Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I think there are other notes on this topic somewhere (mod?), but I'll
    reply here anyway.  My husband and I took a vacation last spring when
    Marc was 18 months old.  We went to L.A. for a couple of days, then
    hiked in the Grand Canyon for 8 days.  With travelling time, etc. I
    think we were away for about 12 days total.  Marc stayed with my
    parents in Long Island.
    
    We debated and worried about it a lot (I remember reading and posting
    notes last year), but we decided to go.  My husband and I _love_ the
    Grand Canyon.  This was our fourth visit and third hike.  It worked out
    great.  Marc wasn't really talking much then, but we called a few times
    before and after the hike so he could at least hear our voices (no
    phone inside the Canyon :-)).  My parents _loved_ having him stay with
    them.  Most of my relatives live in N.Y., so he was also able to spend
    time with the aunts, uncles, and cousins he usually doesn't see.
    
    We made about a 20-minute videotape of ourselves reading books,
    talking, etc., but my mother only used it a couple of times.  She said
    it made him sad to see us "fade out".
    
    We're doing it again next month (the Carribean this time), and Marc is
    going to my in-laws this year (gotta give the grandmas equal time!). 
    Next summer, when he's 3 1/2, we might think about our first long
    family vacation.
    
    I think you should go and enjoy yourselves.  It's wonderful to spend
    time along with your spouse, especially if you've got 2 kids. 

    GO FOR IT!!!!!  This comes from someone who has a 3 and 7 year old.  We
    don't have a nanny nor live close to any relatives.  Therefore, money
    is always an issue for us and I'm too much a tightwad to justify it. 
    In fact we have only been away from the kids for two nights in 7 years! 
    So I think if the opportunity arose I would jump at it.  My only
    salvation is the kids are getting old enough to spend some time with
    grandparents on their own (both sets of grandparents live on farms) so
    we might be able to do this in the near future. (wish/hope/wish/pray)
    
    I agree the guilt would be hard to deal with, but you deserve it. 
    Perhaps you can schedule a "special weekend" with the kids when you
    return to give them something to look forward to and help with your
    guilt.
    
    The kids will also benefit from your week away by having two refreshed
    parents!  I have a coworker who always takes a one week vacation with
    her husband without the child (3yr old).  She just got back from a
    cruise to the Carribean (sp).  I don't think the guilt ruined her week. 
    But her child spent the week with her mother which I think helps with
    the guilt part because the grandparent welcomes the opportunity to
    spend time with her grandson who she doesn't get to see very often.
    She's also pregnant with her second and figured she had better go now
    because it might be the last trip for awhile!
    
    I agree that a 1 and 3 year old probably won't get much out of the
    trip.  I say go for it and don't let other people give you a guilt trip
    because it's usually others who cause you to feel guilty rather than
    yourself because you know how much you need it.
    
    HAVE A GREAT VACATION.
    
    Belinda

    I'm a single mom, and two years ago, when my boys were 4 and 6, I went
    to Florida for five days, and they stayed with Grammy and Grampy.  It
    was the most relaxing 5 days of my life!  I felt guilty at first, it
    was the longest I had ever been away from them.  But I knew they were 
    in good hands, and that I would be back with them soon enough.  It was
    the first vacation I had taken since they were born.  Later, in the 
    summer, I did take more vacation time and spent it all with them.
    
    Go for it!  Try to enjoy the time alone.  I'm glad I did.
    
    Kim

    No need for guilt. It's good for you all. We try to do it at least once
    a year for a couple of days (a birthday, our anniversary, etc). The
    real hassle is logistical, and since you have a live-in nanny, that
    should take care of it. Our kids are 7, 4, and 2.
    
    The first time we did this, we had one child, about 2. We went to the
    Carribean for 5 days, leaving him with his same-age cousin.  He never
    asked about us til the 4th day. We came back, walked around behind the
    house, where he was playing in the sandbox. He looked up, smiled and
    waved, and went back to playing! (Then, he's always been the
    undemonstrative type!).
    
    As a matter of fact, we're off to Newport RI for the weekend on Friday.
    Can't wait -- it's been a long winter.
    
    Kit

    
    Ah, what timing.  My husband and I just went away for a quiet winter
    vacation to Nantucket.  It was a fabulous vacation!  
    
    We opted not to bring the kids 2 1/2 years old and 8 1/2 months old.
    We were in desperate need of sleep, sleep, peace and more sleep!  My
    mother took the kids down in Connecticut (although we almost literally
    had to pack up our house - kids things - and set it all up at
    her house - that's another story!).  She wanted to have the kids with
    her at her house (so she could show them off to her friends) 
    because she's more comfortable at her own home rather than running up
    and down the stairs at our house).
    
    We called her every night at 7:00pm and talked with her to see how she
    was holding up and we talked to Andrew, 2 1/2, and heard Sam babbling in
    the background.  Everything worked out great!  Andrew didn't start to
    miss us until the day before we returned.  By the way, we were gone for
    8 days.   Sam blossomed in my mothers care.  Andrew got away with a
    little more than we would have liked, but it only took a couple days
    for him to "straighten out".
    
    We missed the kids while we were gone (it's funny, we so looked forward
    to quiet, together time, but once we had it, we thought *alot* about
    the kids).  The trick is to not let it get in the way of your good
    time.  If the kids are in good hands and you leave plenty of
    instructions, you should relax and enjoy yourselves.  
    
    It's funny, I caught a segment of mid-day call in on channel 5 (boston)
    about a week ago.  Dr. Tom Cottle said you shouldn't exclude your kids
    from your vacations.  That's fine if you can manage to get alone,
    together time to fit into your regular routine, but if you don't get
    much time together, then vacations (sans kids) is the way to go.  When
    our kids get a little older we'll most definately include them. 
    Our friends found an easy solution to this problem, they go on vacation
    for one week together, then the next week they take the kids on
    vacation (skiing or what ever).  Good solution if you can swing it.
    
    Do it, you'll think of them all the time, but you need your own time
    to relax and regroup.
    
    Nancy
    
    
    

    We often go away for one or two nights without the kids, but bring them
    with us for longer trips.  
    
    If you do bring the kids, you CAN still have fun!  We've brought ours to 
    Aruba for nine days when Caileigh was 17 mos. and again for 12 days when
    Paige was 17 mos. and Caileigh was 3 1/2.  Last year, we brought them
    --at 2 1/2 and 4 1/2--to Las Vegas (we have relatives there) for nine
    days.  And this year, I'm going to Aruba again for 30 DAYS with the
    girls.  However, we DID have relatives staying with or near us each
    time, so we got a couple of nights out without the kids, with a (free)
    babysitter we were comfortable with.  That made a big difference.  You
    could always take the nanny with you!
    
    On the other hand, I would not feel guilty leaving them for a week with
    someone they know well.  In fact, my kids will be away from their dad
    for nine days until he joins us in Aruba.  Maybe the nanny could plan 
    something "special" for that week so it's like a "vacation" for them
    too!
    
    -Tracy
     

Wendy,

    Would you enjoy a vacation camping with the kids?

    I'm going to buck the trend here a bit - so please don't flame me.  But
I think vacations with the kids are important at times.  I remember my first
camping trip when I was 4 yrs old to the Smokey Mountains.  There was a bear
that came into our campsite, stole our food, and scared my mother half to 
death - we thought it was GREAT fun!

     Yes, parents need private time alone together.  And taking an occasional
vacation alone with your spouse is healthy for everybody.  If what you
need right now is time away from the kids - then by all means go without guilt.

    But I have a bit of a problem with the premise that you can't have a REAL
vacation if the kids come along.  There are some parents who take all their 
vacations without the kids.  I am not suggesting you or anyone in this 
conference does this.  But I think those parents and children are missing out 
on something very special.  My fondest childhood memories are our family 
vacations camping in parks all over the U.S.  Believe me - I appreciated 
those vacations far more than anybody would have guessed at the time.  So
if you think you might enjoy bringing the kids along on your vacation - 
give it a try - you may enjoy it more that you expected.

    - Carol

    
    Hi,
    
    	My husband and I have taken 2 trips without the kids.  One was our
    honeymoon (sorry, no kids) and the other was a 4 day weekend.  Both
    were wonderful!  My kids are 8 and 12 so they're a bit older, but I
    still couldn't leave them alone.
    
    	My problem is that my husband has earned enough frequent flyer
    mileage for the 'round the world trip.  Which would be WONDERFUL, but
    we're talking here about being gone for 1-2 MONTHS!  I'm not ready for
    that.  Neither are they...    and for that matter, I'm not exactly sure
    when we will be.  If I wait until they're old enough to take care of
    themselves (18 or so) then I take the chance of not having a house to
    come back to!!!  I could send them off to spend the summer with their
    father, but that's almost too much like a punishment!  So, I don't
    quite know what to do.
    
    
    	Sorry to vent on your note!
    
    
    						jean

    We are on INternational Relo from Australia, and when we came over for
    Househunting, we decided to leave Andrew (then about 18 months) with
    my parents. They loved it, he certainly didn't fret. Give yourself the
    break, don't feel guilty, but next vacation (once the kids are old
    enough etc) do disneyworld or somesuch for them. (and you)..
    
    q
    

    We are in the enviable situation of working in Europe where we have
    more vaacation time and we had a live in Nanny until last year (my boys
    are 11.5 and almost 14).  When they were very little, we had an
    occassional weekend away but did beach vactions or mountain chalet
    vacations with them.  Our ski vacations when they were babies we did
    with friends who also had small children.  We left them once with my
    parents when we went out west.  I prefered vacations where we stayed
    put and didn't have to transport the whole house.  On one ski trip Mark
    (at 4 months) became very ill and I was happy to only be an hour and a
    half drive away from the pediatrician.
    
    When they were older (preschool), the nannies often wanted to take the
    children to Germany with them.  This we did between the ages of 4 and
    8.  One nanny's mother ran a kindergarten so this was fantastic for
    them.  Several lived very close to my in-laws so they also got to see
    the children and the train trip was a fun experience for them.
    
    We did a two week trip to Turkey without them.  Dirk who was 8 at the
    time was having the experience of his life spending the summer in Texas
    with his cousin  (went as unaccompanied minor).  Markus, who was 6,
    spent the 2 weeks in Germany with his aunt.
    
    We have done South American trips and Far East trips without them. 
    South America would have been too dangerous in my opinion to take them
    along and I felt that in the Far East, I wasn't willing to try and get
    them to eat the unusual foods.  Besides which, they had school.
    
    Still we tend to do the majority of our vacation time together and the
    times they aren't with us are trips where it would really not be
    appropriate.  Also, at least Dirk is now to an age where he wants to go
    on vacation without US!  Last summer he spent August on Sardinia
    with a classmate.  He also has spent two weeks last autumn in a
    mountain bike camp.  Then the schools have ski weeks and "semaine
    verte" (green weeks) when they take the children away.  The 7th grade
    on up starts the school year with a week long "learning experience" so
    we are "deserted" by them often enough that we cherish the vacations
    they are willing to take with us :-)
    
    But when they were little, I appreciated the chance to be alone with
    J�rgen.  
    
    Cheryl                              

    Since last summer we have had the opportunity for two separate nights
    without AJ. The first was completely spontaneous when my sister inlaw
    asked if AJ could stay overnight after my niece's birthday party. (my
    nephew is 3 months younger)  So what did we do, we found a local
    restaurant, had some "nibbles", shared a pitche of margaritas, looked
    at each other, and generally spent the night worrying if AJ was
    behaving or being a pain in the A** of himself.  Next morning, of
    course the opportunity was there to sleep in, what do I do, I get up at
    8:30 or so and clean the house, scrub the bathroom and tub, still
    worrying if AJ was being a pain (mommy guilt ruins everything!), picked
    up a box of donuts, as a "peace offering" for my sister inlaw and
    arrive late morning to rescue my sister inlaw from my kid.  The answer,
    he had a BALL, was no trouble, none of the three kids slept much the
    night before, and the three kids were heading for the pool when we got
    there.
    
    The second time was last month.  The week AJ was home from school
    recovering from having his tonsils out my inlaws took him overnight one
    night.  What happend, just about the same scenario.  Except it was a
    work night so the margaritas were kept to a minimum, and there was no
    opportunity to sleep in.
    
    I've decided that as much as I "wish" for nights without the kid, I
    really can't enjoy nights without my son!
    
    Maybe when he's 18.....!!
    
    Lyn

    My husband and I have yet to have a vacation alone together without
    Jackie, 22 months old.  We did all go to California in January for 2
    weeks for a family reunion.  We opted to stay at a Marriott (on a
    friend's employee discount) rather than my mother-in-laws since there
    were too many people there already.  Although we had a good time doing
    a lot of tourist stuff (Disneyland for 2 days w/the whole family,
    touring around San Diego and the mountains, etc), the trip was tiring. 
    Jackie did not adjust well to the time change, and we got up anywhere
    from 4:30-6:30am each morning.  Everyday we had to deal with Jackie
    saying "I want to go home."  It was tough.  We had hoped to use family
    members to babysit for an evening so we could get out together but
    everyone staying at my MIL's got sick, so that was not an option.
    
    There are times I would LOVE to just be able to get away; however, like
    Lyn I think I would have guilty feelings.  I think it all depends on
    the individual parents, their situation, and how ready they are to
    leave their child/children overnight with a trusted friend or relative.
    At this point in time, I'm not quite ready to leave Jackie overnight.
    
    If you opt to leave your children with your nanny, don't worry!  Your
    children know her well and they'll be in good hands.  Enjoy yourselves
    and remember that all adults need time with adults away from the kids
    now and then.  
    
    This is just my opinion (easy for me to say, hard for me to do!)
    Mary
    
                                                            

    
    Don't feel guilty.  Remember, that kids going to be living with you for
    at least 18 YEARS!!!  As long as you leave the kid good hands, there's
    no reason to feel guilty.  After all, when this kids a lot older and
    goes on trips, is he/she going to take you???  I THINK NOT!!!
    
    :^)
    Chris D.

    
    My memories of our last vacation are all too vivid right now.  In
    February we flew to Phoenix for 10 days with our 1 and 2 1/2 year old. 
    We purchased 3 seats on the plane, and most of the time spent on the
    plane was a nightmare.  The flight out to Phoenix was late at night, so
    we thought they would eventually fall asleep...wrong!  The worst
    offender was our 1 year old daughter, Kelsey.  There is no reasoning
    with a 1 year old, and she just wanted to run around.  We also cringed
    each time they came around with drinks/food, since the whole time was
    so chaotic and things fall easily off those little trays!
    
    In Phoenix we stayed with relatives, so we were able to go out for a
    few hours periodically without the kids.  The other hassle was getting
    all of the necessary equipment, i.e. car seats, cribs, high chairs...,
    for the time we were there.
    
    I recommend going on your vacation without the kids this time, then
    making it a point to spend the next vacation with them.  It has only
    been two months since our vacation, and I don't think the 2 1/2 year
    old, Shannon, remembers much about the trip.  If they have a stable
    relationship with their nanny, they probably won't have a difficult
    time with you leaving, and I'm sure you'll have a great time without
    them.
    
    Enjoy your trip to Zona (Shannon's interpretation of Arizona)!
    
    Carol
    
    *If you do take them on the plane, order special kid's meals and bring
    lots of treats and toys!

    If you expect to feel guilty being away for longer periods of time, try
    giving you and your spouse some time by just taking an overnight or a
    weekend away - it can help your relationship alot just by having
    focused time together.