Conference moira::parenting_v3

Cheryl,

I think that you two probably know your children pretty well, and know whether
they are prone to not tell the truth.  Go with your instincts.

As far as leaving your children at home.. my belief is that children will
basically do what is expected of them.  In other words if you have doubts about
how they will behave, they will probably fulfill your expectations.  If they
realize that you fully expect them to behave in a certain way, they will do
so.

I'll probably get attacked on this one, and it took a couple of years to
convince me that it is _basically_ true.  If you subscribe to this belief then
you have your answer - but BOTH you and your husband must have sincere,
positive expectations of your children.

FWIW,
Kristen

In general terms, we work on the scheme of responsibility and natural
results for actions.  Oh that we didn't have to chase them and lay
punishments on them, but things do not always run smoothly.

Anyway, I think you've got two problems here and your unkind neighbour
has done a good job of putting a dark cloud over the issues at hand,
thus causing you to inter-mix the two things and distrust your own
judgement of your own children.

The first is the neighbour and the broken lamp.  She's obviously angry
and has had her trust in children shattered at some point, hence her
comments.  That is her problem though.  She has to prove that your
children broke it ... it is not enough to insinuate that they did by
just saying they were children.  It is sad that she cannot trust children
to tell the truth.

Next is your own children.  You have trusted them up until now and have
had no reason to distrust them in the past, so why start now ?

You have to give them some responsibility and see how they handle it.  If
they let you down, then they have to suffer the natural consequences.  It
is up to you to lay down what you consider natural consequences for at
least some of the things that you can think of in terms of misbehaviour.
Other than that you have to 'wing it', and adjust the responsisbities 
you give them in terms of how they handle it.

You know your children.  Don't let this neighbour influence you.

Stuart

I absolutely agree with the living up to expectations statement.  But I also 
think that sometimes children (and adults) don't.  I think that the 
consequences of committing some offense and lying about it, either actively or 
by concealment, should be more severe than the consequences of committing the 
offense.  

And children should understand that a "natural consequence" of lying is that 
you lose trust.  That may be difficult, even impossible, to regain.

As Stuart says, that's probably what happened to the base noter's neighbor, 
and she's chosen to generalize it to all children.  

Clay 

    
	I called the woman back and transmitted this information.  
    	She said, "And you BELIEVE them?".  I answered that of course I 
    	           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    	believed them and I didn't see why I shouldn't unless she had some 
    	evidence to the contrary.  She then came up with the argument that 
    	it must be them because the other children said they hadn't done it 
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    	and that she had seen them playing ball and that was the most
	logical explanation.  And anyway, one really couldn't believe children.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    	Hmmm, sounds to me like self serving contradiction. Children are only
    	telling the truth when it fits her agenda ?

RE .3

>>And children should understand that a "natural consequence" of lying is that 
>>you lose trust.  That may be difficult, even impossible, to regain.

Thanks for your thoughts so far.  I also found the above sentence to be 
particularly interesting with regards to my older boy (Dirk) who is very very
honest (absolutely, this is not just Mommy speaking) in that it applies in
other aspects of their life.

Dirk had some really bad school experiences which caused him to lose confidence
in what he does.  The pschycologist is helping him on this but his grades in
certain areas are really low.  He has discovered that even when he does well
on something, he might get a lower mark than is fair because of the preconceived
opinion his teacher has of him.  We're all working on this.

By the way, I don't trust my children less because of my neighbor.  I DO trust
them and feel they would come to me if they did do something like this.  But
I am saddened that she behaved like this because we have had a good relationship
in the past and she effectively put me in the situation of choosing between
ruining that relationship and defending my children's honesty.  But my kids
are more important to me than that.

The good thing was that my kids saw that I would stand by them when they are
falsely accused of something.  I think that is important also.

Cheryl

Cheryl,

>By the way, I don't trust my children less because of my neighbor.  I DO trust
>them and feel they would come to me if they did do something like this.  But
>I am saddened that she behaved like this because we have had a good relationship
>in the past and she effectively put me in the situation of choosing between
>ruining that relationship and defending my children's honesty.  But my kids
>are more important to me than that.
>
I think that if your neighbour understands that then she should get over
it in time.  It is a shame that she has little trust in children.

>The good thing was that my kids saw that I would stand by them when they are
>falsely accused of something.  I think that is important also.

Indeed that is good.

Stuart