Conference moira::parenting_v3

    How awful for you.
    
    Talk to EAP at your facility.  They should be able to put you in
    touch with a family counsellor to help you and the whole family
    deal with the issues, and with resources to help your son.
    
    I can think of several possible causes for behavior like this,
    ranging from discipline problems and Attention Deficit Disorder
    through schizophrenia and brain tumors.  Before you can find the
    right kind of help for him, you have to find out what's causing
    his particular problem.   My guess is that you should start by
    requesting an  evaluation through the school system to try to get
    an accurate diagnosis.  Several notes have mentioned this process;
    it's guaranteed by law.  Your pediatrician could also offer
    confidential advice.
    
    Best wishes to you with this difficult problem.
    
    --bonnie

    This may be totally unrelated, but it may also be worth a try.
    
    A good friend of mine became concerned when her son's teachers began
    expressing concern about his behavior.  After a string of
    consultations and psychological consultations they concluded that he
    was suffering with some brain damage, probably caused during his
    forecepts birth.
    
    She did not accept their assessment and went searching for ANYTHING
    that might help.  She found a doctor who, after asking lots of
    questions, proceeded to put him on a restricted diet which eliminated
    all typically allergenic foods.  After being on the diet one week
    his disposition changed immeasurably.  A child who had been plagued
    with nightmares was suddenly the hero in his dreams.  His ability to
    read, write, and 'rithmatic also improved dramatically.  
    
    I told my sister about my friend, and she and her daughter went to see
    him.  Both of them went on the diet.  They both learned that they too
    have allergic reactions to certain food types - not the kind of
    reactions that make you ill, but the type that make you achey, anxious,
    etc...  Since they've adjusted their eating habits both feel better
    although neither were "sick" before.  The most remarkable thing has
    been the change in her daughters behavior.  When she is on her diet
    she's great - lots of fun, thoughtful, patient (for a 5 year old), but
    when she eats something NOT on her diet she goes off the wall.  She
    screams, is irritable, and to some extent violent.  It's hard keeping
    her to the diet, but its almost harder not to.
    
    Anyway, I share this with you not only to suggest that your son's
    behavior may be influenced by diet, but also to suggest that it could
    be influenced by alot of things that a doctor may/may not know.  If you
    want the name of the doctor my sister and friend saw let me know.  He
    may also be able to refer you to other doctor's closer to your area.
    
    Best of luck

    re: -1, can you give me more information about the diet, or send me the
    name of the doctor?
    
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    The doctor I mentioned in my previous note uses a book titled "Food
    Allergies" by Orenstein and Bingham.  I haven't seen the book, but I
    suspect that it does describe how to practice the diet, and I know it
    includes recipies.
    
    Basically, the diet requires that you eliminate all highly allergenic
    foods for a "cleansing" period - about a week.  These foods include
    corn and corn products, wheat and wheat products, citrus, yeast, dairy,
    sugar, eggs, and maybe a few more.  This requires diligent reading of
    labels to search out ingredients.  After the cleansing period, each
    food group is introduced one at a time in large doses for 2 - 3 days to
    encourage any allergic reactions to manifest themselves.  As I said
    in my earlier note, the reaction may be other than physical and may be
    minor or major.  My neice had a very strong reaction to the reaction of
    citrus in her diet - really off the wall mood swings!  If you have no
    reaction (ie you feel as good as you did before the food was
    reintroduced) you can continue eating that food.  Each food group is
    added similarly.
    
    It was a little tricky "diagnosing" my niece's allergic reactions.  In
    some cases my sister wasn't sure if her increased congestion (a
    possible allergic reaction) was caused by the food or was in fact a
    cold.  Consequently, she spent some additional time reintroducing
    foods.  The doctor was also able to provide some advice.  Ultimately,
    after identifying her food allergies she saw the doctor who did, in
    fact, confirm her findings through some tests.  The problem with
    relying on the tests alone is that they are often unreliable.  Anyway,
    he planned to give my niece concentrations of the allergenic foods to
    increase her tolerance, however, her reactions are so strong that she
    has not been able to take the drops he prescribed.
    
    It has been tough on my niece.  Imagine being 5 years old and told that
    you can't have birthday cake and ice cream, etc, etc.  It has also been
    more work for my sister.  She now does most of her shopping at Bread
    and Circus where she can get things like rye flour instead of wheat
    flour, and her menus have changed drastically.  I can't stop by with
    Pizza anymore and McD's is just a fond memory.  She and her daughter do
    go off their diets occasionally, sometimes there are no choices.  When
    they do they know what kind of reactions to expect, and when they occur
    they know why.  Just that knowledge is reassuring.
    
    As you can tell by my rambling on, I really believe in the impact this
    has made on them.  I hope that this may also help your son.  
    
    Good luck

    I agree that a medical evaluation is a must.  The following info is not
    intended to replace that step.
    
    There are  a lot of artificial ingredients in our diets today.  Many can
    cause allergies leading to behavioral problems.  Also, some kids are
    very sensitive to some forms or amounts of sugar.  For example:
    
    - My niece has an allergy to artificial flavors, colors, and
    preservatives.  At about 5 years old she would have anxiety attacks. 
    Eliminating these things cleared it up.  She's now 16 and fine, still
    doesn't eat these things.
    
    - My friends' son (6) can't have orange juice.  It makes him hyper. 
    Neither he nor his sister can have corn syrup (a common sweetener, not
    considered artificial) because they get hyper.
    
    A further thought on evaluations, if the medical path doesn't turn up
    anything, you might try getting an educational evaluation (if you
    haven't already done this).  He might have a learning disability such
    as dyslexia, causing him extreme frustration.  If you want an opinion
    outside the school's, you can call Mrs. Esther Ross in Nashua, NH who
    does this professionally, along with tutoring.
    
    Good luck in a difficult and painful situation.
    
    Laura                                         

    Thanks for all the good advice, I will look into food allergies.  I
    can't help think that my son has inherited my problem.  I suffer from
    severe depression, so much that I spent some time in the hospital.
    I am taking an experimental medication (the traditional medications for
    depression did not help) and my depression is somewhat under control.
    I can look back and see signs of my depression in my childhood.
    I will ask the doctor about that also.
    
    Paul

    Bless you, Paul. And best of luck.
    
    Kate

    Here's my gut feeling, first I'd get an appointment with the
    pediatrician,POST HASTE!! to rule out there's nothing physcically going
    one, and push for blood work (thyroid comes to mind) and maybe an MRI,
    or CAT scan, and complete neuro workup to rule out tumor, clot, or
    anyurism (a bulge in an artery in the brain)  I also wonder that at his
    age (10, right?) he may be starting into puberty and some hormonal
    thing could be kicking the mood swings in.
    
    Then after all that has been ruled out, look into a GOOD Pedi
    psyciatric service.  Not sure where you are, but two of the best in the
    state are in Worcester and Boston. (Umass Medical and Boston Children's)
    
    The other thing we learned the hard way was AJ is allergic to
    Nutra-Sweet (Equal Sweetner and diet sodas) and for three days we and
    his preschool went through fits of temper, no naps, insomnia and even a
    bout with biting.  It was from one packet a day in his cherios, we
    stopped it and he was back to normal in 24 hours.  A friend of ours
    said she had the same problem with her son, and also forbids
    nutrasweet.
    
    Keep us posted!
    Lyn

    I know I should put this in the Learning Disabilities Notes file but
    This file is more active.
    
    I have a good friend who has a child who is "monsterlike". At almost
    6 he still writes on walls, climbs refrigerators(don't ask me how).
    He is abusive to his younger sibling. He destroys toys and throws
    things. His concentration span is about 2 seconds. He forgets rules
    or shall I say he is overwhelmed by his impulses very often.
    
    As the years go on, his destructiveness has gotten worse. 
    
    My question is can hyperactive children get worse without treatment?
    Has anyone gone through anything similar?
    
    Thanks,
    Kate
    

    Please also see these related notes:
    
    118
    502
    1171
    

    One of my children went through similar behavior at around the same
    age, even to the point of threagtening his mother with a kitchen knife
    on many occassions. We ended up meeting with a good psychologist (and I
    haven't met many that I respected). Bottom line, we ended up handling
    him differently, no shades of grey. We had to be very specific as to
    what he could or could not do. When he overstepped those bounds, he was
    seated on a chair and at times physically (but calmly and lovingly)
    made to sit there until he modified his behavior. Within six months, he
    changed his behavior and ended up being the easiest of our four
    children to raise. Mark is 32 years old know and a truly caring and
    gentle human being.
    
    Recognize that this is an individual case, and the mix of circumstances
    and genetics and environment and physical make up are different.
    However, this was our experience.
    
    Last week, I was asked to put together a recommendation (using only
    natural alternatives) for a hyperactive 7 year old. (I consult on the
    side). My recommendation included modifying the diet to
    reduce/eliminate sugar products, food additives, artificial
    flavorings/colorings. 
    
    I DO NOT PRESCRIBE OR CLAIM ANY MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    However, there are many doctors that prescribe to this theory. Some of
    the Naturopaths and herbalists also remove milk from the diet. (the
    calcium and other minerals needs to be replaced from other food sources
    or supplemented). There is also some train of thought that relates this
    behavior to Allergies. You may want to look into allergy testing.
    
    There are also several herbal combinations (can be taken in capsule
    form for ease of use) that are recommended by many herbalists. This was
    part of the nutritional recommendation that was given.
    
    Meanwhile, hang in there with the knowledge that this energy can be
    channeled to create an innovate creative adult.
    	regards==========SANFORD============
    
    

    re.9
    Why is hyperactivity relative to violenence or meanness?

re: .12

>    Why is hyperactivity relative to violenence or meanness?

Hyperactivity is (often? sometimes?) related to a difficulty in controlling 
impulses.  If a person is unable to control the impulse to get up from their 
chair and run around the room, they may also unable to control the impulse to 
hit their little brother.

Hyperactive people are not all mean.  Mean people are not all hyperactive.  
But there are many who are both.

Clay

    Reading this topic reminded me of something I saw on tv about a year
    ago.  They had a kid in a room, sitting with his mother, coloring away
    nice and quite.  They gave him a little milk and WAMMO!!  This kid was
    a terror!  He was hitting, kicking, biting, his mother and the nurses. 
    They then gave him a drop of something that counteracts the effects of
    the milk and WAMMO again!  It was like flicking a switch.  The kid was
    all calmed down and friendly again.  They showed a few other kids with
    the same reaction.  The specialist said that there are many kids having
    all kinds of trouble because of food allergies that are being
    miss-diagnosed and the allergy isn't being treated.
    
    Chris D.

    Excuse me....BUT.... Why is everyone so quick to blame bad behavior on
    Sugar?  I have a son who is "mildly" hyperactive, and his reaction is
    not to Sugar as such, but more to chocolate, and even worse NUTRASWEET!
    Last year my husband was sweetning his cherios with Equal because he
    knew I "preferred" to limit his sugar intake. The teachers said his
    behavior was a total 180 degree turn, he was violent, he picked fights,
    he even attempted to bite.  I discovered the equal wrapper about the
    second night by accident. (another parent of a mildly hyperactive boy
    had related a similar horror story, I had Poo-pood the idea until...)
    and asked hubby if he had put Equal on the cereal, he said he had and
    we agreed to stop doing it immediately. Well within 24 hours we had our
    old boy back again.  We now forbid him nutra sweet foods, drinks etc. 
    Chocolate is a problem, so we have a rule of no chocolate after 3pm.
    Last Sunday I allowed a half of a kitkat bar after supper, given him by a 
    friend's father, this kid had had no nap and was still "spinning his wheels"
    after 9 p.m.
    
    BUT... this behavior does sound like it needs a "professional"
    evaluation.  Something we did learn, after recently going through a
    9-week ADHD parent training class was nice gentle time out method for
    an out of control child.  Sit the child in a chair in the usual "time
    out corner", allow him/her 5 minutes to settle down, then (from behind
    the child and chair cross your arms and hands so that the child's hands
    end up in his lap.  Hold this position just long enough to settle the
    child down.  Our psycologist called this a "love hug".  The closeness
    seems to have a calming effect. (He did warn us to keep your face away
    from the back of the child's head, in case the child in a fit of
    temper, threw his head backwards.)
    
    Oh yes, something we found works wonderfully is Praise, praise, praise!
    (you catch more flies with honey than vinegar theory)
    
    Lyn

    I will rephrase my question:
    
    		If untreated, could this violence or lack of impulse 
                control get worse? or is it something that a child
    	        will grow out of in time?
    
    I ask this because the mother of this child is reluctant to do any-
    thing. She harbors lots of guilt feelings. I thought If I could somehow
    get her to realize he is regressing instead of progressing maybe she
    would consent to an evaluation.
    
    Thanks,
    Kate		
    

    Kate, an answer to your question is YES.  Most emotional problems left
    untreated can and will get worse.  Studies show that early
    (professional) intervention will identify and map out a course of
    treatment.  The best method of treatment should involve the whole family 
    not just the child.
    
    Lyn

    re: .11
    
    This is a "how to" question.  There have been times when I have been
    obliged to physically keep one of my children in their timeout
    position.  Whether that is in a chair, in the corner, or just in the
    other room.  I have felt anything but calm and loving at those times. 
    So, please, tell me, how do you keep a 3 year old in their chair?  

Debby, I know you are looking for a response from a specific person, so
I will leave the note here.  However, there are replies to note 423.0
that might help you, too.  You might want to take a look at them.  

If anyone else wants to respond to the question in general, and not specifically
related to violent children, please respond in 423.*.

Thanks,

    Carol duBois, PARENTING co-mod

I'll keep this brief, please go back and read my reply .15.  I have suggested
the way (our ADHD psycologist) suggested we try to physically restrain a child
in a time out chair.

Contact me off-line if you want/need to chat.

Lyn
244-6677
AKOCOA::TRIPP

    re:.20
    
    Thank you for the pointer.  I had skipped the end of that note since
    the beginning had seemed to deal solely with food reactions.
    
    re:.19
    
    I have asked nearly that exact question before in this file; evidently
    not in 423.* since I just did a dir/auth there.  I have read 423, but
    was looking for greater, or different, detail.