.  As of this morning, it was bubblin'
like hell.  Also, at the request of Deb, I bought myself a wheat beer
recipe too.  I'll make the wheat beer as soon as the RRA hits the bottles.
Psyched to be back into brewing!

	/jc

    To answer the question of weeks ago of if you ever did anything
    for Deb in return for her quitting smoking:
    
    	You're making wheat beer at her request!
    
    Love to get a taste of that!  ;)
    
    		sparky

	Everyone knows I love WHEAT!!!!!

	I think I should get a sample before Sparky does ;-)   

	

    Nu Uh!
    
    Me FIRST!
    
    :) sparky

You know how Papazian says if you've got 5 gallons of beer in a 6.5-gallon
fermenter, you can put the airlock on right away, instead of using a blowoff
tube first?

Don't believe him.

- dc who almost had newly brewed stout all over his ceiling yesterday

    I have been telling people this for years...it usually takes a near
    accident or a real one to convince them. Of course there's always the 
    times when the blow-off hose becomes plugged...what's a father to do??? 
    rfb

    I've often wondered, when you are brewing beer, how strong an
    odor is there in the house?
    
    

Mystery,

	The odor is very strong during the actual brewing part, which only
takes an hour or so.  It smells a lot like beer. 

Fog

    RE: smell while brewing
    my kids say it stinks....I think it's the second best smell in the
    world...
    
    rfb

    The expression "smells like a brewery" should be "smells like a bar,"
    because it doesn't smell anything like stale dried beer.  It smells
    somewhat like bread baking, but more earthy and herbal.  I can't
    imagine anyone finding it objectionable.  I love it.
    
    Sometimes there's a rotten egg odor during fermentation, but this
    hasn't happened to me yet.
    
    The smell is definitely not a reason to not brew.  The only reason not
    to brew that I can think of is that it's a lot of work, but I find it
    relaxing and a labor of love.
    
    Jamie

I'd compare the smell of boiling the wort, etc, to a wonderful cereal/grain
scent.  I love the smell.   Other than that, I don't recall.  It's been
over 5 years since I've brewed, but if/when my kids require slightly less
work, I'm going to start again.

The only major smell I remember is when you cook it all up, and it smells
great.

Ken

    RE: ..."if/when my kids require slightly less work..."
    
     HA! guess you'll never be brewing again my friend!
    
    rfb (with 13 and 15 year old daughters)

I was slightly bummed to find that the smell didn't linger through the
evening ....

The bottling is the only part of brewing that I consider to be "work" ... I'll
probably get a kegging system if I find a couple hundred extra dollars in my
pocket, one of these days.

- DC

Deb does not like the aroma of brew brewing in the kitchen.  I love it!  I
like to put my face over the brewpot and take a big drag, er, I mean sniff.
Smell good..

After the brewing process, there is virtually no other smell strong enough to
cause a stink in the house.  A quick dose of oder is emitted when the fermenter
is opened up...

Hmmm... so i see there is interest in my weed, er, i mean wheat brew.... who's
gonna buy my guinness @ da bull this weds?? :-) :-)  jus' kiddin... maybe i'll
let ya sample some...

    The sulphur odor is mainly from extract brewing.  If (or when) you get
    into all-grain brewing it really smells delicious, kind of like sweet
    incense.  But expect lots of humidity, you have to boil off several
    gallons of water for all-grain, whereas extract brewing you just have
    to get it to boiling temps for sanitation.  Also supposedly you get a
    better brew boiling since it partially caramelizes the wort.
    
    The first batch I brewed (a 5-year-old can of extract) somewhat
    annoyedothers in the house, but after a few batches they really liked
    the smell.  It does not smell like a bar (if you mean the smell of
    stale cheap beer).
    
    Scott
    

re:                     <<< Note 212.508 by CXDOCS::BARNES >>>

>    RE: ..."if/when my kids require slightly less work..."
>    
>     HA! guess you'll never be brewing again my friend!
    

	Yikes!  I hope it gets a _little_ easier when they're older
	than 1 and 2 years, respectively!   They are at a tough age...
	If not, I'll still brew again, unless I strike it rich enough
	to buy microbrew to steadily nourish my tastebuds.    And this
	time it will be all grain.

	Ken

Sorry Ken, but it doesn't really get any easier, it just gets 
different.

If I were you, I'd start looking for ways to do the things you
want to do now.  That way, when they get a little older, they
can help!

tim

(Mine are 10, 12 and 14)

Yup, I think brewers love the smell as an intricate part of the labor of love,
but most non-brewers think it just stinks.  As said, the smell doesn't linger, 
the worst part is scrubbing the stove after a boil-over %^P

I'm beginning to think bottling is kinda a drag too, but I still need to get
one of those bottle washer attachments that go on the sink faucet... 

After one month in secodary and TWO WHOLE days in the bottle, the Gordies Dark
I brewed is really tasty, but not much carbonation (duh, wonder why ;^)


Glenn_who finished his last homebrew while bottling two days ago and doesn't
want to let the supply get this low again!!! 

    Boil overs? Never!
    
    Sarcasm aside, just be conservative with the temperature knob, keep an
    eye on the brew pot and stir often.  There's only one critical point
    where you may have a boil over.  If you get past that (after the foam
    dies) you don't have to worry.  Leaving plenty of head space in the
    brew pot helps too.  Also in my experience I get a better boil (i.e.
    less foaming) using fresh hops or plugs instead of pellets.
    
    Don't like bottling? Try kegging.  You can get old soda kegs at scrap
    dealers, and you may just need to replace the seals.  If you're lucky
    (as a friend was) you can pick up a cold plate and taps for a few
    dollars.  I'm still bottling and will continue to do so as I don't have
    the fridge space for a keg, nor do I drink the quantities of beer
    required to finish a keg while it's fresh.
    
    Changing the subject - anyone tried this year's crop of Oktoberfest
    beer?  I've seen Sam Adams, Harpoon (is this their first), another
    American brewer (maybe Yeunglings?) and the usual German imports.
    
    Scott
    
                                                               

    re: smell
    
    when we did an oatmeal stout, the kitchen smelled like breakfast :^)
    
    - rich
    

    
    
    I tried the Sam Adams Octoberfest, and it was pretty good.....
    
    About time to make the trip to the Old Vienna for a sampling of their
    Spaten Octoberfest on tap ($4.50 per pint....I'll have just 1 please)
    :^(
    
    On another homebrew note......have any of you homebrewers found that
    leaving bottles in the fridge for an extended period of time makes the
    beer taste worse?  This has happened with my latest batch.....the warm
    ones that I chill right before drinking taste the best.....the ones
    that have been in the fridge all week have more of an offtaste....I
    don't think this has always been the case, but lately I've been less
    than impressed with my brews, and I've been keeping as many as possible
    in the fridge.....
    
    Thinking of making another oatmeal stout next.....
    
    Hogan

    Sure you can have boil overs after the hot break -- believe me.  :-)
    
    The Sam Adams Octoberfest is excellent, fantastic, vundebar!  Hurry,
    though, Oktoberfest ends on Sunday.  Harpoon's is a good beer, but
    pretty lame for an Octoberfest.
    
    I tried a six of Commonwealth Brewery's Bitter.  Let me preface this by
    saying that their tap bitter, Burton's Best Bitter, is probably my
    favorite brewpub brew and one of the few authentic bitters in the US. 
    Their bottled bitter is one of the worst beers I've had in a long time. 
    My six definitely had a problem as every bottle had a strong wet grain
    odor (DMS, I think).  I still have one lonely bottle at home.  I hope
    they fix their problems (it's brewed under contract at Catamount)
    because I'd love to have anything close to their draft version
    available.
    
    Jamie

    
    Jamie, everything you said about Commonwealth's beer (the tap being the
    favorite, the bottled beer being a bust) I agree with completely!!!!
    
    Catamount doesn't quite make it as far as I'm concerned.....except for
    Post Road Ale, which I totally DIG!!!  But they aren't brewing beers
    that compare with the other grate american microbreweries.
    
    Tried some "Pete's Wicked Ale" this weekend.....I had tried it in
    Seattle last year (its brewed in California), and was most
    impressed.....this stuff is GRATE!!!!!!  TRY IT!!!!!
    
    Hogan

 I managed to put down a few Sam Adams Octoberfests myself over the weekend..
real nice











Jum

The Sam Adams Oktoberfest is excellent!  I was surprised by the strong
hops aroma ... the next day I tried a regular Sam Adams, and it seemed
to have a stronger-than-usual hops aroma.  Maybe a hopshead joined the
Sam Adams brewing team.  ;^)

"dc" and I had lunch at my pad last week and we sucked down a sixpack of the
Sam Adams Oktoberfest brew.  Good stuff.  Matter of fact, I liked it so much
that I went and bought a case ($23.99, all inclusive) of it later that day!
I'm trying _not_ to drink beer on mondays, tuesdays, and thursdays in an
effort to drop a couple of pounds.  so far, it is working, but with all that
yummie sam adams in my fridge and 5gals of homebrew hanging out in my kitchen,
this ain't easy!!

re: boilovers

unforetunately, i have an electric stove.  the temp. is controlled by 
pushbuttons (it is an ancient stove), lacking the granularity to get the
perfect temperature.  so, i keep an eye on it.  after the foaming phase is
over, i can cook it on "HIGH" w/o a boilover threat.

jc, who thinks it is time to have another homebrew tasting party but doesn't
have any weekends free until november.

    
    
    	Hi JC!
    
    	Did you say Homebrew Tasting Party?
    	November sounds good to me!  ;-)
    
    	-Helen
    	 

re                      <<< Note 212.523 by BOOKIE::BOOS >>>

>    	Did you say Homebrew Tasting Party?
>    	November sounds good to me!  ;-)
    

yes, i did say that.... lemme investigate my calendar of events and see if i
can pinpoint a date........ get your brew brewin!!!!    	 

    re: something like " I hope it gets easier whne they (kids)
    are a little older than 1 and 2..." NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    re: Pete's Wicked......OUCH MY HEAD! gotta watch that stuff!
    
    rfb

    re: Pete's Wicked Ale  
       Hmmm, I've been thinking about home brewing, but it might take a 
    while to live up to that name ;-)  Of course, it might be that I 
    will take it up and these are being transported from the future
    (to take the current ST:TNG thread cross notes boundaries ;-)
    If this is the case, then I promise to attend all the old Dead 
    concerts which don't have set lists with the future's equivalent of
    a stealth D5 (D6) or DAT  ;-)
    
    I've a friend who homebrew's occasionally.  He's got a PHd. in
    Philosphy, but works in the financial district in NYC.  Gotta make your 
    money somewhere. He was trying to think of a name for one of his brews 
    and I suggested the obvious (to me!) "Wall St. Lager".  I think I still 
    have an (empty ;-) bottle at home with the label he did up on a PC.
    
    Later,
    PeterT
    

    About beers in the fridge tasting worse - it's probably because they
    aged better outside, and the ones in the fridge just tasted young. 
    I've never had beer go bad just sitting in the fridge, except Guinness
    draught, which you're supposed to chill for just a few hours anyway.
    
    If anyone wants to make an excellent approximation of a Belgian ale,
    get the Ironmaster Belgian ale kit, add a pound of honey, 2 pounds of
    light dried malt and some mellow hops (I think I used fuggles).
    
    I'm trying to make a more authentic Belgian ale next time, by reusing
    the yeast from a bottle of Chimay (the true nectar of the gods).
    
    Scott
    

I've never brewed any beer myself, but I do have broad breadth
of experience in drinking, so I'll be glad to come to the
tasting party as a truly impartial judge...;-) ;-)

In fact, we could probably get a few of us, like Jum and Dave
Weiss, etc., and offer an entire panel of impartial judges...;-)
Right guys?

tim

    
    count me in!  ;-)

     
    I think if this is going to be party with several homebrewers bringing
    their samples, a panel of impartial judges would almost be required.
    If the timing is right I could see fit to be impartial.
    As they say, a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it ;-)
    
    PeterT

    wish I could go to THE GRATE AMERICAN BEER FEST in Denver this
    weekend...700 homebrewed or microbrewed beers for the tasting!
    but i'm afraid this is NOT my weekend to do much of anything except
    chores....
    
    rfb

RE:   <<< Note 212.528 by NAC::TRAMP::GRADY "Short arms, and deep pockets..." >>>


>In fact, we could probably get a few of us, like Jum and Dave
>Weiss, etc., and offer an entire panel of impartial judges...;-)
>Right guys?


 Well, I s'pose one could twist my arm and convince me to give it a shot :-)




 Jum who hasn't brewed yet but hopes to buy the equipment this weekend..

    Chris and I have been known to be quite impartial!
    
    :) sparky

    did someone say free beeee......I mean beer tasting Judges are needed ?

I'll attend this party!  I've never tasted anyone's homebrew, so I'm about as
impartial as one can be!

adam

    where's the party??? Iforgot. I try not be judgmental, but if it's beer
    I can express my tase!

wait wait wait wait now kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


sounds like there are more judges then brewers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


it would be nice to have a lot of homebrewed (from different people) beer,
different flaves, makes, models, etc...  

jum - if you get equipment this w'end, you could easily have something
ready for november!

I'll bring some of my PALe Ale ... if the party's around election day, my 
President Clinton's Stout will be ready, too.  ;^)

- dc

    
> President Clinton's Stout will be ready, too.  ;^)

    Well I'll definately have a bottle of that one!!  :-) :-)
    
    

    I'll contribute.
    
    I have a batch of victorian bitter that should be ready in a week or
    so,  followed by a batch of light/med canadian ale.  Tonight i try 
    a sam adams type with grains and hops!  thanks randy for the guidance!
    
    I also have a friend who bottled some newcastle medium last week.
    

    we're still waiting for our first batch to get into the bottles...  it
    started out to be carp-ish but it's going to be hoppier...  we're
    calling it "good for what ale's ya" ale...  :^)
    
    					da ve

    >  President Clinton's Stout will be ready, too.  ;^)
    
    Another good reason to vote for Clinton!  For those of you not
    in the know (assuming this is refering to what I'm thinking about)
    while in Boston last week, unable to cancel the reservations he had
    made for the Dead shows at the Boston Garden, Governor Clinton showed
    up at the Erie Pub.  This pub was made famous when visited by Pres.
    Ray-gun when he was, shudder, President.  Clinton was seen quaffing
    a pint of stout.  That's OK in my book ;-)
    
    PeterT
    

> In fact, we could probably get a few of us, like Jum and Dave
> Weiss, etc., and offer an entire panel of impartial judges...;-)

Hello!  What?  Did you say *beer*?!?  Well, it's is rather unusual for me,
but I suppose I could drink some beer for a special occasion... :-)

Dave (partially impartial...)

    God, I love causing a rucous!
    
    Of course, we'll need a 'double blind' testing mechanism, so the
    bottles should be unlabelled and the judges blindfolded.  Stark nekkid
    too, if ain't too cold.  It don't help with the taste, but it certainly
    adds to the atmosphere!  ;-) ;-)
    
    tim
    

> and the judges blindfolded.  Stark nekkid  too, if ain't too cold.

Stark nekkid *and* blindfolded?!?!?!?!?

Seems self-deFEETing...

Dave

			    ATTENTION BREWERS!!!!!!


    If you wish to make a holiday brew of one sort of another, start doing
    something about it soon!!!!  (especially if your recipe uses honey)

    I think I'm going to make another "Holiday Cheer" recipe, like the one
    in Charlie Papazian's book.  My brother and I brewed it last year, and
    it was GRATE!!!  We brewed it on October 29th last year (I remember,
    because October 29 is my Mom's b-day, and I recall wishing her a happy
    birthday while stirring the bubbling boiling brew :^), and it was ready
    just in time for the holidays......

    This year I'm going to add just a touch more cinnamon.....

    Hogan who can't stop thinking about brew recipes today :^)

Hey Hogan,

Say Happy Birthday to your mom this year for me.  It's my
birthday too.

It's also the anniversary of the 1929 Stock Market Crash.
Not as interesting since the 10/19/87 crash.  Something
about October, I guess. ;-)

tim

Anyone keeping up with this litigation that Sam Adams is bringing against
the Comm. Brewery over what these places are calling their brew?  Apparently
CBC is being sued because it is using a name Sam Adams uses....

I dunno... to me, it sounds like another case of litigious america at its
best.  I say, let the taste of the brew determine where customers go, not
the trademarked name!!!

    Had Sam Adams Oktoberfest last night . . . 
    
    
    	Mmmm Mmmm Good!
    
    
    And the 99 in Concord had them very reasonably priced!
    
    :)

    I had the Oktoberfest at OVK last nite....and for $4.20....it was
    great!
    
    Chris
    
    BTW they don't have much left 

    
    
    Soon they'll have even less left!!!! ;^)
    
    Hogan

    RE:  Brew Party 
    
    	Me and my brewing buddy Tom have been planning to make 
    	a nice stout for a coupla months now.  Could be drinking
    	it right now if we'd started it then!  I think I'll 
    	head on up to Jasper's and pick up the supplies tonight 
    	and get it going.  You can count me in as one of the
    	brewers, JC.  Yowzah! 
    
    	(Nothing like the thought of a party to put a fire under 
    	my butt, so to speak.)
    
    	-Helen

	JC, Sam Adams aka Boston Beer Company has a suit against
	Boston Beer Works, the new place near Fenway Park, not against
	the Common BC.  I agree it's a pitiful lawsuit.  I read a recent
	update in the Homebrewing News or whatever that free-bee publication
	at some package stores is called.

	Picked up a case of Spaten Octoberfest - very good but 
	disappointing.  I like it heavier, and it also seems slightly 
	lacking in carbonation.  I'll have to try the Sam Adams version 
	next, which I hear is heartier this year, which is good in my book.
	Last year's version was too light.

	Ken 

RE:         <<< Note 212.553 by MONTOR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>

>	JC, Sam Adams aka Boston Beer Company has a suit against
>	Boston Beer Works, the new place near Fenway Park, not against
>	the Common BC.  I agree it's a pitiful lawsuit.  I read a recent



     Hmmm...I thought I saw an article in the Globe last week that specifically
     mentioned the Commonwealth Brewing Company.  I was a ware of the Boston
     beer works suit also.  Of course the Globe may have erred..




     On another note, I bought a Brewing kit over the weekend :-)






 Jum

re:            <<< Note 212.554 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "We just ride" >>>

>     Hmmm...I thought I saw an article in the Globe last week that specifically
>     mentioned the Commonwealth Brewing Company.  I was a ware of the Boston
>     beer works suit also.  Of course the Globe may have erred..

	Hadn't heard of that one...   What is Sam Adams protesting ?

	Ken

    re .-1
    
    The suit against BBW got thrown out or decided in BBW's favor, I can't
    remember which.
    
    They have a new suit against Commonwealth, over it's "Boston Burton
    Bitter," since it uses "Boston" in its name (in tiny letters on the
    label).
    
    Jamie

>since it uses "Boston" in its name

huh?  do they think they have a trademark on the name of the city?

- rich

> huh?  do they think they have a trademark on the name of the city?
    
    From what I remember reading, they believe customer's will be confused
    by the 'similarity' of the names since they both have Boston in them.
    Of course, I always think of it as Sam Adam's.  Though is their 
    'lite' beer called something like Boston Tall Ships??  I tend to 
    avoid light beers so I can only remember it vaguely.  ;-)
    
    
    PeterT
    

re: lawsuit

pretty sure it said CBC, no Boston Beer Works.  I think the sam adams people
are a little high on themselves for thinking they can claim "Boston" as
part of their trademark.  give me a break!

re: brewing

so Jum, when are ya gonna brew your first batch?  I just racked mine to the
secondary.

/jc

 Wonder if they're gonna sue the city for using the name :-/



 Not sure what I'm gonna make.  The sales guy at the shop I was in was 
 trying to get me to buy a bunch of different fixin's so I scooted out with
 just the kit cuz I was cornfused.  I think I'll wait til dc has some time and
 then we'll figure out what to make.





 Jum

    It's called "Lightship", and, for a light beer, it's not bad.  I think
    I prefer Beck's Light, and it sure ain't Octoberfest!
    
    tim
    

	Now I remember, I think.... the lawsuit against Boston Beer Work
	was thrown out because Sam Adams can't claim exclusive access
	to the word "Boston". The new one against Boston [Best] Burton Bitter
	is even more ridiculous!  

	Ken

re         <<< Note 212.562 by MONTOR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>

>	Now I remember, I think.... the lawsuit against Boston Beer Work
>	was thrown out because Sam Adams can't claim exclusive access
>	to the word "Boston". The new one against Boston [Best] Burton Bitter
>	is even more ridiculous!  

	hmm, might be time to write them a quick letter telling them to
	relax a bit and let the taste of the beer rule...

    
    Thats funny.....they must have recently changed the name to "Boston
    [Best] Burton Bitter", because I'm pretty sure it was called "Best
    Burton Bitter" before.....thats too bad if they are complaining about
    it, as far as I'm concerned, the Boston area is still lacking in beer
    culture in comparison to the west coast, and Sam Adams seems to want a
    monopoly on the word "Boston."  Sheesh.....
    
    They better be careful, because the beer that they are drawing
    attention to (Commonwealth's burton bitter) is better than anything Sam
    Adams has to offer, IMO.
    
    Hogan

re:                <<< Note 212.564 by AWECIM::RUSSO "claimin!" >>>

    
>    Thats funny.....they must have recently changed the name to "Boston
>    [Best] Burton Bitter", because I'm pretty sure it was called "Best
>    Burton Bitter" before.....thats too bad if they are complaining about

	When the CBC opened a few years ago, a couple of things stood out
	in my mind:  BITTER Ale!! it's about time!! and the name of the beer,
	Boston's Best Burton Bitter Ale.  I'm not sure if "Best" is still 
	part of the name now or not.   I think the bottled CBC brews have
	different names than their on-tap counterparts.

>    it, as far as I'm concerned, the Boston area is still lacking in beer
>    culture in comparison to the west coast, and Sam Adams seems to want a

	I agree!!  Some of those CA microbrews are incredibly great, and
	I've only sampled a couple of em.  Sure wish I could get a trip
	to the left coast for some further research ;-)

	Ken

    Well, siding somewhat with Sam Adams, it sounds like they're just doing
    what is legally required to protect their trademark.  If someone comes
    along with a similarly named product and no one bothers to press any
    charges, the trademark is lost.
    
    Lots of everyday words were once trademarks that were lost because they
    fell into common usage and the owners lost their ownership to the name
    (like aspirin, linoleum, etc.).  But I don't expect "Boston" to become
    synonomous with "beer".
    
    Scott
    

I think I'll call my next beer "Slam Macadam's Boston Beanhead Babbling
Bingo."

- DC

All this talk is reminding me of a poem I learned a *long* time ago:

Betty Botta bought some butter,
But, she said, "this butter's bitter"
If I put it in my batter,
It will make my batter better.

I won't bother finishing it, you get the idea :-)

adam

Hmm...with my new homebrew kit maybe I better grab the Derry name while
its still around..





Jum

    Tradmarks and copyrights...
    
    The old Esso road map of the Boston area I found this weekend says it
    has trademarked the word "happy".  As in "Happy Motoring", which is
    also trademarked.
    
    ...so...I guess I should be bummed out, eh? ;-)
    
    :-(
    
    tim