Conference mr1pst::music

    
    Yeah, but does he have the bootleg video of Trent's friend doing the
    self-castration?
    
    I believe Trent shot the video - it's "performance art," dontcha know.
    

    I saw these guys at Lollapalooza a few years ago.  In the first sixty
    seconds of their set, they trashed the stage, pulled over all the amps,
    keyboards, etc.  The sound didn't change one bit.

    
    I like Nine Inch Nails, although they seem about average these
    days for number of good cuts per album (2, maybe 3)... if I
    stopped listening to every band that turned out to be pudding-
    heads live, I'd have to throw out half my CD collection.
    
    They recently finished a tour with David Bowie that got excellent
    reviews, FWIW. Bowie and NIN even did one set of the show together...
                                                            
    Brian

    
    I saw the NIN/Bowie tour and thought it was great. (But I like Downward
    spiral, so...)
    
    Trent was actually smiling during one of the duets (can't remember
    which one off the top of my head.)
    
    

    I've had little exposure to NIN in general, mostly what I've heard on
    radio, but...
    
    I will say that their entrance at Woodstock 94 was truly inspired theater
    and one of the few memorable onstage moments at that event.  Imo of course
    
    /rick
    

    
    An excellent entrance. I remember the energy surge that went through
    the crowd.
    
    For me, though, it was one of many memorable moments.
    
    FOr those who are wondering: NIN showed up on stage after a lenghty
    delay, silhouetted from behind. When the lights came up on them, it was
    immediately apparent that they had been moshing with the crowd in front
    of the stage. They were covered head to toe in mud.
    

    
    	Much of the soundtrack of Natural Born Killers is Trent
    	Rezner, if I'm not mistaken.
      

    Reznor.
    
    NiN is an acquired taste.  Trent's style has gone way down hill since
    he's taken on the satanic/atheist spin, IMO. 
    
    Another one jumping on the bandwagon.
    
    He was at his best in the beginning with Pretty Hate Macine.

    
    	Agreed, definitely.
    
    	He's just kind of weird now.
    

    It's a shame there's such a huge market out there for this.
    
    Mostly confused pre-pubescents trying to find their identity,
    subsequently making Trent a very rich man.
    
    Perfect victims for NiN, et al...
    
    Did you know he lives in the old Tate mansion?  Maybe he feels closer
    to his hero...

>    It's a shame there's such a huge market out there for this.

    Not sure what you mean by that.  I enjoy his music quite a bit.
    I think Downward Spiral is a very good album, though "Pretty
    Hate Machine" is more accessible.

    As used to tell my parents, I don't have to endorse the singer's
    lifestyle to enjoy his art.

    Tom

    }}Not sure what you mean by that.  I enjoy his music quite a bit.
    }}I think Downward Spiral is a very good album, though "Pretty
    }}Hate Machine" is more accessible.

    Pretty Hate Machine is no more accessible than Downward Spiral.  Kids
    are going to buy the newest material as opposed to the oldest.  What I
    meant by the "huge market" comment was that the youth is the biggest
    market for this genre of music and that it's a shame because the
    negative stuff (both subliminal and non) that spews forth from this guy 
    does not produce the mentality inducive to initiating positive changes 
    in a young person's life.  
    
    I could get deeper here, but maybe we should take it off-line so as not
    to offend anyone.  8)
    
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge NiN fan, but I know for a fact that this
    type of music hinders one's spiritual and academic growth.
    
    }}As used to tell my parents, I don't have to endorse the singer's
    }}lifestyle to enjoy his art.
    
    HAHAHAHA!  Balogne.  That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!
    You endorse him by buying his albums!!
    
    'pril

    buying the albums would be, as Tom said, an endorsement of the ART,
    not necessarily of the MAN and his LIFESTYLE...  
    
    and you "know for a fact" that listening to his music hinders ones
    spiritual and academic growth????  you've got to be kidding...  are you 
    trying to tell us that someone has taken this so seriously as to
    conduct a formal study??  or since you admit to being a huge fan, are
    you just confusing your own personal experiences with the impact on
    the rest of society??  i'm honestly not trying to belittle your
    opinion, but it sure sounds a lot like opinion rather than fact based
    on my own experiences with the music and my friends and fmaily members
    who listen to it...
    
    and i would also agree that Pretty Hate Machine is more accessible
    (meaning something akin to "having greater appeal to the masses" and
    not "more available")...  but as for what kids will buy, they will buy
    whatever they like...  new or old...
    
    i can pretty much take or leave NiN myself (so i usually mostly leave them)
    but saying that they hinder spiritual and academic growth is a pretty 
    sweeping condemnation, doncha think?  especially from a fan!  almost
    sounds like when my grandmother was upset with my mother for liking
    Elvis!  lord knows, those gyrations of his are only going to lead to 
    sex in the back of the old Desoto....  
    
    					da ve

    
    >lord knows, those gyrations of his are only going to lead to
        sex in the back of the old Desoto....
    
    Is that how you got here?  :)
    

    I bought downward spiral when it came out. - I admit it. I got sucked in
    by a a couple of songs that got air play I kind of liked. (I make that
    mistake sometimes).  I'm not much of an industrial music fan.  The
    other thing about this cd is that when I listen to it, I get depressed
    and want to drive my car off a bridge, or into a tree. It's creepy
    stuff (like T.Razor.)  YEH, he lives in the house Sharon Tate was
    murdered in.  He says for inspiration.  All that aside, I can separate
    artist & lifestyle 99.9% of the time, Charles Manson being the other
    .1% (I think he has recorded something) If I like the music, I buy it.
    NIN don't do it for me & give me sick negative vibes.  Weird video from
    the big hit of Downward Spiral however.  Cool filming - again, with
    that aura of pure creep to it.    
                                   Just another point of view.
    
                                   -zombie wolf 

    
    
    I recently unsubscribed from several music-related mailing lists
    because the useless fights about this artist who is/not an artist,
    this record/song/lyric is great/cool/stupid/mediocre.
    
    I hated NiN from the first time, in Woodstock I hated the complete
    event and NiN was just an insignificant detail
    
    	(BTW ... did you know that Bob Clearmountin shouted for
    		an aspirin after the performance of Nin being the 
    		guy at the console?, Trenz is porud about it)
    
    So, I finally liked, why?, I will try in honour to my first
    paragraph being as objective as possible (...???)
    
    
    	1. NiN is the only or most notorious keyboard rock band NOW.
    		(NOW - Don't hit me Kraftwerk, ELP and other bands fans)
    
    	2. The only or one of the fews who makes real synthesis
    	   experiments or gives new life to old sounds
    	
     	(who in the world uses a DX-something in a 
    		record now? ... and the newest synths
    		of course!)
    
    	3. The only or one of the few who makes real experiments
    	   with computer processing tools (even Bob Clearmountain
    	   doesn't like them).
    
    	   Why do we have Digidesing ProTools or something if every band
    	   wants to sound like Jimi Hendrix or The Sex Pistols?
    	
    
    Again, maybe Trenz is not the only player, but is the most notorious.
    
    And Elvis, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Genesis, King Crimson and other
    bands also made money with disoriented teens, few people rememember
    that now, but that's apart from the music.
    
    
    Carlos
    

    re: -1 Ouch.  NIN in the same sentence with the Beatles, Elvis & Led
    Zep.  Come on Carlos..... 8^)
    
    z-wolf

    -1  Actually, it wasn't in the same sentence.  8-P
    
    }}<<< Note 754.13 by ALFA2::DWEST "the storyteller makes no choice..." >>>
    
    (da ve)
    
    }}buying the albums would be, as Tom said, an endorsement of the ART,
    }}not necessarily of the MAN and his LIFESTYLE...  
    
    Whatever you say, but...The MAN and his LIFESTYLE create the ART...so 
    you're kind of begging the question here.  
    
    }}and you "know for a fact" that listening to his music hinders ones
    }}spiritual and academic growth????  
    
    Perhaps I should have used the term "first hand" instead of "for a
    fact".  It has hindered mine, anyway.  This is fact for me.  
    
    }}or since you admit to being a huge fan, are
    }}you just confusing your own personal experiences with the impact on
    }}the rest of society??  
    
    By admitting I'm a huge fan, I'm admitting I'm a hypocrite too.  I don't 
    agree with this loser's lyrics or lifestyle, yet I hunger for the 
    familiarity of his music.  I'm at odds with myself over this, you see?
    
    }}but it sure sounds a lot like opinion rather than fact based
    }}on my own experiences with the music and my friends and fmaily members
    }}who listen to it...
    
    What?  They don't have opinions?  I thought everyone did.  Oh, so
    you're and you're family's opinions are "fact" now?  Sounds like that's
    what you're trying to say here.
    
    }}and i would also agree that Pretty Hate Machine is more accessible
    }}(meaning something akin to "having greater appeal to the masses" and
    
    Oh, puh-leeze!  Accessibility has nothing to do with having greater
    appeal...it's what's in stock at your local record store.  I guarantee
    you there are more copies of Downward Spiral than Pretty Hate Machine
    at most stores.  I bet Downward Spiral "has greater appeal to the
    masses" anyway.  But we can't prove this one way or the other, so
    there's no use arguing about it.  Nirvana's Bleach album has a very
    great appeal to the masses, but I hardly EVER see it in stores...
    
    }}but saying that they hinder spiritual and academic growth is a pretty 
    }}sweeping condemnation, doncha think?  
    
    It's nothing compared to the condemnation Trent regurgitates onto his
    audience (fans).  I'm tempted to post some lyrics to back this up, but
    it would no doubt be deleted!
    
    'pr il
                                                                     

    Okay, I admit:  Accessibility does have something to do with what "has
    greater appeal to the masses"...but not entirely...
    
    See, I can admit when I'm wrong so I can't be all that bad eh?
    
    8)
    
    'pril

    I was thinking of replying to this note, but I can't.  I'm too
    busy feeling guilty for supporting Pete Townshend's drug habit
    all these years.  Plus, those Metallica messages are starting
    to sink in...

    Tom

    Oh yeah?
    
    Well:
    
    8-P

	'pril  (or 'pr il if you prefer :^)
    
    *Whatever you say, but...The MAN and his LIFESTYLE create the ART...so 
    *you're kind of begging the question here.  

	granted, the art comes from the man...  so by buying the art you 
	might support the man so he can continue his art, but i don't 
	necessarily see that as a personal endorsement...  for me the
	man and the art are not inseperable...  and not just in this
	particular instance...  as an example, if i have a beautiful
	black and white still life photo of a vase of flowers that was
	taken by Robert Mappelthorpe, does that mean i endorse his gay
	s&m lifestyle???  i don't think so... (uhh, and no inferences
	should be drawn from the example, one way or another! :^) :^) :^)

	i'm not a big NiN fan, as i said, and i make no comment at all
	one way or another about lifestyles and such...  but whatever one
	may think of the artists, there are some interesting aspects to the 
	art...  that's all...
        
    *Perhaps I should have used the term "first hand" instead of "for a
    *fact".  It has hindered mine, anyway.  This is fact for me.  

	first, i apologize if i tweaked on you a bit there... :^) i have to
	confess to having had a button pushed by "for a fact"...  

	second, here's hoping that we all get past our hindrances! (raising
	my virtual glass of dunkel weizen :^)
    
    *By admitting I'm a huge fan, I'm admitting I'm a hypocrite too.  I don't 
    *agree with this loser's lyrics or lifestyle, yet I hunger for the 
    *familiarity of his music.  I'm at odds with myself over this, you see?

	yikes!  doncha think hypocrite is a bit strong?  i mean, you 
	wouldn't exactly be the first person to enjoy the noise despite
	the message...  cut yourself a little slack! :^)
    
    *What?  They don't have opinions?  I thought everyone did.  Oh, so
    *you're and you're family's opinions are "fact" now?  Sounds like that's
    *what you're trying to say here.

	uhhh, yes and no...  yes, they have opinions, and they too are 
	varied...  no i'm not trying to say that the opinions of my friends
	and family are fact...  just that i haven't seen any evidence
	of their spiritual and educational development being hindered (which
	was the "fact" that i was reacting to)...
    
    *It's nothing compared to the condemnation Trent regurgitates onto his
    *audience (fans).  I'm tempted to post some lyrics to back this up, but
    *it would no doubt be deleted!

	i agree, posting isn't really necessary...  :^)  after all, i don't 
	think anyone's ever accused him of being "spiritually uplifting!" 

					:^)

					da ve                                                                     
    
    	ps.  hopefully we can agree that neither of us is "all bad"?   :^)

    
    
    I recommend for everybody interested in knowing the guy best,
    to read the Keyboard magazine inteview from December '95.
    
    Thanks God, Van Gogh was remembered first because of his art
    and in second place for having some access to stupidity.
    
    When I read about Van Gogh I've never read in the first place
    geeeh! ... the imbecile who cut his ear! nahh!! 
    
    As I told before I hated NiN because were another brick in building
    what I consider one of the greatest tributes to stupidity 
    (WoodStock V2.00, maybe I need to find out more about this). 
    After taking a closer look I respect Trenz a lot and I admire
    several aspects of his work.
    
    I remember after Jane's Addiction broke up, it was clear
    for me that the vocalist (Perry Farrell) was the greates a** h*l*
    of the world, he spend some vacation in Mexico, my bass teacher
    knew him and one of the kindest guy he ever knew!, even he accecpted
    to jam with my teacher at their gig at a bar.
    
    If artist and art were not things that could separate, 
    Dali could be Hitler and Mussolini could be Paganini
    
    

    da ve,
    
    }}  does that mean i endorse his gay
    }}	s&m lifestyle???  i don't think so... (uhh, and no inferences
    }}	should be drawn from the example, one way or another! :^) :^) :^)

    Um, are you trying to tell us something here?  8)
    
    BTW, I agree with your stance.
    
    }}	first, i apologize if i tweaked on you a bit there... :^) i have to
    }}	confess to having had a button pushed by "for a fact"...  

    There's no need to apologize.  But, apology accepted...  ;)
    
    }}	second, here's hoping that we all get past our hindrances! (raising
    }}	my virtual glass of dunkel weizen :^)
    
    dunkel weizen???
    
    }}	yikes!  doncha think hypocrite is a bit strong?  
    
    Yeah, I guess.  But it's probably accurate...
    
    }}	i agree, posting isn't really necessary...  :^)  after all, i don't 
    }}	think anyone's ever accused him of being "spiritually uplifting!" 

    Well, okay then!!  8)  
    
    }}	ps.  hopefully we can agree that neither of us is "all bad"?   :^)

    Of this I am convinced.  8)
    
    'pril

    dunkel weizen=beer...  more specifically, yummy beer... :^)

    
    Reznor's a strange guy, and so is Flood and some of the others
    he hangs with. But they're actually reasonably nice people,
    although I really don't see that as having anything to do with
    anything. I like NiN because the music has an pervasive angry
    growl to it that I happen to connect with.
    
    I've seen many friends get into the "Christian Perspective"
    on this and they can't reconcile the fact that they like the
    music in context of their religion. For the most part they end
    up driving themselves nuts and become chronically boring. God
    forbid that one of them, as I will now, will honestly admit
    that at the peek of sexual excitement they might actually
    THINK something like Reznor's "I want to **** you like an
    animal" line. Such people cramp themselves up trying to deny
    that they are, first and foremost, an animal... that's just
    one of the VERY unforuntate aspects of the whole creation
    myth. They get fixated on the fact that they're supposed to
    be something special, God's own image blah blah blah. Nope,
    you're a slightly more erect baboon with a bigger brain
    cavity, so get used to it.
    
    Best to ditch the part that's really screwing with your head;
    keep listening to Reznor and lose the religion! :-)
    
    -b

    As if!

    
    
    ...............That's me in the corner
    
    ...................That's me in the SPOT LIGHT  ....
    
            Loooooosing myyyyy...     DOH!
    
    - zombie Wolf

Somehow this thread is starting to remind me of that old
Cheech and Chong routine:

	(imagine stereotypical strung-out druggie voice...)

	"I used to be messed up on drugs,
	but now I'm messed up on the Lord."

-Hal

P.S.  No offense meant to anyone except idealogues and extremists of any 
      persuasion.

    i used to be messed up on the lord
    now I'm messed up on Trent!

    I used to be messed up.
    
        I still am.  And I like it!
    
    As Frank would say:
    (after all this is a music conference)
    
    "Eat that pork
    Eat that ham
    Laugh till you choke on Billy Grahm
    Jesus, Moses and Abraham,
    Ther're all a waste of tiiiiime
    ...and it's your ass that's on the line...."
    
    NIN fit in here somewhere.
    
    ~~~~~~in case my point of views are mistaken.    zombie wolf!

Back a few,

I have heard theories that Van Gogh's affliction may have been due to the paints
he used causing physical problems.

My brother is an art major and he said that they theorize that he may have been
in physical pain brought about by substances in some of paints he used.


Tim

    
    the last reply, take me bak to my original
    argument:
    
    	 Do not judge the artist by his work,
    	 know more about his/her life, but
    	 a person is not 100% defined by the
    	 work he/she mades whatever it is

   > Back a few,

   > I have heard theories that Van Gogh's affliction may have been due to the paints
   > he used causing physical problems.

   > My brother is an art major and he said that they theorize that he may have been
   > in physical pain brought about by substances in some of paints he used.


   > Tim
    
    Lead was a common ingrediant in paints... which of course leads
    to all sorts of problems, including madness... On top of that,
    Van Gogh had some tough financial times in his life; times when
    he had more paint than food. So guess what he ate? Nothing like
    a little ingested lead...
    
    -b