Conference moira::parenting_v3

Gail:

We were VERY LUCKY to adopt "our" daughter in September, 1989 at 5 days of
age.  She is multi-cultural (we can check each and every race box on
the census bureau's form!).  It was one immense roller-coaster ride, but like
childbirth, you forget the pain when they place your baby or child in
your arms ... it's all worth it!!

Now, let me see if I remember your questions ...

I believe any adoption restrictions will be on a country-by-country basis.
(e.g. Romania restrictions differ from Cambodia, which differs from Peru ...).
I'm not sure what (if anything) you need from a US adoption agency to
pursue an out-of-country adoption.

First off, you need to find out "which" countries are allowing American
placements.  Many countries close and reopen their doors on a regular
bssis.

So cost and requirements vary by country ... AS DO residency requirements!
Nick Capello (ISBU, Marlboro) and his wife were very surprised when they
picked up their newborn son in South America, only to find out they had
to stay there for a minimum of two weeks!!! and the paperwork was over-
whelming (and yes!, they DID use a U.S. adoption agency!).

MACKAY (an avid PARENTING noter) adopted a little girl from Romania.
A friend of my Mom's just got two little ones out of Cambodia.
Nick and Jan Capello got two little tykes out of Peru.

The last I heard, an "average" (if such a thing even exists!!!!) adoption
here in the states of a NEWBORN baby costs $10-20K and takes 2-6 years
(so 10 years seemed high to me, Gail).

You might want to seek out some DECies and friends who have already
done outside-US adoptions (verifying that that particular country is
"open" today) and "look into" international adoption agencies (I know
there is one in Waltham, MA).

There's lots and lots of various avenues, Gail ... and a lot of it is
plain luck! (being in the right spot at the right time).

For Jim/I, we could not have done it without Nick and Jan Capello's
assistance and support, as well as ODS (Open Door Society -- membership
is only $15/year!) ... even though Juli came to us external to Nick/Jan
and ODS ... their wealth of information, experience, assistance and many
a shoulder to cry on was invaluable to us.

I'm here ... write me, call me ... I know very little about outside-US
adoptions, but I can give you a ton of information on internal-US
adoptions!!!!

Good luck ... and a big hug!
Dottie

See note 7.1 for information on the adoption notesfile.  Most of the noters
there are adoptees rather than adoptive parents (or bio-parents), but there
is some information there for potential adoptive parents.

    Gail,
    
    As Dottie indicated, Adoption costs, child availability and
    requirements vary by Licenced agency and by country (when going outside
    the U.S.). I don't have all the information at the tips of my fingers,
    but if you want to give me a call, I can share some of Jan's and my
    experiences. Also, Jan really enjoys talking with perspective adoptive
    parents....I am sure she would welcome a call from you if you would
    like to get her perspective.
    
    Just a little background, my children are all adopted:
    	Tony , 14, was born in Colombia S.A.
    	Elena, 10, was born in San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
    	Paul, 8 and Blanca, 6, were born in Ecuador S.A.
    
    Our most recent experience is with adopting Paul and Blanca who are
    siblings by birth who came to our family on September 12, 1989 (seems 
    like we were having an adoption race with Dottie and Jim), they were 
    "re-adopted" in the U.S. for naturalization purposes on May 29, 1990
    and we are currently in the naturalization process.
    
    Call if I can help.
    
    	Nick Cappello
    

Remember, too, that there are non-white infants here in the United States
who need adopting.  Typically, adopting them can go much faster and cost
much less.  Assuming you and your spouse are both white, some states/agencies
may not allow you to adopt a non-white child, but it is definately worth
considering.

     Carol

Carol made a very interesting point ...

At a recent ODS Conference (May, 1991), Jim/I realized that adoption agencies
favor placing racial and mixed-racial children WITH RACIAL PARENTS
(they will first place a black baby with black parents, then a black baby
with hispanic parents, then a black baby with a white and black parent
... and then, if all else fails!, they will place a black or mixed-race
baby with two WHITE PARENTS!  There are many, many more non-white babies
and mixed-racial babies in the process than all-white babies.

And the agencies were all equally "washed up" with their justifications!

I guess it's just one of those things that you are FORCED to accept!

Jim/I were able to get Juli through a semi-identified adoption (mother
targeted US ... our agency did NOT CHOOSE US!).  "Our" agency did
all the necessary paperwork (and bungled it up horribly!!!!), but Juli's
adoption was FINALLY FINALIZED and "most issues" have worked themselves
out.

We have not encountered any racial problems with either of our families.
Juli has been accepted, loved and treated like any other family member
... if anything, perhaps a little "more special".  I have had some
strange looks from "the public" ... and a few "words didn't quite come
out right comments"  (eg.  "you must look like Daddy, as you sure don't
look like Mommy!  -- Both Jim/I are "fair, light, blue-eyed ... Juli's
mixed, black eyes, brown/red hair).    Be sweet anyways and people
don't know which way to turn!!!

Dottie

PS:  Sorry if I misused any words to get my point across ... end of the
     day and hasn't been one of my better weeks!

    When we adopted years ago, Dec paid 80% of the fees for an
    American agency up to a maximum of $2,000. Does anyone
    know how this has changed.
    
    In re mixed-racial babies. When we adopted ours (they are in
    their late teens now) we were told that they will place
    mixed kids who look white with white families with no problem.
    Peter has very caucasian features and as a baby was bald and
    fair skinned. As his hair grew in and he got out in the sun
    he darkened up and grew a head of kinky hair. We were later
    told that we'd not have gotten him if they'd known what
    he would look like!
    
    Both of his sisters are very fair. Judi looks completely caucasian
    but I've been told by a Black friend that she has a "black build".
    Jessica is hispanic or italian looking. Light brown skin, deep
    brown eyes and very curly hair.
    
    Bonnie
    
    Bonnie

Bonnie:

Back in September, 1991, our adoption benefit was $2500/per employee -
/per child APPLIED AGAINST ADOPTION-RELATED EXPENSES.

That means:	Juli + Dottie	= $2500
		Juli + Jim	=  2500  =  total: $5,000 (taxable income)

Had Juli been a twin, it would have been:
		Juli + Dottie	= $2500
		Jeff + Dottie	= $2500
		Juli + Jim	= $2500
		Jeff + Jim	= $2500   ...................


Jim/I have blue-eyes and very light complexions -- Juli has brown/red
curly hair, dark brown eyes and olive-like skin  (her father was 100%
Irish, her mother was 50% black, 50% Cherokee Indian).  Chances of US
getting Juli through a traditional adoption agency would be "next to nill"
(at best!).  Thank goodness Juli came to us through a "semi-identified
adoption" (but that doesn't mean we don't have other "issues" to deal
with!).  Juli was born in Massachusetts.

I remember asking Nick Capello (remember, he/Jan's kids are from Peru,
NM and Columbia -- his family could be a United Nations!) ... what Jim/I
might expect when our little multi-cultural sweetie (with white parents)
"blends" with her school mates and Nick said "Dottie, you haven't visited
a school classroom lately, have you?  The little blue-eyed, blonde with
blue-eyed parents IS THE MINORITY! ..."  How nicely put!!!

Although there are many different nationalities at Juli's daycare center,
she is the only one I've seen with black decent ... and we haven't seen
or heard of any issues/problems "yet".  They all get along just fine.

Dottie

OOPS ... that should have been

	"back in September, 1989 ..."
                            ====

Dottie

    Dottie
    
    My kids, as I said, had black fathers and white mothers. They
    are now 18,17,16, and 13. We've had few to no problems over
    the years due to race.
    
    I'd be glad to write to you off line if you have any specific
    questions about our experiences.
    
    Bonnie

    There are several key steps in adopting, that I deduced after the whole
    thing was over.  
    
    1.  Assess your family's readiness for adoption.  In the process,
    decide if wanting a boy is the only important thing and nothing else
    has bearing.  You've already seen notes which talk about the
    'differences' that various families have incorporated.  This is a very
    individual decision.  You may also want to decide the age you want,
    whether getting an infant is important to you. 
    2.  Find an adoption agency that is congenial.  Everyone in
    Massachusetts must have a home study.  The costs on this can vary
    tremendously.   If you've decided to go with foreign adoption,
    obviously you'd like an agency which works with countries in which you
    have interest, or with an agency which finds multi-racial kids, and so
    on.  Just recently, some friends called to ask whether we knew anyone
    who would take a multi-racial little boy which had been offered to
    them.  They already had a multi-racial girl and didn't want another. 
    3.  Having found your agency, then the process begins, of them
    ascertaining that you are good parents.  THe final report is the home
    study.  My agency used the time less to quiz about intimate issues and
    more to educate about adoption and child raising.  I preferred the
    latter.  
    4.  Getting children from different sources and countries varies
    tremendously.  I chose to pursue Romanian adoption as a do-it-yourself
    project and am glad I did.  There weren't any formal programs at that
    time so there was not an option, but now there are.  I've been exposed
    to several through friends and extensive phone counselling.  All seem
    to be on the outer edges of control and communication.  They seem to do
    neither well.  These agencies are filled with good people who may not
    have organization as their strong suits.  Of course, to give them their
    due, the countries they deal with are difficult to communicate with and
    have varied cultures.  Talk to other parents who've used your agency
    choice so that you know what to be prepared for and don't go off any
    deep ends.  Adoption can be very emotional.  After all, this is YOUR
    CHILD!
    5.  Get the child. 
    6.  Put in for adoption benefits.  Remember that Digital will take out
    taxes from the $2500.  You can't put in for the benefit until the child
    is legally adopted, somewhere.  
    7. Good luck!  
    
    My baby, going on big girl, arrived July 13, a year ago.  She's 22
    months now and all caught up on development and charging ahead.  She
    ended up looking like she is our birth child, down to the curly hair,
    which was completely non-evident at 6 months, when we first saw her,
    given the shaven head.  I have the reverse problem that Dottie
    mentioned.  People remark on how alike we look.  I'm not quite sure how
    to handle this as she grows older.  Right now, I'm smiling and nodding. 
    Suggestions on this issue are very welcome.  

Bonnie:

What are your thoughts about opening a NOTE to discuss some of the issues
multi-racial children face (especially if being raised in a NON-multi-racial
family?

The only issues Jim/I faced were:

1)  Telling my folks (who were in their late 60's - and a "product" of an era
    of racism) about their "upcoming" grandchild(ren) ... only to find out
    that it was NOT a problem at all, they were VERY happy and supportive
    and treat Juli just like the other grandkids (maybe a little better
    since she's the runt!) ... and Jim's grandparents (in Utah).

2)  Educating the public (especially people in the grocery store and in
    the Pedi's waiting room!!!!) ... who say things like "Honey, you must
    look like Daddy, as you SURE DON'T look like MOMMY!..."  My cousin
    once said "So, 'what' is she?"  I said "a little girl...".  He said
    "no, like WHAT is she?"  I said "huh?"  He said "well, let's say ...
    she's DEFINATELY NOT Irish!" and I said "Oh, but she is!  Her bio
    daddy is 100% Irish, that's where she gets the red/brown hair from ..."
    (We nearly had to pick him up off the store floor!)  A teenager at
    Church did a similar thing  "so, "what" is she?"  I said the usual
    "huh?"  She said "is she ... you know? ... where does she get those
    black eyes and curly hair from?..."  I said "her mother!"

Juli's only 22 months of age, so we haven't been up against how JULI will
handle "queries"  (I really believe most people are CURIOUS, not MALICOUS
... but their curiosity COULD hurt a little innocent youngster's feelings
... and besides, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ANYWAYS!  Would you love her
more or less if you KNEW her heritage?  (I sure hope not!) 

Not sure how much Bonnie wants to discuss in a PARENTING note, but I know
some of the issues that Jim/I have discussed is schoolmates and "dating".
We were VERY RELIEVED and THRILLED when BOTH our families accepted Juli's
heritage "hands down" ... but I'm not sure this won't become an off/on
issue for Juli as she passes through stages of her life.

Dottie

re .-1
    
>    she's DEFINATELY NOT Irish!" and I said "Oh, but she is!  Her bio
>    daddy is 100% Irish, that's where she gets the red/brown hair from ..."
    
    Of course, in Boston, on St Patricks Day, I have met quite a wide
    selection of Asian, African etc Irishmen....
    
    q :-)
    

    I don't mind discussing things here in parenting, it is just that I
    don't think there is a large interest in the subject, as there aren't
    a lot of transracial adoptions or mixed marriages.
    
    Bonnie

    I'm not part of a mixed marriage, nor have I adopted a transracial
    child, but I am interested.
    
    I think it important to understand the problems, and the parents 
    solutions.  I can learn from them--both how to respond (and not to) to
    seeing a child who looks very different from the parent, and also how
    to respond if someone asks me what I consider an inappropriate question
    about my daughter or one of my nephews.
    
    So keep it coming!
    
    Judy

    Well I don't have anything in particular to start things off
    with, but would be glad to answer any questions.
    
    Bonnie

    I think an appropriate response would be one that's suggested for all
    types of "none of your business questions", such as :
    
    "How kind of you to take an interest."
    
    Susan

    I don't mind explaining about my kids. It helps educate people
    into what families are like.
    
    There was an interesting exchange mentioned in Ann Landers recently
    tho. A woman was in a store with her two children one of which
    was of a different race than her. Some woman came up to her and
    asked 'different fathers?' to which she replied somewhat acerbicly
    'yes, and different mothers too!'...
    
    
    I got a few similar questions when mine were little, and had a wicked
    desire to say 'my husband forgave me' but since most of the awkward
    questions were from well meaning elderly ladies I hadn't the heart.
    
    Bonnie

    I am the eldest of four adopted children.  We are all different
    nationalities and different colours.  We are a normal family, just like
    any other.  We love each other and we fight and argue and support each
    other etc etc!!
    
    We had some lovely comments as we grew up, some hurtful some amusing
    some na�ve.  I would very willing to talk about this if it helps
    anyone, either off-line or here.
    
    Kate

<    I would very willing to talk about this if it helps
<    anyone, either off-line or here.
    
Yes, Kate.  Please share the good and the bad with us.  What memories come
to mind?

    Carol

    Oops - only just seen this!  [I'm often out of the office, so silence
    probably means I haven't seen the note.  Try mail to prompt me if I
    seem slow to respond!]
    
    So many memories - it could take ages to remember and recount them all! 
    I'll try a few in the interim...
    
    At my wedding, a relation said "Doesn't she look like Mary [my adopted
    mother]?  Oh, no she shouldn't [puzzled face] - but she does!"  This
    one made me smile.
    
    Nasty questions at school about our fathers and what Mum had been up
    to.  I was assumed to be a "natural" child as I'm white, obviously the
    black ones were the outsiders!  Being the eldest I stuck up for the
    others.  I don't remember fighting about it [physically I mean] but I
    know my black brother often did when defending himself or our black
    sister.  This was in a very middle-class area where kids did not fight!
    
    Often received compliments about my mother, and how brave she was [I
    always smiled and added "or stupid!"]
    
    Sorry this is brief - I'm rushing to reply so that you have *something*
    to read!  More later - please ask if the above is confused.
    
    Hugs,
    
    Kate

    Kate,
    
    That sounds like my family!
    
    Bonnie