Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Not being there in the situation, I would hardly be the one to pass
    judgement on the parent.  Yes fear can/will literally paralize you!
    
    All I can say is Thank God you had the sense and courage to react to
    the situation.  If you read my note 199, the parents didn't react and
    the result was tragic.
    
    Check with local protocols, however, I recall that backblows may have
    been eliminated, and chest thrust (Himlich manever) is the only thing
    being done now (American Red Cross procedures), at least in Adults if
    not in infants and children.
    
    I will check as well with our EMS director and post a correction if
    needed.
    
    God bless you for reacting, and averting a tradgedy!
    Lyn

    As a parent of three VERY active boys I have ALWAYS been paranoid about
    choking.  My husband always jokes about how small I cut up my two years
    olds meat.  When we have "choky" kind of food I don't think I
    completely relax until the meal is over.  The older kids tease me about
    it now but they also are very quick to tell their little brother to put
    his arms up over his head if they think he's choking!
    
    I'm amazed at the reaction of the parents at the party you went to. 
    They should be thankful you were there or they may not be having a very
    happy holiday season!
    
    Linda

    We were at a restaurant once and my daughter started choking on oyster
    crackers.  At that time I hadn't taken any CPR/First Aid courses, so I
    panicked.  My husband started banging her on the back (she was about 16
    months) and eventually it came out.  I did notice though that not one
    person in the rest. even got out of their seats to help.  I mean it was
    obvious that we were hysterical.  I am in no way judging these people,
    I was just so surprised and at that point realized that it was up to me
    to take the course (which I did).
    
    BTW, was the child coughing or making any noise.  Because if they are
    making noise (coughing) then they aren't really choking.  Maybe the
    mother knew this and in this case the best thing to do is let the
    person/child cough it out.
    
    
    Joyce B.
    

    
    I wasn't there so I really hesitate to make judgements. I'm the mother
    of a GAGGER and the wife of an ALARMIST - so we have lots of episodes
    at our house!
    
    I FORCE myself to remain calm when my 18 month old starts gagging. If
    a stranger grabbed her in a restaurant - my reaction might seem
    nonchalant - until I scrape daddy off the ceiling.
    
    Rochelle   

    I always try and remain calm, there are enough others around panicking
    so as it is good to have a cool head.  I also do not act unless the
    child is not passing any air.  I believe the protocol for choking is
    first the three blows to the back and if that does not dislodge the
    article, then you go to the heimlich maneuver.
    
    
    Mike

    
    This information is provided by the American Red Cross on choking.
    
    CONSCIOUS, CHOKING
    
    Can they speak, gasp, cough, wheeze, etc?
    
    YES - Leave alone.  Watch carefully.  No back blows.
    
    NO - ADULT or CHILD: 6 - 10 abdominal thrusts 
         INFANT: 4 back blows and 4 chest thrusts
    
    Note: for infants - shrill sound with no cry means they need help
                        with breathing.
    
    
    -Chris

    
    The lack of thanks says to me that these parents were probably deeply
    disturbed under their apparent cool. Sometimes adults react outwardly
    in what is often an "expected" manner while they are falling apart
    inside.
    

    re: .6
    
    Chris-
    
    I'm very surprised that the Red Cross no longer advocates trying to
    perform back blows before attempting abdominal thrusts in adults. I
    wonder why adults and children would be treated any differently, given
    that everyone has the same anatomy...just in different sizes. Do you
    have a date on the Red Cross guidelines you posted in your reply?
    
    In Sunday's situation, the child was not passing any air or sounds and
    exhibited other symptoms if choking (mouth open with tongue hanging and
    color changing from pale to red to purple...luckily the meat was
    dislodged before he could turn blue). I just reacted as I did years ago
    when I learned CPR (a LONG time ago). Guess it's time for a refresher
    course if the guidelines have changed.
    
    I agree with -1 that the mother in this situation was probably scared
    witless by this episode, which explains her casualness about the whole
    thing. I guess I became disturbed about her action, combined with the
    other mother's casualness about the barrette episode, and wondered how
    you all felt about this subject. Thanks for the input.
    
    Nancy-

    re .7, that's ME exactly!  I can't tell you how many times I reacted
    calmly, only to fall apart when I knew he was all right, or being cared
    for by someone more qualified than I!
    
    Like the incident last month when AJ fell off the playground, I very
    calmly put a napkin from the car on it, put him in the front seat, even
    remembered to buckle the seatbelt, and drove calmly to meet the
    ambulance at the barn.  Once I had handed him over to my coworkers on
    the ambulance I literally fell apart and became the hysterical mother.
    (a period of about 10 to 15 minutes total).  Maybe I'm just a little
    slower to react?
    
    Lyn

    re: .8
    
    Nancy-
    
    Backblows are not done on either Adults or Children. They are only
    performed on Infants in conjunction with chest thrusts. This is 
    because it is easy to invert an infant. The head must be lower than
    the chest. Otherwise you run the risk of forcing the obstruction even
    deeper into the airway.
    
    The guidelines for American Red Cross 1st Aid and CPR have had some 
    major changes in the past 2 years. This is one of the reasons that
    the CPR certification only lasts 1 year. There is also a new way of
    becoming recertified without going through the entire course again.
    Provided you hold a current certification, you can study the text on
    your own then take the written exam and perform the drills using the
    manikins. This should take about half an hour to complete for the 
    basic Adult CPR. This way people will be less likely to let their cert.
    lapse.
    
    Brenda
    (ARC Adult 1st Aid/CPR instructor)

    re .10....  ummmm Brenda, check again on the every year re-cert.
    
    There is a lively discussion going on in the Fire_Rescue_EMS notes on
    this subject.  Seems cards are now renewed every TWO years.  Several of
    the NH EMT's were just issued new CPR cards with a '93 expiration.
    
    Now back to what sounds like a do it yourself CPR course, I like that
    idea, but that's the EMT in me speaking.  For the most part recert
    courses, which can be in the vicinty of 10 hours are boredom bigtime,
    to the lay person I would approach a self-paced course with a little
    hesitation.  People who don't do CPR on a regular basis, would IMO,
    need more hands on refreshing.
    
    Lyn

    I have a card from the Red Cross 
    
    
    front of card...
    "This certifies that 
    _(me)________________________
    has completed the ADULT CPR
    course of instruction 
    at _____Digital Equipment Corporation____
    ____August 19, 1991____
    Date course completed
    
    			(signature)-->George F. Moody
    			 Chairman, American Red Cross"
    back of card
    "NOTE:  Training in Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)
    is valid for one year from the course completion date.
    
    Name of Chapter ___________________________________
    Chapter Respesentative ____________________________
    Instructor ________________________________________
    Holder's Signature ________________________________"
    
    Roberta

    Not long ago I just completed my yearly CPR certification course.  I
    haven't looked in the Fire_Rescue_EMS notes but I was told to be
    certified you have to take it every year.  The first aid part of it is
    every two years.  But either way, there have been changes to CPR just
    about every year since I started taking it 6 years ago.
    
    Marie

    I NOT trying to start a rathole here... I too am holding a card, about
    to expire with a one year renewal.
    
    I have sent mail to the author of the EMS note asking for
    clarification, since he resides in and works for a NH service, it may be
    different there.  If I can't get a clear answer my next move might be
    the Central Mass EMS corp., which is our clearing house for all
    in-service training. This has caused much discussion among several
    groups, we're not not alone here.
    
    re: a couple back...your card says "ADULT" CPR?  Would that not
    translate into the old "heartsaver" courses the company gives?  CM-EMS
    says that I can't take the courses given by DEC, they are not considered 
    by the Comm of Mass to be enough, my card say BLS (Basic Life Support) CPR,
    which is infant, child, adult one and two man CPR, plus obstructed airway 
    for all three categories, it involves 10+ hours classroom plus the
    written and practical test.
    
    Lyn
    (EMT Oxford MA)

Perhaps the parents were embarrassed????

Once we gave Kimmi Jo chips at a Mexican Restaurant and she began to choke.
Both of us knocked over our chairs to get to her.  David didn't have a clue
so he gave moral support while I turned her upside down and did back thrusts.
It came out before the first thrust.

While nobody got out of their chairs to help, I was a little embarrassed about
causing such a scene, and merely sat back in my chair like nothing had
happened!  I still shiver when I think about it, though.....

Re:  expiration rathole - my LIFESAVING card lasts 2 years, but my CPR card
lasts one year.  Both issued by Red Cross.

Kristen