Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I hope someone also had a word with Craig and Jeff about daring/telling
    Donald to do something he would get told off for.
    
    Barbara
    

For the lying aspect of your problem, see note 1057.*

Clay

    Sounds like you might have a bored "unchallenged" kid on your hands. 
    He has too much time to get into trouble and he wants to be accepted by
    the other kids.  My son is somewhat like this...he has a friend who
    will tell him things that are untrue and my son believes him "because
    he said so".  It is hard to get your child to understand that their
    friends aren't all-knowing, all-seeing onmipotent little people.  My
    son also went thru the lying bit, but he started it at age 3 and
    proceeded to continue thru to age 5.  We constantly worked with him,
    doing much of what you are doing - and praising him when he told the
    truth.  See, we would punish once for the infraction, and once for the
    lying.  Soon he found that two punishments was no fun - we made the
    lying punishment worse than the infraction one. 
    
    Sounds like you are making progress.  Just talk with him so he
    understands the position he's in when he tries to do what the other
    kids say - he ends up being the one in trouble - did any other kids get
    punished for what happened, no.  He got it all.  If he wants things to
    be fair, he has to understand and stand up for his own rights.
    
    You're not alone - believe me!
    
    -sandy
    

    There wasn't any question of lying here.  He DID NOT lie.  For
    once he told the truth!  
    
    I agree that he is bored and has time to get into trouble.  He already
    told us that he gets done with his school work early.  
    
    I guess my question is how can we get him to stop being a "follower"
    and to be a leader?  He even copies his little sister at times!
    
    Thanks for all your input and understanding.  It's nice to know we're
    not alone!

    .0> He was at the sitters all week and she was told that 
      > he was grounded all week.   We didn't realize he was 
      > still allowed to "play" in the house.
    
    What does "grounded" mean, then, to you?  This sounds as if your
    assumption is that Donald was to stay inside all week, *not playing.* 
    IMO that's pretty severe (in other words, *just begging* for more of
    the acting-out behavior).
    
    To me, "grounded" means no going to friends' houses, parties, movies;
    no having friends over at your house; probably no Nintendo or videos,
    possibly no TV at all.  Playing *is* allowed, inside or out, though a
    super-special brand new toy might be declared off limits.
    
    .4> I guess my question is how can we get him to stop being a
      > "follower" and to be a leader?  He even copies his little sister
      > at times.
    
    I'd celebrate his inventiveness (catch him at being good!), call his
    attention to the times Susan and/or his friends imitate *Donald*.  Ask
    for his "take" on situations that don't involve him (real or hypothetical)
    --you may get a fresh angle on a problem; you may also get an idea of
    how he sees interpersonal dynamics (could provide good clues to his
    behavior).
    
    Nit: I'd try to encourage independence rather than leadership, but this
    distinction may be in our choice of words to describe non-follower
    qualities.  Personally, I see little value in acquiring disciples
    ("leadership") and performance pressure, whereas creative, unique
    thought and play ("independence") involves and promotes learning. 
    Independence can inspire others without tying them to your tail like
    tin cans...!
    
    Leslie

     I'd suggest trying to get (if you haven't already) independent
corroboration that Donald was, in fact, dared to do what he did.  Sometimes,
saying "Soandso dared me" is an attempt to shift the blame, and you've still
got the lying problem.

     If you're satisfied that his action was in response to a dare, I'd
attribute it more to a self-esteem issue than boredom.  Work on his self-
esteem so that he understands that he doesn't need to do things that he knows
to be dangerous or wrong to get "approval."

     If your son is (still) into the Berenstain Bears, there is a book on the 
subject of taking dares.

Clay

    He says he didn't know "Co Co", pronounced ca ca was a "bad" word.
    
    I tend to believe him because we have never used that word.  He didn't
    learn this word from us.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting him off
    the hook for doing something another kid told him to do.
    
    My other question is, should I try to find out what happened to Jeff?
    Is that a fair question?  I kinda think it is because why should one
    get in trouble when both were involved.
    
    I also feel the teacher went overboard by taking him to the principal's
    office for such a minor incident.  I wrote her a note on Monday
    explaining that he was grounded for the whole week and I believe he's
    learned his lesson.  I truly believe that he proved that by admitting
    to doing it.  I feel the teacher should have commended him for
    admitting it and just talked to him about what he did and sent a note
    home to that effect.  
    
    I'll find out during the meeting with her.
    
    Thanks again,
    

    Unfortunately, most people are quick to criticize when they see an
    error, but not to praise when they see a hurdle has been overcome!
    
    My son has brought home a few words/gestures and asked about them.  We
    will tell him what it means (in words - he hasn't asked what those
    words mean so far i.e., the F word...) and that we don't approve of
    using them.
    
    I don't think finding out what happened to Jeff would solve anything
    other than curiosity.  Sometimes kids have to learn the world is not
    always fair the way we would want it to be.  Welcome to the real world!
    
    -sandy
    

    Pardon my ignorance but just what does Co Co mean anyway?  I've never
    even heard the expression used before and if I saw what your son wrote
    on the black board, I'd probably just erase it and continue on with my
    day to day life.
    
    Lori B.

>Apparently, "Jeff" told Donald to write these words on the board
>during recess and he did it because he didn't think it was bad...
>"The three little co co". 
    
    Now after understanding what Co Co is, I still don't understand why you
    feel he should be punished for what he wrote.  I don't think it's bad
    either.  At least he didn't write: "The three little sh*ts"!
    
    Lori B.

    My point exactly!
    
    He did overcome a major hurdle...  he told the truth!  That's why
    we didn't ground him this time because he did something right (for a
    change).
    
    I honestly feel the teacher went overboard with this.  To me, this
    was such a minor incident, she should have just handled it herself.
    I'm not saying I don't want to be involved or informed of these things. 
    I do. In fact we asked her to send a note home for these little
    incidences.  
    
    She sent a note home last night that said "the sooner we meet the
    better".  I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.  We'll find out
    in our meeting with her this afternoon.  
    
    I'm not even sure what I'm going to say or what I SHOULD say...
    
    Thanks for all the input.

    The best way to handle a confrontation that is initiated by someone
    else is to listen completely to what they have to say...then take your
    time to respond and say what you have to say.  You can probably come to
    a mutual agreement of how to handle the situation or maybe even that
    you will just have to disagree.
    
    I've told my kids that people handle situations differently.  Just this
    morning my 5 yr old said the daycare lady will "throw away his coat if
    he doesn't hang it up".  I told him it wasn't true.  OH yes it is - she
    even said so.  I explained that sometimes people will make threats to
    get the desired response even though this is not correct.  He will
    learn as he gets older what sounds reasonable and what doesn't.  Just
    feel free to talk with mom or dad if something doesn't sound quite
    right.
    
    It's unfortunate that many times what is said/implied is not what is
    understood.  I know the daycare lady was just harmlessly employing a
    tactic that she thought would work, but it had a negative impact on my
    son.
    
    Good luck this afternoon...and try not to interrupt, let him/her have
    his/her piece said and calmly and rationally come to a solution that
    you both agree on.  Remember we don't always have to justify to other
    people why we raise our kids the way we do.  As long as they are
    socially acceptable, why do I have to do it YOUR way!??!
    
    -sandy
    

One day Dirk (about 11 at the time) came home from school and asked me "What 
does f*** mean?"  I immediately went ballistic and said I don't want you 
using that word, I don't want to hear that word, it is not the type of word
we use..etc. etc. etc.

He said but Mom, "What does f*** mean???"  I fed him the same line.  Finally he
said, "But, Mom, I have to know what it means.  The other kids don't believe
I'm American and can speak English because I don't know what it means!"

(I translated it into French, told him I never wanted to hear THAT word either,
and never did the words pass his lips again [at least in my presence :-)]).

ccb