Conference mr1pst::music

re: .0

>    One general question is the makeup of the section.  I have in mind
>    three pieces, but my ear tells me that the optimal instruments vary
>    from song to song.  How do other bands handle this... where one song
>    might want three saxes, another a sax and two trumpets, etc?  Is it
>    common for horn players to play multiple instruments?  If I write
>    charts for a certain horn section, what if I can't get those exact
>    players for a particular gig?
    
What kind of music are you doing?  For most stuff I suspect it won't matter
all that much which kinds of horns you have unless it's three trumpets.
I'd suggest perhaps a trumpet, sax, and trombone.  Or maybe two saxes and
a trombone.

>    Regarding scores, what are the ranges for the various instruments?  How
>    are they written (what clefs, shown actual or an octive high/low)? 
>    What keys are the various instruments, and what does that mean (e.g.,
>    when I want a sax to play a concert A, what note do I write on the 
>    score)?
    
Trumpet, trombone, tenor sax, and soprano sax (most of them, at least) are
Bb instruments.  Alto and baritone sax are Eb instruments.  As for the ranges,
I'd highly suggest that you pick up a good orchestration textbook, which will
describe the ranges and characteristics of many different instruments.

-Hal

    >>  What kind of music are you doing?  For most stuff I suspect it 
    >>  won't matter all that much which kinds of horns you have unless 
    >>  it's three trumpets.
    
    Beatles.  While you're probably right that one can compromise on this
    point, there are some songs that want saxes and lots of them (e.g.,
    Lady Madonna), others where trumpets are quite prominent (e.g., Got To
    Get You Into My Life).  I'd love to get a sax player, a trumper player,
    and a third guy who could switch.  I don't hear lots of trombones in
    the music, but that could be my ignorant ear. 
    
    >>  Trumpet, trombone, tenor sax, and soprano sax (most of them, at 
    >>  least) are Bb instruments.  
    
    So when they play what they call a Bb, it sounds a concert A?  Or C?
    
    >>  As for the ranges, I'd highly suggest that you pick up a good 
    >>  orchestration textbook...
    
    I did look around some for a book at the Berklee College Book Store,
    but didn't see one that screamed for me to buy it.  Does anybody have a
    specific suggestion?
    
    							Marc

    
    
    Ooooh, some of those Beatle songs have very *interesting* horn
    arrangements.
    
    First off, horn players that switch between real brass and those
    reed-driven things are relatively rare.  So you probably need to plan
    for at least one reed man, maybe two.  One trumpet player goes a long
    way, and it's easier to find a trumpet player that can also play
    trombone (or bass trumpet).
    
    I hear a lot more than three players in some of the Beatles stuff,
    though.  So, there's another thing you can do.  Fill in some of the
    brass parts from synthesizers.  If you listen closely, you can catch
    Paul Schaefer (sp?) on Letterman's show doing this.  He's only got two
    or three actual horn players, but he gets some really good
    brass-section-type sounds going.  This is a good use for a synth with a
    breath controller.
    

    >>  Fill in some of the brass parts from synthesizers.
    
    We already do many songs that have brass using synth and/or guitar
    arrangements, and I think the sounds we get are good... I'd even say
    above average.  But there's no way we're gonna duplicate with synths
    what a real pumping horn section could give us.  That's why we're
    thinking of doing this in the first place.  Depending on the personnel
    and the particular song, though, your suggestion of horns plus synth
    could be a good one.
    
    By the way, I agree about Paul Schaeffer... his orchestral synth sounds
    in general are excellent for the most part.
    
    

re: .2

>    >>  Trumpet, trombone, tenor sax, and soprano sax (most of them, at 
>    >>  least) are Bb instruments.  
>    
>    So when they play what they call a Bb, it sounds a concert A?  Or C?
    
It's either:

    What they call a C sounds like a Bb

or

    What they call a Bb sounds like a C

It's been so many years since I wrote horn parts that I can't remember
right now.  I'll try to remember to look it up for you.

-Hal

    A Bb on a piano is a C on a tenor sax.
    
    -b

    Careful, even though the trombone is in Bb (or occasionally F) it is
    NOT A TRANSPOSING INSTRUMENT! All bass clef instruments are
    non-transposing - just write the parts as they sound- normally in bass
    clef.
    
    You NEED to get an orchestration book of some kind because it not just
    the range of the instruments, but the voicing of chords (which note is
    played by which instrument) and the particular sounds and limitations
    or each instrument that you need to know to write convincing horn
    parts. (example: don't write very soft parts (pp) for low saxophones or high
    trumpets; certain glisses and trills are impossible on trombone, etc.)
    a good book also will talk about special effects such as mutes for
    brass and "growls" on sax.
    
    If I remember, I'll try to copy down some of the books on my shelf.
    
    I would suggest two doubling sax players and trombone - or trumpet,
    doubling sax, and trombone. By doubling, I mean at least soprano/tenor
    or alto/tenor, but ... clarinet and flute are nice too, and a baritone
    sax can sometimes take the place of trombone. Trumpet player
    should have several mutes, would be nice to have flugel horn or bass
    trumpet too. Trombone player should have plenty of mutes.
    
    Of course, the more you come to depend on doubling ability, the tougher
    it will be to replace or find a sub for your horn player.
    
    I suggest you get yourself a cheap notation program, so you can try
    various combinations and print out parts in various keys. Each horn
    player should have their own part. For a complete discussion on
    notation programs, check out COMMUSIC. I guarantee the first time you
    write for horns, it won't sound the way you thought it would in your head.
    
    good luck,
    
    Neil