Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Yes.  I've read as much as a year.
    
    Mine started about 9 months after Steven was born.
    
    --bonnie

    You could also look in Parenting_V2, #538. 
    
    I extracted my reply to that string to include here.  I notice
    that I'm wrong about when my PPD started -- it was only about 8
    weeks after the births.  That's a symptom of PPD, your brain
    doesn't function correctly.  I look over journals I kept during
    that time, and I read about events I don't even remember and
    feelings I can't remember having.  It's a very strange and scary
    experience even now.
    
    "Several months" would be at a guess about 17 months of serious
    problems and another 2-3 years of not quite all there-ness.
    
    --bonnie
    
       <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES3:[NOTES$LIBRARY_3OF5]PARENTING_V2.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Parenting >-
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Note 538.3                    Postpartum Depression                       3 of 6
DOODAH::RANDALL "Bonnie Randall Schutzman"           32 lines  18-JUL-1988 14:23
                      -< they said it would go away.... >-
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    I had it real bad after both kids -- starting about eight weeks
    after the birth each time (a little later than the usual) and
    lasting several months.  It was worse the second time and lasted
    longer.  Both times I felt occasionally suicidal.
    
    I had a different doctor for each birth; neither warned me
    about PPD, though after what I went through the first time,
    the second time wasn't really a surprise.  Neither doctor was
    much help afterwards, either.  They just told me it would go
    away "after a bit".  I suppose it was partly my fault for not
    making clear that I was in a lot worse shape than just crying
    for no reason -- I couldn't even function rationally at erratic
    intervals.  
    
    My regular doctor, a GP, was more help, partly because he knew
    my normal temprement and could tell I wasn't normal.  He told
    me I wasn't getting enough rest, wasn't eating right, and wasn't
    getting enough exercise -- basically, when there was so much
    to cope with, I'd quit taking care of myself.  He had me schedule
    more time to take care of myself, and that helped.
    
    I think going back to work right after Steven was born helped get
    me through.  I had something outside myself to worry about, and
    the rewards of my job (which I enjoy very much) helped me feel
    better about myself.  Plus I could talk to somebody besides my
    mother and a baby who seemed to cry no matter how hard I tried to
    take care of her.
    
    I don't know that I have any advice, other than to call me if you
    need someone to talk to -- I survived it and you will, too. 
    
    --bonnie
    

    I had a mild case of PPD. The first week I was home from the hospital
    I was suffering from a Spinal Headache.(those of you who have had'em
    know what I mean). I was crying all week long because of the pain and
    beause I felt that my newborn daughter needed me and I couldn't get up
    off my back to care for her. Everytime I lifted my head it would throb
    to the extreme and I'd feel nauseas. My husband stuck by me and said 
    "Don't worry, Danielle doesn't realize your not with her every
    minuete", but I felt she did. 5 Days after delivery I couldn't take the
    pain anymore, so I went to the hospital to have the headache taken care
    of. My husband and I were gone for 4 hrs. I couldn't get over the fact
    that I left her with her grandma 5 days after she was born for 4 hrs!!
    I cried the whole time I was gone. After the first week or two, I cried
    everyday for a few minuetes, I'd laugh at the same time because I didn't 
    know why I was crying!! (talk about weird).
    
    Those days came and went, and I haven't experienced anything like it
    since.
    
    Sandy

    I had PPD for about 6 months on and off.  The day after we brought
    Stephen home from the hospital, I came down with the flu.  I was so sick
    and so weak, all I could do was sleep for an entire week.  I felt so
    bad because I had to depend on my husband and my mom to take care of
    both of us.  My husband was unemployed at the time, and I felt twice as
    bad having him stay home with us, when I knew he wanted to be out
    looking for work. (although he never said a word about it to me) All I did
    was cry and feel very depressed, although I think the fact that we were 
    broke, had a newborn and my husband didn't have a job didn't help.  
    
    Anyway, I would get depressed and cry from time to time.  I just had to
    take things day by day.  Things did get better, but it happened very
    slowly.   That was just about 1 year ago, now things have turned around
    100%.  Just remember:  This too shall pass.
    
    Kathy
    

    I had a bad toothache (requiring root canal) starting the day before I
    gave birth.  Luckily I didn't go through labor or it would have been
    impossibly painful.  Two days after birth, I suffered a horrible bout
    of postpartum.  The toothache, and loss of appetite certainly
    contributed to it.  I had about 10 hours of sheer hysteria -
    hyperventilating, crying - no way I could get it under control. 
    Hopefully I won't go through that if I have another baby.   The shakes
    continued for several days every time I sat in the dentist chair, and I
    had some hyperventilation on and off.  Bad news.  At least the
    postpartum hysteria ended quickly.  Despite the toothache (not diagnosed
    for 6 weeks) I recovered pretty well.  Wouldn't wish that on anybody.
    
    Laura

    The TV show 20/20 did an excellent session on PPD just last week. I saw
    it and was glued to it because I suffered fairly severe PPD (severe
    enough to not have another baby). This show emphasized how common
    PPD is and how rarely it is diagnosed. It was also VERY encouraging to
    mothers to seek help. There are support groups and if you need it,
    drugs. When I suffered from PPD 3 years ago there wasn't much help
    around.
    
    Please take a look at parenting V1 and Parenting V2 notes on PPD. 
    I found both notes
    to be very helpful. I also highly recommend "The New Mothers Syndrome."
    I'd be happy to lend you my copy of the book. If was a life-saver!!
    
    Gale

    I suffered PPD the month prior returning to work.  Jackie was about 
    3 months old.  I had no idea of what I went through until *months* 
    later.  My first crying bout came when I saw a receipt of a gift my
    husband gave me... I don't exactly like it and when I saw the recipt
    I burst into tears becasue I think he paid way too much for it.  My
    second bout of crying came the week before returning to work.  I didn't
    want to go (does anyone blame me?).  It was labor day week and I wanted
    my husband to take some time off so we could spend time together as a
    family before my going back to work.   He was extrememly busy and had
    trouble getting the time.  I ended up on the phone with my mother with
    these huge crocodile tears coming down my face accusing my husband of
    putting work ahead of his family.  Anyway, everything turned out ok and
    when I went back to work on that Monday, I was fine.  Crying really did
    help me in this case.  I think I'm also going through a bit of PPD
    again now (Jackie is now 14 1/2 months).  She's getting so big and 
    a little agressive and I feel if I were home with her, she'd be more
    passive than pushy.  Who knows.  
    
    Mary

    
    I suffered from PPD 2 weeks after I had Rebecca.  I was also suffering
    from a Hiatis Hernia which was causing me sever pain in my stomach.
    I would stand in the shower because that was the only thing that
    helped, I would stand there and cry and I would feel like I wasn't
    capable of taken care of my daughter.  My husband felt so bad for
    me.  He tried to say things to me to make me feel better but I would
    cry even more.  It lasted for about 1 month before I started feeling
    good again.  Now I am back to work and feeling like a crumb because
    I leave Rebecca and she is only 4 months old.
    
    Kim
    
    

    A couple of crying bouts within 6-8 weeks of the birth aren't
    usually considered postpartum depression.  That's "just" the "baby
    blues" With severe postpartum depression you can't even cry. 
    
    I hesitate to say "just" because it's such a painful thing to go
    through, but compared to long-term, serious postpartum depression,
    it's not much. 
    
    At one point I considered driving the car into a bridge abutment
    at 75 mph to put us both out of our misery, I was such a lousy
    mother and I could already tell I was ruining his life by being a
    lousy mother and by being depressed and I had no right to feel
    this way when I had everything and that just proved what a
    worthless person I was.  I don't really remember the feeling now
    but I remember coming up on the overpass at exit 6 after I dropped
    Steven off at the sitter, and thinking how that would end it all. 
    How . . . comfortable the concrete looked.  Peaceful.
    
    I didn't, obviously. 
    
    But don't take PPD lightly.  Yes, it will pass, but don't think
    it's only a few bouts of hysterical tears.  It might be.  But if
    you're starting to think you're a bad person because you can't
    take care of your child, and it's going on for more than a few
    days, go see your doctor.  There's medication they can give you. 
    There are support groups.  There are a lot of things that help. 
    And the consequences of not getting help can be very serious
    indeed.
    
    --bonnie

    Call someone who has REALLY been through it before. Talk to them. 
    It'll make you feel so much better to know you're not alone.
    And ignore all those that say they had PPD and you know they know
    nothing about how it feels. (As someone said here, the baby blues is
    not post partum depression.)
    
    Try to get some rest, don't have any caffeine or alcohol and try to get
    some exercise. You need to give your body a boost into getting back on
    track. Those hormones can be tough on you, but you can beat 'em!
    
    And yes, seems to me I read that PPD can start up to 3 years 
    after the baby is born!
    
    Gale
    

    
    >>    And yes, seems to me I read that PPD can start up to 3 years 
    >>after the baby is born!
      
    Wow!
    
    Being uneducated about PPD, my question is has anyone in the medical
    community done any serious research on the subject? Are we just 
    suffering from crazy hormones? Why would it appear so long after the
    birth? 
    
    Monica

            <<< Note 1081.11 by KAOFS::M_FETT "alias Mrs.Barney" >>>
                                  -< causes? >-

	RE: .-1    
    
>    Being uneducated about PPD, my question is has anyone in the medical
>    community done any serious research on the subject? Are we just 
>    suffering from crazy hormones? Why would it appear so long after the
>    birth? 
    

	One answer is: Not enough research is done about any women's
health care issues.  We don't just get less than half of the research,
we get less than 5%.  Issues like the causes of miscarriage, and PPD
and PMS are of little interest to the medical establishment.  Read 
"Confessions of a Medical Heretic" to get more inflamed.

	Another answer is: Actually, there is some research that has been
done in several promising directions.  One area that is still fairly
obscure is the link between hypoglycemia, or low-blood sugar, and 
post-partum depression.  Dr. Carlton Frederick has published a number
of books and articles pointing out that the causes and symptoms are
linked.  His recommendation is to cut out white sugar, white flour products,
and caffeine and alcohol, take B vitamin supplements, and eat more protein.

	Adelle Davis gives similar advice on depression in her several books 
on nutrition and health.  While hormones are involved in PPD, they are
basically a reflection of stresses on one's metabolism.  Pregnancy is
certainly a normal, if stressful, occurrence in the organism.  By depleting
the essential amino acids and enzymes, we set up a demand for replenishment
that brings hormonal messengers and stored energy out.  If we don't respond,
we risk anxiety, headaches, infection, and even adrenal exhaustion.  

	Having responded to your question about research, I would like to
say that I too personally battled with post-partum depression.  The first 
time, I could not believe how tired and cross I was, and felt guilty when 
I couldn't take another minute of demands from a hungry baby and wanted 
to toss him through the window.  After getting advice from La Leche and 
building up my energy with brewer's yeast drinks and extra calcium, I was 
amazed at the effect on my moods.  I am convinced that low-blood sugar 
is a big part of the mysterious problem of why it comes and goes and 
hits different people at different times, but especially post-partum women.  

	I could also have used more support from my partner, who just
went back to work.  I was angry and resentful, and didn't admit that.
After all, doesn't it seem like one should be happy?  I think that effect 
is also a part of the picture, though the cause could still be low energy.
I am not a "believer" in health food per se, but I am amazed at how obscure
some of the common sense aspects of nutrition are in our culture.  I have
experimented with the advice I gave with satisfactory results, so I offer
to anyone who sees some value in it.

    re: .12
    
    And for those who never suffered from this, when someone says she
    wanted to throw the baby out the window, it's quite possible that
    she's not humorously exaggerating.  Women suffering from severe
    postpartum depression have sometimes pitched babies out of
    windows.
    
    Sometimes you do get so frustrated and disconnected that you want
    to do anything you can to get this squirming noise to shut up. 
    You feel so totally helpless -- won't anything you do help?  You
    feel stupid, inadequate, incompetent --
    
    If you find yourself feeling this way, put the baby in the crib --
    it will be perfectly safe there for a while -- and go get help. 
    Right away.  Call your spouse, a neighbor, me, your doctor, your
    religious counsellor, a crisis hotline.  Somebody.  
    
    The things that I found helped me the most were:  lots of fresh
    water, sleep, cutting back on my social/work/housework activities
    while increasing light exercise (walking is excellent because it
    gets you out of the house, too, and eating a very high protien
    and calcium diet.  Some days I'd have nothing but meat and/or
    cheese for lunch and dinner.  I don't know whether any of these
    have any scientific standing but they helped me.
    
    --bonnie

    First just let me say I consider myself lucky not having had PPD to any
    great extent, at least with AJ.  I guess if I had PPD it was masked by
    the many extraordinary needs he had with his colostomy care, plus
    living with my inlaws and looking to buy a home gave me much needed
    support and kept me busy.
    
    I have question as far as when does PPD start.  Would you see it after
    a miscarriage, or would it not kick in unless you had carried for
    several months?
    
    Just curious.
    Lyn

    My step brother's wife had a severe case of PPD.  It was very scary.
    She would just up and leave the 3 day old baby in the house by herself
    and go out driving.  She would talk to people in the street and start
    fights.  She really had no idea what she was doing and we had no idea
    what she would do next.  We were really afraid she would hurt the baby.
    
    Fortunately, it all passed after about 2-3 months, and she felt
    terrible afterwards.  She was so horrible, I don't think I could ever
    think of her the same as she was before the baby again.  
    
    Also, when she took the baby in for a 7 day checkup the pediatrician
    reported her to the DSS.  She was really out of her mind.  I had no
    idea PPD could be so awful!

    re: .15
    
    And didn't anybody suggest she get medical treatment??????
    
    re: .14
    
    Lyn, yes, I have heard of PPD after miscarriages, though the only
    cases I personally know of were 5- to 6- month miscarriages.
    
    --bonnie

    Re. 16
    
    We tried everything to get her to a doctor but she would NOT go!  She
    was really out of her mind.  We even tried to commit her but couldn't
    manage that.  It was really a nightmare.  I'm glad it is over.
    
    Thanks for the concern.
    
    Karin

    re: .17
    
    That's pretty awful for all of you.
    
    I hope you can find it in you to forget waht happened, because she
    was not in control of herself at that time. 
    
    When you've got this kind of depression, first you don't percieve
    things correctly.  Then you don't process correctly what you do
    perceive.  And then what you do process doesn't register.  Your
    behavior becomes weird, inconsistent, dangerous to yourself or to
    others.  I think I'm glad that major portions of what I went
    through simply didn't register.  I don't have any memory of it,
    and nobody reminds me of it, so I don't have to go through the
    guilt of knowing how irrational I was.  
    
    Even if it's many years later, counselling would probably still
    help her deal with that guilt and learn to trust her emotions
    again.  She didn't do anything wrong, it was a medical condition
    that she couldn't do anything about, but it takes a long time to
    learn to deal with something like that at the best. 
    
    Perhaps family counselling for everybody would help.
    
    --bonnie

    Hi All,
    
    I wonder if anyone can help me on this ?
    
    I am due on March 28th, and was, a couple of years ago, treated for
    depression, through counselling and optional use of antidepressant
    drugs. I was lucky in that I was able to overcome this in a couple of
    months.
    
    My midwife noted this whilst going through my medical records, and
    suggested that I might like to go through a programme called "Dalton's
    Regime", which is specifically designed to combat post-natal depression
    and is offered to those women like me who may be more susceptible to
    it.
    
    What the programme consists of is an injection of progesterone for the
    seven days immediately post-partum, and progesterone pessaries for the
    two months following that.
    
    Now, all this sounds like a great idea, I have no desire WHATSOEVER to
    go through post-natal depression, but does anyone out there know if
    there would be any side-effects from the doses of progesterone ? Better
    still, has anyone personal experience of a programme like this?
    
    (Moderator, please feel free to move this if necessary...)
    
    Thanks
    Angela.