Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Lyn,
    
    Re the two specific dogs you have in mind...
    
    any dog from an abused home as the potential to be a "problem", and
    huskies can sometimes be aggressive.
    
    I have a friend who got a retired greyhound, then had a baby, and the
    dog has had some problems adjusting.  I don't know if this would have
    been the same if they'd gotten the dog first, though.  She loves the
    dog.
    
    Generally older dogs have a tougher time adjusting than kids do.
    
    The "conventional wisdom" is a Lab or Golden Retriever for kids.  We
    have a black lab who is incredible with both my three year old and six
    month old, so I'd support a Lab.
    
    Susan

    I don't have a dog (yet), but I just read somewhere (Parents?  Working
    Mother?) that THE best dog for kids is a female golden retriever.  My
    neighbor has one (her kids are 8 and 11), and the dog seems to bark a
    lot, but is very friendly and gentle.  I think that same article
    recommended NOT getting any dog until the kids are kindergarten
    age and are old enough to understand how to take care of a dog (Marc,
    for example, at 18 mos., gets a lot of pleasure out of squeezing
    and stepping on our cat :-)  We had to make a rule that we only wave
    and say hi to the cat, no touching!)

I have two dogs; one is a standard poodle (10 years old today), the other is
a Rhodesian Ridgeback (5 years old).

Both love children.  The poodle, being a little elderly, is a little touchy.
She has always been shy. We caution people that she shouldn't be cornered and 
we make sure no one can, both children and adults.  She has always just gotten 
up and left if she feels crowded; we just want to make sure she can.  At this
age, her arthritis can be hurting her, and so she may not feel like playing.
For some unknown reason, she's afraid of men; I bought her from a man.

The Ridgeback breeder told me that altho she's got a very nice, gentle 
personality, she's touchy for a standard poodle. (standard poodles are supposed 
to be pretty mellow and good with children.  They are also very smart, which I 
can attest to).

The Ridgeback is so mellow - a friend's one year old recently pulled JP's
lips up so he could look at JP's teeth.  JP just lay there and let him. He is
great with kids. (BTW, JP is a neutered male and weighs about 75 pounds).

My experience with my dogs and observing other people's dogs is that if the dog
is well-trained and knows who is in charge (it must be you), then there
aren't problems.  But, even tho I trust my dogs, I don't leave Elise alone with 
them.

BTW, when my poodle is gone, we'll be getting another Ridgeback.

    I'd be nervous about a husky, especially one that had been abused.
    
    With other noters, I agree about the retriver type dogs, and
    would also suggest the shepherd family.
    
    Bonnie

    I don't know about huskies or greyhounds, but do know alot about
    golden retreivers.
    
    We've got a 5 1/2 year old, 95-100 pound male golden retreiver, Max,
    who is so mellow and patient with my kids (4 and 2) that people are
    amazed.  He has been used as a horse, stepping stool, pillow, playmate,
    almost anything you can think of. Now that they are older, the kids
    make up games 'with' him instead of just 'using' him; a slight, but
    important, difference.   If he gets tired of the kid-play,
    he just gets up and walks away to the corner or the front door.
    However, he is extrememly mellow by nature and exceptionally
    well-trained by my husband.   Almost the only time Max barks is when
    someone comes in the yard who's car he doesn't recognize or when a 
    dog he doesn't like comes around.  Max was just over 1 year old when
    we brought Jessica home from the hospital.  He became very protective
    of her from the start and adjusted quite nicely to the changes she
    wrought, with some extra effort on our part to give him attention.  
    
    On the other hand, my husbands parents have Max's mother (who is also
    very mellow and getting older) and his sister (who is flighty,
    high-strung and very jumpy).  The sister usually gets put outside or
    downstairs when we visit, with short times with the kids.
    My husbands sister has Max's brother (keeping them all in the family :)
    who is very excitable and jumpy and has to be kept away from almost all
    people when we visit.
    
    What was my point?  Oh yeah.   Even though a breed is known as having 
    a particular trait (retreiver and children), you still have the 
    personality of the animal and level of training to consider.
    
    And I wouldn't trade my first 'baby' for the world and we are talking
    about getting a female retreiver or labrador puppy in the spring.
    
    Hope that helps, but I'm not sure how much.
    
    Donna
    

    I just recently read an interesting article on gentle dogs.
    I think I remember the article naming the "Akita" (sp?) as the BEST dog
    with kids.  They are also either THE or one of THE oldest breeds
    around.  They are also very expensive.
    
    Andrew got to meet one one time.  The owner actually brought the dog to
    day care for the kids to see, and believe me, this dog convinced me
    that she'd be a perfect kid dog.  With all the little ones huddling
    around her, she kept her cool; let the kids pet her and one or two of
    the kids stuck their faces right in her face and she didn't become
    alarmed at all (Not a good thing for kids to do, we have to remind
    Andrew not to do that quite a bit).  She got my vote.
    
    We have a shepard-collie.  Spiro is very good with Andrew.  He'll let
    Andrew know when Andrews gone over the line by either a subtle groan or
    by licking Andrews face alot, thus, herding Andrew away from him!
    
    BTW, Spiro was very easy to train.  It is relatively easy to train
    german shepards.  Ask a trainer or a groomer about temperments in
    certain dogs, they should know.
    
    
      Nancy
    

    I believe your best bet is to get a puppy, not an older dog.  That way
    you can be sure to train it well.
    
    A few caveats are in order:
    
    Puppies make a mess on the floor until they are trained.  If you have a
    youngster, he/she shoule be old enough to avoid the messes.  Time to
    housebreak varies with breed, temperment, your training skills, and
    your time available for training.  Plus can YOU handle the cleanup
    aggravation and your young child?
    
    Any dog, any breed, requires a great deal of attention and training to
    get it fully trained, gentle, and reliable.  Most dog owners never get
    the hang of it.  It is a big commitment in time, physical energy, and
    emotions.  it is very gratifying, but be prepared.  The more you put
    into your dog, the more you can expect.  Can you handle this AND a
    young child, AND a job at the same time?
    
    They are nothing like cats when it comes to training.
    
    Laura
         

    A friend of mine who has trained dogs of his own once recommended
    not a puppy but a young dog, around a year old, young enough to
    still be enthusiastic and adaptable and friendly, but old enough
    to be trained and to have calmed down a lot so s/he'd be less
    likely to accidentally knock the child over, etc.
    
    I guess that does assume you have a reliable source that you can
    trust to have trained the dog well.
    
    --bonnie

    A few more thoughts:
    
    I'm fairly certain CANINE had a discussion on this topic.  Many CANINE
    participants have children themselves and understand the issues well.
    
    Golden retrievers CAN be crazy wild if they are not trained well and if
    they don't receive lots of attention.  That's probably true for any
    breed.  Getting a certain breed is no guarantee.  For instance, we have
    a Rhodesian Ridgeback and he is EXCELLENT with young kids.  We've
    trained the bejeebers out of that dog and he still resists commands
    fairly often.  That's the tradeoff, Rhodesians are good with kids but
    bright and stubborn.  No treat when he WON't come when you call him at
    6 am in your bathrobe and its 25 degrees outside.  
    
    Raising a dog is like raising a toddler.  Satisfying but very time
    consuming.  And you must have the knack of dominating the critters.
    
    Laura

    re .3, you mention a breed "Rhodesian Ridgeback" since I'm not familiar
    with this , what is it?  Size, traits etc.
    
    Thanks
    Lyn

    I'd agree with two comments made so far ... getting an abused dog is an
    unsafe bet at best.  Stay away from it with small kids.  Also, goldens
    can be a hand full if not properly trained.
    
    I guess it comes down to the fact that you have to be sure the animal,
    what ever kind you buy, has a non-agressive temperment.  Getting a
    puppy, you really don't know what the dogs temperment is ... so it is
    somewhat of a crap shoot.  
    
    I have three dogs.  One is a greyhound.  She has a great temperment and
    is a real baby.  The other two are muts - also good pets.   One I got
    as a puppy, the other two as older dogs.  I had a better idea what
    the older dogs were like as far as temperment.  the puppy was a
    complete suprise - but turned out anyway.  By the way, one was four
    years old when I got her and you CAN teach an old dog new tricks.  
                                                                       
    It really comes down to this ... you can get any type of dog you want
    if it is PROPERLY trained.  Do not allow the animal to show agressive
    behavior without being punished in a timely manner.  Monitor the dog
    when it first comes into your home and do not allow it to run free in
    your neighborhood when you are not home.  In any case, do not allow
    your animal to develop bad habits and you will have a friend for life,
    one you can trust and count on for protection.   Watch the interaction
    between the kids and the dog.  
    
    From a practical side, I find that "muts" have fewer medical problems
    then do pure breds.  My brothers raised dalmations and, as I stated, I
    have a greyhound.  In every case, our vet bills were higher with the
    pure breds.  This is my opinion only and can not be backed up with
    facts.
    
    You can pick up a greyhound from an organization called "Greyhounds as
    Pets".  They take the track animals that have raced and give them away
    to qualified owners.  All you have to do is promise to sterilize them
    and take good care of them.  You also have to house break them as they
    have lived in cages during their racing career.  I think they make nice
    pets, but it is a personal choice. Oh yea, they have very short hair
    which makes for easy clean up.  Shaggy dogs are nice, but people will
    always be able to tell you own dogs because of the hair on your
    clothes.   Also, you have to be careful of cats around greyhounds until
    the hound gets used to the cat.
    
    Lastly, I'd like to make a plug for the Human Society.  Many times,
    buying a dog from a pet store, you get an animal raised in a puppy farm. 
    Many times the conditions and breeding technics of the owners are less
    than desirable.  Getting a pet from a shelter gives you the
    satisfaction of knowing you have most likely saved that animal from
    being destroyed and it teaches your children some valuable lessons about
    life.   Selection is never a problem, unfortunately.  Too many animals
    are needlessly destroyed because their owners did not get them
    sterilized and did not want to keep the results.
    
    Good luck on your choice. 
                                         

    
      I have had several diffrent kinds of dogs. Shepards, Labs, Mutts, you
    name it, we brought it home. (Bless my folks!!)
    Now that I have a family of my own, I also wanted a dog around. My
    husband came home one day with a English Mastiff. Much to my surprise,
    she is the best dog I've ever owned!! She is so gentle, and
    affectionate, it still surprises me. My kids are 11, 18 months and 7
    months. As in a previous note, Danny at 18 months uses Pritzy as a step
    stool, a pillow, a horsey and anything else he can!! Michael at 7
    months seems to take pleasure in pulling her ears!! Danny even went so
    far as to pull a bone out of her mouth. She just looked at me to get it
    back for her. 
      As far as protection, if the babies are out on the deck, and someone,
    friend or fo, comes to the gate, she will not let them on the deck
    untill I tell her it is o.k.. And if my husband isn't home, she stands
    between me and whoever is in the house untill they leave! The funny
    thing about this is she has had NO training!! Way back when people used
    these dogs as "Nannys" in england. They do not bite. 
      They are known to stand on an intruder and bark untill there master 
    calls them off. 
     Now here is the trickey part. She stands about 6' tall on her hind
    legs and weighs 155 lbs., but she doesn't know it. (so we don't tell
    her!)   
     They are the ideal pets if you have a big yard. She doesn't like much
    exercise, and sleeps alot. She loves the kids, and will play with them,
    but when they are done, so is she. Very very low key!!
      As you can probably tell, she is a very important part of the family
    and I wouldn't trade her for the world. We are even talking about
    getting a puppy!
     Well enough!! 
     Good luck! 
     CHERYL

    You can probably get any sort of dog as a puppy you want, as long as
    you socialize, socialize, socialize the dog around people, pets, and
    kids.  I have a Chow who has been perfect with both of my kids, and
    with children who know how to treat dogs.  She gets along fine with our
    cats and rabbits, although she will chase a strange animal out of the
    yard.
    
    Chows have a reputation for being aggressive, and one person dogs.  My
    experience is that if they are brought up well, they are just as mellow
    as any other breed.  She is pickier about behavior of other peoples
    kids, than mine, but will leave the area where the kids are if one is
    rougher than he/she is supposed to be with Iris.  She has also been one
    heck of a deterrent to people who don't know her, and know the
    reputation of chows.
    
    Remember, when you get a dog, you are buying into a pet that will
    require a lot more work than a cat.  Many of the hunting breeds need
    several miles of exercise daily (great for a fitness program) and you
    need to get them out with people, kids and animals to reinforce good
    behavior.  If you haven't had a dog before (or had unsatisfactory
    results) get obedience training so you can learn to handle both the dog
    and yourself with the dog.  I can speak from experience that an
    untrained dog of any breed is a handful.
    
    Meg

    We have a Rottweiler, which is a German breed, large head like a St.
    Bernard and short-hair and coloring of a Doberman.  He was 5 when Ryan
    was born 3 years ago and is truly a gentle giant (130 lbs).  If raised 
    and trained well, I would highly recommend  this breed with children.
    And, he also cleans the floor when Ryan's done eating :-)
    

    One other point regarding socialization of dogs...it is important that
    a dog who will be living with people receive plenty of "people"
    socialization time between 8 and 12 weeks old.  If they don't, no
    matter how much you train them later, you will not get the type of
    people-devoted, authority respecting dog that you want.  So, its
    important that if you're not picking up a puppy at 8 weeks old, to
    check out the type of experience its had.  This is one reason why pet
    shop dogs are usually not great choices.
    
    Susan

    I agree with all the comments here, the key is in the training.  Most
    any dog - even the burley Rottweiler, can get along fine with children,
    if they are trained well.  Mutts make wonderful dogs, too, and I agree
    that mutts don't have as many medical problems are pure breeds.  What-
    ever you decide - or any noters here - I strongly recommend AGAINST
    buying any dog/puppy from a pet store (you know the type-- the small
    shops in the mall).  And to back up what was also said earlier, there
    are millions of dogs and cats in Humane Society shelters waiting for a
    loving home.  
    
    Many of the homeless animals in shelters waiting for a family to love
    are already socialized-- they have already lived with families with
    children, etc., and would be prime candidates for houses with children. 
    Alot of times the people at the shelter will know the history and
    background of the pet and can tell you specifically "This dog would be
    great in a family with children," or, they may tell you the opposite.  
    I've heard of cases where the family acquired too many pets and one day
    decided there are too many so one has to go.  There are cases where for
    some reason the family must move and cannot take the pets with them. 
    There are all sorts of reasons why a family pet may one day be without
    a home-- and I won't comment on my personal feelings on the subject. 
    But the point is, you can call and find that there are pure breeds and
    mutts who came from families and who would love to go home to another
    family with children.
    
    CANINE also has an adoption note - 683.
    
    Now if we were to continue the conversation around peoples' attitudes
    about which breeds are good with children, I betcha most of us have
    some fond childhood memories.  I grew up with dogs, they were all
    "mutts" in that none of them were purebreeds.  All of them, save one,
    were dogs who wandered into our lives one way or another and needed a
    home.  All of them were outstanding protectors...  One in particular I
    can remember was mostly shetland sheepdog (collie) and part something-
    or-another.  Anyway, my mom could always tell whose house I was playing
    in because that dog would lay on their front lawn until I came out.  He
    went wherever I did and was very protective and gentle at the same
    time.
    
    I/we currently have two four-legged children with tails.  They are both
    pure bred collies - adopted from shelters.  And some day if we are
    blessed with children, I'm confident that they will be loving, protec-
    tive and patient.
    
    Good luck to anybody who is thinking of adding a pet to their family. 
    They bring great joy and love, but they are like another child and
    should be afforded as much attention and love as you can spare. 
    Lastly, I hope that anybody who considers a pet will consider that pet
    as a family member for life.
    
    Sorry to have rambled...  My love of dogs gets me carried away.  
    
    Rgds,                                     
    marcia

    I, too, echo the caution against the abused huskie for two reasons. 
    First, abuse can set up a behaviour pattern in even a very young dog or
    pup.  Second, huskies are a bit more aggressive breed.  
    
    We have two dogs, who were with us long before John Michael came.  One
    is a very old, arthritic neutered dachshund and the other is a 5 year
    old Brittany bitch.  The Brittanys have a personality akin to the
    Golden Retriever - most of the sporting breeds are very mellow dogs and
    the females are usually very compliant and anxious to please their
    owners.  They are also very good with children.  The Brittanys are
    smaller than the Goldens - usually coming in at about 20 - 21 inches at
    the shoulder and about 30 - 35 pounds.  Meaning they won't eat you out
    of house and home.  They also have *no tail* (or a stub) - meaning that
    your coffee table contents stay in tact when doggie comes passing
    through the living room.  Our bitch is very good in the house and
    fairly content in our small back yard, with an occcasional run at the
    park.  She was a little offended when JM came home from the hospital,
    because her place as the baby was usurped, but all was quickly
    forgiven!  Let me know if you are interested and I can check out some
    breeders in your area (I am active in our local Brittany club in
    Northern Calif).
    
    Cathy
    WR1FOR::BREAZEACA
    

Kal Kan offers a service to help you determine what dog might be
right for you and your family.  It's called Pedigree Selectadog.

Complete this questionnaire, marking an X in one box only
for each of the 12 questions. Send the completed form to:

PEDIGREE SELECTADOG
3250 E. 44th Street
Vernon, CA 90058-0853

    
    ******************************************************************
	            Pedigree Selectadog Questionnaire
    ******************************************************************
	
    	Please describe your activity level.
	[] Not very active-I take it easy!
	[] I'm moderately active
	[] Very active-I'm always on the move
	
	How old is your youngest child?
	[] I have no children       [] 5-12 years
	[] Younger than 5 years	    [] Older than 12
	
	Certain dogs need more area to play. 
	How many rooms are in your home?
	[] One          [] 4-5    
	[] 2-3	     	[] More than 5
	
	How big is your yard for your dog to exercise?
	[] I don't have a yard	      [] Medium-some space to run
	[] Small-little space to run  [] Large, with lots of room 
	
	How close are you to public areas or parks to walk your dog?
	[] 5 mins. away		[] At least 15 mins.
	[] About 10 mins.	[] More than a 20-mins. walk
	
	Generally, how much company will your dog have during the day?
	[] Less than 2 hrs.	[] More than 6 hrs.
	[] About 2-6 hrs.	[] The entire day
	
	Why do you want a dog?
	[] I want protection	   [] I'm accustomed to having a dog
	[] Companionship indoors   [] I'd just like a "warning" bark
	   and outside
	
	How big do you want your dog to be?
	[] Toy		[] Small	[] Medium
	[] Large	[] Giant
	
	How much would you be willing to spend on food for 
	your dog in 1 week?
	[] $1.50-$3.00	[] $5.00-$10.00
	[] $3.00-$5.00	[] It doesn't matter
	
	What type of dog's coat do you prefer?
	[] Short hair	[] A wiry coat
	[] Medium hair	[] Doesn't matter
	[] Long hair

	How often do you anticipate grooming your dog?
	[] Every day or every other day	 [] Once a month
	[] Once a week			 [] Less than once a month
	
	Have you ever had an allergic reaction to dogs?
	[] Yes       	[] No		[] I don't know
	
	Additional Comments:
	____________________________________________________
	____________________________________________________
	____________________________________________________
	____________________________________________________
	____________________________________________________
		
	Name:_______________________________________________
	Address:____________________________________________
	        ____________________________________________
	 	____________________________________________
	Date:__________
    	
    	
    	
    	

We have had 2 full Siberian Huskies for 7+ years.  I must say that I am
a bit surprised by others comments about "huskies".  These two dogs
are the *most* gentle dogs I have ever seen.  When my son was born 5
years ago we asked our vet the very question asked in the base note, since
we already had the two Siberians we were concerned.  He said  that 
pure siberians are gentle dogs and they are not known to be aggressive
towards people.  I believe him, experience has shown us that our
dogs would not hurt a human.  They are very friendly, smart,
hard working dogs. My son has tried to ride, pull the ears and tail off
our male dog, all the dog did was look at me as if to say please tell him
to stop.  Neither dog has ever snapped, barked, bitten, attacked or
otherwise harmed any children they have come in contact with.

Having said all of that I am not sure Siberians make good dogs for kids
for a completely different reason.  They are work dogs.  They love
to pull.  They rarely like to fetch or "play".  My kids do like being
pulled in a wagon or sled by our dogs but that is about as much as they
"play".  Siberians *love* to run.  They will run away at any chance
they get, which is a problem unless you build a large fenced in area.

I have seen mixed breed huskies cause problems, usually collie or shepard
mix, but *never* a pure breed husky which was treated correctly.

Any animal which has been abused by humans most likely will not make
a good pet for children, husky or otherwise

Curt (A Siberian Husky owner with kids)

most of the preceeding notes have concentrated on what type of DOG to get. I
don't have much to add since there is alot of good advice about different breeds,
etc.

But another important consideration is how your child will treat the dog.  It
isn't fair to bring a dog into a house where the children will constantly pull
it's tail, ears, wiskers, etc.  Most dogs will understand that small children
don't really understand what they are doing - but there will certainly be
a threshhold beyond which the dog will take no more.

Also - make sure the dog has a safe place to go when they tire of the
"attention".  In our house, the doggie bed is absolutely OFF LIMITS for the
baby.  When the dog has had enough "attention" from the baby, she will retreat
to the peace and quiet of her doggie bed.  I believe part of the reason that 
she tolerates as much as she does, is that she knows that she can get away if
she really wants to.

Kids and dogs really do go well together - provided they are BOTH well trained.

    From a long time dog owner and lover I can lend this bit of advice. 
    Don't buy a pure bred, if that's what you're interested in, from a pet
    store, but rather from a breeder.  Most breeders will fill you in on
    the traits, good and bad, of the particular breed they have, and can
    help you in your choice of a particular puppy based on what you want it
    for.  Also, if you look at a litter of pups for a dog, you get to meet
    the mother usually, and sometimes the father.  Temperament is often
    carried on to the pups from the mother, according to some dog experts
    I've talked to.
    
    I wished I'd known this when I got the dog I've had for eleven years
    now.  He defies the "standard" for Labs.  He's not good with children
    at all.  He will tolerate my kids now, but it's only after years of
    teaching him to.  It's really too bad, because they love the dog dearly
    but he simply doesn't much like them.  But looking back, I got him as a
    puppy and his mother was a very unfriendly dog.
    
    I also don't believe any dog can be trained to behave properly around
    children.  A friend of mine had a dog who absolutely hated children. 
    This dog, a female mix, would go out of her wasy to attack a child.  I
    can recall one day sitting in the living room with this dog, PJ was her
    name, in an adjoining bedroom gated off so she couldn't get out but
    could see out.  A kid about 6 years old walked into the living room and
    that dog almost tore the gate down trying to get that child.  She was
    finally put to sleep because of this behavior.  There was no reason for
    her to behave this way, no kids had abused her as a puppy or anything
    like that.  She simply did not like kids.
    
    My advice -- be very selective and choosy if getting a dog, young or
    mature.  And try not to fall in love with it until you see how both the
    dog and your children adapt to each other, because it may not be a good
    match!  Then again, it MAY be a good match!
    

    My apologies to the Husky contingent!  I am sure that most of the ones
    that we see racing here in the Sierras are the mixed breeds because
    none of them really looked like the dog book pictures.  See how these
    reputations get started?....
    
    Cathy-who-still-loves-her-Britt

    I agree with parents being careful of preparing and training their
    children for the presence of a pet.  Last year my friend and her
    husband brought home a puppy "for their son."  He was around 3 at the
    time.  Anyway, he was so abusive towards the poor puppy-- the last
    straw was when he pushed the puppy down the cellar stairs!  I nearly
    cried when I heard that and breathed a heavy sigh of relief when she
    told me that she had found a good home for him.
    
    My friend was also having a difficult time with the demands of a 3
    year old, and an infant in diapers - plus a new puppy who wasn't yet
    trained.
    
    They also have a cat.  During the hours that the children - especially
    the son, are around, the cat is antisocial and is not seen.  After the
    children go to bed, the cat magically reappears!
    
    

    Lyn,
    
    I have had many a dog in my lifetime, I also had an abused husky, NO NO
    NO!!! He loved to run and this was a problem for us, I had him until I
    got married and he was a big problem (Just my opinion).
    
    I now own a Springer Spaniel have had him since my children were 4 and
    5 one of the better breeds that I have owned.  This dog is a pure-bred,
    hunts with my husband in the fall and just loves to be with us when we
    are home, I have returned back to work and he stays in the cellar,
    cooler in the summer for him and does not make a sound only when he
    hears something and says get away from here.
    
    I would definately look into the Springer Spaniel breed, they are a 
    medium size dog and very affectionate.
    
    Cindy
    

    I have an 7 year old Golden Retriver and I wouldn't own any other
    kind!! I have a 4 1/2 year old son and they get along great. I was
    brought up with many different breeds of dogs and I would never own
    another dog unless it was a golden! Clancy (the golden) has taken alot
    of "child abuse" from my son and has never so much as barked at him!
    I vote for a golden. In the vet's office I did notice some information
    on a Golden Retriever Adoption place somewhere in Mass. My boss wrote
    them for info and they do require certain requirements one of them
    being a fenced in yard. Any vet should have info on this place.
    Go for the Golden's, you won't be sorry!!
    
    Andrea

    	Have to put in a word here for the greyhounds.

    	Not only do I have a retired racer but my dog was horribly abused
    by many people before I got him. Sure he took a lot of work but most of
    that work was in letting him know that he could trust us, that we would
    feed him and take care of him. Greyhounds have outstanding
    personalities.

    	He is now the absolute sweetest dog I have ever owned (I've owned
    mutts, black lab and a golden) and we are waiting until we move into a
    house to get another one.

    	We will be having a baby in September. Of course we are taking the
    usual precautions that one would take with any dog, but I have *no*
    reservations about having Dana near the child. Of course, the dog will
    need some training but not much. (my experience).

    	I got my dog through an agency that screens their greyhounds for
    temperament and fosters them in houses *before* they are allowed to go
    up for adoption. I would be very suspicious of any track that "just
    lets you bring home a retired racer", that's when you can get into
    problems.

    	I've got lots of information on greyhounds (I'm in N.H.) and if you
    want more send me mail and I'll get you a brochure.

    	Just have to add that some people are afraid of greyhounds because
    of the size and the fact that they are in the hound family and can look
    like a dobie. Most greyhounds love attention and are very gentle with
    everyone (they are trained to be still in the presence of people). If
    someone broke into my house, my dog would, no doubt, show them where
    the silver was in hopes that they would come back.

    	Best dog I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, absolutely wouldn't
    hesitate to put them with children.

    			Wendy who just loves Dana to pieces

    I believe the best bet for a first dog (especially with children) is
    definately with a puppy.  Mixed breeds are very sturdy, and you can get
    one from the animal shelter - virtually free.   To assure yourself
    of a pedigree without many of the inred faults (physical weekness, fear
    biting, deafness, or other serious problems) of any breed - and they
    all have some geneticallyl recessive faults - you would have to pay a
    great deal of money.    
    
    The key is to get a dog around 10-16 weeks old.   Make sure an adult is
    around fulltime the first 5 days to a week that the dog is home.   Then
    you can be consistant, loving, and set the longterm atmosphere for the
    pup and the child.   It also only takes about 2-3 days to housetrain a
    dog with someone watching him fulltime.  Spend this time socializing,
    and training early any behavior you might want in a dog.
    
    and have fun!
    
    
    -m

    
    ... I have had great success with each of the following 
    
    - miniature poodle (rescued from abuse)
    
    - A Great Dane (show stock - we just fell in love with him)
    
    - a Norewegian Elkhound (what can I say?  wonderful dog, who also
    	happens to be the same color as my carpet).  She's our current
    	furry family member.
    
    
    All three dogs were loved by children and adults alike in our family.  
    All three dogs were/are gentle, loving, playful, wonderful.   I feel
    that the training and environment have a lot to do with behavioral
    problems.  HOWEVER, as far as genetic traits are concerned the mut
    is still the best bet to eliminate most weaknesses (either personality
    or physical).   

A friend of mine has the above named book, written by an animal 
psychologist and expert in canine behavior.  It is sub-titled
"Choosing a breed that matches your personality, family, and 
lifestyle."  The book contains information on over 100 breeds,
concisely presented, including physical characteristics and 
temperament, and also has a section on how to use the information
to help you choose a dog.  It's published by Simon & Schuster.  My
friend found the book to be very helpful in making a choice of breed.

Sarah

    
    I'm more partial to a Norwegian Elkhound.  What an absoltely
    beautiful dog.  My Elkhound Dusty is very sweet and is good
    with people and children.  She is very sensitive though.
    If she did something wrong, like eating the cats food, she
    knows she did something wrong and her ears flip back and
    she gives you those puppy dog eyes.  Elkhounds are very territorial
    or their property.  If a squirrel goes in our yard Dusty will
    chase it away.  She is very protective too.  Her bark is worse
    than her bite though.  She's never bitten anyone in her life
    (she's 8) but she does like to bark.  I think she just tries
    to act tough even though she's a creampuff.
    
    I've had mutts, a pit bull terrior, and my favorite is the
    Elkhound.  I don't recommend a pit bull around children.
    They do not like them at all.