Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I think if I were in your shoes I'd feel like I were being jerked
    around too!  My first pregnancy ended in a C-section.  When I became
    pregnant the next time, I REALLY didn't want to go through another
    C-section, because for me it was a quite unpleasant experience.  When I
    suggested a VBAC to my doctor he was all for it.  My doctor was trained
    in Britain, and apparently VBAC is far more common there than it has
    been here in the US.  So, it was perfectly normal for him to accept my
    request for a VBAC.
    
    Of course inside I was a bit uncertain.  I had gone through labor the
    first time and gotten to the delivery room, but had been unable to
    actually birth the little darlings (2). But for number two there was no
    reason to expect another C-section.
    
    To make a long story short, my son was born VBAC perfectly normally,
    and in fact I have been pregnant again and given birth by VBAC again
    with perfect normalcy.  The key is to have a doctor who believes in
    VBAC, and that to me sounds like your problem.  SOunds like your doctor
    doesn't believe in it.
    
    I was very pleased with the two VBACs, happy I had decided to give
    birth that way, no regrets.
     
    And my doctor was wonderful about it.
    

In Europe it is quite common.  I think I noted my experience in another reply
somewhere in this conference.  I almost died with the Caesarian and did 24 hrs
with the second but the doctor said it was best for the baby.  He also said
I shouldn't do another normal delivery after that one.  Guess I'm too old for 
more babies anyway :-(

The important thing is to have complete confidence in your doctor.  I did and
he was fantastic.  From my first delivery, I was afraid of what might happen
if something went wrong (afraid? read terrified) but, although I could ask
about everything else, I was too terrified to ask that one question until after
I had successfully delivered.  Then I found out that everything was, of course,
ready to do an emergency caesarian with full staff on standby.

My doctor was in the hospital, mostly at my side, for the entire twelve hours
up to delivery.  I was fully informed throughout my entire pregnancy of all
the complications and risks, both the reasons for the caesarian and the
problems with the normal delivery.  I had a miscarriage in between the two so
I had bi-weekly controls where all progress was clearly explained to me.

You really have to feel comfortable with the situation.  I could kick myself 
now for worrying so before the second was born and not asking.  But knowing
my doctor was good and having the level of confidence in him that I did was the
best thing I can imagine.

ccb

    
    I think it depends on the doctor that you have.  I didn't have any
    c-sections but, was told if my second baby was bigger then the first 
    (8 lbs 2 oz) I would have to go c-section.  My second and third child
    were both smaller then the first.
    							carol
    

    I also had a c-section with my first pregnancy.  It was not expected at
    all!  My whole pregnancy was as smooth as glass.  I went into labor and
    29 hours later it looked  like Andrew wasn't going to deliver right; he
    was in front (where the cervix was supposed to be and the cervix was in 
    back [pointing towards my rectum]).  The doctors tried to rectify the
    situation (OUCH) during contractions but it caused more fetal and mom
    distress than it should have - so off to the operating room we went.
    
    I also don't know if I have to have a c-section this time around or
    not.  My doctors haven't even brought the subject up yet and I'm 34
    weeks along.  So Kate, I'm feeling as antsy as you.  I want a vaginal
    delivery - but having already gone through labor (another OUCH) I'm
    also scared.  I guess if this baby gets in the same position as Andrew
    did during labor, then I'm just going to tell them to get out the
    scalpel (sp) because I don't want to go through the same manual
    manipulation of the cervix that I had the first time.  Only this time,
    I hope we'll determine this much earlier than we did the first time and
    save me some "discomfort".  But if this kid is in the right position(s)
    than I'm going to go for a vaginal.  
    
    Can you tell that I kind of want it both ways?  The "not pain" of the 
    c-section, but the experience of the vaginal delivery??
    
    I think I'll have to be more "to the point" with my doctor on the next 
    visit to see what his experience tells him of situations like mine,
    instead of allowing myself to go on "not knowing".
    
    Nancy

    Boy you two sound like you have my doctor...EVASIVE
    
    I think it's real important that you get definite answers from your
    doctor(s).  In my case my first baby  was posterior (sunny side up)
    and large 9lb 1oz.  After pushing for 6 hours with no progress they
    decided to do a c-section.  Well, when I was pregnant for my second I
    sat down with my doctor and asked what should I do.  Being the evasive
    doctor that he is (don't get me wrong he is probably one of the best
    doctors in the area) he just said, well let's see how the baby grows
    and if it's more then 8lbs, we'll do a c-section.
    
    At about 36 weeks I had an ultrasound done to see the size.  He told me
    at that time that the baby was 8 1/2 lbs.  The following week my water
    broke.  I called him at 1:00am and he said "well, what do you want to do? 
    Do you want to wait to go into labor and try a vaginal birth"  Now I
    was confused...  I said to him, you told me the baby was 8.5 lbs last
    week and that I shouldnt deliver a baby over 8 lbs.  This is when he
    decided to tell me that the ultrasound is 20% either way!!!
    
    To make a long story short, I went in the hospital at 7:00 am and they
    started to prep me for a c-section.  Something crazy happened, my blood
    pressure and the baby's heart rate dropped dramatically and
    consequently they had to knock me out and do an emergency c-section.  I
    think (they disagree) that this all happened because I was uptight
    about his indecisivness and my own indecisivness.  As it turned out,
    everything was fine (but definitely not fun!!!!)   and btw, Tommy was
    7lbs 9oz.
    
    I personally feel it's important to make a decision before you go into
    labor.  If you're at a high risk (i.e., can't deliver a baby over 6
    lbs) why cause the added stress to yourself.
    
    Good luck.

    I forgot to mention -- my doctor also told me if the baby was larger
    than 8 lbs, I should plan on going C-section.  An ultrasound at 38
    weeks determined he was already 8 lbs.  I went another 2 1/2 weeks and
    was getting pretty nervous, but when push came to shove (so to speak) I
    went VBAC anyway and the doctor never mentioned the weight being a
    determining factor again.  Sometimes I think they just use that as an
    "out" in case they need some leverage to persuade you to go C-section.
    
    This child's head was HUGE by the way, and was delivered just fine.  It
    was so big it was off the top of the chart for head size for newborns. 
    It was the first thing the labor nurses mentioned as he was born!  It's
    still big but his body is catching up with it.  My pediatrician says it
    means he's gonna be big!  Kinda like big paws on a puppy!  8*}
    
    

    I'm almost 33 weeks.  My first baby was almost 19 years ago, and when
    she crowned, they gave me gas (got the labor, but didn't get to push
    her out), and needed forceps to deliver her.  Second child, 17 years
    ago, got a spinal when he crowned, and didn't get to push him out
    either.  Three years ago, after completing Lamaze (for the first time),
    I was totally prepared to go "all the way", but due to his breech
    position he was delivered by c-section, and because I had gestational
    diabetes, he was delivered early.  (Too early; he couldn't breathe on
    his own and was in intensive care for ten days.)...
    
    Anyway, I discussed my desire to have a vaginal birth from the very
    beginning of this pregnancy, and my doc has informed me that as long as
    the baby is not breech, that I could go ahead and try it.  He did say I
    would be placed on a monitor as soon as I arrived at the hospital.  I
    just want a birth experience with my husband (not the biological father
    of the first two), that is closer to the idyllic baby magazine stories
    we read.  At this point, as long as the baby isn't wisked away at birth
    we'll be rejoicing...
    
    We start our Lamaze refresher course this weekend.  The baby is still
    breech.  Should I not worry about this?  (I thought babies usually
    turned around by now.)
    
    Just looking for some encouragement, I guess.
    
    Thanks for opening this new VBAC topic!
    
    Dale

    
     When I got pregnant with my last child I was already determined that
    it would be another C-section. My first was natural then I had two
    sections the third was a scheduled section. My youngest at the time 
    I got pregnant with my fourth was almost 4 yrs. old. I had no idea that
    there was VBAC. At first I was very reluctant to even discuss going
    through labor. My doctor highly recommended it but he said he would not
    force me. I guess it was that awful fear of going through 24 hrs. of 
    labor again. My doctor recommended VBAC classes. The classes were
    great. They are strictly for VBAC participants. Once we completed the
    classes I was more at ease of going natural again. My doctor thought
    that it was a small baby and I wouldn't have any problems delivering
    natural. Well much to his suprise I was 15 days late when I was finally
    induced (3 days before Xmas) and after laboring only 6 hours they 
    decided to do a C-section. Justin weighed in at 9lbs. 11ozs. with a 
    head circumference of 15 3/4 inches. He was far from a small baby. 
    Even though I ended up with another C-section I am glad that I tried
    to go VBAC. Also with it being my third section recovery was fast. 
    I had an epidural and was sitting up holding the baby in my room with
    in 5 minutes of coming out of surgery. I was up taking a shower with 
    in 15 hours of having Justin. 
     I would push your doctor to make a decision now. I am surprised to 
    see how many doctors are not pushing for VBAC. My doctor told me that
    due to insurance costs with in the near future unless you have 
    a medical reason that you can not try natural delivery you can not 
    have a schedule C-section. Such as if one pregnancy is breech it will not
    mean the second one will be.                                       
    

    Hello,
    
    I have some more questions for those of you who have attempted a VBAC:
    
    Did your doctor have any limitations about when he/she wouldn't attempt
    a VBAC?  For example, if the the baby was over "n" pounds the doctor
    would reccommend a repeat c-section?  Or the doctor wouldn't induce you
    if you were overdue and would just schedule a repeat c-section?
    
    Did you have to do anything "special" in labor because you had a
    previous c-section?  For example, did you have an I.V. running at all
    times?  Did you have to check into the hospital as soon as you went
    into labor, as opposed to waiting for the contractions to be 5 minutes 
    apart?  Were you monitored more frequently?  I read in a book that some
    hospitals require your doctor to be present during the ENTIRE time
    you're in labor if you're trying to have a VBAC.  Was your doctor with
    you the ENTIRE time?  
    
    Have a good day.
    
    Maryann
    
    

    I had a vbac, and the doctor was not there the entire time. I was in
    the labor and delivery room, and nurses, etc were in and out (25 hour
    labor...) but often it was my husband, me and the monitors. I had an IV
    because I had Mag. Sulfate for toxemia, but I do not believe that you
    need to have it just because you are a VBAC. I delivered at Worcester
    Memorial, and they were VERY supportive of VBAC - in fact, they were
    very proud of their high rate of VBAC deliveries. 
    
    Good Luck !
    
    Leeann
    

    
    I suggest you contact B.A.C.E. (Boston Association for Childbirth
    Education) in Newton. they're listed in the Boston white pages. 
    This non-profit support organization also has a VBAC support group as 
    well. They are professionals (Doctors and Nurses) and parents who 
    answer questions and provide support to new parents. They will provide
    referals to doctors who are more open to your wishes if you ask them
    but mostly they'll give you good solid information to make your own
    choices with.
    
    Mike - former BACE labor coach

I went in 12 hours before the baby was born.  The contractions were (as 
recommended here) 15 minutes apart.  the water broke about three hours later.

Since this baby wasn't breech and there were no obvious complications, the
doctor did not say the conditions under which he would do another caesarian.
the baby weighed 3100 gms at birth.  I guess that is normal size.

The doctor was in the hospital the entire time.  He was with me for about the
last two hours.  Nurses and my husband were with me for the rest of the time
I was connected to a monitor the entire 12 hours.

The parts of the delivery which I am told were different from normal: I had
little or no pain killer (twice a little pill to slightly dull the pain).  The
lower back ache was excruciating.  If the previous scar should tear, they
want to see it in your face immediately.

I labored for 24 hours.  I was given nothing to increase the strength of the
contractions or to hurry the process.  This is to avoid putting stress on the
scar.

I had to wait at least a year after the caesarian (I think this is true even
for another caesarian) before the doctor said it was safe to become pregnant.

Afterwards (I was too scared BEFORE ;-) I asked what would have happened had
I needed an emergency caesarian.  It turns out that I was in a special delivery
room with a full operating theater next door fully staffed.  There was a big 
syringe in the delivery room ready to knock me out.  I would have been doused
with disinfectantant and they would have had the baby out in under four minutes.
Of course they can't do the bikini cut then.  You get the zipper cut instead.

OK, so the delivery was a bit hard but so what.  The doctor said that it was 
the best thing for the baby who was terribly healthy and strong and it's
amazing how fast you forget the pain.  I stayed 10 days in the hospital to
get my strength back (12 days for the caesarian).

Boy was I hungry after that.  The microwave lasagna they served me at 10:30
that night tasted better than any gourmet French meal!

ccb

    10 days in the hospital for a section?  WOW!!!!!  Most insurance
    companies in the U.S. only give you four.  Frankly, I was glad to
    get home.
    
    Complicating my situation -- I guess I should have brought this
    up in the base note -- is that my husband's sister works for my
    OB.  Apparently they've been discussing me quite a bit.  In fact,
    my dr. even said to my S-I-L, "What would *you* do?"  To which
    she replied, "If I know Kate, if there's even the remotest possibility
    of pushing that kid out, she'll push it out."  In fact, S-I-L said
    that if I hadn't said I thought it was unnecessary, my OB probably
    would have scheduled a section for the first week of June.  He likes
    to schedule sections at 38 weeks, and I objected for a number of
    reasons taht I won't go into here. 
      
    So now I'm feel ing really conflicted.  I like my S-I-L, and if my
    dr is going to discuss me with anyone besides me, I'd just as soon
    it was her.  On the other hand, I feel like I don't have any privacy
    at all!  So between that and not being sure how this kid is going to
    be born, and what kind of plans should I make, etc., etc., etc.,
    I feel like I'm going crazy, but on the other hand, I don't think I
    could get that lucky.
    

    
    The fact that you're even asking these questions says that you at least
    have an interest in trying to have this baby naturally. Talk to another
    professional (not sil - she's too close ) and go to the library and
    read up on VBAC. Then tell your doctor it is your wish to try. It's
    your body and your baby and YOU call the shots with his advice and
    expertise. He's a doctor not God. Be firm and show resolve and you'll
    be ok. One more thing, be prepared for your doctor to give you an
    ultimatum - His way or find another doctor. 
    
     

    I agree with 14...it's your body and your baby...you should be calling
    the shots.  I had both of babies natural, and I called all of the shots
    with the doctor.  I had alot of problems carrying my oldest son (he's
    now 4 and 1/2), and was confined to bed the last 9 weeks.  When I went
    to my OB I told her that is I had to have a C section, I didn't want to
    lay in labor for 24 hours and then have it decided.  So we came to the
    agreement that we would not go past 8 hours.  Well, when delivery day
    (or should I say night...he was born at 3:30am) came, I was only in
    labor for three and a half hours.  I was really lucky.  With my second,
    he just turned a year old this week, I was never really in labor, but
    was in the hospital for 10 minutes when he was born.  
    
    But anyway, stand firm with your doctor...you are the only one who
    knows how you feel.  Plus, you are the one who is paying the bills.
    
    Good luck to you...Say calm and have a safe delivery.
    
    
    
    Lillian
    

    
    	I have a question.  Did anyone see, about two weeks ago, a segment
    	that Good Morning American had on statistics on VBAC's?  It was
    	quite alarming.  They mentioned that there was a study of 20
    	females who had VBAC's.  Of the 20, 16 women had complications,
    	i.e., their uterus burst, major bleeding, etc.  They also mentioned
    	that having the bikini cut was not as safe as the abdomen cut. 
    	That women should throughly discuss complications of VBAC delivery 
    	with their OB before delivery.
    
    	Only thing though, it was a very low # of women that they did 
    	the study on.  I didn't catch it all, I was trying to get ready
    	for work...and get the little Munchkin ready for daycare...
    
    	I'm not pregnant, but am scared to death about a VBAC (I was
    	in labor 64 hours with Matthew, and then had a CS).....has
    	anyone else heard any statistics on VBAC's?
    
    	Ellen

    Yes, and they were completely contradictory to what this program
    showed. 
    
    One UMASS study of 200 VBACs found exactly no complications from
    the previous c-section, although about 75? of the women had to
    have a c-section again for other reasons.
    
    I've got an article at home.  I'll see if I can find it tonight
    and post it tomorrow.
    
    --bonnie

    
    Anyone heard from Kate?   Just wondering if she was able to have
    the VBAC and  wanting to hear something about her new addition!
    
    cj/

    I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Our daughter, Hollis Maclean (Holly) Nelson, was born at 8:20
    a.m. on June 24, after 12 hours of uneventful labor.  I went to
    the hospital a little after 6 a.m., got some Demerol (which never
    worked because she arrived so fast), threw up the Mexican food
    I'd eaten the night before, and had our little miss at 8:20.
    Called the folks from the delivery room and everything.  Went
    home on Wednesday morning.  Nearly died from the hemhorroids!
    
    Thanx to all who offered support/prayers/etc.  I will be glad to
    offer same to all who need/want it.  Please send mail.
    
    Proud VBAC mommy,
    Kate

    Congratulations to all of you!!!!!!I know you must be very proud of you
    little Holly....
    
    I'm glad you came through ok!!!!!!
    
    
    Lillian

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes
to remain anonymous.

      Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

****************************************************************

    I am interested in hearing experiences regarding VBAC deliveries.
    There are other VBAC notes in Parenting-V2 but since this medical
    procedure is becoming more and more common, I thought there would
    be new information available.

    I am due this spring with my second.  My first delivery was a 
    C-section due to the position of the baby.  My doctor is
    encouraging a VBAC birth and I'm all for it - but I'm also scared
    that I'll go through hours of labor and end up having surgery anyway.

    Any personal experiences or books you have read that could help
    minimize this anxiety would be appreciated.

    Thank you.

    Re: 21.
    
    I just delivered my second baby via VBAC.  I highly recommend going
    this route.  I understand your fears since I had many of my own. One of
    the things I did to prepare myself before the delivery was to read
    anything I could find regarding VBAC's and ask my doctor lots of
    questions.  
    
    It was my idea to go VBAC if I was able and my doctor was a bit
    hesitant but she supported my wishes.  She explained the risks to me
    but not any of the benefits.  I checked with the hospital to see if
    they had any type of class/course on VBAC's.  They didn't at the time
    but created one at my request.  I believe they are now considering
    offering the course since the requests for one is gaining. The nurse
    that created the course did an excellent job.  I learned alot and felt
    much better about my decision.  One of the most important things she
    told me was that all of the girls she talked to had the same fear of
    failure and have that fear until they pass the point where they needed
    the C the first time..
    
    Having a VBAC was one of the most satisfying things I have ever
    accomplished.  I have to admit that I did at one point during labor
    consider having another C. It was extremely important that I at least
    tried a vaginal delivery.  I'm glad I did.
    
    Please do not hesitate to contact me off line if you have any specific
    questions.  I love to talk about my experience.
    
    Angie
    DTN 422-7265.

    I am due in 5 weeks with my second.  My first was an emergency
    C-section, due to fetal distress.  I was almost two weeks overdue
    and an ultrasound revealed no amniotic fluid and a lethargic baby
    (both signs that the placenta isn't doing very well).  So I was 
    induced.  After 7-8 hours, he started having fetal distress (his
    heart rate dropped drastically between contractions).  During the
    second episode of heart rate dropping, my doctor suggested since I wasn't 
    making a lot of progress anyway, that we do a csection.  He was born 
    13 minutes from the time I said yes.  And he had meconium staining, wasn't 
    breathing (the APGAR score was 2), and required spinal tap and blood 
    cultures to check for infections.  I didn't mind having a c section to
    have a healthy baby, but the recovery was harder than I expected.  I 
    remember waking up two, even three months later to go to the bathroom or 
    feed the baby, and not being able to just sit up.  I had to roll onto my 
    side and push up on an elbow, etc. because of discomfort.   
    
    Anyway, where I am going with this is that I want to pursue a VBAC. 
    Not to the point of endangerment (I was close enought to that last
    time) but I certainly won't have a planned cesarian without breach,
    etc.  I have taken the VBAC course at St Vincent Hospital (Worcester,
    MA) and the most noteable thing I learned is how many c sections are
    performed! Overall in the US it is around 30%.  (This figure varies
    geographically.)  St V's has the lowest C Section rate in the state of 
    Massachusetts (currently 12%, down from 15% 2 years ago when my son
    was born, with a goal of <10%).  The ACOG (I think that's the AMerican
    council of ob's and gynecologists) think that the rate should be around
    7%.  It seems to me from what I learned that many (read that MANY) 
    sections are performed that are not entirely necessary.  In my case, I was 
    clearly at risk for a c section, but my doctor didn't just schedule it - I 
    was induced and had a chance to try and deliver vaginally.  If my son had 
    been just a bit stronger, he probably would have been.  But many doctors 
    would not want to have to monitor a patient for the extensive hours that 
    an induced labor can be (when the baby isn't engaged etc.) when a
    section is possible anyway.
    
    I also want to say that much of the information I read in earlier
    replies sounded somewhat out of date, or being supplied by doctors
    who do not strongly favor VBAC's.  Examples: 1)you do not need to be
    on an IV (or even have a heparin lock inserted) because of the VBAC
    status (you may for other reasons).  2)You CAN be induced even if you
    have had a section. 3) Depending on the type of incision you had in
    the precious c-section, you have no more chance of rupturing your
    uterus than a prior vaginal mother does.  4) Unless other reasons
    indicate it is necessary, your doctor doesn't have to be at your
    bedside for the full labor.   (the list goes on ...)
    
    Learn about VBAC - talk with your doctor - and ask questions.  
    There is a lot of very positive information about VBAC out there - 
    get in touch with a VBAC training person and learn about it.  Find 
    a doctor who supports VBAC, and ask their c-section rate and the
    rate for the hospital you are using.  That will probably more than
    the overall stats indicate your chances of success.  If you want to 
    do a VBAC and find your doctor unsupportive, get a second opinion.
    (How many people would have heart or other type of surgery without getting
    a second opinion?)
    
    The teacher who taught our VBAC class had an interesting example about
    c section rates.  A hospital in Worcester closed awhile back, and
    their OB department merged with St. Vincent's.  That hospital had
    a rate of 31% cesarians.  St Vincent's had a rate in the low teens.
    The doctors from the other hospital were put on notice that if their
    rates weren't lowered within six months, they would be dropped from the
    staff.  Amazingly, their rates dropped.  How come suddenly their
    patients were able to deliver vaginally?  Probably expectations and 
    education of their doctors.