| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 695.1 | | USOPS::GALLANT | Had your Russian eggnog... | Mon Feb 11 1991 13:53 | 19 |
|
FWIW...
When I was in school, we had more than one class of second
graders. (three if I remember correctly) Would your
son possibly consider being changed to another class??
At that young age, I would imagine recess would be taken
with other second graders so he wouldn't be missing out
on activities with his friends in his original class.
Every class/school has got a "Joe" and unfortunately I
can see where a principal is stuck in the middle. MY
personal resolution would probably be to remove my son
from the problem rather than the other way around. Again,
provided my son agreed.
/Kim
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| 695.2 | | VISUAL::ROSENBLUH | | Mon Feb 11 1991 14:37 | 33 |
| I don't have any advice, because I'm at least 4 years away from having
to deal with this. However, I'm interested in what is and is not a
successful tactic to use in this kind of situation. The following
things come to mind; does anyone out there have experience with putting
them into practice?
1) - Go over the principal's head by complaining to the
school board.
2) - Joint action: together with other parents from the
class write a letter to the principal asking for
a solution to the problem your kids face. Have all
the parents you can find sign the letter. If no results,
see #1.
3) - Joint action: ask the principal to meet with the 'concerned
parents' as a group to discuss the problem and possible
solutions.
4) - Confront the disruptive kid's parents directly. I realize this
might not be a good idea if the parents react violently
(the kid might have learned his diruptive habits at home)
or if the parents simply become too defensive to discuss it,
but maybe they are also looking for help and need a little
push from outside to realize that they should do something -
therapy, or look for a different educational setting for their
son; whatever. At this point, you have no way of *making* it
their problem, but sometimes just telling someone that *you*
have a problem with something over which they have some control,
and *asking* for their help in solving it, actually works!
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
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| 695.3 | "Joe" needs help | ISLNDS::AMANN | | Mon Feb 11 1991 14:38 | 22 |
| This sounds like a classic lose-lose situation. "Joes" classmates
are being terrorized and "Joe" is well on his way to be coming a
social misfit.
I don't know what state Joe lives in, but in Massachusetts he's
entitled to special services that will make sure he does not become
a social outcast.
The comment "Joe has the right ......" sounds like a lot of educational
baloney. Joe does NOT have the right to physically threaten others
(this is against the law) nor does he have the "right" to develop
behavior patterns that will make him a permanent outcast.
Joe and his parents would be helped tremendously if someone would
talk to the parents about their educational rights to get Joe help
now - while he's still in the second grade.
Joe has the right to an evaluation to determine how to deal with
his problem. Joe has the right to get whatever help he needs to
succeed in the school environment and - right now - neither Joe
or his classmates are getting the benefit of those educational rights.
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| 695.4 | Make a (some) list(s) | CSC32::DUBOIS | The early bird gets worms | Mon Feb 11 1991 15:34 | 19 |
| < What do you think WE should do? What do you think we should request that the
< PRINCIPAL do?
These are very good questions. I think you should make a list of exactly what
you want from the teacher and the principal. Then you could decide what is
feasible or not. You also need to think of what you are willing to do if
your requests are not met.
For instance, you haven't mentioned whether or not the teacher or the
principal have even spoken with Joe's parents. It might help. You could put
that on your list.
What are the specific behaviours that Joe does, and *when* does he do them
(i.e. recess, after school, during class, etc)? Knowing this may give you
some more insight as to what actions could be taken to curb his behaviour.
Good luck! Please keep us posted!
Carol
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| 695.5 | Reply from base noter | POWDML::SATOW | | Wed Feb 13 1991 08:12 | 60 |
| This reply is from the base noter.
================================================================================
This is an update.
My wife went in yesterday for a conference with the teacher and the principal.
"Joe" is under some rather severe restrictions. When he gets out of control
in the classroom, he is removed immediately. He is restricted as to what he
can do at recesses and at lunch. They were not aware of the problems in the
lunch room, but now that they are, they will monitor that also. They said
some additional steps were being taken that they couldn't reveal for
confidentiality reasons (fair enough). They are spending a lot of time
monitoring him. The principal said over and over again, "This is a public
school . . .". As I mentioned above, my wife sensed more than a little
defensiveness.
"Joe" is not in this week. Yesterday, our son came home and said that the
teacher had told them "not to blame all your problems on Joe". We verified
that the comment came before my wife's appointment, so we assume that the
teacher had simply taken advantage of the boy's absence to make the point.
We are satisfied that our son heard the message correctly, but are very
concerned that some other kids didn't, and interpret it that they aren't
allowed to make even legitimate complaints about "Joe".
Thank you for your replies.
.1
Yes, there is more than one class. However, most of our son's friends are in
the current class. Also, he likes his teacher, as do we. Why should he have
to give that up?
.2, joint action
Several parents have been into the principal directly, some many times. I
think that the principal and teacher are starting to feel defensive (see
above) and I'm afraid that a mass intrusion would just make them more
defensive.
.3
Yes, this is in Massachusetts. I don't feel comfortable approaching the
parent directly. I don't know her (I believe it is a single parent household)
and I'm not sure how I'd react to a stranger "informing" me of my rights --
even if they did it as tactfully as possible. I think that's the school's
responsibility. Yes, I know schools frequently don't tell the parents about
their rights, because it might mean more work and more expense for them. But
the problem is right now occupying a lot of their time (see above) and you
would think they would have encouraged the parent(s) to pursue all
possibilities.
.4
Your comment about when the behavior occurs is interesting. The problems
occur everywhere -- recess, in the cafteria, except in one classroom. My
son's class has one subject (science) in another classroom, with another
teacher. There are no problems there. I'm not certain why. Does he have the
wrong teacher? (If so, why do the problems occur outside the classroom?).
Does science grab his attention?
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| 695.6 | Good luck | ISLNDS::AMANN | | Wed Feb 13 1991 15:27 | 28 |
| I can understand why the school seems to be very sensitive about
"Joe."
If he has *not* been identified as a child with special needs it's
pretty clear the school has missed the boat in failing to identify
the child. (One question for the child's teacher would be "has
'Joe' been identified as a child with special needs?"
If he *has* been identified as a child with special needs, then
the school's individual education plan is not working for 'Joe',
and the method the school has chosen to discipline him(i.e. get
him out of the class when he acts up) seems to be discriminatory
and a violation of Federal Regulations (Section 504).
The fact that 'Joe' can get along in at least one class without
exhibiting improper behavior suggests that he is a child who could
have success in the right environment.
The fact that he has become an obvious problem is probably, in the
long run, good for him and his classmates. Kids who act up are more likely
to be recommended by their schools for the proper evaluations.
You and the other parents have probably done a great favor, not
just for your own kids, but for Joey. Without some intervention
the problem wasn't likely to get better.
BTW - The special education laws specifically prohibit SPED kids
in classrooms if their behavior is going to be disruptive.
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| 695.7 | Rules for expulsion? | RADIA::PERLMAN | | Thu Feb 14 1991 11:58 | 8 |
| When is a school allowed to expell a student? I believe a high school
kid could be expelled for dealing drugs, or violence. Is there nothing
a younger child can do that would get them expelled? Or am I wrong
about older kids too? Given that it's a public school, must they
allow a dangerous child to keep attending? If it's an age thing -- a
younger child cannot be expelled, what is the age cutoff?
Radia
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| 695.8 | Plenty of questions, not many answers | ULTRA::DONAHUE | | Thu Feb 14 1991 12:23 | 14 |
| If "Joe" behaves in the science class, maybe the school should try him
in that class?? Maybe "Joe" can relate to this teacher more than his
current teacher?
If "Joe's" parents haven't been notified of this situation, they should
be. Maybe there are special circumstances at home (abuse? neglect?
etc.?) Maybe "Joe" enjoys the attention he gets when he acts up during
school because he get no attention at home?
"Joe" could be caught in a catch-22 situation and no one would be the
wiser, unless the home environment is evaluated.
Just a few thoughts that came to mind while reading this scenario
Norma
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| 695.9 | kids that age do exaggerate
| CSSE32::RANDALL | Pray for peace | Fri Feb 15 1991 14:50 | 34 |
| There's a similar problem in Steven's class, though not as severe.
A hurt and troubled boy is trying to use every means at his disposal to
get attention from the teacher and his classmates. Unfortunately his
repertoire is very limited.
He's not a special needs kid, unless not having a very happy home life
is a special need (his parents recently divorced).
For a while after Thanksgiving "Andy" was getting blamed for everything
bad that happened in the class -- one kid, "Ted," came home and told his
mother that Andy had stolen his lunch money by threatening to
beat him up. The lunch money was found in Ted's desk the next week.
Ted had lost it and made up the story about Andy to keep from getting in
trouble. (Made-up names. I don't think there are any Teds or Andys in
Steven's class. I hope not, anyway.)
Later I found out that a couple of things Steven had done wrong had
been blamed on the other kid.
The teacher started working with all the kids about appropriate
expressions of emotion. They talked about things like anger and
aggression and using words to express it.
The other kid is still misbehaving, but things seem to have settled down
somewhat now that the teacher and the parents are aware that even though
he is a problem, he does have a side to his story.
I'm not sure how much that applies to your case, but what the teacher
said about not blaming Joe for everything added to the tendency of first
and second graders to exaggerate leads me to believe that perhaps not all
the blame goes on Joe.
--bonnie
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