Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I hadn't heard about Lyme disease ticks in sand, but I think that you
    need to buy "special" sand because of asbestos dust which may be in
    lumber store sand.
    

    When we were growing up, our sandbox was a huge truck (or tractor?) tire.
    It was wonderful!  It was adequate size for several kids to play in at
    once, and it was also good for walking around on (and jumping from edge
    to edge).  We didn't have a cover.  I think we got it through my dad's
    connections with road construction companies.  It lasted forever, and
    required no maintenance.  This is probably no help to you, but I had
    fun remembering it!

			cheryl

    I built one last year that is quite a bit bigger than 8X8, but then we
    have 3 kids of our own (curently) and 4 down the street who play in it
    all the time. I got sand from a gravel yard. Fairly fine sand, about
    1600 lbs. of it. (And shoveled it all 2X...into the car and back out!
    It did take several trips...). Kids have had no problem with this sand,
    but it is coarser than the stuff in toy stores. Also *MUCH* cheaper
    than stuff in toy stores. Think I paid less than $10 for all the sand.
    If you are planning on having other children, or if neighborhood
    children may be using the sandbox in future years, 8X8 is really not so
    awful big. You get all those toys, trucks, shovels, etc. in there, and
    there's hardly room for the kids!
    
    --dave--

    Although regular lumber will deteriorate over time, the treated
    lumber contains nasty chemicals that you won't want your kids
    exposed to. I don't know the details - I got the warning from a
    friend of mine who is a contractor. 
    
    Alice

    My son was given a Little Tykes Turtle Sandbox.  He's 18 mos. old
    and there is barely enough room for him and his toys, and 
    definitely not enough room for me to jump in and play too.
    I'd vote to go with the 8X8 sandbox for Daniela!        
    
    My husband bought sand from the hardware store labelled "Playsand"
    safe for children. FWIW.
    
    Enjoy!
    Linda

    We had the tractor-tire sandbox, too.  After we outgrew the
    sandbox age and the Tonka Trucks age, my mother turned it into a
    planter for her cactus garden.
    
    --bonnie

    Funny this should be entered, since last weeks project was to build a
    sandbox.  My husband bought a 4 x 6 foot size of regular 1/2" plywood,
    and 2 of 2x 6 x12 planks, cutting the plywood at 6 feet and the planks
    in half.  He painted them with 2 coats of leftover latex housepaint and
    it looks terrific!  The jury is still out on what we'll fill it with,
    probably something from Toys R Us or the new HQ hardware store in
    Westboro.  We found their prices better than most other places.
    
    For a cover we plan on getting some 1", I think it's called, fir
    stripping. it reminds me of extra long yardsticks, and stapling some
    real heavy clear plastic to it, and we'll wait and see, if it seems
    like it may blow off we'll get creative and find some way to hold it
    down, probably some hook and eyes between the "cover" and box.
    
    I'm the one pusing for a cover, first to keep it from being the world's
    larges litter box, and second to keep it dry.
    
    The total cost was probably under $20, and it blends in nicely since we
    used the house paint.
    
    Lyn

Using 1 x 6s seems a bit small to me.  The sides tend to get
banged, kids tend to sit on the sides, and there is a fair amount
of outward pressure, so I'd go with 2" nominal.  Also I'd go with
10" or 12" nominal width; with 6", I would think a lot of sand
would escape.

Be careful of landscape timbers.  Many of them are not planed, so
they are a source of splinters.  Nowadays, virtually all of them
are pressure treated, so take that into account if you are like .4,
and it bothers you.  The standard way of cutting a landscape timber
is with a chain saw.  Even if you can rent or borrow one, it's very
hard to make an accurate cut.  

I used three 8' pressure treated 2 x 10s.  I cut one of the  2 x
10s in half, so that the approximate dimension of the sandbox was
4 x 8.  To assemble the corners, I nailed the 2 x 10s into a 2 x
4 (so that the nails don't go into end grain), then covered the
corners with triangular shaped scraps of wood.

If you don't want to use pressure treated lumber, you can use
regular lumber, and it should last for a few years at least.   You
can extend the life by doing what you can to separate the lumber
from the ground, for example by putting sheet plastic between the
wood and the ground.

I got our the sand at a sand and gravel company.  It takes a LOT
of sand to fill even a 4 x 8  sandbox to a reasonable level.  4 x
8 x 6" is 16 cubic feet.  I'm not sure how much the bags of
"playground sand"  hold, but I'd be very surprised if you could
fill it with less than 25 or 30 bags.  It took me several 30 gallon
garbage barrels.  I've never heard about the issue with deer ticks.

Good luck and have fun.  Sandboxes are great entertainment, and it
is a project even a klutz like me can do without messing up too
badly.

Clay

    
    re:.1   
    
    I really can't believe that there is asbestos dust in "regular"
    (pool grade, or whatever) sand!  I believe there is a concern
    with this sand about potential inhalation of dust (which might
    be linked to a condition called abestosis or some such), but
    I really don't think there's abestos dust in normal sand.  
    Look at all the public parks and playgrounds that don't use
    "clinical" sand.
    
    As far as sandboxes go, I also think 6X6 is a good size and
    that's what we built.   We used 4 - 2"X10" pressure treated
    boards each 8' long.  Cut 2' off each for the corner seats.
    We just use a tarp for the cover (held down with bricks) for 
    now...left it off one night, and sure enuf, the neighbor cat
    took right to it!
    
    cj/   

    re 9 and public playgrounds
    
    I am currently involved in building a playground for our town, and the
    architect requires "play sand", not regular sand.  (By the way, we need
    12 tons of the stuff)
    
    As I said in my reply, I was not sure if it was asbestos dust, oir
    something similar, but there was definitely a problem of that type with
    regular masonry sand you get at a hardwarte store.
    
    Susan

    re: .7
    
    Lyn,
    
    What did you use the plywood for in your sandbox design?   A bottom?
    A cover?
    
    Carol

    I goofed a couple times in my previous reply, the board before cutting
    was 4 x 8, not 4x6 as I said.  And I went home last night a measured
    the side boards, they are more like 10 or 12" high, and 2" thick. Sorry
    for the misinformation.
    
    On the way in I took a look at the school playground near our house, it
    appears that what they have done is basically dig a hole in the ground
    about a foot to foot and a half deep, lined it with very heavy black
    plastic and put 4 small landscape timbers in the ground to anchor the
    plastic down, and then filled it with sand.  It does have a nice
    "natural" look about it.  They have also done much the same thing in a
    little large scale and put old small car size tires, painted in bright
    colors, laying on their sides, sort of a hop-scotch thing made of
    tires. 
    
    Just some pre-coffee thoughts
    Lyn

   re: somewhere back there, about covering the sand box
   
   Just a comment - be careful with a heavy plastic cover attached to
   a ferring strip frame.  I've seen one like that, and you need to be
   careful to make it strong enough to handle water.  The one I saw
   was just thrown together (not very well, either), and it didn't
   handle bad weather too well - the plastic started to sag when it
   rained, and then he had this large sheet of plastic in a frame
   (that couldn't really handle the weight of the water) that was full
   of water and leaves.  It was interesting watching him try to get it
   empty and still keep the sand fairly dry.
   
   re: plastic turtle sandbox - I've seen that one too, and I didn't
   think it was that small.  I saw a couple of 2 year olds playing
   fairly well in it.  It was too small for any more than 2 kids,
   really, but it wasn't too bad for 1-2 kids.  Not sure about adding
   adults, though...  I guess it depends on your style... :-)
   
   - Tom
   

We just bought the FP sandbox (on sale at Caldor's).  I, too, wanted a
homemade, wooden one UNTIL Jim reseeded some 2-year-old pressure-treated
landscaping lumber logs which were being consumed by termites and carpenter
ants! ... yes, pressure treated wood!

As for sand, I got 50# bags at Agway ... $3+ each and the box took 4 bags.
It was "sifted, clean, CHILD'S_PLAY sand" from the Carribean -- nice and
fine and bleached (only Carribean sand Juli will ever see!) ... NO chemicals,
NO fleas (at purchase, that is!) ...  Well worth the $14 (with tax).

Thank goodness for the covers!  Not only does it keep the cats out, it
keeps most of the rain out ... AND I hose off more bird splats than anything
... I swear they dive-bomb the bright colored lid as if it were a bull's
eye!

The lid is split down the center and provides added play space ... kid's
build castles in the lids (and then just flip the lid over ... sand back in
the box -- well, mostly ...).  I counted six kids in Juli's sandbox one
day last week  (and six more on the swingset!) ... and everyone got along
just fine, too!

FP has my vote!
Dottie

PS:
I really chuckled one day last week, I got home about 3:30 pm and a litte
girl (Cindy?, age 5'ish) said "is Juli home?"  I said "no, Honey, she
goes to school and comes home with her Daddy around 5:30 pm ... why don't
you come back then ..."  and she said "well, if I can't come back, is it
OK if I call her?"

Goodness, I needed a good laugh ... Juli's 20 months old ... now she talks, 
BUUTTT, I can't see Juli carrying on a conversation ON THE PHONE with 
one of the neighborhood kids ... or not quite yet anyways!

    
    
    If you live near Souther NH, the cheapest place we found for "play
    sand" was Builders Square on RT 101A in Nashua.
    
    

    Might as well throw in my two cents here too.
    
    I built a sandbox for my son about three years ago.
    The sides are pressure treated 2x12s, a little over
    7 feet long (because of having to trim some 8 foot
    boards).  Along the top I attached pressure treated
    decking to serve as a place to sit.
    
    The sandbox is filled with free sand from our local
    sand and gravel company.  There is, as far as I could
    discover, no need for nice play sand.  But it took me
    quite a few trips to get it filled.
    
    The bottom is just a piece of heavy duty plastic, with some
    holes cut into it for drainage.  The sand is so deep that
    the kids almost never dig down that far.
    
    The top consists of three idential wooden frames with
    hardware cloth on them.  So water and snow go through
    but it all drains out the bottom through the sand
    eventually.
    
    I've got no concerns about kids being near pressure treated
    lumber.  There have been numerous tests showing that the
    chemicals stay in the wood and simply do not migrate
    anywhere.

    re: .11....We used the plywood for the bottom, and as I read on I
    realized that a few drainage holes in the bottom might be in order.  It
    was just plain, untreated 1/2" plywood.  We figured by the time we put
    two coats of latex house paint on it, it really didn't have to be
    pressure treated.
    
    Our cover design will be sort of a tic-tac-toe frame of fir strips with
    the plastic probably just stapled to it.
    
    Oh I did forget to mention that we were able to cut enough off the side
    boards to make a little triangle shaped seat for each of the four
    corners.
    
    I think we may pursue some of the suggestions to get the sand at either
    a hardware store or the sand and gravel place in town, it can't
    possibly need more than what will fit into the back of my husband's
    pickup truck.  Thanks for that idea!
    Lyn

    
    Can someone clue me in as to why a sandbox needs a bottom?  My
    husband claimed it didn't and I didn't have a good argurment,
    so ours doesn't have a bottom!
    
    Curious,  Carol

    The Box I built two years ago has been described here a few times.  PT
    2 x 12's cut to 6 feet, 1 x 6's on top as seat, large tarp with bricks
    for cover.  What hasn't been covered is the way I did the bottom.  I
    used patio blocks as a base.  I made the base larger than the box so
    that grass cutting and water drainage would be easier.  It was easy to
    make and we have had four and five chilren at a time in the box with
    room for more...
    
    
    
    Serv

    Re .18
    
    IMO, whether or not a sandbox needs a bottom is dictated
    by how deep you think the kids are going to dig.  If
    the sand is shallow and there's no bottom the kids are
    likely to start mixing dirt under the sand into the sand,
    so you'll end up with muddy sand (which some kids, of course,
    will absolutely love).  If the sand is really deep, or the
    kids are unlikely to dig down into the dirt for some other
    reason, then you probably don't need a bottom.
    Also, if the sandbox is fairly shallow, then, without a bottom,
    there's the possibility of the box getting lifted up a bit
    so that the sand flows out the bottom along the sides.
    
    When I built Tobias' sandbox, I sunk the sandbox into the
    ground a couple of inches so that sand wouldn't run out underneath
    the bottom.  The bottom was a single sheet of plastic intended
    more as a simple barrier between the sand and the dirt; Tobias
    has already dug down over a foot and found it, but knows enough
    to not rip up it up.
    
    Incidentally, if I were to build another sandbox, I'd make
    provision in it for some kind of shallow container that he
    could fill with water.

The Boston Globe handyman (Peter Hotten) suggests not using pressure-treated
lumber.  He says that PT lumber is expensive and by the time non-PT lumber
rots, the child will have outgrown a sandbox anyway...

    We finished our sandbox today, thanks to all your help.  Philip just
    called with the results.  We ended up using plain, not
    pressure-treated, 2x8's, for a 4x4 box.  Other wood was used for the
    little corner seats.  700# of sand went in, which was 2.39/50#  of play
    sand at Home Depot.  This amount was carried in a Chevy Lumina, which
    did sink quite low.  
    
    The amazing thing was Daniela's reaction, which prompted Philip's phone
    call just now.  She got in and hasn't gotten out for an hour and a
    half.  She is lying down in it, dancing in it, letting the sand run all
    over her, under her.  The way it's described, we're talking about the
    most sensual experience the child has ever had!  Philip asked her if
    she liked her sandbox.  She got up and did this little dance she does
    for when she sees me at the end of the day.  A dance of happiness.  
    
    I think it's a hit.  The extremity of the reaction of this 20 month old
    makes me want to rush right home to see it, but it's getting on for
    naptime.  Hope she chooses to repeat some of the joy later this
    evening.  Thanks again for all the help.