Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Bonnie,
    First, my heart goes out to you and your situation. It is hard enough
    losing a family pet, but when the child(ren) is so close, it becomes
    harder. I would ot tell Hannah anything definite yet, until you get the
    biopsy reports. You might tell her that the dr. is concerned that Ollie
    might not be feeling well, and he will check it out. You might also
    begin the ,"ollied is getting to be fairly old for a dog, and we can
    expect more problems in an older dog". Assure her that dogs don't live
    as ong as people, or she may (kids are birght) realize that *you* are
    older than 11 and begin to worry about *you*.
    
    Above all, I wouldn't lie to her about it. Kids are so perceptive about
    things parents try to hide, that she'd likely understand more than you
    told her, and then either be confused by your answers, and/or not trust
    you in the future.
    
    I couldn't agree more that if things progressed rapidly that the timing
    is awful, but you may have no choice but to deal with it now. Help her
    understand that the baby has absolutely nothing to do with Ollie
    getting sick, and make sure she understnads it's nothing that *she* did
    that made Ollie get sick. I believe that might be a fairly common jump
    in illogic for a small child to make..."Ollie got sick 'cause I didn't
    play with him one day, or becasue I accidently stepped on his paw..."
    or whatever.
    
    I would encourage her to take pictures/draw pcitures of Ollie, and when
    he's gone, to look at them as often as she wants. Assure her that the
    hurt she feels *will* go away, but she'll always have that love for
    Ollie cause they were special friends.
    
    It won't be easy, but you can get through it. 3.5 is a tough age for
    this sort of thing, too. Still too little to really understand, but old
    enough to be aware quite a bit. If you stay solidly there for her,
    she'll get through it.
    
    --dave--

    
    
    	A suggestion if something does happen, is a wonderful book whose
    title is something like "The Last Good thing about Charly" or the
    "Tenth Good thing about Charly".  It's a great story about when a
    family's pet died, the following spring flowers sprang up where they
    buried him.  My sister sent all my siblings a copy when our cat we all
    grew up with passed away.  We were all adults at the time and it is
    a child's book, but it was wonderful!

    Bonnie,
    
    My sister's family lost their dog this past weekend - literally lost
    her.  Heidi was about 14 years old, terribly arthritic, incontinent,
    visually impaired, and an important member of the family.  She went out
    on Saturday and hasn't been seen since.  It has been very difficult for
    all of them.  I think what is most difficult is not knowing what has
    happened to her and not being able to say goodbye to her.
    
    IF Ollie's biopsies indicate malignancy, I suggest you be honest with
    Hannah.  Let her know that Ollie is sick, and prepare her for his
    death.  Give her the opportunity to "say goodbye" in her own way - with
    special treats, activities, whatever.  And teach her about death -
    whatever you want her to know as true.  I have seen children's books on
    this topic.  Let her know that while she may be sad and hurting, that
    Ollie is not hurting any more.  Let her know that neither she nor the
    new baby have anything to do with Ollie's condition.  (Our family bird
    "went away" shortly after I was born and my sisters believed I was the
    cause for a long time).  This will be a difficult time, but if Hannah
    is able to prepare for it it may not be as traumatic.
    
    good luck - 

    
    
    Also see the CANINE notes file for information on cancer in 
    dogs. Lymph node  cancer in dogs is more severe than in humans...
    Our dog died of it last September ( 10 years old). We first noticed
    it when she had trouble breathing... the lymph nodes in her neck, back, 
    and hind legs swelled incredibly. Swelling of this type generally
    indicates that the cancer is advanced..... but may not have yet spread
    to other systems. IF it is cancer (lymph node cancer is one of the 
    most common cancers in dogs), and IF it has not spread to other 
    systems, and If the dog is still very strong, then you may be 
    able to start chemotherapy ( about $1000 for a 20lb dog). We 
    had started chemotherapy for our pup, but she died of a complication. 
    I can tell you that if she hadn't died, she might have lived for 1-2
    more years ( her lymph nodes shrunk to almost nothing within 12 hours
    of the first treatment). Without chemo, our dog would have most 
    certainly died in less than 2 months.  If it is cancer, your dogs 
    health will get worse slowly (you will notice him slow down, lose 
    appetite, etc), so you will have to tell your child something. 
    
    good luck,
    
    doug
    

    I went through this with my son when he was just 4.  We emphasized the
    age and how age is an important factor in how serious getting sick can
    be (he picked up on that right away and asked if we were old!).  Once
    our cat had been put to sleep we spent time talking about our memories
    and how nice they were and how as long as we had memories we could
    still be happy about the cat.
    
    This helped a lot when his grandfather died, this past year.  He
    recalled the conversations about the cat and tried to help his little
    sister to understand about the memories!

There is also a book called "Pet Loss".  I had to put my cat to sleep 
a few years ago.  The day that I found out how seriously ill he was, I had
to go into work.  A regular customer picked up that I was not my "cheery self," 
and when he found out why then he sent me this book.  It was very helpful
in many ways, including teaching me about the different drugs for 
euthanasia.  

The only thing that I would do differently is that I would not have been
in the room when he died.  I expected him to die as if going to sleep, but
I did not realize that this cat had an unusual reaction to needles in his
arm: total panic.  If we had known, we would have done it in the neck.
According to the vet, most cats react the other way around.  Indiana and his
brother both reacted to the arm in the same way.

Bonnie, I am terribly saddened for your family.  I hope this works out as well
as possible for all of you.

       Carol

    The book that .2 was referring to is called
    
    The Tenth Good Thing About Barney    and it is by Judith Viorst.
    
    We just read it the other day, so it was fresh in my mind. It may help,
    but it may be a bit above a 3.5 yr. old. We have a 3.5 yr. old, and she
    didn't seem to latch onto the idea real well, but the 5.5 yr. old did
    quite easily. Read it yourself and see what you think first.
    
    did you hear anything about Ollie yet?
    
    --dave--

    I've been thinking about this note.  How is Ollie?

    
    Thank you all, for your concern.  Unfortunatey, I don't have any news
    yet.
    
    They did the biopsy on Thursday and told me that they send the tissue
    to Tufts--and to call Monday for the results.  
    
    It appears that the office is closed today--I guess they forgot that
    today is a holiday when they told me to call.
    
    In the meantime, I'm on pins and needles.  It's really hit me--I don't
    want to lose our wonderful dog.
    
    Funny.  We were at a friends' house on Friday for dinner and she
    mentioned that a neighbor had just spent $3K for an artificial hip for
    her dog.  I said immediately, "that's crazy, that's nuts.  I'd never do
    that!"
    
    And yet, when I logged in today and saw someone's note about
    Chemotherapy costing about $1K per 20 pounds of dog--I started figuring
    out how much Ollie would cost (he weights around 70 lbs.) and thinking,
    "well, if that would buy him a couple of years..."
    
    He's just so beautiful and so wonderful with Hannah and so gentle.  And
    he appears to be feeling fine--his appetite is way up there--and he's
    still quite frisky for an 11-year old dog.  It's hard to believe he
    could be terminally ill.
    
    Thanks for asking.  As soon as I hear any news, I'll post the results.
    Keep your fingers crossed.
    
    Thanks,
    Bonnie
    
    

    
    
    Chemotherapy is also not as severe on dogs as on humans. 
    It seems that they have about 5 drugs available in the 
    anti-lymphoma ( or lympho sarcoma) arsenal. In dogs, they give
    these drugs over a sequence of of 8 - 10 weeks. Generally, 
    they know how affective treatment will be after the first two weeks.
    They alternate the really harsh drugs with the milder drugs, 
    so your dog does not get really wiped out. With humans, they
    give devastating doses.... they go for overkill because they
    simply must eliminate the cancer. In dogs, they go for maximum drug
    efficiency, which is much less drug per pound of body weight.
    Before you decide what to do, talk to the vet that would be 
    administering the treatment. They should be able to give you an
    approximate cost of treatment up front. Hopefully, they will 
    be honest with you and try to steer you away from treatment if
    they are not optimistic about the outcome. Then the decision
    is yours.... you will have all of the facts.  
    In any case, we were told that lymph cancer  is one off the 
    less painful types of cancer, and your dog will slow down 
    and become weak without a lot of pain.
    
    best wishes,
    
    doug

    
    Well everyone, I have GREAT news.  Ollie's biopsy was NEGATIVE!
    
    The vet. is *very* puzzled.  He says he's never seen such enlarged
    lynph nodes in an animal without there being a malignancy.  In humans,
    such large, benign lynph nodes usually mean either mono or
    Epstein-Barr--but Ollie truly is acting just fine, so who knows what's
    going on?
    
    The vet. feels there is some kind of infection--so he put Ollie on 10
    days of Tetracycline.  If the lynph nodes don't go down in 10 days, he
    will put Ollie on steroids (pregnesone) for a week, to see if that
    clears up the infection.
    
    You can't imagine how relieved I feel.
    
    Unfortunately, both me and my husband have been treating Ollie as
    though he were living his last days on planet earth.  We have been
    feeding this otherwise very well trained dog TONS of table food (right
    from the table)--I even made a whole box of chocolate pudding--gave
    Hannah a little bowl full--and gave the rest to Ollie.
    
    Now, we have to get him back to his previous, "no table food" state. 
    Good luck to us!
    
    What a relief!
    
    Thanks everyone, for your concern and good wishes.  Someone up there is
    with us.
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    Yea!!! So happy to hear Ollie will be all right!  

Oh, thank heavens!  I'm thrilled for you, and really hope that the explanation
will turn out to be something trivial.

<    Now, we have to get him back to his previous, "no table food" state. 
<    Good luck to us!

Ha!!!  I am *so* relieved that he is okay!  And I can sympathize about 
having to retrain him.  :-)  good luck!!!

     Carol

Mei-Mei is not ready to die; far from her 16 years age. I am
concerned that Sammy is not as close to her as Judy or I. He does
get attached to other cats that allows him to get close. I am
wondering if a neutered kitten for him might be in order;
especially when Mei-Mei may die; when she's ready.

Any feelings or suggestions?

calvin