Conference moira::parenting_v3

    No, you are not being unreasonable.  You may want to write a letter to
    the mother explaining things and that the daughter confirmed what you
    had been told by your son.  In the letter you might want to mention
    that you value her friendship and don't want to lose it, but you have
    to do what you think is best for your child.  
    
    For the sitter, there are two alternatives: 1) tell her that perhaps
    you weren't clear in your directions so you are willing to try again if
    she is.  or 2) (and this is probably what I would do) not use her
    again, telling her that you don't feel comfortable leaving your child
    with someone you cannot trust (you should do this ONLY if you are
    positive that you layed out clear instructions).  This will be a
    valuable lesson to her on trust.
    
    IMHO,
    
    Mike

    I don't think that any of your instructions to the sitter were
    unreasonable.  In fact, I think you were lenient in letting her go.  I
    also think the contract was between you and the sitter, and you should
    not have involved her parents (unless the babysitting contract involved
    them, and they claimed some level of responsibility).  This does not
    excuse her mother's behavior - I would have expected her to be
    surprised and genuinely concerned about her daughter's irresponsibility
    and disregard for your wishes and your son's safety.
    
    I agree that it would be appropriate to tell them (in person, phone, or
    in a letter) that you do value and miss their friendship and, although
    you are disappointed in _____________ you realize that they had nothing
    to do with it and should not have been brought into it.
    
    I hope it works out for you.  It's a shame to lose any friends - and a
    double loss when they are also family.
    
    Kristen

    I agree that your restrictions and reactions are reasonable. 
    Since the girl doesn't live at home, there probably wasn't any
    need to bring the parents into it.  
    
    I don't agree with Kirsten's surprise at her mother's behavior. 
    She did overreact, but if it were my daugher, while I would have
    been concerned to determine what really happened, I would also
    take my daughter's side until the facts prove that I'm wrong to do
    so.  I don't think I would have walked out over it, but then I'm a
    more conciliatory person and I would have said things about
    finding out the facts and seeing what my daughter said before
    doing anything more.  
    
    I get the feeling that there's more going on here than just
    resentment over a babysitting incident.  Have there been previous
    conflicts about irresponsibility and childrearing, or unresolved
    tensions around the death you mentioned, or something?  This is
    the kind of thing that happens when everybody is on edge about
    something else.  Were you close before the death you mentioned? 
    Is it possible there are some hidden resentments of the new
    closeness or some incompatibilities you haven't noticed?  I'm
    guessing here at some of the kinds of things that might cause such
    an overreaction on the mother's part. 
    
    --bonnie

    You did not overreact.  The girl behaved irresponsibly, I would not use
    her again because I wouldn't be able to trust her again.
    
    I too feel like there's something else going on here.  Some sort of
    family disagreement over your father's death perhaps?  The one thing
    I've learned over the past few years -- weddings and funerals bring out
    the best and the worst in people.
    
    A phone call to the father/mother might patch things up a bit.  I'd
    remain freindly with the girl, but simply not use her for babysitting. 
    It's funny how some teenagers can be so incredibly responsible, and
    others so irresponsible.
    

    Yes, and sometimes it's the same teenager on different days...
    
    --bonnie
    

I agree entirely with Bonnie in .3.  I definitely don't think that 
your expectations or your reactions to the girl's behavior were
unreasonable.  However, I would think that this was a matter between
you and the girl, and that there was no need to bring her parents into 
it at all -- definitely not before you had confronted her personally.

	-Neil

    I agree with everyone else.  You were not being unreasonable but 
    should not have involved the parents.
    One thing that really bothered me about your base note was that she
    asked your child to lie to you (don't tell your mother).  My ex used to
    do that with our daughter and of course since I taught her that lying
    is WRONG, she'd come home and tell me everything she wasn't supposed
    to tell.  After knowing she wanted your child to lie to you, I wouldn't 
    ask her to sit again.  She can't be trusted.
    
    Marie

    Since you asked, I'll say that you overreacted.
    I agree with your rules, I agree that your rules were broken.
    Where I differ is where you talked with the girls parents.
    the girl doesn't live at home.  You went to the father, that didn't
    work, then you went to the mother.  About that time I can see why the
    mother got out of the setting, I would have.  Exactly what did you 
    expect by telling the parents?  What did you expect them to do,
    punish her?  Think less of their daughter? Beyond that, what was occuring
    [in my opinion] was gossip and defermation of a child in a family
    setting.
    
    I would have simply never asked the girl to babysit again.
    ed
    

    I agree with .8.  Except I might have let the girl know that I was
    not happy with the fact that she didn't obey my wishes/rules the last
    time she sat.  I might ask her again to sit IN MY HOME as long as you
    let her know if she wants the JOB she is to play by your rules.  And
    if she would prefer not to sit that is okay too.  
    
    You are allowing her to be human, learn by her mistakes and not involve
    anyone else.  Also, you are not out of a babysitter which it sound like
    you used to depend on.  -- you would not be cutting off your nose to
    spite your face.
    
    However, it's done and now to resolve the issue amends must be made.  I
    wish you the best of luck.
    
    Mary
    

    I want to add something other than "you shouldn't have involved her
    parents".....You are both parents, and you were both defending your
    children.  My suggestion is to send a letter to the parents letting
    them know that both you and your son miss doing "family things"
    together and in time would like to get together.  And let it go until
    they contact you.  I think they overreacted but there must be
    underlying reasons and this was just the icing on the cake.  I had a
    similar situtation where I babysat my "best" friend's 5 month old
    daughter (while I was 8-9 months pregnant) sometimes until 3:00 in the
    morning.  She in return gave me a "Certificate to Free Babysitting- Any
    time!  Well,  2 months later when I went to "cash it in" (to go to my
    6-week after care check-up, where no babies are allowed) she called me
    1-hour before the appt. to say she was very depressed that day and
    decided not to do it.  I blew up and did not talk to her for a couple
    of weeks, she in turn couldn't figure out why I was so upset and
    refused to speak to me (this went on for about 5 months), finally we
    got together and did not even discuss this issue, let it go, and
    resumed our friendship.  Sometimes when things are boiling up the
    people need a break.  In the meantime, mention to your son that some
    time people disagree with each other and need their space to resolve
    their differences, and that he in no way caused this "family break-up"
    and that he did the right thing by telling you the truth.  Good luck!
    
    Kristy 

    Now that some time has passed, I am planning to drop a note to the mom,
    telling her I'm sorry if she thought I was out of line telling her or
    feeling that I can't trust her daughter to sit anymore.....
    The primary reason for putting this notefile in was to check out my 
    own head before I did this....if people thought I was really unreasonable, 
    I wanted to be clear on that and understand why.
    
    I agree with all of you (in retrospect) that I shouldn't have bothered
    to say anything to the parents...however, it was a case where we have
    been close for years and have always felt open to discuss what was
    going on....I really didn't expect them to "do" anything about it (and
    did say just that), but just wanted them to be aware of why I was upset.....
    
    if there is/was something else going on that caused the mom to get
    mad enough at me to walk out, I'm not sure what it was.....as I said,
    we've been close for years and we've always "been there" for each other
    to share both the good times AND the hard times.......
    
    to the noter who reference the lying, I agree that that was one of the
    worse parts...I have explained to my son that there are some times when
    "don't tell mom" is acceptable - things like birthday presents,
    Christmas presents, special "surprises".....but that if someone does
    something with/to him and says "don't tell", chances are that person
    KNOWS they're doing something I won't like and he's better off if he
    tells me so we can deal with it.
    
    thanks to all of you for your support......I'll send the note this
    weekend and hopefully be able to positively put this behind us....
    
    Debbi

    just an update to this situation, I did send the note to the mom
    before 4th of July....she did call to tell me she received it and
    we talked briefly on the phone that Sunday....so I guess that was a
    start to getting things patched up.....she did make a few comments
    about how she felt, but I tried hard not to get into a "well you made
    me feel like..." conversation since I figured it wasn't going to help
    to rehash everything......we were sort of together at a family-type
    outing later that day so it was good that we had talked first, but it
    was still a little strained.....hopefully it will get better.....this 
    weekend, her husband (my cousin) is coming over to help me do something
    at the house, so I invited her to join us when she gets out of work so
    we can have a bar-b-que or something....she hasn't said yes or no yet
    so we'll have to wait and see.....
    
    Debbi
    

    I just wanted to know how things worked out, and if the Bar B Q had
    happened?
    
    From my point of view I'd say if the girl is willing to sit again, then
    allow her to do so.  But set firm ground rules, like you will sit for
    my child here, and only here! There will be no riding around in a car.
    As for the SO, the jury is still out on that one, but I think you
    mentioned she was an "older" teen (18??) that's old enough to have a SO
    accompany her while sitting, provided your child still gets first
    priority and attention.  
    
    We've had our sitter, who was a senior in high school, ask permission
    for her friends, both boy and girl, to visit while she sat, as well as
    permission to take AJ with her in the car.  We agreed to both, the
    guests adhered to the rules I mentioned above, and the car ride was
    with the stipulation he was in his car seat at all times. (A seatbelt
    in your case.)
    
    I guess there's nothing that will send me into a tailspin faster than
    riding down a road and seeing an unrestrained child, or worse a child
    riding in another's lap.  Or lately it's been kids riding in the back
    of pickup trucks, even on the highways. (that is strictly outlawed BTW 
    in MA).  Why don't I have a carphone when I need one??
    
    Lyn

                       <<< Note 997.13 by JAWS::TRIPP >>>
                         -< Give her a second chance >-

>    I just wanted to know how things worked out, and if the Bar B Q had
>    happened?

    thanks for asking !!  the bar-b-que at other relatives' did happen,
    without much success...things between the girl's mom and I haven't
    improved much but I'm still trying......and trying not to get upset
    about things that have been happening
    
>    From my point of view I'd say if the girl is willing to sit again, then
>    allow her to do so.  But set firm ground rules, like you will sit for
>    my child here, and only here! There will be no riding around in a car.

    I have thought of doing so, but the girl hasn't been in touch since
    she was invited over to my house awhile ago and never showed.....if
    I get into a bind, I probably will reconsider, with STRICT rules
    spelled out before she says yes/no, but since work is busy and house
    is taking up most of the rest of my spare time, don't know if/when
    that might happen.

>    As for the SO, the jury is still out on that one, but I think you
>    mentioned she was an "older" teen (18??) that's old enough to have a SO
>    accompany her while sitting, provided your child still gets first
>    priority and attention.  

    Actually, it wasn't the SO that was a problem, since I knew him;
    it was having his YOUNGER UNLICENSED (learner's permit) brother
    driving the car with my son, unseatbelted, in it without my 
    knowledge.  The SO is really rather a nice boy, from what I know
    of him.
       
>    I guess there's nothing that will send me into a tailspin faster than
>    riding down a road and seeing an unrestrained child, or worse a child
>    riding in another's lap.  Or lately it's been kids riding in the back
>    of pickup trucks, even on the highways. (that is strictly outlawed BTW 
>    in MA).  Why don't I have a carphone when I need one??
    
    I AGREE !!!!  Especially after, once when I had car trouble, a friend
    of mine and I carpooled but she had a bunch of stuff in the car....we
    picked up my son and he (old enough to not be in a carseat) was on
    her lap with a seat belt........****don't WE get stopped by the cops***
    ( :-) my son still remembers this one occasionally !!  luckily the
    cop was understanding and knew from my license we only were going another
    block or so to home !!! ) --- then I see all the things you mentioned
    with NO cops around and much worse circumstances, like open backed
    trucks on the highway !!!!!!!!!!

	Again, thanks for asking !
	Debbi