Conference rdvax::grateful

From: [email protected] (George Lambert)
Subject: Re: 8-13-75
Date: 31 Jan 91 21:16:33 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (George Lambert)
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>
> hello,
>
>
>does anybody know when 8-13-75 great american music hall is going to be rele
>ased  on cd?  i heard  that healy  is digitally remastering it.
>also, my three "go away" songs  are: queen  jane, women are smarter, and min
>glewood. overplayed without much  "space" to them.  see ya.
>     glenn.
 
Funny how timing works, ain't it?  I just got off the phone with GD 
Merchandising on this very subject:
 
End of February release is planned for 'Great America Blues for Allah' as
the title was relayed to me.  Sadly relevant title if they release it that
way.
 
Also, they are done mixing the Jerry Garcia Band live album, and that could
well be released about the same time.
 

     
     Just talked to G.D.M., asking about the "Great American Blues for Allah"
     CD, and was told the following:
    
     It'll be released around the second week of April.
     It will be available both from GDM and regular retailers.
     It is to be called "One From the Vaults"  (When I asked about "Great American
     Blues for Allah" she said "huh?  It's called "One From the Vaults"
     We already have a "Blues For Allah".)
    
    
     Oh well, to wait...to wait.
    
     ps:  She also told me that there will be MANY more shows in this series, and
     that I should call in early April to order.
    

    Heard on the radio that the first vault tape will be on sale
    April 15.  
    
    cb

    Well, it's April 15. Anyone get the new CD?
    
    BTW, Lechmere has a "all cds on sale" sale this week. About 15-20% off.
    
    Scott_going_shoppin_after_work
    

Scott,

Please report here if you are able to buy a copy.

JC

I just got off the phone w/ Noteworthy.  The new title is called "One From The
Vaults" and Noteworthy will have it on April 30th.

JC

    I don't want to create a mad traffic jam in Nashua, but...
    
    I was at Rockit Records during lunch and they have "One From The
    Vaults".
    It's a 2-disc set, only $15.99. It's in a strange skinny cardboard
    package, no plastic jewel boxes. It's on their own label.
    
    Track listing:
    Disc 1:
    Introduction  0:46
    Help on the Way  7:52
    Franklin's Tower  6:58
    The Music Never Stopped  5:29
    It Must Have Been The Roses  5:05
    Eyes of the World/Drums  14:32
    King Solomon's Marbles  6:36
    Around & Around  5:59
    
    Disc 2:
    Sugaree  7:59
    Big River  4:50
    Crazy Fingers/Drums  13:08
    The Other One  5:33
    Sage and Spirit  3:24
    GDTRFB  7:13
    US Blues  5:29
    Blues for Allah  21:01
    
    The guy at the store says they got them last week and they thought they
    were to go on sale Monday, then the date changed, and suddenly they
    were on the shelves this morning.
    
    Don't worry about selling out - they have lots of them.
    
    Scott
    

    
    I called Strawberry's and Newbury Comics and neither one of them had
    any idea what I was talking about - they had no release date.........
    Where is Rockit Records?  Say if I were coming up 495 North.
    
    Happy Cheese-
    Jerry

    Oops - look like Mike beat me to it. You must have been the "one other
    person" that bought one.
    
    I wonder if this is a screwed up release in just that store, or
    everyone will have it? If it's a mistake they may pull them off the
    shelves until the 30th. Would mine be more valueble if a put a stamp on
    it and had the post office cancel it to make the date official?
    
    BTW, the liner notes say this was mixed from the 16-track masters
    directly onto a bunch of digital stuff. They've also apparently edited
    the between-song breraks. Dan Healy's notes end with "more to come".
    
    Since when has Grateful Dead (R) been an (R)? I noticed it on the last
    cd too.
    
    Scott
    

    One more - to get to Rockit Records - it's across the street from the
    Pheasant Lane Mall and Pizzeria Uno, next to Lamplighter Square.
    From Mass: take the last exit before the border, turn left to get on DW
    Highway. Rockit Records will be on your left. You'll have to go up to
    the next light and do a U-turn to get to it.
    Or take exit 1 down Spit Brook Road (turn right at the end of the
    ramp), take a right at the end, and Rockit is about a mile down on your
    right, just after Stuarts and the bowling alley.
    
    Scott
    

	A lot of copies of this CD will probably be sold, but I was	
	wondering what effect (if any) slow sales would have on the 
	dead's taping policy.

	I'm gonna buy it, but if say, 5-8-77 comes out on CD, since 
	there are incredibly good low-gen copies around, I wouldn't
	buy it.
	
	Any thoughts ?

	Ken

    Reading between the lines of Healy's notes, it's obvious they know
    which tapes are popular, and the quality of the tapes in circulation.
    They apparently picked this show because it's been a popular one (hey,
    how often did they do Sage and Spirit?). Most of the tapes of this show
    are either from the FM broadcast, which was heavily edited since it was
    not a live broadcast, or are from the tapes used for the editing, which
    are complete but not of exceptional quality.
    
    I predict they'll aim for either popular shows for which no high
    quality tapes are in circulation, or for equally famous but hard to
    find shows (I'd love some of the '73 tour with the horn section).
    But I don't see them being able to sell the complete series in stores,
    there's probably not enough sales to justify most stores to keep what
    may be dozens of new titles in stock. But at $16 for a complete show
    I'll buy them all!
    
    Scott
    

>    But at $16 for a complete show
>    I'll buy them all!
    
Yeah, me too!!

peace,
t!ng

Me 3!





Jim

	Me 4:-)

	Geoff

    Based on what I'm listening to right now I'd take out a second mortgage
    for them all:-). This one is so CRISP! The separation is stunning and
    Healy's got Phil mixed right up front:-). Definitely made to be played
    at extreme volumes!
    
    Mike

re:  <<< Note 39.16 by KOBAL::MROGERS "Someday everything's gonna be different..." >>>

>    The separation is stunning and Healy's got Phil mixed right up front:-).
>    Definitely made to be played at extreme volumes!

YOW!!  I can't wait to get my eardrums blasted out!!  Ok, time to let my
fingers do the dancin' and find out who's got my mind-torch...

peace,
t!ng

FWIW, I'd say Slipknot is embedded in what they call Help On the Way.  I don't
think Help is 7+ minutes long, no matter how long they stretch it.  Besides, a
cut to Franklin's would be blasphemy!

adam

This sounds like a HOT disc.  $16 for 2 cds is not a bad price either.  I'll
buy 'em all 5 !!!!!!!


Too bad it did not come out earlier.  My parents were out of town for a week
so I brought my NAK + klipsch to their house and 

				BLASTED

tunes all week!  It was so fine not to have to worry about the *&)## neighbors!
The 11-1-90 and the denver tapes sound GREAT at a good volume... Phil comes
though nice..... and causes much vibration!!!

:-)

Can't wait for them to go away again to I can BLAST one more time!!

    	.....about the missing Slipknot on the CD.... its there but rilly
    short @1 min or so. Compared to WOAN H->S->F (which is 18+ mins) 
    this one is @15 mins soooooo you can see how far the Dead have come
    with H->S->F.....
    
    Chris

I bought "One From The Vault" last night at Rockit Records.  $15.99 is totally
worth it for 2 CDs of great music.

Like others have said, the sound quality of this disc is INCREDIBLE.  My
neighbors are going to hate the Phil in that CD.  Really clean, all throughout.

I like the way it is packaged, but I can't figure out what to do with those
plastic pieces that came with it... other than to chuck 'em...

Also, the liner notes explain how they made the CD.  Too much recording jargon
for me to understand ... it is offically an ADD recording; most of my CDs
are AAD (analog-analog-digital)...

re < Note 39.21 by BIODTL::FERGUSON "the rainbow has a beard" >

>Also, the liner notes explain how they made the CD.  Too much recording jargon
>for me to understand ... it is offically an ADD recording; most of my CDs

Actually, the audio-techo-fetishist-dweeb in me liked them... :-) (but y'all 
knew I would!).  I think it was put there to satisfy the tapers, who would 
want to know everything possible that could be known about the tape to CD 
transcribing process.

Favorite part of "The Music Never Stopped":
	Mrs. Donna Jean Godchaux's "EUNH!" 	;-)
This song has such delightfully Weir'd  tempo changes!

What I notice most about the mix was all the extra percussion instrument
detail (I guess the high end is the first to go in tape dubbing).  
You can make out delicate echo on Mickey and Bill's cymbals (or tambourines..
whatever they're using) in "It Must Have Been The Roses" for example.

Nice   <- S T E R E O  ->  mix, too.   Bob and Mickey in left channel, Phil, 
Mrs. Godchaux, Jerry's voice and guitar in DEAD center, Keith and Bill in right.

Josh

    
    
    
    
    	Actually JC, did you mean to say you paid $16.99.  I'm hoping 
    	so because I just picked a copy up today on my lunch hr and 
    	I paid $16.99.  I still can't believe I got 2 CD's for that 
    	price.  WOW.....
    
    	Can't wait to get home an listen to my new addition. 
    
    	Nicole

Got mine Friday at Rockit...$15.99.  Sounds grate.  Love the Franklin's and
Eyes.





Jim

Nicole,  nope;  I paid the $15.99 ... I'm 100% pos-E-teev about this.  I 
cranked up Sugaree/Big Rivah this morning while dealing.  Nice bass; I wonder
if my neighbors liked it?!?!?!?

I wonder if the relatively low price for a first release CD has anything to do
with the low-cost, low-impact packaging? Its either that, or maybe GDM has 
lower markups than the big labels? That's hard to believe, though, given their
digital-like price structures :-)

Fog

I wondered that same thing Fog.  Is GDM giving us a break?  What for?  At any
rate, the Minor Chord in Acton, MA was selling it for $19.99;  I don't know
what Noteworthy is going to ask for it...

I kind of like the packaging;  neat and pleasing to the eye!  And the music,
is quite palatable to the ears!

    
    I called Noteworthy yesterday - 
    
    One From the Vaults - $14.74
    Deadicated - $12.05
    
    Fredda

    
    
    Newbury Comics has the Deadicated CD for $10.79 all this week.

I sure hope Healy pulls out more stuff from the vaults.  The quality
on this CD is just excellent!!  "Makebelieve Ballroom" is probably
one of my all time favorite tapes (does anyone know why they call it
Makebelieve Ballroom??).

I also got a listen at DEADICATED.  It was great, although Jane's
Addiction's version of Ripple is going to get a little getting used
to 8-/.  Randy has a tape he had put together that has other artists
covering "Dead songs" (though not necessarily Dead originals).  It's
a refreshing change to be able to hear such familiar songs from a
different perspective.

peace,
t!ng

    
    I just got back from Newbury's Comics and they had Deadicated on sale
    for $10.77 and One from the Vault for $17.99.  Just thought I would
    pass the info on......I can't wait to get home and listen to
    it:-)....in fact I am out of here now I cannot wait:-)
    
    Happy Cheese-
    Jerry

           <<< Note 39.30 by SKYLRK::TING "Give Peace a Chance!!!" >>>

>one of my all time favorite tapes (does anyone know why they call it
>Makebelieve Ballroom??).

Is that how this Great Amer. Music Hall show is referred to?  I never heard 
that before...I like it though. 

on another note:
>I also got a listen at DEADICATED.  It was great, although Jane's
>Addiction's version of Ripple is going to get a little getting used
>to 8-/.  Randy has a tape he had put together that has other artists
>covering "Dead songs" (though not necessarily Dead originals).  It's
>a refreshing change to be able to hear such familiar songs from a
>different perspective.

Ditto!!!!!!  WOW!  I picked this up and listened to it only once so far,
plus hearing some of the cuts on the radio BUT I love it.  Some quick
highlights for me were, China Doll(and the cassidy was nice too!) (vega),  
Zevon, Los Lobos, Costello and most of the rest.  

Fun fun fun!
bob

ps. I had to pass on the vault release cause they wanted 20 at Strawberries
which is more than the record'll cost me closer to home....

Re:           <<< Note 39.30 by SKYLRK::TING "Give Peace a Chance!!!" >>>

>I sure hope Healy pulls out more stuff from the vaults.  The quality
>on this CD is just excellent!!  "Makebelieve Ballroom" is probably
>one of my all time favorite tapes (does anyone know why they call it
>Make believe Ballroom??).

	The show, as noted, was on 13 Aug 75 at the Great American Music
	Hall in San Francisco.  However, it was broadcast on the radio
	(KSAN?) on, I believe, 1 Sep 75.  The radio broadcast was, again,
	I believe, billed as the Greatful Dead from "The Make Believe
	Ballroom"...

	Bob

    Yes Jim,..
    
    	and the rest of us think you are really weird
    
    	even without al this sprouts talk,.. 
    
    							/
    
    	PS :-)
    

re:  <<< Note 39.42 by BOSOX::HENDERSON "Seems a common way to go" >>>

>Speaking of sprouts however, there seems to be a shortage..I haven't seen
>any for quite a while :^(

OH NO!!  NOT A SPROUT SHORTAGE!!  Ok, who's the sprout-hogger and what do
you propose I should do when I go through sprout withdrawals, hmmmm???

peace,
t!ng

    Sure I like Jack Brussels from Sproutitcha......it's grooovy.
    
    rich whos had a REAL ROUGH day

RE:   <<< Note 39.45 by STRATA::DWEST "Dont Overlook Something Extraordinary" >>>
                              -< i like it too! >-

       
   > ps.  sprout shortage eh??  i haven't seen any since my last visit from
   > the sprout fairy (tm) !!!!  :^)




    Hmmm.  Neither have I...wonder if there's a connection?

Ok.  Let's get back on topic.

Since "One From the Vaults" is out, the question becomes, what's next?

If this first one can be used as a benchmark for the criteria that they're
using to select candidates for these releases, then I'd assume that they'll go
for concerts at which they were set up for multi-track live recording.  This is
the only way that they'll be able to mix the recording for the kind of
separation of instruments, soundstage, and overall mix that they achieved on
OFTV.  Of course, this assumption could be completely off base. :^)

Given these assumptions are correct, however, shows that come to mind would be:

	2/11/70, 2/13/70, 2/14/70 - 	Unlikely, however, since some is 
					already on Bear's Choice.

	4/5, 4/6, 4/28, 4/29/71   -	A couple of tunes are on Skull &
					Roses, but sure would be nice to
					have a whole show (esp 4/5!!!).

	10/*/74			  -	Unlikely, though, 'cause too close
					too OFTV and already much of it is
					in The Grateful Dead Movie.

	9/*/78 - Egypt		  -	This has been discussed before.  A
					definite possibility.

Any other ideas?  We should be able to consume *plenty* of disk space with
this discussion!

	~dave

re:         <<< Note 39.60 by NECSC::LEVY "Love is real, not fade away" >>>
   
    >Any other ideas?  
    
    Sure. Spring 1976 & 1977

    I'd like to see 2-11-71 with Greg & Duane Allman and Pete Green.
    
    Chris

	Other ideas ?    Howsabout the closing of Fillmore East run from 4/71.
	There are good tapes around but they're certainly not the ultimate,
	and there too much variation in the sound quality.

	Classic shows for sure... that Alligator->Jam->Cold Rain+Snow jam
	immediately comes to mind.    (Hearing that on Bob W's HUGE speaker
	setup in the basement is incredible! ;-).

	One thing though: I wonder how out-of-tuneness will affect releases.
	Ie, if a performance consists of some songs with out of tune 
	instruments, I doubt the band members would want it released.  For
	example, 2/18/71 with the first Bertha.   GREAT DarkStar->WharfRat->
	DarkStar, but some of this show has instruments that are way out of	
	tune...  I can see Jerry cringing at the thought of releasing something
	like this.

	Another suggestion: more '72!  Great sound-quality tapes are pretty 
	rare from this era.   Also howsabout some  Weather Report Suite 
	material from '73.   

	Ken

    I recently purchased the recent vault cd, and it's grate. However
    the second cd (starts with Sugaree) has stopped working. My cd player
    will not acknowledege this one cd, all others cd work. Has anyone
    else had this happen? I will be returning this asap. What's even
    stranger is that it worked when it was first purchased. My cd player
    is fine, how odd.   

    Yesterday I had both OFTV and Deadicated in my hands, deciding which
    (or both) to buy.  I ended up getting OFTV (which I LOVED), but I
    noticed that Deadicated didn't include the cover of Cumberland Blues by
    the Cache Valley Drifters.  It's a really nice version, I was kinda
    disappointed it wasn't there.  Oh well.
    
    OFTV is a terrific mix of a wonderful performance.
    
    tim
    

    I'm not quite sure if this is still the vault tapes note, but apparently
    Healy is looking at releasing 2/18/71 next. If that's the case, it looks 
    like a trend is forming. 
    
    - Gerry

    The liner notes to OFTV state that the concert was to present
    the Blues for Allah material and to celebrate the beginning of
    Grateful Dead Records. Didn't Grateful Dead records begin a couple of
    years earlier with Wake of the Flood?
    
    John

re:                       <<< Note 39.75 by DECWET::HAMBY >>>
   
    >                        -< Healy memory failure? >-

    >The liner notes to OFTV state that the concert was to present
    >the Blues for Allah material and to celebrate the beginning of
    >Grateful Dead Records. Didn't Grateful Dead records begin a couple of
    >years earlier with Wake of the Flood?
    
    Might have been on Round Records, I forget.
    
    - Gerry

    RE .74
    
    Just curious Gerry ... what's the trend ???
    
    ... Bob
    

    I think Wake of the Flood was on Round Records...I remember getting it in
    college, (1973?), and the talk back then was the Dead's dissatisfaction
    with the quality of recording  that was available from the major
    recording studios back then.  Wake is a terrific recording, (IMHO), and
    tended to support that rumor.
    
    Didn't GD records come later?  Or do I have this backwards?  They say
    memory is always the second thing to go... :-).
    
    tim
    

re:       <<< Note 39.77 by BOOKS::BAILEYB "This space reserved for Bob" >>>
   
   >Just curious Gerry ... what's the trend ???
    
    I may be completely wrong about this but my half-baked brain cells
    seem to recall both shows having lots of first-time-played songs.
    Better check deadbase, though. It's a better source than my memory.
    
    - Gerry

    "Wake of the Flood" was on Grateful Dead Records (GD 01).  Round was a
    subsidiary of GD Records for spin-off acts, such as "Seastones" and the
    Keith and Donna records.
    
    Jamie

    Thanks for the clarification, Jamie.

RE: 2/18/71

According to the set list I have for 2/18/71, SIX firsts were played that
night:

	Bertha
	Greatest Story
	Johnny B. Goode
	Playin' In The Band
	Loser
	Whaft Rat

My recording of this show is not the best;  Personally, I'd rather see 2/23/71 
over 2/18/71 ...
	

re: 2/18/71

FWIW, There was a deadhead hour a while back that had most of those "firsts"
(Playin' was not included, for one) in that show.

adam

 My wife gave me OFTV fro my b-day. I've only listen to the first disc
but so far... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

In the notes on the ADD process it say that move the set break to match
the cd format. WHY? I have cd's that have over 70 mins worth of music
and these don't reach that far. Althou I not sure about disc 2.

Shawn

This info came on the net within the last week...thought some of
you might be interested

Debess


Article        46976
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From: [email protected] (Bob Thaden)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Help Dan Healy
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 28 Jun 91 18:09:05 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Usenet News)
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Lines: 21
 
Was just looking through the latest Dupree's Diamond News (vol 18, May 1991)
and noticed the following solicitation:
 
"... Dan [Healy] asked us to submit to him a concise statistical review of
YOUR suggestions for what 'Music from the Vault' he should make available on
CD.  So, we're asking you.  Write down your personal favs legibly and send 
it/them to us at:
    
       DDN - Healy's Vault Project
       P.O. Box 3603 
       New York, NY  10185                                                "
 

Article        47051
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From: [email protected] (David Gans)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Help Dan Healy
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 30 Jun 91 20:06:19 GMT
References: <[email protected]>
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
Lines: 16
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Bob Thaden) writes:
 
>"... Dan [Healy] asked us to submit to him a concise statistical review of
>YOUR suggestions for what 'Music from the Vault' he should make available on
>CD.  So, we're asking you.  Write down your personal favs legibly and send 
>it/them to us at:
    
No need to send it to New York.  Address those letters to Dan Healy c/o
Grateful Dead Productions, PO Box 1073, San Rafael CA 94915.  Phil Lesh
is also interested in your opinions, so you can address that mail to either
man - or send your lists to both!
 
-- 
 
	David Gans	[email protected]
			{apple,pacbell,hplabs,ucbvax}!well!tnf

re:        <<< Note 39.85 by XANADU::GRABAZS "Firefly! can you see me?" >>>
   
>"... Dan [Healy] asked us to submit to him a concise statistical review of
>YOUR suggestions for what 'Music from the Vault' he should make available on
>CD.  
    
    I guess this is my cue to send Dan in a couple hundred requests for 
    10/2/72. :-) 'course I'd have to send them from a couple hundred
    different zip codes though.
    
    >Phil Lesh is also interested in your opinions, so you can address 
    >that mail to either man - or send your lists to both!
    
    Hmmmmm... Phil has an email account, maybe I'll try to drop him a line
    to suggest something like, say, 10/2/72. :-) Not sure if he'd get P'd off 
    though.
    
    - Ger 

    At the end of a nice little article in the Boston Globe Calendar for
    9/19/91 that mostly concerns the Dead's sound system, I found the
    following:
    
    "Next up, for release early next year, will be an 1968 concert from the
    Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, featuring such psychedelic epics as
    'Dark Star' and 'Saint Stephen'."
    
    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) 
    
    Now, *which* Shrine shows from 1968?
    
    DeadBase IV lists:
    
    5-17-68 - 	no setlist
    5-18-68 - 	no setlist
    7-11-68 - 	no setlist
    
    8-23-68 - 	Cryptical>Other One>Cryptical, Dark Star>St Stephen>
    		The Eleven>Death Don't, Alligator>Drumz>Alligator>Caution
    
    8-24-68 -	Schoolgirl,Dark Star>St Stephen>The Eleven>Death Don't
    		Cryptical>Other One>Cryptical>New Potatoe Caboose>Lovelight
    
    12-20-68 -	no setlist
    12-21-68 -	no setlist
    
    I don't believe that any of these are in wide circulation, but I sure
    wouldn't mind either 8/23 or 8/24!!!!  YOWZA!!!!!!!
    
    	~dave
    

That '68 vault release will be sweet!

I wonder how close to Live/Dead it will sound?

RE: Prob.

	It'll be the one with a setlist per Deadbase V where no setlist had 
	been before...

Fog

    There was a Halloween present from the Dead at Rockit Records last
    night! They just released their "space" CD, which is called
    "Infrared Roses." I haven't been able to play it as my CD player is in
    a box :-\, but here's the description from the liner notes written by 
    Bob Bralove:
    
    "Somewhere in the middle of the set of every Grateful Dead show the
    band turns a corner.They enter a musical environment without walls or
    structure. The song form is abandoned, and the very elements of music
    may be called into question. The only mandate is to explore new
    territory. It is an environment where rhythm, tone, color, melody, and
    harmony can be explored without rules or predetermination, a muscial
    adventure where composition and performance are one. This album is
    about that adventure.
    
    I have attempted to sift through these explorations distilling moments
    where the Grateful Dead magic occurs in its highest form. All the
    material was performed live by the Grateful Dead in concert. But
    instead of presenting this material as it was performed in a show, I
    have focused on specific musical themes. Some pieces have been created
    from performances of teh same night. Others have been created from
    multiple shows. I have tried to focus the energy of the selections
    while maintaining the integrity and nuance of eacxh performer.
    
    In the notes for each section, performers are listed in the order in
    which they make their entrance. Their names are followed by the names
    of some of the synthesized sounds they play. It's not a complete list
    but is intended to help the listener follow who plays what. It's
    interesting, however, to hear how each performer sounds uniquely like
    himself, no matter what sound he's playing.
    
    Join the magical voyage through the Grateful Dead's vastly different
    soundscapes. Tear up your setlists, sit back and listen!"
    
    Titles:
    
    I.
    1. Crowd Sculpture
    2. Parallelogram
    3. Little Nemo in Nightland
    
    II.
    4. Riveside Rhapsody
    5. Post-Modern Highrise Table Top Stomp
    6. Infrared Roses
    
    III.
    7. Silver Apples of the Moon
    8. Speaking in Swords
    9. Magnesium Night Light
    
    IV.
    10. Sparrow Hawk Row
    11. River of Nine Sorrows
    12. Apollo at the Ritz
    
    All song titles by Robert Hunter.

<<< Note 39.90 by KOBAL::MROGERS "Someday everything's gonna be different..." >>>
                          -< Infrared Roses is out! >-

So Mike!  is this a single CD?  I didn't quite grasp the I, II, III, IV
thing - meaning sides of lp?  or sections of music he was referring too?
probably the latter, ... I think I need a coffee!  

>    5. Post-Modern Highrise Table Top Stomp

I've done this before :)

:)
bob
    

    WOW, how much was it ? whoa someone took the time to listen to space
    for a long time to figure out a CD for it. are show dates listed ?
    I ask 'cause if he figure out whos playing what sound I hope he put
    show dates in too....
    
    Chris

Who is Bob Bralove?  


Fog_who_feels_a_deep_need_to_expand_his_mediocre_knowledge_base_of_Dead_trivia.

> Who is Bob Bralove?  

	I think he's the guy who does all the MIDI stuff for the band.
	He used to work for Stevie Wonder.  I remember reading that
	Bob controls, say, what sound will be produced from Vince's
	keys.  All of a sudden he'll be playing a fiddle patch in Maggie's
	Farm - Bob controls that.

	Ken

    Definitely have to pick up that one.

	
	i would be reall interested in hearing this recording...
	I'm one person that really loves drums AND space at
	a show but when I hear them on tape, somehow they don't
	capture the experience...I wonder if this will capture
	the magic I feel at a show during this part...

	Debess

Hmmm ... this is gonna be tough one for me ... I'd like to hear it first.
I'd say I like drums/space at shows about 20% of the time ... but when it's
good, it's real good ....

-dc

    I bet Shawn has already bought it and listened to it at least five
    times.....right Shawn???
    
    ;^/
    
    rich

re:       <<< Note 39.98 by WFOV11::BUTZE "Quick beat of an icy heart..." >>>
   

>    I bet Shawn has already bought it and listened to it at least five
>    times.....right Shawn???
    
  Now that i've stopped laughing. (sort of ;-) 

Actually I just might pick it up. But it's not high on my "want" list
at the moment.

Shawn

    I haven't listened to this one yet. I'm told the cover art is by
    J. Garcia. There has been some phenomenal Drums/Space over the years.
    If they made decent selections, this could be a pretty good album.

I happened to pick up the free Dupree's flyer that was handed out at the Boston
shows, and there is a mini-interview with the midi guy (sorry, forgot his
name).  He said the CD is broken up into 4 parts, each one with a drums then a
space.  He had Robert Hunter listen to each part then give it a name.  Many of
the space sections are actually several bits of different spaces spliced
together, as opposed to 1 25-minute space.  He says you can't tell where the
splices are.  One part is the last 2 licks to Uncle John's Band, then they go
off into space.  There's a Bruce/Vince jam, and of course some Brent stuff.  He
mentioned many different combinations of musicians in the various parts.  He
also said he didn't go back beyond the Dylan shows, so everything's after
mid-87.  Everything is also from DAT master.

adam

Didn't see IR at Lechmere's or at Strawbs yesterday...

	Too bad its all post '87, there have been been some stellar D-S's...

fog

      I picked up "Infrared Roses" over the weekend....very interesting
    stuff on this CD...the sound is crystal clear, so clear in fact, that
    in could definitealy send chills thru your body and mind if you
    happened to be in a certain state of mind...there are different
    bits of drums, space, jam leading into drums, you can mix and match
    your own drums/space....sorta like Mr. Potato-head on CD...oh, yea...
    I did have to listen to it in 3 different sittings, cause , for me,
    58+ minutes of D/S is a bit much for me to handle at one time...
    
          :-)  DaveB.

	I got a copy, but haven't had a chance to give it a listen yet. Thanks 
to Prob's for picking it up for me. $12 aint bad for a first release CD!

	The art work is all computer generated graphics, pretty neat stuff.

Fog

    I've gotta get this CD.
    
    Has anyone noticed that a lot more people dance through drums/space
    on the West coast than on the East coast (where about 50% of the
    audience _talks_ through it)?
    
    The upside is that there is lots of room for ME to dance.

    I picked up IR last weekend at Newbury Comics in Nashua.  It was on
    sale for $10.77.  I think it's pretty good, and IMHO, you don't really
    have to be a drums/space nut to enjoy it, just in the "proper" state of
    mind. ;-)

    Sound quality is excellent, and the first track is a good bonus.  It is
    a "crowd montage" where you can imagine yourself going through the
    scene outside a show ("Anyone got an extra", "I'll be your best
    friend", various vendors hawking their goods) including a drum circle. 
    Then you enter the show, hearing the crowd, whereupon the boyz take you
    into another world...

    Don

From 17.15...

PS The new OFT will be out on 3-1 and it is a compilation of 8-23,
24-68 a guy I know has heard it and says it sound absolutely awesome.


	I don't have those, nor are they on any of the big lists I have.

Anyone got a deadbase handy? Please type in setlists

    
    8-23-68 Shrine Auditorium
    
    Cryptical ->
    Other 1 ->
    Cryptical
    Dark Star ->
    St. Stephen ->
    The Eleven ->
    Death Don't
    Alligator ->
    Drumz ->
    Alligator ->
    Caution
    
    8-24-68 Shrine
    
    Schoolgirl
    Dark Star ->
    St. Stephen ->
    The Eleven ->
    Death Don't
    Cryptical ->
    Other 1 ->
    Cryptical ->
    New Potato ->
    Lovelight
    
    Sounds pretty lame, huh? ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    

	Yikes!

:-)  :-)  :-)

    YOWZA!!!!!!!   That looks better than the first one fer sure!!!!
                rfb

Would a compilation contain both shows, or would selected parts from each show
be merged into one disk?

Bruce

    I would doubt it would contain the full both shows because
    some stuff was repeated,.. probably a best of both,...
    
    But either way,.. it looks pretty fargin' cool from where I'm
    notin'
    
    :-)'s all around
    
    							/
    

	I wonder if it'll be 2 CDs or 1 CD ?

re: merging the best of both shows....

Yeah what they did was take the Dark Star from 8/23 and the Dark Star from 
8/24, and toss everything else...


 ;-)  yeahright.... ;-)

Josh

    I thought Healey's philosophy on the vault tapes was to release them in
    their entirety?  I'll listen to two days worth of Dark Star more often
    than I will to Neil Young's "Arc".
    
    Scott
    

    re: -.1
    
    Take everything Healy ever says with a grain of salt (and a variety
    of other condiments, for that matter).

Any updates on the release of OFTV II?





Jum

    Won't that be TFTV (Two from the Vault) as opposed to
    OFTV II?
    
    							/_who_feels_he_can
    							sometimes_justify
    							_his_pitiful_existence
    							_by_asking_even_more_
    							pitiful_questions
    

>Any updates on the release of OFTV II?

I just read in Dead-Flames that the release date was moved from March 1 to 
March 31.

Scott

    The release date for this is now 4/28.
    
    Bill
    

It's here!

I stopped by my local music store last night and picked up the last copy they 
had of Two From the Vault (yes, that is the title).  This is a very nice 
sounding disc, each instrument can be heard clearly (even Pigpen's keys which 
are often not very high in the mix, at least on the few tapes I have) in a 
nice stereo mix.  This one is definately worth picking up, IMO.  Too soon for a 
full review, since I've only listened to about 3/4's of the discs one time.  
The cover art, in blue, red, and gold with a photo of the what I assume is the 
Shrine Auditorium on one side, and a Steal Your Face on the other.  There are 
some other photos - one of Micky, one of Phil with a handlebars moustache, and 
an on-stage photo of Bill, Jerry, and Pigpen.  And of couse there is a photo of 
Pigpen (next to the liner notes, see below) sitting at the keys.  The packaging 
is the cardboard fold out type, just like One From the Vault.

Below is the setlist and liner notes (exuse any typos).

DISC ONE: Good Morning Little Schoolgirl (15:59)     Show dates: Aug 23-24, 1968
	  Dark Star (11:20)
	  Saint Stephen (4:40)			     Venue: Shrine Auditorium,
	  The Eleven (14:27)  <-- this is HOT		     Los Angeles
	  Death Don't Have No Mercy (8:23)

DISC TWO: The Other One (15:40)
	  New Potato Caboose (14:16)
	  Turn on Your Lovelight (17:13)
	  (Walk Me Out in the) Morning Dew (7:13)

Liner notes:

When I heard that the body of Ron "pigpen" McKernan had been found in his Marin 
County apartment, I immediately remembered a Grateful Dead concert of a couple 
years ago.  For sheer energetic joy I still think it is the best rock concert 
I've ever been to, and Pigpen was the star.

The concert was in February of 1970 at the marvelous neo-Babylonian movie 
theatre in St. Louis called the Fox.  The concert started about 2 hours late.  
The Grateful Dead had been busted for possession of marijuana a couple of days 
before in New Orleans and the seven tons of equipment that they hauled around 
the country had been impounded in lieu of bond or something.  A lot of it had 
just arrived and had been too hastily assembled and besides the PA wasn't 
working very well...

And then...along came Pigpen.  He had been shaking a tambourine in a bemused 
sort of way, holding it up by his ears as if it were a seashell and he was 
listening for the ocean, but now he put it down on top of a speaker and walked 
to the front of the stage, with Garcia, Lesh, and Weir stretched out behind 
him.  He was wearing a big brimmed cowboy hat with the sides rolled up and the 
hat band was actually a swatch of colored cloth that hung down in back by his 
long ponytail.

With the band rocking along behind him, he picked up a microphone off a stand 
and held it out in front of him the way a knife fighter would.  He made a 
dagger gesture with the mike and, even though he didn't move his feet, his body 
seemed to make a little rush forward at the audience, He poked again at the 
audience with the mike and the band cut back on the volume and left him a 
hole.  Glaring at the audience as if he had just caught the whole bunch of 
them in bed with his old lady, but with a thin smile at the corner of his lips, 
he steeped forward and then began to sing: "Without a warning...you broke my 
heart"

His body began to rock back and forth, the band cam in louder and stronger 
than ever and buddy that was all she wrote.  Pigpen shouted and growled and 
screamed, he made little rushes across the stage, he did his Big Mama Thorton 
routine and his Otis Redding routine and his Little Richard routine and the 
place just went crazy as he hopped around the stage, screaming again and again, 
"Turn on you lovelight...Turn on your lovelight."  As the concert came to a 
close with explosions of drums and shrieking of guitars, and the applause and 
cheers began swelling up from the audience, a tall black woman with the biggest 
Afro in town jumped up on the stage and began hugging and kissing Pigpen, 
swinging him around like a doll.  Pigpen just went limp in her arms and, for 
the first time all night, he grinned.

LET HIS MEMORY SHINE!
					Harper Barnes
					The Real Paper (Boston)
					April 4, 1973


TECHNICAL INFORMATION
---------------------

When we originally recorded this back on August 23-24, 1968, our record company 
then was Warner Bros. Records.  1" - 8 track was the very rage and State-of-the-
Art of the recording industry.  Because our approach to recording was then 
considered controversial (years ahead of our time), Warner Bros. would not 
entrust this equipement to us without their engineers chaperoning.  The 
engineers they sent to us were accustomed to recording Big Band style and were 
not familiar with Rock & Roll close microphone techniques.  This together with 
the fact that Mickey and Billy's drums were premixed to a track and the vocal 
and audience microphones were also combined, gave an immense amount of leakage.

When we first began making rough mixes of these tracks, we noticed the combined 
leakage of every instrument onto every track.  This caused severe phase 
cancellation and time smear that reduced the time image to nothing.  So, the 
challenge to bring back these tapes wasn't reviving the sound of the 
instruments, but, rather correcting and restoring the immense time smear 
disparity.

Enter Don Pearson, now Dr. Don the Time Master, and B&K 2032 F.F.T. analyzer.  
We used Phil's  base track for the time center, and compared this track to the 
others.  Thus we were able to measure the distance in time between the various 
microphones.  Using this information, we then transferred the delay time 
measured by the analyzer, to TC1280 delay units.  This along with careful 
mixing achieved a nearly perfect stereo image.  In headphones, you will be 
standing on the front center of the stage and you'll be able to tell where 
everyone is.

This show was recorded on two consecutive nights.  The band's equipment had 
been taken down at the end of one night and set up again the next.  We were 
able to measure that the equipment was set up approximately one foot different 
than it was the night before.  Because of  the magic of today's  technology, we 
are able to appreciate a tape that was unusable before.  HOORAY!

From Maestro Healy and Dr. Don the Time Master

Wow, that blows me away. Suppose Jerry was 5.5 feet from Phil, then, the time
smear correction would then be the speed of sound  (1100'/sec) divided by their
distance from each other, or = � millisecond, yes? 

    re .-1
    
    I get 5.1 ms, which is still pretty quick.  Actually, it was probably
    even more complicated than that, 'cause they'd have bleeding from the
    monitors and feedback from the PA. Dan Healy talked about this a bit on
    the GDH.  In addition to correcting the time base, they also had to use
    some very steep filters to isolate each instrument.
    
    Neat stuff.
    
    Jamie

    It is pretty amazing,..
    
    	I just picked up my copy from Rockit in Nashua,.. (Hi Mark!)
    
    	From only listeing to the4 first few minutes,. I can already
    tell this is Pig. Also, for those of you who like that "raw"
    guitar sound,.. this is it. LIke old tapes, you can hear Jerry
    working on the beginnings of the licks he stil uses today. They're
    a lot more refined today,.. but I love this unrefined raw feeling
    (Hogan, you listening?)...
    
    	More after a complete listen,... yes,.. while I code 8^}
    
    						.\
    

    Just in case anyone's still confused about the release date: Two From
    The Vault is in the stores.  Rockit Records in Nashua put it on sale
    yesterday.  I was there during lunch and they still have lots of
    copies.  It's packaged like OFTV but with a blue SYF cover.
    Their price was $16.99 for the double set, a little more than OFTV when
    it came out but still a grate price for a double set.
    
    After reading Healey's notes, it looks like they're going for the shows
    recorded on multi-tracks (usually owned by the studios which meant
    maybe they were thinking of live albums which means not every show from
    the early days will be on multi-track) since they can adjust the mix.
    
    Anyone know what recording equipment the Dead used themselves (i.e. not
    Warner Bros.) over the years?
    
    Scott
    

	While that's at least four gone from Rockit this lunchtime.  Robyn and
I were over there to pick it (and, unfortunatly for the budget, other CDs) up
when / came in for it.  Scott makes four.  I don't have a CD player here,
though, so have to wait 'til I get home.  Or maybe I'll go down and bug / for a
listen.

Mark

    Sorry dood,..
    
    player is booked for this afternoon... :-)
    
    This disk is starting to remind me very heavily of "Live Dead" with
    the Dark Star => St Stephen => Death don't have....
    
    Oh well ,, just eneded,.. time for disk II,.. more later
    
    							/
    

    i pick up my TFTV at Rockit at about 3pm.  It was the last one in
    the bin.
    
    tms

 Picked up mine at Strawberries in Derry yesterday..I walked in the store, the
guy said "we have it, its on sale and its right over there" :-)  Love it..

Can somebody translate Healy's comments for the lay people?





Jum

    re: Can somebody translate Healy's comments for the lay people?
    
    Yea...easy!  The tapes sounded shitty so they got out the frazmo
    discombobulator and made 'em sound grate!
    
    tms

    
    
    >	Can someone translate Healey's comments for the lay people?
    
    	No
    
    	:-)
    
    	Well OK,.. I'll try,.. although this time dimension thing is
    prett funky stuff...
    
    	First of all you have to understand the problem they were trying
    to correct. And secondly, you have to underestand that the "severity"
    of the problem is probably one of those things that the average
    "lay person" wouldn't even notice/care about...
    
    	The problem... Sound takes time to travel
    
    	So here I am,.. Mr Jerr Garcia playing my guitar and theres a mic
    ***right** in front of my amp. As I listen to Billy the drummer hit
    that downbeat I am virtually simultaneously hitting my strings,..
    The mic in front of my guitar "hears" or "records" my strings right
    at that instant,... lets call that immediately,.. and then a split
    second later,.. my microphone records the sound of Billy's downbeat...
    
    	If the microphone couldnm't "hear" Billy, there would have been
    no problem... but because it could hear him and therefore that part
    of Billy's sound that "bled" into my (Jerry's) microphone is now
    recorded,... and it is slightly out of time because the sound took
    just wee bit longer to travel from Billy's drum skin over to my mic
    than the sound coming right out of my amp did.
    
    	Now , consider Bobby's mic bleeding into my mic,.. Mickey's mic
    bleeding into my mic,.. etc etc ,... everybody is jst screwqing up
    each other's tracks on the eight track because there is no real
    "isolation"... The whole idea of multi-track recording is to isolate
    things at the record stage so they can be remixed later for a real
    "quality" production,.. but by having all the sounds from everybody
    bleeding onto all the tracks,.. well it was apparently a real mess...
    
    	So what they had to do was use all this fancy high tech gear
    to "filter" out the bleeding as best they could,.. and what they
    couldn't fix with filters that had to use this "time shift" thingy
    to try and correct for that "wee bit" of delay,... that we probably
    wouldn't notice anyway...
    
    	There is a second order effect that I won't even try to describe
    called cancellation,.. This basically is when the delays and sounds and
    frequencies (and temperatures and relative humidities and and and...)
    are all "just right" (or "just wrong" if you like) will add up to zero!
    And even while I'm wailing on Jerry's guitar :-),.. nothing is being
    picked up by the recorder,.. or "much less" than what you might hear
    listening depending on the degree of cancellation....
    
    	Now,./. Jum,... if you didn't understand this,.. its probably
    goingto take pictures or an actual demo to show you,.. although
    I gotta say I didn't quite "completely" grasp what Healey was
    	trying to describe either... It must be that "left coast speak" :-)
    
    							/
    

    yea, well, /slash, that's all find and good.  But I still say the 
    tapes sounded shitty so they got out the frazmo discombobulator
    and made 'em sound grate!
    
    tms

    Oh yeas,.. I forgot to mention that the "time shift" thingy is
    actually a slight mod of a standard discombobulator,,, although
    because the tapes were already discombobulated,.. what they really
    needed was a reverse-discomnbobulator,.. but the marketing folks
    wouldn't let them call it that so they used the code name "frazmo
    discombobulator",...
    
    By the time it went to market,,,it had a new name:
    
    	B&K 2032 F.F.T. (fast Fourrier Transformer?)
    	TC1280 (delay units)
    
    	I liked on thing,.. they chose "Phil" as the "time center"...
    
    	All you Phil Phans can be very proud if this. It basically says
    that he keeps the best time... or was it that his bass was so pumped
    that it squashed anytihng that even dared to try and "bleed" over..
    
    							/
    

    re: Frazmo or Reverse Discombobulator
    
    This is known in more scientific circles as a "Recombobulator". :-)
    
    - Gerry

RE:                 <<< Note 39.130 by PIPE::SPINE "Tom Spine" >>>
                                    -< ha! >-

       
   > Yea...easy!  The tapes sounded shitty so they got out the frazmo
   > discombobulator and made 'em sound grate!
    
    

    Geeze I'm not as dumb as I thought :-)

RE:  <<< Note 39.131 by STAR::SALKEWICZ "It missed... therefore, I am " >>>
                   -< this isn't easy, especially in notes >-

If /'s explain made matters werse, this should help...

When those tapes were made, an attempt to record each individual instrument on 
an individual track of tape was made. They had eight tracks to use, so I 
imagine there were five instrument tracks and three vocal tracks. Since the 
instruments (except drums) are attched directly to the rtecording instruments, 
there was little problem, there. The main problem was monitor sound getting 
recorded onto the vocal tracks, since the floor mikes picked up everything. the 
secondary problem was that the instrument sounds which got onto the vocal 
tracks were delayed in time from the instrument sounds which got onto the 
instrument tracks.

Hope that makes more sense of the previous explainations..

On the back of today's Boston Herald (5/13/92) there is a coupon good for 
$4.00 off any non-sale cd over $11.99.

I think this would be a wonderful disk to buy with that coupon.

...at what stores?

    Newbury also honors Tower and HMV coupons, and they all honor each
    others.  Just make sure TFTV isn't already on sale (it may be, since
    it's a new release).
    
    Scott
    

Listening to mine for the second time around.  Gotta love it.  But then
I always did like Pigpen, especially doing Lovelight!

Picked up two other cds while I was in Rockit (I can never buy just one!)
One of them is the recently released Bluegrass Reunion with David Grisman,
several others, and special guest Jerry Garcia.  I'm not too knowledgable
when it comes to Bluegrass but I love Old and in the Way and to me this
one has a similar sound to it.  Pretty good!  The other was a new Kingfish
cd.

Robyn_who'd_been_doing_a_good_job_of_not_buying_new_cds_until_yesterday_but_
is_now_getting_her_new_music_fix_and_whose_wallet_is_happy_that_rockit_has_a
_thirty_dollar_check_limit_even_though_she's_not

>       <<< Note 39.142 by NOPROB::JOLLIMORE "The road goes on forever" >>>
>
>	Newbury does have TFTV "on sale" for $16.99 :-\ regularly $18.99
>	so the coupon is no good.
>	
>	Excellent! I like it better than OFTV.  :-)
>	
>	Jay


I went to newbury comics in Nashua last night on my way home from DW and 
picked up 2FTV. It was on sale but the let me use my coupon off the regular 
price instead of taking the sale price. They said they weren't sure if they 
were allowed to do that but since I was so pleasant and obviously in need of 
the new fix they did it anyway...

GEoff

 Listening to it last night I flashed on the old days hanging around in GG
 Park or other SF locales...




 Grate stuff.



 Jum

Picked up my copy at Strawbs last night. It was "on sale" for $19.99, but I
hadda have it and there are no other music store less than $3.00 worth of gas
closer. I complained vocally that the going price is $16.99, but I just got
brushed off; Strawbs list price was $23.95. Ugh. 

Well, I'm glad I picked it up, I've _never_ heard a pre-70's tape with that
much image (stereo) and clarity: When Healy says that with headphones you feel
like your standiung in the middle of the stage, he's absolutely right!  Wow! 

What else can I say, awesome all around, Caboosee, 11, Stephen.. Ecstacy.

This kinda sh*t is why I'm a deadhead.		:-)   :-)   :-)

    Geoff,.  youmust be an excellent band manager,.. very cool and shrewd
    negotaiator I'm sure... more power to you man.
    
    							/Bill
    

With Strawberry's prices so high for CDs and stuff, I can't understand why
businesses like them are still operating!  Lechmere's constantly has good
prices on CDs, and Noteworthy, well, I'm not sure it gets much lower...

I bought my CD player in early '86, before it was a Big Thing (tm).  I used
to love going to the small mom & pop CD stores because they would have the
latest stuff... now, with big places like Tower and Noteworthy selling CDs
at a low price, lots of small places have gone under.....

     Remember back in 1987 when the Dead came to Foxboro and opened the
    show by playing the first 4 songs in order from their new album, at 
    that time, called "In the Dark".....Wouldn't it be wonderful if they
    did that same thing again with this disc some where along the way..?
    
                   ;-)  DaveB.

Justy in case anyone didn't know it, 3FTV will be the 2-19-71 Port Chester, NY, 
Show...

Truckin', Loser, Cumberland, Hurts ME Too, Bertha, Playin', Dark Hollow, 
Smokestack, China->Rider

Greatest->Johnny B. Goode, Bird Song, Easy Wind, Deal,Cryptical->Drums->
Other One->Wharf Rat, Good Lovin;, Casey Jones.

First Birdsong, Deal.

When is the due date of 3FTV?

Looks like a goodie!  8^)

And I'm 3 for 3 on not having a tape of the vault release which gives me a good 
excuse to buy it!  

Scott

    ....So....how many more vault tapes until we get a Scarlet/ Fire
    do ya suppose...? 
    
             :-)  DaveB._just_a_wishin'_and_a_hopin'

	I'd love to see a 5/77 show on CD next!!  That '71 show is alright;
i would have gone for something different though....

    I'd prefer them to keep going for shows that aren't in taping circles. 
    2-19-71 has been around for a long time, although all of the tapes I've
    heard of the Portchester run have a high pitched whine running through
    them.  Hopefully their master doesn't have that, or maybe they'll run
    it through one of their high tech combobulators.
    
    There's still tons of multitrack tapes made during the Anthem (or is it
    Aoxomoxoa?) sessions, probably sitting in the Warner Bros vault.
    They should put a post card in the next release and ask us for a list
    of shows we'd like to see.
    
    How about some fall '73 with the horns section?
    
    Scott
    

I second the vote for one of those 73 shows with horns. Those shows were 
very hot indeed and far removed from the shows the boyz do today. As I recall
the boyz also employeed someone or someones to throw fireballs out from the side 
of the stage during songs like Playin and One More Sat Night.

Fire balls were/are done withlighter fluid or other combustable kind of thrown 
above the audience. I recall being at a show in Syracuse (Onandouga War Memorial)
in the fall of 73 when they start to throw the fire balls. Someone in the
audience also had brought his own supply. By ingesting lighter fluid or similar 
liquid into his mounth and then spitting into a lit flame held at arms length he
got quite a roar both literally and from the crowd.

I think the voting idea for the next vault tape is a great one...


Jack

	A show from 1973 is definitely on the top of my want list.
	Probably my favorite year.

	/Doll-face ;-)

>    How about some fall '73 with the horns section?
    
i never knew the dead had toured with a horns section!!!
i've just got to get a tape of this!

/rich

 Those are some nice shows..I'd like to see a nFTV as one of those too..






 Jum

    So what's the deal?  Has anyone heard anything about a release date for
    3FTV?  I figured it would be this spring for sure.
    
    While I'm on the subject, is there any news of new studio recordings?
    
    Bud

    
    >>While I'm on the subject, is there any news of new studio recordings?
    
    	I've heard rumors of new studio stuff to come out in late summer -
    early fall. Anyone else hear this????
    
    								-jeff

3FTV was ready for release last october, and it was to be 2/19/71 (see 
below), Port Chester, NY.

Phil Lesh, however, heard it, didn't it like, and shelved it. This 
understandably frustrated those who put a lot of hard work into this 
effort, so I don't think they are currently working on another selection at 
this time.

            <<< NECSC::SYS_CLUSTER:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GRATEFUL.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< Take my advice, you'd be better off DEAD >-
================================================================================
Note 39.150                        Vault Tapes                        150 of 162
CSCMA::M_PECKAR "As the decnet turns"                11 lines   9-OCT-1992 09:13
                                     -< 3 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Justy in case anyone didn't know it, 3FTV will be the 2-19-71 Port Chester, NY, 
Show...

Truckin', Loser, Cumberland, Hurts ME Too, Bertha, Playin', Dark Hollow, 
Smokestack, China->Rider

Greatest->Johnny B. Goode, Bird Song, Easy Wind, Deal,Cryptical->Drums->
Other One->Wharf Rat, Good Lovin;, Casey Jones.

First Birdsong, Deal.

	I heard they shtcanned it due to technical concerns....

	I still think a release will occue but not right away 
	by any means....

    Any rumors as to when they plan to mail tickets for part 1 and
    part 2 of the tour?  I heard from a buddy here that some people in CA.
    already got their East Coast part 1 tickets and that Part 2 will be
    arriving late this week.  Tickets go on sale I think late next week
    for Atlanta, I sure hope I get tickets before they go on sale so I know
    what to do.  
    
    Randy

From rec.music.gdead, excerpts from an inteview in DDN with Dick Latvala!

enjoy.... Josh
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From: [email protected] (Eric Doherty)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Dick Latvala INTERVIEW [read this]
Date: 9 Apr 94 14:33:01 -0600
Organization: Macalester College
Lines: 126
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I haven't seen anyone mention this yet so I thought i'd post some parts
of the interview with Dick Latvala (Dead Tape Vault Archivist) that 
is in the newest issue of Dupree's Diamond News.  It provides some
important information about some of these shows we are so interested
in :-)

REFERING TO THE CHOICES FOR DICKS PICKS VOL 1:
"....But then you start re-listening and realize, God, I can't use that.
 I can't hear Weir's voice very well.  And so it was a little bit of a 
 scramble.  I learned a lot because whatever you think it's going to be,
 it ain't.  You've got to work at it, and listen, and see what the right
 one's going to be each time.  So, I came up with three ideas, and the one
 that stuck was 12/19/73, for a couple of reasons.  One, because the other
 two were 2/13/70 at the Fillmore East.  And then there was a show most
 people don't know: 10/11/77, Norman, Oklahoma.  But the quality wasn't as
 good on the '77 show, and I didn't like the idea of 2/13 because the 
 whole show wasn't that good, and there was a lot of problems with the tapes.
 Also, at the time, I was just discovering and listening to a lot of great
 '73 shows.

WHAT SORT OF CASSETTE DECKS DO YOU LIKE TO USE? (refering to making copies
of tapes for band members, etc)
 "We have a Kaba duplicating system, made by a company in Novato, CA that
 makes duplicating decks.  You can buy banks of them.

YOU DON"T USE TRADITIONAL DECKS?
 "No, this is a specific thing made by this company, and they're supposed
 to be really good decks.

IS IT REAL TIME OR HIGH SPEED?
 "Real time.  What most people seem to use is this Teac-type deck, a
 Tascam 122MK2.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN USING DOLBY?
 "Never."

EVEN WITH OLD TAPES, YOU PREFER NOT TO?
 "Well, Personally, if I'm at home making a tape, say I throw on a reel
 and make a cassette, if I use the Dolby, it sounds better.  It sounds
 great.  But you neve make tapes for other people using Dolby, because
 different decks have different systems or levels.  That's why no one
 ever Dolby-izes.  You just deal with the hiss.

THAT'S AN ONGOING DEBATE AMONGST DEADHEADS.  DO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHICH
SHOWS EACH SONG ON THE _LIVE DEAD_ ALBUM IS FROM?
 "The Dark Star/St. Stephen is from 2/17/69, FIllmore West.  But the
 Eleven/Lovelight is from 1/26/69 at the Avalon Ballroom.

AND DEAD DON'T HAVE NO MERCY?
 "I think its the 3/2/69, but because of the labeling on the tape boxes,
 I'm not sure about that.  It was a real mess sorting through 3/2/69,
 believe me.  But it's a long show.  And We Bid You Goodnight and Feedback
 are from 3/2/69.

HOW MUCH MUSIC FROM '65-'68 IS IN THE VAULT? WHEN DID BEAR START TAPING
EVERY SHOW?
 "There are only a few multi-track tapes from 1968 (4- and 8-track).  Bear
 started recording each show near the beginning of 1969.

IS THERE A SOUNDBOARD TAPE IN THE VAULT OF THE DEAD'S FIRST SHOW AT THE 
FILLMORE EAST ON 6/14/68?
 "No, so stick with the audience, folks"

CAN YOU CLEAR UP THE MYSTERY BEHIND THE TAPE THAT'S BEEN LABELED ACTION
HOUSE 1969, THE ONE WITH THE AMAZING DOIN' THAT RAG>THE SEVEN>GOOD LOVIN',
AND ST. STEPHEN>THE ELEVEN DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE REAL DATE AND LOCATION IS?
 "No, I don't know the real date, and the tape does not exist in the vault"

ARE THERE TAPES FROM THE TRANSCONTINENTAL POP FESTIVAL IN CANADA?
 "No, there aren't.  Not in the Dead's collection."

I'VE ALSO HEARD THAT INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE BAND HAVE, WITHIN THEIR OWN
COLLECTIONS, COPIES OF SHOW'S THAT ARE NOT IN THE MAIN VUALT.  AND I'M 
CURIOUS WHEATER YOU FEEL AN INDEBTEDNESS TO THE PROJECT TO TRY TO EVENTAULY
BRING AT LEAST COPIES OF THE MUSIC AND BEAR'S COLLECTION INTO THE VAULT
TO MAKE THE MAIN ARCHIVE AS COMPLETE AS POSSIBLE.
 "That's my goal.  I didn't know the band had tapes of their own.  That's
 news to me.  I'm a real compulsive, anal-retentive type when I organize.
 That's part of the reason I think I was hired.  The goal is to get all the
 live stuff isolated and as accurate as possible."

DOES HARDING THEATRE 11/6/71 EXIST IN THE VAULT?
 "Yes."

AS YOU KNOW THE 6/24/70 AT THE CAPITOL THEATER IN PORT CHESTER, NY THE 
DEAD PLAYED Dark Star>Attics>Dark Star>Sugar Magnolia>Dark Star>
St. Stephen>China Cat>Rider>UJB! IS THAT IN THE VAULT?
 "No."

WE'VE HEARD RUMOURS THAT THE VAULT DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY OF THE LEGENDARY
CAPITOL THEATER SHOWS FROM NOVEMBER 1970.
 "Right.  It's really said, isn't it?"

MANY CONSIDER THE EUROPE '72 TOUR TO BE ONE OF THE STRONGEST IN THE DEAD'S
HISTORY.  YET, THE MUSCI IS NOT OUT THERE LIKE A LOT OF OTHER TOURS.  WHAT
FORMAT DO THOSE '72 SHWOS EXIST IN?
 "Years ago, I led the attack for releasing the Europe '72 stuff, because
 it's all 16-track.  But Phil said, "We already released that." I said,
 "Yeah, but not the JAMS."  And he agreed, so he's aware of that.  But I
 don't know what will happen with it.  Dick's Picks isn't concered at all
 with the multi-tracks.  Those are at Dan Healy's discretion."

WHAT ARE THE SHOWS YOU'RE LOOKING AT, WHAT ARE YOU CONSIDERING FOR THE NEAR
FUTURE, FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO?
 "I think the most obvious things to go for are the '72, '73, and '74
 period.  That's where a lot of meat and two-track tapes exist.  And
 they're not damaged.  And there's a lot of treasures in there.  Music
 that I'm sure a lot of people don't even know about.  It's a matter of
 time.  I'm narrowing things down to try to get at everything.  It's a
 monstrous project.  Any help I can get from anyone like you or any other
 aficionado who has ideas, I appreciate, because its not like an egotistical
 thing.  I'm in a treasured position, and I take it very seriously, and 
 humbly.  I am just walking very lightly."


---

That is just a little bit of this big interview that is like 8 pages.  I highly
recomend everyone pick of a copy of Dupree's Diamond News WINTER 1994.  ITs got
a lot of other interesting stuff...I know the above questions and answers have
been on people's minds.  Dwight Holms you have at least part of the answer to
the elusive 6/24/70 SBD...maybe the Bear has them...don't know, but at least we
know the vault doesn't :-(.

Peace--Eric      [all this reprinted without premission]

>THAT'S AN ONGOING DEBATE AMONGST DEADHEADS.  DO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHICH
>SHOWS EACH SONG ON THE _LIVE DEAD_ ALBUM IS FROM?
> "The Dark Star/St. Stephen is from 2/17/69, FIllmore West.  But the
> Eleven/Lovelight is from 1/26/69 at the Avalon Ballroom.

huh?  i haven't listened closely in a while, but my recollection is that it
sounds like there could be an edit between Dark Star and St. Stephen, but that
the St. Stephen->The Eleven->Lovelight is definitely one contious jam (and what
an amazing jam it is!)

- rich

Article 48042 of rec.music.gdead:
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From: [email protected] (Dwight Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: 2/17/69???
Date: 11 Apr 1994 16:36:26 GMT
Organization: Florida State University
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.acns.fsu.edu

as cooler heads prevail (thanks, chris!) it would appear that this
must have been a *typo* and that it was 2/27 not 2/17, and that 
would (again, and still) explain the absence of any 2/27 tapes
in circulation...

the 3/2 II question still stands!!!
peace,

dwight [email protected]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       Mama keeps saying that the wind might blow,
       But standing here I say, "I just don't know."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A bit more from the Dupree's Diamond News interview with Dick Latavalalalala.

I like the part about the '77 tapes "have to be baked before playing".
I'm sure we all understand _that_ :-)  Gee, that makes a damn fine notes
personal name....  "77 tapes: Bake before playing"

Josh
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From: [email protected] (Eric Doherty)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: DDN interview correction, + mo
Date: 13 Apr 94 16:44:23 -0600
Organization: Macalester College
Lines: 110
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This is the correction to the Dick Latvala interview part about the
source dates for LIVE DEAD.

DDN: Do you know exactly which shows each song from the Live Dead
     album is from?

Dick Latvala: "The Dark Star/St. Stephen is from 2/27/69, Fillmore West.
               But the Eleven/Lovelight is from 1/26/69 at the Avalon
               Ballroom.

DDN: And Death Don't Have No Mercy?

Dick Latvala: "I think it's 3/2/69, but because of the labeling on the
               tape boxes, I'm not sure about that.  It was a real mess
               sorting through 3/2/69, believe me.  But it's a long show.
               And We Bid You Goodnight and Feedback are from 3/2/69.

That should clear up the typo in the origional post (the absolute wrong
time to mistype something :-)).

Additional stuff:

DDN: How are modern shows entered into the vault?  Is there a different
     way that you archive modern shows now?

Dick Latvala: All the modern stuff is in a separate vault, and it's 
              A-DATS lately [Alesis 8-track digital recording system],
              on super-VHS tape, the last year or two.  Before that,
              there're DATS.  Those I keep somewhere else.  Then, there's
              the VHS and Beta period, years where they were digitally
              on Beta or VHS tapes.  I try to keep the live stuff in one
              part of the vault.  But it's hard to keep it all in one
              place.  There's always more being created, and there's 
              limited space.

DDN: Since tape degrades, you must feel to some degree that this is a race
     against time.

Dick Latvala: Absolutely.

DDN: What's your feeling about it? To what degree have you found damage
     of fading?

DL: It's not so much the time, it's the batch of tape that it was recorded
    on that determines the usability of anything.  You know, there's stuff
    from '77 that needs to be baked before we can play it.

DDN: It's one play.  You transfer it, and the thing falls apart?

DL: Right.  It hold it together for that.  Anyway, that's what's going to
    have to be done to a lot of the stuff from '77, which is a great period.
    But the stuff from '69, say, I have never found much damage at all.  I
    don't have to clean the heads.  I do every time I put a different reel
    on, but I'm not getting any residue.  But some years there are.  So, it's
    not so important that it's a race against time, as it's just a vast 
    amount of stuff.  And it's not the only priority.  It's like a lot of
    things--it will be largely determined by how successful this release
    goes.  If there's some sincere interest on the part of the Deadheads, and
    the Grateful Dead band members understand this, then that will obviously
    affect them more.

DDN: Do you have any estimate as to how many hours of tape, or how many tapes
     there are in the vault?

DL: No.  Because there's all these tapes, from record projects, outtakes,
    different solo projects, special projects.  There's a miscellaneous
    catagory and a slew of different levels of organization here.  That's
    why I'm just overwhelmed every time I go in to any of the vaults.

DDN: Are you in charge of archiving the Jerry Band tapes?

DL: Yes.

---

DDN: Many Deadheads feel that the Dead organization is too close to the
     music to make objective decisions as to which shows to release.  Do
     you feel pressure from the band to stick within certain aesthetic
     confines?  We've already talked about the technical ones.  The feeling
     is that if you played the band their old music, they wouldn't know
     what we wanted to hear.

DL: There's some truth to what you say.  I know what you're trying to get at.
    As I said before, Phil is the one who will listen and is probably least
    embarrassed to hear himself, but being the creators of the music, they
    have a certain sensitivity to what they will accept.  It's going to be
    difficult each time to get things by the powers that be.  If they go
    well, and everyone is happy with them on all levels, then we'll get into
    things that everyone is wanting.  We're going to do the best we can.

DDN: If I said to you, okay, the spaceship is coming to take you away.  You
     have 15 minutes to pack.  Pick a box of tapes--your 10 favorite shows.
     What would they be?

DL: Wow.  Well, I come from the old days.  My first show was the Trips
    Festival, and from then on I pretty much gave up college.  I managed
    to graduate at San Francisco State in 1966.  But I basically was taking
    LSD and going to see the music as it occured.  And by '67, the Dead
    became the thing.  I'm heavily influenced by the music of the '68-'69
    period, because the most incredible experiences of my life occured then.
    So, I'm biased toward that period.  I would certainly grab everything
    from the old days.  But that's pretty monotonous stuff after a while.
    You can't listen to it for very long.  It's too intense.

----

from Dupree's Diamond News, Winter 1994.  Without permission ;-)

----

    Looking at the recent issue of Relix, I discovered that a GD show
    from the early 70's in Tampa Bay is available from Dick, its called
    "Dick's Picks".  Its available only through mail order, 2-CD's at 
    about $18.  The magazine reviewed it with praise.  I reader on the 
    other hand shelled out the 18 and wrote to Relix complaining that
    the song orders were altered, second set songs in the first set
    and songs not even played that evening, in addition to glitches
    and cuts.  Who to believe?  Anybody heard this relatively recent 
    release?  Are there other Dick's Picks available on CD?   I can
    get more info on the show date, songs included and ordering info
    from the magazine if anyone cares.
    
    Steve

    >>DICK'S PICKS
    
    If ya like '73 era shows -> Get It. I think its an excellent disc
    regardless if the songs aren't in order etc. The Weather Report Suite
    and HC Sunshine is worth it for me.

    A great CD, I like the 21 minute "playing".

I think the big complaint is that they took 1 song out of the beginning
of set 2 and put it at the end of set 1 in order to have the CD's
balance out nicely as far as the length of each CD goes.  If you're an
absolute purist, this might disturb you.  Oh, and some songs might be
missing due to the fact they didn't fare all that well (or were just missing)
from the tape that this CD was made from.  But otherwise it's a pretty good
CD, if you take into account a 15min or so version of Here Comes Sunshine,
which JC always passes by since he's not a HCS fan  ;-)

PeterT

	Robyn gave me this for Christmas and I think it's really great! I 
found the show listed in Deadbase and it's not all in order. But I have 
some more really great music, making me want more power out of my amp. 
I think it's a really great CD and the two disks are in a very cool case 
that is the thickness of one CD. 

I like it
Geoff

    so what if its out of order, you can always program the player (if its
    a multi-disk type) to play it in order :') I'm always thinking !!!
    
    ouch my head hurts.....
    
    
    
    KERPOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    
    only kidding ! ouch....
    
    Chris

    When the CD came out last Fall, I remember reading some interviews with
    Dick Latvala (keeper of the Vault), who picked Dick's Picks.  He said
    that the release wasn't for purists because it wasn't all there, due to
    significant edits made necessary from tape changes, etc.  They felt,
    though, that the performance was worth it.  
    
    IMO, it is worth it.  It's a great performance, and the quality is
    excellent.  I can't wait for the next one.
    
    Bud

    All right,
    
    Sounds good to me, from everyone's opinions.  Looks like I'm
    the only one without. For others without call 1-800-323-2300.
    Show date is 12/19/73.  Are there any other Dick's Picks, or
    is the only one released so far?  Sounds like that reader
    in the mag was being a little retentive, eh?
    Steve

Steve, try a dir/tit=dick (YIKES!) for more than you ever wanted to know 
about this CD...

It's the only one so far.  It's an alternative test to bring out some
vault shows that are good, but perhaps not up to the quality of the
"From the Vault" CD's.  Also, From the Vault III is sort of in limbo.
A show had been picked, but I think Phil voted it down as he didn't
think the quality was as good as he would like.  Something wierd like
that.  So far the "From the Vault" tapes are from something like
16 channel decks, but the Dick's Pick is just a 2 (or maybe four) channel
stereo tape.

PeterT

    PeterT
    originally mr latvala had hoped to release one "Pick" every 6 months
    or so, correct?
    chris
    

Dick Latvala is the keeper of the Vault, as I understand it.  The "every 6 months"
deal rings a faint bell, but I can't recall it exactly.  Of course, I've 
taken everything that reflects a schedule, the Grateful Dead, and a released
album with a good dose of disbelief.  I think Healy's original plan for
"From the Vault" tapes was one every few months...

PeterT

    I got my Dick's Picks the other day, its awesome,
    I can't wait for DP II, whenever or ifever that
    happens.  I'd be happy to drop 18 bucks every 6
    months for something on par with this.  What's up 
    with "Sugar Shack" that was played at this show but
    is not on the CD or the original reel to reel.  I've
    never heard this song, is it a cover?  Often played?
    Once played?  ne1 got this on a tape?
    
    Steve

hi,

answers to your questions are:

Yes.

Extremely rarely.

Yes.

No-one, as far as I know.  Well maybe the guys at Deadbase have it, or know
who does.

Josh

re Sugar Shack.  Supposedly Dick himself, or maybe it was David Gans,
was bummed when they found it mentioned in the set list, but no copy
of it was on the tape.  Might have been one of those set list screwups,
or just an unfortunate time for the tape to be changed, or experience
some equipment breakdown.  You know, the normal thing ;-)

PeterT

    I'd like to find a version of this song to satisfy
    my curiosity.  Wonder who's song it is?  Maybe there's
    a audience version of this same Tampa show.  I remeber
    seeing somewhere in these notes an interview with Dick
    on this release and Sugar Shack was discussed.  I think
    he said the tape was indeed being changed at the time.
    Steve

There ain't no sugar shack.
Kidd was a bit out of his head and wrote it on the reel
box for fun.  Never existed, cept in his head.

    
    What's the deal with Dick's tapes. I rec'd a flier with my Vegas tickets
    for a new Dick's picks - from the photo looks like a reel to reel tape.
    
    Sloan 

    Dicks Picks are CD's...he took them from the original reel to reel. I
    don't think  cassettes exist, cept for the ones to be made off the
    CD's..%^)
    
    rfb

	the disc itself is made to look like a reel, no?

    yes jay
    that latvala cat is one clever taperhead

Well, the "DEAD_ON_CDS" keyword got me here, so even though I'm talking
about the 100 Year Hall CD which is a Dick's Pick, not a From the Vault, 
eh this sentence is getting lost...

Anyway, I read over on rec.music.gdead that Jerry sings the second verse
of China Cat twice, and skips (forgets) the third.  Gotta admit I didn't 
notice that!  I'm too busy digging Billy K's great drumming on that China
Cat... much punchier than the Europe 72 version.

 Josh

    myself either josh
    
    but then again he sings verse 3 in place of 2 and 1 in place of 3 and 2
    in place of 1 and....you get the picture

    I disagree that 100 Years Hall is a Dicks Picks.  The DP cds are not
    available in stores, only mailorder.  The "from the vault" series are
    available in stores.
    
    In the great scheme of things, this doesn't matter a whit. :-)
    
    	dave
    

    well Probz, I believe I've seen Dick's Picks in Newbury Comix in
    Shrewsbury...maybe not, but pretty sher I"ve seen both 1 & 2
    
    Wes

    Speaking of vocals, I was told recently (reliable source) that there
    are vocal overdubs on many of the commercially available live records
    like "Skull and Roses" and "Europe 72".  100 Year Hall is, on the
    other hand, pure and unadulterated, hence perhaps the noticable
    increase in the number of vocal glitches.
    

    
    Absolutely, Rick!
    
    If you listen closely to Europe '72. you can hear the original vocals
    sometimes.  But besides that, after you listen, you can tell that the
    vocals just sound too clear and perfect to be live :^) (really!).
    
    I think Pigpen's tunes probably include the original vocal tracks.....
    
    Hogan

    Europe '72 was one of the first releases to have gone through the
    NoNoise process. That MAY account for the "too clear to be live"
    effect. Often the first uses of digital audio technologies have been
    very heavy handed and they may filtered out the cues that you
    subconciously expect to hear on a live recording.
    
    Regardless, 100 Year Hall is definitely better... :-)
    
    gary

    I'm pretty sure that 100 Year Halle is Three From the Vault, and
    not Dick's Pick's.

    /Ken

    	FWIW, Dick's Pick's 2 is available at Rocket Records? (I think
    that's the name; across DW Highway from Pheasant Lane Hell) in Nashua,
    but only as a "British Import" for $26, along with 30-40 other bootleg
    CD's (Including "David & the Dorks" with Crosby). But by mail order,
    Dick's Pick's 2 is only 11 or 13 bucks, I don't remember (though I just
    ordered the beast last week..).
    
    -chuck
    

    What is this new CD (to me at least) that is all Dark Stars?
    The material is from different shows, not a GD production,any feedback?

>    What is this new CD (to me at least) that is all Dark Stars?

	Grey Folded - say it fast with the accent in different places...

	no comment about it, as I've not heard it...

	Debess

    I've seen the vault and dicks picks releases at Newbury Comics
    but at ridiculous prices.

    re: Grey Folded.

    I've heard this is great but don't have it, yet.  Anyone know if
    GD Merchandising distributes this ?

    I think I also heard of a 2nd Grey Folded, but don't remember the details.

    /Ken

    >>Grey Folded 
    
    Gra Fol Dead -> a 2 disk set of compilations of the various Dark Stars
    from over the years all blended together into one very long version by
    the same means as Infrared Roses was created from several Drums->Space
    sessions. The first disk is called "Transitive Axis" and is the first
    half of the song/first verse and jams only. The second disk is called
    "Mirror Ashes" and picks up from there, through the second verse and to
    some sort of completion. I've heard most of "Transitive Axis" and have
    yet to hear "Mirror Ashes" but from what I've heard so far I like it
    (at times!). It's definitely for hard core Dark Star/lost in space jam
    fans. I mean here's a "song" that's the better part of 2 hours and it
    only contains 2 lyrical verses! 
    
    The first disk is available thru GDM or at places like Newbury Comics
    for $20-$25 and inside the CD case is an order form to send for disk 2
    thru GDM and it costs only $10. So it behooves you to buy the set - that
    way you average out to about $15-$17 per disk. 

    didn't know about the 2nd disk!! I have the first on tape, but must
    admit, I've yet to hear the entire thing!!!
    
    
    rfb

    I have both Grey Folded disks (sent in the card plus $11 after I got
    the first disk at Tower last year...got the 2nd disk in the mail).  I
    really love this compilation.  
    
    	dave
    

  Just as another data point...
  
  In the Burlington MA area (Circuit City/Tower/Newbury...), the Vault disks
  are reasonable -- $20 or $22 dollars (occasional daily discounts) for each
  2-CD set.

  Dick's Picks ("Made in U.K.") are another story -- $40 for the 2-CD one,
  $22 or so for the single.

  [Bear's Choice -- which was kind of a precursor of the vault offerings,
  although motivated by contractual obligations -- and Hundred Year Hall of
  of course are veery reasonable.]

  Anyway...  I had no idea about the skull&roses and Europe '72 overdubs,
  though after hearing the Vaults and Dicks (...), I was beginning to
  wonder.  - Jay

	I think they overdubbed Merl Saunders on Europe '72 as well...
	he was never there, but -is- on the record...do I have that
	right?

	Debess

  Aha...  Skull & Roses lists Saunders as playing on Bertha, Wharf Rat, 1
  more.  That could be it.  Hmpff.  - Jay

>	I think they overdubbed Merl Saunders on Europe '72 as well...
>	he was never there, but -is- on the record...do I have that
>	right?

    Definitely rings a bell!   I had forgotten about that...

    /Ken

    Hey FYI Lechmere in Nashua still has 100 Year Hall for $16.99.. 
    
    I *love* "Next time you see me"...  haven't gotten through 
    "Cryptical" yet but what I heard on the way to work was great.. 
    can't wait for the ride home! 
    
    Bob