Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I would try a non-iron cereal.  With what extra iron does to my insides
    I never gave iron fortified cereal to my twerps.  You might want to try
    mashed carrots for the increased fiber as well.  
    
    Are you still breast feeding?  If so try adding prunes or apples to
    your diet as well.  I know it sounds odd but that worked for me.
    
    Meg

    
    You might find some information in note 409 though it addresses
    older infants.
    
    I've always found the rice cereal to be rather binding (in fact,
    I use it when my son gets diarrhea) so you might want to stick to
    the oatmeal and barley cereals.   Also, if I recall correctly, it
    took Jason a couple months to adjust to solids in terms of bowel
    movement regularity...it's a rather big change for their digestive
    systems.   That is not to say that he ever went a week without
    a movement, but just that it might take awhile to develop a routine.
    
    I've also heard that you can add some sugar or corn syrup to the
    baby's water or cereal to loosen the stools.
    
    Carol

Corn syrup is good for helping to get things moving, as strange as it may seem.

Stuart

    
    I remember when Spencer was an infant, I called my pedi after he went
    about 4-5 days without a bm.  They told me to wait for his next one, if
    it looked normal, then he as fine, but to call if it was dark, hard, or
    little pellets (sorry to be grose!).  They told me that sometimes
    babies just "don't go" for awhile.  I think it was a total of 6 days
    before he finally went, and it looked fine.  After that he was more
    regular, but a few times he would go days before having a bm.  I just
    knew what to look for it it was a problem.
    
    

    When my son, Michael was an infant, he had me concerned because
    he would go a week with only one bowel movement.  I called the
    pediatrician frantic and certain something was wrong. The pedi
    suggested I take Michael's temperature anally. Within 20 minutes
    I had to change some pretty messy diapers.  After that, I just 
    waited for nature to run its natural course and be grateful for
    infrequent 'mess' duty. 
    
    You might want to call your pediatrician and see if he would 
    recommend this simple method to get 'things' going.
      
    Jodi-

    
    re .5  The thermometer does seem to stimulate things doesn't it?
    
    re .0
    
    My 8 month old daughter is still adjusting to solids in her diet.  Her
    system did the same thing when we first started with  rice cereal,
    oatmeal seemed to keep thing moving better. Also, our pedi told us to
    try regular oatmeal (processed)  or cream of wheat instead of the flakes
    when introducing new cereals. That seems to keep things "moving" too.  
     
    We also noticed that her diapers became "less than fragrant" when things
    did start "moving".  She also developed her first diaper rash within
    weeks.
     
    Fortunately, someone else noted that Moms eating chocolate can give your
    breastfed baby diarrhea.  I opted for chocolate instead of prunes!
    
    Rochelle

    Constipation can very quickly become chronic because of physical
    changes that occur in the bowel.  The more matter that is in there, the
    more the muscles stretch, the less ability they have to push matter
    through. And it becomes a vicious cycle.
    
    We had problems with our son starting at 6 months when he was put on
    milk (didn't make that mistake with our second!) and our pediatrician
    just keep putting off doing anything about it (with our uninformed
    assistance) until he was three years old when it took a full year
    of intensive medication and visits to specialists to get him back
    to normal.  He is now 8, still has some recurring problems but has a
    mature bowel system to be able to handle it.
    
    Don't let this scare you but it CAN happen.  Just don't make the
    mistake of letting it go for an extended period.

    
    I too had this problem when my 5 month old started solids. My Pedi said
    to give her Baby Oatmeal Cereal because the rice cereal was binding her
    up. Also, apple juice diluted with water worked. 3 parts water 1 part
    juice. But only twice a day, because it will either make her have
    diareha or constipate her. Plain water also keeps a baby regular, if
    they like plain water. Fortunately my daughter loves plain water.
    Try these tips. Good luck.
    
    
    Sandy

I agree with the earlier note that said it's not how often, it's what the 
stool looks like.  

People of all ages vary widely in how often their bowels move, from several
times a day to only a time or two a week.  Depending on the baby, there
might be a constipation problem (if the stools are hard, etc.) or it 
might just be normal for that baby.

--bonnie  

    I absolutely agree with Bonnie!
    When our daughter was about a month old (she was breastfed), she went
    (routinely!!!!) 2 weeks in between BM's! Absolutely had my wife
    panicked, because our firstbron, who was breastfed till one month then
    bottlefed, used to go several times daily. The pedi said, "don't worry,
    this is entirely within normal limits for breastfed babies". Evidently
    some babies use the food they get so entirely that there's almost
    nothing left for waste. When she did go, every 2 weeks, they were
    normal color, soft stools, and she never appeared uncomfortable.
    
    Thsi was *not* considered constipation, because the stools were normal,
    although very infrequent. It appears this is the key in defining
    constipation, just as Bonnie said.
    
    --dave--

    I had this problem with my son Alexander when he was about 2 months
    old.  I called his pedi and he said to give him a warm bath because
    sometimes this can help move the gas pockets around, we tried this and
    it didn't work, so we tried prunes, prune juice, and plums and nothing
    worked.  So as a last resort he told us to us a baby supository and of
    course it was at 9:00PM on Christmas eve and there was not a drug store
    open.  So I remembed that my girlfriend had some cause her daughter had
    the same problem, so I borrowed a couple from her and inserted one in
    Alex's bum and within 20 minutes he was relived of this pain, and
    hasn't has a problem since.
    
    Liz
    

Thank you everyone for your replies!

My daughter had a bm last night.  I don't know if it was the prunes or that she
was just ready to go.  It was of normal consistancy, so she wasn't constipated.
I didn't think she was because she wasn't complaining but it was a relief to
have her go.

In talking with the pedi's office I found out from the nurse that they count
any bm, no matter how small, as one.  Because my daughter had had a very very
small bm on Sunday, but my husband and I did't think that counted as one
because it was so small.  The way I was looking at it was the amount in vs out
(six days and that's all the poop you have???).

I will try some of your suggestions to try to keep her regular (whatever that
is for her!).  I think it might get a little easier as we introduce new fruits
and veggies and as she eats more.  Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to care as
much for the oatmeal as she does the rice.  I'll try the diluted apple juice
too.  Does it have to be baby apple juice or can it be Motts et al?

RE: .1  -  I tried prunes last night.  I think it's too early to tell if it
will affect my daughter, but it worked for me, I think I ate too many!

BTW, my Mom said I was the same way, every three days or so, and ESPECIALLY on
the days she took me to the pedi!

With this experience under my belt, maybe I'll have a better idea what to
feed her if she goes the other way (diarrhea), then again, maybe not!

Thanks again for all your helpful replies!  It's nice to know I have plenty of
company.

Jane


P.S.  Another thing the nurse told me might work is a warm bath (maybe in the
same family of ideas as the thermometer).  Come to think of it, she has been
going on her bath day, like yesterday!

    re: infant juices.   save your money and just buy Motts and other
    varieties of 100% fruit juice.   there is nothing special (except
    that they are already somewhat watered down) about the juices bottled
    and sold by the baby food manufacturers.
    
    carol

    Try Papaya juice from Very Fine.. it will take about 30 minutes...

re: .12

I would imagine that if you used to go several days between movements, 
it would be likely that your daughter would inherit that from you.  

Dates are also good and many kids like them better than prunes.  In a 
few kids -- David being one of them -- apples have the reverse effect
and wind up binding rather than loosening.  

--bonnie

    re .13
    
    Baby juices are expensive, but they are fortified if you read the
    label.  Consumer Reports issue on the ALAR scare has some good hints
    about juices. 
    
    Rochelle

Hi, I have a 2.9 yr old that has a problem with constipation... He's never 
had a problem until I switched Day care- all the other child are potty
trained except for him... I have tried to train  him a few months ago but he 
wasn't ready.  I didn't want to start potty training him until he started
at his new daycare(Which he likes very much), I wanted to give him time to 
adjust.   He went three day with out a Bowel movement and was extremely
uncomfortable crying etc.... I'm not sure why this is happening- there
has been no change in diet.  His doctor seems to think it could be related
to his new daycare, he's the only one in diapers... He might feel pressured.


Has anyone come across something like this?  What do I do next... I
don't want to put any pressure on him...

/DD

    
    re. 16
    I kind of agree with .13 about regular baby juices.
    The amount of vit C they add to the juice is insignificant.
    Mott's is a brand that doesn't use Alar-ed apples.
    I think buying regular baby juice is a waste of money and resources
    in packaging. Gerber or Heinz never guarantee that
    their food is organic or free from pesticides. There is a manufacturer 
    of organic baby food. I forgot the name, but they sell them at Stars
    Market, if someone is interested.
    
    
    Eva.
    
    

    Well, I mentioned in my reply (.12) that I was concerned that the
    quantity was so little for a week... I should know that what goes in,
    must come out!  Not only did she have a bm on Wednesday, but Thurday,
    Friday, Saturday and Sunday!!!  Especially Saturday and Sunday, it
    seemed like she pooped in every diaper!  No diarrhea, just lots of
    poop.  I guess I didn't know when I had it good, changing one poopie
    diaper every 5 or 6 days.  Needless to say, the prunes have been put
    away and the rice cereal and applesauce are back!
    
    Now if I can figure out what the right mixture of foods she needs for
    her to be regular...
    
    Jane (Who's riding the "maturing digestive system see-saw")

    If you're getting tired of prunes, someone else mentioned dates, also
    in the same family are apricots, figs, and undiluted apple juice would
    work better than applesauce, which is cooked to process.  FYI, Veryfine
    is also among the ALAR free manufacturers, and because they are local
    to the Massachusetts area, they tend to be fairly well priced.  But if
    you want it to taste good too nothing beats eating chocolate!!
    
    For occational constipation, with lots of time "inbetween" doctors will
    generally recomend, in this order, a dose of colace which is a stool
    softener available in liquid form, followed by a glycerine suppository. 
    I can never forget my brother inlaws comment after his first experience
    with a glycerine suppository and their infant daugter, he said that he
    was going to loan his daughter to the navy as a *torpedo launcher*!!
    
    For the parent concerned that the 2.5 year old could be developing a
    complex because he's the only one in diapers, well I say, (and quote
    the potty-training pyscologist too) No child under 3 has a system
    mature enough to be dry and clean all the time, that's simply a "social
    stygma"....my translation don't harp on it, when he's ready he'll be clean 
    and dry, and to make a big deal of it will only cause psycological 
    problems down the line!
    
    Lyn (who's been there!!)
    

    
    Has anyone out there had an infant who has had a problem with
    constipation and have it cause GREAT pain to them???  I mean 
    "death screams" come out of this child! 
    
    It started about 3 weeks of age (we were first worried it was colic).
    He would scream/cry and tighten up his whole body for hours at a time.
    He would try to drink his bottle and whimper through the whole thing,
    if he even could finish it. It was so bad sometimes he couldn't even
    eat.
    
    Until we figured out what it was I thought I had given birth to a devil
    child. But once he would poop he would be fine. (and they were "hard").
    A friend suggested the "thermometer" method, and its usually the only 
    thing to help for an instant cure (to stop his pain/screams).  (God, I
    HATE having to do that to him!).
    
    We switched formulas 3 times, from Iron, to no iron, to soy. Tried the
    Karo Dark corn syrup, water etc...(all on suggestions frmo the pedi)
     Not much luck. 
    
    The doctor put him on fruits at his one month check-up. Fruits that
    begin with "P". Said to try pears first, then prunes if that didn't
    work.   It was real hard to get into him at first being so young, 
    he didn't know how to eat from the spoon yet. But eventually it seemed
    to work for awhile.  
    
    So now he is almost 3 mos, eating his fruit much better, but we still 
    haven't seemed to conquer this yet. I'm starting to wonder if by chance
    this could have anything to do with "tension" ?????  Anyone ???  
    Reason being, that he seemed to be doing well until -Thanksgiving, then
    -the week of Christmas, then -the week of new years...and now Tues on
    his first day of Daycare. ??????  Through the holidays we were out
    visiting etc...he was being held alot, etc...(you know how relatives
    are)....and there was the obvious tension of the season.  
    
    These "death screams" are AWFUL. He seems like he is in SO much pain.
    Grabbing on your shirt for dear life. (my husband has lost quite a few
    chest hairs since!) :-).  Sometimes the "cry" isn't as recognisable,
    and it takes me awhile to figure it out... Once I do, I have to do the 
    "thermometer trick" and hes fine afterwards.   I try to hold off on the 
    thermometer as long as I possibly can...#1 because I HATE doing it to 
    him (just looks SO uncomfortable!)...and #2 I don't want him to get
    used to it...  But sometimes its the only thing to get him out of the
    pain.    It was pretty tough on me Tues afternoon, my first day back to
    work, rush home to see him, and within 5 mins in the door the death
    screams started. 
    
    Has anyone had this much of a problem with constipation/pain,?? And
    have any other suggestions other than those listed in here already??? 
    Last night I tried 1/2 ounce of prune juice in his bottle...we'll see 
    how it works today....
    
    Also, how old do they have to be before you try mineral oil, or
    suppositories???
    
    Chris
    

    Hmm, the thermometer trick sounds kind of strange.  When Marc was
    constipated (don't remember exactly when, maybe at about 1 yr.?),
    mineral oil did the trick almost immediately.  Ask your pedi.

    I doubt very much it's tension or stress or anything psychological.
    People vary a lot in how much, how often and how easily they excrete,
    even on similiar diets.
    
    How long was he off iron?  It may take a while for the constipating
    effect of iron to wear off.  Adults with this problem are advised to
    increase fluids and to exercise mildly.
    
    		-John Bishop

    
    The doctor told me that what the "thermometer trick" does is stimulate
    their bowel muscles, showing them "where" to push. When they are so
    young (1-6 mos old) they dont know to push themselves, and are usually
    just prompted naturally by their bodies when they eat(not always, but).
    
    Its really sad when you and your husband have to sit there and "root"
    your child on to poop. But, seeing him in pain is worse. 
    I only do it when its neessary.
    
    

    RE: exercise
    
    I've read that exercise does help. Try 'bicycling' your baby's legs.
    May get things moving.

My mother suggested using a parsley stem instead of the
thermometer.  It does the same thing, but there's not
as much fear that you'll hurt the baby.

My daughter seems to have a tendency to get constipated,
so we include some Karo syrup in every bottle which
seems to help. She goes usually once a day, but can
go as long as 3 days between movements.  Also, adding
fruit to her diet has helped.

    Does this bring back memories. My daughter now 2.5 years old has always
    been constipated. I have used the thermometer method on her since she
    was 5 days old. Switching to low iron did not help too much. We did
    increase the amount of water she drank - give it to her warm - warm
    water seemed to help slightly. 
    
    My mother-in-law who was with us to help with the baby used to massage
    her each day with special oil that she had gotten from India and
    massaged her tummy very gently and also exercised her with the
    "bicycling" moves. But she always had a bowel movement either once a
    day or once in two days. Even now she will have a bowel movement once
    in 2 days if she does not drink much fluids or not eat raisins or
    spinach.
    
    We started solid food for her at age 4 months and fed her spinach quite
    a bit and that helped (veggies in general) helped a lot. But for the
    1st 4 months of her life it was fluids and the thermometer with
    vaseline or petroleum jelly at the worst.
    
    Like the pedi said - "It all has to come out some day". She advised us
    that if a bowel movement does not occur in 4-5 days then to check with
    the pedi. We never did use mineral oil since we did not know about it.
    
    Shaila

re.21:

This happened to our son, David, at 6-7 months while visiting Zurich. A local
pharmacy recommended some suppositories specially made for babies. It worked
(still does).

/Dave.

Chris,

Does this bring back some memories.  My advice is to have your baby examined
by a pediatric gastroenterologist (sp).  If you need a referral, insist that
your pediatrician recommend one.  If you contact me off-line, I will give you
the name of the one I use.

My son, who is now 9 1/2, was constipated for the first six months of his
life.  I complained at every visit to the pedi's and we tried everything
that was mentioned here and more.  Then on Thanksgiving weekend, he just got
worse with constipation, then vomiting.  A trip to the emergency room where
I met a pediatric surgeon showed that he had a problem with his colon from
birth.  He was admitted and tested and was discovered to have Hirschsprungs
Disease (colon disorder that is not that common).  To make a very long story
short, he was treated over the course of the next two years until corrective
surgery was performed at 2 1/2 years old. He is fine now and was fine then
once the root of the problem was discovered and treated.

Dont get alarmed at this.  I also have a 2 year old daughter who had bouts 
of constipation from the start and showed the same kind of discomfort as
your baby.  Based on past history, we took her when she was 2 weeks old to the
same specialist who did not find any symptons to suggest she had the same
problem as our son, but she was suffering from constipation more than usual.
He put her on a formula (nutramagen (sp?) which worked extremely well and is
expensive) and monitored her progress for the first year.  Basically, I would 
call him every month and he, not the pedi, decided when to start her on fruits, 
meats, juices...etc.  He kept her off whole milk until she was 1 year old.  I 
followed his advice and had very few problems with constipation throughout
that first year.  It was interesting to talk to him because his daughter was
born a week before mine so he had first hand experience at all of the diff
stages.  He also admitted that he was a little more conservative at intro-
ducing new foods..etc then the pedi but that was okay by me.

Please, I dont mean to alarm you with this but I do think its important to 
get the opinion of a specialist.  If you want to talk more about this offline, 
call me at 297-5895 or send vaxmail since I do work a part-time schedule.

Jennie

    My daughter (now 5.5) is allergic to yogurt.  She used to scream.
    My pedi recommended prune juice, which I used to dilute.  To this
    day she loves prune juice and helps herself to it when she feels
    uncomfortable.
    
    Chin up!
    Diana

    I second Jennie's recommendation, especially knowing Jennie personally
    and what she and her family has been through with this.  Reading
    this note reminded me of her son and his problem as a baby. 
    
      
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Pat K.

    My first, a boy, moved his bowels several times a day.  My second, also
    a boy, would go once a week - sometimes waiting as long as nine days. 
    Both had the same environment, mother ate the same foods and breast fed
    the same, ...  Today both are healthy, great athletes, great students,
    ... Interestingly, their psychological differences seem to reflect
    this.  The older one has little interest in traditions, in holding on
    to things but also is constantly losing things.  The second loves
    traditions, collects many things, knows where EVERYTHING in the house
    is, and never loses anything.  
    
    I too was worried but as their diets increased in whole grains, fruits,
    and vegies their rhythms became closer.  The elder is now 12 and moves
    twice a day (my guess - I don't keep track anymore) while the second is
    10 and seems to be about once a day.  BTW - my third, a girl, was
    normal throughout those formative years.

    
    Well, the prune juice the other night in his bottle seemed to help.
    Just did that one night. And had my babysitter give him prunes for his
    fruit the rest of the week. But by Saturday, after him doing so well
    for 4 days (soft, mushy, lg quantity) I thought I'd give him some Pears
    for a change....Yesterday his stools were small and hard again. ???
    Luckily it didn't cause the "death screams", just a few whimpers...but
    still.   So...I think I may just have to keep up with the prunes every
    single day...  Maybe I will just give him the prune juice in his bottle
    like the other night, so that he can still have a variation of fruits.
    So far I haven't pushed the cereal yet, the dr told me that when he 
    starts drinking over 32 oz a day..and so far he isn't..so...  I did
    try some a few weeks back, just to see how he took to it, but he got a
    bit backed up..so...  The doctor also said to give him "barley" for the 
    least constipation. (got it tastes BAD!!!!)
    
    THanks Jennie for the advice and sharing your story...if it gets any
    worse, I will definatly call you. 
    
    Oh...from reading these replies, I wanted to add: I wasn't (and am not)
    concerned if he doesn't go "every" day...I know that its common for
    kids to go a couple of days in between...  But its the "death screams"
    that worry me the most. And he seems to need to move them every day
    (he's had 2 days in 3 mos that he didn't move em) to stay happy.
    
    Thanks for all the replies, keep em coming!
    
    Chris
    (Michaels mom, whose first question is always.."did he go today?") :-)
    

Well, the story of the prunes reminds me of my dear departed grandma.  She
felt that every child needed a daily dose of stewed prunes to keep 'um regular.
My brothers, sisters and myself (and we were eight children) were unfortunately
the exception to this rule because we were as regular as the sun.

Well, every time grandma came to visit, we got a daily dose of prunes and then
began the queue for the one toilette in the place :-)

ccb

    Just FWIW, a hundred or so years ago when I worked in a hospital.  We
    were always told that if prune juice wern't available, or the patient
    didn't like it, to offer apple juice.
    
    From both that experience, and from real-life motherhood experience, it
    really is true! (maybe that's why AJ was in the bathroom so much the
    last couple days.  He's had a cold and I've been "pushing"
    fluids...apple juice that is!)
    
    Lyn

    I had a similar problem with my son.  I put a teaspoon of light
    Karo Syrup in one or two bottles a day and it cleared up the problem in
    about 2 days.  We continued this till he was taking lots of fruits and
    veggies.
    
    Kathy
    

    I just wanted to relate what happened to us, the last (might be only)
    time we had a problem with this.  I told so many times of AJ's history,
    and up until recently he's had problems keeping clean.
    
    After his recent surgery, we brought him home and felt it really was
    too soon of a discharge, but oh well ya can't buck the system.  I
    realized that he really hadn't gone in over two days.  Very unusual
    since he usually goes 3 to 4 times a day.  So we decided instead of the
    man made type laxitives, we'd try a "natural" approach.  So I hauled
    out the apple juice, he ate 6 prunes (and wanted more), I kept feeding
    him yogurt, gave him metamucil cookies, whole grain toast etc.  Well
    let me tell you IT WORKED...and worked...and worked and on and on,until
    I thought he'd never stop!  Poor kid was awakened at least 4 times
    after he went to sleep to run to the bathroom.  Of course this was most
    likely a result of the anesthesia, and the fact the food in the
    hospital was mostly white starchy things like white toast, mac'n
    cheese, we buy only whole grain things at our house.  I was relieved in
    one way that we had achieved our goal, but the other part of me kept
    saying "so how do we stop this thing?!"  Fortunately he was much more
    normal in the morning.  
    
    But the good news here actually it's GREAT, he has had little or NO
    soiling accidents since the surgery.  I don't know what the corelation
    is, but finally at almost his fifth birthday he's finally clean.  I
    haven't put a diaper doubler in his underwear in weeks, and haven't
    even bothered to buy any since.  We always knew eventually he'd stop
    having "accidents", but never thought it would end quite like this.
    
    (for those of you not yet bored enough, he had a colostomy from birth
    to almost 18 months, and his intestines were more those of a 3.5 year
    old, not a 5 year old, so he was frequently having soiling accidents)
    
    Lyn

    Lyn,
    	That is great news about AJ's progress!  He must be psyched.
    		Linda

    
    re. .36 Kathy,
    
    I have tried the Karo syrup with no luck. Even putting it in EVERY
    bottle.
    
    So far it seems like my best results are coming with the Prune Juice 
    in his bottle at night, and/or feeding him prunes (baby food) every 
    day.   Like someone entered, looks like it might be :
    
    	A Prune a day, keeps the constipation away!
    
    Chris
    (Who would enjoy never hearing those "death screams" again!)
    
    Thanks for all your replies...
    (Now to look up notes on TEETHING...if its not one thing its another)
    
    :-)  (But I wouldn't trade Motherhood for the world!!!)
    
      

    
    Hi,
    My name is Rivka,and I have a 3 months old (old???) baby girl who does
    get constipated every once in a while.When it happens the screams can
    "wake up the dead"!!!I used to use the thermometer method but now I 
    have come up with the greatest thing (for Yahli that is...) I give her
    half a tomato every day.Only half since she is only 3 months,but it
    does help-it's been almost 2 weeks with "one poop a day".She loves
    tomatoes and it helps,so why not? 
    It is not a medical advise,but my mom says that when I was a baby her
    peddi had told her something like "you'll treat your baby the same as
    you treat yourself" (in Hebrew it sound better...),and tomatoes are
    great for MY relief so...
       Hope it gets better.
    Rivka (or in my new name "Yahli's mother...) 

    I would like to get a little bit of advice from some veterans out
    there.  I have a four month old daughter who was breastfed up until
    three months.  We have since discovered lactose intolerance.  This
    showed itself in the form of severe exzema.  I changed her from
    Enfamil w/iron to Isomil w/iron.  She took the switch fine because
    she is a greedy eater.  This was just yesterday.  
    
    Anyway, she woke up this morning screaming.  This is a child that
    wakes up laughing and smiling EVERY day so I was really distraught.
    As I was changing her diaper I noticed she was in the middle of passing
    a particularly hard stool (they have been super soft up until now).
    She was still screaming I left the diaper on until she finished.  It
    took her twenty minutes to finish her bowel movement and she screamed, 
    cried, and cllutched at me the entire time.  She even started rooting 
    for the breast again, (I was cuddling her the whole time).  
    
    I have read tat it is not a good idea to give and infant a laxative
    so what am I going to do?  I can't deal with seeing Kayla like this
    again.  Especially the way she reverted back to rooting.  My baby
    looked desperate.
    
    Katrina

    It has been a long time it seems since my son Daniel (now five) was
    a baby, but I distinctly remember him having a bout with formula 
    containing iron.  I was buying regular formula w/o iron, but accidently
    grabbed one with iron.  Well, the day that I used the formula with
    iron Daniel had very hard stools and was a very unhappy
    camper.  I phoned the pedi and he said that iron often hardens the
    stools and so suggested that I try Isomil soy formula since Daniel
    seemed to be having crampy stomach even with the regular formula.
    (I should add that I was still breastfeeding, but using the formula
    to supplement.) Daniel seemed to be able to handle the soy formula much
    better than the regular formula without iron and of course those
    awful BM's went away too. 
    
	
    Hope this helps!
    
    -Elizabeth

    
    Katrina...
    
    I had *some* problems with Michael in this area when he was 3 weeks old
    and I'll tell you what worked for us. There is another note in here
    somewhere that has a whole bunch of suggestions too...(anyone know
    which one??)
    
    Sounds to me like its the iron in the formula first of all. That was
    the first thing they did with Michael was to take him off the iron
    type and put him on low iron. Then when that didn't work we went to 
    soy based. (He's been on Nursoy ever since).  It usually takes a couple
    of days to get into their system, so in the meantime you may want to
    give her an ounce or so of prune juice in her bottle until then. That 
    always worked for Michael. That and feeding him fruit. My pedi started
    Michael on fruits at just 1 month old (yep, jar fruit). He was tough at
    learning how to get it off the spoon at first, but worked into it soon
    enough.  Another thing my doctor suggested was fruits that begin with
    "P".  Pears, Peaches,plums, prunes. Said they would help clear out the
    system.   Another choice is to put some dark Karo syrup in their
    bottle. (although, this never worked for Michael).   If you get to a
    desperate stage where is sounds like you had, you can try taking her
    temp rectally. This stimulates her bowel movements and helps her push
    it out faster. My pedi said this also shows them "where" to push. All
    they know is they are in pain and don't like it..they don't knwo how to
    relieve it like we do.  We had to do this with Micheal so many times in
    the beginning. But it was easier than hearing the poor little thing
    scream his heart out for hours. 
    
    But it really sounds like you may just have a formula problem here,
    talk to your pedi about switching to low iron, or soy...  
    
    Good luck!  I haven't had a problem with Michael and this since
    January, but I try to keep up on it. I pretty much give him Prunes
    about once - twice a week just to "make sure".  Or as soon as I start
    noticing it get too solid.   This was a major problem with him for a
    long time, that I'm glad has improved greatly. 
    
    Chris

    A quick note about soy formula - most of them (Isomil and Prosobee)
    have iron in them.  Read the labels on the can.
    
    Julie

    
    I'll have to check Nursoy tonight and see if there is any iron in it.
    
    Chris
    
    

    
    
    	Talk to your doctor befor you change to a no Iron formula, a baby
    needs iron, try a low iron formula, this is waht we had to do with both
    of my boys. For Billy we also added a teaspoon of Karo and for him this
    did help alot.

    Thank-you, All
    
    Kayla IS on a soy formula.  She has a lactose intolerance.  I was an
    absolute mess last night because after another one of "those sessions"
    there was blood one the wipe besides the skin around her anal area was
    raw.  I was figuring the worst and called the emergency room.  Then I 
    spoke to my father and he suggested that I try a little preparation-H
    just inside the opening and around the raw area at the onset of a BM.
    (My father is an RN).  This morning we (Kayla and I) started going 
    another round and I did just what my dad said.  Seemed to do the trick.
    No screaming this time, no blood and towards the end of the BM the
    stools were looser (thank heavens).  Hopefully her little self is now
    adjusting to the formula.  
    
    I appreciate all the advice and concern.
    
    Katrina

It's not either/or.  Soy formulas often have *added* iron.

Iron is needed for *older* babies, but not for young infants.  

        Carol

    I think the iron issue depends on what your doctor thinks.  My doctor
    was very adamant that our son be on a formula with iron, but once we
    had to switch to soy formula due to lactose intolerance we were not
    even offered the choice as the soy formulas that are available to us
    all have added iron.  Our son has been on iron formula since about 1
    month and would have been from birth except that we bought a case of
    the formula without iron and the doctor said to finish the case and
    then to buy it with the added iron. 
    
    Julie

    
    I have a question..(which may be a stupid one, but...)
    
    If your child is diagnosed with a Lactose intolerance (put on soy)
    does this mean you will have a hard time, or not be able to put them 
    on whole milk when the time comes...???   Michael has been on soy since
    3-5 weeks old, and I was looking forward to him turning 9 mos and we
    being able to do away with the high prices of formula and switching to
    milk...(my doctor says 9 mos is okay)....
    
    Chis
    
    

    Chris,
    
    Funny you should ask this as we just got back from a doctor's visit
    last night (to check his ears - YEAH! they are clear at the moment). 
    Anyway, Nathan was put on soy formula about 1 1/2 months ago due to
    severe diarrhea from his reaction to the antibiotic Suprax.  The doctor
    at the time said that the diarrhea had washed away the enzyme that
    Nathan (any child) needs to digest milk products.  He told us to give
    it some time with Nathan being on soy and then try to go back to the
    regular.  Well, on Sunday we finally tried to go back to the regular
    formula.  Nathan did fine, but then yesterday had 5 very loose BMs.  We
    weren't sure if the loose BMs were a direct result of the formula
    change or not (hard to tell with Nathan :-) ).  After asking the doctor
    about this, he said to switch Nathan back to soy for the remainder of
    his first year.  This, of coarse, made me think of what we would do
    once he hit one year old and he could be off formula altogether.  So I
    asked the doctor.  His response was that 20% of the population is
    lactose intolerant.  At the year mark, we will try Nathan on regular
    milk and if he still has a reaction then the doctor said that we will
    be purchasing Lactaid - just drop a tablet in his milk and he will be
    fine.  I'm sure that it's going to be more complicated than that
    (making sure to always carry with me this enzyme), but the doctor
    seemed to think it would be no big deal and that we will just have to
    play the wait and see game.
    
    
    Hope this answers some of your questions.
    Julie

    Most babies who go from breast to bottle early in their first year are
    recommended soy.  My first was on soy from 3 weeks to 9 months.  We
    gradually weaned him to cow's milk (never used whole - too heavy for
    him) at that time and he has no problems with ANY kind of lactose today
    (he's almost 7).  My second was on formula (similac) from birth and
    went to milk at 9 months (again, not whole - too heavy).  He's now 5
    and never had any lactose problems.  It all depends on the kid.  You,
    too, will have to wait and see.
    
    -sandy
    

    
    	Both Marc and I are lactose intolerant and I have a milk allergy as
    well. Spencer has always been on Soy formula, because with the
    probablility of milk problems being so high, who wants to take a chance
    with stomach aches, cramps and mucous formation?
    
    	Having a lactose intolerant kid (or partner for that matter) is no
    great hardship. If you want to switch off of formula use Soy milk or
    goats milk (sold in health food stores). Ice cream is replaced with
    frozen yogurts (be careful to check ingredients some add milk products)
    and cheeses are kept to a minimum (or again, use soy cheeses). For the
    most part, lactose intolerant people can tolerate a little of dairy
    product before they get sick and so you just learn to cut way back on
    the recipes. There are some very good milk free cookbooks out there.
    
    	I have not had much success with the lactase drops (Lactaid) but my
    mother swears by them (lactose intolerance is genetic - my entire
    family has it).
    
    			Wendy

    I'm lactose intollerant, but can drink the Lactaid skim milk.  My son
    David was diagnosed as lactose intollerant at about 1 month of age, so
    went on soy.  At 1 year of age he apparently outgrew his intollerance
    and drinks whole milk without incident.  Much cheaper, agreed! 
    However, if your little one remains intollerant, Lactaid comes in quart
    containers at most markets, and although more expensive than regular
    whole milk it's still cheaper than formula. It comes in both regular
    and skim varieties. 
    Sarah

re .52

Sandy, 

    Can you please explain what you meant by "to heavy"?  I thought children
under the age of 2 needed the extra fat that whole milk has to offer.

- Carol

    Well, when they received whole milk they would be very gassy and more
    often than not the milk would cause spitting up.  In a 10-month old
    kid, that isn't necessary.  My kids were getting plenty of milk fat in
    cheeses, yogurt, cottage cheese, even ice cream.  Both kids drank 1 or
    2% (still do) and they are very well developed kids of normal
    intelligence.  We have never had health problems (even less than most
    kids their ages).  My sister is doing the same for her daughter.  The
    only difference with her daughter is she started out a peanut-sized
    kid and remains a peanut-sized kid - at just under 12 months - whereas
    mine were both on average or slightly above average is size/weight.
    
    -sandy
    

    I have a question about constipation in older children.My son has 
    been having a problem since right before christmas.At 18 months he
    became a very fussy eater,about the only things he liked were pasta
    and dairy products.His pedi said he needed more fiber.I tried more
    fruit,wholegrain bread,oatmeal,ect.He still turned down just about
    everything.
    
    She finally had me start giving him mineral oil.This has done the
    trick (plus he's eating a lot better now).I've cut back on his dose,
    to about 1 T a day.I've tried cutting back more but he get's 
    constipated again.You can tell he has to go but he stops himself.
    Then by the time he does go it seems to be to much to pass easily and
    sometimes causes him much discomfort.
    
    I'm concerned about having him still on the mineral oil,(it's been
    more than 2 months) but the pedi says it's alright.Even the bottle
    says it can be habit forming.Kevin goes for his 2 year check-up in
    May so I figure I'll just keep giving it to him until then if he
    seems to need it.
    
    Has anyone else run into this?
    
                       Barbara
    
    
    

    Barbara,
    
    We too have the mineral oil as part of our daily regime for Shannon.
    I have expressed concern to her pedi on several occassions and he says
    it won't cause a problem.  Not using it will cause her to hold back
    (because of pain) and that far outweighs the risk of dependence.  His
    opinion has always been to try and ween her from time to time.  When
    she is ready to go on her own, she will.
    
    I would welcome anyone's experience that conflicts with mine.
    
    -beth
    

    My daughter, Avanti who will be 3 in June has always been constipated.
    She does not "go" every 24 hours - it is more like 36 hours - but we
    know that it is normal for her. We do make sure that she drinks a lot
    of fluids and raisins have always done the trick. We had gotten into a
    ritual of eating raisins as an after-dinner snack since she does not
    eat desserts. The days she ate raisins she would go every 24 hours. We
    never used mineral oil or any such thing in her food ever. 
    
    Shaila

    Before we tried the mineral oil Kevin was eating raisins,fruit ect
    fairly well.But he would go 4-5 days without a bm.It seems once they
    have had a couple painful bm's they're afraid to go so they will stop
    themselves.
    
    I've heard this can also happen when trying to potty train.We started
    giving him suppositories which he absolutely hated.We also tried some
    kind of all natural laxitive,I forget it's name,but it cost $30 for
    an 8 oz bottle and he refused to take it no matter how we disguised it.
    That's when the pedi recommended the mineral oil.
    
    Kevin's becomming a better eater but he's still pretty fussy.We try to
    eat fairly healthy food and I push the foods I know have fiber.Our
    favorites are fresh fruit,oatmeal,grahm crackers,whole grain bread and
    crackers.The only vegetable he likes is corn on the cob.I can't get
    him to touch any other vegies.(except in soup)
    
                           Barbara
    

<    Before we tried the mineral oil Kevin was eating raisins,fruit ect
<    fairly well.But he would go 4-5 days without a bm.

Not having a daily BM is not a problem.  It's only a problem when they have
painful BM's.  Many people don't have daily BMs, including me.  I used to think
everyone was like that, but only found out a year ago that this is not the
case.  It has never been a problem for me, and it is not uncommon for me to go
several days without a bowel movement. 

   Carol

AJ was, and still is on occationally, up to 2 TBS of mineral oil.  His is 5+ and
has been taking it, plus Fiberall, and/metamucil cookies recently,since he was
just over 2.  To date no ill effects, but occationally when we were tapering back
his does he would become just a little bit constipated.  We found for the most
part the oil was just about all that was needed.

Catch me off-line if you want more info on our trials and tribulations!
Lyn

Barbara,

You said (I think) that Kevin likes pasta.  Over here there are many whole grain 
pastas appearing now on the market.  You might try those instead of whole grain
bread.  I know that Markus won't eat whole grain bread because it has 
"millettes" (little pieces of things) in it but will eat other whole grain
things when they are of a uniform consistancy.

Regarding the milk question, I fed both boys whole UHT milk when they went off
formula at about 7 months with no problem.  UHT milk is milk that has been
sterilized and keeps without refridgeration for several months.  I think the
question of whole or skim milk is a matterof personal taste.  Now, my older
boy will only drink a partially skimmed milk and the younger will only drink
whole milk.

Also, if they are trying to push and it is painful, you might try rubbing a 
little vaseline around and just inside the anus.  This helps everything move a
little easier and protects rough surfaces.

Poor little ones..

ccb