Conference mr1pst::music

    
    Long one of my favorite bands. I've got just about everything from the
    first album (w/I Lost My Head, etc.) through 'The Missing Piece' on
    tape. My faves were about the middle 6 recordings: Glass House,
    Acquiring the Taste, Octopus, Free Hand, Power & Glory, and
    Live-Playing the Fool. 
    
    The live release they put out really brought out the fact that they
    could replicate all the intricacies of their studio work on stage, and 
    crunch it as well (like on 'Just the Same' and a blistering medley 
    of 'Peel the Paint'/'I Lost My Head'). Didn't much care for 'Civilian' 
    and 'Giant for a Day'. 
    
    I saw them twice, once as an opening act for the Mahavishnu Orchestra
    (incredible double bill, that one) at the Felt Forum in NYC around '72,
    and as a headliner at one of the Schaefer open-air shows in Central
    Park (Starcastle opened) in '74. I was immensely pleased both times. Some 
    really fine musicianship. 
    
    I think Playing the Fool, Octopus and Power and the Glory have been
    released on CD. This and some other stuff is in Note 412.* of
    WANLAD::UK_MUSIC is a GG topic as well.
    
    I miss these guys. 
    
    Peter
    
    

    One not mentioned yet: "Interview," from around the same time as Free
    Hand.  No idea if it's on CD, which I guess was the real question...
    Glass House, Three Friends, and The Power and the Glory are by
    far my favorites.  I don't have any on CD yet, sigh. I recently read
    a rumor on the net about possible re-mastering by one of the band
    members, and re-release. Who knows.
    
    Long term goal: To get the band I'm in to play a GG tune, eventually...
    
    Tom

    
    I forgot about this one. I had 'Interview' on vinyl, and for some reason, 
    I didn't care for it much. Maybe it merits some re-investigation.
    
    Has anyone ever seen any GG live boots around ?
     
    Peter
    

    RE: .1
    
    Thanks for the pointer to UK_MUSIC. This was included in the GG note
    and is so interesting I had to clone it:
    
    ----------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.misc
Path: decwrl!hplabs!sri-unix!husc6!bbn!rochester!PT.CS.CMU.EDU!
Andrew.cmu.edu!ckk+
Subject: Re: Gentle Giant Challenge
Posted: 8 Mar 88 04:12:03 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
 
 
I get a little carried away and emotional in discussing Gentle Giant, the 
world's greatest rock band which was nearly completely ignored by the record 
buying public and finally gave up after producing some of the world's greatest 
albums and some incredible live sets.
 
Here's how I would rank the Gentle Giant LP's. I'm surprised that Erland S. 
places In A Glass House so low on his list; perhaps because he's not a native 
English speaker? That album has some of the most profound and moving lyrics 
I've ever heard and read.
 
1. Octopus, 2. In A Glass House, 3. Free Hand, 4. The Power And the Glory, 6. 
Three Friends, 7. Playing the Fool, 8. Interview, 9. Acquiring the Taste, 10. 
Giant (i.e. untitled first album with the same cover as American pressing of 
Three Friends)
 
11. The Missing Piece, 12. Giant For a Day, 13. Civilian
 
The first ten Gentle Giant albums on my list are actually my ten all-time 
favorite albums in the history of rock music (I don't know what the tenth 
would be; perhaps Sergeant Pepper, or Starless and Bible Black by King 
Crimson). Octopus and In A Glass House belong to what I'd call the exclusive 
elite category of "absolutely perfect albums" and the others come pretty damn 
close to being perfect too.
 
Gentle Giant's first album was good but was only a rock band (there's even a 
so-so cheap bluesy-rock-n-roll jam on it, but their real forte was to be in 
classical composition-group arrangement). The second, Acquiring the Taste, had 
some superhuman works on it (like Pantagruel's Nativity, with the 
quintessential synthesized beginning) and showed the promise of what was to 
come. Three Friends achieved the heights of wonder (I still cry over childhood 
friendships when I hear this conceptual album). Up to this point they had 
trouble with drummers; there's a different one on each of these albums. 
Finally the last drummer died in a motorcycle accident (a real tragedy, he was 
the best of all) and they got one more (John Weathers) for "Octopus", who 
stayed with the group forever after.
 
And "Octopus" was the ultimate perfect album from the standpoints of lyrics, 
composition, performance, production, arrangement, cover design, etc (KNOTS is 
the greatest song of all time - a tantalizing, terrifying, confusing a capella 
madrigal based on R.D.Laing's psychological brain-benders, alternated suddenly 
with childlike xylophones and crunching metal guitar-synth riffs). But it did 
so poorly in sales that the next album was never even released in the United 
States. And that next album was "In A Glass House" which is less dense than 
Octopus but still perfect, in my opinion. I will never get over my hatred for 
the general record-buying public which ignored, disliked, or never heard about 
this pair of ultimate albums.
� 
The team of the three Shulman brothers and keyboard wizard Kerry Minnear has 
never and can never be equalled for composing, group-arranging, and performing 
wondrous music. One huge mega-brain melded out of four. Plus a kickass guitar 
and drummer keeping it honest, heavy, and grooving.
 
Glass House did poorly too so Phil Shulman left the group. They got a new U.S. 
record label and tried with "Free Hand" to reach a bigger audience. Free Hand 
is still a fantastic rock album - it just uses a few less overdubbed 
instruments, and is closer to their live sound. (including the fantastic a 
capella work which they actually do reproduce live on stage)
 
Then came The Power And the Glory. Another great conceptual album about 
politics and leaders and the corruption of power, with intricate music, mostly 
with their more live rather than overdubbed sound. The song "SO SINCERE" was 
on this album. It goes from a bizarre classic cello-violin-saxophone intro 
into some real heavy odd stuff and fascinating lyrics ("....Yes. That is to 
say, No......understanding.....Wrong. He makes his promise right, with your 
hand. You'll never know why") And by the way, "Cogs in Cogs" is from this 
album......
 
next was "Interview" which had the underlying continuous theme that it was 
about being a band on the road. ("Can you describe your music?" and they all 
start talking at once saying completely different things in a fantastic jumble 
of words. Perfect!!) They were actually touring a lot at this time. Some great 
rock and roll numbers and heavy rock playing and composing, another great a 
capella work. This was the last great Gentle Giant studio album.
 
The live album "Playing the Fool" came out next. It's a really good live 
album. If you never got to see the band in concert, this album will give you a 
taste of what you missed. If you were one of those fortunate to catch them, 
this will remind you of the joy you will always savor in your heart. 
(everybody sings, a capella. Now everybody plays recorders. Now they play 
cello and violin and saxophone. Now they all play drums. Now they rock out 
wildly. Now they crunch with contrapuntal elaborate Bach-like electric rock 
music)
 
Then came "The Missing Piece". The title made us suspicious before we even 
heard it. There were a couple of songs which were reminiscent of the old 
sound, even a long classic Memories of Old Days, but it wasn't weaving quite 
the same tangled web.......
 
And then there was "Giant For a Day" and "Civilian". These are 
just a blur to me; there's some decent rock and roll moments ("I'll bet you 
thought we couldn't do it...." No, I just knew it was the end when you did!!!) 
but it's like seeing your former best friend after a near-fatal auto accident 
and a lobotomy. Rather than intricate compositions and the magic of Kerry 
Minnear, they feature the lead guitar of Gary Green. They got signed to some 
new label which tried to make them into rock stars, told them what clothes to 
wear, and even told them to STOP SMILING because BIG STARS DON'T SMILE!!!!!!!! 
This is pathetic.
 
The last three are so different, so disappointing, that I'd hesitate to even 
consider them as being produced by the same band. Same people, perhaps, but 
the Giant was gone.
 
Finally there were two compilations. One was called "Prententious.....For the 
Sake of It". I forget what the second was called.

    

    re .3 (NWD002::TUTAK_PE)
    
>    I forgot about this one. I had 'Interview' on vinyl, and for some reason, 
>    I didn't care for it much. Maybe it merits some re-investigation.
    
    	I don't much care for Interview (as much as Octopus and the like),
    either; but I'd snap it up nonetheless if I found it.
    
>    Has anyone ever seen any GG live boots around ?
    
    	Someone who used to work in my group (now an ex-DECcie) once loaned
    me a VIDEO TAPE of Gentile Giant (some kind of public television
    program from quite a few years ago -- perhaps a US broadcast of a UK
    program).
    
    	The tape quality was rather poor, but it was enjoyable nontheless.
    Unfortunately I don't remember what was on it.  (This person may be on
    the internet; if he is, I could ask.)

    Speaking of vinyl ...
    
    I can remember coming across a couple of albums before becoming as 
    gung-ho for GG as I am now, but because I didn't buy them, I don't
    remember them very clearly.
    
    One was a single-LP with a pair of large, red-and-white striped boots
    on the cover.  Was this a "best of" collection.  [I'm pretty sure it
    was in import.  This was in the late 70's.]
    
    Not long before "The Missing Piece" came out [which was one of the
    second or third GG LP I bought], there was a double LP (NOT Playing the
    Fool, which I have) that had a mostly bare cover (orangey-brown, I
    think) with a single, small photograph of one (or more) of the band 
    members on the front cover (or was it the back cover?).  Since I
    thought it might have been a collection, I didn't buy it; but I now
    wonder what it was to this day.  [Any one from NJ remember "Peaches"
    records?  When they first opened, they had everything.]
    
    
    							-mark.

    
    The single LP with the red-and-white striped boots was a 'Best Of'
    collection, but the red-and-white striped boots were red-and-white
    striped socks over a pair of woman's legs. I know--didn't have your
    glasses on that day, right ? Can't remember the name, though. I've seen
    it recently.
    
    The only 'orangey-brown' double album cover I can think of would be
    'Live-Playing the Fool'. It's kind of orangey-brown, I guess.
    
    Other than that, I'm stumped.
    
    Peter
    

    
    
     I saw Gentle Giant live back in '72 (I think). They were the opening
    act (Ten Years After was the "main attraction"). GG was *excellent*
    and for my money was far and away better than TYA.
    
     RG

    This just in:
    
    	I found "The Missing Piece" and "Giant For A Day" at a Tower
    Records (for $21.xx each).  Both were on the "The Road Goes On Forever"
    (RGF) label.  "The Power and the Glory" on this label was also in the
    bin; but it's also available on another (cheaper) label.  Since TMP and
    GFAD have rather interesting liner notes, I'm assuming that the RGF
    version of TPATG differs in its liner notes, too (though whether that
    difference is worth $10+ is debatable, I suppose).
    
    	The following blurb is in the GFAD notes:
    
    		For more info on Gentle Giant, 4 issues of
    		"THE OCCASIONAL GENTLE GIANT NEWLETTER" costs
    		�6.00 or $12.00 from:
    
    			Geir Hasnes, 
    			Classica Forlag AS
    			Ragnhilds GT NO: 10
    			N-7030 Trodheim
    			Norway
    
    		or
    			Pete Gray
    			2 Coniston Close
    			Stukeley Meadows
    			Huntingdon, Cambridge PE18 6UD
    			England
    
    		or
    			David Armas
    			3730 Stockbridge Avenue
    			Los Angeles, California  90032
    			USA
    
    [NOTE that I'm guessing on the exact format of the Norway and England
    addresses, since they were listed without linebreaks, which I added as
    my best guess.]
    
    
    								-mark.

    re .9 by me
    
>    			David Armas
>    			3730 Stockbridge Avenue
>    			Los Angeles, California  90032
>    			USA
    
    I dialed information for LA and asked for David Armas' phone number,
    and was told there was no listing at this address.  It doesn't mean
    that it isn't valid; but I couldn't call and confirm it.  The copyright
    on the back of the CD is dated 1993, and assigned to Terrapin Trucking
    Co.
    
    	The address for Road Goes On Forever is:
    
    			Unit B. 9d Park Road
    			Crouch End, London N8 8TE
    			Telephone: 081 340 4158
    
    If anyone is interested, I'll type in the liner notes (as time
    permits).
    
    
    								-mark.

    re .10

>    If anyone is interested, I'll type in the liner notes (as time
>    permits).
    
  I am very interested!

Thanks,

Arthur

                 Liner Notes from "The Missing Piece" CD
                 =======================================


        If the years 1974 to 1976 had been a vindication of Gentle Giant's
    dogged determination to be accepted on their own terms, the period
    which followed was to be something of an anti-climax, as the band
    suffered mixed fortunes in a changing marketplace.  For a number of
    reasons, "Playing The Fool", a double album of live material recorded
    on their 1976 European tour and released eight months before "The
    Missing Piece", proved to be a turning point in the band's history.

        Giant acquired a sizeable European following quite early in their
    career, the Italians, Swiss and Germans proving particularly
    enthusiastic.  The breakthrough in the States had come in 1974's "The
    Power And The Glory", and although British listeners remained largely
    unimpressed, by 1976 the band were beginning to enjoy the rewards of
    six years of hard work.  "Playing The Fool" appeared in January 1977,
    when the British music scene was in upheaval with the advent of Punk
    Rock and the so-called New Wave.  What little recognition the group had
    gained at home was cruelly swept aside by fashion, and the musical
    skills which were the cornerstones of Giant's musical philosophy were
    suddenly despised.

      Bassist Ray Shulman remembers taking stock:  "It was a kick in the
    teeth, but also a jolt to stop complacency -- it was a general shake-up
    for everybody, really.  With the pressure to become more commercially
    viable on the one hand, and the fact that we had a very loyal audience
    on the other, we were in a dilemma ..."  Chrysalis, who had seen the
    band do very well, especially in America, over the previous eighteen
    months, now viewed Giant's commerical prospects rather less
    optimistically.  "They could still rely on us to recoup our advances,
    to sell a reasonable number of records in all territories-- we'd
    become a pretty reliable act, but it was getting no bigger."

      The impact of the new music was less marked on the Continent, and in
    the States, at least for a time, its effect was negligible.  Not
    surprisingly, Giant were persuaded to concentrate on the European and
    American markets, and apart from an appearance on the BBC's 'Sight And
    Sound' (a simultaneous broadcast on TV and radio) in January 1978, the
    band never took to a British stage again.  They inclined towards a more
    direct style, making a conscious effort to inject more energy into their
    output, and with an eye on contemporaries like Genesis, adopted a less
    complex, more commercial sound.

        Classically-trained keyboardist Kerry Minnear looks back on this
    period of Giant's developmebnt with mixed feelings:  "At this stage,
    certainly, one or two members of the band were becoming frustrated by
    the straitjacket we'd made for ourselves ... Because of the nature of
    what we were, we felt obligated to play quite experimental music all
    the time.  Ray was getting quite heavily into Punk because it was just
    a total burst of energy and enthusiasm, and I think that appealed to
    him because it was so completely different to what we were.  I confess
    I was a bit nonplussed by some of the things that were going on in the
    band ... Personally, I had much less enthusiasm for breaking free of
    these restrictions we'd placed on ourselves."

        Another factor also influenced this shift to a more straightforward
    style.  Until now, Giant had taken new material out on the road only
    after it had been recorded.  There was a feeling in the group that a
    different approach might bring a new vitality to the music, and several
    of the numbers included here were played live before being taken into
    the studio.  Different arrangements were tried in concert, and those
    which worked best on stage were used when the songs were finally
    recorded, bringing a more concise feel to the end product.

        Although transitional in nature, "The Missing Piece" boasts several
    numbers equal to anything the band released on earlier albums.  "As Old
    As You're Young" is a charming example of Kerry Minnear's medieval
    minstrelsy, and "I'm Turning Around" is a powerful ballad which
    deserved a better reception than it received when issued as the first
    of two singles lifted from the album.  "Memories Of Old Days" is a
    finely-crafted atmospheric song graced by Gary Green's delicate
    acoustic guitar work, and "Two Weeks In Spain", the second of those
    unsuccessful single releases, is an excellent straightforward rocker. 
    Despite the quality of the material, "The Missing Piece" was not a
    commercial success.  It was their last US chart album, and die-hard
    Gentle Giant fans generally seemed reluctant to accept the change of
    dynamic it offered.

        Ray Shulman remains philosophical about the choices that were made:
    "Perhaps we should have carried on being ourselves and resisted advice
    from anyone else, just seen what happened.  Maybe if we'd reconciled
    ourselves to a small, loyal audience we could've stayed more
    experimental, but you can't turn back the clock, and I think that what
    we went on to do was still interesting, still very good ... From the
    outset, all the different changes in Giant happened for a reason, and
    every album reflected the mood of the band at the time."

        "The Missing Piece", available now for the first time on CD along
    with Gentle Giant's four other Chrysalis-period studio albums, remains
    a fine collection.  If anything, the range of music it includes
    emphasises more than ever the versatility of the band.  Its relatively
    poor sales say more about the changes taking place in the music scene
    at the time than they do about the album itself, and all the excitement
    of Gentle Giant's unique chemistry is here to enjoy.

                                                        Alan Kinsman.

    Many thanks for their assistance to Kerry Minnear and Ray Schulman.

    
>        "The Missing Piece", available now for the first time on CD along
>    with Gentle Giant's four other Chrysalis-period studio albums, remains
>    a fine collection.  If anything, the range of music it includes
>    emphasises more than ever the versatility of the band.  Its relatively
>    poor sales say more about the changes taking place in the music scene
>    at the time than they do about the album itself, and all the excitement
>    of Gentle Giant's unique chemistry is here to enjoy.
    
    	Just a question:  what are the "four other Chrysalis-period studio
    albums"?  I thought there were only 3 altogether:
    
    		The Missing Piece
    		Giant For A Day
    		Citizen

    Picked up "Free Hand" and "Octopus" as Strawberries in 
    Leominster, MA last week.  They seem to have some of the
    CD's mentioned in the previous replies if anyone's looking.
    
    "Free Hand" is my absolute favorite out of all GG albums.
    This band was absolutely amazing; the scope of music incorporated
    on most GG albums is facinating.  "Thinking music" to say the
    least.  BTW, I'm loving these two on Compact Disc!!
    
    Kev --