Conference moira::parenting_v3

    "The books" say to stay out of baths/pools once your water has
    broken.  I have no idea if you'd be able to feel it if you are
    in the water.  The doctor broke mine.  I suppose you might feel
    a gush, but if it trickles, you'll probably never notice.
    
    Maybe there are other books that have different opinions on this.
    
    Donna
    

    There is a method of child birth were the mother is in a
    pool and the baby is  born into the water... this might  be
    an alternative.
    
    BJ

    From all I have read and from what my doctor told me when I was
    pregnant, once your water breaks you are suppose to go directly to the
    hospital.  The explaination I was given (and mine did break) was that
    they want to make sure you don't get an infection.  My doctor told me
    not to even take a bath (shower was okay) after my water broke.  I
    would think a swimming pool would be out.  
    
    Why not check with your doctor and see what he says.
    
    Kathy

    Bonnie JR is right, there is a method of childbirth that will let
    you do this.  The "pool" isn't a regular swimming pool, so it
    minimizes the dangers of infection.  You should be able to find a
    book about it in the pregnancy section of any good bookstore. 
    If it sounds like something you'd want to follow through on, you
    can discuss it with your OB. 
    
    It's supposed to be very good for the baby, since it can come out
    into water the same temperature as your body and not have the
    shock of cold air and subsequent chill that a lot of newborns
    suffer.
    
    Your waters won't necessarily break -- mine broke only once in
    three labors -- so spending some of early labor in the pool would
    certainly be possible.  The way my waters broke, I could have felt
    it even in the pool, but I'm told not everybody gushes out like
    that, so I'd suggest getting out periodically to make sure you
    aren't dripping, and if you are, get straight to the hospital. 
    
    One of the reasons they're so cautious is that there's evidence
    that sometimes the bag of waters breaks becasue there is already
    an infection, usually an undetected bladder infection, that can be
    very dangerous for the baby.  
    
    --bonnie

    The hospital where I gave birth to both girls (Mt. Auburn in Cambridge)
    has a jacuzzi where mothers (and dads) can sit and (ahem) "relax" while
    the mom is in labor.  Apparently, it's supposed to be quite soothing.  
    Moms can bathe in the nude; dads are supposed to wear bathing suits. 
    Laboring women can use the tub until their water breaks.
    
    After packing suits and changes of clothing, etc. we ended up not using
    the tub.  Elizabeth arrived only an hour and a quarter after I walked
    through the hospital door; we barely had time to realize I really *was*
    in labor.  
    
    So...some hospitals have "water-oriented" facilities.
    
    Regards,
    Lois
    

    re: .0
    
    My water broke with both of my pregnancies.  Each time, I felt a
    small twinge, very low inside me (probably near my cervix).  The
    fluid started leaking almost immediately after although I did make
    it to the toilet both times.
    
    The baby's head was very low in my first pregnancy and acted like
    a cork so I had very little leakage.  I wouldn't have noticed this
    sort of leaking if my water had broken in a pool or bathtub.  In my
    second pregnancy, the baby's head was not as low so the leakage was
    much heavier.  I probably would have noticed this in a pool from
    its warmth - assuming the water temperature was lower than body
    temperature.
    
    Personally, I would consult my doctor and follow his/her advice.  I
    recall reading that in most cases the membranes don't rupture until
    the later stages of labor so I suspect spending the early stages in
    a pool would be ok.  On the other hand, you have had three other
    children - how quick were your labors with them?  You may not even
    have much in the way of early labor with this one %^).
    
    Ruth

    Ruth,
    
    I'm sure that you and others here are only thinking of the safety of
    the baby, and I truly appreciate it.  To answer your question, though,
    my first labor was 22 hours, and the second was 27 hours, (that one was
    17 years ago, I also had a c-section 3 years ago but no labor).  When I
    say I want to spend some of the early stage of labor in the water, I
    mean perhaps 2 or 3 hours, nothing more.  I asked at my Lamaze
    refresher course how long the nurse thought I could expect to be in
    labor this time.  (Most people assume that your fourth child will fly
    out!)  Her answer was that it will be very similiar to a first labor
    (depressing, isn't it??)...
    
    So, with that in mind, coupled with the fact that it's darn hot in
    Maryland in July, I thought my idea sounded very relaxing.  Please
    don't let me alarm, anyone, though -- I'll be asking my doctor on
    Monday if he thinks it would be ok.
    
    Again, I also have no idea what "breaking your water" feels like, as
    I've yet to experience this!
    
    Thanks for the replies -- keep them coming!
    
    Dale

    How it feels to break your water...
    
    My water broke with my first and it GUSHED!  Unfortunately, I was in a
    restaurant at the time.  I will NEVER forget the look on my brother-in-
    laws face when I told him my water broke!  My sister looked at me and
    said "You look like you just peed your pants!"  I said, "No, but my
    water just broke!"  He panicked!  I was a month early at the time.
    
    The second one also broke - but this time it was just a little trickle. 
    I could tell it was my waters because I couldn't stop it from escaping
    my body, and I had a slight weird sensation just before (which woke
    from an afternoon nap).  
    
    When you mentioned using the pool for relaxation and weightlessness,
    just remember you want gravity to work with you on this one.  I believe
    my second labor would have been shorter if I had spent more time
    standing or reclining than sitting.  
    
    -sandy
    

As an opposing point of view, my instructions were that if my water broke,
I should call immediately, not go to the hospital immediately.

The reason was that I wouldn't necessarily need to go to the hospital, 
depending upon the circumstances.

So, my opinion is that you should ask your medical care provider.  If you
don't get an answer you like, you may be able to negotiate a compromise (like
using the jacuzzi that some hospitals have in their L&D suites, or using your
own bathtub with restrictions).

    re: .7
    
    Dale,
    
    Geez, another FIRST labor.  How depressing.  I hope it goes easier
    than that.  My mother was in a similar situation to yours - she
    had my brother Ralph 8 or so years after my sister.  If I remember
    correctly she went through about 8 hours of labor.  She did say it
    was worse than births 2, 3 and 4 but not as bad as birth 1 (me).
    However, although Ralph's presentation was head down, he was facing
    forward.  I believe this position can make labor tougher.
    
    While I'm relating mom's birth experiences - her water broke in the
    bathtub with number 3 and she never noticed.  I think she delivered
    my sister about 2 hours later.  There were no complications.
    
    Ruth
    
    PS - As for my advice to consult with your doctor... That was just
         a general disclaimer.  I would have few qualms about heading
    	 for the pool during early labor.  In fact, I would have taken
    	 a bath after my water broke with Andrew (baby number 2) if my
    	 doctor hadn't told me not to.  I hope I didn't sound too
    	 patronizing in the previous note.

    RE: water breaking
    
    My sister's water broke around 6 am....however, she didn't want
    to be the type of person 'who ran to the hospital' everytime 
    something happened.  Unfortunately, she didn't realize it broke
    because it was being released in a 'trickle' and she figured it
    was nothing.
    
    At about 3 that afternoon she called the Dr.  They told her
    to go right to the hospital.  It seems, because the 'sac' had
    broken and not realizing she was starting labor (because
    there weren't any contractions) the baby got a nasty bladder 
    infection from contamination and was in the hospital for 10 days.  
    (After she went to the hospital she was in labor an additional
    18 hours)
    
    Personally, when my water breaks, I will call the doc and ask
    what I should do...she was heartbroken leaving her first son in
    the hospital all taped up with tubes, etc. I imagine that worse
    things can happen as well....
    
    In my book, Complete Book of Pregnancy and Child Birth, there is
    a section on giving birth in the water.  I would think the risk
    of infection would be very high, if you use a swimming pool.  Who
    knows what the chlorine would do.
    
    Kristen

    I was told by my child birth instructor not to sit in a bath or pool if
    your water breaks, because of possible infection. Showers are ok,
    because your not sitting in the water. I had what they call meconium
    when my water broke on it's own and that alone,(if any of you are
    familiar with it,) is not good for the mother or the baby if not
    watched closely.
    
    
    Sandy

All these fears of infection are interesting. In Poutiers, France there is a
hospital where almost all births are in water or the mother stays in the water
until just before birth. I can't remember the exact figures on the number of
births they have performed this way over the years but I do remember that the
infection rate was so insignificant it could not be held as an argument against
the method and the c-section % rate at the hospital was so low it would blow the
minds of anyone in the U.S!

I just wish the Euro_Women VAXnotes conference was still around, I wrote loads
of stuff on the subject in there.

/Dave.

    My doctor told me to stay out of the pool at least 2 weeks prior to the
    expected date.  There is a chance you may not feel your water breaking. 
    It's a serious chance to take.  But, like you I WANT MY POOL!  Getting
    in and out may not be such a bad idea, but with all this extra weight
    it's not hardly worth the effort!
    

    re: .13
    
    Right.  I think that's the hospital where the doctor who wrote the
    book I was talking about practices. 
    
    But hospital pool situations aren't the same as a home swimming
    pool. Which is why I suggested Dale should check with her doctor
    about whether such supervised, sterile settings are available.
    
    --bonnie

Re.15:

The doctor in that case is Michael Odent. Michael Odent is now based in London
and is available for home water births, which by the way, use tap water with
no added substances whatsoever. The important thing, according to Odent, is the
water temp.

With regard to doctors advise, remember most doctors will "tow the party line"
when it comes to new techniques. 

If you really want to do something different you'll need to read around the
subject and present these arguments to your doctor to convince them or perhaps
change doctor. 

/Dave.

THe Water Birthing Method aluded to by several notes, is known as the
"LeBoyer" (sp) method. After Dr LeBoyer, a french OB. Key factors are 1.
the temperature of the water and 2. the cleanliness. We discussed this with
our OB/Gyn prior to Andrew's birth, and while it has had popular reaction in
Europe, the Hospital we were looking at wasn't geared up for it (they are
now). Andrew ended up breaching and arriving via C-sect, anyway.

Our doctor mentioned that in some instances, the infant doesn't realize that
it has left the amniotic Sac, and continue's to survive without breathing.

Dr Leboyer claims that this lessening of the Birth trauma, has had a
significant effect on those children delivered that way, and supposedly has
done studies about their later development etc.

q

re.17:

Leboyer was the author of "Birth without Violence", well worth reading but
be prepared to be shocked. Leboyer is a pioneer and an idealist, Odent 
tempers Leboyer theory with practical experience.

/Dave.

    I asked my OB yesterday about early laboring in my pool, and he had no
    idea at all!  He said he's never heard of it and can't comment as to
    whether it would be a good thing or a bad thing.  (He didn't tell me
    not to try it, though.)
    
    Anyway, don't you hate it when you ask the "authority" and they can't
    enlighten you one way or another?
    
    I'll play it by ear.  I may try it (only in the very early stages of
    labor), only to find that I can't stand walking around in the water. 
    Or.... I may go into labor in the middle of the night and won't be
    interested at all in getting in the pool.... or, it might be raining!
    
    I'll let you know what happens,
    
    Dale

    Hi,
    
    It seemed crazy to me when I asked my OB for advice on certain issues
    and he couldn't tell me what to do.  There were two issues that stand
    out for me: 1) I asked if I could still run and do other physical
    exercise during my pregnancy - being almost 300 lbs himself he couldn't
    advise me so I did what my body allowed me to do, 2) I like my jacuzzi
    and wanted to continue to take hot baths regularly - he told me hot
    baths could be a problem but I couldn't live without them so I just
    turned down the heat.
    
    Good luck, anything one can do to make labor more bearable has to be a
    plus.
    
    Sue

    Sue,
    
    The pregnancy guidebook my OB provided stated the following
    (paraphrased):
    
    Especially in the first trimester do not take hot baths.  This may be
    harmful to the fetus.  (Due to YOUR elevated body temperature.)
    
    You may continue whatever physical fitness routine you are already
    doing.  Be aware of your changing center of balance.  If you start a
    new physical fitness routine, keep it very mild.
    
    Laura

    Isn't it funny how Dr.s often don't have the answer?
    
    This is a gentle warning and is not directed at the base-noter.  I have
    no info about labor in the pool.  What I do know is that a friend of
    mine lost a child to SIDS.  She started going to a group therapy
    session for mothers whose children had died.  One of the group members
    lost her baby when it drowned during a water birthing.
    
    For those interested in water-birthing, just take some time to be sure
    that what you are doing is safe.
    
    jimc

re.22:

That's only the 2nd incident I've heard of drowning, and I've read a lot around
this subject. The other incident was in Britain and involved a couple who
decided to go it alone with no professional backup and did not even realise
there was a problem and call for help for 30 minutes! They birthing method was
therefore not at fault.

Some water birthing methods, in particular those used in the USSR, involve
the baby being under water for several minutes. The methods practiced in France
and Britain only involve a few seconds and thus drowning is NOT a risk. Please
also note that babies have an automatic reflex which starts their breathing,
this takes place on exposure to the air and change of temperature. Perhaps in
the case mentioned in .22 the baby was kept under water which was at the wrong
temperature?

I would be really grateful if you could find out the facts and post them. I
would imagine this would have made your local press.

Regards,
Dave.