Conference moira::parenting_v3

    For *today's* kids, I saw on TV that (I believe Prodigy) is selling an
    on-line Encyclopedia, which is constantly updated to current standards.
    My personal opinion, it sounds great at least from the viewpoint of
    being always current.
    
    However, a good "old fashion paper version" wouldn't hurt either.  I am
    a firm beliver that kids need to be taught how to reference and look up
    needed material.  As a kid, weekly Library period in Junior High was a
    great experience.  I took a lot away in knowledge.
    
    Lyn

    To tell you the truth, I have 2 sets on them.  The first was bought at
    a public library sale for about $5, 1956 version.
    
    The second was bought at a different public library sale for $2, 1975
    version.
    
    Between the both of them, anything that my kids currently need to know
    about history is there.  As a matter of fact, the 1956 ones go into
    much more detail about earlier events.
    
    Bob O.
    

    I understand your desire to buy a good set for your kids, but IMHO,
    you'ld be much better off having your kids learn to use a public
    library for research.  I think in these days of incredibly rapid
    changes in technology, an encyclopedia will become outdated almost as
    soon as you're done paying for it.  FWIW, when I was a kid, my parents
    had a complete Encyclopedia Brittanica in the house from 1948 that
    my father got when he was a kid.  I almost _never_ used it.  
    
    A true story on the same subject... I used to have a favorite hardcover
    dictionary of the same vintage that I used in high school, took to
    college, etc.  My husband finally convinced me to throw it out years
    later when he suggested I look up the word "digital", and the
    definition was
    
    "Relating to the fingers" !!!

I'm not sure that there ever is a "good" deal on encyclopaedias, other
than visiting your local library.  Good encyclopaedias like Brittancica,
Americana and so on are definitely excellent resources, but you can spend
THOUSANDS on them, especially if you buy the year books.

I would imagine that the Funk and Wagnalls (famous for their dictionaries
which I would only class in the range of acceptable to good) also fit that
class with an encyclopaeia ... acceptable ... basically you are going to
get pretty well what you pay for.  And if you want a lot of information
you are goiing to pay for it!

You really do have to consider how much use it is going to get considering
what it will cost.  Are your children book worms ?  How old are they ?
I didn't start to make good use of an encyclopaedia until about grade 7.
If my parents had bought one earlier some of the info could have been
out of date by the time I got it!

Stuart whose wife wants to buy our kids an encyclopaedia too ... and is
         very skeptical of its value, considering the library is literally
	 5 minutes walk away and open on Sundays too!

    
    We always used the Columbia Encyclopedia my mom got when
    she was on Jeopardy in 1965!
    
    

    We have also (fleetingly) thought of buying encyclopedias but look
    at what has happened in the world just recently, what with the
    Germanies and the (now defunct) USSR. All of that information must now
    be updated.

    	No sir, no encyclopedia for us, even when Spencer gets older. I agree
    with an earlier reply that said leave the encyclopedias at the library
    and let the kids learn how to research topics.

    	Wendy who is even holding off buying a globe until the *very* last
    minute

Years ago a typical door-to-door "sell-you-anything" came around and sold
my parents a Colliers Encyclopedia that they certainly couldn't afford.  It
came a book at a time, a "free" bookcase, and a set of Great Books.  I can't
think of any single thing that contributed more to my learning to research
than that set of books.  Years ago I inherited those encyclopedias and to
this day they give me enjoyment, as old as they are.  

We lived one block from the public library.  We didn't "need" those books
but everyone of us used them.

I will probably invest myself soon in an encyclopedia for my children.  I will
buy the best I can buy, probably Larousse because I need a French set for my
children.  A good quality set, well bound, with high quality pictures and
information is worth every "sou" (penny to most of you :-) you spend.

I have a children's encyclopedia that I picked up in the flea market.  The
children have used that in their primary years.

We also have a German set.  We are a house that loves books.

The Colliers came with a research service.  We got a book of coupons and, if
there wasn't enough information on a subject, you could send them the question
and they would send back a packet of information.  I used it once and it was
quite good.  But I had to look hard to come up with something not in the 
books!

Cheryl

    My parents bought the Americana Set and subscription to their
    "annual" 2 years before I was born. As I child I DID use it to
    look up "static" information (living in French Canada, it was
    very difficult to find a library that HAD an english set!), but
    in the long run that's really all they are good for: "who was 
    Sir Isaac Newton and what does a jelly fish look like"....etc -- at
    a time when most volatile information is changing at a very rapid
    rate. I LOVE collecting books and am tempted to buy a copy myself,
    but costwise, its probably better to use the other resources at
    hand (unless you live far from these sources).
    
    I guess its also time to trade in my 1965 Webster Dictionary soon.
    Best Christmas gift my uncle ever gave me....8-)
    
    Monica

    See  discussions of this in the books notes file, THEBAY::BOOKS
    
  1117   42183::COOPERM      14-NOV-1990     0  looking for a children's 
    						encyclopaedia
  1263  CARWSH::MURRAY       12-NOV-1991    10  Dad's knowledge tapped. 
    						Seeking Encyclopedia!
    
    	Laura
    	co-mod

    RE: -1
    
    We use the PRODIGY service.  It is good for a quick, up-to-date
    information, although the content is not really in depth as you might
    expect from a good set of encyclopedia.
     
    Also, if you want to use the PRODIGY, make sure that you can access the
    phone line locally.  We live in Acton, and the closest place you can call is
    in either Marlboro or Leominster, neither of which is local.  They have
    a lot of interesting software stuff for kids, but it can be expensive
    when it is not local.  You also have to pay the monthly service fee,
    which is about 10 dollars.  
    
    As for the 'traditional' encyclopedia,
    You may want to talk to the librarian at school or public library.  It
    also depends on what age level your kids are in.  I was recommended the
    WORLD BOOK between 8-14, and the Junior Edition of the Encyclopedia
    Britannica for the older kids.  

    re .17
    
    I think that so much depends upon the children.
    
    Some people have reported that they nearly wore them out while others
    never took them off the shelf ... and these are all successful well
    educated people.  Some children get their information well from
    encyclopaedias and others by other means.
    
    I would not invest the thousands in the large encyclopaedias unless
    a) I wanted them, or b) I was confident my children would use them.
    And for that you have to see what their response is to resarch in
    books.  There's no way that I'd spend all that money in case they
    might use them.
    
    The less expensive encyclopaedias like Funk and Wagnalls certainly
    are better in terms of affordability, but you do get what you pay
    for to a large extent.  I'm sure they would be very useful, and if
    you want to speculate on whether a Britannica would be used, it would
    be a less expensive place to start ... but at nearly $300 ... it's
    still expensive and I think that most of us could think of other
    more pressing ways to invest that!
    
    Stuart

    I can't imagine having grown up without our World Book set of
    encyclopedias.  I didn't use them much as reference books (maybe a bit
    up until around 6th grade), but I spent *lots* of hours just reading
    them.  What a wealth of information there, to browse through!  We
    haven't yet discussed the issue of an encyclopedia for our kids, but
    I bet we will get a set.  But then, we have a much greater than average
    amount of books in the house anyway.

	cheryl_who_could_spend_nearly_her_whole_life_reading_happily

re: .11, Stuart..

>    re .17
>    
>    I think that so much depends upon the children.
> ...    

   Ah, the wonders of technology... now computers are so fast that you
   can read reply .17 even before its complete... :-)
   
   Sorry, its late and I had to comment...
   
   Now back to your regularly scheduled note on encyclopedias...
   
   - Tom

    I would definitely wait until your children are old enough to use them
    regularly. My parents bought our encylopedia's when we were real
    little. By the time I got to use them, most of the information was
    out of date. They regret having done it now, and even suggest waiting
    to us for our little ones.
    
    -Sheila
    

    It seems like a lot of money to pay for something that will be incomplete a
    at best within five years of it's purchase.  We always had lots of
    books at home but as we got older found we needed to use the library
    more and more. 
    
    Since we have a PC at home now, we're planning to look into Prodigy or a 
    similiar service when the time is right.
    
    Cathi

    We had a 1906 edition of the "Book of Knowledge", a odd combination
    of a magazine and an encyclopedia (there were regular features every
    few pages like bound issues of a magazine, but it had looked like
    an encylopedia and had a bound-in atlas, and index, etc.).
    
    I read it with great enjoyment, and probably learned a lot.  While 
    post-1906 history and science were missing, they were informative
    factually and all the more interesting for being so old.  I remember
    learing about inflation by default, as the prices in the old "How To"
    articles were so low; the different "normal life" assumed made me
    feel the impact of recent history on daily existence, and so on.
    
    So maybe once they're old enough encyclopedias start getting better
    rather than worse.
    
    			-John Bishop

	Well, I'm one of those parents who spent the money at an early
	(1st grade) age and it was well worth it !!   I got my son the
	"New Book of Knowledge" encyclopedia set through a children's book
	company (Grolier's).  The books are specifically geared for the
	elementary school age kids.  They sent 1 volume for review/approval, 
	then volume 2, then volume 3, which were all paid for on arrival.
	Then, if you still want to go thru with it, they sent the remainder 
	of the set all at once, with a per-book payment plan.  My son, even 
	tho' he's only in 1st grade, is an avid, advanced reader and LOVES 
	the books - during Hurricane Bob, he spent time during the power 
	failure reading about hurricanes and tornados to understand the 
	differences !!  And it's a great quick resource when he starts
	asking all those questions that I learned answered to in school
	but have since forgotten !!

	Oh, and BTW, Grolier's also published yearly updates, which I'll
	be getting this year.  So I fully expect that significant changes
	like the USSR will be updated !!

	Debbi J

    We have two teenagers who have been using a 20yr old set of World Book. 
    The set was left over from when I was in school and to be honest, there
    has neevr been enough information!  My kids always need to have at 2-3
    sources, which means they're going to the library anyway - we are very
    glad we didn't purchase a set!  My sister has a 10 year old and 5 year
    old and was going to purchase a set last year.  She checked with the
    local libray and they suggested she not spend the money!  She didn't
    and boy is she happy today!!  With all the changes in the world it
    would have been a waste of money.  If you have access to good libraries
    I'd say that's your best bet.
    
    Kathy

In terms of world changes, I don't believe that buying an encyclopaedia
at any time is a waste ... just don't buy before you need to.  What is a
waste is to buy one and have it sit on the shelves unused or rarely used,
especially if you've spent mega$ on it ... like Britannica or Americana.

I have used old encyclopaediae on many occasions without any problems.
The hitch is just knowing what is likely to be dated information.  Given
the amount of info in an encyclopaedia, the amount which will become
dated is actually quite small!  A person who actively uses any reference
texts will be aware of this.  A person who uses them rarely may not be
so aware.

Stuart

re .19:

Following your logic, wouldn't it make the most sense to buy a used set?
I imagine they're pretty cheap.

From many of the entries in here, there seem to be two camps:

	a) Always a good buy and heavily used no matter how old it gets
	b) A waste of money because it is hardly used, rapidly dated, and
	   the library can do it better.

I guess we fit into the first category.  In our house, encyclopedias are fun
things to look up anything and start family discussions, etc.  Heck, I even 
like to read _dictionaries_!  I can never "just look up one thing".

We were watching a film the other evening on the Morrocan incident which led
to the use of the term "gun-boat diplomacy".  Afterwards, we had out three
encyclopedias looking up the history of the incident, Teddy Roosevelt (my
German husband wanted to know more about him), etc, which led to us looking
up the Riff Wars, and so on.  IT's fun! 

When Dirk did a school report on Rio de Janiero he used the following sources
from our house in addition to what he could find in the school library:

	1) Colliers Encyclopedia (in English)
	2) Alpha Childrens' Encylopedia (in French)
	3) Brockhaus Encyclopedia (in German)
	4) South American Guidebook (in German)
	5) Guide to Rio (in French)
	6) Foods of the World Cookbook (in English)
	7) A History of Music (in English)

The fun thing is that, having all these books in the house, we could pour over
his discoveries with him, discuss what he'd found, help him with translations, 
etc.  And, as one noter mentioned, it was a great lesson in economics to see
the rate of inflation and the devaluation of the crusada when comparing the
data from the 30 year old encyclopedia with that from the current guidebooks
to what we had experienced on a recent trip there.

For us, ALL books are an integral part of our family life.  When I think of 
something or have a question I don't want to run to a library, I want to look it
up NOW.  I spend tons of money on books.  Almost as much on bookshelves because
we're forever running out of space.

So if books are for you as they are for us an integral part of your family life
and you buy an encyclopedia, you probably will find yourself in category (a)
above and never regret it.

If, on the other hand, you're just looking for a reference tool for kids doing
homework, you're probably better off leaving that to the libraries.

Just MHO,
Cheryl

    
    
     I can lend some insight here to what people buy and why. 
    
     I was one of those people back 5 to 6 years ago that would give
    you a call and try and sell you an encyclopedia set. In the course of
    6 months I must have visited 50 to 75 homes and called 100s of people.
    
      Anyway people that had encyclopedias when they were growing up were
    more prone to buy a set for their children. Because they enjoyed them
    year round. People that never had a set but had young children would
    buy a set regardless of how much they were, and what their income was.
    A lot of those people that couldn't afford them, also lost them when
    they couldn't make the payments.
    
      It wasn't till an appointment, I had in downtown boston did I
    realize that their was a better way. After I finished my sales pitch
    the husband brought me over to his PC, and showed me the same exact
    encyclopedia I was selling, but avaliable on a CD. I think he said it
    was avaliable for under $99.00 and updated quite often.
    
      I personally grew up using the encyclopedias in the library, but even
    the newest set was never always up to date, especially if I wanted to do a
    report on a relativly current topic. So I guess as the kids grow up
    we'll send them off to the library to use a set there or the
    libraries computer system with a CD, or add a CD drive to our PC. 
    
      But granted when the powers out, its nice to have some good books
    to read. But at $1200.00 for a set compared to a $99.00 for a disk,
    they can wait for the power to come back on.
                                                

    After reading all the replies I just had to add my .02 worth.  I
    remember as a young child asking LOTS of questions all the time and was
    very interested in Geography and maps.  I LOVED my encyclopedias, World
    Book that my dad bought me when I was about 8.  I used them alot when
    I was in grades 4-9 and enjoyed the year book updates in High School. 
    By High School I spent more time in the local library which was not
    close to us, and required a driver to get there.  I liked the fact that
    I could look up anything anytime and fill my curiosity without waiting
    to go to the library.  Plus I never liked the fact that I could not
    talk in the library.  My folks would always tell me to "Look It Up"
    when I had questions and often when I would read about one thing that
    would lead to another. 
    
    Yes they get out of date as was the case when I was growing up, Africa
    was changing daily and so was the Middle East.  but it is also good to
    have info on what was, then update it with yearbooks or almanacs
    (another fun thing to have).
    
    We plan to start John on something simple and inexpensive when he gets
    a bit older to get him interested then if the curiousity is there, go
    for a larger set.  
    
    I kind of liked the idea mentioned about getting one from the library
    sales.  Alot of info is the same, then update with yearbooks and
    current periodicals or other research books.  
    
    Perhaps when we join the human race and get a PC at home we might look
    at that option too.
    
    Either way, I think it is good to have research materials close at
    hand to look things up when you are younger, in addition to the
    library,
    
    Michelle
    
    

    Well, add me to the ranks of someone who "Grew up with a set and never
    wants to be without one!".  I did start buying the Funk and Wagnall,
    $5.00/book at the supermarket, but every time I went to use them, they
    either had no or very minimal information on what I was interested in. 
    It was actually more frustrating than having nothing at all.  We had a
    set of World Books when I was growing up, and with 5 kids, they got
    VERY well used.  As a matter of fact, my husband still has the set, and
    he uses it for our boys, who hopefully will get to use it more when
    they learn to read.  After all, a bee is a bee is a bee, and there's
    not that much different over the years.  Granted this set is 20 years
    old, and we'll probably replace it when the kids near Jr. High, but I
    must admit the only reason I ever turned in a research paper in my life
    is because we had a set on encylopedias at home.