Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Boy does this bring back memories.
    
    My daughter had bad colic episodes for what seemed like forever.  I
    think when she was around 1 year 4 months we realized that we couldn't
    remember the last time she had a problem with it.  Her pedi said at the
    time that it was unusual, but not unheard of, for the colic to last
    more than 6 months or so.
    
    Her pedi. recommended Mylicon and we swore by it for over a year. It
    certainly saved our sanity and her poor little belly.  The Mylicon helps
    to bring all the litte bubbles together into a few bigger bubbles that
    are easier for the baby to pass thru their system.  The trick was to not
    become dependant on it for every day, but only when a 'real' colic
    episode was in progress. 
    
    
    Best of luck.  
    
    Donna
    

    We have used the mylicon but have also been using a prescription
    (Donnatal Elixir) which is much stronger.  Our pedi. also said that
    teething can make the colic worse.  I guess the extra mucus irritates
    the digestive system as well.  Since she has been teething heavily (she
    has 8 teeth and more still coming) things have been much worse.  The
    "colic holds" are somewhat helpful but she just seems to be in so much
    pain.  It is really hard for us emotionally to see her go through it. 
    Altho I am sure it is no picnic for her either.
    
    Lauren

    We have the same problem with Neil.  It started when he was about 1
    month.  He'd cry inconsolably for hours usually between 10 PM and 3
    AM.  It was horrible -- both because it was frazzling to our nerves and
    because we knew he was in pain and we couldn't seem to help.  The
    doctor had us try Mylanta, then Mylicon drops, then finally a
    prescription that was stronger.  It cut the bad time down to about an
    hour -- still not a picnic, but much better than 5!
    
    Neil is almost eight months now.  He doesn't usually have multiple
    hours of crying anymore (even though he's off the prescription) but he
    still wakes up at night.  It's usually 2 or 3 times a night, but sometimes
    as many as eight!  He's just stopped feeding at night, but sometimes
    he's still up for an hour or so at a time.
    
    I'm afraid I don't have much advise about what to do.  When he was
    smaller, the thing that seemed to calm him down the most was when
    someone would hold him with his head in one hand and his bottom in the
    other.  We'd straighten our arms to hold him away from us, then move
    him up and down.  It sounds strange, but it almost always worked. 
    Unfortunately, it only worked while you were doing it -- once you
    stopped he'd cry again.  Made for strong arm muscles!
    
                                             Tracy
    
    P.S. What are "colic holds"?
                                       

    I must've had a terrible doctor, because Christopher had colic for
    about his first 9 mos.  The Dr said "It's colic"  Period.  No
    suggestions, no 'try this' or anything.
    
    Eventually we coincidentally switched to another Dr, and I mentioned it
    at a check up, and the Dr. said asked about his formula.  He was taking
    formula w/ iron (What the 1st pedi had 'ordered').  We were instantly
    told to change, and *VOILA* he was better almost overnight.  I guess
    technically it wasn't really colic, but just thought I'd mention it to
    make sure you're using the no-iron formula.  WHAT a difference!
    

    re .3, The prescription cut down the time of the colic attacks from
    hours to almost minutes - at least for a few months.  Now it takes 1/2
    an hour or so for the medication to begin working.  Kaitlin has
    recently stopped waking up many times at night.  A more typical night
    is getting up once, maybe twice.  I never attributed this to colic
    until recently.  Most of her attacks were early evening.  This past
    weekend she had two attacks which were both in the middle of the night. 
    The "colic holds" are different positions to hold the baby in to
    relieve some of the pain.  The position and the bouncing that you
    described are typical kinds of holds.  The one that was most successful
    for us was holding her on your hip, facing away from you with your
    forearm firmly planted in her mid-section.  This position worked
    miracles for us.  We also walked around bouncing her constantly!  I
    thought that all of the bouncing would make her sick but it never did! 
    Many times she would fall asleep in this position while being bounced.
    
    Our doctor also suggested giving warm water in the middle of an attack. 
    We were never able to use this one because Kaitlin would never take a
    bottle.  We have not tried it since she has been using a cup.  
    
    re: .4, There is no formula involved here.  Kaitlin was on breast milk
    until she was 6 months and then a combination of whole milk and breast
    milk.  
    
    She has also been tested for an allergy to milk and is not allergic.  

    You might also consider trying Prosobee or some other soybean formula
    (if you aren't nursing).  Many babies are very sensitive to cows milk
    and it can show up as colic.  If you are nursing, is there something
    you eat or drink regularly that you might consider stopping?
    
    My first son had bad colic (4pm to 10pm EVERY night), but I cannot
    remember exactly when it stopped.  I just remember realizing when he
    was around 9 months that life was beginning to seem normal again.  Not
    much helped, and we tried EVERYTHING.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    Laura

    re .6, For about one month, I recorded everything that I ate and drank
    in order to see if there was something that seemed to bother her.  It
    didn't seem to matter.  Oddly enough, about the time that we put her on
    cow's milk, the colic seemed to lessen.  I don't know if it was her age
    (6 months) or the cow's milk.  Our pedi doesn't seem to think it is the
    milk because she has gone 3+ weeks without an attack and then will have
    2 or 3 in a week.  He isn't too concerned about it.  
    
    Thanks for your suggestion!  
                       
    

    
    re: .7
    
    I also breastfed a colicky baby.   I cut *everything* out of my
    diet that was ever mentioned in any book or by anyone to have an
    adverse effect on nursing babies (brocolli, cucumbers, spices, dairy -
    milk, cheese, margarine, yogurt, you name it, chocolate, peanut
    butter, cabbage...well, you get the picture).   He was awful;
    screamed 8-10 hours a day! until he was weaned to a soy formula
    at 3 months.  I couldn't believe it, you always hear that breast 
    milk is the best .... not in Jason's case.   He has trouble with
    milk products to this day (primarily mucus in the throat, not
    bellyaches).
    
    My heart goes out to all of you with colicky kids!
    
    carol            

 .4 > I guess technically it wasn't really colic, . . .
 
 Unless medical thinking has changed sharply in the last 3 years, colic
 "technically" is a condition in which an infant is fussy and cries to the
 point of causing mental anguish to its parents.  Clearly fussiness varies
 between infants, but expectations and tolerance also vary among parents. 
 Both are involved in determining when "colic" is occuring.
 
 Many parents like to think the problem is digestive distress in the infant. 
 Some physicians agree.  Many physicians are willing to let parents think what
 makes them feel most comfortable, even if the problem has no clear cause. 
 Sometimes there are clear and remediable causes why a particular baby cries a
 lot, but they vary between babies.  For most babies, the "cause" (if there is
 a specific cause)  is never very clear. Almost all parents  who consider
 their babies to suffer "colic" are always trying new methods to "fix" it. 
 "Colic" lasts for unpredictable periods in different babies, but whenever it
 stops for a given infant, the parents have probably just tried something new. 
 Thus new "cures" are constantly being discovered.  Yet one baby's "cure"
 turns out to be another's irrelevancy.
 
 Do whatever works for you, and remember that this, too, shall pass.
 
 		- Bruce

    .9> Many parents like to think the problem is digestive distress in the
    .9> infant.
    
    You make it sound as if we're making this up.  With Neil, that is
    definitely the case.  At the worst times, he is doubled over with the
    pain (or he would be if he were standing).  He also tends to pass a lot
    of gas while it's happening -- enough so that it can be felt through
    his diaper.
    
    According to my dictionary (Webster's New World Dictionary) the
    definition is :
    
       colic (kal'ik) n. [origins omitted] acute abdominal pain cuased by
          various abnormal conditions in the bowels.
    
    Maybe some parents call a fussy baby colicky in order have some
    explanation for the fussiness, but Neil has the dictionary version!
    
                                                  Tracy

    OK, I HAVE to get in on this one.  My son, now 13 months old, had
    "colic".  It developed when he was 2 weeks old, just like the textbooks
    said.  Taking a fussy baby to your pedi WILL NOT result in a
    "diagnosis" of colic UNLESS it really is colic.  There is a definite
    difference between colic and a fussy baby.  My sister is a pediatric
    nurse.  One of her textbooks (in a Masters Degree course) says true
    colic is the result of fermentation in the bowel.  Things like Mylicon
    and a hot water bottle placed on the abdomen, as well as abdomenal
    massage will usually help the baby pass the gas and make him/her feel
    better, but are not cures since maturity of the bowel usually takes care
    of the problem.  How long does that take?  Who knows?  Every baby is
    different.  But there is nothing worse than hearing "It's just colic,
    he will outgrow it".  Well, it's not JUST COLIC.  The baby is in 
    pain, and you have to do something to make him feel better.  
    
    Sarah
    

    Sarah,
    
    I think that "just colic" is meant to imply that there is nothing 
    *seriously* wrong with the baby since as you say, the problem will 
    go away (usually, I suppose) with maturity of the digestive system.   
    I don't think "just colic" is intended to discount the pain that the
    problem causes both baby and family - at least that was my thinking.
    
    Carol
    

    Both conditions are rare, but there are babies who are allergic to
    soybeans or their mother's milk.  My brother's daughter was
    started on soybean formula because both her parents can't tolerate
    cow's milk, and she still vomited and cried constantly.  She  had
    to be hospitalized on an IV before they discovered the soybean
    allergy.  And several years ago a coworker's baby wound up
    hospitalized with jaundice before they discovered the baby was
    allergic to the antibodies in its mother's milk. 
    
    --bonnie

    Okay, if it's not 'colic', then what do you call a baby who cries about
    8-10 hours a day (and I mean screaming crying), wakes up screaming, and
    does this for about 9 mos?
    
    I will say one thing - while I would *NEVER* condone it, you can
    CERTAINLY understand why child abuse occurrs....
    (Just an observation, no need to yell at me)

    Patty,
    
    I, for one, can't tell you it isn't colic.  It certainly sounds like it
    from your description.  What I was trying to point out is that colic is
    a definite condition, and USUALLY is outgrown when the child's
    digestive condition matures.  WIth my son David, he still cannot drink 
    apple juice without eliciting the symptoms of his infant colic - drawing 
    his legs up from the abdominal and intestinal cramps, screaming
    unconsolably, unable to sleep, etc.  I'm sure I don't need to go on and
    describe the symptoms to you : )  When he was an infant, this was his
    general condition for the first 3 months of his life.  For those of you
    who have never had a child with colic,  you can't imagine what it's
    like.  Some children take longer to outgrow it, some children have a
    food allergy which elicits the same activity as colic, etc.  I have a
    real problem with colic being written off as just fussiness by people
    who have never actually had to deal with it, or lazy doctors who won't
    bother to examine the child to rule out a more life-threatening
    condition (like an obstruction).  I don't think anyone in this file
    would take that attitude, since everyone is very supportive and
    helpful.  If your child, at 9 months, still exhibits symptoms of colic,
    try eliminating some of the items that seem to cause allergic
    reactions.  Also, see your doctor and describe IN DETAIL the symptoms
    your child has.  
    Regarding your last comment...I was most afraid of dropping my son 
    from sheer fatigue.  He would only sleep on my shoulder (the warmth 
    from my body helped soothe the cramps) and would only sleep for a 
    maximum of 1 hour.  Then he'd scream for 4 hours, sleep for 1, etc.  
    The first night I was able to put him into his cradle and he slept for 
    3 straight hours...well, I thought he was dead! 
    
    Sarah
        

    re: .15
    
    Kat had bouts of inconsolable crying from about 2-5 months, but
    never displayed any signs of physical pain.  She was just
    miserable for one to three hours every evening. 
    
    --bonnie

    After months of medication which worked sometimes and not others.  Our
    pedi did do some allergy scratch testing.  Kaitlin is allergic to
    apples and peanuts.  We eliminated both from my diet and the apples
    from hers.  It helped a bit but she still had attacks.  At this point
    we know of no other food allergies.  Our pedi says she WILL outgrow it.
    
    Our pedi said that colic can be easily diagnosed.  On many occassions
    he would listen to her abdomen with his stethoscope.  I don't know what
    he heard but he always said that she was definitely colicky not just
    fussy.  Our daycare provider had said that she had two colicky children
    (never confirmed by her doctor but rather her mother-in-law)
    and not be be concerned that we were leaving out colicky baby with her. 
    She could handle it.  After the first attack that she witnessed, she
    said that her children were definitely just fussy not colicky.  She was
    amazed at the intensity of the screaming and the length of time that it
    lasted.  
    
    I agree with an earlier comment that was made about child abuse (which
    I do not approve of either).  There were days when I would be in tears
    and really questioning why I had ever wanted to have a baby.  Then when
    things were going well, I would have wicked guilt trips.  I now feel
    that it was all worth it, but there were days...
                                                                
    
    
    
    

No kidding about child abuse of infants!!!!  Between a parent's lack of sleep 
for endless days, and the loss of control (why can't I do something to help?!),
and guilt, and the mere fact that a baby was designed to have an incredibly
IRRITATING cry, it's a wonder FAR MORE parents don't abuse/kill their babies!!!
I couldn't *believe* the feelings that I had when he would just cry and cry
and cry, and there was *nothing* I could do to stop him!

Thank God this incessant crying goes away!  Remember folks, if you've got
the "it's 2AM and I haven't gotten any sleep for weeks and the baby's crying
again, let's throw the baby out the window" blues, you *can* leave the baby
in the safety of the crib while *you* take a break.  It's okay to do, and if
you are getting really angry at the baby, I suggest that you do take that 
break.  It will help you both.

     Hugs and sympathies from a parent who's been there,

       Carol

My 9 week old daughter was diagnosed as colicky, too.  However, she doesn't fit
the classic evening symptoms; her attacks come mostly in the morning and only 
last 1/2 hour at the worst and end with a lot of gas-passing and a very messy 
diaper.  They don't even happen every day. (Thank God).  Our pediatrician said 
that colic is often used as a catch-all term to describe gastro-intestinal 
upsets in infants.  It at least gives us a limit to the problem (I find a 
problem that can be named seems more manageable).  BTW, my husband completely 
disagrees that she is having GI pain; however, he does all the colicky-baby 
techniques when she is what he calls "just fussy" or "bored".

This started (we think) when she was about 3-4 weeks.  Since she had an ear
infection at 4 weeks, we aren't sure whether it was "colic" or the ear pain or
a stomach upset from the antibiotics that was causing the crying.

She's been on Mylicon drops for about 3 weeks now, and it *does* help.  I also
switched her to low-iron formula last week (I'm probably the last person in the
world to find out iron can cause stomach upsets in human of all ages).  I also
eliminated almost everything edible from my diet; certainly I've eliminated
everything I like to eat :-).  (I do a combination of
breast/formula feeding, due to daycare).  As I keep trying new things,
the attacks lessen.  Either she's outgrowing it a little at a time, or 
everything I try is helping a little.  Who cares which it is, just so she 
feels better.

I will never give up trying anything I hear about; I refuse to accept 
"just colicky" for a baby in pain.  My pediatrician agrees
completely with this attitude. She says that maybe something 
will work and I will feel better that I'm trying to help her. She has also
been extremely supportive of me, that this is not my fault and that I *am* a
good mother. (This is my first child and so am a bit anxious about whether
I am doing something wrong). She says that at the worse Elise will outgrow 
the problem without me finding a cure.  I would have liked more colloquial 
information from her, however.  She tended to focus on what has been proven, 
not word-of-mouth information that also seems to work.

Anyway, thanks to you all.  It helps to talk about it and know that others
understand.

    In case it hasn't been mentioned, I just remembered that Jason was
    switched to a soybean formula, which seemed easier on him (and you
    thought regular formula smelled bad!!).  It's worth a shot
    
    

    Our first was classic colic ... and now our niece is following the
    same course ... boy I'm glad it's over for us ... and that was 9
    years ago!!!!!
    
    One problem we had, considering our colicky one was our first, and
    my wife  was modified "demand" feeding (she imposed some schedule ... but
    was very flexible), was that one of the biggest mistakes with colic
    is so easy to make.  Over-feeding.
    
    It took a little while for us to learn that baby cannot tell the
    difference between "my tummy hurts" and "my tummy tells me I'm hungry".
    So, here we were, having not not long fed the baby, feeding her again
    because there was no question it was what she (baby) wanted.  Which
    made teh colic worse, which made her seem more hungry and demand more!
    
    It took a long time to realize what was happening here!  When you're
    exhausted from lack of sleep and climbing the walls snapping at anyone
    your brain isn't too good at seeing what might otherwise seem obvious!
    
    Stuart

The vast majority of colicky babies -- the numbers I've seen range 
from 80% to 90% -- are firstborn babies.

--bonnie

    RE: .21
    
    We also made the mistake of feeding her when she cried.  It seemed that
    nothing else would work.  She would nurse eagerly and then when she
    finished, she would continue the screaming.  When she woke at night
    (after having slept through the night for about 1 month), we
    assumed hunger, and I nursed her.  I believe that because I fed
    her during the night (I now know it was colic not hunger) that we were
    the cause of her not sleeping through the night!  We had conditioned
    her to "be hungry" in the middle of the night.
    
    BTW, this is our first child.  Let's hope the statistics in .22 are
    correct.
    

One of my coworkers just said something interesting.  My daughter's colic
seemed to start when she had an ear infection at about 1 month.  She was
on Amoxil for 10 days (that pink antibiotic liquid).  She's almost three months
now and had almost completely outgrown the colic (thank you, thank you, thank 
you, thank you) when she and I got a cold last week and so she's on Amoxil 
again.  She's now exhibiting the same colic symptoms and pattern as before.

I've heard Amoxil can cause GI upset and I think it could be causing the
current problem.  My coworker mentioned giving her some yogurt when the drug
is finished to repopulate her stomach and intestines with the "good" flora.  

His comment started me thinking - could some colicky babies actually be having
problems with intestinal flora inbalance?  If they have a lot of ear infections,
they take repeated doses of antibiotics that could keep killing off
the "good" flora.  Then it may take some time to reestablish a balance again.
Perhaps some babies who never took any drug have trouble colonizing their 
intestines in the first place.  But how would that relate to the "statistic of
no importance" that ~80% of colicky babies are first-born?

I don't know if I will give her yogurt; I'll certainly call the pediatrician 
first. (Yogurt is a milk product, so I hesitate to use it.  Regular formula 
is also milk-based, isn't it?)


What do you all think?

    My son has been eating yogurt since he was about 3 months old (right
    after colic subsided).  He was still sensitive to milk and milk-based
    products (puddings, etc), but tolerated the yogurt without a problem.
    Part of his initial bout of colic was the lactose intollerance, so
    switching him to soy-based formula "helped", but did not "cure" his
    colic.  Many infants are sensitive to milk-based formula, which is why
    one of the first things pediatricians suggest for colic is to switch to
    soy.  Antibiotics will upset the yeast/beneficial bacteria balance, and
    sometimes yogurt will help.  It certainly won't hurt!
    

    The latest Science News has an article about colic: it seems that
    there is some evidence that the cause of many cases of colic is
    cows' milk drunk _by_the_mother_.
    
    A protein (IgA) in cow's milk winds up in a nursing mother's milk
    (or in cow's milk-based formula).  Many infants can't tolerate this
    protein.
    
    The author suggests that nursing mothers with colicky babies try
    removing cow's milk from their own diets for a few days, using some
    other source of dietary calcium, to see whether their child's
    problem comes from this source.
    
    			-John Bishop

Well, I think we can start building some meaningless statistic to help
shoot this in the foot.

My wife seriously dislikes milk ...  she has a tiny amount in tea and
coffe, but otherwise forget it.  So, unless most of the offending protein
consumed makes its way to the breast milk then I have a hard time
swallowing this one, especially considering how colicky our first was!

Stuart

    
    I believe that it is suggested that all dairy products originating
    from cow's milk be removed from the mother's diet.  This includes
    butter, cheeses, etc; not just milk.   I know of a couple of people
    who swear by this as way to reduce fussiness in *some babies*.
    
    Carol

Eliminating *all* dairy products did not work for my daughter and me.  I also
eliminated all tomato products, all spices, caffeine, all onion/broccoli/cabbage
family vegetables.  Also eliminated beef and pork as it has an effect on me
and thought that perhaps she inherited that.  Ditto peanut butter, and green 
peppers.  I did this for the entire 6 weeks she was colicky and it had no 
effect.



P.S.  I lived on broiled chicken, raw carrots, raw mushrooms, water and 
pre-natal vitamins.  I lost most of the weight I gained from pregnancy.

    When I was nursing my daughter, I cut out all kinds of food and dairy
    products.  I had one of the most bland and boring diets.  I could eat
    the same thing two days in a row - sometimes she had colic and
    sometimes she didn't.  There seemed to be no clear reason for her
    getting it.  The colic gradually decreased when she was about 6 months
    old - about 3 times a week.  At 9 months, she could go a couple of
    weeks or longer without an attack.  The last period of time without
    colic was about 5-1/2 weeks.  Since last thursday she has had it
    everyday night (she is 11 months old).
    
    We just recently started seeing a new pediatrician who said that many
    children still have colic up to one year of age.  Not the most normal
    situation but certainly not alarming.  She also said that teething and
    all of the mucous and drool sometimes aggravate the digestive system
    (as you may have seen with severe diaper rash etc while teething).
    
    Kaitline cut a molar this weekend and has a couple more that look like
    they are on the way.  I am hoping that this is what is causing the
    colic and that as soon as these teeth are thru, the colic will be over!  

    RE:  .30
    
    The doctor also said that any mucous could aggravate the digestive
    system.  So, the mucous associated with a cold could also aggravate 
    the digestive system.

FWIW, and I generally don't make recomendations for things I have not
tried, but one of the guys I work near said his daughter, who was delivered
via forceps, had chiropractic treatment and this "cured" her colic.
I have heard that from others as well.  My own daughter outgrew it
at about 3 months.

Liz

    your daughter has probably out grown her colic by now but this might be
    of help to someone else in the future. My daughter was also very
    colicie and hyperactive. Then suddenly when she was almost 10 months
    old she became an entirely different child. It was like a miracle to
    me as I had a son who was only 15 months older then her. Anyway, what I
    did was fill up the tub with lukewarm water and sit in it with her
    until she was ok. I did this even in the middle of the night sometimes. 
    
    hope this helps someone 

    While this is late to reply to this note, I hope someone in the future
    can benefit from this...
    
    My child had colic and it was HORRIBLE.  He'd scream ALL night from
    around three in the afternoon until morning. e never slept well at all
    from the time he was 8 days old.
    
    We received a godsend from the Doctor's office...Sleeptite by Ross
    Labs (the manufacturers of Similac and Isomil).  It is a device that is
    installed on the crib to similate the ride in a car.  The mattress
    actually vibrates and there is a separate noise that is the sound of
    the "wind" at 55 mph.
    
    While this sounds far fetched, it worked!  You turn it on, put your
    child down and he falls asleep within 15 minutes.  You must turn it
    off, however, and there is always the risk that he will wake up, but
    usually he slept for a while.
    
    I was really worried about him becoming too attached to it, because he
    couldn't even go down for naps without us "turning the bed on".  The
    Doctor told me not to worry and magically, at three months, he no
    longer needed it.
    
    I'm not saying it gets rid of the colic, because nothing does...it just
    helps the child fall asleep.   There is no way I could have survived
    this ordeal without it!
    
    Jen