Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    
    You'll find lots of info about Disneyworld and info in the Disney notes
    file.  Can't remember the node.  
    
    Last May we took our 6 year old and 12 month old on the Disney cruise
    and spent 4 days at WDW.  There are lots of babysitting services
    available - and EVERY theme park had facilities for infants.  The
    ponchos they sell even fit nicely over the stroller!
    
    I'm guessing that your concern is with the thrill rides at the Magic
    Kingdom.  My husband and I took turns riding Space Mountain, etc..
    
    Every other theme park was really no problem with an infant.  Your 4
    month old might be easier because he/she won't want to get out of the
    stroller and toddle.  
    
    We all had a great time - Sorry! 
    
    Rochelle

By the way, the Disney conference is on CLOSET::DISNEY (press KP7...)

There are other theme parks that are more appropriate for toddlers that don't
entail quite so much expense.  All I know is the European scene but over here,
Europapark catered more to little ones.

I think you have to ask yourself what each member of your family is going to 
get out of the "vacation".  Obviously, the 4 month old won't get much in 
any case.  If you go to Disney, do you do it for yourself or for your 22 month
old?  If it's for the 22 month old, it's a pretty expensive way of entertaining
a 22 month old.

There is a book which we used when we took our two boys in the high season to
Disneyworld which I highly recommend.  It is called "The Unofficial Guide to
Disneyworld" and helps you make a preselection of the attractions.  We used
it during high season to do EVERYTHING in the shortest time possible (requires
extremely athletic people, no food, track shoes and a dedication that still
impresses me (that I had it, that is :-)  but we saw it all by 2:00 p.m. in 
July.  

The book includes plans for every type of grouping- couples with babies, older
people, couples with teenagers, etc.  It also includes statistics on the flow
through the various attractions, where to eat, and evaluations of the attrac-
tions for their appropriateness for different ages.  If I remember correctly,
I think they kind of disrecommend Disney World for babies but give lots of
useful advice if you are going with babies.

I borrowed the book from a friend who bought it in the U.S.

ccb

    
    You know your child the best, but I have to wonder if a 22-month old
    would be frightened by alot of what Disneyworld has to offer..i.e.
    how did he do with Santa this year (if you do that sort of thing)?
    
    Also, I might be inclined to stay away from Florida with my family
    during "SPRING BREAK"!
    
    My opinion would be to wait a year or two.
    
    Carol
    
    P.S.  I like Cheryl's sentiment in .2 - awful expensive way to
    entertain a two-year old!

    We have three children, 5, 3, and 1.  We are going to wait at least 6
    years before our trip to Disney world (when the kids are 11, 9, and 7)
    because we don't really think that the kids will get much out of it
    until they are older.  
    
    Mike

I don't think that it would necessarily be the "vacation from
hell", but I do think that it might be best delayed.  Given that
Disney vacations are expensive, and something that you can't do
every year, I think that waiting a year or two might would increase
your enjoyment a lot.

A few additional points:

     -    Consider traveling with a 4 month old and a 22 month old.
          There are other notes in here about that, and I don't
          know how your kids travel.

     -    You don't say where you would stay, but also consider
          what it would be like to live in a hotel with a 22 month
          old and an infant.

     -    Consider your son's ability to enjoy the "older" stuff.
          There is a potential for problems when you want to do
          Epcot, and your son wants to spend all his time taking
          pictures with Mickey.

     -    Many of the other attractions in the Orlando area, such
          as Universal Studios, Sea World, Busch Gardens (an hour
          or so away) etc. are much more appealing to older
          children than to younger.

     -    To get the best airfares and accommodations, it's best
          to plan well ahead.  I don't think that March is peak
          time (consult a travel guide), but Disney Vacations are
          best planned WELL ahead of time.  In fact it would not
          be crazy to start planning now for March 1993.

     -    Your son won't enjoy it any less (in fact will probably
	  enjoy it more) in a year, or even five years.

It also depends on whether this is a once in a lifetime thing or
not.  IMO, if it is, you should wait several years.  We went last
winter.  Our kids were 7 and 10.  We (the adults) were able to
enjoy the kids stuff, and the kids enjoyed some of the more adult
stuff.  We actually ended up spending more time at Epcot than at
Magic Kingdom.

Clay

    We went last summer with a 28 month old girl and a 12 year old boy.
    
    There was actually very little that the 28 month old really enjoyed. 
    She was afraid of the fireworks, and most of the rides and shows are
    scarey to a very young child.  Things we thought for sure she would
    like, she hated (i.e., Mickey Starland Revue, the Moppets show, the
    dinasaws (?sp) ride, and she loves dinasaws).
    
    All she talked about for a long time after was that she DIDN'T LIKE
    MICKEY MOUSE and NEVER wanted to go back to disney.
    
    If it were me with two very small children I would not go.
    
    Phyllis
    

    We have visited Disney World as a couple every other year for the past
    14 years.  We now have a 5 month old and are planning a trip next
    winter.  We have always stayed in Fort Wilderness with our own RV. Next
    year we are going to rent an on site trailer. I beleive this would be
    the best bet for children because unlike a motel room, there is a
    living room and a fully equipped kitchen. You can also get a package 
    deal which will include a 5 day pass to all of the parks, this way you
    can visit a park for a couple of hours, go back to the trailer for
    meals, naps etc. and then go out again later in the day.  We did this
    even with the two of us and found it much more enjoyable and relaxing
    than staying outside of the park (which we did the first year) and
    spending the entire day in one of the parks.  The trailers are
    expensive and you have to make plans months in advance,  but it is well
    worth the expense.

    Take your 22-month-old to an entertainment that requires waiting in
    line and a long attention span (e.g. the aquarium or a stage magic
    show or a very popular movie).  Observe his or her behaviour and
    enjoyment level.  Then calculate what it would be like to spend a
    whole day doing half-hour waits for entertainments which last ten
    to twenty minutes and are probably hard for him or her to understand.
    
    My son is two years and three months old and has a relatively long
    attention span and is fairly patient.  But I'm sure he would hate
    waiting in line, he would be either scared or bored by the
    entertainments, and he would in any case want to go home and rest
    after a few hours.  I base this on our experience with the Boston
    aquarium, a local petting farm, trips to the library and restaurants,
    and other such family amusements.
    
    I wouldn't go, if it were my decision.
    
    		-John Bishop

	I went to Disney World this past Thanksgiving with my husband
	and our 11 month old daughter and 2 year old son.  I stayed at the
	Disney Fort Wilderness campground - which I would highly recommend.
	The trip went very well.  However we brought along a babysitter.
	We only brought one child at a time into the theme parks.  My
	daughter went to Epcot and the MGM studios.  She came along with
	us on the rides and did just fine.
	
	My son only went to the Magic Kingdom.  While he seemed to enjoy
	himself I agree with the previous noter that it is an awful expensive
	entertainment for a 2 year old.  He was frightened of the characters.
	Also he could not tolerate waiting in lines.

	For us it was an enjoyable trip but our primary reason for going
	was to spend Thanksgiving with family in Florida.  The Disney
	part of the trip was just an added treat.
	

I sure as heck wouldn't want to go to Disney World with a 4 mo. old OR a
22 mo. old.  I must admit, tho, last time I was there I saw an awful lot
of adults with babies!!!

I was the youngest of 4 kids (the oldest was 5 yrs older than I) and my parents
took us on alot of vacations when we were young.  We went to Niagra Falls, 
Frontier Town, North Pole, World's Fair '65 etc. and I just have *very* vague 
recollections of these vacations.  It wasn't until I was about 7 years old and 
we went to Montreal for Expo '67 when I think I started appreciating vacations
and actually have memories of them.

I, too, would wait a few years because they won't even REMEMBER it much less
appreciate it.  Our kids are 8 mos. and 3 1/2 years and I can't wait to take
them to Disney World but won't even consider it for about 5 years!

� �ori �

    I took my daughter to DisneyLand when she was 27 months.  (I went to
    DECUS in Annaheim and Grandma and Elizabeth came along for the
    California visit.)  She was afraid of some things...even things I
    didn't consider...like looking at the fake whale on some kind of
    Pinocchio boat ride.  She liked the Small World pavillion, but was
    nervous going in.  She loved the carrousel.  All in all, I took her
    because I was there and it was free.  But I would definately wait a few
    years to take your kids if you want them to get the "maximum" out of
    the trip.  
    
    We now have two kiddos (I was pregnant on the above trip to DisneyLand,
    so lots of rides were off limit for me) and will definately wait 'till
    the younger one is 4 or 5, and the older one is 7 or 8.  
    
    My experience with a 27 month old was not bad, but certainly nothing to
    write home about.
    
    LZP
    

    We were in Toronto last fall, and went to Wonderland (Canada'a theme
    park, By Hanna Barbera) for a day. Our daughter was 22 months old then.
    She loved it, she went a lot of kiddie rides, watched Yogi bear perform
    on stage, ect. She still asks to see her picture riding Dino (from the
    Flintstones) quite often. Wonderland is a big park, but it's not the
    same as Disney. As a matter of fact, the begininng of last summer she
    would have nothing to do with going on rides. Then she kinda snapped
    and even rode on a real pony at ths local state fairs, since then for
    get it you'll never get her off the animal or carnival rides. We are
    planning a trip to Disney this spring. Also remember each kid is
    different, my 3.5 year old niece is afraid to death of rides and people
    dressed up as cartoon characters.
    
                                            Jeff
    BTW: The slower months for Disney is October-November & April-May

    22 months seems a little young, but it depends on the child.  We went
    last year in April, the month before Katie turned 3.  It was great--she
    really believed that the characters were real...it was definitely a
    magic experience.  Jenny was only 6 months, and very easy, as she was
    still "pouchable", nursing, and not yet on solids.  The only rides that
    Jenny couldn't go on, with Mom "pouched" were the roller coasters.  We
    also had three adults (Mom, Dad, and Grandma) which made it easier,
    too.
    
    Susan

    My parents first took us {ages 10, 12, 13, 14} to Disney world in 
    October of 1975.  I must admit that we had an absolute blast and
    my memories of it are spectacular.
    
    I would not take my 26 month old there until she was at least 4 if
    not 5 or 6.  She still takes afternoon naps {from 12-2} and when we
    went to Maine or a week last summer, we had to stay inside for 2
    peak hours each day.  That was the only bad part of the trip.
    
    For the amount of expense Disney World entails, I would wait until
    they were old enough to remember it, appreciate it and so that you
    will be able to enjoy it as well.
    
    {p.s.  my daughter is also afraid of Santa Claus...}
    
    -Patty

    Count me among the "don't do it until at least...." crowd.
    
    Hubby and I did Disney World early November '85, just he and I.  As
    adults we were *exhausted* at the end of the day.  As we did this, we
    observed the whiney kids waiting in line.  Let me add this time of year
    was positively wonderful, there were several times where literally the
    lines were non-existant, rides ran half full, staff was EXTRA
    attentive, and you could get lunch or dinner reservations at any of the
    countries in Epcot with no problem.
    
    We want very much to go back, but have a made a firm commitment not to
    do it until AJ is at least 7, and able to understand more of what goes
    on, some basic rules, and might enjoy places like Epcot and MGM more,
    and be able to handle a day that starts at the park around 8a.m. and
    might end around 11 at night.
    
    FWIW, my in-laws went to DW with my sister inlaw and brother inlaw when
    their daughter was maybe a year+, on the surface they enjoyed it, but
    you could just read in her words "cramped our style".  Maybe that's why
    last fall when they went to visit them again, they "snuck off" to DW,
    just the two of them on the way to Jacksonville FL to visit my S-I-L &
    B-I-L.  And we were the only ones who knew it, until after, just incase 
    something happened and we needed to find them.
    
    Certainly, there must be somewhere closer, less expensive than DW to
    take two very small children?  Hershey park?  Isn't there a theme park
    in Virginia somewhere too?
    
    Lyn 
    (who considers ONE NIGHT without child worth a week's vacation!!)

    What about Club Med?  Another non-cheap vacation, but it was great last
    year with a 13 month old, and we'll be doing it again this year...the
    facilities are geared to each age group.
    
    Adrienne
    

We took our kids to Disney World a couple of years ago.  My daughter was not
quite three and my son was 3 mos.  My daughter had a great time.  The only
complaint she had was that she didn't want to walk.  So we put her in the
stroller and my son in a front carrier.   He slept through most everything.
She loved almost all of the exhibits, especially the scary ones.  I have to
disagree with people who say it's an awfully expensive vacation for a child
who won't remember the experience.  I believe that for kids under 3 admission
to everything is free [please someone correct me if I'm wrong].  If you're
flying, air fare is free, and the hotel room additional cost besides yourself
will probably just be the cost of renting crib[s] or a rollaway if you need
them.  Actually, this will probably the most inexpensive time vacationing
with children.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

Happy Vacationing,

Valerie

    
    I would also wait if I were you.  I really doubt that a 22 mo. old
    will get much out of it.  I am not sure how crowded it will be in
    March.  Last time I was there, I had to wait half hour for each
    ride (this was in June).  Most of the kids will be out of patience
    with the long waiting line.  Plus some of rides are pretty scary for 
    a 2 yr old.  
    
    I have a 3.5 yr old and 15 months old, we plan to go to DW when
    the youngest is at least 4 yr old.
    
    Wendy 

Evan's first trip to Disneyland was when he was 20 months old.  He *loved* it!

We went on Thanksgiving Day, and the lines were about 30 minutes long.  He 
didn't understand waiting in line (he kept pulling me toward the exits of
the rides, thinking we could just walk onto a ride) and he was afraid of the
characters walking around.  However, he *loved* the rides, the boats, the 
horses, the running around, Small World, etc, etc, etc, etc.  His godparents
were with us and they had so much fun they are making it an annual event to
spend Thanksgiving at Disneyland!

We took him again to Disneyland 2 weeks ago.  Evan is now 3 1/2.  He also
had a really good time.  The waits were longer, though, so we didn't get
to do as much.

My suggestion is that if *you* would enjoy DisneyWorld then to GO FOR IT!
Go at a time of year that the crowds are low.  The advantage to high season
(like summer) is that they are open much later (and earlier) but your kids
won't be able to stay up late anyway (they will be *tired* at the end of the
day!).  Stay on-site so you can go back to the hotel room easily for naps,
then come back to the park when you all wake up.  The Disney notes conference
has *tons* of good advice for cheaper rates, how to handle small children,
etc!!!

      Carol

    We planned on taking our son next year, when he would be almost 3 years
    old.  But we have decided to wait until he is 6 to take him to Disney
    World.  Mainly because I don't want to walkaround with a diaper bag and
    push a stroller all day, and I want him to enjoy himself.  He likes
    Mickey Mouse and watches the Disney Channel all the time, so he is
    familar with Disney.  I feel it will be better waiting until the kid(s)
    are older cause you won't have to stop for diaper changes,feedings,etc.
    and you won't have to carry so much stuff with you, ie: diaper bag,
    bottles, etc.  I want Alex potty trained and old enough to enjoy the
    rides.
    
    I know this from experience.  I grow up mostly in Southern Calif. and
    spent my life in Disney Land, Knots Berry farm and every where else out
    there.  I remember some of it but that is because as I got older I
    enjoyed it more.
    
    Liz

    We took Steven when he was about 2, mostly for the sake of the
    12-year-old.  David might get to go this year at 2.6, along with
    his older siblings and cousins.  
    
    But most of the things he had a great time with weren't the big
    attractions they advertise.  He sat through a long lunchtime
    watching the fountain with the balloons rising and falling at the
    land pavillion in the EPCOT center.  He loved watching the swans
    on the water.  He enjoyed any ride that was slow and not too
    noisy, especially on boats.  (The cable cars were a big hit.)
    
    We've been to Disney/EPCOT several times over the years, and we've
    found that the older kids don't require any fewer stops than the
    younger ones.  But where the younger ones may need a diaper
    changed, the older ones need a snack or a break.  
    
    If you're going for the kids' enjoyment, wait until they're old
    enough to ask to go.  But if you want to see it for yourselves,
    then I think the kids will enjoy it too.  
    
    --bonnie

    I haven't read all of the replies to this note, but thought I would
    lend my own experience.  We took our daughter, Kate, to DisneyWorld
    when she was 18-months old (and again at 3 years old).  We did not 
    go there the first time because we wanted to experience Disney, 
    but because we wanted to take a vacation someplace warm where we knew 
    that she would be welcome.  We didn't try to see everything (as a matter 
    of fact we stayed on Disney property for 7 days and went into the Magic 
    Kingdom only one day.)
    
    What we did was take advantage of the resort, the pool, the beach,
    spent a day at River Country...  The restaurants we went to were ready
    for a baby, we didn't get stared at by angry tourists who left their
    kids at home (as would probably be the case in a place like Bermuda).
    
    My recommendation is to do it - but do it smart.  If you're considering
    staying on Disney property stay at Fort Wilderness campground and rent
    one of their mobile homes - it's the same price as a hotel room and
    gives you two bedrooms, living room, and a FULL kitchen.  I'm not
    saying prepare all your own meals (who wants to do that while on
    vacation) but you would have a refrigerator for milk and juice. 
    There's a toaster and coffee pot, a microwave oven and a charcoal grill
    and picnic table outside your door.  
    
    There are playgrounds on the property, a couple of pools and a beach.  
    At night there is a campfire singalong with Chip and Dale and the 
    little ones love it.  There's a petting zoo, too.  It's a very laid back 
    place to stay.  I would  not consider staying anywhere else with a little 
    one.
    
    If we could afford it we would make it an annual event!  In our family
    Disney is very special.  If you want any other information about the
    campground, see the Disney notes file, or give me a call.
    
     ^_^
    (>.<)
     ) ( Jeanne

    A couple people have mentioned the campground at DisneyWorld.  Can
    anyone post a "guestimated" price for either renting one of their
    trailers, or the price if we brought ours with us?  
    
    Just doing some thinking for our future needs.
    
    Lyn

    If I recall correctly,  the price of renting a site at Fort Wilderness
    was  approx. $30.00 per nite.  The cost of the trailers run similar to 
    any hotel room at Disney $150.-$200. per nite.   If you go to your site
    personnel group and ask for a Magic Kingdom club, you get a package of
    discount coupons for Disney and surrounding area.  You will also
    receive a brochure with prices and package deals.  The package deals,
    while they may seem expensive,  include everything from tickets to the
    parks to excellent meals within Disney World.  Also,  if you call
    information, I believe there is a toll free number to call Disney World
    and Fort Wilderness and call for some information from them.  If I can 
    locate any other phone numbers/info at home, I will post it here.
    
    Janet

Also, by reading the Disney notesfile, you can learn how to get deals on their
regular (really nice) hotel rooms (and on the Fort Wilderness Campground, 
I think) where you can stay for $79 or $99 a night. 

     Carol

    When we went to Disney World, my son was 26 months old.  To this day,
    my son, now 6, still remembers going to Disney World and the things he
    saw.  He enjoyed it, but if I had to do it all over again, I would wait
    until he was older.  We found that alot of the rides/exhibits, he was
    afraid of because they started off in the dark and he didn't know what
    to expect. 
    
    At age 6, he keeps asking us when we are going back.  We were talking
    about going with my parents in October, but now that I'm expecting
    twins, we're not sure what we'll do.
    
    Cheryl
    

    Well I appreciate the responses. You all shared the same sentiment and
    concerns that I had.  I will now share this with my wife and try to
    change the vacation plans.  I'll keep you posted and let you know who
    wears the pants in our family.
    
    John 

    John,
    Just to add to those folks who have done it....

    My almost 4 year-old son has been to WDW 3 times! - 10 months, 1.10, 2.10.
    He loved it each time. We all had a great time! Not all was perfect, I
    forgot to babyproof the hotel room completely. I did an Olympic-class
    flying maneuver one afternoon to prevent the large lamp from crashing
    down his head, and during the China 360-degree movie the train whistle
    sent him up to the roof.

    Consider the personality of your 22-month old - we had (have) a very
    happy, content little boy - curious, gregarious, and easy to put to
    sleep, feed, etc.

    If your child is like this, you can go and have the same amount of fun.
    Of course, your attitude is important as well, and maybe it would be
    best to change plans (he said, completely reversing himself!).
    
    Enjoy your vacation, whatever you do!
    JR

    
    I am a true Disney-a-holic.  My husband and I (and the child) have been
    going every year or every other year since 1980.  I took my son at age
    3, 5 and 7 (and we are going this year at age 9). I have yet to take my
    15 mos. old.  She will not be going with us this year.  She is staying
    with grandparents for the week.  I feel I have a great deal of
    knowledge in this area and I would never ever bring a child under the
    age of 3 years old and in my opinion I will not take my daughter until
    5 years old - 3 was a bit too early with my son.  DON'T Waste your
    MONEY!
    
    Care to talk off line - I'm at DTN: 264-5082
    
    Kathy
    

    If you plan to make only one visit to Disney in your child's life, then
    I'd say wait.
    
    But I took Alex to Disney World (we stayed with friends in Cocoa Beach)
    when she was 13 months old, and we both *loved* it.  I knew, of course,
    that we wouldn't be seeing Epcot at all, and MGM studios hadn't been
    built then ('86), but there was plenty to do at the Magic Kingdom for a
    full day with a not-yet-walking, not-yet-talking anklebiter.  I'm sure
    Disney World (and -land) are still as clean and brilliantly laid-out as
    DW was then; there are baby-changing (diaper) stations everywhere,
    generic strollers are available and can go almost everywhere (not on
    rides, but no one made off with our stroller when I left it at the
    rides' gates).  They post the waiting time for each ride where you can
    see it before you get in line (if you have to wait 45 minutes, can't say 
    they didn't warn you).
    
    At the time I went, some Michael Jackson video (yawn) was the big draw at
    Epcot.  Someday I'll get a Round Tuit, but in the '50s when I grew up,
    DisneyLAND was what every kid wanted to see (i.e., Magic Kingdom), and
    even if I'd been alone, I wouldn't have used my one day at Epcot.  It
    wouldn't have seemed like Disney to me!
    
    Alex remembered it for years, and I really think she still does
    *remember* some of it (Cinderella's castle, and Goofy shook her hand). 
    Pictures I took kept it alive for her too.
    
    So we prove that mileage does vary....
    Leslie

re: .30

>    there are baby-changing (diaper) stations everywhere,

including many (most? all?) men's rooms.

Clay

    My husband (a non-DECie) won an "excellence award" to Orlando from his
    company when Rasika was 21 months old (and I was 6 months pregnant).
    So we went ....

    We went in March and spent 2 days at EPCOT, 2 days at Magic Kingdom,  1
    day at MGM Studios and 1 day at the Kennedy Space Center at  Cape
    Canaveral  (sp ?).

    It was very tiring for Rasika. She got sick after 4 days, so I  stayed
    back at the resort-condo we had rented while the others (my parents and
    my husband) went sightseeing.  During that time, Rasika  and I did
    simple things - bought a bunch of balloons and went for a walk,  played
    in the park, etc.  The funny thing is ... she does not talk very  much
    about Magic Kingdom (despite the home-video we have),  but she  does
    remember the airport, the plane-ride, the balloons, the sun (it is
    non-existent in Michigan in March :-) and the palm trees !!

    In retrospect, I feel that we tried to see too much, she was too young
    and overwhelmed by all of it.  I would wait until the child is at least
    5 years old and has the physical stamina to take it all in.  It is too 
    expensive a vacation to be so so.

    Despite the fact that DW is very "children-friendly", I feel that it
    will be quite a challenge for you with the kids.  

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Pam
    

    John,
    
    I don't recall seeing anywhere in here where you mention if you've been
    to Orlando/Disney. That's important to know because if you have been
    there in the last two years or so you would probably have a better
    feeling as to what you would want to see and what you feel your kids
    would enjoy seeing.
    
    If you have never been down there or haven't been there since the late
    80's then I would seriously reconsider your thoughts on taking the
    kids.
    
    I agree with the noters in here who have discussed reasons for NOT
    taking children ages 4 months and 22 months. I won't go into
    reinforcing the arguments on diapers, etc. but will say that waiting
    for the right time to bring your kids can make your first family visit
    there a memorable one.
    
    A child's first visit to Disney should be memorable to him/her as well
    as the parents....and it should be enjoyable for the whole family.
    Taking infants and toddlers to Orlando may appeal to you at first but
    when you sit down and think about some of the "drawbacks" you may find
    that your vacation may not be as enjoyable. Again, the noters have done
    a good job in covering the types of things I'm referring to.
    
    Many "experts" feel that the relationship between WDW and children
    starts in one stage and eventually overlaps into another stage. The
    first stage involves the "Magic" and that means the child understands
    certain things and has no fear when dealing with a Disney attraction. I
    know someone who as a little girl was taken to DisneyLand and was
    frightened out of her wits in "Snow White's Scary Adventure". She feels
    she was too young (3 or 4) to deal with that attraction and to this day
    admits a slight fear when entering this attraction.
    
    There is no strong feeling as to the "best" young age to bring a child
    to WDW. What's important is the objective of the vacationers. What do
    you want to get out of the vacation? If you feel you can achieve this
    objective with your kids then by all means take them. But remember the
    "Magical" stage mentioned earlier.
    
    The second stage is that of "discovery" and "learning". Kids receive an
    education in certain attractions throughout The World....and they enjoy
    it....why? Well the "magic" is folded into it and nurtures their
    curiosity.
    
    Of course as parents we get a big thrill seeing our children excited
    over the sight of Santa Claus, Ninja Turtles, and in this case a 50+
    year old mouse. That in itself is a driving force for you and many
    other parents.
    
    I did not bring my children to WDW until I knew they could revel in the
    "magic" and "discovery" stages. I am glad that I waited.
    
    
    I have heard of parents taking very young children down there and
    having to miss out on some things due to a number of reasons...all
    related to the age of the children. In almost all cases problems with
    diapers, long lines, frightened and tired little Mouseketeers made for
    a less than enjoyable stay. This led the parents to remember their
    vacation in a light not as enjoyable as they had imagined.
    
    In July '90 I passed by a young boy being potty trained...OUT FRONT OF
    THE MILE LONG BAR IN FRONTIERLAND. The parents did not look happy. 
    
    Then there was the Electrical Light Parade which had beautifully lit
    floats that could not be seen by young children who had fallen asleep
    after a long day. The ones who were awake couldn't see the floats
    either.....lack of patience prevented them from finding a good spot and
    waiting 30 minutes or so for the parade.
    
    Oh yes...then there is a friend of mine who had to leave an attraction
    during a show because one of his 3 year olds was screaming because the
    little tyke didn't care for the show.
    
    I won't mention the time a small child was knocked over by someone in a
    character costume because the child was so small the costumed cast
    member didn't spot the child...due to the sight limitations of the
    costume.
    
    I'm sure you'd get plenty of dirty looks when taking your diapered
    child into Typhoon Lagoon's Wave Pool.
    
    For what it's worth please reconsider your thoughts about going until
    you recognize exactly what you want to get out of your visit to Walt's
    place and whether or not your young family is ready. 
    
    Remember, WDW's Silver Anniversary occurs Oct. 1, 1996 - Sept. 30 1997. 
    At that time your children will be between the ages of 5 and 7. Hmmm
    sounds like a "magical" age to me.
    
    If you end up going this year I hope it meets your expectations and you
    can help others make the tough decision you are faced with by entering
    a trip report in the Disney Conference.
    
    Mike Scopa
    Co-Moderator
    Disney Conference

    I'd like to thank the people who responded to this note about taking
    young children to WDW.  My folks live in St. Pete, and so before
    Michael was born, every time we visited them we'd take a side trip for
    a few days over to WDW.  My wife loves that place better than anywhere
    we've ever been except Maui.  We spent one New Year's Eve there that
    was positively magical.
    
    We've both been eagerly anticipating taking Michael when he gets old
    enough.  He just turned 2, and we were talking about taking him next
    fall.  Now that I've read this note, I don't think he'll be ready by
    then.  It's very hard to contain our enthusiasm and force ourselves to
    objectively look at how Michael would view such a trip.  But you folks
    are right -- he wouldn't really understand a whole lot about the
    attractions, couldn't go on many of the rides, would hate the lines,
    and would probably be afraid of the characters.
    
    It's disappointing, but I think we'll wait another couple of years
    before we vacation at WDW again.  Thanks for opening my eyes!
    
    Steve

    We have taken kids to WDW as infants <1, at 4, 5, 9.  I would say that
    earlier than 4 is probably a waste.  Infants are easy to handle but
    they don't care and they do manage to ruin your enjoyment (somebody has
    to stay with them!).  The 4 & 5's are wonderful, and my son at 9 was in
    seventh heaven!! 
    
    I agree with the folks who talked about the little ones getting
    frightened.  One thing that struck me is that they think that the
    creatures are all smaller than they are (from TV) and these huge
    WD characters are very scary!
    

    Well the votes are in and I'd say the overall recommendation is to hold
    off on Disney World for a coupe years.  HOWEVER, we have chosen to to
    go against the grain and do the following.
    
    Spend 3 days on the beach (St. Pete or Sarasota) and 4 days at Disney.
    We got a nice affordable place off the Disney grounds on the 1st floor
    of a hotel with sliding doors out to a pool.  Kids can sleep and we will
    be close enough to watch them as we lounge around the pool.  We already
    have 2 day Disney passes from our visit 3 years ago, so if it gets to
    hectic and we only get a few hours of Disney in I won't feel so bad.
    
    We plan on also visiting my old college and my wife used to live in
    Sarasota so we can go down memory lane there as well.  
    
    So we did some compromizing and hopefully all will be happy.
    
    John

    re: a couple back
    
    Steve, I think if you and Pat want to go to WDW because *you*
    enjoy it, you should go ahead and go.  There will be plenty of
    things you will all enjoy doing, and at Michael's age whether he
    remembers it isn't as important as whether he enjoys it.  Steven
    certainly had a good time when he was barely old enough to walk.
    
    You can buy into all the advertising hype about the "magic" of
    Disney, but at bottom all WDW is is a fun place to spend a
    vacation.  It's a relatively expensive place to spend a vacation,
    so you may need to consider whether it's worth the $$$$, or
    whether they'd enjoy something else more, but it is only a
    vacation.  
    
    Going with a kid who's too young to have seen the advertising, too
    young to know the parts he's "supposed" to like, and too young to
    stay in line (except when he's napping) gave us a whole new
    perspective on a place we'd been getting a little tired of. 
    Steven wouldn't eat his expensive french fries for lunch, but he
    would feed them to the seagull who was perching on the railing,
    and the look of joy on his face every time the gull dove down to
    the water to snatch another fry was worth a lot more than two
    trips through Snow White.  We discovered all the bushes shaped
    like animals (they aren't all on the bank outside the main gate). 
    We found out there's a courtyard and a little ice cream stand and
    a row of little shops to the right of the bridge to Adventureland,
    where it runs into the colonial America section, and we had ice
    cream while Steven watched the swan boats go by.
    
    Besides, if you take Michael this year and he doesn't remember it,
    then you've got an excuse to take him again when he's 4 :) :)
    
    --bonnie

My in-laws live in Orlando, so we managed to get to Disney every year or two.
When my son was about 15 months we took him there for the first time.  He was
terrified of most of the people that were dressed up as Disney characters, and
didn't even notice the rides for the most part. We saw a small amount of the
park of over one day, because there were many requisite stops to eat and change
diapers, etc... 

We took him again this year when he was just over 3 years, and he had a blast.
This time he saw a large portion of the Magic Kingdom in one day, and lesser
portions of Epcot and MGM on a second day, and Sea World on a third day. (By the
4th day, he was over the edge and we left him with the in-laws while we went to
Universal.) He knew most of the characters, and was familiar with the stories
behind some of the rides.  This time he really enjoyed many of the rides, but he
was scared on some of them. For example, he was frightened on both Snow White
and Pete Pan (two of his favorite stories) which had very little to do with the
stories, and for him were dark and scary.

Every child is different, but my personnel opinion is if you are going for your
child, and its a choice between going now or in a year or two, you should wait.
In a year or so, he will be potty trained, will be easy to feed, and will be
familiar with many of the characters and themes.

Ken

    John -
    
    I just got back from Disneyland with my 19 month old daughter. Granted,
    some of the things she didn't care about, but she did have fun.  She
    loved the train ride.  And in the children's area (Storyland?), she
    loved the rides Dumbo, It's a Small World (2x), the boat rides, the
    merry-go-round.  She also met Mickey and Minnie, a Chipmonk (Chip or
    Dale?), and Balou the Bear from Jungle Book.  She did ok in
    Frontierland on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride but definitely did
    not like the Haunted Mansion.  I think for the most part it was a lot
    of fun and worth any trouble.. and also, because she was under 3 years
    old, she was free!  Oh, the Tiki Bird House was a big hit too.
    
    Have fun!
    Mary