Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Trying to make points to people about the use of : bicycle helmets, 
    seat belts, baby car seats, non-use of cigarettes, etc. is usually 
    pretty useless.  The importance of these things is fairly obvious,
    but you can rarely change opinions about these things even in 
    the face of glaring statistics. First hand evidence is ususally
    required... like seeing dead bodies in the road. Please excuse my 
    directness. 
    
    

    
    Well, it does make a difference for the reason I hoped to use the stats.
    
    I understand your point, but the way I was going to use the "facts" was
    in a presentation type setting vs changing someones opinion.
    
     
    
    

    I don't have the stats (though the maternity or pedi ward of your local
    hosp. probably would), but I do know that the number one cause of death
    in children is from not being buckled up in car accidents. I think I
    heard that on T.V.
    
    Patty ... whose kids won't ride UNLESS they're buckled up!
    

    I don't have the figures either...but the hospital where I had both of
    my boys at would not let you leave the hospital unless you had a car
    seat in the car.  
    
    When I had my youngest son last June, the nurse came down to the car
    with us.  She saw the car seat was turned the wrong way, and she would
    not give me the baby until my husband turned the seat the correct way. 
    The name of the hospital is Holy Cross in Silver Spring, Maryland.
    
    As the previous noter stated...if you called the hospital, I'm sure
    they would give you the figures that you are looking for.
    
    Hope it helps!!
    
    Lillian

    
    The hospitals in Nashua, N.H. won't let you leave the hospital without
    a car seat.

    
    
    On the helpful side (vs. my .1 reply) , often the safety/accident
    charts given in the newspapaer contain a little line as to where 
    the statistics come from. Example: USA Today had an article on helmet 
    laws about three weeks ago. If you look at their diagrams, they 
    publish the source for their information in small print. Further, 
    insurance companies must get statistics from somewhere.... there must
    be a group that gleans information from police accident reports.
    If you have a local library, especially a college library where 
    you might be able to do subject lookups electronically, you could search 
    on insurance, accidents, seat belts, car seats, etc.  Good luck. 
    
     

     
    	Re -1
    >If you have a local library, especially a college library where 
    >you might be able to do subject lookups electronically, you could search 
    >on insurance, accidents, seat belts, car seats, etc.  Good luck. 
    
    	Better yet, get the librarian to do it for you, it's what they're
    good at!
    
    		Ian G.

    thanks for all the ideas.
    
    My biggest pet peeve is seeing "caring" parents driving around without
    having their child(ren) properly buckled in.  I just seem to be seeing
    the occurance more and more rather than less and less.  I'm also not
    talking about "older" ages of like 5 -> I've been seeing the babies on
    the laps, and the 1-2 year range w/no carseat.
    
    It just boggles my mind, I remember my daughter was visiting w/gram and
    Pop Pop one saturday.  I was out shopping w/my mom and Pop-Pop decided
    to go pick up the mail down the condo development road (not even 1/2 mile)
    and just buckled her in w/no carseat (recent/katie's 3)  Alot of people
    would say, what's the big deal, just down the road.  I just feel it's
    an important rule to live by, and it also sets a standard practice for
    the child.
    
    But anyways.........we all know this will continue, I should just get
    over the peave.  I just wish officials would enforce it better, and
    possibly give higher fines.
    
    Karen 

    
    
    My husband's a paramedic and he gets so angry at people not using
    car seats for children.  When he arrives at a scene and sees the
    parent crying and screaming over their bloody child because he was
    thrown through the windshield (sorry to be so graphic), he just
    has no sympathy for the parent.  The parent is usually wearing the
    seatbelt and is 'holding' on to the child.  
    
    Car accidents are the number one cause of death in children.
    Obviously, if they didn't save lives it wouldn't be the law!
    
    Kristen

    I happened to be reading my Consumer Reports book on baby products last
    night and I tried to get some data there. (This book was from the
    libary and was published in 1984...wished I'd checked that before I
    checked it out) Anyway, it referenced Department of Transporation 
    statistics on carseats. (It said 158 lives were saved in 1984...this
    seemed like it was low to me. I would have suspected something which
    was an order of magnitude or two greater than that. Could it be a
    typo.?) It also told of the dangers of not using a carseat (i.e. 
    equivalent force/velocity etc. of an unrestrained child in an
    accident, etc.) I would suggest that you try to get more recent data 
    from the DOT.
    
    I'd call the Federal Information Center in Boston (617-565-8121). If
    you have no luck with this, call the Citizen Information Services 
    office in Mass at 1-800-392-6090. This information/referral service
    is provided by the Mass. Secretary of State's (Michael Connolly?)
    office. If you're not in Mass., you might try this in your own state. 
    I found these numbers in the White Pages in the front of my phonebook.
    
    Hope this helps.
     

    This is a bit off the topic, but you may be interested:
    
    On vacation, we met by chance a man who is working with the auto
    manufacturers (not sure who he works for) on offering child seats as a
    standard option.  He was very interested when he saw us buckling in
    Ilona and asked us what's important to us in a carseat.
    
    We told him that for babies, the seat should be removal with a carrying
    bar.  What's more important, we said they should be easy to clean due
    to inevitable "accidents" and spills.  He hadn't even thought about
    this before!  We said there is the perception among some people that it
    is difficult or slow to extract a child after a collision, and that the
    advertising should stress that it is in fact easy to do.  We wished him
    lots of luck and copious encouragement.  Smiles all around. (Except
    poor Ilona who was facing another long stretch cooped up.)
    
    By the way, the childseat will fold back into the regular seat when you
    don't need it.  Pretty nifty!  It's about time.
    
    I hope that when they are a standard option, and part of the car just
    like adult seatbelts, that more people will use them.   
    
    Laura

    re: .11
    
    I saw a newspaper article about this -- Chrysler is working on
    making it a standard option on their minivans.  I assume the other
    carmakers are not far behind.
    
    I never but never used the "removable" part and got real annoyed
    at having to choose among mostly "removable" carriers, but that
    only goes to show how different people's tastes are . . . the
    cleaning is a definite factor.  
    
    --bonnie

    to the basenoter, the need for figures isn't really necessary.  Every
    state in the US has a child seatbelt law!  Bottom line EVERY CHILD MUST
    be in a seatbelt or carseat (depending on age).
    
    If you need stats and statistics contact either the US Dept of
    Transportation, or the National Safety Council.
    
    Sorry, this IS a HOT Button for me, as mother and EMT/Rescue squad
    member!
    
    Lyn

    <.1 - Forget my request for stats. I realize they shouldn't be
    necessary, but for some reason there are intelligent (?) people out
    there that ignore the law.
    
    Thanks for all the advise from everyone.
    
    Let me ask what is the law for the CarSeat Law, I've heard two
    different stories, up till a child is 4 or up to age 5?  
    
    I'm going to need to have a discussion with the director at the daycare
    myself.  My daugher went on a field trip yesterday to a local pond near
    the school.  It's probably only about 10 minutes from the school. 
    We left the booster seat for the trip, when my husband picked up Katie
    she told him they just buckled her in vs using the booster.  I'm sorry
    but going just down the road doesn't mean being less cautious.  My
    husband thought if the law on the carseat is 4 that may be why they did
    it.  Katie will be 4 in a couple weeks.
    
    Even if the law for the carseat is 4, I will probably continue using
    the booster with my car because my rear seatbelts are the old
    traditional lap type without the shoulder harness.  Do I understand
    correctly that only using the lap type is dangerous for young children?
    
    K
    

    The seatbelt/carseat laws differ from state to state.  You're in
    Massachusetts, aren't you?  Here's the text from the MA law :
    
    	No child five years old or less shall ride as a passenger in a
    motor vehicle on any way unless said child is wearing a safety belt
    which is properly adjusted and fastened or unless such child is
    properly fastened and secured by a child passenger restraint as defined
    in section one.
        No child who is older than five years of age but not older than
    twelve years of age shall ride as a passenger in a motor vehicle on any
    way unless said child is wearing a safety belt which is properly
    adjusted and fastened.
    
    After that there is a set of exclusions for cars without seatbelts,
    taxis, cars where all seatbelts are in use, children who are physically
    unable to wear seatbelts.
    
    As far as the lap belt alone, I've heard that it is more dangerous than
    a lap/shoulder combination, but safer than nothing.  We're planning on
    keeping Brian (he's 4 now) in his booster seat until he can wear the
    lap/shoulder belt correctly.
    
                                                     Tracy

Re. a few back...

I thought Volvo had a car on the market for some time with a built in child
seat.

/Dave.

    And to dig out the rules about car seats....
    
    Usually up to 18 pounds in an infant seat facing backwards; up to 40
    pounds in a toddler seat facing forwards; up to 4 or 5 in a booster
    seat.  These rules are generally determined by the seat makers and have
    been generally adopted by the standards organisations and states /
    provinces / countries around the world. The hitch is that they are
    based on averages and are not really suited for most kids.
    
    In reality, there is a height restriction that most kids below the
    50th centile (weight) reach before they hit the seat's weight limit.
    So, if your child hit's the following height limits before the weight
    limits, then progress to the next seat category regardless of the
    particular state / provincial law.  I cannot imagine a policeman
    being quite so pedantic (or maybe I can ...... )
    
    In general, a child should be turned around facing forwards if the
    legs are cramped in the rear facing position and providing the infant
    can hold its head up steadily without problem.  The infant seat should
    be discarded for the toddler seat when the bulge at the back of the
    cranium is within 1/2" (1 cm) of the top of the seat shell or padding
    whichever is lower.  Similarly the toddler seat should be replaced
    with a booster seat at the same height limit.  The booster seat should
    be discarded when the cranium bulge is no longer protected by the seat
    back.
    
    I have no idea how many lives would be saved, but there have been
    stories of children saved by car seats in earlier incantations of this
    notes file.
    
    In my mind anyway, it's a small price to pay for peace of mind.
    
    Stuart