Conference moira::parenting_v3

    My son is 6 months old and has JUST started sleeping through the night.
    (I also have a 2 yr old who keeps me jumpin' too!).  So I KNOW what
    it's like to drag!
    I even went to my family doctor about it (looking bad feeling bad).  He
    suggested I go back to taking my pre-natal vitamins.  It has helped
    alot!!  I can tell a difference if I forget to take them even one day.
    
    (P.S. You may want to check with doctor first, pre-natal vitamins are
    strong...too much may not always be a good thing, especially for an
    extended time.)
    
    Good luck!

    If you are like me, who needs a good night sleep to feel good,
    then it will be a long time until you feel good again.
    
    I have a 3.5 yr old and a 16 months old.  Ever since my 3.5 yr
    was born, I rarely have a good night sleep.   Occasionally, I
    do get a good, non-interrupted night, and I can tell the difference
    next morning.  Because of lack of rest, I try to maintain my energy
    by eating a good diet.  Exercise will also keep me going.
    
    Wendy_who_woke_up_3_times_last_night
    

    If you have the chance to exercise, definitely do it. It does make a 
    big difference, but you have to stick with it. I do aerobics, and
    sometimes it's hard to get myself there, but once I am there, I
    feel great. I know it's hard, but maybe you and your hubby can
    switch off on the weekends. What we do, is one of us sleeps in
    on Saturday and the other on Sunday. The other one gets up with
    Chris and then after a few hours, gets the other parent up, since
    by then Chris is calling for them.
    
    It helps a bit, then at least you'll have one good day of rest!!
    
    -Sheila
    

    My 18 month old started sleeping through the night at 4 weeks! Yes,
    that's right - with a few nights here and there up being sick, losing
    the pacifier etc...So, how come it took me almost 6 months to start feeling
    somewhat back to normal (9 months to "fully" recover)?? Certainly wasn't 
    due to lack of sleep, or lack or exercise since I started back at aerobics 
    when she was 2.5 months old. For me, it seemed to be just that extra bit 
    of activity (and emotional level) such as picking up toys, cleaning up 
    spills, fighting the diaper changing skirms, doing more laundry,
    dealing with the tantrums - CONSTANT motion. After 18 months, I'm just 
    NOW starting to enjoy the bedtime hour, where I'm not too pooped-out to 
    kick back and enjoy a good book!
    
    Never underestimate the endurance of a parent!!
    
    Thank goodness I have a husband that pitches in - day and NIGHT!
                                                              -----
    
  Julia (After_all_that_still_enjoying_it)

    Wendy, are you still nursing him?  If I remember, you are. I think that
    contributes to your being tired.  Plus, Spencer is a big baby, so it
    probably takes a lot of energy to produce the milk for him.
    
    I nursed Gina till she was a year old.  But she probably didn't weigh
    what Spencer weighs now until she was a year.  (18 pounds or so,
    right?)
    
    Give yourself a break.  Everyone responds differently and heals
    differently.  You gave birth, are now working, not getting enough
    sleep, and are nursing.  That's a lot more stress than your body was
    accustomed to when you just had to get yourself well after a surgery.
    
    Gina's almost 21 months and I'm still frequently tired, since she wakes
    us up nearly every night (last night 3 times...yawn).
    
    judy

    I agree about the nursing. I weaned Jake at 8 months and had a surge of
    energy afterwards. Lots of my friends experienced the same thing. 
    
    -Andrea-

    
    My daughter is 18 months now and I nursed her until she was 3 months
    old -- I can remember my mother saying "you always LOOK soooo 
    tired" while I was nursing...
    
    By the way, although it may not be EVERYDAY...there are still some
    days when I am SOOOO tired!
    
    Sheryl (Who_can't_wait_to_do_it_all_over_again!)
    

    Wendy,
    
    I'll have to disagree with the last few about nursing contributing for
    exhaustion...for me, anyway...
    
    With Katie, I started feeling better about 3 months, when I was able to
    sleep eight hours again, but then started feeling totally wiped again
    when I went back to work (at four months)...by about 9-10 months, I was
    back to normal.  I nursed her until 22 months.
    
    Same thing with Jenny...fine at around 3 months, when I started
    sleeping...then a nose-dive at back to work...felt human again about 9
    or 10 months.  She's still nursing. (16 months)
    
    And actually, nursing helped me get more sleep, as when they did wake,
    I'd bring them to bed, nurse, and go back to sleep.
    
    I vote with the "lack of sleep" crowd...especially as you mentioned
    that Spencer has nights when he's up every hour.  
    
    I'd recommend treating yourself as you did (I assume) immediately
    post-partum...plently of good food, rest when you can, and let the
    "unessentials" (ie not baby or work related) slide.
    
    Take care,
    
    Susan
    

    It took me a year before I felt well again, I didn't breastfeed either. 
    I still have times when I feel so tired I am dazed.  I use to beat
    myself up for not being able to finish all the housework and such. 
    That was just adding stress on to things.  Now I do what I can and the
    rest will have to wait.   
    
    My husband is only home two days a week so I have EVERYTHING to do on
    my own.  All that and working 40 hours a week takes it toll.  My son is
    wonderful though (17 mos) and makes it all worth it.  We have alot of
    fun together.
    
    I know what you mean though, sometimes I long for the days when I could
    take the time to take care of myself.  Now I do the best I can with the
    amount of time allowed.  
    
    Kathy

BAD news here!

It is supposed to take *2* years for your body to get back to normal (or
as normal as it ever will be).

It took my wife generally about a year to start to feel normal again, but
the impact of kids running you ragged makes you wonder if you will EVER
feel NORMAL again.  (Even as a husband and father, I don't think I've
ever recovered from the sleepless nights during her pregnancy and the
weeks after babies came home!)

Sorry to be a wet blanket!

Stuart

    re .0
    
    If I were you I wouldn't listen to all of the P****ng and M***ing in
    these replies. It pretty much depends on how you treat yourself and
    your baby. With our first son, (a C sect) my wife was swimming and playing
    tennis about 4-5 months after the birth. #2 sone was born 8 day ago,
    and already my wife is off on major shopping jaunts (and I thought I
    could slow here down... :-( )
    
    If one out of kilter night throws you out for a week, then you are
    running too close to the "physical" edge. 
    
    1. Check your diet. Lethargy is usually a sign of poor diet (well
    relatively poor, remember you are feeding two, and your body will push
    the nutrients towards your milk rather than into your own body. Get a
    doctor to prescribe some good post-natal vitamins (don't grab
    off-the-shelf, as a lot of them, will show up in the baby, before you
    see the signs...
    
    2. Rest and exercise. contradictory, I know, but both are needed. If
    you feel exhausted, nap. But don't avoid exercise. Work into it gently.
    Start with walks, and isometrics, and work slowly up from there.
    
    3. Start weaning your baby. If it's up at 2 AM for a feed, get Dad to
    give it some water (Boiled, then cooled to remove bugs). With our first
    son, we had him sleeping from 7 pm to 7 am at 6 weeks. It was simply a
    matter of stretching out the feeds, and then interspersing them with
    water. He soon lost interest in waking up. After the first month or
    two, night feeding becomes a matter of habit rather than necessity.
    If you are feeding every 2-3 hours (and waking for it, then it is
    having a major toll on you.) 
    
    q
    

         Sorry to be another wet blanket here but, I felt back to normal
    within a couple of weeks.  In fact, the next day I was all ready to go
    ahead and do it again and my labor was 2 days long and induced.  So, I 
    guess it all depends on who you are.
    
    
                                     ---Sue

    As the other replies have implied, it seems not so much to be the
    recovery from the delivery, but the recovery from those first few
    months. Provided delivery was without physical complications
    (c-section, rips or cuts, excess bleeding, etc) physical recovery
    is quite quick. Within 4 weeks of delivery EVERYTHING was back to
    normal for me.  (and I HATE physical exercise!). 
    However, it's the care of the newborn that will drag this out for you,
    and make your spouse pretty tired too. 
    Keep your spirits up, and be good to yourselves (pamper yourselves when
    you can...) 
    Just think of it; I am looking FORWARD to feeling like you are now!
    
    Monica

    Re .10:  What's the reference on it taking two years to get back to
    normal?  Never heard this before.  I'm finishing my second trimester
    and haven't slept through a night since this began, what with bladder
    pressure and the two year old's night terrors. It is getting me down
    now and I don't see it getting better.  Somehow, looking at another 2
    years 3 months of being not tip top is quite excruciating.  

    It personally took me 6 wks to fully recover. Except for the fact that
    the uterus doesn't get back to it's pre-pregnancy  state for at least 1
    full year. (nursing moms are the exception, in this case it's quicker)
    By 4 months after the baby came I had lost all pregnancy weight gain. 
    So I suppose it depends on the person, and how easy or difficult the
    delivery was.  
    
    You will recover, it just takes some women longer to heal than others.
    
    Sandy

Somewhere or another we were told (Lamaze classes for our first if memory
serves) that if you stopped nursing at say 9 months, it would take about
2 years for the hormone levels, muscle tone etc to recover to non-pregnant
non-child-bearing conditions.  i.e. for your body to finally decide that
you are no longer pregnant / post-pregnant.

Obviously you can help muscle tone etc a lot by exercise.  Hormones will
vary depending on how long you nurse.

Now how all this affects you in terms of "wellness" is another matter -
for some until hormones return to normal levels they never feel "well"
and for a relative few they only feel really "well" when they ARE pregnant.

The recovery to wellness does vary a lot due to the stresses of raising
family though.  If stresses are high "wellness" will take significantly
longer.

Stuart

    
    Wendy,
    
    Everybody is different but I have to agree with the comments about
    nursing.  It takes a lot of energy to make food for two.  With both
    my children  I noticed a BIG increase in my energy level when I quit
    nursing, 6 months with #1 and 12 months with #2.  I'm a lunch time
    runner - I used to run 3 10k's a week.  Nursing affected both my times
    and endurance.  {My mom made some analogy about how you don't run 
    milking cows on a farm !}    
    
    I can remember being bone-weary tired by Friday with my first, who
    had a big appetite like Spencer, so tired my whole body would ache.  
    My solutions then were to hire a cleaning lady and go to bed 7:30 p.m..  
    I did finally give in and ask my husband to get up after the 3rd or 4th 
    awakening.  If we had extra breastmilk - he'd give that to the baby if not,
    formula.  Spencer should be ready for solids soon.  This will take some
    pressure off you and your system too.  It'll be more like feeding 1.5!  
    
    DIGITAL's flexible work week made life much easier with # 2.  I worked
    in the office on MWF and home on T TH for a total of 30 hours per week. 
    I did this for the first year and it was much better.  I don't remember 
    too many days of being dead tired like I did with my first.  I'm
    planning on this same schedule with our third due in August.  
    
    Hang in there,
    
    Rochelle
    
    P.S.  My OB prescribed prenatal vitamins and iron during pregnancy,
    lactation and 3 months following.  

    Please also see the following related notes:
    
       425  WONDER::BAKER        17-OCT-1990    12  post-partum illnesses
       698  RAVEN1::HEFFELFINGER 11-FEB-1991     0  D.A.D.   (Depression
    							After Deli
       767   SUPER::WTHOMAS      14-MAR-1991    40  Remaining Placenta
       889    SAHQ::FLEMINGA     10-MAY-1991    37  Losing Weight after
    							Baby
      1081  TBEARS::JOHNSON       8-AUG-1991    19  Postpartum Depression
      1128     ICS::NELSONK       6-SEP-1991     9  1st period after
    							weaning from b
      1291   VMSSG::KILLORAN     28-JAN-1992    12  Hair loss after
    							pregnancy
    

    My son is 8 months old and I am down to nursing hime only once a day. 
    I have a lot more energy now.  He is also sleeping through the night
    which helps.  I think that part of what ws running me ragid was trying
    to keep up with pumping milk at work.  I was down to my 
    pre-preganany weight about 4 months
    after having Lee.  Now that I'm not nursing very much, I have started
    putting on weight.  Everything is feeling tight again.  Did anyone else
    notice this after they stopped nursing?  I probably have to re-adjust
    to my pre-pregnancy eating habits.
    
    				Mary

    
    I second the pre-natal vitamins.  And iron.  I wish I had continued
    with my 1st because I had soooooo much energy with my second (even with
    a VERY JEALOUS and "high maintenance" 21- month old at home too).  I
    don't even remember feeling worn out one day after my delivery.  I'm
    sure it was those vitamins.  I also agree with the exercise - it helped
    me to feel great through my entire pregnancy.
    
    Kristen

    
    
    re: .11 
    
    Pardon my sarcasm, q, but....as a man, I can certainly see where you 
    would be an authority on post-partum health and would feel free to 
    categorize the women's replies here as "P****Ng and M***ing".  
    
    Carol    

    re .21
    
    I called it P****ng and M***ng because that is what it is/was. A poor
    Woman says "Hey I have a problem, what do I do?" And all she gets is,
    "Me too", "It'll last for years", and other general curl up and die
    type responses. My response was an attempt to put the other comments in
    the category in which they belong, of basically non-constructive "Me,
    too". As for not understanding the trauma of Post Partum, I am sure
    that I never fully will, but that doesn't exclude me from being able to
    pass on suggestion and knowledge that has worked well, in our family
    and close friends... 
    
    q
    

    .22> My response was an attempt to put the other comments in
       > the category in which they belong,
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sez you!
    
    > of basically non-constructive "Me,too".
    
    There are some (many?) of us who consider "Me too" to be very
    constructive (as in, "oh good, I'm NOT crazy, at least not because of
    this issue... there ARE other people out there experiencing this
    weirdness").
    
    >  suggestion and knowledge that has worked well, in our family
    >  and close friends... 
    
    I consider that to be constructive *too*.
    
    Leslie

.0>>   I'd like to take a sampling of how long it took you (or your wife)
.0>>   after the baby to feel good again.
    
    Also, if you re-read .0, the basenoter was not asking for help in what
    to do, she was simply taking a survey of other people's experiences.  I
    think hearing these type of "me too" responses is exactly what she was
    looking for.

    	Yikes, this (poor...hmm) woman was indeed interested in hearing
    from others and if they had experienced something similar (the beauty
    of this notes file IMHO).

    	To be perfectly honest, I'd rather hear the "me toos" than the "my
    wife went on a super shopping spree a few days after her second baby
    was born" (does this mean I should have gone shopping to prove that I
    was not run down? As it was I ended up taking Spencer to Graduate
    seminars when he was 6 days old and ended up paying for it with
    hemorrhaging).

    	Yes, diet is something to be checked, yes rest and exercise are to
    be looked at. But weaning my baby? Isn't that a rather drastic step to
    fight tiredness?

    	As a follow up I went to my Doctor yesterday and she is having
    blood tests run to check for anemia and hypothyroidism (see next
    note). Although she said that it was possible that something would show
    up, she really doubted it and said that this was basically the price
    one paid for working full time, being a new mother, taking Graduate
    classes, having recently had the flu,.....

    	She (mother of two little ones) told me that they are drilled in
    Medical School to *never* tell a patient that they know how they feel,
    but she wanted me to know, as she put her arm around my shoulder that
    she knew exactly how I felt.

    	I left feeling a little better.

    			Wendy

I had the most wonderful pregnancy and the most awful delivery.  Wendy, like
you, I had had several surguries, although maybe not as major as yours.  I had
a C-section where neither I nor the baby was in very good shape.  2 yrs and
3 months later I had Markus by VBAC.  I worked until they were both born (no
choice, the only way to keep my job) and was back to work 4 weeks and 8 weeks
respectively after the births.  (Yes, that's four weeks after a caesarian).
One year later I had the hemorrhoids from Markus removed.

Did I feel lousy and run down!  You bet.  I felt like that from the time they
took Dirk out of me till I'd fully recovered from the hemorrhoid operation.
Of course you could say I did it to myself.  Afterall, I didn't "have" to 
work (hah) or "have" to run the house the way we felt comfortable or "have" to
hire and maintain an au paire because that's the only way to work with kids
here.

In the end, we make choices or have them thrust upon us.  We, as mothers
working outside the home, put extra demands on our system.  We can't "be nice"
to ourselves and pamper ourselves as we probably should.

So, Wendy, the only advice that I can give you is that yes, it's normal.  You
can help yourself as everyone here as said (tonics, exercise if you can stand
it, rest when you can grab it :-) but in the end, your system is going through 
major changes that you may have mentally accepted but physically have not yet
been able to cope with.

But, in the end, even this will pass.  For some of us it is longer.  But I look
at this huge 13 yr old boy I have who was born at less than 5 pounds.  What
a pleasure and joy they are to my life!  Sure, it took five years.  But I'm
enjoying them for the rest of my life.

ccb

I pushed so hard to get Markus out that I could hardly walk afterwards.  It
took me 5 days before I was able to make it 10 steps to the elevator, survive
the trip in the elevator and walk the other 10 steps to the physical therapy
room.

When I got there, I collapsed flat on my back on the floor.  There was this
woman with an absolute flat tummy doing vicious calisthenics on the mat next to
me, hoping up and down and generally wearing me out just watching.  I said to
her, "Wow, you are really in great shape!"

She said, "Yes, I feel great!", I asked her if she was about ready to go home.
She said she hoped to go this afternoon or tomorrow.  I asked when the baby
had been born.

Her answer, "Oh, this morning!"

Demotivated me for the entire rest of the day!

ccb

    About exercise, do what you can!
    
    I was an exercise nut, not so much now, but still I was doing
    stretching exercises and leg lifts *hours* after my daughter was born
    by C-section.  It definitely made me feel better to exercise, doing
    what I could until I felt stronger.  We're sure that our daughter
    thinks Jane Fonda (I have several of her exercise tapes) is a member of
    our family.  In fact, when she recently went through an terrible bout
    of separation anxiety, the only way to calm her was to put on a "'cise"
    (her word) tape.
    
    The vitamins definitely helped (I nursed for 9 months) and the other
    thing was a change in attitude.  I eliminated everything that didn't
    absolutely have to get done.  As I remember, my husband and I sat down
    when my daughter was 4 months old (the basenoter's child is 4 months,
    right?) and figured out what in our lifestyle was going.  For me, it
    was because I was going back to work (part-time, only, so even this
    might not help those who go back full-time!) and it definitely helped
    maintain (re-gain?) my sanity.
    
    "They" (?) do say the child's first three months are the mother's fourth
    trimester!  You're just making the transition to being parents and
    refocusing your lifestyle.

    I felt better by redefining what "normal" meant!  I do not feel as I
    did physically before Nathan, but most days I feel pretty good; I never
    did get back to the pre-Nathan weight, but have worked on accepting a
    one size jump, and have tried to stay most organized to alleviate as
    many external pressures as possible.  
    
    So--I'm back to normal, but normal's different, and I'm doing great!
    Adrienne
    

    RE: -1
    
    I agree, normal now is different.  As soon as I learned that what was
    "lounging for a few hours on the couch on a Sunday reading the paper"
    will not be and began to rearrange how to get rest it became better.  I
    was very tired the first four months and emotional.  When John was 5
    months old we had our anniversary and when my husband asked what I
    wanted, I said "sleep".  We now try to alternate, as one other reply
    stated, and when one is tired, the other watches the baby.  He is now
    18 months old and life is more scheduled.  However, I also found that
    what makes me tired is when I do not open my mouth and tell my husband
    when I need help or when I want to do something.  That causes me to be
    irritable if I wait until he offers, while he is resting on the couch
    and I am running around doing all sorts of things.  His opinion of what
    needs to be done is much lower than mine.  I like to ensure bills are
    paid and we have lights and food.
    
    So try to schedule rest, ask for help, and as friends of mine have
    said, this too shall pass.
    
    Michelle