Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Personally, I have removed my son from a daycare where the provider's
    child was being allowed to act as brat, and my son was made to be
    second to her child. BUT...that was strictly a provider situation.  It
    seems you have more to loose than just a provider, a friendship it
    seems.  So in light of that I'd say that you talk to Sue and tell her
    your concerns.  Maybe she is just unaware she's become a little lax in
    her own rules, and just needs some gentle reminder.  If not, then
    perhaps we can give you suggestions on how to change your daycare
    arrangements without risking a friendship.
    
    Is she licensed?
    

>For one thing, Sue (the provider) smokes.  When I picked up Michelle the other 

I would do more than say something ... I'd vote with my feet here ...

>Shouldn't 3-yr olds be learning to share?  In the 4 or 5 similar episodes

Sharing is not a natural habit, and being able to teach sharing is difficult
especially when the child is too young to understand that sharing has
rewards too.  To a child who is forced to SHARE, sharing is the same as
giving away your rights to what is supposed to be yours.  It builds
resentment.  I don't think that the child should necessarily be taught to
share per se, but should definitely be taught acceptable behaviour, and
attempting to snatch and then scream is not acceptable behaviour.  Sharing
will then come with maturity.

I have a niece who has been hit with the "you've got to share" message
on many occasions.  As a result, for a while, when kids arrived at their
house, she'd hide toys in her bedroom closet ... "I don't want to share
toys" ... and thus was unable to play with them herself!  It got better
as she later realised that they could both play with many toys, together.

So, difficult concept and difficult to teach effectively.  So, I'd give the
sitter some lattitude here, but it would certainly concern me.

However, on the first issue alone, unless there were some problems about
finding an alternative, I'd have my kid out pdq.  While I can't stop others
smoking, I won't pt up with it where I have an option!

Stuart

    Oooooh a touchy subject for me right now!  I have just in the past week
    switched my son to a new sitter.  At first this new sitter was only
    going to be used on a temporary basis, for instance, when my regular
    sitter was sick and couldn't watch my son.  Well, last Friday was the
    first day to use the "new" sitter.  When I dropped Shane off I
    mentioned to her that he was extremly sensitive and cried if told "no". 
    Upon picking him up she said to me, "When you tell Shane "no", do you
    say, "no no" or do you yell "no" to him?"  I said, I only yell when I
    feel that he's in immediate danger because I'm frightened that he may
    get hurt.  She said, "You don't ever hit him do you?".  I was floored,
    why was she asking me this?  Of course I'd never hit my son, he's only
    15 months old.  I told her that I didn't believe in hitting babies. 
    She said, "Well, I hope to God that your other sitter hasn't been
    hitting him, because not only does he cry when you say "no" to him, he
    cowers".  I had noticed it, but being a first time mother, I thought
    this to be normal behaviour and took it as him just being overly
    sensitive.  I confronted my regular sitter with this and she became
    very defensive.  She then told me that she was given permission to hit
    the other little girl she watches if she should "get out of hand", (I
    couldn't believe that a mother would give someone else permission to
    hit their 11 month old baby) but she would never hit Shane unless I had
    given her permission and that maybe he was reacting because he saw her
    hit Jessica and it frightened him.  I was b*llsh*t when she told me
    this.  I wanted to go over there and slap her and see how she liked it. 
    At that point I decided that she would no longer be watching my son. 
    It has been a week now that my son has been with the "new" sitter and
    for the past two days when I've said, "no no" to him, he hasn't cried
    nor cowered, he's just stopped what he was doing to warrant the "no no"
    and gone about doing something else.  He's also sleeping a lot better
    at night.  
    
    So what I'm getting at is, if you have any suspicion to believe that
    something isn't just right, act on it, you may be saving your child
    from some unneeded trauma.
    
    Lori B.  

One thing I did do a couple of months ago was bring some of Michelle's toys
over.  Maybe I should bring more.

Yes, Sue is my friend, so that does make it tough.  Plus, she really does
love Michelle.  I don't want to put her off.

The smoking does not bother me in general, it's just that smelling Michelle's
hair the other day started images in my mind of ashes falling in her hair,
yucky stuff like that.

I think I will talk to her about the smoking.  Talking to her about her
daughter's behaviour, I don't know yet.  That's touchy.

Thanks for the help.  Any more advice is appreciated.

Kyra

>>  I wanted to go over there and slap her and see how she liked it. 

Give me the address; I'll go with you.  No seriously, I guess 2 wrongs don't
make a right.  We're going down a rathole, but how can anyone hit an 11-month
old baby?

If anything, Sue, Michelle's caregiver, is *too* easygoing in discipline (seems
like none at all sometimes) and it shows in her 3-yr old.

Kyra

    Mind if I go to, .3 and .5? 
    
    Anyway, definitely talk to Sue about her smoking.  I have known of
    several instances where someone actually gave up smoking because
    they were doing daycare and they realized that the kids were being
    harmed by passive smoke.  You may actually be doing her a favor --
    and she may be grateful for the "excuse" to quit!
    
    The screaming bit...I can't stomach that behavior, not even in my
    own kids, although I have seen James do exactly the same thing that
    Beth does, and we don't consider him particularly spoiled.  Perhaps you
    could approach Sue from the standpoint of, the screaming seems to
    upset Michelle and she seems to be learning that "he who screams
    the loudest wins;" that you're afraid that Michelle will never learn
    to stand up for herself and could you and Sue talk to both girls about
    how sharing means more fun for everyone.  But don't expect that to
    change overnight.
    
    The acid test is, how strongly do you want to move Michelle to another
    environment?  Will it help or hurt you and your family if you do so?
    How much time/money/energy are you willing to invest in a daycare
    search?  Do you feel that these are things that *can* be settled,
    or are you secretly afraid that the whole thing -- daycare, friendship,
    etc. -- is slowing going down the drain?
    
    Good luck....
    
    Kate

    re: .5 & .6
    
    I'm going over there tonight cause I have to pick up Shane's
    belongings.  Meet me in downtown Fitchburg at 6:00 and you can go with
    me. :-)
    
    Lori B.

    
    On the subject of Beth's behaviour toward Michelle:
    
    My son (2+ years) is in home daycare with another child (4+ years).
    One or the other of them usually acts up (grabbing toys, giving
    bear hugs when the other doesn't want one, screaming, etc) shortly
    after I arrive to pick up Jason.   Mary, our sitter, says that they
    are fine until the parents come - at which point they start competing
    for our attention.  I think she's right - I know these kids don't act 
    like this all day long or Mary would have lost her mind by now!!   
    Now, my situation is a bit different in that our sitter does not 
    have young children of her own to care for, but the possibility 
    does exist that Beth's behaviour is only poor when you're there
    (giving Michelle "extra" attention) and Sue may not be disciplining
    her because this behaviour is "outside the norm".   Maybe it might
    be worthwhile to ask something like "Do the kids play well/share
    together during the day?".
    
    Just a thought,
    Carol                   

    Personally, I have trouble believing that the environment that a
    child spends more than half her waking hours in shouldn't be
    regarded as a major part of her upbringing.  If Sue has already
    managed to bring her own daughter up to be a spoiled brat, do you
    really want to find out how she'll bring up Michelle?
    
    	-Neil

    
    re: .3 -- There are laws against abuse of children.  If your daycare
              provider is licensed, contact the OFFICE OF CHILDREN and they
              will investigate and can close the daycare.
                                                                 
    

    re: .10
    
    My provider is not licensed.  She is no longer watching my son!!! :-)
    :-)  But she is still watching the other little girl.  How do I go
    about reporting suspicion of abuse?
    
    Lori B.

We, too, had a bad experience with a "home care" provider, who ALSO was a
friend.

There are pros, but there can be SO MANY CONS with having your friend as your
home care provider!  We were up against similar problems that you are, Kyra:

1)  The daycare provider's daughter was "bigger", more aggressive and more
    physical ... and 5 months older.  Juli quickly learned to fight, fight
    dirty (bite, scratch, scream, throw tantrums) ... do some real shocking
    stuff!

2)  Juli's typical lunch consisted of canned spagettio's, boxed macraroni
    and cheese, cereal or McDonald's ... and a ton of sugar-loaded fruit
    punch!

3)  Juli got a nap when it was convenient ... usually fell asleep 20 minutes
    before I was scheduled to pick her up -- in the van on a cold winter day,
    on the floor ... wherever she seemed to collapse.

4)  The home care provider also admitted to "giving Juli pats on the diaper"
    to get her attention  (Jim/I don't believe in spanking -- and pats
    is spanking in our book!  The provider knew we disapproved, but continued
    doing things her way, just chose not to tell us things she knew we
    didn't approve of!).

5)  Juli's average day consisted of sitting in the highchair, playing with
    the same toys, playing with the daycare provider's kids,
    watching TV or running errands (and being left in the
    van with a 5-year-old's supervision!!!!)  We adamantly told the provider
    this will NEVER happen again!, yet after Juli was pulled from home care,
    we learned it happened many, many times AFTER we told her never to do it
    again!

6)  Juli gained NO social development from her home care environment, she
    had very little intellectual stimuli, Juli's attitude and behavior was
    horrible and embarrassing!, Juli rarely played outdoors or was taken
    on a field trip.

BTW, Juli was 13-17 months of age while in this home care environment.

Thank Goodness, Jim/I recognized the problems (through Juli's behavior,
as your provider is NEVER GOING TO ADMIT to anything!!!!  She'll always
tell you just what you want to hear!).

Juli has been attending the same learning center (Hudson Children's Center)
since 17 months of age (she's now 25 months old).  They have done WONDERFUL
things for Juli.  She knows her entire alphabet, can count to 16 (without
prompting), bakes (something - usually cookies) once a week, has gym AND
music instructors twice a week, takes private swimming lessons (yes!, they
have an inground pool!) during the summer, plays outdoors in the morning
and afternoon, has a structured program of reading, indoor play, activities,
arts/crafts ... and they do field trips once a month (Boston Aquarium,
NE Science Museum, Children's Museum, apple orchard ...).  And when we
computed the hourly rate, the learning center is much cheaper than home
care!!!!

We can't begin to describe the turn-around in Juli's attitude and behavior.
She's such a happy, fun-loving, easy-going, likeable kid ... she shares
... she laughs a lot, talks a lot, sings all kinds of songs (many of which
I have never heard before!) ... and she just started ballet/tap dance and
the instructor marvelled about Juli's personality and development ... her
ability to follow instruction, follow the other children, and "enjoy"
herself.  The instructor said that "Juli just makes you laugh ...".  Juli
will trust strangers (she went to and stayed with her dance instructor
during the first lesson ... new babysitters are NO problem for Juli!) and
pretty much listen to us and behave (well, as best you can expect from a
2-year old!).

People say Terrible-Two's are just horrible!  For me, the pre-two's was
a killer!  The Two's are a piece o' cake!!  (I can't help but think Juli's
"care" environment had -- and currently has! -- a lot to do with this!).

There are good home care providers out there ... but for "us", HANDS DOWN
the learning center can't be beat!!!  (And a ton of kiddo's to the learning
center's staff ... they are the ones that make the center so successful
and are so important to the children's OVERALL development (physical, mental,
social ... as well as their personalities and overall happiness and trust).

Thanks, Hudson Children's Center!!!

Good luck, Kyra ...

Dottie

PS:  When we discuss "anything" with Juli's instructor(s) or director,
     THEY LISTEN and CARE!  I honestly cannot recall anything that Jim/I
     disapproved of, but we did questions some things (like calling 
     teachers/parents "Mr. or Mrs.", "recommended" procedures, etc.

    Even if your provider is NOT licensed, you can still report her to the
    Office for Chilren. Not sure where she is, but there is an office in
    Downtown Worcestere as well as either Fitchburg, Gardner, Leomnister
    area.
    
    The OFC is very clear in it's statement that "anyone who watches
    children not their own MUST be licensed".  If you do pursue the
    complaint it can be done anonymously, if you state that to them at the
    time of complaint.  They have somthing like 10 days to investigate your
    complaint.  If she is in fact watching chilren, without a license, she
    had better forget about ever getting herself licensed.
    
    Unfortunately I registered a complaint about a caregiver a couple years
    ago, her son was biting my son, and the provider was doing nothing. 
    The last several times I have had to call the referral agencies, her
    name is still being given out, despite my complaint.  Real reasuring
    isn't it?
    
    Lyn

    You can file a complant with the OFC.  You tell them that you want to
    file an abuse/neglect complant (I think its a 51A) and they will ask
    you the providers name, etc.  You should tell them that she is not only
    abusing your child but the other that she watches also.  She will be in
    deep trouble with them, for one because she is not licensed and for the
    complant.
    
    They had an incident here in Maynard about a year and a half ago where
    a provider who was not licensed was watching approx 3 children and one
    got in her pool area cause the gate was not locked and died a few
    months later of brain damage cause from falling in the water.  the
    Child was only 3 years old and the provider was in the front yard of
    her home while the kids played outside.  now I know that a provider
    that has a pool has to have a 6 foot fence and a locked gate at all
    times.  I know this cause my old daycare provider had a pool.  this
    lady can't never be licensed again in the state of Mass.  And the other
    children were taken away and placed in other daycares.
    
    But for what its worth I would contac the OFC and file a complant
    before this person permently hurts one of these kids.
    
    Liz

    
    
    
    	The OFC in Leominster, Gardner, and Fitchburg have all been 
    	closed to to cut backs the OFC in Worcester handles all of
    	these area's now.  The number is 791-2869.  
    
    	Yes you should call.  For the sake of the children she is
    	watching.  
    
    	Good Luck!  Lisa

    Thanks Lisa.  I will be giving them a call.
    
    Lori B.

    Just to make sure it's clear -- note .13 applies ONLY to
    MASSACHUSETTS.  
    
    Each state has its own laws regulating licensing.  In New Hampshire you
    do NOT have to be licensed if you are caring for fewer than three
    unrelated children in your home.  
    
    --bonnie

    Dottie,
    
    I suspect you didn't see the 20/20 piece showing the centers that
    mistreated children.  Your note shows that you are obviously against
    home care and that is finie.  Please do not try to insinuate that
    home care is lacking and suspect.  My wife does home care and does a
    darn fine job.  Crafts, story time, field trips to the library,
    learning hour are all part of the childrens day along with play time
    and nap time.  Also my wife is not licensed.  She does have a degree in
    education though as well as taking daycare courses at a local community
    college.  She is also trained in CPR both infant and adult.
    
    
    Mike 

    Mike,
    
    Dottie's note did not indicate that she is against home care or that
    home care is necessarily lacking.  It just says that she is
    thrilled with her current arrangement and that, if you're unhappy with
    your arrangement, you CAN find something better.
    
    That's great that your wife provides terrific home environment.  As
    with anything, there are good and bad.  
    
    -Tracy
    

    Sorry Tracy, but things said such as:
    
    I doubt we will EVER return to a home care environment!!
    
    We too had a bad experience with a "home care" provider (insinuating by
    the parenthesis that home care is not legitimate)
    
    and 
    
    Thank goodness, Jim/I recognized the problems (through Juli's behavior,
    as your provider is NEVER GOING TO ADMIT to anything!!! She'll always
    tell you just what you want to hear!).
    
    is pretty indicative of someone is is not for home care.  The
    punctuation, the caps and the tone is very anti home care.  Now true,
    this is how I read it and if I misunderstood, I apologise.  I just
    don't like seeing a whole critical part of society taken down in one
    fell swoop just because there are incompetents out there.
    
    Mike

    That should be are indicative, not is.
    
    Mike

Mike:

I did see the TV program on a "few chosen" daycare centers ... and as was
said previously ... there are good and there are bad ... both with homecare
and with daycare centers alike.

We had a bad experience, VERY SIMILAR WITH .0's experience!  That's not
saying all homecare is bad ... any more than I will say all daycare centers
are good ... OR BAD (based on a few random samplings broadcast nationwide).
(I have also read and viewed a fair share of bad publicity on home care
providers, too! -- so let's be fair when we bring up bad publicity & cons, OK?)

Overall, I believe providers -- home care and daycare -- do a wonderful job, 
                                ---------------------
however, the environments are "usually" quite different
and you should evaluate what best fits you and your child's needs and
personality.

... as stated, Jim/I are very, very happy with OUR daycare center ... 
and was unhappy and disappointed with OUR home care provider.

SoBeIt ...
Dottie

PS:  I've also read plenty about those bad software engineers in the world,
     but I don't take it personally ... 

>> We had a bad experience, VERY SIMILAR WITH .0's experience!

To clear things up, I've not had a bad experience, I'm just relating a few 
concerns I have at this time.  It is interesting how you can get all kinds of
different connotations from the written word.

Sue (the provider) has been my friend for years; therefore I trust that the
things she tells me are truthful.  She admitted to me when she once gave 
Michelle french fries (I instruct her to give no junk food), without my
asking what Michelle had to eat that day.  She tries to take the kids outside 
every day, which I asked for; I could go on and on how she tries to do what I 
want.  I just brought up these 2 points (smoking and Beth's behaviour) because 
I didn't know exactly how to handle them.  Generally, I am satisfied with Sue 
and think it would not be worth the trouble and possible trauma for Michelle 
and myself to switch Michelle out.

I liked the comment about maybe pickup/dropoff time is a time for exceptional
behaviour.  But I also liked the comment about talking with Sue, including
Beth and Michelle in on the conversation.  I will do so next chance I get.

I don't believe that just because you have a few concerns you just ditch
the whole situation and start anew.  It seemed that some replies to my original
note considered jumping on that bandwagon.  You don't approach other 
relationships in your life that way.  I hope Sue and I can work things out, for
all our sakes.  Of course, if we can't, I will have to consider an alternative
care situation.  I also think that there *will* be things (small things) that I 
can just live with, no matter if Michelle is in home care, daycare, school,
or whatever.  The hard part is trying to sort out the difference, and 
then dealing with those things correctly.

Thanks for all the advice,
Kyra

    Just to add my .02
    
    I have a homecare provider who I wouldn't trade for any Daycare Center. 
    She's been my provider since my 8 year old was 10 mos. old and has
    taken on my two younger children with no trouble.  She has adjusted her
    pricing to take my income into account, she never charges overtime when
    the kids have to stay later, she listens when I have a problem, and she
    thinks my kids are great!
    
    With all of that she's not perfect - she used to smoke but, fortunately
    quit when she got double pnemonia.  She has the TV on too much (but
    makes sure the kids get outside every day for walks and play).  We had
    a bad problem about5 years ago and I was forced to find alternate care. 
    In three months I went through 3 sitters (Institutional daycare was too
    expensive so not an option) and my kids were a mess.  When we got back
    with our original sitter we talked things out and everything has been
    fine since then.
    
    My point is that no daycare provider - in home or otherwise is perfect. 
    I too, thought that Dottie's reply was a bit too harsh against inhome
    daycare.  It's each persons own feelings and experiences which will
    determine their "ideal" daycare arrangement.  Mine is inhome - Dottie's
    is at a Center.  The original noter is correct to try to work things
    out with her friend.  The alternatives (as in my experience) can really
    make you see that things aren't as bad as you think.
    
    Good luck - just wanted to get a plug in for at home caregivers!
    
    Linda

I have not got time to read all of this string but have to reply as I feel so
strongly about this.

	ALWAYS REPORT ABUSERS

I was beaten by a day care provider when I was a baby and it affected me for
years after!

I would never recommend to anyone that they give a day care provider permission
to hit their child, whatever their personal feelings about it.

Finally, to the author of .0, do you think a person who smokes in the same
room as a baby is a suitable person to care for that baby?

/Dave.

>> Finally, to the author of .0, do you think a person who smokes in the same
>> room as a baby is a suitable person to care for that baby?

Dave,
1.  My name is Kyra.  
2.  My mother, father and *thousands*, maybe of *millions*, of parents like 
    them are/were smokers and I don't think it affected their ability to "care 
    for a baby", whatever that phrase specifically means.  Granted, nowadays 
    there is information coming out about passive smoke affects, if that's
    what you're referring to.  Because of that, so many people are quitting, 
    including many parents.  It just so happens my caregiver wants to quit and 
    has tried a couple of times but hasn't been successful yet.  I don't know,
    maybe you meant there might be times she wants to finish her cigarette
    rather than tend to my daughter or something ludicrous like that.  Well,
    that is not the case here.

I don't like that Sue smokes, but I like a lot of other things about her.  And
now I've invested 8 months of my daughter's short life in this situation.  I
don't want to just throw it out like that.  I personally do not have a vendetta
against smokers like some people do.  They are people too.  I did talk to Sue
about the smoking and she felt bad that Michelle smelled like smoke.  She said
she will try to be very careful about not smoking around the kids.  And I
believe she will.

Kyra

Re.26:

Hi Kyra,
	what I meant was, if Sue knew you didn't like smoke near the baby, and
knows of the harm it can do, then what is the excuse? What other baby care
considerations might she compromise on?

I don't have a vendetta against smokers either but I won't let one near my boy.

/Dave.

>>	what I meant was, if Sue knew you didn't like smoke near the baby, and
>>knows of the harm it can do, then what is the excuse? What other baby care
>>considerations might she compromise on?

Point taken.  In this case, she made a mistake; we talked about it and she
felt bad.  In any kind of relationships, people "backslide".  My job is to 
monitor and keep things the way I want them.

Thanks for the input,
Kyra

    
    Hi,
    
    	The last time I entered a note in this conference, my son was 6
    	months old, and my daughter was much less than a gleam in the eye.
    
    	Well Daniel is now 3 and Nicole is 19 months.
    
    	Perhaps that explains why I have no time to read notes!
    
    	It's crisis time, and I'm here looking for advice.  We had Daniel
    	in daycare (the nursurie in berlin), and then with a nanny who 
    	comes into our house.
    
    	After 19 months, our in home situation is becoming unbearable, and
    	we have decided to put the kids back into a center.  Just a few of
    	the annoyances.  She takes the kids out when ever she feels like it
    	probably 4 times a week. 
    
    	The house is always a mess when my wife gets home, and she has to 
    	spend half an hour (or more) cleaning up.
    
    	The kids have pulled the wallpaper (new) off the wall in my sons
    	room.
    
    	She has a newborn and a toddler of her own, and I see it as too
    	much for her to handle, and the kids are not getting watched.
    
    	My kids are allowed to play with guns, directly against my request,
    	and they come home obsessed with guns.  All I hear about is guns
    	until bedtime.
    
    	Now for the questions:
    
    		1.  I want to let her go.  Am I being unreasonable?
    
    		2.  Has anyone heard good or bad things about a daycare
    			center in Webster Mass, called FUNdamentals?
    
    	

We had many live-in nannies.  The first lesson we learned is, "if it doesn't
work, if they don't live up to your rules, get rid of them soonest."  I always
did it this way with a new girl.  When she arrived we spent at least a 
weekend learning the house and her duties.  Then I gave her one or two weeks
to "work in".  I corrected things I didn't like during this period, always
immediately (never save up a list and dump it on them all at once!).

Then, after that if there was something they did wrong in spite of what I 
said, I would have a "serious" talk.  I would say, "Maybe you don't remember
but I want the beds made so".  If they continued doing it wrong, I would ask
myself, "Is this a BIG thing with me or can I live with it."  If it was a
BIG thing, the girl was sent packing (after sufficient warning and enough
time on both sides to find a new situation."  The only one I fired on the
spot stole.

Do not live with a bad situation.  You'll only stress yourself out and get 
ulcers.

My 2 sous.

ccb

Moderator note:  anyone with advice or comments about FUNdamentals
(or any other daycare center), please *mail* them to Vince.

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator

    
    Hi,
    
    Just wanted to offer a little support, although I don't know
    FUNdamentals. You could ask to have a list of parents who have their
    children in the center and ask them real questions. Also, when you
    visit - do a drop in - so they don't expect you, and talk with a few
    parents.  If it a good center they don't mind, but certainly don't tell
    then when you are going to 'drop in', for obvious reasons.
    
    Have you called DEC's referral service?  I have in the past and they
    are most helpful.  I was once considering nannies and they sent a
    wonderful package including a videotape on 'interviewing nanny skills',
    all free of charge.
        
    This is one way to investigate the center.  Call the town and the board 
    of health, the better business bureau, the department for children and 
    check out how recently their license was renewed.  
    
    I'm very lucky to have a great center and to also be 5 minutes from
    them.  Drop in's are a regular with me and are never scheduled.  I like
    to see just what is really happening when I'm away and I've never been
    sorry or saddened in the 21 months my daughter has been there.  
    
    Good luck,
    
    Rose Marie

    

Cheryl:

We had a similar situation with our (first) homecare provider.  It came to
a head when we had to take an emergency 3-week trip out West and that's when
my daughter's behavior became blatently obvious to Jim/I!  Jim/I discussed
the need to change, how we would seek out a new provider, pros/cons of
daycare/homecare/live-in, etc. during this 3-week trip.  We didn't worry
much about "how to inform the provider" until AFTER we found a new provider.
We were so pleased with our "new" choice and so disappointed with our current
provider, that it was fairly easy to tell her that "we felt it was time to
move Juli from home care to a learning center environment ... we needed the
hours flexibility and we felt it was time to get Juli into a more structured,
activity-minded environment".  The provider was disappointed, but she knew
things were on a downward slide.

As for FUNdamentals, friends of ours RAVE about it.  Both their son and
daughter attend this center (part-time) -- they and the kids just love it.
I can give you their names/phone number (offline), if you wish.

Good luck ... 

Dottie

I'm another person who just recently took my 2 1/2 year old out of a home day
care situation at my friend Karen's house.  For two years the situation was 
great, in fact she watched only my daughter and her own daughter (who is 4 
months older than mine) 3 days/week for the first year.  The second year she 
took three more children (about 1 every 4 months) and she seemed to gradually 
lose control and enthusiasm.  Her house was trashed because she let the kids run
wild (primarily the 2 4 year old boys).  Karen is very easygoing (bordering on
lazy) and only took the additional kids because she needed the money. But my 
daughter was still happy and couldn't wait to get there in the morning.

In January, after shutting down for two weeks over the holidays, my daughter 
suddenly didn't want to go back.  This was a first!  The situation deteriorated
over the next 2 months.  I tried to ignore the dirty house, television on all 
the time, junk food and her daughter's bad behavior but I removed my daughter
once her 45 lb daughter scratched and gauged my 25 lb daughter on the face
(twice!). My husband and I had long talks with Karen separately about our 
daughter's safety but the situation did not improve even though one of the 
other children left. Karen felt terrible about our daughter getting hurt but 
she isn't able to control her own daughter's behavior.  I just found out she's
pregnant and quitting daycare in June.
    
We parted friends and put our daughter in a home daycare center after checking 
out several other home daycare situations.  We believe she needs a more
structured and stimulating environment. 

After a 5 week wait yesterday she started at the new center. Leaving her her
is torture because she screams that she doesn't want me to leave.  She stopped 
crying about 2 minutes after I left yesterday (I listened at the door) and my 
husband said she was having a wonderful time and didn't want to go home with 
him yesterday. When she first got up this morning she was dying to go back but 
by breakfast she was whining she didn't want to go. Is this normal?  How long 
should it take her to adjust?   
 
/Sheila

    Sheila - my son is almost 5 and hates to go every morning, but also
    tells me I came too early at 5:15!  I finally figured out his problem -
    he doesn't want to leave his home.  He would rather stay home and stay
    in bed until he's ready to get up on his terms.  Sometimes it's a
    struggle, but if their day is going rather well, don't feel guilty. 
    Kids need to understand that they have responsibilites, too.  Your
    responsibility is to go to work (there are days you don't want to be
    here, right) and theirs is to go to daycare.  Many days Ryan will say
    he doesn't want to go to school today - my reply is hey, I don't want
    to go to work today either, but we both have to do this!  
    
    Don't let guilt ruin your day - sounds like she is just testing
    your/her boundaries to see what she can get away with.
    
    -sandy
    

 >  I finally figured out his problem -
 >  he doesn't want to leave his home.  He would rather stay home and stay
 >  in bed until he's ready to get up on his terms.  Sometimes it's a
 >  struggle, but if their day is going rather well, don't feel guilty. 
 >  Kids need to understand that they have responsibilites, too.  

Sandy -

Thanks for the good advice, I'm feeling much better about everything.  After 
6 weeks of worrying about her at daycare you start losing your perspective. 
I guess kids want to do things when THEY feel like it... the old control issue. 
This morning Kate was mad because I interrupted her game with blocks not because
she had to go to daycare.  Once she was in the car she was fine.

I picked her up yesterday and she didn't want to go home because she was having 
such a good time!  In the two short days she's been there, she's been SO much 
happier in the evenings (and even the mornings).   

Sheila