Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    Rebecca was rocked to sleep alot too, and she didn't give me any
    problems.  But what I used to do was not good either, I used to let
    her fall asleep in her bouncy chair every night and then put her 
    in her crib.  My family thought I was doomed, but I stopped doing
    it when she was 4 months old and has been put to bed at 7:30 every
    night since and has not give me any problems!!!  She is 9 1/2 months
    old.  My mother-in-law watches her one day a week and she tells me
    that she rocks her to sleep for her naps, I thought oh no, she 
    is going to want me to do this, but actually I don't think she
    likes much!!!!  How old is Michael?  He will eventually break from it
    I think.  I also loved it when Rebecca would fall asleep in my arms
    at the night time feeding.  I used to cuddle her!  Made me feel wanted.
    
    Enjoy this time with your little one, because time flies!  Rebecca will
    be a year old in two months.
    
    Good Luck!~
    
    Kim
    
    

    I too sometimes rock/hold my daugther Caitlin till she falls asleep.
    She is also tough when trying to get her to take naps and go to bed
    even though I know she is tired. I have heard (from my mother-in-law)
    that you shouldn't hold a baby alot or they will get spoiled. How can
    you spoil a 7 month old when all she wants is to be loved. Maybe when
    she gets around 1 year will I start to change my ways.
    
    So I say KEEP ON DOING WHAT YOU WANT, You will know when it's time
    to stop.
    
    

I sometimes rocked my children to sleep and we all loved it.  When we didn't
have time then they didn't get rocked.  Dirk had very bad colic and rocking 
was one of the few things that really soothed him.

Friends of mine couldn't get their little boy to sleep at any time when he was
very small without rocking or holding.  But when he got older, around 8 months 
or so, he also didn't seem to need it any longer.

And no, you can't spoil a baby with too much love.  You might introduce a few
bad habits :-) but it won't be the love that does it :-)

ccb

    
    Stephanie's nightly routine includes bath, PJs, brush teeth, any
    medicine, then bottle (her only one of the day) in her room with lights 
    out. then into bed when she's finished drinking.  I wouldn't say we
    rock  her to sleep because she's usually drifting off when we put her
    down  (15 mos).  She'll hand us the bottle and turn into your chest,
    put her arms around her neck and lay ther until you carry her to the
    crib.  This has been a gradual evolution.  We used to give her the
    bottle downstairs and she'd be just about asleep by the time we got her
    up the stairs.
    
    I too enjoy this quiet cuddle time and probably won't give it up until
    she's big enough not to want it anymore.  Too soon they won't want
    anything to do with us.
    
    She only usually wakes up in the middle of the night if she's not
    feeling well.  Then if she doesn't lay back down (I always go check
    onher when she's crying because I just can't stand for her to think
    no-one cares)  I'll take her into bed with us or rock her until she's
    relaxed enough to go back to her own crib.  We usually don't let her
    stay in our bed long if we can help it because we don't get any sleep.
    
    
    Bev

    We usually rocked AJ to sleep, well into toddlerhood.  For us it just
    became a habit since he had to have a breathing treatment for his
    asthma almost every night.  His nebulizer machine took about 10 minutes
    to complete, and the medication was delivered using an oxygen face
    mask.  Despite the loud noise of the machines most nights he was
    completely or almost asleep when we put him down.  Even the nights he
    didn't get a breathing treatment we would rock him for about 10 minutes
    and put him down, semi-asleep.
    
    Even now we've incorporated a modified version of this, which of late
    has been working like a charm.  A half hour before bedtime, we shut out
    the living room lights, and he sits with one or both of us for "quiet
    time", we watch something geared towards adults like the news.  Then at
    bedtime he gets into bed, and we rub his back for about 5 minutes,
    lights out, and sometimes either his little portable radio or tape
    recorder playing softly (this habit comes with questionable thanks to his 
    preschool teacher, who uses this method at naptime).
    
    I don't consider this an unchangable habit, simply because he can go to
    sleep without it.  None of our sitters use our bedtime routine, except
    the dark room, quiet time before bed.
    
    Just my comments,
    Lyn

    I used to rock Kat to sleep, and I had a terrible time later on
    getting her to go to bed when she was awake.  She didn't want to
    give up that time with me and she didn't understand the concept of
    "going to sleep" since she'd always just sort of drifted off. 
    
    So with the other two, I'd just rock them until they calmed down,
    then put them to bed drowsy.  That seems to have worked very well.
    
    --bonnie

    As with any routine, I think you do what works for you and what isn't
    a hinderance to your lifestyle.  I didn't rock my kids to sleep, or
    give them bottles in bed, but our night time routine was whatever
    worked for them/us.  My oldest liked to have the music tapes on while
    he dozed and that lasted about 6 months.  We took tapes with us when we
    went to grandparents homes etc.  Worked well for us!  Now my sister's
    kid (9 months old) has her own routine and when we have her with us
    overnight, we try to stick as close to it as possible, but she knows
    she's in a different environment and things work differently.  I don't
    think you can spoil a baby either.  and I do think routines are very
    comforting to little ones....
    
    -sandy
    

    
    	Spencer is both fed in the rocking chair and rocked to sleep there.
    As it turns out we purchased one of those glider rocking chairs and it
    is currently the most comfortable chair in the house. (we keep it in
    the living room in front of the TV).
    
    	House rule is that whoever holds the baby gets to sit in the chair.
    
       Consequently, we have lots of quarrels on whose turn it is to hold
    the baby (you got to hold him long enough, it's my turn now ;-))
    
    			Wendy	

Boy I just had to respond to this note.  I noticed most of the responses said
"we sometimes rock ___ to sleep and had no problems".  In my opinion that
doesn't count.  Sometimes isn't always, and I think there's a big difference
in the two.

My husband rocked our firstborn to sleep (we too had a glider rocking chair)
EVERY night.  I cautioned him about this because I was worried Matt would never
learn to go to sleep on his own but he insisted on it because he enjoyed it so
much.  This went on for about 18 months and boy did we have problems.  It got 
to the point that the only person who could get Matt to sleep was my husband.  
(I cringed every time he had to go away on business!)  If anyone else tried, 
we'd have to rock him a LONG time.  AND, he HAD to be rocked EVERY SINGLE 
NIGHT.  It's strange, but I don't believe the daycare had any trouble getting 
him to sleep for his naps!  Around 18 mos. I decided we were going to break 
him of the habit.  (The pedi. agreed with me.)  It was hard.  We used the 
Ferber method of going back after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, etc.  He'd cry 
and cry.  The first night took about 1 1/2 hours to get him to sleep.  Each 
night was slightly less.  Finally after about 2 or 3 weeks he learned to go to 
sleep on his own.

This child has NEVER been a good sleeper, and I blame it on that nightly 
rocking.  When he was a baby he'd wake up crying 3-4 times a night and we'd 
have to get up and give him a pacifier so he'd go back to sleep.  By the time
he was 2 he was still waking up occasionally in the night.  He's now 3 1/2 and
STILL wakes up about one night a week crying.  Every nap he takes at home he
wakes up crying in the middle and needs to be comforted to go back to sleep.
He's not too bad about bedtime, but it usually takes him 1/2 hour or more to
fall asleep once he goes to bed.

With our second child I said "NO ROCKING TO SLEEP".  He is now 9 mos. old and
since he's been 1 mo. old he sleeps from 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. with NO night-
time waking at ALL.  We just put him to bed and he goes to sleep.  (Maybe one
night every two weeks or so he'll fuss for about 5 minutes before going to 
sleep).  Infinitely easier!

Maybe this is just a coincidence.  But I just hope we didn't instill a lifetime
of sleep problems with our first by rocking him to sleep.

� �ori �

With working and all, I cherish any opportunity to spend close with Graham
(6 mos old today!).  He generally falls asleep during his last nursing of
the evening, and when it's time for a nap but not a feeding, we walk and
rock him to sleep.  His daycare sitters also rock him to sleep as they do
most of the babies they care for.  Seems to be the "in thing" nowadays.

There's nothing wrong with developing a close bond with
your kids that revolves around a sleep-time habit.  The problem arises when
mom and/or dad want to no longer be bothered with it.

My oldest son, age 9.5, still likes to be "tucked in" in his room, and I
look at it as a few minutes of saying some kind words to eachother and
sometimes spending a few minutes together before bed.  Yeah, sometimes
there's a good show on that I don't want to miss or something else going
on, but what's a few minutes of niceness with your children that will
surely end sooner or later and be gone for good?

And a hearty thanx to the noter who mentioned the word "spoiling".  I
ALWAYS go to my children when they are in need.  There's a big difference
between a baby crying and a two-year-old's temper tantrum.  What I find is
that the more I respond to their needs, the less they look for attention
(for my "research" I use my 9yr old as the example) by displaying
undesireable behavior.  

~Caryn

    I rocked my son to sleep EVERY NIGHT until he was 1 yr old.
    I stopped doing it because of he was not interested to be 
    rocked anymore, but wanted to read a story instead.  Now
    he is 3.5 yr old.  The only problem we have is making him
    go to bed.  Once he is in bed, he falls asleep easily and
    he doesn't wake up until next morning.
    
    I also used to rock my daughter to sleep.  Now she is 15 months,
    she is like her brother, doesn't want to be rocked.  I also
    changed the bedtime routine to read books.  Like her
    brother, she is also hard to put in bed (have to read 5 books
    every night), but once asleep, she doesn't wake up until next morning.
    
    Each child is different.  I say, if both you and child enjoy
    the rocking, then go ahead.
    
    Wendy

    Just a couple more comments from me...
    
    I was told that you should try to put you child in the crib just a
    little bit awake, and let him/her learn to get to sleep on their own. 
    We used this method, unless he conked out during the breathing
    treatment.  He would still most likely wake up a little when he was put
    down, but nothing a few seconds of back patting wouldn't fix.  I think
    I put this somewhere else, but we used to prewarm the bed with a
    heating pad on low, and take it out as we laid him down.  The warmth
    made him settle in pretty quickly.  We also used this method when he
    woke up at night for feeding/changing.  We also used only flannel crib
    sheets, they just seemed warmer and cozier.
    
    Now for an extreme other end, we had a friend and neigbor who could
    only get the child to sleep by going for a ride in the car.  You could
    just about set your watch by them starting the car, and going for a 10
    minute ride, then they would come home, put the boy to sleep and never
    heard a sound til morning.  This is serious, not a joke, no other
    method or rocking and so forth worked!
    
    Lyn

    I have to agree with what most folk are saying about doing what works.
    I don't think you CAN spoil an infant.
    
    I've put my 8 month old daughter to sleep every night for 3 months (I
    adopted her when she was 5 months old.) The ritual has changed from my
    pacing and her crying to my rocking and her sucking a bottle.
    
    I think the important thing is to think a step ahead about how you want
    the ritual to change so that at 1 or 2 or 5 years old, you and your
    child are happy. 
    
    I have found that on occaison my daughter will wake up when I'm putting 
    her down and can get herself back to sleep with the help of the music 
    she hears when I rock her and a stuffed animal. I'm hoping that we can 
    make a transition to my holding her for bedtime stories and her then 
    going to sleep with music. This is my fantasy. I'd like her to be one 
    of those people who read before they go to bed..I don't and it seems 
    like such a great habit.
    
    Enjoy the cuddling. After all, I expect you are working all day and
    both you and your baby need the closeness. I know I do.

    We rocked Michael to sleep every night till he didn't want it anymore,
    and had no problems at all.  We used to bicker over which one got to
    rock him -- he felt soooo good all snuggled up against my chest! 
    Anyway, now we read him a story or two, put him in the bed, rub his
    back for a couple of minutes, and leave the room.  Unless he's sick we
    don't hear from him till morning.
    
    If you enjoy rocking, and your baby does too, then do it!  It won't be
    long before he's too independent to want it anymore, and then you'll
    cherish the memories you're creating right now.
    
    Steve

I didn't read all the responses but just decided to respond.

You didn't say in .0 how old your baby is.  *In my opinion*, a baby that 
is still on a nighttime bottle or breast before bed (an infant usually under 
the age of 1 year old) should, and I emphasize, *should* be *held* and given the
bottle in a soothing, quiet, now-it's-time-for-bed atmosphere.  My husband or
I always did this with Michelle, and sat in a rocking chair to do it.
Many times she fell asleep while drinking at which point I stopped feeding
and just put her to bed.  Or she might be awake after feeding, but very sleepy,
so I just put her down.  I don't consider this "rocking the baby to sleep".
It's more like "feeding the baby to sleep".

When she got older, and was more awake at bedtime (from 1 year old to now -
19 months old -- her bedtime is around 7 to 8 pm) and didn't have a bottle, we 
started to establish a routine.  I, too, had heard about how you should not 
rock to sleep because they needed to learn on their own.  (I know women who 
still rock their 4 or 5 year-olds.  Some like it, some feel chained to the
responsibility.)  I, personally, did not want to be rocking my child to sleep
until that age.  I give her love in other ways.  When she was an infant, it
was hard to resist, so sometimes I gave in.  But never enough to establish
a habit.  It makes me feel proud that Michelle can be told it's nighty-night
time, kissed and laid down in her crib, given her blanket, have her music
box turned on, and we leave the room and she goes to sleep with no crying and
within anywhere from immediately to 30 minutes later (sometimes she talks and
plays).  Plus she does this for grandparents, babysitters, etc.  She knows
how to go to sleep.  In my mind, that is an accomplishment to encourage
and be proud of just like learning to walk, stacking blocks, or saying words.

Kyra

    
    I rocked my 17 month old to sleep till she was 11 months old. Never had
    a problem after that with her falling asleep. I figured it out that, i
    was rocking her to sleep for my benefit, not hers. I was afraid to hear
    her cry when I left the room. I never gave it a chance to see how she'd
    react, because I rocked her since birth. Presently she falls asleep in
    a dark room with the door shut and talks herself to sleep!
    
    
    Sandy

    
    Thanks for all the replies...I think I got the answers I wanted:
    
    Do what I feel is right.
    
    To answer someones question, Michael is 3 mos old. We always feed him
    in the rocker, so about 3 out of 4 nights he'll fall asleep
    during/after his last bottle, and I just put him to bed. The other 4
    nights he'll stay up and hang out after his bottle, and then start
    getting fussy when he's tired. At that point I take him and his
    pacifier to the rocker, and we cuddle up and put him to sleep. He
    usually fights it though, starts to drift off, then wakes back up and
    starts crying and grabbing at my shirt, etc...  I just have to hold on
    tight and ride it out. Once down he usually sleeps through.
    Sometimes My husband does it, so its not just "me" that can put him to
    sleep. My daycare people even do the same for him. We call it the 
    "sleeper hold", his head at my breast, one arm underneath my arm.  I
    just wish he would stop "fighting" it sometimes.  You can tell he's
    exhausted, but just won't give in.
    
    Thanks again, I'm going to keep rocking him until either he or I don't 
    enjoy it anymore.
    
    Chris
    

My wife and I rocked our son (Brendon) every night until he began asking to be 
put into his crib without rocking.  He does, on occasion, ask to be rocked (and 
we oblige him) but he no longer gets rocked to sleep.  On occasion we even try 
and rock him when he doesn't ask (he quickly lets us know he doesn't want to 
be rocked ;-).  Brendon sleeps thru the night unless he wakes from a bad dream
or is ill, and has since he was a few weeks old (he's now 2 1/4).  

Suffice it to say, rocking a child to sleep doesn't necessarily condemn the 
child (and parents) to a lifetime of sleep problems (such as rocking).

-Andy

    I love the cuddle time with my sons.  Imagine this - three of us
    sitting in the recliner in the living room all getting sleepy-eyed. 
    Mom on the bottom with a 5 year old and a 6 1/2 year old on either side
    of her lap cuddled under a blanket.  
    
    May they never be too old or too independent!!!!
    
    And these kids didn't care for rocking and cuddling when they were
    young!
    
    -sandy
    

    Sandy...
    
    >> Imagine this - three of us sittingin the recliner in the living room
    >> all getting sleepy-eyed.
    
    Imagine what happens frequently, two adults, one five year old and at
    least ONE if not BOTH cats all under the afghan, getting sleepy eyed on
    the love seat!  The humans can make a decision, the cats, especially
    the younger half siamese, just plops himself down in the middle!
    It sort of a nice time for *everyone* in the household!
    
    Lyn
     

    That's it!!!  I need a love seat!!
    
    -sandy
    

    
    This is kinda related, so I'll explain the situation and pose my
    question here. Anna (almost 9 months old) has been pulling herself to
    standing for about a week now. Well, she has yet to figure how to get
    back down. Over the weekend I found myself having to rock her to almost
    asleep before her naps and bedtime so she wouldn't stand up in the
    crib. I hate to do this as she has always gone to sleep on her own
    (with a fight sometimes). I'm afraid that by doing this she will get
    used to it before she learns to get down from standing on her own. Last
    night I was up with her twice cause shw was crying, not bad, so I
    checked on her and sure enough she was standing at the end of the crib.
    How soon before they learn to get back down themselves? Once I know she
    can get back down then I won't go to her, but right now I'm so afraid
    of her going back and smacking her head on the crib that I go and
    comfort her. The second time she woke up last night even though I took
    her out of the crib to change her (a case of diaper rash) I put her
    right back in and patted her back until she seemed like she would go to
    sleep without standing back up instead of rocking her. So, any
    help/ideas/sympathies??
    
    Patty

    Patty, 
    
    In my experience this stage only lasts a couple of weeks before
    they figure out how to plop back down. 
    
    Your tactic of rubbing her back until she calms down seems like a
    good way to help her learn to calm herself so she can get back to
    sleep when she wakes up.
    
    --bonnie
    

    
    
    It only took my son about a week or two before he figured out how to
    get back down.  If your daughter is pulling herself up to stand
    next to the couch you might want to try putting a favorite toy on
    the floor near her feet so she has to get down to get it.  This way
    you can be right there to catch her if she does start to fall.
    I did this with my son and he eventually figured out how to land on
    all fours first and then later figured out how to sit down from
    standing.  I do remember having to calm him down by rocking him before
    I would put him in his crib for this period of time.  He can now go
    to sleep on his own when I put him down, of course he still has to
    stand up and play in his crib before he finally lies down to sleep.
    Usually he is asleep within 10-15 minutes.
    
    Kim 

    
    Thanks for the comments Bonnie and Kim. I will start working on
    teaching her to get down herself tonight. And I'll have her babysitter
    work on it during the day. In the past my daughter has woken 2-3 times
    a night and put herself back to sleep without my having to go to her at
    all. The only reason I know she is awake is I can hear her bang her
    feet/legs on the mattress. I stick to the backrubbing instead of
    picking her up and hopefully she learn to get down herself quickly.
    It probably wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't trying to recoup from the
    flu!!! I need my sleep!!!
    
    Patty

    When my daughter seems to need a bit of help learning a new skill,
    I demonstrate the skill myself (granted - kinda tough for an adult 
    to fall back on your rear end!).  Repeated demonstrations may be
    necessary.  For example, my daughter is learning to walk up steps,
    rather than climbing.  I hold her hand, put one foot up, and say "One
    foot up".  I give her an assist as she lifts her body (balancing on one
    foot is difficult), and she pulls the other foot up.
    
    I also move her body, helping her experience the appropriate movements.
    This is like the assistance I get in aerobics class, when I am learning
    a particular exercise.  It's a common method in teaching sports.
    
    You may want to help her learn to sit, by getting her to stand in the
    crib, then holding her upper back with your left hand while you ease
    her to sitting with the right.  Meanwhile, say "Now baby will sit. 
    Baby let go of crib rail.  Baby sit."
    
    For what it's worth, I think it can help them learn a bit sooner than
    they would on their own.  Of course, she has to be ready and willing.
    
    Laura

    
    Laura, (-1) as a take off to your method of stair climbing, we were
    advised and used a method of "counting" each step as it was taken. 
    Sort of makes the first move towards counting numbers.
    
    As you up (or down) a step just count as you land on it one-two-three
    etc.  It was great and lots of fun for us.  Let see it was 14 steps up
    to the second floor, and one-two-three-FOUR from the house to the
    driveway.....!!
    
    Lyn

    Moderator: Please feel free to move this note if there is a more 
    appropriate topic that it belongs under.
    
    I would like to ask opinions from people who have their children in a
    daycare setting.  My question is related to naps - how do your daycare
    providers let your children take naps?
    
    Let me explain my situation and see if that will help - I am just
    trying to figure out if my situation is the norm or if I should demand
    something better from the providers.  I have almost always held Nathan
    swaying back and forth to put him to sleep.  This has not been a
    problem at all for either my husband or I because he sleeps through the
    night without waking unless he is ill (ear infections).  In fact, I
    enjoy the snuggle time.  He is almost 11 months old and is taking
    a 1/2 hour to 45 minute morning nap and an afternoon nap of about 1
    hour.  The problem is that the head infant room teacher keeps telling
    me how she has a problem getting him to nap.  This morning she told me
    that when he is tired they lay him in his crib and if they don't keep
    patting him on the back until he's completely asleep, he'll stand up in
    the crib and cry.  She then said that sometimes he'll settle himself
    down and fall asleep, but most often he will just cry louder.  Now I
    hate, hate hearing about this.  Would I be asking too much to request
    that they don't let him cry?  It just tears my heart out thinking about
    this.  If he was a problem sleeper, I don't know how I would feel about
    this, but he is not for us, just for the daycare.  Once he's asleep in
    our arms, we lay him down and he sleeps just fine.  He has been in this
    daycare since he was 2 months old and since he is our first, I'm not
    sure what I should expect.  I just wonder if all daycares let their
    children cry (to a point) and parents just don't hear about it or not. 
    I'm sorry this is so long - I would appreciate any suggestions.
    
    P.S. Not that this makes a difference, but the daycare is a chain
    (Children's World)
    
    Thanks
    Julie
   

    Julie,
    
    My son is in a group day-care setting, and is also an excellent
    sleeper.  His infant group at day care consisted of 7 children and 3
    teachers, with sometimes 2 teachers on duty while 1 was on a break.
    Anyway, his day care teachers ALWAYS found the time to hold him and
    rock him to sleep.  If they were busy, say if all of the children
    needed to be held at once, then they would get other teachers from
    other rooms, or they would not take a break, or SOMEHOW they would find
    a way to spend the time to cuddle him to sleep.  I don't know if my day
    care center is unusual, but I hope this is the norm and that you can
    feel justified in asking your day care center to hold your child until
    he falls asleep.  
    
    That said, you might want to think into the future.  In my day care
    center, my son was moved into the toddler group in a gradual transition
    starting when he was 15 months old.  In the toddler group they do not
    take as much time helping the children get to sleep, and the children
    sleep on low cots instead of in cribs.  A child who had not learned how
    to get to sleep without holding by the age of 15 months would probably
    have had difficulty adjusting to being in the toddler group.  So you
    might want to start looking into your day care center's toddler group
    and think about how your child is going to sleep there when he's older.  
    Maybe it's time for some gradual weaning away from being held to fall
    asleep?
    
    Jane

    The conventional wisdom is that you should not put your child to sleep
    in your arms because then he or she will only be comfortable falling
    asleep that way. That may be fine if you're happy with the situation,
    but it's unlikely that the child care staff will like the idea in 
    principle. Further, they may feel that they can't afford the time to do
    that, and would prefer training the child to fall asleep on his own.
    
    Kit

    re: -1
    
    I do believe that this is the case, however, I feel that the $$ I pay
    them to take care of my child should permit me to say how I feel that my
    child should be treated as an individual.
    
    Julie

    Julie,
    
    My son, Chris, has always been rocked to sleep for naps, at home and
    at the daycare. We don't rock him to sleep at night anymore, and he
    does fine then. It is just the naps that he won't do on his own. I
    see the daycare people rocking all the children to sleep. Or they lay
    them down and pat their backs until they are asleep. It's hard when
    the other kids are playing and they have to nap, so they don't mind
    standing there with them. I might just have a good daycare, but since
    all the children are not on the same nap schedule, I see know reason
    why they shouldn't rock them if you wish them to. 
    
    We are also worried about Chris moving to the next room. Like Jane
    said, the children in that room sleep on pads on the floor, and are
    required to be able to fall asleep themselved before they move to that
    room. That's usually at around 2 years of age though. We'll see what
    happens.
    
    Anyways, good luck. And if I were you, it can't hurt to ask them to
    rock him. If they won't, then you may have to consider other
    alternatives.
    
    -Sheila
    

    You mentioned that your son has been in that daycare setting since he
    was 2 months old. Has something changed?  How have they been putting
    him down for naps the past few months? Is it possible that they are
    trying to wean him to going to sleep by himself as a previous noter
    suggested?
    
    I was just curious.  If you have been happy with his care for the past 9
    months, then I would suggest you try to work it out with the staff.
    
    Mary

Juli attends a toddler daycare (learning center).  She started at 18 months
of age ... and the kids bring their own "nap sack" and have the same floor
spot assigned (every day).  Juli was "terrible" about taking naps for us
and "home care" ... but we never got any complaints when she started daycare.
Possibly because she got a "kick" out of sleeping on the floor, surrounded
by a bunch of other toddlers or maybe because the young toddlers "tend"
to follow suit with the older toddlers (in the same stage -- age group).

All the kids/teachers from Stage 1 and Stage 2 (15 months - 3+ years) share
the same "quiet time" room.  They let the children have "their" own pillow,
favorite doll/bear/animal and ONE book.  The children are NOT allowed to
stand, jump, kick other children, talk or be disruptive.  They can read
silently and "get comfortable" on their own sack.  Teachers will rub backs
and/or rock a "real young toddler" in their arms.  If the child is giving them
a real difficult time, they walk him in the corridor outside the quiet room.
If the child refuses to give in to a nap, but is being reasonably quiet, s/he's
allowed to "sit" on their sack in the adjacent room (with books or quiet toys)
within view of the teachers (but not the children).  If the child is crying
and disruptive, after several attempts to quiet him/her, s/he sits on the
bench in the Director's office  (to the kid's, this is "death"!, so they 
usually quiet down and take the "other room" alternative).

There are 20-25 kids "total" in Stages 1 and 2 and I've witnessed (several
times) that within 15-20 minutes, 85-90% of the kids are asleep!  Within
30 minutes, all kids are asleep (except for maybe 1 or 2 who are in the
adjacent room -- half the time NO kids are even in the adjacent room!).

Juli's head instructor has NEVER complained about Juli ... and God knows
I don't have a perfect child!!!, so I'd say she has an awful lot of patience,
tolerance and love for the kids!  Within 2-3 weeks, Juli started taking naps
at home with little if any fussing ... I think she just accepts the daily nap
as something that's "typical and happens each day".  (Juli takes a 2-3 hour
nap each afternoon!)

I'm not sure you can expect (or would want your child to get programmed) to
being rocked to sleep EVERY day (nap or evening!).  I know it's tough, but
whatever our daycare did to have such a positive effect on Juli's naptime was
a true blessing in disguise!

You might even want to eliminate the morning nap and get your son used to
just the afternoon nap ... and by 1 pm, he might even welcome the pillow and
blanket!


Just my two cents!
Dottie

    Thanks for everyone's replies.  I know that he needs to fall asleep on
    his own and every once in a while that does happen.  I guess what I
    wanted to know most was if anyone had actually been told that the
    daycare providers let their child cry.  It personally makes me feel
    awful.  I do not have a problem with him learning to fall asleep by
    himself, however, I guess I don't want to hear about how the providers
    are trying to do this. (It makes me feel like a terrible mother)  I am
    not sure whether Nathan will have trouble once he goes into the toddler
    room (at 15 months) because the environment is different like was
    mentioned in the previous reply - they sleep on mats instead of cribs
    and are not required to nap, only to have quiet time.  
    
    What I believe I will do is ask what their intent is in what they are
    doing with his nap times and possibly suggest alternatives for the next
    couple months.  I see no reason in pushing the fall asleep by yourself
    attitude at 11 months - maybe I'll feel differently in a few months
    when I know that it is inevitable that he switches classrooms.  I'm
    just afraid that they will give me the line that they only have so many
    teachers, etc.  Again, if Nathan had trouble sleeping through the night
    I would be more adamant that he learns to fall asleep by himself. 
    However, he doesn't have that problem.  In fact, he does wake in the
    middle of the night (I think I hear every sound he makes) and puts
    himself back to sleep.  
    
    Thanks again for all replies - keep them coming.
    Julie

Julie:

As for "letting the children cry" ... 

Juli's providers are EXCELLENT about picking up the children ... rarely do
I see a provider who doesn't have at least one child sitting on her hip!  I've 
seen many a teacher with a child on EACH hip!  The kids are also great about
loving and soothing any upset child.  The older kids tend
to "protect" the little ones.  Rarely, if ever, do I hear a crying child
at Juli's center ... either when I call on the phone or Jim/I "drop in"
unexpectedly or planned.  The kids are usually VERY happy and VERY busy.

Jim/I did interview another learning center recently (because we have another
infant scheduled for adoption this September and Juli's center only does
toddlers, not infants).  Jim/I was astonished to see "Jimmy" (2+) balling his
eyes out, dragging around a blanket, sucking on his thumb.  There were
4 teachers and a director bending over backwards to "pacify" this child.
They tried to rock him, read to him, play with him ... the children tried
to play with him ... he rejected EVERYTHING and did nothing but cry and sob!

The other babies and toddlers were very happy, busy and playing with each
other (and getting ready for lunch) ... he was the only one crying
and disruptive!  He even refused to come to the lunch table!

I asked the director how long Jimmy had been crying (it was noontime) and
she said "all day ... he's been here a week and he's not adjusting very well
...".

I could see that everything was being done to help this child and he was
REJECTING everything and everybody.  Jim/I were there but maybe 20-30 minutes
and he never stopped crying ... he was starting to get on my nerves!  The
kids and teachers were trying hard to "accomodate him", but it was getting on
my nerves and I was only there for 20-30 minutes!  You couldn't hear yourself
talk!

I don't know what you do in a situation like this?!!  Juli experienced 
severance anxiety the first week or two, but only when we dropped her off.
She'd cry for 10-15 minutes, the teachers/kids would love her and then she
was just fine all day.  We never had any "complaints" from her daycare.
Now she doesn't want to come home and would love to "go to school" on
Saturdays/Sundays!

So, from what I've observed at Juli's center and this "new center" is that
the teachers have all tried their best to work with a crying child and
they do give lots of love and attention ... I guess not all children can
adjust (and enjoy) a daycare environment.  It's sad!

Dottie 

    Dottie,
    
    Thanks for including your experiences.  I do have to say that whenever
    I've dropped in unexpectantly (and that's pretty often) everything
    seems to be fine.  In the infant room, there is 1 teacher to every 4
    infants and almost always one of the teachers has a child in their
    hands.  I have never walked in to the center to find Nathan crying.  I
    do believe that he gets lots of attention and likes the center.  The
    only part I'm having trouble with is the napping issue.  As far as my
    husband and I am concerned, he is still a baby and needs to be cuddled. 
    I don't think I'm asking too much or am I.  
    
    I am sooooo happy to hear about your new one coming this September!    

    Julie,
    
    My daughter does cry sometimes at her daycare at naptime. She goes
    only one day a week, and really enjoys it. She's 8.5 months.
    
    When we started, I talked to them about what our home routine was.
    As it happened, we were working with her to help her learn to go
    to sleep on her own -- and that is what her center prefers to do,
    too. So fortunately we had a meeting of the minds. They tell me that
    some days she resists going to sleep (i.e. cries) and they rub her
    back, but do not pick her up. She calms down within a few  minutes
    and goes to sleep. I feel that if this wasn't satisfactory to me I
    would definitely want to raise the issue -- I agree, you are paying
    them to care for your child, and you have every right to say what
    your preferences are. (Though they may not honor all of them!) 
    
    By the way, my daughter's center will not leave an upset, 
    sobbing child in the crib to "cry it out" -- if the child is
    inconsolable they pick them up and comfort them and try again later.
    They seem to take it child-by-child, always encouraging them to
    learn to go to sleep on their own. 
    
    Lucy

    
    Well, this is only my opinion, but I think weaning the kid into
    learning to sleep on his own is better for him in the long run 
    than rocking him to sleep every time.  Sure, a parent loves to do this,
    but I think the occasional rocking is better than every time.  The baby
    is perfectly capable(sp) of falling asleep on it's own, you've just
    taught it not to.
    
    Chris D.