Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I have a heart murmur, or what is otherwise known as Mitral Valve
    Prolapse (MVP). It's a congenital heart defect that is very minor, and
    more than common.  The noise that is picked up is a "clicking" but it's
    hard to detect and so wasn't detected for years. Even now, my doctor
    can hear it once in a great while.  The actual diagnosis was confirmed
    by an ultrasound of my heart. It causes me no ill effects, though I do
    take a prophylactic dose of penicillin when I go to the dentist/and or
    any surgery (need for penicillin like this is widely debated by various
    doctors).  There's more than one lengthy discussion of MVP in
    Womannotes, among other notesfiles.
    
    Get more info from your pedi about type of heart murmur and effects.
    
    best of luck
    

A clarification to .1:  mitral valve prolapse (MVP) is *not* a heart murmur,
except in very sloppy speech.  It is sometimes referred to as a "heart click".

In a heart murmur, the valves (as I understand it) do not close fully or
properly; thus blood "swooshes" around the improper closure, creating the
"murmur".  In extreme cases, this can seriously interfere with heart function;
in other cases, it can apparently be pretty much irrelevant.

In heart click (MVP), the valves are actually a little too big, so they
"click" together when they close.  I have never heard that MVP has any
consequences for heart function.  Indeed, as Lynn notes in .1, just about
its only consequence is apparently a (very slight) increase in susceptibility
to infections of the heart valves:  thus the requirement for prophylactic
antiobiotic usage before a teeth cleaning (which can release bacteria into
the blood) and some other procedures.

	-Neil

Our daughter had a heart murmur, so consider these responses those
of an educated layman -- certainly not a doctor.

    - what causes it
    - does it go away of its own accord 

One cause is a hole in the walls (septa) between the chambers of
the heart.  The unequal pressure on the two sides of the septum
cause the blood to "leak" from the chamber having higher pressure
to the chamber having lower pressure.  Often it exists because the
heart wasn't formed properly or hasn't completed development.  And
often the hole simply closes up on its own.

Another cause, already mentioned,  is a defective valve between the
chambers of the heart; that's somewhat less likely to correct
itself.
 
    - what happens to the one case in ten which does give cause for
      concern?  

One possible result is open heart surgery.  Now that sounds
extremely serious, but in fact open heart surgery to repair a hole
in a septum is common and not considered a particularly exotic
procedure.  It can get more complicated if the heart murmur is
caused by a defective valve.  

Our daughters murmur was not diagnosed for several months, and it
was a serious one -- from the time she was about two until she had
her surgery at five, it was detectable with a Fisher-Price toy
stethoscope or even by placing your ear directly on her chest.   
The reason we were told that it wasn't diagnosed earlier was that
when a baby is first born, the pressure difference between the
chambers is not very large, but it increases as the circulatory
system develops.

One very good source of information for us was the American Heart
Association.  I assume from your node that you are not in the U.S.,
but perhaps you have some similar organization where you are.  

Best of luck, and feel free to send me VAXmail if you want to.

Clay

    
As an aside;
    
>> One possible result is open heart surgery.  Now that sounds
>> extremely serious, but in fact open heart surgery to repair a hole
>> in a septum is common and not considered a particularly exotic
>> procedure.  It can get more complicated if the heart murmur is
>> caused by a defective valve.  
    
    It CAN be serious depending on the size of the hole; but usually a
    large hole is evident right from birth. A very dear cousin of my
    has such a hole; from the day she was born -- a blue baby -- the
    doctors have not given her long to live.....what do they know! Jackie
    lives normally, does physical activities and is a healthy 37 year old
    MOTHER -- she only has to worry about getting too cold too fast and has
    naturally bluish fingernails. Surgery for her though, the few times it
    has occurred or has been considered, has been quite a serious affair.
    But she's decided she doesn't need anymore tinkering from the doctors,
    as she's just fine, and the doctors agree!
    
Monica

    My Dad had a heart murmur since he was a kid.  He is now 57 years old. 
    Early one morning last October, he woke up thinking he was having a heart 
    attack.  My mom rushed him to the hospital.  It turned out that his 
    lungs had filled with fluids because the value had weakened through 
    the years and didn't work right anymore.  They had him hooked up to a
    machine that sucked all the fluids out of his lungs.  Then he had to
    have surgery to replace the valve with an artificial one.  He is fine
    now, and says he has more energy then he ever has before.  If you stand
    next to him though, you can hear him tick like a clock.
    
    A heart murmur is something that can be passed on through the family.  
    The way his doctor explained it to me, is that it can be passed to any
    of his kids, but it is more likely that he would have passed it onto
    his daughter (that me).  Sometimes it can only be dectected through a 
    stress test.  It is therefore more likely that I would pass it on
    to my sons.  (I could also be a carrier)
    
    I asked my sons pedi about it and he said that he would check for it
    everytime Stephen (8 months) came in for a checkup.  He told me that it
    wouldn't be dectected until he is at LEAST a year old.  He explained to
    me that a babys blood flow is different than ours and their heart still
    beats about 130-140 beats a minute until they are about 1 year old.  
    At that time, blood flow becomes the same as ours, as does the heart beat.
    This is the time when it can be dectected.  
    
    That is what I know about it.
    
    Kathy

    	One of my best friends has a heart murmur. We were both
    	born in 1947. He was always active in sports, in fact,
    	John was quite a baseball player.
    
    	No ill effects and it kept him out of the military (and
    	Vietnam).
    
    	Scott

    I'd just like to offer the tiny bit of experience, but a real scare we
    had with AJ.  When he was in the hospital just about a month old the
    doctor asked my permission to have a cardiologist take a look at him,
    due to a "murmer".  Of course I hit the ceiling in panic, after all
    less than a month old, surgery, a septic infection and now this, but
    the pedi cardiologist did an echogram, kind of like an ultrasound of
    the heart and said hearing a murmer in small (under one year) children
    is quite common.  He also assured me that most murmers will go away by
    themselves, and also told me many so called "murmers" are really just
    outside noise that was heard during routing listening to the heart.  He
    said the echogram is probably the most positive, and harmless way of
    diagnosing a heart problem in kids.  My guess is that if your child has
    already passed the close scrutiny of an anestesiologist (sp?), that
    maybe it was in fact outside noise.  How about a second opion or
    echogram to put your mind at ease?
    
    On another issue, my sister who is now over 40 had a congenital birth
    defect that was never discovered until she was 18 and going through
    physicals  required for nursing school.  She ultimately had surgery to
    replace her Mitral Valve (they replaced it with a pigs valve of all
    things) and actually did fine all through life, except for an
    occational fainting spell in high school after extreme physical
    activity, like running the track in Phys ed.  He labor and delivery
    were normal and uneventful.

    Many thanks to you all for the advice. I have to take Ben back to the
    doctor in four weeks, so will feel well equipped to ask more-educated
    questions (last time I think I just sat with my mouth open).
    
    Will keep you posted on the outcome.
    
    May j.

    
    I've had a heart murmer since I was born. It is mild and has caused me
    no problems. I used to just get electro cardiograms every 2 yrs. untill
    I reached 18 years old. My heart murmer sounds like a faint squeaking
    when heard through a stethascope. But I've been told that I am not
    limited in anything I do, that's how minor it is. Anyway, I am now 27
    and am still here!! My mother had thought that my giving birth 7 months
    ago would make me have a heart attack or something, but there were no
    complications. Just thought you'd like to here it first hand......
    
    
    sandy

    They discovered I had a heart murmur at 24 when I had a wisdom tooth
    out.  NBD.  I am supposed to take penicillin before I go to the
    dentist; that's all.  

I found out I have a heart murmur when I was 19 (20 years ago).  I had been 
running long distances for years.  The doctor's advice was since none of us
had noticed by then, I should ignore it.

I guess it all depends on how severe it is...

    Update to base note ...
    
    Ben has a hospital appointment on June 18, when we'll see the
    paediatrician who was on-hand when Ben was born. Our own doctor thinks
    Ben will probably have a chest x-ray and possibly an ECG, but says with
    (almost) absolute certainty that this is nothing more than a
    "functional murmer".
    
    It certainly isn't stopping those 15-month-old feet drumming the floor
    when Mum or Dad try to extract their owner from whatever corner,
    cupboard or precarious postion he has manoeuvered himself into :-)
    
    I just hope he doesn't have to endure any unpleasant tests next week.
    
    Will keep you posted. Thanks again for the help.
    
    May j.
                                

My nephew had a mild heart murmur when he was born.  The situation was more or
less identical to what was noted in .3.  The doctor's watched it, saying it
may close by itself.  It didn't, they kept a close eye on him.  As he became
older and more active they noticed he tired easily.  Finally, after extensive
investigation, they decided to operate (he was 4 years old).  It was a hole
which had not only not closed but was becoming larger.  It was about the size
of a quarter.  My sister was able to hold him in the evening and take him home
a week later.

Tom is now a very healthy, absolutely normal 14 year old.  When he was around
8, we had him for a summer.  He was a bit embarressed by his scar until he 
found out it made him a "hero" with my two boys.

ccb

    Hi,
    
    	I'm looking for parents of cardiac babies/children.  I have a 
    six month old little girl that was born with a serious heart condition
    and had to have surgery when she was a day old.  
    
    	I have talked to the local heart assoc. about support groups etc,
    but with little or no help.
    
    thanks,
    
    Kathi
    
    Kathi LaFrance
    csc32::K_lafrance
    
    

Kathi,

There is some discussions of hearts in note 857.*.  You may also want to
look in the Medical notesfile (VMSZOO::MEDICAL), if you haven't already.

Good luck!

   Carol

    My niece was born with 5 holes in her heart (one as large as a
    quarter). All 5 holes eventually closed due to natural maturing of
    the organ and with the help of medication. Had this not occurred by the
    time she reached 5 years of age, surgery would have been necessary.
    
    Aside from a learning disability (not heart-related) she's just fine
    and will turn 15 this October.