Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Do you have a doorbell?  If so, maybe you should teach him how to use
    it.  Not to be an alarmist, but when I read your note, I immediately
    thought of that little girl (can't remember where she was from) who did
    the same thing, but in the winter.  She almost froze to death.
    
    Another idea;  maybe you can put a chain/lock at the very top of the
    door.  That way he can't reach it.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Joyce B.
    
    

    Personally, I'd opt for a second deadbolt rather than a chain. If he
    was able to reach the current deadbolt, chances are that it's too close
    to the doorknob/latch to be an effective deterrent to a potential
    intruder. (i.e. if two locks on a door are too close together, they
    tend to act as one pivot point for somebody trying to pry the door
    open.) I believe many deadbolt manufacturers recommend a spacing of
    'x'-inches (maybe 24"...) from the primary lock, resulting in a door
    that's secured in two distinct spots rather than one 'virtual' spot.
    Also, the extra 24+" should be enough to keep it out of Jason's reach
    until he's old enough to know better.
    
    Hope you find a solution, and I'll be interested in the other
    suggestions, as my son has begun to climb out of his crib, and my
    biggest fear is that he somehow finds a way (despite a lock system
    similar to the above) to get outside without us knowing about it.
    
    Good luck...

    We have a doorbell .. .that doesn't work.  Plus it's way too high for
    him.
    
    I'm a little nervous about putting a chain or higher lock on the door,
    because then they COULDN'T get out if there's a fire.  I guess I'm
    looking for the impossible -- a way they can't get out, but can still
    Get Out if need be!
    
    Does anyone have any experience w/ the "Door Open" alarms?  I remember
    seeing something (I think it's made for sliders), that set off an alarm
    when the door is open.  It'd have to be fairly loud because it's on the
    opposite end/floor of the house as my bedroom ... and obviously, we'd
    need to be able to turn it on/off....
    
    Maybe I should reverse the baby monitor and have the transmitter
    downstairs, and the receiver by my bed....!
    
    Thanks,
    Patty

    Patty, my guess is that he has learned his leason.  Being locked out
    and you say he looked plenty scared when you let him in.  I trust he's
    learned by his "mistake."  Just remind him not to do that again and
    talk about the things that could happen to him.  Let him know how
    worried you were that you couldn't find him in the house and ask him
    how he would feel if you went out and didn't tell him and then he
    couldn't find you.  
    
    In our house we have a courtesy rule that we know where each other is
    at all times.  Even my 13 year old will say, I'm going outside.  I tell
    them if I'm going to get the paper, hang clothes or whatever also.  My
    husband does too.  It has become second nature for us.  I'm sure my 13
    year old really wants us to know in case the PHONE should ring!!
    
    Anyway, he's 3+, he'll understand.  These little guys understand more
    than they let on.  
    

    I agree that he has *probably* learned his lesson.
    
    But maybe a way to get it to sink in would be to collaborate on a
    poster, which you could scotch-tape to the inside of the door(s).  If
    he helps you with it (draws the little boy, for instance, or the door,
    or the big red "X" meaning "don't do this!"), he'll understand it and
    be reminded.  Post it (for a couple of weeks?) at his eye level.
    
    You could make it small (5x7), cover it with clear contact paper, punch
    2 holes in it, tie yarn to it and make it a doorknob-hanger-reminder...
    
    Leslie 

    Our home is equiped with the locks that require a key on each side -
    they are deadbolts, but you need a key to open it from the inside. This
    may be an answer for you. 

    Keyed deadbolts always scared me.  What if there was a fire and you
    needed to get out fast and the key is not right there?  What if your
    child needed to run for help, would he/she be able to get out?  
    
    Just my fears.
    
    

Keyed deadbolts are illegal in many places precisely because of the
danger in emergencies.

Do you want your kid to be unable to get out (which could be dangerous
in an emergency) or to be unable to lock himself out?  If the latter,
simply don't have a locking livebolt.

    We DEFINITELY want the kids to be able to get out if they need to.  We
    DON'T want them to be able to lock themselves out.  Which sort of rules
    out a keyed deadbolt.  I'm not nuts about them either - we'd just end
    up leaving the key in the lock (if you can do that).
    
    For now we're not locking the livebolt, just the deadbolt.  If he gets
    that open, well then he's free ....  Unfortunately sometimes they lock
    the livebolt just playing around.
    
    As far as learning his lesson (hahahaha!!!) ... you don't know Jason. 
    He was pretty scared - for about 3 nano-seconds.  He *HAS* since however,
    learned how to unlock the livebolt and has been checking it BEFORE he
    goes out.  This is probably the best solution of all.  I think he
    learned enough to be aware, but not enough to stop him from wandering. 
    I told him he should never go outside alone unless something was very
    wrong, and he laughed .... Just one or two blood cells with a little
    fear or caution - that's all I ask!!  This is the kid that will give me
    gray hair! (-:
    
    Thank goodness he DOES know to stay in the yard.
    
    THANKS!!!
    Patty

    We have keyed deadbolts on ALL our outside doors.  They're no more
    dangerous than any lock, we simply leave the key in the lock, or attack
    the key to a string and loop it around the door handle. (That's
    attach).  The kids were taught how to unlock the deadbolt at the
    appropriate age, yet I can lock the doors for 15 minutes (for a shower)
    if I want to ensure they'll stay inside.  It's also a bit more secure
    if we're on vacation -- we lock the doors and take the keys.
    
    But I think that by the time a child is 4 or so you have to rely on
    trusting him a bit more.  I'd continue to go with talking to him and
    making him understand that it could be dangerous for him to go outside
    by himself, without your knowledge of where he is, and that he needs to
    be trustworthy enough not to disobey the rules about doing it.
    
    When I was a kid we also had the rule about ALWAYS letting my mother
    know where we were, where we going.  If we left the yard we always had
    to ask permission, tell her where we wanted to go, who we were going
    with, and when we would be back.  If I was at my friends house and
    wanted to go somewhere else, I had to either go home and get
    permission, or call my mom.  If I didn't, and she found out there was
    hell to pay!
    

    You mentioned something to the effect of an alarm.  
    
    Well, we just put a security system into our house.  It was very
    inexpensive, and covers the slider, the front door, and the basement
    door, we also have a heat/motion detector.  All which was installed for
    $250.00.
    
    We did not have the system put in for the reason we are talking about
    in this note, but it does let us know if she were to leave the house 
    (after the alarm is set) at night or early in the AM.  
    
    I know that this note was not intended for the discussion of Security
    Systems, but I am really glad we had it put in.  Some of the best
    reason - beside the fact that the house is secure:
    
    	If we ever had an emergency needing an ambulance or fire truck, we
    	just need to punch in a two digit panic code and an ambulance or
    	fire engine will be dispatched to our house.
    
    	The door alarms, if somebody (a young child) were to leave the
    	house without disarming the system.
    
    	An intruder, wheather we are home or not sirens go off and police
    	dispatched.
    
    Sorry to have gone on about this, but I am really excited about it.  I
    feel so safe at home, when Kati and I are home alone at night.
    
    
    	ROBIN
    

    I'm for the last noter's solution of an alarm.  In my opinion this is
    the best solution.
    
    My husband's little boy (2.5 years old) from his first marriage did the 
    same thing;  got out of his room, out of the house, and into the pool. 
    Only this kid never came back.
    
    Don't wait, please.
    

    � Does anyone have any experience w/ the "Door Open" alarms?  I remember
    � seeing something (I think it's made for sliders), that set off an alarm
    � when the door is open.  It'd have to be fairly loud because
    � it's on the opposite end/floor of the house as my bedroom ... and
    � obviously, we'd need to be able to turn it on/off....
                 
    You can buy a very inexpensive alarm (~$10) for the door.  They are a
    little hard to find, but we've had one on the back door for quite a
    while.  I certainly recommend it over doing nothing.  The big advantage
    is that it hangs right on the door, so you control right from there. 
    It sticks to the door and screws into the door frame.  
    
    The problem is getting people to pay attention to it and not shut it
    off.  The older kids either ignore it or turn it off. I don't know if
    it would wake me up, possibly not.  My wife and I both pay it a lot of
    attention, and fortunately the baby's monitor picks up the sound and
    amplifies it into our room, which is quite far away.
    
    It can be set to off, on immediately, or on if the door is
    open for 5 seconds.  It goes off when the door is closed.  So if he
    learns to close the door, the system fails.  So it wouldn't help Patty
    (.0) unless she set it to go off right away and heard it right away. 
    Ours is a regular hinged door, but it would work on a slider, too.
    
    Since it is an Atrium door (with panes of glass), we have a
    double-keyed deadbolt on it, with the key on a shelf very nearby. 
    Chase (almost 3) is starting to eye the key and the chair, so we have
    started putting the key higher up.  If we leave the key in the lock, he
    takes it . . . .
    
    We bought it at Toys R Us, but they don't have it very often around
    here.
    
    Ben

    Ben,
    
    Any idea what it's called or who makes it??  This is just the type of
    alarm that I was talking about.  As I said, I can move the monitor so
    that it 'listens' from the kitchen (door), and they're PRETTY SLOW
    about opening the door, getting out and closing it again (especially
    when the A/Cs on (-:).  
    
    He's gotten so that he DEFINITELY CHECKS to make sure the door's not
    locked when he goes out - but I definitely don't like the idea of him
    'sneaking out' when I'm sleeping.
    
    THANKS!
    Patty

I have NEVER been happy about latch type locks (livebolts) because of the
ability to lock keys inside by accident; because except for the modified
self "deading" models the security of these locks is low; and now hearing 
a child locked him/herself outside.

I am now happily convinced that I will not use a self-locking latch and
only use deadbolts when I have to replace our outside doors later this
year  (they currently use short throw deadbolts and non-latching catches.

I'm almost tempted to import some of the ball catches from England which
only "hold" the door closed rather than latching it closed.  The heavy
duty ones will hold doors closed in strong wind.  The door can be opened
witha  good pull or push (as appropriate) and if you want to lock it, you
use the dead-bold.

Stuart

Re: .15

You don't have to import the "ball catches" - they are sold in the US.
They're just a bit hard to find, that's all.

				Steve

    For your amusement - a somewhat reversed situation...
    
    My daughter, Molly, was about 20 months.  She was sitting in her high
    chair eating breakfast.  (I was already on my way to work.)  My wife
    went out to the car to get something and discovered that she had locked
    herself out of the house.
    
    She went around back, onto the deck.  Molly, who was sitting facing the
    deck waved at her, and went back to eating.  After trying all the doors
    and windows, my wife went to a neighbor's and called the fire
    department.  They came and checked all of the doors and windows again,
    including the ones on the second floor, and, of course, they were all
    locked.  They finally jimmied one of the first floor windows and had a
    fireman climb in to unlock the door.
    
    Molly thought it was all great fun, with a fire engine in the front of
    the house and the fireman climbing in the window.
    
    But that's not the end of the story...
    
    About a year later, my wife did the same thing again - locked herself
    out of the house with Molly inside.  Molly was sitting at the kitchen
    table coloring, saw Mommy, waved to her, but just kept on coloring. 
    Susan tried to call on the telephone to tell her to open the front
    door, but Molly was so wrapped up in her coloring, she didn't answer
    the phone.
    
    Susan called the fire department again.  They came, checked all of the
    doors and windows ...  Then the deputy chief asked if anyone had rung
    the doorbell.  No, nobody had.  So he rang the doorbell and, of course,
    Molly got up and opened the door.

    Re: .17... Hahaha!  Now that Marc is tall enough and clever enough to
    turn the deadbolt in the house, I make sure I have my keys in my pocket
    if I run into the garage to get something out of the car.  He hasn't 
    yet figured out how to turn doorknobs, so I'd be locked out for sure!

    Well, thank you for all the replies!!  A few days later, and Jason has
    definitely learned to check the door before he goes out, and we've had
    many discussions about him going out when we're not 'up' or without us
    knowing, and it's really sunk in.
    
    Since I'll be moving out shortly, I'm leaving the house up to my
    husband, but I will be getting alarms for the apartment.  That's
    scarier because there's potentially 3 doors he could get locked out of,
    and he'd be out in the parking lot if he Did!!  
    
    When they're at the house one of us will be there in the a.m., so no
    danger of them being awake alone in the house (except the w/end I
    guess).  Even still, I think he'll probably get some sort of alarm.
    
    It sure made it clear how these freak accidents happen !
    
    Thanks!!!
    Patty

    Notes collision .... re.17,18
    I forgot about this ... a friend of mine went out to get the paper in
    the morning.  She was constantly after her (then) 2-year old to keep
    the door closed, so when he came around the corner and saw it open, he
    slammed it shut.  She was locked out!
    
    She was trying to get him to open the door and couldn't so she told him
    she was going to go get help (apparantly a neighbor down the street had
    a key).  Well, this boy was pretty bright, and remembered what to do
    when you need "Help!" and pushed the 'panic button' for their security
    system.  When she got back to the house, the police were there waiting
    for her ...
    
    THAT was pretty funny!!

    We have a friend who had a "little miss Houdini", they had a lock on
    the doorknob, deadbolt that could be opened only by turning the thing
    on the inside, a chain slider and eventually put a hook and eye way up
    at the top of the door.  This little girl was able to get out of her
    bed, open all of the above locks and toddle around her condo building. 
    She almost got herself shot one night, as she was trying various
    doorknobs, and found one that was unlocked as the woman in the
    apartment watched and thought it was a prowler.  She simply walked in
    and in the inocence of a child asked if the neighbor had some candy!
    
    For our experience, we hired a friend's sitter once (first and last
    time for her), we had left the door unlocked, and assumed she'd leave
    it that way until we returned.  Unfortunate for us she had locked the
    door after we left, and fallen into a very deep sleep.  My husband
    rang the doorbell, banged on the three windows that were behind and
    beside the couch she was sleeping on, and finally from way in the back
    of the house comes our son.  He had been awakened by the noise NOT the
    sitter!!  He is the one who was able to unlock the door, it was a twist
    button on the door knob, and let us in to wake up the sitter.  Like I
    said it was this sitter's first and last time with us!  Just FWIW, our
    friend who recommended her had had no nighttime experience with her. 
    She had used her to babysit during the gap between the end of school
    and when they returned from work around 5pm, and had no way of knowing
    this girl became comastose when she slept!!