Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    
      Try introducing him to the Tupperware sippy ups, show him how much
    fun they are. Leave the cover off it once in a while and see what
    happens, or leave the cover off and have a drink of juice or water
    along with him. Once he sees you drinking from a cup he'll give it 
    a try. Its not easy getting them off bottles sometime. Our 4 year old
    did it at 1 1/4, our two year old is about 75% there he follows big
    brother, but he spends the other 25% following his 8 month old sister.
    

    
    At Juli's 12-month checkup the Pedi asked "how well" she was doing with
    training cups.  We said "doing great, actually prefers them ... she's
    been using them since about 9+ months" ... he said "great, now get rid
    of the bottle ...".  I was floored.  AT 12 MONTHS!!!
    
    Well, we encouraged the training cup, but didn't get rid of the bottle
    until round about 14 months (just before Thanksgiving).  Jim got fed up
    about her bedtime fussy escapades & broke that habit in three nights ...
    and the following weekend she flung her bottle and demanded the
    training cup, at which time Jim willingly gave her the training cup and
    then proceeded to collect ALL bottles (full, empty, dirty, clean ...),
    put them in a bag and placed them on the curb for trash pickup!!  That
    was it ... no warning, no weaning, nothing!
    
    More suprising was ... Juli NEVER missed it!!!  Her babysitter's
    daughter (4 months older) still has a bottle and Juli's not the least
    bit interested (and wasn't even the day after the bottles 'went out').
    
    Maybe her young age and preference for a cup was the difference?
    
    Dottie
                                        

    Eric does drink from a tupperwear cup all day long in between the three
    bottles that I mentioned.
    
    In the morning when I try to give him milk in a cup he throws it on the
    floor, in bewteen having a screaming/crying fit.
    
    Lynne

    Getting them off bottles is definitely MUCH easier when they are young,
    and not yet as aware of their own power to control some of their
    environment.  I changed all three of mine over to "sippy" cups at 9
    months with no problem.  If they can hold a bottle, they can hold the
    covered cups, so as long as they are going to do it themselves they
    might as well have the cup.
    
    However, now that you are well past that age, you must deal with HIS
    desires.  I would handle it the way I handle anything I think he should
    not have a choice in: take away the bottle, offer the cup.  If he
    refuses the cup, then take it away and continue on to the next task of
    the morning.  As for throwing it on the floor, I wouldn't give him the
    chance.  You can tell if that is what he's planning...take it away
    before it happens, tell him he just blew the morning drink, and walk
    away.  Offer it again in about 15 minutes (or when he decides to be a
    human being again).  I have found that the temper tantrums stop when
    they become ineffective on Mom and Dad.  Once it becomes obvious to him
    that the bottle is not an option (which it still appears to be now), he
    will probably find somthing else to drive you nuts!
    
    Be careful, potty training follows much of the same principles!
    
    -Laura

We took Matt off the bottle "cold turkey" at 15 months.  We hid all of the
bottles and told him they were all gone.  He threw a couple of fits when he 
couldn't have a bottle, usually in the evening.  He stopped using bottles at 
daycare 9 mos. earlier and was just using them at home.

Anyways, the "fits" ceased in about 2 days, and we never looked back.

� �ori �

    It's been my experience with my three kids that the migration to a
    cup will proceed about in pace with language development.  A child
    who is still working on the fine muscle control in his or her
    mouth area sometimes has trouble swallowing effectively and
    squishes half the liquid back out -- very frustrating.
    
    It also keeps pace with how fast the bottles break, get lost, or
    otherwise vanish from circulation due to natural causes.  David's
    down to three physical bottles, from which he has usually two
    drinks -- morning milk and afternoon juice.  Sometimes water when
    he's feeling fussy and ill.  I figure in a couple of months he
    won't even want that much.  
    
    Some kids hate sippy cups.  Steven loved them for the little
    trickly designs he could make from the contents, but he wouldn't
    drink from them.  David's not too fond of them.  He's going pretty
    much straight to the regular cup.
    
    --bonnie

    Joshua was also a "bottle monster", but when we tried to force him to
    give them up (at about 13 mos.), he couldn't drink well from a cup yet
    (he had *no* interest in learning either). Dr. said take bottle away,
    he'll drink from a cup if he's thirsty. Well, josh had other ideas. Got
    so dehydrated, almost needed hospitalization! We went back to the
    bottle, despite the guilt trips our dr.s office laid heavily on us. He
    gave them up gradually. We cut one out at a time. He gave them up for
    good at about 22 mos. 
    
    Carrie gave them up with little fuss at about 18 mos., but was drinking
    well from a cup. We just offered liquids in cups instead of bottles,
    and she pretty well took it okay. Both she and Josh could ask for a
    bottle at the age they gave them up, and that did complicate it....no
    playing dumb on our part! But eventualy she stopped asking. We hid them
    away, so she could not see them anymore.
    
    Daniel gave his up at 14 mos. with not a problem at all. He used a
    sippy great, and we just (cold turkey) gave him a cup one day instead
    of the bottle. No fuss no muss! By the way, Daniel was not talking at
    all at the time (I mean *nothing*!) and still isn't much, although he
    now can ask for "yuice" meaning any drinkable substance. To a point I
    agree with Bonnie that ability to talk and mouth control sufficient to
    give up bottle are related, but not always! Daniel has an older bro.
    and sis. to talk for him....so why should he bother?!?!?
    
    If he's drinking well from a cup, make up your mind if you are really
    serious about ditching the bottle....serious enough to stand a few days
    of nasty behavior. If "yes", then hide those bottles, and *do not* use
    them again! Offer a cup, if he throws a tantrum, calmly tell him he can
    have it when he's ready, and offer it a bit later. He *will* use it if
    he's thirsty enough. Our Josh's problem was he wasn't proficient at it,
    ("it" being cup drinking) and just wasn't ready to be, and that's why it 
    didn't work with him. Dont' kid yourself! If you weaken and give in,
    even once, your job will be triply hard next time you try, so only
    attempt with iron resolve!
    And we wish you lots of luck, and maybe a good set of earplugs!
    
    --dave--

    For Eric, we dropped the evening and the noon ones around 1 year old.
    We kept the morning one until he was 15 month.  By then, he was
    pretty good with the cup and really didn't need the bottle.  We
    then went "cold turkey".  One morning, we offered him a cup 
    instead of a bottle and told him all the bottles were gone.
    He seemed to care less.  My suggestion is to drop one bottle at a
    time.  Maybe start with the evening one, then the noon one, finally
    the morning one.  Do whatever is most comfortable for you.
    
    Wendy

    
    I have an amusing story about weaning from the bottle.  I have a friend
    who is a dentist.  He insisted that our son should give up anything but
    plain water in his bottle by 12 months.  We followed his advice
    literally and suffered like .0 noter is.  We visted our dentist friend
    at Christmas time, he and his wife now have 2 boys 1.5 and 3 yrs. THEY
    BOTH WERE DRINKING MILK OUT OF BOTTLES! When I threatened him with
    bodily harm, he mumbled something about how he changed his viewpoint
    after having 2 kids in 18 months or something.  Obviously it didn't
    pacify me.
    
    The ironic part about this story is that both boys were breastfed 
    until 10 and 11 months.  
    
    BTW, once we switched to boring water in his bottle, my son gave it
    up pretty easily.
    
    Rochelle
    

    Our pedi. also recommended that we wean Steven at 12 mos.
    she also suggested that we just pack the bottles away instead
    of taking them away 1 by 1.
    
    We decided to wait til after the holidays, and after a
    weekend of listening to him demanding "ba-ba" every
    1/2 hour, we took him off cold turkey.  He could have
    cared less.  He still asks for ba-ba, but excepts the
    cup.
    
    Maybe you could try just packing the bottles away and
    if he gets thirsty enough, and is only offered a cup,
    he'll have to accept them eventually.
    
    Good luck!
    Linda

    Anybody out there have a child that will drink some liquids from a cup
    but insists on milk from the bottle ?  Cory, 16 months, will drink
    juice & water from his cup but absolutely refuses milk in the cup.
    
    The other evening, he asked me for some milk.  I said "okay, I'll get
    you a cup of milk".  He said "no, ba-ba".  
    
    He currently drinks two bottles of milk per day, a morning & an
    evening.  The evening bottle is usually just before bed-time and is
    followed by teeth-brushing (actually, just chewing on the tooth-brush
    while I try to "show" him where to brush).
    
    My doctor hasn't pushed to get him off the bottle altogether.  I would
    definitely like to get him to drink milk from a cup.
    
    - Terry
    
    P.S.  I've tried every brand of sippy cup & also tried giving him the
    cup without the lid.  He definitely thinks that a cup is for
    juice/water.

    This is a update to weaning Eric off the bottle. It is Thursday
    morning, we started last Saturday. The evening bottle has been no
    problem at all. The nap time bottle Saturday and Sunday were a problem,
    but we lived through it. The morning bottle has been the problem,
    Saturday and Sunday he was fusssy about wanting his bottle , Monday,
    Tuesday, and Wednesday he became a "MONSTER", today Thursday he did'nt
    fuss at all drank his milk from a sippy cup and ate cheerios while
    watching Disney. 
    
    So maybe he is getting use to the idea of not having a bottle. Lets
    hope!
    
    Thank you for all your support, advice, and stories.
    
    I know when number 2 gets here I will do things differently. I have
    learned a lesson myself with this experience.
    
    Lynne

    re .11 When we were switching Jason over to a cup, he would not drink
    milk from the cup, ONLY from the bottle.  He eventually gave up the
    bottle, but unfortunately, also gave up a lot of his milk intake as a
    result of this.  It may not have been the greatest thing to do, but
    what we ended up doing was using a small orange juice glass, and told
    him it was a special Milk Glass, and he seemed to accept that ok.
    
    When Christopher was about 11 mos old, he was EXTREMELY frustrated with
    his bottle, and could never get enough fast enough.  After about 2 days
    of 'he throws the bottle, we get it and try to feed him again', we gave
    up, switched him over to a regular cup (he HATED the covers!), and
    never looked back again.
    
    Jason gave up his bottle pretty much cold-turkey, but every now and
    then would ask for it again.  After about a month of that, he was done.
    
    I think it's their personalities.  Christopher has made ALL of his
    'changes' cold-turkey.  Jason has always done this progress, regress,
    progress routine.  Christopher crawled for 2 mos, walked and never
    crawled again.  Jason crawled for a while, stood for a while, crawled,
    walked a bit, crawled, walked a bit more, mixed the 2 for about a
    month, and _then_ he was off.  It's been a lot easier to deal with him
    if you understand how he adjusts to changes.
    
    For the 2nd one, start looking for signs to dispose of the bottle at
    about a year (give or take a few mos).  *GOOD LUCK*!!
    

 What is (almost) everyone's hurry?  What is wrong with a toddler who finds
 comfort in a bottle at certain times?  It does no harm to teeth, unless used
 for extended periods.  It does no harm to mental, moral, or physical
 development.  It does not suggest irresponsible parenting.  I can't see any
 reason not to let the child make the decision on when to stop.  Some do this
 at a fairly early age, and quite abruptly; this was certainly the case in .2,
 where it seems clear that Juli made the decision (for which Jim now wants the
 credit!).
 
 Some kids have a need for sucking that is stronger and more enduring than in
 others; any parent can force them to give up bottles, but you may just end up
 with other problems.  I'm sure an important reason my boys gave up bottles
 early (and on their own) was because they were allowed pacifiers.  I'm sure
 that extended pacifier use also kept them from becoming thumb suckers.
 
 		- Bruce
 

re: .14

I just had this funny feeling that there would be a note from Bruce that would 
say "What's the rush?".   ;^)

Some of the notes haved said that their pedi suggested getting rid of the 
bottle.  Does anyone know _why_ they suggested it?  I guess I have the same 
question Bruce does.

We continued to use "sippy cups" for a long time.  Our son is somewhat 
careless about knocking cups over, so if he were going to drink in the family 
room, we would insist on a sippy cup (the Tupperware kind).  Since it was not 
only his own cup that he knocked over, we also used them for our daughter, 
with the result being that she still used "sippy cups" when she was eight or 
nine.  She didn't care, and it didn't seem to do any harm.  They both use 
regular cups now.

Clay

    I'll second the "why rush?" from Bruce:  bottles don't drip as much
    when dropped, so you can use them in the car more easily, and bottles
    don't drip when packed, so you can take them places.  Further, they
    hold more, and if you turn them upside down, they don't drip a steady
    stream of liquid.
    
    My son is 15 months.  He drinks from a sippy-cup most of the time, but
    he gets a bottle of juice to drink in the car on the way home from 
    day-care, and a bottle of milk when he's feeling sick or tired (one or
    two nights a week).  It doesn't bother me that he still uses a bottle
    now and then, and I'm kind of puzzled that it would bother other people
    that a 12 month old baby still wanted a bottle.
    
    I get the impression that many people are worried that their child will
    miss a developmental milestone--is this it?
    
    		-John Bishop

    Well, I'll jump in and explain why my family doctor recommended moving
    off the bottle by 1 year - she said that up til that time, there is
    indeed a need for sucking. After that time, kids start to believe that
    the bottle is theirs, not yours, or not simply a device for drinking,
    and the weaning process becomes more of a power struggle than anything
    else.
    
    We introduced a cup at 8-9 months - the famous Magmag that I mention in
    every bottle/cup note in here :-).  By 12 months, Ryan only used the
    screw on nipple for morning feedings - the rest were all sippy. 
    Shortly after he was accidently given a sippy for breakfast, didn't
    think twice about drinking it anyway, and never saw a nipple again. 
    Like Bruce's boys, though, perhaps Ryan gave the bottle/nipple up
    easily since he had his pacifier for sucking comfort.
    
    We definitely noticed a decrease in liquid intake when he went to a
    cup, and for a while I frantically offered a sip every time he passed
    by me. As I became less obsessed about his intake, he began to drink
    more :-).  We also found that drinking with a straw was pure
    fascination for Ryan and still is, and he'll drink a gallon with it!
    

>    However, now that you are well past that age, you must deal with HIS
>    desires.  I would handle it the way I handle anything I think he should
>    not have a choice in: take away the bottle, offer the cup.  [...]

Indeed.  I wonder why this is such a critical matter that a child should
not have a choice in it.

	-Neil

By the way, you might also want to check out:

    59       FRAGLE::KUDLICH      25-JUN-1990    19  Weaning problems for mom an
d son
   211       ELMAGO::PHUNTLEY      1-AUG-1990    60  Out with the bottle!?

and maybe (I haven't checked the subject matter):

   377       RANGER::PELHAM       26-SEP-1990    29  Bottle advice needed!!!

    Okay - my kids had pacifiers also.  Jason (almost 3) still does, and
    probably will for a little while longer.  Christopher gave his up
    pretty willingly at 3.  We're going to try the same for Jason.
    
    As I said, Christopher was frustrated with his bottle, but the reason I
    was happy to get rid of them was just for the added work.  Instead of
    spending oodles of time washing bottles/nipples etc, I could spend that
    time with them.  No one seemed any the worse for it, so why KEEP them
    in a bottle?

    I remember spending hours carefully scrubbing and sterilizing
    Kat's feeding equipment, and then watching her share her bottle
    with the dog . . .  By the time the kid's over a year old, you
    don't need to do anything special with the bottles and nipples. 
    We just throw them in the sink or dishwasher with everything else. 
    So it isn't any more work for anybody.  
    
    It doesn't seem like a subject that really deserves much debate. 
    I prefer to let my kids set the pace, but if it were really
    causing more work for somebody, then stopping it would be
    reasonable.  It's not going to traumatize the kid to give it up,
    and it's not likely to keep her out of Harvard if she's still
    taking a morning bottle at 23 months :)
    
    --bonnie

re: .19

>    Instead of
>    spending oodles of time washing bottles/nipples etc, I could spend that
>    time with them.  No one seemed any the worse for it, so why KEEP them
>    in a bottle?

.0 and her son _did_ seem the worse for it, and spending time with a "monster, 
having fits, throwing everything, won't eat" doesn't exactly sound to me like 
time I'd want to spend with my son.


Clay

    My daughter, now 3 1/2, had her last bottle at 7 months.  We introduced
    the cup, as a play-thing, at 4 months, and once she learned to put the
    sippy part in her mouth, we started putting liquids (water, juice) in
    the cup.  At 7 months, she either had juice from a sippy cup or was
    breast-fed.  When I weaned her (onto formula) it was served in a cup.
    
    Unfortunately, with my twins, it was not as easy introducing the cup. 
    We just didn't have time to work with them on it.  Now I find that one
    of them will drink from the cup, whereas the other likes to make the
    cup drip and then play "connect the dots".  We've been very lax about
    the cup, until now.
    
    Over the last week, they (now 11 1/2 months) have both lost interest in
    their bottles/milk, dropping from 4 sucked-dry bottles/day to 3
    barely-finished ones.  So, I've decided that at each meal, I'll give
    them their cups with formula.  So far, as I said above, one drinks, the
    other plays.  Tonight, they both yelled for their bottles about an hour
    after dinner.
    
    I'm going to persevere, as *I* want them off bottles.  I sterilize
    nipples (I know you don't have to, but with two babies, I feel better
    about having some things clean).  I prepare 16 bottles every two days!! 
    Once they're on whole milk (when we run out of formula or in two weeks
    at their birthday, whichever comes sooner), cups will save me
    tremendous amounts of time that I can give to the babies or to my
    ever-patient daughter. 

    And the bottle/cup controversy rages on!!
    
    My experience -
    
    With my twins I gradually moved them from bottle to cup at about
    18months of age.  First by giving them cups with meals, just like mommy
    and daddy, but bottles in between.  Then gradually phasing out the
    between meal bottles to cups.  But they are pretty easy going babies,
    didn't make a great fuss.
    
    Number three child was another matter.  He formed attachments to
    things, namely his bottle and his blanket.  He was 3 years old before I
    finally got him totally off the bottle (and he has the teeth to prove
    it). Fussing, crying, not sleeping, carrying on - what a nightmare.
    He's 4 1/2 now.
    
    With my youngest I was determined this would not happen again.  At
    about 12 months I began introducing the cup to him.  Again, cup at
    mealtimes, bottle in between when he wanted somethnig to drink.  And
    gradually begin offering the cup instead of the bottle in between.  At
    17 months now he gets a bottle every two days or so, basically if I
    need to calm him down, or if I know that is what he needs.  I'm sure in
    a few more months the bottles will be a memory.
    
    I agree with a noter that a lot of this is the child's personality.  A
    lot of it is WHEN you begin weaning the child off the bottle too.   I
    believe there are optimum times, and if you sieze the moment you tend
    toward success.  If you don't sieze the moment, it passes you by and
    the bottle habit becomes more firmly entrenched.  You have to learn to
    recognize the moment!
    

    Bruce,
    I don't know why most pedi's tell moms and dads to wean by 12 mos., but
    I know ours (with our first, Josh) told us it was because, "you'll nver
    get him toilet trained when he's on a bottle". Sturck us as bizaree
    because at 12 mos. we never considered beginning toilet training! But,.
    being first time parents, we dutifully did as we were told, and really
    regretted it! We didn't with the next two...just sort of watched for
    when they were both fully competent in cup drinking, and getting that
    sort of "don't care if I do or I don't" have it feeling about their
    bottles. For what it's worth, al our kids were heavily into pacifiers.
    Josh gave his up at around two, because we simply couldn't find it one
    nite, and he apparently could'nt care less! Carrie simply asked for it
    less and less till she never asked agian. Daniel still uses it at
    sleeptimes or when he's sick, and he's 21 mos. He'll give it up when
    he's ready.
    
    For what it's worth, Josh did get off bottles entirely by age 2, and
    never toilet trained till 3.5! So much for *that* connection!
    
    --dave--

    My daughter's pedi is not concerned about her "getting off the bottle",
    only that she knows how to use a cup, which she does.  I know she
    prefers to drink from a cup (she's almost 16 months) but there are
    times when I would prefer her to have a bottle.  We get up very
    early during the weekdays (I work 7 - 3:30) and she has breakfast
    at her sitter's house, but I give her a bottle of milk for the
    drive to the sitter's.  A cup would not be feasible in the car.
    This is really the only time she drinks from a bottle, but even if
    it wasn't, I wouldn't be concerned.  I agree with Bruce, what's the
    rush?  Kids give up bottles when they're ready.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    At Marc's 15 month checkup, the pedi asked if he was still using
    bottles, and I (rather sheepishly) replied "well, yes", but the pedi
    thought it was fine.  Marc drinks very well from a regular cup, but
    seems to really get some comfort out of having a morning and
    before-bedtime bottle.  The pedi mentioned that if he was still
    drinking from a bottle by age 2, that we would start trying to nudge
    him off them (probably a teeth issue).  He _did_ mention, though, that
    sleeping with a pacifier wasn't the best idea because the length of
    time the pacifier is in his mouth could cause some problems with his
    upper palate and teeth.  He suggested having a goodbye pacifier ceremony
    and trying to get Marc atttached to some other cuddly object.  

    
    I don't have any kids 'yet' but I like the method my sister
    used from advice from her pedi.  Her doctor told her it is
    a more humane method than 'cold turkey'
    
    She diluted the bottle with water.  Every week added more water and
    less milk.  Only, his cup had real milk.  Eventually, he decided
    the bottle didn't 'taste' as good so he never missed it.
    
    Kristen

    This is a update for you on my son and his bottle weaning.
    
    Well, we lived through it. It took about 5 bad days and now
    we don't have a problem. This Saturday will be one month since
    we started weaning him. (So I guess five bad days aren't that bad to
    have suffered through.
    
    Lynne 

    I just went through (Hopefully we are through!) an interesting bottle
    weaning experience with my daughter. Maybe this happens with other
    children as well. Justine will be two on Saturday. She was breastfed
    until 18 months. After that she really started using a bottle at home.
    SHe really didn't use them at the sitter's which was good. I left the
    bottles go at home because she really liked them and I didn't see the
    harm. Well recently she started to ask for "apple juice baba" or "milk
    baba". I was really worried that I did the wrong thing in letting
    her keep them. So this weekend I just packed the last of the bottles
    away. When she asked for a bottle I just gave her a sippy cup. And I
    got no complaints. Anybody else have it this easy with a 2 year old?
    Of course we still have the pacifier. And for now we will still let her
    have it but we have been working on limiting the times.
    
    Jan

    My almost 16 month old went very easy to a sippy cup as well.  He only
    had the bottle in the morning and at night.  We had been giving him the
    cup all through the day, so it was very easy to cut out the morning and
    evening bottle.  He calls the cup a baba.  He also still has a
    pacifier.  (That will be the doozy)