Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Kristen,
    
    I'm no pro! Whenever my son is sick we improvise. Sometimes his
    grandmother can fill in, sometimes my husband cares for him, and
    sometimes I stay home. We find we have to wing it each time, because
    circumstances vary for us. Most people I know are like this -- they
    have a plan in place for such things, but end up improvising.
    
    For myself, I have to say that my loyalties are usually to my
    child over work, but that when I'm caught in a pinch (i.e. big
    committment at work) my husband is exceptionally good about 
    changing his own work schedule to cover. Good luck to you.
    
    Lucy
    

    Kristen,
    
    My husband and I do the same thing as Lucy.  We've been lucky in that
    whenever I have had to *absolutely* be at work and Ally gets sick,
    Terry has been able to stay with her.  She's in a home daycare and is
    the only child there besides the sitter's own kids, so if she gets sick
    there, Patty calls me just to let me know and to ask what I'd like her
    to do for Ally (tylenol, etc.).  She's never told me to come and get
    her, but I do feel that if she's sick in the morning before we're
    supposed to leave, I keep her at home.  I think she'd just rather be
    in her own house, in her own bed, with her own toys, and her own mommy
    or daddy.  That's how I felt when I was little...  I can understand
    your dilemma, though, because I've been there, but when I come down
    to it, work will have to wait.  Sometimes it helps me to say to myself,
    "Well, what would they do if I got hit by a truck last night?"  :-)
    
    - Kathryn
    

    I feel the same as .2.  I feel that work is important because it is your
    livelyhood, but my child is a part of my life.  I feel that he comes
    first and foremost in my life.
    
    I try to remember when I was a kid and what made me feel better - It
    was having my mom there to take care of me.  That is what I feel I need
    to do for my son.

    Kristine,  I have to agree with the rest of the replys here.  But I
    have an understanding with my manager(he has 9 kids and a grandson who
    has Aplastic animia so he is on the go also)that my son, Alexnader's
    health comes first.  In fact I had the same sitcuation that you had
    this week.  Alex came down with a stomach virus last Wednesday night
    and was extremly ill.  So I stayed home with him on Thursday called the
    pedi who put him on a lo-fat/light diet which meant that Alex could not
    eat any chocolate on easter.  Alex went back to daycare on Friday and
    got extremly ill Monday Night agian, called the pedi back at 10PM and
    he called me back the next mroning.  Alex is fine know but Tuesday
    morning my husband asked me what I was going to do if Alex was to sick
    to go back to daycare and I told him that Alex's health is more
    important than my job and that I would stay home with him if I had to.
    
    
    I hope everything turns out ok for you.
    
    
    Liz
    

I can't disagree with anyone that my children are more important than my
job.  And I found it interesting that many people remember the comfort of
their mother when they were sick as youngsters.  I have no such memories,
though I really don't remember ever being sick (I was always getting those
"perfect attendance" things).

Some people (some in this conference, but *many* not employed) would argue
that children need their mother (or a parent) ALL THE TIME when they are
young.  I don't subscribe to that.  Some will tell you the child needs you
anytime s/he is sick.  I can't say I subscribe to that.  I do think they
need my comfort when they are hurt or extremely ill (again, hurting).  But
I'm not sure I really understand the impact on the child if a parent cannot
be with him/her.  How damaging (emotionally) is it? Let's face it - sometimes
we are out of town when our children get sick, and they survive.  I honestly
think that many times the parent stays home with the child because *WE*
cannot concentrate!  Could there be any merit to this?

Just curious, and still feeling guilty (both about missing work, and about
not staying home with them longer!).......  and wishing I could spend my
vacation on more fun things!!

Kristen

    Well, whenever one of our boys are sick, we handle it the same as
    everyone else here seems to - scurry around and figure out something. 
    I couldn't imagine dumping a _sick_ (and I don't mean sniffles, I mean
    sick) child onto someone else, for lots of reasons.
    
    When _you_ get sick, how would you feel if your husband came up and
    said "Well, I know you're sick and grumpy and teary and just want to be
    comforted, but instead you're going to go to this 'strange' place, with
    a whole bunch of people you don't know so I can go to work!".  Seems to
    be that would be pretty easy to interpret as "Work is more important to
    Mom than I am".  
    
    I definitely remember being sick as a kid, and wanting nothing more
    than to curl up in my bed or my parents' bed and have my mom (or dad or
    grandma) sit with me.  Just to KNOW that there's someone there who
    really CARES and is willing to be put out to help me feel better.  I
    think it's very important to be there when your child is ill.  Again, I
    don't mean sniffles - but something like a stomach bug or bad cold/flu
    definitely deserves some added care and attention.
    
    If *YOU* were sick, your job would get done, wouldn't it??  I think
    it's also important for the people around you and your boss to understand 
    that you have child(ren) and that sometimes, like it or not, they'll be
    an inconvenience to your work schedule.  AND, they're only young once. 
    5 years from now if you decide that you SHOULD have spent that time
    with them, it's much too late.  5 years from now if you decide that you
    didn't need to spend that time with them and they would've been ok, So
    What?  What's the big loss??  Better safe than sorry ....!
    
    What do you do when you need to take them to the Drs??
    
    Good Luck!!
    

    
    I agree with Patty (.6) in that I would not think of sending my
    child to an unfamiliar environment when he was already feeling
    under the weather.  Our son is _our_ responsibility and there are
    some sacrifices that must be made (career, use of vacation time
    for his sick days, etc) for the pleasure (most of the time!) of
    raising him!  My husband and I have alternated days off to cover 
    for Jason's illnesses.  
    
    My work is project oriented, so for the most part, it is not absolutely
    critical that I be here at specific times on specific days.  Fortunately, 
    this means that I can make up for time taken due to a sick child in most 
    instances and not impact the project schedule.
    
    Kristen, have you considered that you might be harder on yourself (in
    terms of guilt over missed work) than need be?   Perhaps you have
    higher expectations for yourself than your manager does......
    Anyways, consider yourself fortunate to not have to live through
    the New England cold/flu season like many of the noters here do!
    
    Carol   
    

 re .6
    
       While I most certainly agree with your sentiments regarding parents
    and some acknowledgement in the workplace ... It usually doesn't work
    that way unless you are lucky and have a manager who understands.
    Of all the places I have worked, I can safely say that 3 out of 10
    would be understanding ... the rest NO WAY!  In fact some would be
    so Victorian as to find a way to fire you post haste on the second
    occasion.
    
    You suggest your work gets done while you're away ... HA HA ... maybe
    you're lucky ... for most our work waits our return and for many it
    just pile up oblivious to our absence.
    
    You say in your heading you say ...
    
    You're their mom - they need you
    
    If that's true then we should be working to ensure that incomes are
    such that we can again successfully live on one income and we shouldn't
    have single parents.
    
    Yes children need comfort when ill, and as long as you can show your
    children that you are doing the best you can for them, even if it means
    leaving them with someone who will comfort them, then that is a lot
    better than nothing!  After all, the Doctor's bills do have to be paid
    and you'd be doing the kids no favour if you couldn't take them to the
    Dr because you couldn't afford it!  I remember days like that when I
    was a child.
    
    You talked so emotionally about wanting to curl up in your parents
    bed ...   Let's get the emotions out of this ...  What most children
    want to do is to curl up somewhere warm and be attended to.  Yes
    there is a little extra comfort from the parents bed but not really
    that much.  So, as long as the necessary WARM care then you've done
    the best you can.
    
    There is a big difference between taking an hour out of a working day
    to take a kiddie to the Doctor than to take a whole day off.
    
    You have to balance the emotional aspects of what you are feeling
    with the logical aspects of doing what you have to do and whether
    the physical and at lest some of the emotional needs of the child
    are being met.  It is too easy to get carried away with the emotions
    of these situations.
    
    Stuart
    

    
    I have to agree with Kristen about hospital "sick" child programs.  It
    sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure I could do it.  My parents
    are my daycare providers and are always willing to take in the sickly
    ones.  But when my son had persistent ear infections for a year and
    finally tubes put in his ears, my priorities were with him and not
    work.  After 7 months, my manager lost that understanding "tone" when I
    took off, even though I never took off a whole day, just enough to take 
    him to the doctor and always made up every minute of the time I took
    off.
    
    Sick little ones are a dilemna, I haven't encountered  anything much more 
    gut wrenching than leaving my vomiting child to go to work.  We have
    established some norms when our kids get sick.  
    
    1.  One of us always takes the kids to the doctor, unless we both have 
        absolute committments. [This has only happened once!] Hearing the
        diagnosis secondhand causes even more guilt feelings.
    
    2.  We split sick child "duty", i.e. I take the morning off, he takes
        the afternoon off. I always do as much work as I can from home.   
    
    3.  There is a 24 hour clinic run by the children's hospital not too far
        from us.  Our pedi is a member, so the cost to us and the insurance
        is very reasonable.  We take the kids there on off hours for
        emergencies whenever we can.  For example, an ear infection that rear
        its ugly head on Sunday evening.  Instead of waiting till Monday
        morning, I took him to the clinic at 11pm on Sunday night.  I'd
        rather lose some sleep, than have to scramble on Monday to get him
        to the doctor. I feel much better leaving him sick at daycare with a
        prescription and several doses taken.
    
    My big fear is that my kids will get sick right before a trip scheduled
    or something.  They would survive, but I'm not sure about me!
    
    Rochelle   
        
    
    
    
    
    It is a real dilemna, most 

>    Of all the places I have worked, I can safely say that 3 out of 10
>    would be understanding ... the rest NO WAY!  In fact some would be
>    so Victorian as to find a way to fire you post haste on the second
>    occasion.
 
    Of all the places that I've worked in DEC, I've ALWAYS had understand-
    ing mgrs.  Maybe this is because I never gave them the opportunity to
    be less than understanding, and I made sure that this was the case
    before I took the job.  Dealing with customers may be different, but I
    can't believe that ANYone missing a day's work is going to cause them
    to be fired.  And if it's such a problem w/ the boss, lie and tell them
    YOU'RE sick.  Gotta do what it takes!
       
>    You suggest your work gets done while you're away ... HA HA ... maybe
>    you're lucky ... for most our work waits our return and for many it
>    just pile up oblivious to our absence.
 
    The urgent things will always be done (else they're not urgent!).  I'd
    rather bust my butt catching up for a few days then leave an ill child.   
    
    
>    Yes children need comfort when ill, and as long as you can show your
>    children that you are doing the best you can for them, even if it means
>    leaving them with someone who will comfort them, then that is a lot
>    better than nothing! 
    
    Isn't the whole point of this discussion deciding "What's best"?
    
     After all, the Doctor's bills do have to be paid
>    and you'd be doing the kids no favour if you couldn't take them to the
>    Dr because you couldn't afford it!  I remember days like that when I
>    was a child.
 
    You're not going to lose your job if take a sick day or half day
    occassionally - let's be real!
       
>    You talked so emotionally about wanting to curl up in your parents
>    bed ...   Let's get the emotions out of this ...  What most children
>    want to do is to curl up somewhere warm and be attended to.  Yes
>    there is a little extra comfort from the parents bed but not really
>    that much.  So, as long as the necessary WARM care then you've done
>    the best you can.
    
    How can you "Get the emotions out of this" when the whole subject is
    ABOUT the emotions involved??  Perhaps your kids are quite different
    than mine (and a 4 mo old is CERTAINLY different than a 2+ year old,
    who understands more!), but when either of the boys are SICK, they
    don't even want to get dressed, let alone GO anywhere.  It matters a
    freat DEAL to them whether it's mom or dad or some stranger taking care
    of them.  If I have to slough that care off on someone else, then I
    DON'T feel I've done the best I can - but that's just how we feel about
    our kids.  DIGITAL is not going to crumble if I stay home for a day -
    my kid will remember it for a long time though if I don't!
    
>    There is a big difference between taking an hour out of a working day
>    to take a kiddie to the Doctor than to take a whole day off.
 
    So, split the day w/ your spouse and take 1/2 a day off.  That gets
    wasted in long/unneccesary meetings fairly often.   
    
>    You have to balance the emotional aspects of what you are feeling
>    with the logical aspects of doing what you have to do and whether
>    the physical and at lest some of the emotional needs of the child
>    are being met.  It is too easy to get carried away with the emotions
>    of these situations.
 
    Virtually no matter WHERE the child is, the _physical_ needs will
    always be met.  I don't think this is the issue here.  Are you THAT
    sure that your child's emotional needs are being met by leaving them
    with someone else, that you are not willing to consider that they might
    NOT be??  I base my feelings on this subject on how *I* felt as a child
    when I was sick, and on how my boys act/react when they're sick.
    
    Again, there's a BIG difference depending on ages.  If I had an infant,
    the infant will probably do much better in a strange environment than
    an older child who knows Mom and Dad, and understands that they really
    want to be with them.  BUT you still can't take the emotions out of it,
    and each set of parents needs to decide what's best for their children.
    Hopefully this was all taken into consideration when the parents got
    their jobs too!!  I know we thought about it a LOT!
    
    
       
    
    
    

I certainly didn't mean to start such a controversy here!  Sorry about that...

I'm still undecided on where I stand, but I suppose I will stand somewhere
different in each circumstance, depending on:

	- How sick the child is
	- Who/where my alternative care provider is
	- What else is going on at work

BTW - when I take my children to the doctor, I take 1/2 day vacation.  But I
plan and schedule it in advance.  It is the unexpected things that can cause
havoc with me!

Kristen

re .-1

You have been extremely lucky from what I've seen in terms of managers.
There was a story related in here or V2 around a year ago by someone who
was in a terrible bind because husband had been fired for taking time
off to look after the kids (non DEC) and the wife wasn't in a much
better position.  It does happen.  Moreover, taking time off sick yourself
is another way to end up without a job if your work is considered
critical ... and I've seen that too ...

What I am asking myself on reading your note is how you can actually
manage to tear yourself away to go out to work even when the kids are
not sick ...  That's not meant sarcastically as a put down ... It is
a rhetorical question which if you look at it the right way says that
you must have managed to detach the emotions of the issue far enough
from the facts to be able to justify going out to work.  What I'm trying
to point out here is that you've got to do the same thing.

I'm not trying to deny anyone their feelings and emotions ... what I am
saying is that it is too easy to get wrapped up in the emotions and
land yourself in hot water.

Yes, there will be times when your children are seriously ill and require
a parent to be there ... and there are times when a warm caring person
can achieve the same thing.

Look what happens when a kiddie goes into hospital ... as much as you'd
like to, you cannot be there all the time for the child, and you are
putting your child in the hands of strangers.  

All I'm trying to say is not to get so wrapped up in the emotions of the
situation that you lose sight of what is really necessary.  Yes sometimes
your presence will really be necessary, and sometimes it won't ... it
will depend on you, your children and the ailment.

Believe me, if it were up to me, were I a manager, I would be as flexible
as I possibly could given job constraints ... and I'd move heaven and earth
to accomodate sick kid situations.  I was a manager at one time outside
DEC, and one thing I told the parents I supervised ... if you have to take
time for your children for illness ... tell me that ... don't tell me you
are sick ... because your own illness was noted by the personnel management.
Other days off were by agreement.

Stuart

    I don't find it possible to have a consistent answer.  
    
    Sometimes the child is really sick and the work isn't so critical,
    and Neil or I stays home.  Sometimes the child isn't as sick and
    the work is critical, and he goes to the sitter or comes in with
    one of us.  Sometimes it's a really tough call.  
    
    --bonnie

RE: .12

>Look what happens when a kiddie goes into hospital ... as much as you'd
>like to, you cannot be there all the time for the child, and you are
>putting your child in the hands of strangers.

Not necessarily...

I was only in the hospital once, to have my tonsils removed.  My mom and
dad took turns staying in my room, and I was *never* without them for even
a moment (even at night when I was asleep) the entire time I was
hospitalized.  I'm sure I would have survived otherwise, but it was awfully 
nice to have them there.

Steve

OK Steve,

I know there is always always someone who has a case to pose the other way.
On the other hand my brother and I were in hospital with pneumonia many
years ago and our parents couldn't be there all the time ...  but on
the other hand I don't remember being terribly upset at the occasion and
I don't think it had any long lasting effects ....

Stuart

(I want my mooooooooommmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy!  :-)))

    Every time AJ has been hospitalized (that's about 16 times now) since
    birth I've made it clear they're getting TWO for the space of one!  The
    staff at UMass Medical Center knows when they see me coming that it's a
    bed for him and a cot for mom!  In all his hospitalizations the most
    he's has ever been alone without us is maybe once or twice for a two
    hour break for dinner, usually at a closeby restaurant.  While were
    gone some staff member, even if it's just the floor secretary, will
    stay with him at all times.  That's a real good feeling from where I
    see it.  I'm a firm believer that as a parent you are your child's
    advocate, and can allow or refuse treatments as you see fit.  So I stay
    with him to prevent too much poking of prodding, or just disturbing his
    sleep.
    
    When he's just home with something routine, cold, chicken pox or asthma
    attack, my husband and I try to split the day, or he'll try to take the
    day off before I have to.  You see hubby is WC4, I'm a DECTAG and don't
    get paid for time not in the office.  As for doctors' appointments, and
    he's got TONS of those, in just about every case I'm the one to handle
    those, that's just the way I feel more comfortable.
    
    Lyn

    Does anybody have any experience with "not-so-well" child care?
    
    Does anybody know of any "not-so-well" child care centers in the
    Southern New Hampshire, Northeaster Massachusetts area?
    
    not-so-well care centers provide care to children who are not well
    enough to be mainstreamed in the normal care-giving environment and
    who are not sick enough to NEED parental care at home or be in a
    hospital.  Of course, if the child is really ill, everybody feels
    better if the child is at home with a parent.
    
    For example, if a child contacts chicken pox, s/he cannot come back
    to daycare/school until all of the spots have scabbed over.  This 
    can be up to two weeks in some cases.  "Not-so-well" child care would
    provide a quiet environment that would allow the child to set her/his
    own schedule for napping, reading, and quiet play until well enough
    to participate in the regular program.