Conference rdvax::grateful

  I believe this is not new and I believe it will always be true.  The Deadheads
are now and always have been identified as a drug crowd.  In the earlier years
they were a drug group.  They could now turn around and preach a different
message, but when have young listened to the experienced, especially when they 
can see hypocracy.  

  What they have going for them is a holistic attitude of love and acceptance
as well as a good message about the environment.  

Gotta go but more after reading others replies.

    john


  

    The only way I know of to improve the image of Deadheads (or of any
    other group) is to be visible doing good things as a Deadhead.
    
    John

    keep your nose clean, do the right thing, be kind to other as you would
    like them to be to you and when you do this, people (the pillers of the
    commuity) will somehow notice and hopefully see that not all of
    Deadheads or anygroup are bad (just like good LA cops and bad LA cops)
    
    
    Chris
    

	I took theliberty of updating the title of the base note to
	be more clear about the topic.  When I first saw the title
	"Image Help", I thought this was going to be a computer graphics
	discussion...

	Bob

  What I was trying to say was that i don't think there is any thing new 
about the drug busts and criminal police prejudice against deadheads.

  I feel that what the "older" more exprerienced heads need to do is pass the
attitude of the old days.  No nationalism, no hate or prejudice and open love
for you brothers and sisters as wellas a love for our dear mother earth.
We have always been known as a wierd druggy group, gee I wonder why, but most
knew that wasn't what the scene was about.  Now many deadheads have bought into 
society because we have grwn up and have kids of our own and morgages.  

  Wanna improve the image, let the kids see you acting responsible while having
fun.  Let them see you volunteering and actively working for a better world for
all.  I don't want to get off on one of my touchy feelie thoughts and bore you all
again, but my point is that the drug scene will probably always exist around
this group as will the bad publicity and as numbers grow so will the number of
busts and exagerated stories, but I doubt the percentages are up.  There are some
things that should be passed on, do your drugs have fun, but that is not what it
is all about, we can teach them moderation, but I wouldn't have listened to you,
but let's teach about love of each other and respect for this earth as well as 
one another... blah blah blah and more and more ;-)


  john
 

	the question is - what kind of image do we WANT?

	no matter how they try to sterotype us - we really are
	all individuals and we all have ideas in our heads on
	what a deadhead is, right?  so...what's important to
	me may not be important to you and how can I tell you
	that you have to change this important-to-you thing
	to improve "the image of the deadheads"?  I guess what
	I'm saying is that I'm in agreement with what's been
	said so far - YOU can change YOU if you want and what
	YOU project to the world could reflect on us all...

        Some positive things that can be done by us as individuals
        that MAY help the image:

                - live a model of behavior you want emulated
                  ...I'm thinking of simple things here like
                  carrying a trash bag to a show and picking
                  up some garbage on your way out.  It may
                  not make much of a dent, but someone may
                  notice what you're doing and decide to
                  do that themselves sometime, or someone
                  "in power" may see it and shed some positive
                  light about the scene when giving feedback
                  to others
                - talk to some people you see that you feel
                  are participating in some really negative
                  behavior.  Talk TO them, not AT them.
                  Oftentimes telling someone to not do something
                  brings out the natural rebel in them and they'll
                  continue just out of spite.  A different approach
                  would be something like "I really love this scene - if
                  you do that (deal openly/crash gates/piss on someone's lawn),
		  we may all lose this venue".  Give them the freedom
		  to change their own behavior.
                - and possibly take this active stance a step further
                  along the lines that Lisa has been doing...when she found
                  out an Albany parking lot would allow overnight camping,
                  she called someone in authority and let them know she
                  appreciated it.  I think that was a real positive step.
		  If you are so inclined, write a letter to a newspaper
		  or city official of, say, Albany (from what I've been
		  reading, it seems like it was a cool scene there) - let
		  them know you had a great time, you appreciate the welcome
		  and that you spent X number of $'s in local establishments;-)
		  Positive feedback from us can't hurt

	Debess
   

MARV,

  My mistake, hope you are not offended. Hopefully, if an argument starts
you can take all the flak and I'll sit innocently by, yeah, I like that!!!
Any controversial statements from will always be prefaced with "Marv says..."

  ;-)

  john

    Ya know,.. Ii heard Marv say the other day that people who put words
    in his mouth should be shot
    
    ooops
    
    					/on_the_run_frim_marv_with_a_gun
    
    	PS :-)
    
    

Well,

There were a lot of people in Albany.  Much, much more than the Knick is
capable of holding.

From what I saw, things were pretty good.  I did not see anyone get busted,
did not see any fights (never seen one at a show), but I did see a lot of
trash.  Trash is a major problem at shows.  Cities need to put those HUGE
dumpsters, often found at construction sites, at key places.  Then, maybe
smaller dumpsters around the area that can be dumped after the show.  Perhaps
they could carry it a step further and have a dumpster for recyclable bottles
and cans ... 'heads must dump 1000s of dollars worth of cans/bottles at
each show!

Albany seems like a good place for a show.  The city seemed ready for the
influx of people (witnessed by several signs in shops saying "Welcome
Deadheads", etc).  I'm wondering if the business community gets together
and plans for these types of events...

    
    My kids had a great time in Albany.  They said that there were signs
    in store windows welcoming the Dead Heads and that the scene was cool
    and mellow.
    
    The only problem they had was that the motel they stayed at seemed to
    be discriminating against the Dead Heads... making them pay a 25 dollar
    deposit fee IN CASE THEY TRASHED THE PLACE... no one else was asked
    to pay such a fee.
    
    One woman working there was particularly nasty to them.  I just
    happened to have a run in with her myself.  I called to see if I could
    reach the kids before they checked out and she said that they had gone
    and "trashed the place".  I asked her specifically what she ment and
    she said that they wrote all over the walls with lipstick nasty things
    about different members of the hotel staff.  
    
    I told her that neither of my girls wears or carries lipstick and that
    they are from out of state and don't even know the names of the people
    who work there so ... either someone from the hotel went into their
    room and did it after they left or she was a liar.
    
    It ended up that she was a liar.
    
    So typical... You know... maybe we Deadheads need to improve our
    attitudes but there are a lot of people out there in the world who also
    need improvement.  In my opinion, the kid smoking a joint does less
    damage to humanity than the nasty, vile attitudes of those who cannot
    tolerate anyone who is different from themselves or whose values or
    experiences differ.
    
    Just my opinion of course. :-)
    
    mary

Note 142.10             
XCUSME::MACINTYRE                                     
    
    >Besides being a Deadhead means being receptive to
    >other opinions while remaining bullet-proof. :^)
    
    Great observation, Marv :-) ... and a lot of truth in it too.
    
    mary
      

The staff at the Daze Inn on route 9W seemed pretty psyched to have the deadhead
crowd.  I did not see any trouble or excessive trash around.  They served a
pretty decent breakfast for a very reasonable price...

But man, did they rake in the dough @ $85 /night ...

It seemed to me that there weren't enough trash receptacles at Albany ... I'm
thinking especially of the large parking lot, where a lot of the trash
(including bottles and cans :^/) were left.

I had heard from someone at the Hill St. Cafe there there *were* containers
for recycling at Albany, but I didn't see them.  If they were there, it would
have been nice if more people knew they were there.

Other than the trash at Albany (and I have seen worse at many previous shows),
I thought things were pretty cool ... I got the impression Sat. night (Albany)
that the cops were ready for a riot or something ... walking around with their
billyclubs drawn, darting around on horses yelling at people with megaphones
... not sure if the deadheads delivered.  People can correct me if I missed
things, but deadheads seem pretty well behaved to me, overall.  Unfortunately
the Sunday paper's article focused on the drug busts.  I thought it was
interesting when I read in the article that police were focussing on nitrous
dealers.  I have to admit some of the N2O dealers were pretty blatant; maybe
the cops were having trouble making a large number of arrests for other
substances?

- Dave

    
    i thought the cops in albany were a little more uptight this year than
    last but that just means that last year the cops looked liek they were
    having fun and this year they looked like they were working...
    
    and JC, i have to differe a bit on the attitude of the people at the
    daze inn...  well, a couple of the maids anyway...  the desk people and
    the majority of the staff were pretty cool (they didn't even get upset
    at the heads sleeping on the hallway floors!) but a couple of those
    maids were downright rude...
    
    					da ve

    
         Improving our image??? Well, how about starting with improving
    the way the ticket sales are handled. I firmly believe that ALL TICKET
    AGENCIES should be banned from obtaining BLOCKS of seats, or any 
    tickets for that matter. The shows would still sell out and more
    legitamate show goers  would be able to get in. I mean, if people
    were to get only the tickets they NEEDED, we wouldn't have to order so
    many fearing that some orders won't get filled. It's bad enough as 
    it is with the economy trying to get by and having to pay $40 to $125
    per ticket( which I REFUSE to do ) from these agencies gets my goat.
    
         I heard that scalpers are now eating the tickets they don't sell
    rather than give them up!!! Perhaps a "DEAD SECURITY" force to go
    around nailing these guys and just turning the tickets over to the poor
    souls who have not???
    
    Just my $.02 worth.
    
    Allen
    

    RE .16
    
    I stayed at the Quality Inn, and it sounds just like the scene at Dayz
    Inn.  The desk people and security folks were real cool.  They kept the
    lounge open all night for those who wanted to hang out and party.  One
    of the elevators broke down sometime in the wee hours of the morning,
    and when they got it fixed they found about a half-dozen heads sleeping
    in there.  Overall the employees seemed to get a kick outta the whole
    scene ... except for the maids.  They were up knocking on people's door
    at 8 AM wanting to clean rooms (and check-out wasn't till 11!).  And
    their attitudes were definitely on the rude side.  In fairness though,
    I suspect they had more than their usual share of cleaning to do after
    Saturday night.
    
    ... Bob
    

da ve -

yah, I agree, the daze inn was WAY expensive.  i think last year, jack and i
paid $60 or so.., the daze inn, complete w/ tax ws $85 .. that's $170 for 2
nights!  luckily, we had several in our room so that helped the cost per 
person out.

I did not have any encounter w/ the maids, so I can't judge them.  i just kept
the do not disturb sign on the door and nobody bothered us;  deb had one
encounter and had favorable results --> she asked for several towels, and the
maid said, "You have 4 people in your room?"  to which she replied, "i need
one for me, and 1 for my hair.."   the maid chuckled and sent deb on her way
with four towels for the four people in our room!!!

	jc

    Several points.....
    
    1- Dearheads take a lot of flak for promoters problems.  My nieces
    TRIED to go to a concert a few years ago at Alpine Meadows in
    Wisconsin.  The promoters were running adds for the show up until
    showtime, even tho it had been sold out for weeks.  They also over sold
    the show, thousands more tickets than the place could hold.  People
    looking to buy tickets at the gate filled all the parking, and the
    overflow went for miles.  People trying to walk in cut thru farmers
    fields and damaged crops.  People stranded in the tie up relieved
    themselves on the roadside and in the schrubery.  My nieces had tickets
    but could not get near the place.  The police and site security got
    panicy.  The crowd of excluded ticketholders got nasty.  The promoter
    made a fortune, and the DEAD got blamed for drawing a 'bad crowd'.
    
    2- Trash - I have been to shows in California, where people hand out 
    trach bags to folks at the show and in the camp ground.  Dumpsters were
    also provided.  But then Bill Gramm is the worlds best promoter.
    
    3- Is the backlash against the Dead part of a larger movememt.  Two
    Live Crew's album being baned, Maplethorps art, short hair...  it seams
    to me that the whole world is swinging to the right.  We may have to do
    the sixties over again.
    
    Judy
    
    at the show and in the 

    >3- Is the backlash against the Dead part of a larger movememt.  Two
    >Live Crew's album being baned, Maplethorps art, short hair...  it seams
    >to me that the whole world is swinging to the right.  We may have to do
    >the sixties over again.
    
Kind of off the topic a little 8^O but when I went to college at a small 
liberal arts school in Maine (Colby) most of the students seemed to pretty much 
reflect the above statement (shorter hair, etc).  A couple of friends went up 
this past weekend to visit, and in the two years since we graduated the campus 
has "transformed" - the most common dress is tye-dye and long hair for guys and 
girls, they said it was the "in" way to look up there these days.  Being the 
tight-a$$ conservative republican-types they are (by the way, that's how they 
describe themselves, I didn't make it up), they were kind of flabbergasted.  
I think it's pretty cool...

Scott

    
    I remember the Alpine show mentioned.  I was going to go to all 4 shows
    - it was a Sunday, Monday, Wednessday, Thursday run - if I remember
    right.  I had tix for all 4 shows.  When we finally got off the exit
    ramp - MAJOR traffic jam getting there - there was a road block and the
    police were telling everyone to turn around and go home.  I explained
    to the officer that I had tix.  He said it does not matter they are not
    letting anyone else in - "go home".  I decided instead to park my car
    on the side of the road and walk 5+ miles to the show and I got in no
    problem but the place was PACKED - must of been near 40,000 in there. 
    It was wall to wall bodies on the lawn and the lawn at Alpine is HUGE. 
    After the show our car was not even towed so it turned out pretty good. 
    I heard rumors that the show was oversold by 5,000-6,000 tickets:-( 
    Alpine was and still is my favorite venue to see the Dead at - too bad
    that the days of spending a week at Alpine during the summer are a time
    of the past!:-(
    
    Happy Cheese-
    Jerry

A couple of thoughts.

	HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE BAND ASKED PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE 
	TICKETS NOT TO ATTEND?  HOW MANY TIMES?  HOW MANY YEARS?

Yes, I'm yelling.  If some of those people who showed up w/o tickets would
get it through their thick skull, perhaps some of the over-crowded, pissing
on lawns, trash, etc would be limited, therefore, with any luck, the venue
would want the Boyz to come back.  BUT, I guess a lot of people just don't
give two shits about what they are doing.  Sure, freedom and all, but, you
have to strike a balance:  freedom and no Grateful dead, or respect and
Grateful dead?  Looks like many people are making the former choice.

Re: Scott

What you witnessed at Colby, tie-dyes and all, might just be a trend.  The
clothes might be the "in" thing right now; if this is the case, that trend 
will come and go like all the others... I saw it happen at the University
of Ripoff, er, Hartford ......... (not w/ tie-dyes though, trends in general).

I hear ya JC, in fact the two people who were there this weekend seemed to 
think it was simply the "in" thing to do.  Interesting trend though!

Scott

re:  <<< Note 142.22 by AD::VAUK "love will see you through" >>>

>    I heard rumors that the show was oversold by 5,000-6,000 tickets:-( 

Ya know, this is one thing that's always bothered me.  If promoters
decide to oversell a show by as much as a few thousand, how can they
avoid the kind of problems that's inevitable with so many extra people.
How can they blame it on the fans??

peace,
t!ng

    ref: How can they blame it on the fan's??......ignorance and by saying
    that the Dead caused it and that there were counterfits etc etc etc...
    sad but true....and knowing all this all those extra "lost soles" will
    show up looking for that one miricle FREE ticket.
    
    rich

RE: How can they blame it on the fans??

Kind of like asking why do doggies lick their...ummmm....privates??




Cause they can!!!

    imo every show is over sold ever notice concources full and every seat
    in arena taken ?

RE:                     <<< Note 142.28 by JUPITR::MCINTYRE >>>
                                     -< ? >-

>>    imo every show is over sold ever notice concources full and every seat
>>    in arena taken ?



YES !!

Albany was a prime example.  I have never, in 20 shows, seen the concourse
so *jammed* with people during break... and during the show... albany was
over sold... i think anyways...

    I'm not convinced the arenas are oversold legitimately however.  Think
    about it ... if they confiscated 5,000 counterfeit tickets in one night
    at Landover, how many do you think get through??
    
    ... Bob